What is your fuel rationing plan?
Posted by davidm2232@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 68 comments
I'm trying to get a reasonable plan for how much I should run my generator. How do we know how long an outage may last?
I have 500 gallons of diesel. My generator is rated at .6 gal/hr at full load. My home tends to hover around 25-50% load most of the time. I'm in the process of doing a 4 hour test to see realistically how much fuel it consumes.
Even at .5 gph, that's 1000 hours. That's 40+ days of nonstop running.
So what are everyone's thoughts? Start rationing early on? Run 4 hours in the morning and 4 in the evening? Or run full time until fuel starts getting low?
End goal is a hybrid inverter, decent battery bank, and moderate solar array. This would allow the generator to run at full load for limited times to recharge batteries while using the least amount of fuel. In the summer, it may never need to run.
SebWilms2002@reddit
The answer seems obvious. Run it for as long as you need. Do you need to keep the 150lb of food in your deep freeze from spoiling? Run the generator. Is it 105F out and it's too hot to sleep? Run the generator for AC.
If you have no specific need, your food is shelf stable and the weather is cooperating, it doesn't make much sense to waste your diesel. Run it when you need it. Besides if it's been 15+ days with no power grid, and the neighborhood can hear or smell your generator, I'd imagine lots of people would be asking to borrow some electricity.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
Yeah. I'll definitely need to keep the freezers cold and ac would be nice
But absolutely I'm planning to share power. I want to pick up a commercial ice machine so I can donate/trade ice in addition to power.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Sharing is Caring but if you're the only person with those resources, people can become a problem. Be ready to say No.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
We're a pretty tight community up here. Even during good times, everyone is willing to help everyone. I'm planning for my property to be the center of the community in a disaster. I have a few friends then will be coming here to weather the storm, each with their own skills and resources.
I have a fully functional commercial level garage so I'm sure I'll be busy keeping everyone's atvs, chainsaws, generators, and such going. Not to mention getting the moonshine still set up
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
That's great. Just remember that people change when they start to get desperate or start to think it is "them or me".
Delicious-Response88@reddit
Exactly. All this “sharing “ isn’t a great idea People are nice until they aren’t. People are also greedy So if you have all this extra to give they’ll just come and take it all because why not. They see you as weak. And in a grid down situation there is no law. A lot of people have unrealistic expectations of a real long term shtf situation but they’ll learn the hard way lol
SubstantialAbility17@reddit
Get a large battery storage system with an inverter. Just with charging the battery system, you could go a little over a year on that amount of fuel at that consumption rate
ForwardPlantain2830@reddit
I did a 24hr run test to get my average use. Night I'd very low load vs day time. I figured a gallon a hour to give myself cushion with my diesel. I plan that I would only shutoff if it was a major catastrophe and refuel would look impossible. Other wise, I bought it for comfort, I'm gonna sit in comfort. Others will show up to enjoy it so it will just run. Hrs on a diesel are nothing.
LastEntertainment684@reddit
First, do you have any medical equipment that requires constant power? That’s always the first concern with electric power.
Second, do you have a sump pump or septic pump that needs constant power to ensure your house doesn’t turn into a toxic swamp?
Third, USDA says food in a fridge is good for 4 hours without power. So if you alternate 4 on/4off that’s 12 hours of run time a day. In a half full freezer you’re good for 24 hours, so you can alternate days.
If you don’t have to refrigerate/freeze food then it comes down to whatever else you want or need to power.
During Hurricane Sandy I found myself running the generator around 8 hours a day which amounted to about a 40 liter jerry can of fuel a day. After 19 days I had burned through about 125 gallons of gas.
After that I picked up a smaller more efficient dual-fuel inverter generator to run when I don’t need the full 240v behemoth. It will run about the same amount of time on 1 gallon.
Since then I’ve gone to solar on the small stuff and just use the bigger generator when necessary.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
Only critical things are the fridges and freezer. I have looked into smaller generators but I wasn't super impressed with their fuel consumption ratings. Possibly they would be better in real world use?
vlad1492@reddit
Not really. As I understand it small generators miss out on a lot of conserved inertia and combustion heat vs. exhaust differential. Generally bigger is better for fuel-to-kwh IF you can make use of it running at full load. Low load spends a lot of energy moving weight around for less effect.
I love my little Honda for quiet, compact and portable battery charging through a quality inverter/charger.
But if the power was going to be out a long while I'd try to organize my loads and recharging to do it all in a narrow time window by running the 13kw generator at full. Something like 30% more kwh per gallon according to my maths as I recall.
Consider adding some stationary ground-mount panels near to your RV pad. With surplus power there you might be able to load shift at minimal cash outlay.
LastEntertainment684@reddit
Honestly the reason I bought mine was my neighbor had a small Honda and burned 1/5 of the amount of fuel I did over the same time period.
Granted he was only powering his fridge, internet modem, laptop, and a light but that was all he really needed power wise.
He had a wood stove for heat and boiling water and he was happy and comfortable.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I wish they made a decent diesel inverter generator. But I guess wet stacking is an issue. The solution is a small battery bank that is recharged off the generator
ltpko@reddit
Read about 15 comments and saw a lot of recommending solar. I agree.
Do you have some kind of alert thermometers for your freezers/fridges? Seems like you need to answer the question on how many hours each or your appliances can keep food at an appropriate temperature without power before you can answer any rationing fuel questions.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
They all have temperature monitoring. I've toyed with the idea of setting the generator to auto start once they hit a certain temperature. It would be easy to do
Solar is certainly the goal eventually
ltpko@reddit
That’s great. Now unplug something and see how long it takes to drop x degrees. Use that to gauge your min requirement for rationing.
HeresYourHeart@reddit
For hurricanes, I ration gas just to make sure my AC runs at night and the fridge gets a full 8 hours to run. It stays cool enough without opening it much, but I do keep a few gallons of frozen water in the freezer for thermal mass.
I can charge all my tool batteries in that time too.
True SHTF? I'd abandon cold food as soon as it was consumed and embrace the heat, AC be damned. Save gas for use in an improvised stove or transportation.
I only keep 25 gallons on hand, for reference.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
25 gallons severely limits what you can do. I have 500 gal of diesel and 200 gal of gasoline. I definitely would let the generator run nonstop in any sort of short term storm.
Yugen42@reddit
What's your living situation, what do you want to power? Isn't solar an option?
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I live alone in a rural area. So fridges and freezers, well pump, lighting, security cameras, furnace, heat pump, air Compressor
Solar is the end goal but it's going to be a few years before I can power the whole house. I have a 500w system in my rv thst works well for a small dorm fridge and basic lighting.
Yugen42@reddit
Here's my answer to your original question: Start rationing early since there is just no reason to run everything you just listed. fridge and freezer yes, but asap try to empty your freezer first before you consume your other food then shut it down. Or transfer everything to your better insulated freezer and turn it to low or cycle it to run it as little as possible. I don't know your local climate, but almost certainly you can last for a few weeks with warm clothes and minimal heating or light clothes and no air conditioning. You hardly need any lighting when alone, make sure you have LEDs and flashlights. Air compressor probably doesn't need much power unless you are using it constantly.
You already have that backup system, so now it's "too late" but I do have some concerns. Not saying that this solution is bad, but I would have gone about it more conservatively and definitely with solar from the start and here is why:
Diesel goes bad. You need to add preservatives and even then it won't last forever. That means in the 99.999% of time when you don't need it you are still paying for it while a solar system requires barely any maintenance and if anything pays you. Napkin math: Average fuel cost per gallon in the US 3.30$*500 = 1650$ and from Google I'm seeing various reports with or without stabilizers that Diesel will last about 2 years if stored very well. So you're paying 800$ a year just on maintaining the fuel. It's also not replenishable. If you run out, you're done, no more power for you.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I definitely want to go solar eventually. But the generator was way cheaper. I have maybe $2k in the generator, transfer switch, and wiring.
There really isn't any extra cost to have extra fuel onsite, it's actually a net savings since I can refill in the summer or fall when prices tend to be much lower. No real preservatives needed since the fuel won't ever get older than 2 years or so
lilith_-_-@reddit
I always hear to run it for however long you need it to keep your foods frozen/cold. Obviously don’t open the freezer/fridge when it’s off I guess but I heard someone say 12 on 12 off once but I’d imagine it’s different depending on your equipment
burningbun@reddit
how bout insulate it and run a longer exhaust oruffler?
lilith_-_-@reddit
Yeah I mean that’s the best you can do just make sure it has enough airflow. It won’t be perfect by any means. Just keep it chained down or something too. If op needs a generator longer then 2-3 weeks it will be dangerous to use it at all. Sound reduction or not. They will be a target. One that might face a violent force day or night for the resources.
burningbun@reddit
unless op has a bunker and the 3x50% generators are in the basement.
lilith_-_-@reddit
That would be nice. Cheaper option is a standalone generator building
RumpelFrogskin@reddit
I'm going as solar and battery bank as possible at this point. I've given up on the whole gas/fuel generator concept. They are loud and I could only see needing for refrigeration. I plan on curing anything I can in a grid shutdown I have salt for days.
Also generators are noisy and let others know you have power. I'm in a very suburban area and the generators in the area last ice storm were like a citizen wide sound beacon.
burningbun@reddit
how many years can batteries last. is there a way to keep spare batteries fresh? like only pour acid in when you need to start using them?
what about spare parts for the solar system?
solar are kinda obvious due to how reflective they are.
tyler111762@reddit
Not relying on a non renewable power generation system is a good start for one.
NohPhD@reddit
Don’t run your generator continuously. Run it for and hour in the AM and an hour in the PM. Your main concern should be preservation of food in fridges and freezers. If you have a well, fill water containers. Charge electronic devices. If there are medical devices, run them as necessary. If anything needs to run 24 hours a day, consider a battery pack and inverter for that device.
MadRhetorik@reddit
My advice would be if it’s a natural disaster to just run it. Powers coming back within a month and probably under 2 weeks. If it’s the apocalypse that’s most likely never coming I would ration diesel usage from day one. Run it only when you need it. With 500 gallons of diesel you could go months if not over a year of only running it when you absolutely have to. Everyone’s use case is different and it’s all gonna depend on what you’re doing. If your just running it an hour or two a day for charging devices and running deep freezers then your talking about a very long time.
Specialist_Loan8666@reddit
You live alone in rural? Bro you need people to help you with security. One car full of marauders, Venezuelans , or city folk are cause you a BIG headache if they try and off ya and take your property for themselves
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
If there was ever a big disaster, there are a few people that would be moving onto the property. Plus my neighbors and I are well armed
Specialist_Loan8666@reddit
Ok excellent. Thought you meant alone in the middle of nowhere 👍🏼👍🏼
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
Not super isolated. My neighbors are like 1/8th mile away.
Specialist_Loan8666@reddit
👍🏼👍🏼👊🏼
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
If you’re in the US your power provider should have a website that reports outages and give an ETA for restoration. I’d start with that. Mine sends out text alerts automatically. If cellular and WiFi are down they should have a number you can call from a land line. If landlines are also out you now know it’s probably not gonna be a short outage.
The ideal setup would be a battery power supply with solar charging along with a gas generator. I would think use the power supply in the daytime while it can be solar charged and save the generator if that runs out or at night. Mostly I’d think you’d be using power for refrigerator/freezer and keeping devices charged.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I do check the estimates for short outages. But even with 4-8 hour outages have wildly inaccurate restoration times. I can't imagine they would even have a realistic estimate during a long term outage.
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
Right but generally they have a decent idea whether is going to be less than 24 hours, more than 24 hours, a week, etc. That was the case during Sandy in NYC. They told people if it was going to be more than a day or two so they could plan accordingly.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
Im.not really worried about a week long outage. My concern is information is going to be hard to come by after a week or 2.
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
You’re missing the point. They will know if it’s going to be more than a week At that point start rationing.
Environmental_Art852@reddit
I wish I was in your family. My hubby says enough with the water.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
It depends on the situation I think.
Power goes out because of the average grid issues? Just run it.
Natural Disaster, like a Hurricane, takes out your area? Run it normal for a week and then start to conserve as you are given updates to your situation.
A true SHTF situation? Conserve from day one.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I suppose that's where long range comms come into play. Part of my question is how do you know what happened
n3wb33Farm3r@reddit
Power goes out all the time. If your am/fm battery powered radio doesn't pick up anything you've entered the SHTF situation. Only run when you have to.
TheSensiblePrepper@reddit
Again, it depends. I am going in order of the situation I gave previously.
Situation 1, you can look online with your mobile device at your Electric Company's website or Power Outage.us to determine that.
Situation 2, would be information provided via Over-the-Air TV stations and Radio Stations for updates.
Situation 3, means things like listening in on Ham Radio and maybe even Shortwave.
stephenph@reddit
Situation 3 you also might initially get updates via media or even internet ... At least enough to get an idea of what happened. Also other events, like a bad storm , an electromagnetic storm, even a nuclear war scenario you will probably at least have enough warning to know what is happening
ThisIsAbuse@reddit
ask you neighbors or call city hall manager if you have not lived in the area for long.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I've been here for years. Most of our outages are only a few hours. But in the 90s, a good portion of the state was out for over a month from a massive ice storm. We lose internet about 4 hours after the power and no cell service. Starlink is another thing I'm looking into.
The-Pollinator@reddit
Each person gets ten M&M's per day.
vba7@reddit
Start rationing early on
Eredani@reddit
I don't think you are really interested in any one else's fuel rationing plans when you just casually mention you can run your generator for 40 days.
But ok, I'll play along. I have a robust Bluetti solar generator that can keep the fridge running, basic lights on, cook food, and recharge USB devices indefinitely.
I also have a small inverter generator to top off the batteries as needed. 60 pounds of propane, 20 gallons of gasoline, plus whatever I can siphon out of cars. Also, have a backup Jackery solar generator.
As for your situation... doesn't matter how you ration it.
Just like any consumable (beans, bullets, bandages, batteries), your fuel will run out eventually if the emergency lasts long enough. If things aren't under control in 40 days, then it's a new normal, and there will be no electricity. Even sollar panels and batteries will fail at some point.
I mean, what are we trying to do? How much is enough?
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I don't know how much is enough. Given all the talk about cyber attacks on the grid and the potential to be out of power for a year or longer, it has me concerned. 40 days of fuel is nothing in that scenario
Eredani@reddit
Go solar. Infinite fuel as long as the sun still shines.
But if it's nuclear winter, then pretty much game over unless you are in New Zealand.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
That's the eventual goal but it's certainly not cheap. At least $10k to do what I want it to. My small setup could probably keep one freezer cold in good sun
Eredani@reddit
My Bluetti setup was $9000... plus $2000 for faraday bags.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
I'm looking at $5k for a hybrid inverter and at least another $2k for batteries. That doesn't even touch panels.
Quirky-Yak8073@reddit
My goal is to use solar first and then use generator as a backup only to charge solar batteries and other things while it’s charging them.
milspecspud@reddit
I have a small generator and only keep 15 gallons on hand. Its enough to keep my refrigerator running intermittently and charge my battery operated necessities. By the time I run out of fuel I'll probably be out of refrigerated food. For me a generator is a stop gap for power outages and hurricanes.
Im looking into adding a solar set up to charge my electronics that would be useful such as my radios, tools, flashlights, fans.
macnof@reddit
Just remember that diesel doesn't last long in storage, between 6 to 12 months in storage on average before it'll cause trouble for many modern generators.
In underground storage you can expect 5 years of storage, and up to ten if you're lucky.
And remember, it has to be marine diesel if you want it to last long, as most diesel sold to consumers contains some bio oils and additives that lessens the environmental impact but also causes a shorter shelf life.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
It's in my basement. My understanding is that as long as it's filtered and water is kept out, it will last a good long while.
I'm running a military generator so ideally it's a bit more robust than most. It's certainly better than the cheap Chinese diesels.
macnof@reddit
Heated basement? Temperature fluctuations are one of the things that'll ruin diesel and high temperature in general will let microbes thrive in it.
What you'll experience is a reduction of energy in the diesel at first, until the clumps etc. get so big that they'll start clogging filters etc. You might have 40 days of diesel when it's new, but a couple of years down the line, you might have only 20.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
Basement stays around 60 all year. I have plenty of extra filters for my gas (diesel) pump. So I can fuel polish of needed. I figure I'll run out of fuel long before it goes bad even with conservation.
macnof@reddit
Sounds like you have it decently planned out, just remember to replace the diesel once in a while.
I replace my storage by using it in my tractors.
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
If I'm not burning wood, I burn over 100 gallons of diesel per month in the winter. So fuel gets cycled regularly
AdministrationOk1083@reddit
If you're worried about freezers and the like in a true shtf event the best bet is likely solar. You can lie and say it's grid tied and down when people notice you have panels, no noise, no fuel reserves to worry about
davidm2232@reddit (OP)
That's the plan. I need a new roof on the garage and a spare $10k to get that done. I may start on it next summer.