Putin in interview with Russia 1 Channel : "Strikes with high-precision Western weapons on Russian territory will mean that NATO is directly participating in the war "
Posted by BringbackDreamBars@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 292 comments
Superman246o1@reddit
No, it doesn't.
If NATO was directly participating in the war, it would be obvious because NATO forces would be in Moscow within the week (presuming conventional war) and/or 99% of us would all be dead (presuming nuclear escalation).
EscapeGoat6@reddit
That is also presuming that Russia still has a fully operational nuclear arsenal. It is entirely plausible that their weapons are in a state of disrepair. Look at the quality of equipment they've used in Ukraine. Obsolete tanks, rusty rifles, no boots, and textile gear made for airsoft/paintball.
ChirrBirry@reddit
I’ve commented about this pretty extensively in the past two years.
The US spends $44billion just maintaining our arsenal whereas Russia spends $8billion…there’s no way a country with 10% more warheads spends that much less for equal result.
The START treaty only allowed each nation to count each other’s arsenal, it did not allow them to test them all for functional status. Some types of warheads have a half-life of 5-10 years, this would apply to warheads that the Russians have been sitting on for decades. Whenever a country tests a nuclear launch, they are only testing the rocket delivery vehicle which Russia is more proficient at maintaining.
IMO, there is a greater than zero percent chance that Russia only has about as many functional nukes as Israel. There is a possible scenario where Russia launches bunk warheads and catches apocalypse in return. If anyone should be trying to avoid a nuclear war it should be Russians.
Competitive_Post8@reddit
so by your logic, russian nuclear power plants would not work either.. except everyone in the world buys them from them. oh and maybe their icebreaker ships dont work either? well they have some that work and we have none. the question why would russia want to launch nukes over.. ukraine of all places. it was a separate country for 30 years. so why cant they live another 30 years with ukraine being separate? see it is all blackmail.
ChirrBirry@reddit
You are misrepresenting my point. Nuclear reactors and nuclear weapons are very different concept. Remind me again home many nuclear powered aircraft carriers Russia has?
C130J_Darkstar@reddit
That’s a good point on sea vessels, I hadn’t thought about that opportunity for OKLO…
Feel free to join the r/OKLOSTOCK sub, it’s the most active
ChirrBirry@reddit
I’m already in the club 🍻😎 I’ve been bullish on Oklo for so long that at one point I called their corporate line and asked what investment avenues were available and at the time the team member I was speaking to said “we’re working on that”. I bought warrants as soon as they were available and am now a shareholder. It’s gonna take a while to pay off but I was instantly stricken by their marketing which showed neighborhoods built around a safe MNR housed in a community pool house type building.
C130J_Darkstar@reddit
ha! I wouldn’t have thought to call them directly, that’s awesome. I’m sitting on a little over 5K shares… it’s hard to imagine that there’s a better long-term bet for 100x+ returns over the next couple of decades. Let’s hope for early retirement 😊
Euphoric-Guess-1277@reddit
They have none, because relative to their cost a nuclear carrier wouldn’t have sufficient strategic value for Russia.
They have multiple nuclear icebreakers though, including two with dual reactors.
ChirrBirry@reddit
Ok, so now we agree that both countries operate nuclear reactors for both power grid and mobility, but that still does not translate to nuclear weapons. That would be like comparing a blow torch to a hand grenade. My point was that the data on maintenance suggests Russia is sitting on a stockpile that is well past its service life and there is very little data to suggest they have done anything to remedy that.
kormer@reddit
Counterpoint: If only 10% of Russia's warheads are operational, that's still more than enough to be an intolerable loss.
ChirrBirry@reddit
Sure, but the response is an 80% plus functional arsenal and that 10% would be fired at the only country that actually strives to shoot down incoming nukes. Russia is counting on the wests fear of 600 nukes to use that chip as a means to cause insane human suffering. If Russia feared US nukes as much as we fear theirs, they never would have invaded anyone in this century.
kormer@reddit
This one still pisses me off. Obama abandoned our missile defense project just as it was picking up steam. Yes, we still have a limited ability to shoot down a few dozen at most, but it could have been so much more.
After the 2014 Ukrainian invasion, I would have looked at the strategic picture and decided the only reason we weren't backing them up militarily, was the nukes issue. I'd have then tasked the military with figuring out technical hurdles to make winning a nuclear war within the realm of possibility.
I don't want to rant forever on the topic, but so much about this war would be different today if we'd have invested in the tech/infrastructure a decade ago went it was obvious where things were headed.
dwarven11@reddit
The problem is the subs. You can get the tac nukes loaded onto planes, or maybe even the icbms with enough interceptors, but the likelihood of getting the subs in time is extremely low.
ChirrBirry@reddit
SM-3 and Aegis have had some success in the last few years. We have become accustomed to limited missile engagements, but in an “oh shit here it comes” type situation a squadron of DDG can shit out a lot of ordnance. Assuming 270 missiles per 3 ship squadron, a fire until empty pattern for more than one squadron would cover most of a major attack. There’s a pile of assumptions there, but it’s worth mentioning that there is a touch more capability than many people assume (not saying you haven’t already considered this).
kormer@reddit
I was under the assumption that the DDG's anti-missile capabilities were theater-based weapons only, not ICBM capable. Genuinely curious if I was mistaken about that, not accusing you of anything.
ChirrBirry@reddit
The RIM-161 Standard Missile 3 (SM-3) is a ship-based surface-to-air missile used by the United States Navy to intercept short- and intermediate-range ballistic missiles as a part of Aegis Ballistic Missile Defense System.[5] Although primarily designed as an anti-ballistic missile, the SM-3 has also been employed in an anti-satellite capacity against a satellite at the lower end of low Earth orbit.[6] The SM-3 is primarily used and tested by the United States Navy and also operated by the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force. (wiki)
The SM-3 IIA missile intercepted an advanced ballistic missile threat in its first live target test in early 2017. The flawless intercept was preceded by two successful non-target flight tests. The system participated in an international, NATO-led exercise in 2019 that simulated real-life threat scenarios. Strong cooperation between allied nations and industry helps ensure readiness to defeat complex threats around the world.
The Block IIA variant is the centerpiece of the European missile defense system. It will be deployed ashore in Poland to complete Phase 3 of the European Phased Adaptive Approach. (Raytheon)
The wiki info says the missile has a flight ceiling of 1,000km but for high probability intercept it does have to be launched within a certain radius of the ICBM launch site. That said, it appears to be more capable than most people assume.
kormer@reddit
That's pretty awesome. We should build a few more and then some.
ChirrBirry@reddit
From what I understand it fits in a standard DDG missile cell, of which each ship has 90+ cells. In a tense situation you can park a few squadrons of DDG and ammo tenders off each coast and have pretty good coverage. SM-3 is also ground based so if they aren’t already emplaced around the middle of the country for inland protection I’d be surprised.
Philosophically however, there is a question to ask about what happens when a nuclear armed country also has proven ICBM protection on the level of Iron Dome for rockets. Such a disparity has got to really mess with nuclear armed countries that don’t have such a coverage. IMO, this is why Russia and China are being pretty belligerent right now…it might be the last time they are able to do so until they catch up.
PursuitOfLegendary@reddit
Your forget french tests on muraroa atoll (forgive my spelling) - less than 40 years ago and maybe even open air test
ChirrBirry@reddit
I looked it up, 1996 was the treaty against nuke testing and France was testing right up to that. So almost 30 years if you discount DPRK.
PursuitOfLegendary@reddit
Sounds about right, time flies huh
YouSuckItNow12@reddit
Not to mention Russian nukes cost quite a bit more in time and money to maintain. They use liquid, not solid propellant and it is much more intense of an upkeep process.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
It would be surprising if they had more than a potempkin amount of anything effective... and their unstoppable hypersonic missiles have already been shot down by our 40 year old tech... and then they threw the scientists in prison.
There's a reason they're going to Iran and North Korea... their shit is shit AND expensive and they're better off with mass shit that doesn't try to be good...
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
It worked well for nepoleon and hitler too
Superman246o1@reddit
Did Napoleon and Hitler have spy satellites, M1A2 Abrams tanks, and F-22s?
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
And Russia doesn't have those things now either, right? So it should be really easy right? Moscow within a week? Give me a break.
paxwax2018@reddit
Considering they’ve been at war for 3 years, and had massive losses, yes, NATO would go through them like shit through a goose.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
You wish
paxwax2018@reddit
NATO is already beating Russia like a drum with just the stuff that was going to be thrown away.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
Sure
paxwax2018@reddit
Awww
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
Nope
Superman246o1@reddit
My brother in Alexander, Russia may have spy satellites, but it definitely does not have Abrams, Raptors, or Lightnings. How many SU-57s does Russia have that are combat ready? Maybe 22 tops? While the U.S. has 187 operational F-22s, and NATO has 1,000+ F-35s. Even if the SU-57 is worthy of being called a fifth-generation fighter, I would feel very bad for their few pilots in such a matchup.
Furthermore, Russia has spent the past two years depleting its military against the valiant people of Ukraine. Ukraine. A country with roughly 1/10th of Russia's resources and roughly 1/4th of Russia's population! If Russia's military can't beat Ukraine's, how the Hell would Russia stand a chance against the combined might of NATO's 32-member state alliance, which includes the country with the most powerful military ever assembled in human history?
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
Just like USA beat Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan, all deemed inferior nations. But your point about Russia depleting its military against Ukraine is valid, that was a big part of the reason the west sacrificed hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians for. They are just pawns in a proxy war against Russia, not allies in the traditional sense.
CaptainEurostar@reddit
What about this or that. It’s not the same and you know it. The Ukrainian’s were hampered by Russian propaganda and Western complicity. That has now changed.
Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan were wars that were fought without a clear goal or reason. Ukrainian people have a reason to fight, all the western nations are coming around, and Russia has been proven to be nothing more than meat grinder for its people.
Proxy war or not, the Russian military is they inferior to Iraq, Vietnam and the Taliban.
MMW- Russia will capitulate within the next year after the American elections. One might argue that that timeline might be accelerated due to the fact that Biden doesn’t give a fuck anymore.
I might be wrong but I’m not gonna lose sleep over it.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
lol, ok
CaptainEurostar@reddit
I’m glad you agree with me.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
I don't :)
CaptainEurostar@reddit
I don’t believe you. Prove it
Superman246o1@reddit
I'm (genuinely; not sarcastic here) glad that you brought up Vietnam and Iraq, because the scenarios are comparable. In those wars, much like Russia's current actions in Ukraine, there was no moral legitimacy for the invading superpower to try to conquer the smaller country. (The U.S. did have a very strong casus belli for Afghanistan, but both Washington and Moscow are well acquainted with what a clusterfuck "the Graveyard of Empires" can be.) The same is true for Russia in Ukraine. And in these cases, the lack of morale and moral legitimacy is what ultimately leads to the defeat of the superpower in that war.
Russia, much like the United States, has a really strong track record of military victories in wars of necessity. And Russia, much like the United States, has a really spotty track record of military victories when it comes to wars of pointless aggression and sheer vanity. It would be great if Russia could come to a peace agreement with Ukraine today. Restore their respective borders to their pre-2014 boundaries and stop killing the next generations of Russians and Ukrainians.
It's going to have to happen eventually; it might as well happen now before any one else dies for a mistake.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
I agree for the most part
Superman246o1@reddit
Well, in that case, we're in agreement on the stuff that really matters: the preservation of life. I'm gonna get back to work. Have a good one!
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
Totally, you too!
Sitorix@reddit
Between those two there were: Napoleon 3rd , russia loses Crimes Japan, first defeat of an european empire WW1 germany kicks Russia's ass 1921 Poland defeats Russia
Also in ww2 it was the us that bailed thd ussr, now...there is no ussr anymore and all their former allies are enemies.
Son_of_Macedon@reddit
Fine, then try to take Moscow within a week if it's so easy and see what happens. Why continue to tolerate all of the loss of life?
WarMiserable5678@reddit
Based on what? It’s insanity, we hyped up Russia’s military like we hype up our own. The truth is before this conflict there hasn’t been a war on this scale to test these militaries since WW2. It’s all hype and projection. The reality is no one close.
Quigonjinn12@reddit
99% is dramatic. Its unlikely that the nukes Russia has are in commission and the ones that are likely exist in small numbers
mementosmoritn@reddit
Even then, I'm sure it would only be 70% by the end of the year. Maybe 80%.
Quigonjinn12@reddit
Agreed. Definitely less than a billion people. Honestly? 99% may not be too far off considering 1% of 8 billion is 80 million
Quigonjinn12@reddit
That I can agree with. We’d be left with like 100,000 humans
Departure_Sea@reddit
Then so is Iran and North Korea.
russia-is-wrlds-enmy@reddit
And China
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Yes we'll this was the problem from the beginning. This is all text book escalation from each side, this is precisely what the fear was from the beginning. Obviously I have to clarify my position after such a comment, so I'll officially say I'm firmly against Putins illegal invasion of Ukraine and the last thing I want to see is Ukraine swallowed by Russia.
However, this is exactly where we feared we'd end up.
wheredalaydeez@reddit
We didn’t choose it but we can’t back off. We swore we would protect Ukraine when they gave up their nuclear weapons capabilities. And Russia swore they would never attack Ukraine. But here we are. We can’t keep giving ground
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I'm not sure what the answer is here, but I hope this can end with Ukraine intact and no open full scale war. So yes, your comment is correct, but this is how it happens.
There are many ways this could spin out of control, but even the steady inexorable escalation we're seeing is troubling. It's really hard to say where Russia will take this and even harder to predict if and when the Russian citizenry might try to put an end to it. One thing we can be sure of, the harder Ukraine pushes back and the more we help them, the more Putin will throw his weight around. I'd like to think that the combined economic and industrial might of the West will just quietly squah Putin and Russia gives up, but there is a point in there that will be very dicey.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
The answer is obvious; fuck ‘em. If you show weakness now it will only encourage Russia and others to be more aggressive. Appeasement will only increase the chances of a war in the future.
Leader_2_light@reddit
And escalation guarantees that war right now.
The slippery slope argument is low IQ there's been no indication Russia would attack NATO territory that's a well-known red line.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
I hard disagree. If you show weakness to Russia you get escalation. The Russians understand only one language; action. They respect only one word; force.
TJ700@reddit
This is a direct quote from the film "13 Days."
Available_Sir5168@reddit
Finally someone picked up on it. You just earned some candy. Well done :)
Vegetable-Cherry-853@reddit
Ukraine isn't getting their land back without using NATO nukes, and that's a hard disagree from me
Shoddy-Sweet-4747@reddit
That is a clever little saying. I guess we should just steadily escalate that could end in nuclear catastrophe since it sounds so cool. When the time comes for the US to put troops on the ground I'm sure you will be happy to be the first one to march into the meat grinder. With such tough, simple analysis of highly complicated world events, you're the best person for the job.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
And your alternative is to roll over and appease Putin?
ZalutPats@reddit
That's not what a saying is. We should uphold the law, certainly. Ukrainian sovereignty is at stake, but you think each new step, each escalation is where Russian aggression will end? That's so, so cute. I'm glad to say pretty much every western military analyst disagrees.
You sound like a couch potato too busy licking cheetoh dust off your fingers to want to risk even others fighting for freedom. You're right, not everybody is as cowardly. That's the only reason the west even exists.
Keep enjoying it without earning it when it's at risk though. I'm sure you'll never have regrets when you go on to live forever.
ZalutPats@reddit
Assassinations on NATO soil beg to differ.
Pretending Putin has any respect for things other than military might is the only low IQ argument I'm seeing here. And I'm smart enough to know not to try and measure intellectual merit using it, imagine that level of IQ.
Leader_2_light@reddit
Are you stupid? NATO is a massive military might. They won't ever fuck this it and if they do we can all find out.
Assassinations have nothing to do with war. Every single major nation carries out assassinations.
UnnecessarilyFly@reddit
This exact discussion, but 80 years ago. It's just the Rhineland.
Leader_2_light@reddit
History isn't just the same shit repeating forever.
Russia doesn't even want most of Ukraine. No, Russia won't attack nato.
I think most people don't even know much about it and certain don't want to die over it.
End of discussion.
Responsible_Wafer_29@reddit
'Ukraine was attacked because they are not in nato'
Agreeing to giveup their nukes was probably a factor too right? Oh well fuckem amirite. Morons shouldn't have trusted us!
ZalutPats@reddit
They don't have nukes because Russia made promises to never attack them.
Attacking Ukraine is not acceptable on any level, NATO is not why the west is helping, it's because it cannot be allowed to stand since Putin will only grow emboldened.
Your strategy of appeasement would guarantee that it repeats, so you're right. This time will be different. It already is, thanks to the bravery of Ukraine.
Radioactiveglowup@reddit
It's wild how many appeasers are in this crowd, eh?
"WW2 wouldn't have happened if we just let funny moustache man do what he wanted just oooonnnneee more time"
Idiots, or plants. The difference is academic.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
They must not know about the Munich agreement.
DankesObama@reddit
So expect more Ukraine civilian infrastructure attacks. Got it
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I don't like it, not at all. I hate what Russia is doing to Ukraine.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
You know if Europe would just stop buying Russian gas and oil the war would have ended a year ago.
But no giving Ukraine just enough to keep fighting and not win that's the solution because Europeans can't be bothered paying the price of their choices.
Popular-Row4333@reddit
They just buy Indian oil and wipe their hands of it like we all don't know that Indian Oil exports have road 580,000% since the start of the embargo.
Vegetable-Cherry-853@reddit
That Indian oil comes from Lukoil!
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
It's insane some even still buy directly from Russia lol.
iluvios@reddit
And it’s going to come bite them in the ass
Vegetable-Cherry-853@reddit
Why do we even care about backwards, non democratic, Eastern European countries? They have zero strategic value to us. Besides, the ground has already been "given" and we aren't getting it back
wyocrz@reddit
That's what Russia said.
Let's be clear, the West hasn't been giving ground. Regardless if one thinks what happened in the Maidan was a coup or a revolution, the collective West moved right the fuck to Russia's border in 2014, then we blamed Russia for reacting.
To whatever degree I am defending Russia, I guess I'm a peacenik who is fine with peace through strength, as long as folks are rational about things.
Myrtle_Nut@reddit
The people of Ukraine can do whatever they want he’ll they choose within their border. So they pushed out a dictator favorable to Putin? Seems to me you’re victim blaming and giving Putin excuses. Pathetic.
wyocrz@reddit
Has it ever occurred to you that you are spreading propaganda?
Every single thing you are saying could have been written by the CIA, and you're just rolling along with it.
Myrtle_Nut@reddit
Unlike Putin’s propaganda that Maidan was puppeteered by the west? Get the f out with that bullshit. That’s a slap in the face to the Ukrainians that fucking bled to rid themselves of a self-serving autocrat being coached by none other than Paul Manafort (the dictator whisperer). Of course the west wanted Ukraine to have democracy and supported the will of their people. To put forth the idea that is was anyone but the Ukrainians that freed themselves from abject corruption is spitting in their face and their legacy. I’m proud of Ukrainians. They are people who have been through some shit, so yeah it pisses me off to see Putin’s propaganda so casually stated.
wyocrz@reddit
I literally stipulated that it doesn't matter if it was a revolution or a coup: the New York Times had a whole piece on how the US rebuilt Ukraine's intelligence services, to include listening posts along the Russian border.
At this point anti-war rhetoric, or anything like pro-Russian words, are lumped in with the Orange Shitstain I've voted against thrice.
Great powers have great interests, and there are ramifications to interference.
Myrtle_Nut@reddit
Why even posit the question whether it’s a coup. That would be like me saying “whether the planet is warming or climate change is fake.” By simply making that statement, you’re supposing it’s an argument worth having.
I just have zero patience for anyone who carries Putin’s water. It doesn’t matter what happens behind Ukrainian’s borders. If they welcome US intelligence to operate within their borders, that’s their right to do so. None of that gives Putin the right to seize their land, steal their children, and slaughter their people. Full stop.
wyocrz@reddit
It's not about rights.
It's geopolitics.
Myrtle_Nut@reddit
That’s a very Putinesque stance to take. I’m done with this convo.✌️
wyocrz@reddit
So you insult me then dismiss me.
Got it.
Can't answer me substantively, so go to what works, right?
ZalutPats@reddit
You're literally justifying fascism by going "geopolitics" then get surprised when you're dismissed, lol. Hopefully you're young and will grow up to understand how fucking silly that is, but if you're over 30 it's clearly a lost cause.
chadltc@reddit
Amen
DangerPoopaloops@reddit
Nothing physically moved to Russia's border. Those people have been there all along. The only thing that's changed is how they feel towards Russia. Ukraine is a prime example of what happens to countries next to Russia that aren't in NATO. Russia only has itself to blame.
wyocrz@reddit
So, if there is a coup/revolution in Mexico and the FSB sets up the new Mexican intelligence services, we should just chill?
frizzlefry99@reddit
You nailed it, even though nobody here appreciates it
ourtomato@reddit
FFS we would have a wide variety of options for responding to that situation besides “just chilling” and rolling tanks/raping Mexicans/stealing their children/flattening cities.
wyocrz@reddit
And if those options were exhausted, we would invade.
Have you happened to notice how riled up folks are about the "invasion" from the southern border?
Consent isn't manufactured overnight, but don't sleep on medium term problems on that front after the strategic defeat of the United States in Eastern Europe sinks in with the world's decision makers.
thrublue22@reddit
Dude. The fact you're getting downvotrs is insane. I guess the will of the people is to war monger, so fuck it. WW3 here we come?
wyocrz@reddit
I actually get it.
"TDS" is actually multifaceted: like "woke" is.
One element of TDS is reflexively opposing anything, shall we say, properly attached to him. Or, in Steven Colbert's vernacular, "Putin's cock holster."
We're not war mongers. We're deceived. We voted for Obama twice and Trump once: the connection was at least an iota of resistance to the Military Industrial Complex.
It's just a fever, it will break.
thrublue22@reddit
I hope you're right and the fever breaks
wyocrz@reddit
If not, I'm not 2 miles from Warren AFB. I wouldn't live through the initial bombardment of actual nuclear war.
We've gone through fevers before. Garry Wills has a nice history of Christianity in America called Head & Heart, written with sympathy but it's nothing but a chronical of fevers breaking.
Mostly.
Joe_Exotics_Jacket@reddit
“Swore” is a strong word, it’s not a treaty obligation per se.
https://www.politifact.com/factchecks/2023/nov/09/chris-christie/fact-checking-chris-christie-on-us-security-obliga/
Leader_2_light@reddit
We can and should back off. The red line is NATO territory NOT Ukraine.
At the end of the day if Russia takes Ukraine it doesn't matter.
If they go for NATO that's another story.
Slippery slope arguments are weak. It's ok to give up Ukraine to save the world.
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
It's sad you gotta say out loud you're not pro Putin for not wanting small escalations to lead to ww3 but these are the times we live in.
Himser@reddit
Chamberlin?
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
No someone who accepts reality and won't ignore it.
Himser@reddit
I..sure thats what some people said about you in your past life. Didn't work then. Wont work now
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
Whatever you say Mr give them enough to fight and not win and claim anyone against that strategy is appeasing Russia.
Himser@reddit
So you support giving them more so they can win?
Flat_Boysenberry1669@reddit
Yes and we need to demand Europeans stop buying Russia gas/oil.
Vegetable-Cherry-853@reddit
Europe has finally realized that deindustrialization in order to stop buying Russian oil is stupid
fellow90@reddit
Lol , are you joking ? red lines have been crosses hundreds times according to putler and he did nothing. He did nothing when Ukraine invaded RUSSIAS territory. So can you explain what you afraid of, because I can only see you repeating kremlin bots narrative with fear mongering. I can guarantee you nothing will change after strikes into Russia with western weapons and you should stop spreading propaganda. Your fear is not justified.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Hi, sorry about the late reply. Sometimes we just leave it if too much time has passed, but this is an important topic. So I'm happy to discuss.
So it's not Putins loud red lines I'm worried about, that guy talks so much shit that he doesn't mean. However, Russia has a position and the U.S absolutely recognises it to the highest level. That is that the risk comes when Russia begins to seriously lose, it's not one action of the West, it's when they are seriously threatened. That's when a nuclear strike could occur. However, that's actually not the main concern, but I'm referring to a tactical strike. Obviously ICBM's is the big concern, but let's leave that out for now.
U.S analysts have said that the reason they preferred to dribble out weapons etc to Ukraine instead of doing something decisive, is that they judge that in order to actually kick Russia out of Ukraine they'll likely end up in a situation where Russia is reeling with large amounts of western power on their border. They worry that the fighting will not end there, and that will obviously be the time when Putin falls out a window. The fear there is several "warlord oligarchs" competing for his position and the fracturing of the nuclear arsenal between people who are worse than Putin and unpredictable. They have straight out said they'd rather bleed Russia against Ukraine while they gain money and strength.
If you've studied history and or military history you'll know that the outcomes of such situations are not usually controlled. One of the very honest things Putin said was he'd sooner see Ukraine destroyed than absorbed into the West. I believed him at the time and I still do. In terms of an off ramp there actually lies an opportunity there because he could lose and sell it as a victory if Ukraine emerges smaller, weaker, destroyed, less population etc. I don't want that for Ukraine, but in terms of politics, it's one of the few ways he could back down before getting his arse kicked or overthrown.
From Russia's point of view the great game never ended. It was handed from the Brits to the U.S. there's some truth there but paranoia aswell.
The other fear is the obvious need for Russia to beg for ever more assistance from China if they really begin to struggle. The implications there are obvious.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I'm at work and will do later today. I'll just say though that I'm not a Russian bot propagandised basement child. I'm a 47 year old businessman who has studied history and war history for 30 years. I don't live under a rock.
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
I dont really give a shit about a territory dispute in Eastern Europe. Certainly not enough to plunge head-on into a hot nuclear exchange over it. Most people in the West seem fundamentally incapable of recognizing the stark hypocrisy, of the United States officially declaring this entire goddamn hemisphere off limits to anyone else, while we invade and coup and generally destabilize Latin and South America. While at the same time decreeing that another nuclear power is just gonna have to deal with a country of its physical border getting in tight with a military alliance that is explicitly assembled against that nuclear power.
Okay, but let's escalate the shit out of this and start providing this non NATO country with specific guarantees in arming them and training them and launching NATO-made weapons into Russian territory.
That's way out of proportion to ethnically Russian oblasts, who speak Russian, being absorbed into Russia. The appeasement argument is tired as shit; when Russia pulls this move on a non-Russian European territory, okay. Escalate to crisis mode or whatever. Risking a nuclear exchange or what a country might do is insane. NATO exists so that if Russia attacks one NATO country, it gets to deal with all of NATO. Ukraine isn't NATO. NATO fighting a proxy war thru Ukraine isn't morally defensive. It's strategically advantageous right up to the point that things escalate to widespread calamity. NATO has acted this entire time in service of escalation and habitually line-stepping on this shit.
I'm not right wing, I vote Socialist. Not a Russian bot or disinfo agent. I try to stay informed, and it's plain that Russia has signaled what it will do if certain conditions are met thus entire time. They're gonna pull the trigger on their 'Escalate to Deescalate' doctrine because the West has some u stated objective here, that sure as shit isn't a peaceable settlement between belligerents.
Lithium321@reddit
"Russia has signaled what it will do if certain conditions are met thus entire time."
Yeah like when they said giving Ukraine himars and atacms would be a red line that would mean that nato was in direct conflict with them. Or like when they said that ukranian attacks on russian teritory including in the donbas would be a red line. Or when they said attacks using nato weapons on Russian territory would be a red line. Or f-16s, or storm shadow, or depleted uranium apfsds.
Oh and its ok that iran and china supply russia with weapons but when nato does that its unnecessary escalation.
And to finish it all off remember that this was only caused by nato expansion and russian would never invade another country unless that happened (Chechnya, Georgia, and Moldova dont exist).
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
All you are doing in describing the escalation ladder. Relying on restraint from a belligerent while escalating through numerous red lines isn't evidence of anything other than the belligerents reluctance to act brashly. They came real close to nuking something in 2022; you can't really cite China and Iran supplying weapons here because that's only occurred after years of NATO directly arming Ukraine.
MoScowDucks@reddit
NATO isn’t arming Ukraine, member states of NATO are. Big difference and you are only regurgitating Russian propaganda by saying NATO is supplying weapons. NATO is a defense treaty, and that’s it
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
Jokes. You catch any of that NATO summit in DC? Various topics were discussed.
MoScowDucks@reddit
Of course, because it's a war happening on NATO's borders. Why wouldn't they discuss. And why wouldn't the member states discuss what their countries are doing. NATO is a defense treaty, as I said, and as you are ignoring.
Lithium321@reddit
“They came real close to nuking something in 2022” trust me bro.
Iran started supplying drones to Russia in 2022, according to Russia they where not at war with Ukraine before then so nato didn’t arm Ukraine against Russia until the same year Iran did.
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
Read the news, bro
https://thebulletin.org/2024/06/why-the-west-should-take-russias-nuclear-threats-more-seriously/
https://m.economictimes.com/news/defence/us-made-rigorous-preparations-for-potential-russian-nuclear-strike-in-ukraine-in-2022-report/articleshow/108352645.cms
https://www.csis.org/analysis/six-days-october-russias-dirty-bomb-signaling-and-return-nuclear-crises
https://wesodonnell.medium.com/russia-almost-nuked-ukraine-in-2022-26eef445f3e8
Lithium321@reddit
If preparing a contingency plan for Russia using nuclear weapons is “real close” to Russia using nuclear weapons then we must be “real close” to a zombie apocalypse because the us government has contingency plans for that too.
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
Did you read any of that, or just skim it (if even that). The Cuban missile crisis wasn't just a bunch of contingency plans playing out. Neither was this.
aequitssaint@reddit
What exactly almost got nuked? And your source on that?
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
https://wesodonnell.medium.com/russia-almost-nuked-ukraine-in-2022-26eef445f3e8
Widely reported. Biden admin mobilized a very intensive de-escalation effort, so credit to them for that. Having come that close already, I'm mystified by their current position.
aequitssaint@reddit
But this has never gone away. You make it seem like it was aborted at the 11th hour or some shit.
Solomon-Drowne@reddit
This was a specific incident, with Russia making functional moves in preparation of dropping a nuke on 'Russian-controlled territory'. It wasn't the usual sabre-rattling, they were gonna do that shit. Read the reports.
Kool41DMAN@reddit
My guess is he's referencing the CIA-MI6 meeting the other day where they said they had concerns of Russia employing a tactical nuke in the earlier days of the war.
aequitssaint@reddit
That was never a secret and I don't think that fear has ever gone away.
Kool41DMAN@reddit
I agree. I'm just guessing that's what he's getting at as that was just a few days ago.
aequitssaint@reddit
Sorry, that wasn't directed at you more just to preempt them using it.
Leader_2_light@reddit
Well said.
We're headed to war and unfortunately many Americans are just brain dead at this point.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Have an upvote. I'm a hard left leaning human rights advocate from Australia with European heritage. I am hard against what Russia is doing, and I'm very worried about the situation in Ukraine. It must be awful.
However, I always thought NATO should've been disbanded in the 90's, and the Europeans create their own no bullshit, serious pact to counter any Russian threat. The U.S element here is very troubling to me, I haven't lived under a rock for the last few decades, and I think they can shove their 800 foreign bases which constitute an empire of bases, up their arrogant arses.
MoScowDucks@reddit
A human rights advocate who wants Ukrainians to battle Russia alone (and deal with all the human rights abuses alone as well). Either you’re a hypocrite or a phony, and probably both
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Who said I want Ukraine to fight alone? I absolutely don't want that, and I'm not those other names you said. There's nothing good about this situation and these false internet binaries aren't helpful.
Lithium321@reddit
There are hundreds of mcdonalds locations across the globe, when will Ronalds imperial ambitions stop?
ShittyStockPicker@reddit
It’s Putin’s October surprise our security agencies warned about in the spring
Leader_2_light@reddit
Ukraine is a lost cause. I'm sure top US officials know this as well.
They're just simply getting a good beating in for free on Russia right now.
It could all backfire though if they go too far which is why this is completely stupid in my opinion.
chadltc@reddit
Ukraine isn't lost. Russia lost the strategic war. Ukraine will suffer more, but Russia utterly failed in the first wave of the invasion.
Ukraine may lack the ability to toss Russua back to its borders, but Russia will run out of people before it conquers Ukraine.
connectmnsi@reddit
I'm not afraid, who's afraid? If you don't defend invasions your going to loose. If I'm drafted I have no problem standing up for what's right. Cowards can stay home Glory to Ukraine
imperialtensor24@reddit
we’re nit being serious with this stuff
if we want ukraine to survive as an independent nation, we need to stop trading with russia (oil) and with china
yes it will hurt, but it will hurt less than a shooting war
if we’re not ready to do that, let’s just shut up and let him have ukraine
privateuser169@reddit
Feared we would end up? That is a soft phrase. It was expected that russia would escalate and that needs to be matched. The more sensible thing would have been to provide Ukraine overwhelming firepower advantage and unlimited restrictions outside of russia’s nuclear doctrine and allowed them to put Putin back in his box.
aequitssaint@reddit
Do you know what Russia's nuclear doctrine is? Its essentially non existent.
Beelzeburb@reddit
Shouldn’t have to clarify an obvious point.
wyocrz@reddit
Sure does get tedious having to clarify, I've kind of given up doing so.
I guess thrashing to Megadeth in high school in the literal shadow of ICBMs on display right at the edge of town makes me a coward.
I would also love to see a shred of proof that Russia is trying to swallow all of Ukraine, rather than just the parts which were Russian speaking in, say, 2014 or like 1960 or whatever.
If all this was under Article V for Poland, maybe the risk would be bearable, but this risk is NOT bearable, this is insanity.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I am sympathetic to your comment. Honestly, I think Russia was going for some territory in the east and Crimea and adjoining areas, and political decapitation with a replacement puppet leader. I have studied military history and one doesn't occupy Ukraine with less than 200k troops.
But anyway, I will admit I don't want nuclear war over Ukraine, or even open conventional war. Definitely sympathetic to the Ukrainian ppl though. I was outraged when Russia invaded, motherfuckers. But I was 14 when the Soviets fell and I've watched the whole show very closely. I am deeply troubled by this, it's so pre WW1. As much as I can't stand that ridiculous orange monstrosity in the U.S, there is a part of me that'd rather see him vomiting out a deal with Putin that makes us all sick with the theatrics, than Kamala carry this on to its inevitable conclusion.
Such shit times we live in.
wyocrz@reddit
Why we insist on thinking people like Putin are stupid, I do not understand.
I really enjoyed a book by Anonymous, later revealed to be Michael Scheuer, called Imperial Hubris from 2004. Yes, he's a bit of a kook, but was also a CIA spook who actively hunted Osama bin Ladin. His earlier book was Through Our Enemies Eyes. That's a concept to be celebrated.
If Reddit didn't blow I'd instantly gild your comment: perfection. I almost think it's his whole pitch, but my vote doesn't matter: Wyoming isn't breaking for Harris lol
NewportNerds@reddit
They don’t call it, World War III for nothin’
I just assume my Western life will look like Gaza in a year & so will the rest of the northern hemisphere so sometimes I think /pepperintel should just be replaced with “/southernhemisphereintel” cuz the US and most of Europe is going to look like Fallout™
why bother preppin amirite? 😜 Boy i hope the missile shields work and the 30 simultaneous hunts for Red October go well.
Convinced the US let Mango run again so Putie-poo would think he had a non nuclear Manchurian candidate option. Sadly as he flails and looks like a loser, even his Russian handlers are going to start to think there’s only one solution left. Quick, give him more adderall and tell the poll makers he’s in the lead!
AllahBlessRussia@reddit
But they are not using it on NATO territory, that’s the difference
PupScent@reddit
I'm hearing that the weapons he has access to are not accurate enough, and for that reason this situation is unfair to him.
WarMiserable5678@reddit
None of them have provided Russia with high precision weapons. Something like this has never happened. It’d be like Russia giving Cuba long range weapons to hit US cities
Charlirnie@reddit
Hey that don't count the US only supports bombing for Freedom and Democracy
EscapeGoat6@reddit
There is a different set of rules for terrorists. Just look at Israel vs. Hamas.
Charlirnie@reddit
Yeah anyone that can't afford superior military grade gear is a "terrorist".... Military uniforms and advanced weaponry = good guys....poor people with secondary and handmade weapons trying to fight back = bad guys....bad guys = terrorists.... dirty bombs " Oh No" and stuff like that.
EscapeGoat6@reddit
Actually, that isn't what I meant at all.
...but now that you say mention it, shitty gear and poorly trained troops are often signs of a dictatorship and/or theocracy.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
October 7th is the day after Putin's birthday and then Hamas' leaders all flew straight to Moscow...
EscapeGoat6@reddit
I wouldn't put it past them.
Do you have a source for that? I'm genuinely interested in reading about it.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
"Thursday’s delegation is the third from Hamas to Moscow in the past year and Marzook has regularly met Bogdanov and the Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov. Russian foreign ministry officials have met Hamas delegations since 2006, when the organisation contested elections and then expelled the rival Palestinian movement Fatah."
enonmouse@reddit
Imagine having to bargain buy for your super untargeted barrages of out dated tech, yeesh.
Paper is a bit too tough for this tiger
Berserker76@reddit
Let’s fucking go, humanity is a failed experiment, time to let the world reset and start over with another species that is not as flawed as homo sapiens.
beflacktor@reddit
its actually cute that he thinks we care at this point.. he does what he's thinking and he's equally as toast anyway , giver bud,
Franklin_le_Tanklin@reddit
We’re looking at this the wrong way.
He’s only concerned about high precision systems. So let’s mass send over dumb systems and bomb/missile indiscriminately
Worried_Speaker_5567@reddit
Well, to be fair, he did say high precision.
Loganthered@reddit
So any country that Russia sells weapons to that attacks NATO allies means Russia is participating in the war?
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
NATO has been directly fighting for awhile now
RequestSingularity@reddit
Fighting? No.
Providing intelligence? Absolutely. Satellite and air craft 24/7.
Friends help friends.
Russia won't dare hit our family though. Because then NATO goes kinetic.
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
If I shoot the gun or provide you with as many guns and ammo as you want there is really no difference other than semantics IMO but hey at least in America we can disagree without going to jail like other countries 👍🏽
RequestSingularity@reddit
So gun manufacturers are responsible for the shootings in the US?
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
Absolutely not the people holding them are 💯responsible I her where you are going but situation is totally different
RequestSingularity@reddit
You can't have it both ways. It's either a shared responsibility or not.
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
IMO it is a totally different conversation when we talk individual responsibility and responsibility on a national level but hey I could be wrong or you could be wrong either way it’s all good 👍🏽
RequestSingularity@reddit
The nation is what allows the individual to buy the gun. There's no escaping it.
You're basically arguing against the right to bare arms by placing the blame on the people that enable that access and not the person wielding the weapon.
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
RequestSingularity@reddit
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
SwordfishBetter141@reddit
The long range NATO munitions Putin is referencing require NATO personnel to input the targeting coordinates. Ukrainians do not have authority to do this, hence it would mean NATO directly striking sovereign Russian territory.
No_Independent_6800@reddit
Putin says a lot of stuff that usually amounts to absolutely nothing.
Any-Road-4179@reddit
Ok, let's send in the US Army. Those soviet era misses with nuclear warheads are all rotten from graft and fraud built into the Russian government the last 50 years. All the fighting age Russians are already dead or soon will be because they have zero training and sharp sticks.
Sariscos@reddit
We can simply send in a global coalition of personnel wearing green fatigues with no country identified, just like the Russians did in Crimea. You know, to liberate the population.
65CM@reddit
He just keeps moving the red line....is this 18? 19? Times now?
WhateverUnited@reddit
Hold me back!
tactical_soul44@reddit
This ends 1 of 2 ways. A peace treaty and land taken is land kept or Russia breaks out chemical and nuclear warfare. Evetyone says the Kremlin is just sabre rattling.... Until they aren't.
SpiritualState01@reddit
All of the delusions the West and its people has about its military and economic dominance are going to be met by the growing reality that is BRICS soon enough. It's already happening for those looking.
RequestSingularity@reddit
Okay Baghdad Bob. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Ung95ORVUY
SpiritualState01@reddit
Namecalling and lame jokes don't inspire confidence in your worldview.
RequestSingularity@reddit
Name calling? lol
You're delusional.
melympia@reddit
Wait, did I miss the memo? It's a war now, not a "special military operation"? How come?
Panda_tears@reddit
If Putin thinks he can throw hands with NATO he’s sorely mistaken.
gringoswag20@reddit
the us. nato is ass
DaNostrich@reddit
Lmfao Poland could whoop Russias ass alone “NATO is ass” half of NATO would decimate Russia, desert storm style
gringoswag20@reddit
eh idk man
https://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a30392654/millennium-challenge-qassem-soleimani/
DaNostrich@reddit
Russia can’t beat NATO Cold War stockpiles currently, Russia’s army is losing 1k troops a day, if NATO was directly attacked you bet your ass they aren’t pulling punches, this is what NATO was designed for
WarMiserable5678@reddit
None of that is provable lol. It’s all propaganda. What is provable and isn’t propaganda is that Russia reclaimed 100 sq km in Kursk and has expanded in the Donbas in the past month the largest territory gains since the opening day of the war.
Naturath@reddit
The fact that Russia had to retake territory in Kursk to begin with is quite a sorry reflection of their capabilities. Trying to play that off as a win is rank delusion.
WarMiserable5678@reddit
I’m not sure what you think war is? If nato doesn’t know about an attack and China surprise attacks them and takes 500sqkm of their territory is that a “sorry reflection of their capabilities?”
Does being a strong military power mean you can never lose an inch of land?
I’m just trying to find the logical argument in this statement
Naturath@reddit
Yes, by every metric.
There is a reason the US was able to predict and publicly announce the Russian invasion before it began. Modern intelligence capabilities and large scale troop movements necessary for invasion make such things as a surprise invasion functionally impossible against any competent opponent.
While losing land and tactical withdrawals itself are not intrinsically evidence of incompetence, one must consider the context at play. Russia lost large tracts of land against an economically, technologically, and numerically inferior opponent in a conflict they initiated. Additionally, their continued rhetoric downplaying the magnitude and emphasizing their control over the situation only exacerbate their humiliation and expose their delusion.
If the Americans invaded Mexico under the pretence of stopping gang violence and somehow managed to lose control of southern Arizona, I’d be laughing just as hard. Fortunately for the Americans, it seems they prefer their military disasters to take place overseas, a destination Russia generally seems to avoid after 1905.
WarMiserable5678@reddit
That’s absolutely ridiculous. There’s an active war going on where they spent months slowly building up forces to push through undefended border region. People grew up watching too many movies and playing too many games. This is absolutely expected during a war and I wouldn’t ever say it was a poor reflection of their capabilities even if China did it to us.
Naturath@reddit
The fact that the numerically superior nation which initiated hostilities cannot fully man their border with the subject of their invasion is laughable. The fact that said aggressor continues to emphasize their damage control as victories is worse. That you personally find rank incompetence acceptable falls somewhere between the two.
KluddetheTormentoR@reddit
So this exercise was controversial when it was done. There were some liberties taken that skewed this test.
WarMiserable5678@reddit
Even before the war the biggest military in Europe was Ukraine. Poland has nothing to back the idea of its military up. No one does anywhere. Because we’ve been living in relative peace for 70 years. We’re propagating nationalist propaganda..
Barberintrst29@reddit
Russia you barely leaving a mark on Ukraine best not bark too much
YourDementedAunt@reddit
Other then Russia Ukraine is the largest country in Europe, the largest military in Europe, had been receiving NATO training and funding since 2014.
Ukraine is not some easy backwater that should have ever been easy to roll over, it's literally the hardest non-nuclear target in Europe.
At that end Ukraine is suffering terribly, yeah they have spanked the Russians and kicked their asses but this is a war of attrition and Ukraine is straining hard. Don't minimize that risk or their sacrifices.
Barberintrst29@reddit
Ukraine is a fraction of russias size, Russia is being a big bully. Russia deserves to be bombed by every country in nato
YourDementedAunt@reddit
Yeah. None of that contradicts what I said the fact of the matter is Ukraine is suffering badly during this war so it's absolutely disrespectful to dismiss their sacrifice as barely leaving a mark
Barberintrst29@reddit
How is Ukraine suffering badly on day number 1000 from a “3 day operation” from Russia
Wake up today
Sean1916@reddit
I am by no means supportive of Russia, but do you honestly believe without NATOs backing Ukraine would have been able to withstand Russia as well or as long as it has?
RequestSingularity@reddit
No, but they have our backing. Make no mistake, it's Ukraine making the biggest sacrifices. It's their lives being lost.
But when another nation invades, you have to do whatever you can to survive as a nation.
PineTreeBanjo@reddit
Why anyone listens to him is beyond me.
BronzeSpoon89@reddit
Get fuck you stupid bitch. Putin really has some balls on him. He really is looking old in that pic.
36-3@reddit
I think they would understand when NATO got directly involved in the war. just sayin'
GumbootsOnBackwards@reddit
Been escalation talks forever.
"Better not bomb our bridge or we'll be really really mad"
Ukraine bombs the bridge anyway.
"Better not... uhhh... bring the war to Russian soil!"
Ukraine captures Russian territory.
"Well... hmmm... don't use western munitions to bomb us!"
Good lord.
Raikkonen716@reddit
What are you talking about? All the points you mentioned did bring more escalation. Conventional escalation, in terms of broader military objectives and level of destruction. What started as recognition of Crimea as part of russian territory + Donbass autonomy as part of Ukrainian territory, has become the annexetion of 4 regions + the creation of a buffer zone around the border + the targeting civilian infrastructure.
dontsheeple@reddit
So it is a war then?
MaximilianClarke@reddit
This isn’t March 2022. Russians, including Putin himself, have been openly calling it a war for 2 years now https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2022/12/22/europe/putin-uses-word-war-fighting-ukraine-russia-intl-hnk
AmputatorBot@reddit
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Cormyre@reddit
That was my question; weren’t people locked up for using that word? Is this the first time he’s admitted it, or just a sloppy translation and/or writer liberties (not familiar with the source)?
All-I-Do-Is-Fap@reddit
How it started
VS
How its going
blinkinski@reddit
This is how war escalation works. Russia does the same, but in different way, since it doesn't need to be supplied how Ukraine does. This is why there are people afraid of Nuclear War, because it is the very end of such escalation.
atreides_hyperion@reddit
That's well and good, but let's not minimize the amount of fapping going on.
If we're being fully honest, it's a lot.
CostofRepairs@reddit
Just the tip, Vlad. Honest.
ProfessionalCall547@reddit
Vova. Vlad is short for Vladislav. Vova is for Vladimir
Historical_Panda_264@reddit
Just lend him 3cm of your tip. Unable to resist NATOs aggressive request..
allants2@reddit
Funny how some people still believe in what this man says.
Puzzleheaded-Bowl157@reddit
So it’s a war now?
plznodownvotes@reddit
Isn’t it clearly obvious that Russia can’t defend their borders while waging a protracted attrition type war with its land neighbour?
If it didn’t threaten with nukes a million times, Russia would’ve already been invaded by all its “friends”
EspHack@reddit
russian borders getting trespassed is just how it goes throughout history, but you must not forget what usually happens after that
Competitive_Post8@reddit
GULAGS in Russia for Russians
BabiesBanned@reddit
Meat wave tactics?
WarMiserable5678@reddit
They just took back 100sqkm of territory in Kursk in the past 24 hours
Competitive_Post8@reddit
YES, and Putin has said Russia cannot win against Nato. so war is over then. goodbye
PaleInitiative772@reddit
Oh yeah? OK.. What the fuck are you gonna do about it Pooty?
CoreyDenvers@reddit
Why does daddy Putin always think he can threaten us with a good time?
qjxj@reddit
ATACMS were just used in Kursk, no comments so far.
OuterLightness@reddit
We might as well get this bloody thing started and finished. We have been kicking World War III down the road for nearly a century. Russia, China, North Korea, and Iran have been attacking the West with impunity for years in a de facto war. Enough is enough.
Traditional-Big-3907@reddit
Let’s go. I have been practicing my sharpshooting, drone skills, and just hate for Russians, China, North Korea, Iran, and the rest of the axis. Humanity goes through this cycle and we are due. It sucks and nobody but the dictators wants this. But humanity is kinda messed up in the head anyway.
Warm-Sorbet3937@reddit
So who thinks he's doin the Putin and completely talking BS?
Tiny_Astronomer289@reddit
yes and?
Dapper_Target1504@reddit
Ugh I got some news we have been giving them target information for a long time. Himars is a gps guided system primarily for the Ukrainians. Doesn’t take a genius to us google maps and find russian air bases either.
Hot-Dragonfly5226@reddit
They’re using starlink I think now for live imagery
SpecialistOk3384@reddit
Then Google is directly participating in this war! /S @ Putzler
East-Worker4190@reddit
Oxygen is directly participating. Putin just waged war on breathing air.
shikodo@reddit
300km max range though
rabouilethefirst@reddit
We already are dumbass
Preference-Inner@reddit
Smells that folks, it's pure uncontrollable fear. Dead man walking.
cdrknives@reddit
Maybe we should just give Kiev some Minuteman missiles. Fuck it. See what Putin does then.
Proper_Today_3674@reddit
I'm surprised the US has gotten away with what we have already.
BringbackDreamBars@reddit (OP)
Apologies for kind of reiterating the same point as the post earlier today, but I think the fact we have direct verbal confirmation is something worth keeping an eye on and mentioning as well.
Putin claims that Ukraine will receive satellite data and flight missions for such strikes from its allies.
"In essence, only NATO military personnel can enter flight assignments into these missile systems. Ukrainian military personnel cannot do this.
If the decision is made, it will mean direct participation of NATO countries in the war (in) Ukraine. It will mean that the USA, European countries, are fighting with Russia.
And we will make appropriate decisions based on the threats that will be created for us,” he said in the interview.
syndicism@reddit
I love that you're getting down votes simply for relaying direct quotes.
deiprep@reddit
r/worldnews is leaking into this post
Less_Subtle_Approach@reddit
NATO special forces are assuredly already participating covertly. If Russia had anything to gain by escalating this conflict they would have already done so. The truth is the current operations tempo is already unsustainable. Putin will either find a way to wind things down while saving face or end up a colony of China.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
I don't know if it's "assuredly".
For sure very capable ex Special Forces have hours of incredible interviews on YouTube. Including those that fought with the Kurds talking about taking out 300 Isis with no heavy weaponry like it's nothing...
Although they said Ukraine is completely different and they thought they'd die at any moment...
lexegon12@reddit
He is talking about "crossing red lines" for 2.5 years. Nothing happened in the past, nothing will happen in the future. He is a weak pathetic looser.
PeterRingholm@reddit
Can you promise that?
AlphaMetroid@reddit
Do nothing: Putin escalates
Do something: Putin says he'll escalate
At some point people just need to render him incapable of escalating because appeasement doesn't work. Not historically and not in the context of this war either.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
Well said!
Very succinct and complete argument!
Departure_Sea@reddit
Appeasement has never worked and has always caused more bloodshed.
ted-clubber-lang@reddit
Fuck Putin and fuck Russia. Ukraine is taking the gloves off. STFB
Fragrant_Mistake_342@reddit
There's no world where China and Iran throw in their lot with Russia. The NATO and broader US Hegemony is simply too strong. Russia can bluster here as much as they want, but they simply do not have the power to affect their threats.
privateuser169@reddit
Scared little bully says what?
davesr25@reddit
Johnny-Unitas@reddit
I wonder how long it would take NATO to gain air superiority over Russia? A few days??
JohnDorian0506@reddit
He (the clown) meant to say “the special military operation“ . Not “the war”.
Putin said that the permission for long-range strikes against Russia "will mean that NATO countries are directly at the special military operation with Russia."
JohnConnor7@reddit
And what's gonna happen then bitch? Say it again!
Gastenns@reddit
More meaningless threats. What is he going to do about it? Fire missles at nato allies? That would end the war fast because Putin is struggling against a non nato army with modern tools. Fighting a coordinated nato army with modern tools and logistics would remove Russia from Ukraine real fast. Unless he’s ready to escalate to a nuclear encounter these threats are meaningless. And if he would rise to a nuclear encounter then nato needs to take action now to end this psychotic threat in Europe.
Duke_Indigo@reddit
If I had a nickel for every time this toothless lion, who can’t defeat Ukraine, threatened NATO… I’d be rich.
West9Virus@reddit
Oh good. He got the message.
sploaded@reddit
Yeah no shit Putin
wombat6168@reddit
Blahhh blahhh blahhh blahhh heard it all before.
jugo5@reddit
So Iran and North Korea are fair targets then?
RepulsiveMetal8713@reddit
Then it should be a good weekend for Ukrain, watching ruzzia burn baby…
SpecialistOk3384@reddit
I think that photo might be either an old picture, or a body double.
Unfair_String1112@reddit
Russia/Putin are chicken. They can barely handle a fight against Ukraine, let alone NATO, so they're trying to do the paper tiger thing of appearing to be more ferocious and capable than they are. The reality is that the bear is long dead. It's being puppeted by Putin and powered by the blood of russian soldiers, but it is a hollow corpse and nothing more.
BabiesBanned@reddit
Hey poopskin!!!! Suck this unzips fly
EspHack@reddit
its all empty threats until it isnt, and sure enough, mighty bear turned out to be underwhelming to say the last,
so what if he remains capable of wiping a chunk of the world off the earth and poisoning the rest, lets play chicken with that on the belief that the bear is rusty to the bone, and here i thought russian roulette was a russian thing
Useless_or_inept@reddit
It's just another Russian "red line". After it's crossed, they'll declare another new red line.
If it was really an act of war to supply long-range weapons, then the Iranian & North Korean weapons hitting Ukrainian schools & hospitals would already have led to Iran & North Korea being at war with the West.
Do you remember when any Western defensive aid to Ukraine, anything at all, would be crossing a "red line"? If you've forgotten, it's forgivable, there have been a hundred other red lines since then.
romcomtom2@reddit
Ok so they, now what? You going to go to war with NATO now? Going to drop a nuke or two?
Russia is just shaking your fist at the air.
BringbackDreamBars@reddit (OP)
Similar points to earlier today, but with a direct verbal confirmation from Putin.
Its likely to be more empty threats but on the radar.
FickleRegular1718@reddit
He's already said we're at war I'm pretty sure. It's all over his media for sure. It's kinda funny that one side is fully convinced their at war while Ukraine bravely holds them back single handily...
Not that there's anything funny about Ukraine's experience...
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Absolutely worth keeping on the radar, this is a very bad war and it definitely could spin out of control. We also have to expect statements like this from Putin when he's being embarrassed.
delta806@reddit
SEND ME TO CRIMEA, JOE!!!!! LETS DO THOS WAHOOOO
Morrland01@reddit
About time 🙌
Street-Big9083@reddit
Putin: “nato is directly participating in this war” Also putin: “if nato does ____ it means they will be directly participating in this war”
StrengthMedium@reddit
Doubt it.
Normal_Ad_1767@reddit
So it’s a war then? Where is his prison sentence for spreading false information about the SVO?
HereticBanana@reddit
Oh man, I wonder if Russia is going to issue another 'Red Line' warning... It's totally real this time guys!
Quigonjinn12@reddit
Just wanna point out that he said the same about any missiles entering Russia, then it happened and he moved the red line. Then he said the same about Ukraine invading Russia with nato weapons, they’re in there rn and I haven’t seen any indication he sees them as NATO being in the country. He’s full of shit.
Empty_Afternoon_8746@reddit
We are going to crush you Putin my suggestion to the Russian people is give him to us dead or alive and join the rest of the world!
HurtFeeFeez@reddit
They've been pushing the narrative that they've been fighting NATO for the past few years as an excuse for their failures in Ukraine.
Dr-Pottymouth@reddit
What are you gonna do about it? Show me.
Natural_Treat_1437@reddit
Nato doesn't need to participate. Just sending ammunition jack. Go Ukraine 🇺🇦
Electric-RedPanda@reddit
lol, ok Putin