Escaping the U.S. | TheaterFire

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YuanBaoTW@reddit

And how exactly are you going to obtain residency somewhere "better", and what exactly are you going to do there?

In my more than a decade abroad, I've observed that many of the people who don't do well as expats (or "nomads") are the people who were running away from something, not running to something. The reason is simple: the grass is almost never as green on the other side as you think it will be.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Unhelpful. And why put “better” in quotes when I didn’t use the word in my post? You don’t know me or how much traveling around the world I’ve done. I’m trying to escape my debt, not chase some idea of paradise. I’ve lived abroad before and I’m looking to do it again. Take your bitterness elsewhere.

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YuanBaoTW@reddit

I’m trying to escape my debt

That's mature.

Take your bitterness elsewhere.

The only bitterness I see here is yours.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

K

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VieneEliNvierno@reddit

Ya man your getting a lot of downvotes from people assuming your not taking into account the logistics, like money and the visa/residency situation (which you will eventually need to say long term) but it is possible.

Like I said in my other post, I started off on tourist visas, doing border hops, eventually found a job that sponsored a work visa and then turned the work visa into a residency visa. And now I’m good for 10 years. And when I renew another 5 years and I’ll become a citizen. It’s def possible. This was 8+ years ago, so maybe it’s harder nowadays with so many digital nomads to get a work visa, but a lot of countries have nomad visas now, so if there’s a will, there’s a way.

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HVP2019@reddit

Typically this sub is used for finding ways to legally migrate abroad.

You didn’t provide any information that would be helpful to advise on legal path to any country I am familiar with, except… Ukraine or Russia. There are programs in place for easy legal immigration there. It is just depends who’s side you feel like helping.

AmerExit has pinned post that has very comprehensive list of legal paths for migration that are Available for Americans. You may find something there.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

I’ll look into Russia. Thank you. I’m a big fan of BRICS and not at all proud to be an American.

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HVP2019@reddit

It does sounds like this would be a good fit for you.

The shortage of abled body men (or child bearing women) is acute there.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Good to know. I hear Moscow is beautiful and I quite like the idea of taking my talents to an adversary. Seems like a fitting repayment for what the U.S. has put me through.

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HVP2019@reddit

конешно

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ArbaAndDakarba@reddit

Moving is $$$. If you don't have $50k to dump I wouldn't do it.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

That’s not helpful at all and borders on misinformation. $50k might be more helpful for someone trying to enter the U.S., not the other way around. This sub sucks.

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VieneEliNvierno@reddit

When I was 27 I moved to Peru to teach English and I have been in Latin America ever since. There’s not much money to be made in LatAm teaching English, but you can def live somewhat comfortably (depending on your lifestyle). I spent a few years teaching and then got into tech working from home. Haven’t looked back. I now make more than enough to live very comfortably.

The $50k does border on misinformation, but having $10k would be very helpful. You would need to figure out a visa eventually but the first step is just doing it.

Do you have any savings?

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the information. I do have savings and plan on leaving with as much as I can. Strongly considering Latin America since I speak Spanish. Imagine needing $50k to buy street food lol. I’m loving the downvotes.

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VieneEliNvierno@reddit

It’s def possible. But as others have mentioned it’s not easy and doesn’t happen overnight. I spent a few years teaching English doing 10 month contracts in which they sponsored my visa. I had to leave the country when the contract was over and then come back to reset my days and do the visa again. Unfortunately this time didn’t count for my Residency visa as for the residency visa (at least in my current country) you have to work on the same visa for 5 years uninterrupted. So then I found a new job that sponsored my visa and somehow managed to stay with them for 5 years. Now I’m in a good situation because I have long term residency and can get only online job I want without worrying if they sponsor the visa or not.

But there’s lots of people doing what you’re doing and trying to make it work. First step man is to just buy the flights to wherever you want to go, find a job, and figure it out from there. You can look into nomad visas, studying visas, hell, maybe you even meet wifey in the first month. Crazier shit has happened.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

You’re very confused on what it takes to move to another country…. You need a lot of money to move to other countries, regardless of which country. I think some misunderstand is coming from your mindset, you seem to think other countries want or are even open to immigrants esp American immigrants. Americans are not seen positively outside the USA & no country is begging for them to move. It’s so much hardwork, time, energy, and money to even get a visa that allows you to stay for longer than a few months in another country. They’re not welcoming us Americans with open arms nor do the overwhelming majority of countries have a low barrier to entry.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Wow. It’s like no one read my post. You’re just answering according to the assumptions you have about me. What a waste of bandwidth. I’m confused? Do I know you?

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

Additionally, I notice you reply aggressively to this comment but have ignored/not replied to the comment I posted on the main thread giving you the information you requested and spent time outlining pertinent information. Interesting

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Ok. Thanks for the information in your other post. I came here for help, not to be talked down to.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

I think you’re feeling desperate & getting these comments that are factually explaining why your plan is not viable and the unlikelihood of your plan working, so you feel people are talking down to you. I haven’t really seen that in the comments, more just people being realistic and reality is not the answer you were hoping for so it seems negative. I would check out r/amerexit as it has tons of information pinned & you can look through posts of others. Folks there are highly highly knowledgeable about the process of moving abroad and the laws, implications, and requirements. I’m sorry that this isn’t what you were hoping for. I’d look into debt management program on NFCC website, it’s a federal resource and trusted.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Thanks for the recommendation. Telling me that I need $50k to leave the U.S. is bogus. Telling me that I won’t succeed as an expat because I’m running away from something is bogus. Would you tell someone fleeing a brutal regime that they won’t succeed elsewhere because they’re running from oppression? lol, what a joke.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

You’re welcome, I hope it’s helpful.

They would be seeking asylum, which is very different than just trying to move to another country. It’s not the same situation and the rules are very different. They’re not concerned about affordable healthcare or fast wifi.

Depending on the country, it’s likely it will cost well over $15-20K to do the whole process start to finish. This has been my experience both moving to Europe & moving to South America. And I did it as cheaply as possible & didn’t have to find a job upon arrival, which could mean months of living off savings.

Maybe you didn’t want the Redditer’s opinion, but history shows us that running from one’s problems does not usually work out.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Fair enough. Although running from religious prosecution worked out pretty well for the pilgrims. Not sure what you mean about the whole of history showing us anything.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

Religious persecution is a reason to seek asylum…. History shows us running from our problems doesn’t work, ask any older person you know, look at how it’s worked for notable figures in the past, look on Reddit for stories of how running from your problems doesn’t usually pan out.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

We can agree to disagree on whether some historical examples and posts on Reddit translate to universal truths. Thanks for your input.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

You’re welcome! I hope you read my longer comment on the thread and see how your situation matches up. The reason people aren’t just answering your simple question of where to go is because you haven’t given any information to help them answer, no one country is blanket a good fit for someone who never want to return as all countries require visas and processes to gain residency and citizenship. These are granted based on the immigrants qualifications/meeting the countries requirements, not just you wanting to move somewhere. There’s no way to answer your question without knowing the specifics of your situation & what countries would be willing to let you move there based on their laws.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

I wrote you a long, detailed comment in the main thread breaking down viable pathways to move to another country. I replied to this comment based off the answers you’re giving in other replies. Maybe provide other information if you want more specific advice to your situation?

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GlobalTapeHead@reddit

I just want to caution the OP that if the debt you are running from is significant enough, to the point where it possible criminal charges might be file, your creditor may be able to get your passport revoked through legal channels. For example, if you take out a loan and skip the county so you don’t have to pay it back, that is fraud. This would make it very difficult to do Visa runs across boarders to stay in a foreign country. You want to go somewhere where you can pick up foreign citizenship.

Debt can be enforced and collected across international boarders. It is very difficult and expensive to do, but is possible, usually by winning a default judgment against you in the home jurisdiction, and then additional court judgment in your new host country. But we are usually talking about huge debts that make it worthwhile. I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

I know this and don’t have enough debt with a single creditor to make involving interpol worthwhile. I plan on revoking my citizenship after landing. For an expat sub there are a lot of assumptions and generalizations being made. Living abroad taught me to do less of that. Shame it hasn’t had the same impact on yall.

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DifferentWindow1436@reddit

I don't understand. You mention in several comments you have lived abroad, people are making assumptions...but then you need sort of remedial help type of answers? Which is it?

If you've really lived abroad for years as you claim, you would have much more specific questions, I would think.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

I had one question in my original post: recommendations on where to go if you didn’t plan on coming back. I wasn’t looking for an exit interview or a remedial shpiel.

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Initial-Fee-1420@reddit

Nowhere. You cannot go anywhere without a job or skills.

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DifferentWindow1436@reddit

Ok, so...where have you been? Wouldn't it make sense to return to a place abroad where you have some life experience, some knowledge of the culture and possibly a network?

At the end of the day, it comes down to eligibility.

There are a lot of places you could likely go on a low-paid ESL type of job, particularly if you have a bachelor's degree, but sometimes even without one. You need a job and a visa. It can happen reasonably quickly. Not like, tomorrow. I think I did that inside of 3 months back in the 90s.

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Live-Elderbean@reddit

What is your other citizenship? It's easier to recommend something if we knew. I'm assuming you are not going to make yourself stateless.

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Kosmopolite@reddit

r/Iwantout

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

Thanks. I shouldn’t have posted in this sub. People are assuming I’ve never been to other countries and am dreaming of some romantic expat life. That’s not my situation. It’s life or death for me. Not under the fucking Tuscan sun. No wonder I didn’t get along with other foreigners when I lived abroad for years.

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Kosmopolite@reddit

Perhaps you just didn't express what you needed very well. I certainly didn't see a helpful way to respond based on where you started.

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Sam_Sanders_@reddit

OP never wants to step foot in the USA again but admits that they don't get along with foreigners. Then berates anyone pointing out legal/financial/visa issues with their plan.

Pretty entertaining actually.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

I’m glad you’re entertained. Thank you for your valuable contribution. You’ve really moved the conversation forward.

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Sam_Sanders_@reddit

Well I wasn't talking to you, I was talking to the rest of this sub who had to read your inane post.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

No one had to read or reply to my post. I’m glad you think my situation is inane. Really appreciate your input.

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Auselessbus@reddit

What other citizenships do you have? What job? What makes you a likely candidate for a position overseas?

What research have you done?

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

That’s not what I asked.

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Catahooo@reddit

It's relevant though since residency options for developed countries are:
-investment -descent -skills
-partner/marriage

Without those pathways you are looking at countries like Guatemala, which has neither good healthcare or fast wifi.
Sorry if you don't like these answers, but very few countries are interested in taking in poor people with low demand skills.

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TheFirstMinister@reddit

Other than the US what are the countries where you have an automatic legal right to reside and work?

If you currently don't have a legal right to reside/work in another country, you will need a visa. What visas - employment, family, investor, etc. - are open to you?

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1Angel17@reddit

You need to face the mess you created and get out of debt. I recommend listening to Dave Ramsey and starting there. Moving to another country to escape your obligations is irresponsible. You also need money to move, you can’t just move and everything magically works out. You need to pay for housing, deposits, utilities, groceries, etc.

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spunbob_SHIBA@reddit (OP)

No, I don’t. Thanks but no thanks, boomer.

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

You first need to look into what countries would consider accepting you. There is generally 3 ways to get a visa that allows you to stay more than a few months and to work. If you didn’t know, you cannot even work remotely without a work permit and the overwhelming majority of USA based employers do not allow working internationally. The first type of visa is a work visa, where generally a company in your desired country sponsors (i.e. pays for) your visa to have you work for them. However, companies only usually sponsor foreign employees if they’re very highly skilled & specialized and a majority of countries have rules that these visas are only issued when there is no one else in the country who is qualified for the role or as equally qualified as the foreigner. Another type of work visa is for specific in demand professions that countries have a shortage of qualified workers for, such as doctors or chemical plant operators or therapists or accounts, etc. Usually they require specialized education/certifications/etc.

Another type of visa is an investment visa, which you don’t qualify for based on your post. This requires HUGE financial contribution to the local economy/starting a business to employ locals/etc.

Another type is citizenship by descent. This means you can prove you have a right to citizenship based on a country’s law, which varies largely country to country. Its not as easy as saying you have Irish or Polish heritage, there is stringent and specific rules to qualify, such as a grandparent or parents must have born there and not renounced citizenship, require documents like birth certificates of the ancestor you’re trying to claim citizenship through, etc and many countries have rules on top of these requirements like you must speak the local language proficiently.

The other one is marriage to a citizen, but that’s obviously a lot more complex lol.

is a lot more complex and nuanced than you think most likely. This is just to be able to get there and completely ignores the massive amount of debt you’re trying to dodge. You will have to wait YEARS before you will be even eligible to apply for citizenship after living in a foreign country on a visa generally speaking. Creditors file lawsuits for unpaid debts, which will be a mess because you’ll still be a citizen. You are still required to file U.S. taxes when living abroad, even when holding citizenship/having a visa to stay to another country. I don’t know how much debt you have, but unpaid debt that you never pay is considered income to the IRS & it will further complicate things/get you in tax trouble. Debt/loans are legally binding contracts, so you will still owe that money. Many many people think they’ll never return, but A LOT do because they aren’t happy/can’t afford to live/visa or citizenship process takes too long/etc and it’s not smart to assume you will just never return and have to face this debt. You will likely have default judgments (judge rules in favor of creditors bc you don’t show or respond to summons), an abysmal credit score, no ability to find a place to rent due to credit and no dream of a house or even getting approved for a credit card.

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Additional-Ad-9088@reddit

France, south

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Electronic-Theme-225@reddit

Based on what OP has shared, they have almost no shot at gaining a visa or even PR in France, not to mention citizenship