hilly communications up to 10 milesish?
Posted by kauaihaole@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 42 comments
Aloha,
Trying to research communications if we lose electricity and internet. I would be trying to communicate with others in my group but we are separated by hills. Not mountains, just hills. What does anyone recommend? Looking for something that several of us can purchase to all communicate together. TIA.
CTSwampyankee@reddit
The concept of no electricity or internet takes you to choice And layers. Do you have power? How? Do they?
You have to read the comms FAQ and watch the vids. There’s no easy button on getting 10 miles without An investment of time (knowledge) and money.
Due to curvature of the earth issues you will likely just get 6 miles on flat ground with most cheap things. Under ideal hilltop to hilltop things get better but that requires pre planning to get people to the top so that is generally out.
Lora w some solar can get it done on a steady basis. Generally you need people to have skin in the game, back to that time and money, before you make progress. For people fully in, HF is the answer
featurekreep@reddit
As others have said, if you can find one hilltop that everyone has LOS on you stand a chance with repeaters, but its going to be a learning curve for you to make one.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
Out of curiosity why bother making one? Retivis and midland both sell pre built repeaters, or am i misunderstanding what youre getting at?
featurekreep@reddit
I've honestly never looked into pre-built, I just assumed any one I could buy would either way underperform or be out of my price range.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
They run about 350ish bucks, and being honest here im not sure how it would stack up to something home built.
For some reason i cant just link it but the model number is RT97.
Main reason a pre built one is attractive to me is i get annoyed building electronics not shameing anyone into that i get how it can be part of the hobby, but if i can get an off the shelf option thats adequate for my needs instead of trying to cobble something together i prefer that.
featurekreep@reddit
Well that is both cheaper and far better than I would have expected, thank you!
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
this is the midland one
Like i said im kinda considering getting one, but not sure if i really need it, probably dont know how to use it properly if i did sorta thing.
Its interesting but every day i realize i know just enough about my radios to be a danger to my self and others lol.
TheCarcissist@reddit
Is there a hill that sits highest line of sight? There are a couple of GMRS repeaters you can buy relatively cheap that might do the job. You'd obviously have to rig up a battery bank or something to charge it, but you could probably do it under 2k
EffinBob@reddit
Antennas high up are your friend.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
Depending on the exact nature of the terrain, you will probably need a repeater and two way radios.
Although i suppose if you were truly willing to commit to it field telephones can be used as well, its just going to take 10 miles of wire.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
Haha. Price ten miles of wire these days.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
18 gauge insulated dog fence wire is $90 for 1,000 feet. Ten miles is 52,800 feet, so the cost would be $90 * 52.8 = $4,752. That’s with an earth return circuit.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
You better get the aluminum kind, and even then the resistance losses over 10 miles are going to be a problem, especially with an earth return, which can be unforgiving. I'm not enough of an electrical engineer to calculate losses vs voltage, but my initial guess is that you want to crank up the voltage, like they do with 70v PA systems. And I'd definitely use a heavier gauge.
If anyone has done this I would love to know how it went. When the US military does long cable runs, metal fence wire isn't what they use and I think I know why.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
I mean its possible, like from a technological sense, I mean if we wanna dust off some old FM, theres pyro runners semaphore flags as well.
I kid I kid, back to being serious though.
OP i would need more info about how many locations and people, not everyone needs to have a personal radio but assuming you have 3 locations and 10 people, 3 base stations and probably 5 HTs on one repeater should cover it, however depending exactly on where the repeater is placed and exactly how the terrain is, there is still a chance of a few places having a radio shadow.
dittybopper_05H@reddit
Without infrastructure like a repeater? Either towers at each location, or you can use lower HF NVIS style communications, or ground wave HF. With decent antennas you might even be able to do it with CB antennas, especially SSB capable ones.
The NVIS option is strictly amateur radio though, everyone would need to get a ham radio license.
jjgonz8band@reddit
You could try CB radio with powerful amplifiers, I myself have established communications up to 20 miles with CB using a 500 watt amplifier.
Of course Ham radio will also work though you must become familiar with transceivers, tuners, amplifiers, and antennas
The best website for forecasting what frequencies and time of day to communicate using Ham radio is VOACAP:
https://www.voacap.com/hf/
TheLostExpedition@reddit
Foil balloons, repeaters, pigeons, drones, dogs, bikes, shortwave reflected off a cloudy sky. Satellite phones. Old school phone lines don't require power.
Dapper-Lab-9285@reddit
Old school phone lines had their own power, they even sold little lights you could plug in for emergencies, but if the SHTF then the power to phone lines and towers won't last.
TheLostExpedition@reddit
Oh cool. My mom had an antique crank phone she said the crank charged the lines. I just always took her at her word.
Led_Zeppole_73@reddit
Old school phone lines did indeed need power. No central office battery, no phone.
MrHmuriy@reddit
Install a cheap solar powered Meshtastic node on that hill and forget about it for a long time. Since it will be on a hill, it will have excellent range.
kauaihaole@reddit (OP)
Thanks for all of the responses. Its looks like communicating in my location isnt realistic with a serious outage of services for the most part. At least now i know to plan for that.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Licence free, CB is your best bet but that's going to be pushing it's very hard.
GMRS if and only if you can do it with a single repeater, every family needs a lic 35 bucks 10 years. Even then your nearly guaranteed to be stepping on some other guys repeater as it's very limited number of pairs.
Ham everybody needs a lic with a test. Gear is expensive but 10 miles or far side of panet is the range.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
Honestly if your lucky like i am you have two guys who put gmrs repeaters in that cover the whole valley and arent to picky about the general public using them.
But like i said i got lucky
silasmoeckel@reddit
That's very lucky most of those repeater owners are super protective of family idle repeaters.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
One dude is doing it as a service hes a cool guy, who just wants to play with radios sometimes i just BS with him on my lunch break, guy will talk with anyone about anything.
Other guy is a little more strict on protocol but not in an obnoxious way.
Ive considered getting my own repeater just for the experience of setting one up and maintaining one, but its not really a super critical need.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Locally I have the jackwagon long island preppers/neighborhood watch that think they own every GMRS repeater pair.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
That sucks im not super involved the radio comunity ive been overhearing about a bunch of silly shit going on in georgia like that too.
I kinda ditched one of the local ham clubs for the same behavior, went to a meeting tried to ask questions, and got treated like dirt because i didnt have a licence.
Whatever at least i dont need a mobility scooter to get through my walmart trip.
silasmoeckel@reddit
As a ham I'll apologize for that club it's not typical. Licences are a must but clubs traditionally are a pathway to getting one.
Last 10 years are so the idiots on youtube have been pushing preppers to get baofengs leading to a lot of poor interactions. We can't talk to them but also can't let them use our repeaters. homstudy.org makes the test very easy, finding a testing location (or virtual) easy. and it's 35 bucks for 10 years.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
Its on my list of things to do but you know life and all, and honestly those guys are dicks, them being hams has nothing do with it.
I will say this 98% of the Hams ive asked questions too in other venues were cool as hell and happy to teach, the main issue i run into is differing goals in the hobby and thats not a bad thing.
I just dont care about HF long range coms SDRs etc.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Sounds like a grumpy old men club. I have one in my town but it's like 5 80 year olds bitching.
Apprehensive_Sir_630@reddit
Pretty much it was a drinking club cleverly disguised as a radio club, but then to be fair i only went to one meeting and that was a hot minute ago.
No-Imagination-6981@reddit
how much money can i waste?
someone mentioned https://www.heywhatsthat.com/profiler.html which is a good start.
I'm not sure what scenario you have in mind, but a repeater can be made for <$100 and if you hike that up to a tall hill between you and your friends, it's possible it would work fine (until someone finds your box and steals it). You->repeater->friend and vice versa.
The only real way to find out for sure is to get licensed and get some radios and literally go try it out....move around, get on hills, try a roll up j-pole antenna, a yagi, etc etc.
A couple good hand helds and a few antenna's up as high as you can get and try it, then move to another spot and try again.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
Cell phones keep working, usually, when the power goes out. That varies by region, but unless the power goes out for days and the cel provider can't run generators, it's by far the best option, most places. And celphones aren't tough to recharge from solar. Ham rigs take more power.
At 10 miles in hills, there are no good solutions that aren't expensive and a lot of effort. That's why telephones and then cellphones got invented.
Even a few years ago I'd have said "just get a landline - they're just about failsafe even in power failures." But that's not so easy to arrange anymore.
kauaihaole@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the input. Does anyone know roughly the best range I could expect to get without repeaters and using good quality equipment? Thanks again.
VisualEyez33@reddit
Direct, unobstructed line of sight. So, if that's 50 feet, you get 50 feet.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
Pretty much this. My little MURS handhelds will cover a couple miles in the open, but get into the valleys with a lot of vegetation and range drops.
qbg@reddit
Use the HeyWhatsThat Path Profiler to see what the elevation is like between you and the others and see how bad things really are.
Heck_Spawn@reddit
Coconut wireless?
EternalSage2000@reddit
If you want to communicate to your friends family that you are safe, and there are no mountains between you.
I recommend, A really good luau. The smell should get the point across.
EternalSage2000@reddit
Carrier pigeon. Definitely.
YYCADM21@reddit
10 miles in hill country is a tall order without repeaters, and they will be expensive, quickly. To buy, position and operate; they need power, and you will need a generator, or solar panels and batteries. Ham is ultimately the lower cost option, and it's not without cost and added effort for licencing