DFW Traffic Deaths Surge, Vision Zero Falters
Posted by Amazing-Yak-5415@reddit | Dallas | View on Reddit | 192 comments
Posted by Amazing-Yak-5415@reddit | Dallas | View on Reddit | 192 comments
Doc2142@reddit
People can downvote me all day long but we need more cops and speed cameras. DFW is the worst and I lived in LA.
culture_creep@reddit
Go back to LA
SipoteQuixote@reddit
I was just telling my wife that, we need those red light cameras back. When I was growing up, I hated that shit and was like maaaan fuck the government and blah blah. Now I see dumb fucks speeding through school zones because the cops aren't around to do anything or care to do anything. They could meet their quota in 3 hours if they set up in the right areas. Instead their sitting in a rich neighborhood cul-de-sac making TikToks or talking to their mistress.
muskratboy@reddit
We absolutely don’t need red light cameras. They increase traffic accidents, and do nothing to increase safety. They are a revenue generator, that’s it.
Alternative_Program@reddit
US DOT and IIHS have both studied red-light cameras and both have concluded that they reduce the risk of accidents and fatalities by 20 to 25%:
Lack of enforcement is a problem. Red light cameras can address that.
Have red light camera operators also played with light timing in the past to generate more revenue and can that cause safety issues? Yes and yes.
But red light cameras by themselves do not increase traffic accidents. If obeying the signal does, and aggressive drivers start rear-ending people, then you work on the timing.
But you'd much rather have a lower speed, lower energy bumper hit than seeing people get T-Boned at full speed in the middle of an intersection. Reducing those absolutely increases safety.
kon---@reddit
A report from 2005 then another from 2016. Both of which somehow exist in a bubble while all other reports reveal the opposite to be true.
Aggressive driving is not the issue. Following along at a safe distance suddenly becomes critical when the car ahead slams their brakes resulting fully removing the distance from the car immediately behind them.
Alternative_Program@reddit
You trust Koch funded policy “studies” then? I don’t.
I also drive once in awhile. And the way people are clutching pearls over other drivers braking is pretty dramatic. Maybe we all ignore it out of politeness but that’s a real dumb argument.
Even so, you’ve got a lot more crumple zone tapping bumpers than you do with a side impact. I know for sure which I’d rather be involved in, and it’s not the one where neither vehicle hits their brakes. F=ma
Lung_doc@reddit
It seems there is still debate as to whether some of the above results could be explained for other reasons.
This 2020 analysis of Houston found really no benefits
https://phys.org/news/2020-11-economist-publishes-traffic-camera-effectiveness.html
Alternative_Program@reddit
The source for that is here: https://www.montana.edu/gallagher/documents/Appendix-for-Gallagher-and-Fisher.pdf
I'm not sure I'd trust the methodology or some of the assumptions it puts forward. For example, I would guess there's a correlation between people willing to run red lights and people who are not well informed of city politics while the study claims all Houston drivers should have been well aware they were decommissioned.
It's also unclear skimming it if more than one year was looked at post decommissioning and it makes a lot of assertions not supported by evidence. Like the claims seen here about rear-end collisions and their relative danger. Does it provide evidence for those assertions? Not as far as I read.
Jernbek35@reddit
I’m not a huge fan of red light cameras especially the turn right on red ones as I’ve still gotten a ticket after fully stopping (which the video showed), but I would be a fan of putting speed cameras in school zones active when the lights are blinking. Also, Austin ISD had cameras in their buses on the stop sticks when the bus was letting kids off that would also send fines to violators. I thought that was cool and we need more of that.
LadySandry@reddit
The problem with the bus cameras is they also have weird timing. They will trigger and send people tickets who were already passing the bus before the stop sign is out and lights on because the recording starts when they initially start to deploy. But the rule is you can continue if you were already in the act of passing before the Stop sign is fully out.
It's a PITA because you have to go to a sketchy courthouse to wait around and contest, there isn't a way to do it online even if you have dashcam proof or it's blatantly obvious in the footage they send you.
Also, seems like people don't realize that if there is a median, the traffic going the opposite way doesn't have to stop. But people's brains glitch and they slam on their break which can def cause problems :(
muskratboy@reddit
So red light cams don't inherently increase risk, but the way they are universally implemented does.
Alternative_Program@reddit
You didn't even skim the studies which say the opposite of what you claim.
This is like Trump just saying what you want to be true despite the evidence.
muskratboy@reddit
“A modest aggregate cost-crash benefit” IF the systems are actually implemented perfectly, which in DFW at least, they were not.
Essentially it says that 90 degree wrecks are lessened, while rear end wrecks are increased. And since 90 degree wrecks are more expensive, we get a modest improvement in economic impact.
Not exactly a major flex there.
Alternative_Program@reddit
20 to 25% fewer deaths is absolutely significant. You’ve started with an opinion and then sought out quotes to support it.
ArwingMechanic@reddit
They do not. Modern studies disproved that. One biased study of Texas only before we banned them, cherry picked high accident intersections and reported that they increased accidents. Not properly reported on was that not all intersections included had red light cameras and that in Dallas the accident increases were all at lights without them.
GREG_FABBOTT@reddit
Red light cameras reduce traffic accidents, as long as you leave the light timing alone.
The problem is that cities view red light cameras as revenue generators, not safety devices. When people catch on and stop running red lights, cities fuck around with the traffic timing to keep the revenue flowing in, which is what creates accidents.
The problem is that the business model for red light cameras doesn't work for safety. Private companies that manufacture them require massive subscription fees, regardless of whether the cameras produce revenue or not. Cities end up losing tons of money.
Cities would have to purchase the systems outright to bypass the subscription fees and make the whole thing more financially feasible, but I don't think this is possible. All of the companies that manufacture these, the few that exist, operate off of a subscription based services.
Edg-R@reddit
Fuck red light cameras. They're unsafe and the fact that the light timing can be modified to get more revenue rather than having a standard light timing is part of the problem.
The other problem is weather and visibility related. If someone's driving through a red light camera and it's raining, they'll be scared to get a ticket so they're likely to slam on the breaks because they don't know if the light timing has been tampered with.
I used to live on US380 a few year ago and light timing was ESPECIALLY bad here. The light would turn green, then yellow for like 2 seconds and then red. How the fuck is a vehicle or worse, an 18 wheeler supposed to stop within 2 seconds (im exaggerating of course, idk what the exact amount of time was but it was extremely short).
If whoever is responsible for red light cameras can't be trusted to program the light timing to avoid wrecks rather than to make more money then they dont get to run red light cameras.
ralpes@reddit
It’s safe if done right. If the state allows red light cameras and regulate how they are allowed to use, this is very safe. Tested and used this way around the world.
For different speed limits, light switching times can be defined, eg for a street with 60 mph speed limit assuming 1.5 seconds perception and reaction time a 18wheeler needs nearly 6 second for full stop. With 7 seconds yellow light and the red light camera gives 1 seconds on red light before taking pictures there is plenty time for 18wheelers and even more for normal cars.
Standardized traffic light switching times increase security even without cameras. I totally agree this revenue should become a measure income stream for towns.
noncongruent@reddit
Red light cameras are banned in this state, and for good reason. Regardless of the ideal motives behind them, in reality they were primarily used as a way to export Texas tax dollars to out of state investors. Many of the tickets that were issued were bogus, but the $75 price point was chosen to get people to pay rather than fight against the bogus ticket. Me? I spent well over $150 to fight mine, taking half a day off work unpaid, burning gas to drive downtown, and paying for parking. The reviewing "officer" took one look at the video and agreed it was improperly issued and he dismissed it on the spot. What's interesting is that Texas law requires an actual police officer licensed by the state to review all the videos before approving them, only in my case (and I'm sure many thousands of other cases) the officer just rubberstamped the approval. Hitting that approval key as fast as they could for their 8 hour shift must be rewarding work.
AFAIK red light camera proponents owe me that money, in a very literal sense. Where's my money?
DA_DSkeptic@reddit
They don't even generate revenue for the city.
JPree@reddit
Red light cameras never help. If you get a ticket from one, you can just argue in court that there wasn't an actual cop present at the time. A guy in Corpus Christi contested it and won. Then the cameras started coming down.
Iant-Iaur@reddit
Found the red light runner.
hysterical_useless@reddit
Or cruising around mall/shopping center parking lots, scanning plates and ticketing ppl for expired tags/insurance
packapunch_koenigseg@reddit
Agreed. People distracted by their phones are blasting through school zones and stop lights/signs. I drive through a school zone every day to get to work and it’s insane how often people go flying by me going 40+ while on their phones
SimpleVegetable5715@reddit
You're the top comment, Doc! Happy Cake Day!
TexasReallyDoesSuck@reddit
speed cameras were illegal & run by private companies basically. they also can be wrong, it's not easy to know for certain who is driving legally, & they also were faulty at times.
realistically, there needs to be much more traffic enforcement. for all types (drivin fast, too slow, takin illegal turns, runnin lights, etc)
GuardedKnight@reddit
We never had sped cameras to my recollection however the red light cameras incentivized many drivers to actually speed up when a light changes to yellow just to make it through and beat the camera - which presents additional dangers in and of itself. It was also very easy to beat those tickets with properly tinted windows and windshield. Nothing but a revenue grab in the end. City doesn’t need nanny cameras at intersections..
noncongruent@reddit
After I got a bogus ticket where my dashcam clearly showed I had a green (and so did the red light camera at the review office) I was incentivized to slam on my brakes whenever the yellow showed up, and I always stopped a full car length behind the line. I also never went on red, period. I'd sit there for as long as it took to turn green before I went, even if it was a right turn only lane. No green, no go.
yottabit42@reddit
Now they just blatantly run red lights. I literally see 2-3 red light runners at almost every big intersection every day. This is better?
SuccotashOther277@reddit
I see it a lot more too. I know anecdotes aren’t enough on their own. People keep saying that cameras cause more accidents . Any reputable studies on this?
Alternative_Program@reddit
No. It's just people justifying their opposition. Both US DOT and IIHS have studied it and concluded the opposite. Red light cameras improve safety.
GuardedKnight@reddit
Especially in smaller municipalities, this is nothing but a revenue generator. The first link you provided indicates you’re simply trading side impacts for rear impacts (table 2).
https://www.illinoispolicy.org/red-light-cameras-take-another-500m-from-illinois-drivers-in-5-years/
Alternative_Program@reddit
In some cases maybe you're simply trading stepping on a bear trap for stubbing your toe yes.
What's the end result? Fatalities go down. Safety is improved.
Linking a conservative think-tank like the Illinois Policy Institute is hardly persuasive IMO.
GuardedKnight@reddit
Not at all - in fact I’ve had 2 cars totaled due to drivers doing exactly this over the past 20 years. Both then attempted to flee on foot. One of them downtown Main Street at lunchtime with a kid in her car…there needs to be change but red light cameras aren’t the solution.
TexasReallyDoesSuck@reddit
I mean red light cameras
somethink@reddit
Or you could challenge it and there was nothing they could do. In Texas you have to have an accuser/officer in court, with these cameras there were neither
noncongruent@reddit
I'd be in favor of bringing them back, under one condition: Anyone that can show that the red light camera ticket they got was bogus gets an automatic $10,000 reward. No exceptions, no questions, they get handed the money right there in the review office.
CombatConrad@reddit
I’ve driven in both LA and NYC and this place scares me.
DennisTheBald@reddit
Well, the red light cameras don't shoot anybody
berserk_zebra@reddit
Cameras are unenforceable. Maybe instead of more cops improve the rail. Instead of a fucking underground toll expressway underneath the original a rail would have been better.
Own_Help9900@reddit
Nimby's voted it down
Dick_Lazer@reddit
I'm all for more rail but there would have to be a huge culture shift around here. Too many people afraid of sharing a ride with strangers and feel safer confined to the cage of their vehicle, even though it's statistically far more dangerous.
rockstar504@reddit
I've been stuck on the shitty DART in a tunnel for hours and missed half a concert, if I have to be on time anywhere I'm not taking the rail. I'll just drive and leave early.
berserk_zebra@reddit
Yeah the culture part, is it because highways won’t let it happen? Those in McKinney live to far apart to walk to a stop and hop on to go to Dallas or Fort Worth in a comfortable stress free commute.
Shit the amount of money people would save by not having a car!
Dick_Lazer@reddit
Probably a mixture of people being used to cars because everything's so spread out (and public transport isn't always available or convenient) and good ol' stubborn Texas individualism.
AggravatingEchidna83@reddit
The subset of the population causing the deaths/injuries/property damage will be completely unaffected by "speed camera" or "more cops'
A car with fake paper plates a kids standing on the back seat will be ignored by the police, because it opens a bottomless rabbit hole.
Welcome to open borders America.
MissyxAlli@reddit
I’m from SoCal and always thought DFW drivers were worse.
No-Sir3564@reddit
You haven’t been to Houston then!
arlenroy@reddit
I concur, I also came from California. Where are all the god damn cops on the freeway? Imagine how much more cautious people would drive if they were afraid of getting a ticket? But that doesn't happen, because you never see cops on the freeway. Unless it's a speed trap. So people just drive like assholes, because there's no consequences for their actions.
CantDoThatOnTelevzn@reddit
I used to see dps getting people at very specific sections of the dnt, but I don’t think I’ve seen a hwy traffic stop by dpd in 30 years.
Trespeon@reddit
Speeding isn’t so much the issue than people just lane changing like idiots. You can drive fast AND safe.
I usually speed but you’ll never see me tailgating anyone, I always use my blinker when lane changing and avoid changing lanes if there isn’t some room between me and another vehicle.
Most people aren’t like this though and just do whatever and pray to god no one else is in the way.
Lemondrop168@reddit
We need them to stop jerking off to their tactical gear and do actual police work. If they want to join the military, join the gd military! That would free up space in the force for people who actually want to focus on public safety.
rockstar504@reddit
People just slow down where the speed cameras are and then go back to speeding, they don't really even work
Farm_Professional@reddit
I’ve seen people stopped at red lights just take off. Twice last week and that’s more than I’ve seen my entire life which is saying something.
It is ridiculous and Dallas has the worst drivers I’ve seen and no idea why. I get traffic is bad but are you running late? Wake up earlier. Are you having a medical emergency? Why are you driving? Etc etc, I just can’t fathom why people drive like animals out here.
kissmeimhappy@reddit
What, they took the cameras away. Do you know how much money a lot of drivers would pay. SMH
kon---@reddit
What are more cops and or the introduction of easily abused cameras going to do to prevent conservative and lower skilled drivers from causing accidents?
Dick_Lazer@reddit
Deaths are far more likely to occur from people driving at dangerously high speeds. Cops crack down on the speeders and people running red lights.
kon---@reddit
False.
Deaths do occur at much higher rates due to drivers not paying attention.
That's the matter. Not the rate of travel. Or are you saying the posted limit is utterly safe and no one would ever have an accident if only everyone stayed at the posted limit?
Dick_Lazer@reddit
Everything becomes more dangerous at higher rates of speed, especially at speeds that exceed the highway speed limits around here. The vehicle structure itself becomes more unstable, even the most skilled drivers have a harder time making evasive steering maneuvers, restraint systems such as airbags and safety belts fail to keep the forces on occupants below severe injury levels, etc.. There's simply far more energy involved that greatly reduces the reliability of safety protections. If you don't understand this I doubt you're a very good driver.
kon---@reddit
You want to make this about physics. I get that. However, your starting point on highways is that 70mph is safe while 75mph is dangerous.
Your argument is centered on safety. Okay. Then I put it to you, the fact that highway travel at lower speeds remains inherently dangerous to everyone on the road your logic ends up concluded the solution is to eliminate highway travel. I mean, safety is number one, yes?
Dick_Lazer@reddit
Highway speeds probably have been too high, so it's a good thing that they're starting to lower them. Accidents at higher speeds are inherently going to be more dangerous regardless. And heavy traffic means that there will inevitably be times when drivers won't be able to reach the speed limit even if they wanted to.
Accomplished-Ad3250@reddit
If tickets were a percentage of their income that'd help.
AbueloOdin@reddit
That is reactive. Being proactive means new cars should have gps monitoring speed limiters. Why have a single person try to enforce the speed limit when you can have technology actually enforce a speed limit?
urmomwent2university@reddit
I’m for this but only for not allowing vehicles to travel UNDER the speed limit
AbueloOdin@reddit
What if there is rain? Or something in the road? You do still have to accelerate to get into the road. Traveling slower than the speed limit is required on a daily basis.
The only way you could get around that is if you mechanically linked all the cars together, mechanically controlled all their steering, and had them get on the highway and off the highway together.
Wait... Did we just invent a train?
nomnomnompizza@reddit
More speed humps too. They installed a few on a main road near me, but now people just cut through a residential neighborhood to avoid them.
Hsensei@reddit
Speed cameras are illegal in Texas and the companies running the red light cameras didn't make enough money and wanted more from the cities. They ended up costing to much to run.
Drewskeet@reddit
They also caused more accidents than they prevented.
yottabit42@reddit
These are fixable problems.
Ateam043@reddit
I’ve said the same thing since I moved here from LA 3 years ago. Drivers are wild out here.
Softy_K@reddit
I would even compromise on red light cameras but stop sign cameras and school cameras are a must.
drdonger-@reddit
I really wish we had red light cameras. I witness people running reds at least every other day.
woodcutwoody@reddit
It’s like you posted it knowing that you are wrong.
hardleft121@reddit
yo happy cake day Doc2142
Local_Anything191@reddit
We need more cops ticketing people for going extremely slow in the left lane on freeways. EVERY day there are left lane campers which causes everyone to switch lanes to get around them which causes congestion which causes tons of traffic and car accidents. I’ve driven regularly in over 12 states and Dallas is the absolute fucking worst. A bunch of complete fucking morons driving here
Verittan@reddit
Combine all three along with high rates of speed and overpopulation, and you have DFW highways.
LilDebSez@reddit
Add to that, there are many people driving without licenses. Even then, licensed drives should be reminded of basic rules of the road. Perhaps use those light traffic signs (the ones that warn you of an accident ahead or silver alerts) to post reminders.
Greenmantle22@reddit
In fairness, there are no rules of the road where some of them come from.
LilDebSez@reddit
In fairness, when you go to a new place, you need to learn and follow the rules & laws. Rules & laws exist to prevent chaos... Oh, wait, that's what has happened. 🤔
CansBottlesandKegs@reddit
No insurance as well
BlazinAzn38@reddit
Cars are also getting far too big. We live in F150 land and it’s literally killing people
nomnomnompizza@reddit
Lets give equal hate to the big ass SUVs
Greenmantle22@reddit
And the wine moms who drive them.
kon---@reddit
Roads are full of conservative, selfish, slow to process drivers who perhaps shouldn't be on the highway causing as many slow downs and collisions as they do.
yottabit42@reddit
Not all aggressive drivers have Trump, Let's Go Biden, and No Step on Snek stickers on their cars, but most do...
WigglingWeiner99@reddit
Not a lot of Altimas or Chargers with those stickers, I've noticed. Truck bros, definitely. Clapped out paper/no plate crazies, mustangs, and chargers/challengers veering across 5 lanes at once? Very few bumper stickers.
EarOfPizza@reddit
There are archetypes of psycho drivers of all races and political persuasions. Lifted truck boomers,, black Altima guys, asian women in luxury SUVs, hispanic work truck guys, and many more. You know em when you see em
yottabit42@reddit
Lol true!
kon---@reddit
Not all conservative drivers have Trump, Let's Go Brandon, and No Step on Snek stickers on their cars, but most do...
SadAd3257@reddit
Honestly you are right. I wish there was a test for fear. These people out here driving too scared cause so many wrecks because they constantly make unbelievably poorly timed attempts to brake and they are always pulling out in front of faster cars. Honestly they should stay on feeder roads
kon---@reddit
Can't go anywhere without encountering several slow moving vehicles cutting across two or more lanes of oncoming traffic causing disruption down the line.
THAT person is the one who shows up going on about aggressive drivers. There's 100s of thousands of them operating vehicles in the area. Going about as if they're the only one out there and the rest of us will just have to agree with their unsafe rate of travel.
FruityPebblesBinger@reddit
You're a bot, right? There's no way a real person could come up a partisan take this braindead.
Shitty drivers come in all shapes, sizes, colors and political affiliations.
kissmeimhappy@reddit
Yes that’s what I’m saying it’s weird. Go to nyc and the speed limit is 50 on pkwys so you got 70 in dfw but don’t wanna drive 70 or 75 🤦🏾♂️
slowhands45@reddit
There’s zero traffic enforcement, regardless of the road. Was next to a cop car at a red light a few weeks back and we watched a car run the red light into cross traffic in front of us. The red light runner slammed on to their brakes, narrowly avoiding a collision, and I looked over at the cop. He watched the whole thing happen, shrugged his shoulders and shook his head like “these idiots.” He and I were the first cars in our lanes at the red light and the car that ran their light was still stopped trying to regain their composure. It would have been the easiest ticket he could have written that day. Didn’t even consider doing anything. Just drove past the dude when our light turned green a few seconds later.
bikerdude214@reddit
I’ve seen the exact same thing at an intersection in downtown Dallas. Everyone was honking and the cop didn’t do a damn thing.
kissmeimhappy@reddit
And ass hats jumping in front of a car going 20 miles faster than them is fucking dumb. Stay out the left lane if you go the speed limit or less then the speed limit
ewp1991@reddit
well, you have to make that red light to save you two minutes...
Greenmantle22@reddit
Why care about the two minutes? Most of you aren’t going anywhere interesting anyway.
ZapActions-dower@reddit
Chances are it doesn’t even save you any time cuz you’ll just get stuck at the next one. When someone is going 20 over or runs a red light, I always get a little kick out of seeing them stuck at the same light I am a minute or two later.
mountainclimb312@reddit
Yeah I noticed that the lights are timed poorly so it’s likely you’ll hit a bunch of red lights unless you speed
yottabit42@reddit
Or you could just chill, listen to some music or a podcast or a book, and enjoy the drive. Playing real life frogger is super dangerous for yourself and others, and it often makes traffic problems much worse.
yottabit42@reddit
Have you tried leaving 2 minutes earlier? Lol
em0_ch1ck@reddit
I got tboned on the 31st of August and it feels like I’m seeing more fatal and dangerous crashes everyday
booboogonzalez@reddit
Went to Finland, the traffic was like polar opposite. Can you believe they didn’t speed up when they saw a pedestrian?? I tugged on my bf like “wtf u tryna get killed” when he was crossing the road but the cars just stopped for him on their own without needing a light even. I became a communist so fast (lol they’re a socialist+capitalist democracy but ik some idiot Americans that would consider it the same)
tacoscholar@reddit
Third year in Dallas, I simply do not see cops on the highway, ever.
slapppyy@reddit
I got pulled over going 148 in a Porsche 911 turbo s. I only got a ticket for going 104 lmao. They don’t care.
Regular-Ticket8267@reddit
This speaks volumes to the world we live in... complaining because you were given leniency, avoided arrest, an increased fine, and more. You should have challenged it and confessed to the judge the extent of your felonious acts.
slapppyy@reddit
I thought this was America 🇺🇸
Maximus-Festivus@reddit
If you want to see law enforcement in Dallas , do a rolling stop around Highland Park neighborhood and wait 15 seconds.
tacoscholar@reddit
Real question: would that be DPD or HPPD? On my regular commute from Dallas to Plano and back there is a larger presence of police the farther north I travel.
Maximus-Festivus@reddit
I belief HPPD
Misoangry@reddit
My family member was laid to rest today after being killed in a accident last week. The individual that killed her was traveling at a high rate of speed on a well known busy street and hopefully will face charges but we are unsure at this time. I have heard from people who live in the area and say that there are people speeding regularly on this street and there is little to no enforcement from police. People need to slow down and I wish there was more traffic enforcement because it's becoming so dangerous to drive in this metroloplex
jmugan@reddit
I wish they wouldn't conflate vehicle occupant deaths with pedestrian deaths. They seem to have separate causes. They have some things in common, big cars and speed limits and such, but in terms of solutions, they are pretty different.
IceKingWizard@reddit
I work in the ER. Drunk driver got in a wreck, DPD brought him to the ER (fair) but the patient had no medical complaints and was given a choice. Do you want to go to jail or the ER, of course he chose the ER and the cops hightailed outta there so they didn’t have to file a report.. patient should’ve been arrested and booked to jail but he got away scott free with no consequence for his actions.
Cops don’t do anything regards to traffic
raydators@reddit
What happened to the traffic cops. Freeways are just race tracks now. Are the traffic cops busy busting vape shops . Which one produced the most death and injury. My guess is high speed traffic on all main streets.
TopofTheTits@reddit
Every on-ramp causes traffic jams because the highways are fundamentally badly designed. I can't imagine the amount of money and time that gets wasted because of unnecessary traffic in dallas.
SimpleVegetable5715@reddit
Dallas actually has fairly generous on ramps, but it doesn't matter if people don't let you merge, just to be a few cars ahead.
Caaaaarrrrlll@reddit
DNT and 635 interchange would like a word
TopofTheTits@reddit
And when you actually get on, no one goes above 60
Mesquiter@reddit
Dallas drivers are inconsiderate and childish. If you drive and play with your phone (I call adults with phones play pretties) you are an idiot. I see more adults cruising at 85 in 65, all while holding the phone up to their face. Crazy driving with ZERO law enforcement. That's Texans and that is why we are strapped most of the time. We have a jackass government with jack wagon citizens who could care less about their impact on others. This is still the wild west and it is odd that folks still don't know how to schedule their time. BTW...what is this c so with the phones being held up to you head while driving. Bluetooth is a better choice but I assume the same stupid people driving at high speeds with their play pretty out are too stupid to set it up. Mobile phones are dumbing down Americans and Idiocracy is just around the corner. Adult up and put the phone away while driving and slow down.
bbrosen@reddit
why do people want more government intrusion into their lives?
indie_mcemopants@reddit
Dallas has the highest traffic fatality rate in America.
noncongruent@reddit
No, it doesn't, that's Memphis, TN. Dallas is #9:
https://www.usnews.com/insurance/auto/safest-least-safe-cities-for-drivers-study
Boston is the #1 safest city, but they have a city-wide 25mph speed limit so getting anywhere in Boston can take twice the time because of the slow-moving congestion.
indie_mcemopants@reddit
Actually your link says it's Albuquerque, but who knows? I was basing it on this.
noncongruent@reddit
Graphic from my link showing Memphis #1 and Dallas #9 for least safe cities:
https://www.usnews.com/object/image/00000187-048b-df4a-a7c7-cf9b57930000/leastsafe2x.png?update-time=1679598294524&size=responsiveFlow970
Graphic from my link showing Boston #1 in safety:
https://www.usnews.com/object/image/00000187-0487-d95f-afb7-0c8fdbd20000/safest2x.png?update-time=1679408370083&size=responsiveFlow970
The "Driven to Death" series seems mainly focused on Loop 12, and just certain parts of Loop 12. Also, they're using data from 2021, the link I posted shows data from last year so it's two years more current.
indie_mcemopants@reddit
[From your link] (https://imgur.com/WpaE0Su)
noncongruent@reddit
Also from my link:
Two different ways of looking at the data.One way is per miles driven, and the other way is per capita. In any case Dallas does not have the "highest traffic fatality rate in America" as you originally stated.
slbarrett89@reddit
Why is there no state police presence on the highways here?
sapphirekangaroo@reddit
I think we also need to consider that TX as a whole rates #6 in the nation for the most number of drunk driving fatalities per capita, with a shocking 42% of all car crash fatalities related to drunk driving. Dallas itself rates #7 on the list of cities with the worst per capita fatalities (Odessa and Midland rank at numbers 1 and 3, Houston is number 16, Lubbock is 18, Lewisville is 21, and San Antonio is ranked 26).
Looking at the graph from the report the city released about date and time of car crash fatalities in Dallas, the most happen by far on Friday night into early Saturday and on Saturday night into early Sunday. The only other pattern is higher fatalities from 3-6pm on weekdays, as people rush home and run errands.
TX has a drinking and driving problem even more than it has problems with road design (which does suck at places!) and driver attentiveness (which also sucks).
SimpleVegetable5715@reddit
I think more public transportation would help. People aren't not going to drink, but DART could keep bus and light rail service going to give people a safe ride.
SimpleVegetable5715@reddit
I hate those spots that force you to zip across 2-3 lanes of traffic in order to not be forced to exit, and the other drivers definitely do not work with you even if you have your blinkers on. Then there's some where you don't have a choice but to merge, like to get onto 183. It's definitely better to just miss your exit than to get into an accident, but I wish Dallas drivers were more courteous. Y'all some cut throat assholes out there on the roads.
teitelman93@reddit
Just stay away from people let them pass you pretty simple tbh
Dick_Lazer@reddit
Lol sure, just stay away from other people during rush hour traffic. Why didn't I ever think of that
teitelman93@reddit
Cool story bro
teitelman93@reddit
No Shit dude
gotthesauce22@reddit
Is the highway patrol understaffed or something?
Dick_Lazer@reddit
They don't want to work anymore.
Reluctantziti@reddit
I got downvoted just yesterday for saying we need to invest in better and faster public transportation, incentivize businesses to have WFH policies, create better community amenities so people don’t have to travel as far, to reduce the number of cars on the road because it’s the only thing that actually makes traffic deaths go down. But sure let’s put more cops on the streets to shoot people over traffic stops and lower the speed limits. I’m sure that’ll work.
Dick_Lazer@reddit
We should be doing all of those things, it doesn't have to be either/or.
nihouma@reddit
I agree with everything you were saying about transit, WFH, etc. But on speed limits, a lot of them are too high. The solution isn't to lower speed limits while doing nothing else, but to redesign streets/roads to encourage lower speeds and *then* lower the speed limit
What the city council did won't change anything because the design of 75 encourages high speeds since it is very long and straight with wide lanes and no obstructions, so lowering the speed limit won't change anything
saxmanB737@reddit
It’s all about the road design. Cops and speed limit signs don’t do a thing to slow people.
andreezy93@reddit
lol at Dallas’ road design. Having lived in two other cities, I gotta say. This city’s road design consistently encourages traffic to cut across multiple lanes, and consistently throws in slow traffic into high speed traffic. Dallas area shouldn’t have nearly the amount of traffic that it does for the amount of people and space that it has.
soonerfreak@reddit
No one reads the signs anyways. Everytime I'm taking PGBT to DNT someone flies over to the left at the last second from the on ramp. The exit only and changes to the lane strips mean nothing to people.
ZapActions-dower@reddit
The insertions between highway and frontage road are insane. The exit dumps you nearly into the intersection and if you need to turn right you might be zagging across 4 lanes in just a few hundred feet, depending on the width of the frontage road and if there are turn lanes.
SquashInternal3854@reddit
I almost got rear ended bc of this. I had to turn right, then immediately get over 4 lanes to enter the highway. It's insanity.
nihouma@reddit
TxDOT has heard your concern and believes the only way to fix that problem is to add more lanes for you to cross
Delicious_Hand527@reddit
There are only about 2 roads in Dallas proper that actually need to be 6 lanes divided, 1 in Richardson, and 1 in Plano, 1 in Allen (Stacy Road in Allen carries more traffic than any city road in Dallas, including Beltline). I doubt there are any in Irving, maybe 1 in Arlington. Doubt there are any in Ft Worth. The rest are way oversized. Plano is doubling down and creating double turn lanes everywhere! Like the roads aren't dangerous enough.
jovialcommie@reddit
You're describing a stroad, the blight of all DFW infrastructure. When you design your roads as dragstrips, you're encouraging reckless driving.
Maximus-Festivus@reddit
A semi truck shouldn’t be driving on the left lane tailgating a mini-cooper at 80mph, which I see daily on 75. that’s not road design, it’s lack of enforcement.
SadAd3257@reddit
Sounds like the mini-cooper needs to get the f out the way...
PythonPussy@reddit
Coming from Jersey, I used to think the jughandle design was silly until I came here. Allowing drivers to turn left across a multilane highway is insane
NoCodeHarmed@reddit
I am only a year in here, and at first wasn’t able to figure out why people drive like cops don’t exist. Then I realized, they really don’t :-(
razblack@reddit
We need 10 times more highway and patrol officers in this state.
cheesuspotpie@reddit
Start treating reckless driving the same as drunk driving
Any-Championship1495@reddit
Cops only get you on speed when it’s convenient but never see them when rush hour or people are weaving in and out of traffic. Rarely do I see someone pulled over on PGBT or DNT if ever. Useless 🐷
bikerdude214@reddit
DPD needs to step it up. Stop hanging out at SB for the free coffee and get out there and write some tickets.
SailorSlay@reddit
I bet if we had a way to move large groups of ppl in safe and efficient ways there’d be less drivers. If theres less cars then they’ll be fewer accidents.
But idk that’s a new and crazy idea
noncongruent@reddit
The problem is that the metroplex doesn't have single concentrated residential zones and industrial zones. Transit, especially rail, is fairly limited in the sense that most transit trips can't be point to point, but instead involves lots of walking, transferring from one modality to another, etc, during a trip. What would be a 30 minute direct trip in a car can easily turn into an hour or more transit trip, and in many cases transit simply can't complete the trip at all.
For most people the most valuable thing for them is time. If owning a personal vehicle can save someone 5-10 hours a week then they're going to get a car, just like they get a washing machine to save hours of laundry, dishwasher to save time washing dishes, etc. Is it possible to live without a car here? Sure! But it's going to be limiting, there's just no way around that fact, For motivated to live car-free making that sacrifice is a no-brainer, it's easy, but it's not a sacrifice that a lot of other people want to make.
Infamous-Rooster-186@reddit
People around here drive like insane assholes and it had gotten worse the more people that move here. I drive up and down the tollway everyday and it’s insane the number of people that weave, follow too closely, speed or drive like an insane person. Car insurance also gone way up because of all the wrecks. Something needs to be done. More cops/speed traps etc to keep these roads safe bc it really is like the wild Wild West out there.
Upbeat-Natural-7120@reddit
No clue why you're being downvoted. It's absolutely true.
politirob@reddit
The director of Vision Zero, "Ghassan 'Gus' Khankarli, gave a big update on Vision Zero back at the beginning of spring (March 6)
Video link: https://dallastx.new.swagit.com/videos/301704?ts=1649
PDF: https://dallascityhall.com/government/citymanager/Documents/Council%20Materials/Vision%20Zero%202024.pdf
He basically gave the following excuses (I'm paraphrasing):
• He basically argued that it's okay if Dallas has poor Vision Zero outcomes, because the other cities in TX aren't doing well either. Yay mediocrity!
• He dedicated an entire section of his presentation to calling out individual behaviors. e.g. Black men and Hispanic men not wearing seatbelts. This single section was frustrating, because it twisted a problem of civil and engineering design into a "black and brown people problem."
The undertone through this section reeked of "If only those pesky blacks and browns would follow the rules, and we wouldn't all have to sit through any of this Vision Zero bullshit!"
It also reeked of, "We don't really have to take any of this Vision Zero bullshit seriously or fund it in anyway, since it only affects black and brown people."
• He has basically re-directed the entire Vision Zero project into another rubber stamp for general road construction. All of his Vision Zero "progress" amounted to replacing traffic lights and street lights.
Cynicism and personal reactions aside. I feel like the city constantly approaches these problems ALL wrong. They take an approach that encompasses the ENTIRE CITY, all at once. This makes progress glacial and political and lacking any vision.
The city needs to pick ONE small area of one small neighborhood and work wonders. Let it be a beacon of what is possible. People need to see and experience and interact with these kind of changes, so that they can demand those changes in their own neighborhoods. That's how you grow support.
krollAY@reddit
Part of the VZ Plan is creating a High Injury Network (HIN) that identifies where serious crashes have historically occurred. They do have places they are concentrating their efforts. But part of the problem with that is that where crashes have occurred isn’t necessarily where they will occur in the future, so you have to also figure out how to calculate crash risk across your jurisdiction’s entire traffic network to identify locations with similar characteristics but may not have a lot of crashes. Eventually you want to identify proven safety countermeasures that can be installed system wide and targeted countermeasures at HIN locations.
However all of this takes time to plan, line up funding, go through engineering design, and then build the things. The VZ plan was only adopted in what 2021? And we only have crash data for 2023, so it’s hard to see any reductions in that time frame because the plan hasn’t really had time to be put into action.
As for the seat belts issue, the data did show that men and particularly those of color have been dying in crashes while unbuckled, not just in Dallas but the whole region. Maybe it didn’t come across in Gus’s presentation, but what should be the focus here is in getting the message to these groups that buckling up is important and can save their life, even if they’re a passenger. They shouldn’t be getting blame for this, so it’s a mistake if it came across that way.
noncongruent@reddit
Reminds me of that anecdote in WW2 where engineers were deciding where to add armor to planes. It was suggested putting the armor on the parts of planes that were undamaged after returning from missions, on the theory that the damaged areas on returned planes apparently wasn't fatal to the plane, and damage to those areas undamaged on returning planes was.
politirob@reddit
An HIN already exists:
https://dallascityhall.com/departments/transportation/Pages/visionzerodata.aspx
There was definitely a disconnect with the whole seat belt messaging. Principally, his own data shows that pedestrians fatalities are the most common, but he was squirrly in ever directly addressing their safety. Pedestrians are some how supposed to buckle up?
AnonymousAlcoholic2@reddit
The two biggest determinants of a fatality in a MVC are velocity and not using safety gear such as seatbelts.
As an anecdotal example I’ve run MVC’s where people walked away when I thought for sure they’d be dead because they wore a seatbelt, and I’ve run fatalities where if they wore a seatbelt they might’ve had a minor abrasion at worst. The only times I see that seatbelts don’t make a difference is high speed head on collisions like on county roads. But if those were the only fatality accidents these days the number of deaths would be less than 1000.
Objective_Piece_8401@reddit
You obviously put some serious thought into this but I have a couple of points.
First. Just because someone or something disproportionately affects people of color doesn’t make it inherently racist. Black people are more susceptible to heart disease. Does that mean heart disease is racist? I don’t think he was discarding two groups for not wearing their seatbelts. I think the point was if being macho means you can’t wear a seatbelt, the roadway isn’t the issue.
Second. Forget having one shining star project. Start looking at all projects this way and prioritize them by impact to the larger community. Look at each project as how it affects the immediate area and see how those effects radiate. The problem with that is everyone just skips to step two. First see local impacts and give those a heavier weighting. Then see which has a greater effect overall and act accordingly.
Still_Guest2903@reddit
I'm north Dallas, but every time I drive to Dallas I find it so annoying just how many times the lanes start ending on 75, came back from a concert yesterday, had to get over about 6 times in the span of 4 minutes because the lanes kept ending.
SquashInternal3854@reddit
This is another insane design, I honestly can't believe I haven't wrecked yet when the outer lane suddenly ends.
Xyllus@reddit
Hi north Dallas!
jovialfaction@reddit
I wished Google maps had a visual indicator showing which lanes are ending in less than a mile.
Jonesj99@reddit
Start enforcing tickets for not moving right when traffic is clear, and force all parking to be reverse in only. This will decrease accidents massively.
spook008@reddit
Hey guys I have a wild theory… instead of red light and speed cameras, we need better drivers??
jwalsh1208@reddit
Blah blah blah something about CA people moving here blah blah blah
Mutombo_says_NO@reddit
Ban all charger drivers
excaliber110@reddit
Road design is causing these issues. There’s shitty drivers everywhere (LA, Houston), the problem in Dallas is there’s way too many lanes serving way too many purposes (slow, traffic filled lanes merge to fast highways, cars have about 100m to cross 5 lanes to the exit they need to get to or risk having 10 minutes added to their commute because there aren’t any easy ways to get back on, etc) Dallas has poor drivers because of our poor road system
Mr_Stools@reddit
Call me woke, but nobody should be able to own full-sized pickups, SUVs, etc. (which are a significant cause of these higher numbers) without a valid reason, such as farming. Though most of these trucks aren't even practical for work anymore and are simply products of selfishness and vanity.
My father in-law is a farmer and drives a Toyota FJ.
Ill-Rutabaga5125@reddit
people lack discipline using phone that is the biggest cause of accidents. Let’s all do our part.
slrml617@reddit
Some of these are hilarious, so now you want more police presence, the same police that are all bad? Wouldn’t that introduce more chance of brutality and deaths as you claimed?
Make up your mind don’t need the hypocrisy.
PostAnalFrostedTurds@reddit
"Cops can't do their jobs and enforce traffic laws unless we give them absolute impunity to murder us all at will" is such an insane take. Keep it up, homie.
SouthernFrat1848@reddit
Or we could just stop making Fast and Furious movies.
Rolo-CoC@reddit
Texas drivers are the fucking worst. They have zero concerns for anyone else driving on the roads with them.
AnonymousAlcoholic2@reddit
Many people here are forgetting the basic physics that go into FATAL accidents. The two biggest factors for a fatality MVC are high speed and not using a seat belt. While slow drivers can certainly cause a greater number of accidents, especially the elderly, they rarely result in fatalities.
TwoDayOldBurrito@reddit
I blame all the transplants with the “student driver” stickers on their car
zakats@reddit
Obviously. You've got people crammed into cars for hours on highways that induce demand. Humans are fallable even when well-behaved and putting fallable people in control of 6000lbs weapons will always result in someone getting hurt or killed.
Build more rail and rezone the land around it to better utilize it en masse, get actual results. Chasing our tails to keep an asinine amount of highway/lanes is useless.
Iant-Iaur@reddit
Cops ain't doing shit because they don't want to pull people over since everyone and their mom has a gun nowadays.
Automate the enforcement of speed limits, red light running, and school zones - cops don't have to interact with nutjobs and that F350 dually driver who drove 75 on Northwest Highway yesterday afternoon will get a $450 ticket in his mailbox. Win win.
CrunkestTuna@reddit
Shocked I say /s
kon---@reddit
You're all angels behind the wheel. It's only people in other cars that are the problem. You're a textbook commuter, out there slowing down the flow of traffic causing a dangerous situation to develop behind you...angels.
Faster drivers are not the problem. It's the mix of people capable and willing to drive at higher rates sharing the road with people who hit the highways with anxiety happening during their drive and or just can't get their head around the 85th percentile.
Posted limits aren't fully disregarding the 85th percentile. You want to be safe...work on your anxieties and get with the flow of traffic already. Also, fuck sake...know where you are and where you're headed. Too many drivers out there are not aware of anything going on around them causing way too many other drivers to have to compensate and or adjust to yet another slow driver not paying attention, not anticipating and not bothering about anyone's safety.
VirgoVixenTX@reddit
Dallas Express is not a reputable publication.
SandMan83000@reddit
Aire_Filter@reddit
This 👆
Hulk_smashhhhh@reddit
All cars should be limited to 80mph for one. Second, speed cameras should exist.