German warships to cross Taiwan Strait for first time in 22 years, defying Beijing’s warnings
Posted by chromazgympartner@reddit | PrepperIntel | View on Reddit | 88 comments
- Event: German warships to pass through the Taiwan Strait
- Timing: Middle of September 2024
- Significance: First German naval vessels to cross the Strait in 22 years
- Beijing's Response:
- Beijing has condemned the move, arguing it undermines regional peace and stability
- China claims sovereignty over Taiwan and the Taiwan Strait, and asserts jurisdiction over the waterway
- Germany’s Stance:
- Germany views the passage as routine and part of a commitment to international maritime norms
- The German defense ministry declined to comment further
- International Context:
- Other Western nations, including the U.S. and Canada, have recently navigated the Strait
- The Taiwan Strait is a crucial trade route, with about half of global container ships passing through it
- German Naval Exercises:
- The two German warships are involved in joint exercises with forces from France, Indonesia, Italy, Japan, Malaysia, Singapore, the Philippines, and the U.S.
- Strategic Implications:
- The passage reflects broader Western efforts to assert freedom of navigation and respond to China's expanding territorial claims
- Rear Admiral Axel Schulz stated the passage demonstrates commitment to a rules-based international order and peaceful resolution of conflicts
AdditionalAd9794@reddit
How much of it is China being big whiny babies and how much of it is us poking the bear... Or arecwe poking a big whiny baby?
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
Take a moment to look at all the metrics China is currently beating us in (a metric fuck ton) and you tell me if we're poking a bear or not.
waffle_fries4free@reddit
Like what??
Quigonjinn12@reddit
All these downvotes when you’re objectively correct. They’re just scared to see it.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
They won't have a choice before too long
Quigonjinn12@reddit
I’ve been saying this for a while now. China is advancing way past us because they’re not doing this stupid culture war bullshit. Not to mention they teach their children way better than we do and feed their people way better than we do.
Rooooben@reddit
https://www.globalfirepower.com/countries-listing.php
We’re still the bear
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
Do you think wars are won with firepower alone? Where do you think we fall in terms of logistics like manufacturing power, turn around times for sunk fleets, etc? There's a lot more to it than "we have bigger guns" (and not by much, judging by your very own metric. Hell we are struggling to beat Russia in a proxy war that they are DIRECTLY FIGHTING)
itsdietz@reddit
We're not struggling to beat Russia. Ukraine is struggling and the only thing holding them back is manpower. Russia is nothing. China is almost nothing. There is no military threat in the world that can take on the US and NATO. We would easily achieve air superiority in any war. We would steam roll any ground force after that. We are vastly technologically superior and more experienced.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
I think if there is a hot war between China and the US we would all be so beyond fucked because both countries have technology and science that you and I will never, ever be aware of which would only be utilized when absolutely necessary. The iron beam will look like a child's toy in comparison to what both countries got under the hood.
ApostrophesForDays@reddit
China has to resort to stealing to even begin catching up.
SparseSpartan@reddit
I mean to be fair here, that's a smart strategy. Someone else pays to develop it, you steal it and cut costs. I hope (and am sure) we're trying to steal any good military tech they have. Hopefully not of it ever gets used in a hot war.
ApostrophesForDays@reddit
In many ways, it is smart; yes. It hardly fosters an environment of creativity however; a trait necessary in the endeavor of making advancements. If all my efforts are focused on stealing and copying with cheaper parts, I'll be good at making terrible products. I'll have near-zero ability to actually improve upon it or come up with new ideas.
SparseSpartan@reddit
Theft alone isn't enough, fully agreed.
China's economy as a whole seems to have fallen into a similar trap. Lots of in and of itself competent copying, emulation, and minor improvements. Not a whole lot of groundbreaking innovation, however.
ApostrophesForDays@reddit
I do believe it's a problem China could resolve. After all, America in its infancy had to rely on similar tactics to catch up; and it managed to become a big innovator in this day and age. China needs to do better in fostering a good environment for that; I don't think it's an impossibility exactly.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
That is such a meaningless and useless comment though. How do you know that these “wonderweapons” exist? What the fuck is an “iron beam”? I think they use steel these days though. It just doesn’t make sense that any weapon systems exist of the like that you are describing. It just doesn’t compute with any available evidence. It actually just sounds like you’re making shit up.
SparseSpartan@reddit
Eh, in this case if you're going to call someone out for a specific thing like Iron Beam, Google it. It's an anti rocket system Israel has been working on.
I imagine both China and USA have tricks up their sleeve. I'd be surprised if China has more but we shouldn't count then out. Hopefully the world never finds out.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
There is science that has not been shared with the public, and if these people don't want to believe it, they can direct their few braincells they have towards the secret colleges run during the Manhattan Project.
What has been shown to us are all toys.
SparseSpartan@reddit
yeah I do agree fully there. Whatever we the public see, I feel confident our best cutting edge stuff is several years ahead, and with what that means in tech right now, several years can be massive.
Ditto for China.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
Idk if you watched the presidential debate, but Trump mentioned Russia having laser weapons of their own and hinted at a "particularly nasty" (paraphrase) weapon he didn't want to dicuss further.
WebAccomplished9428@reddit
At this point, consider that life-changing, world-saving technology is being withheld from us. Zero point energy has been understood for many years now. Our best technology is only decades ahead, and not centuries, because it is being held back for the purpose of control.
We are about to witness a renessaince the likes of which have not been seen since the French bourgeois revolted against the catholic church in order to break science free from it's dogma, catapulting us into the industrial revolution. It only sounds dramatic because it really fucking is.
itsdietz@reddit
The difference between what we have under the hood and China has under the hood is they're usually lying and don't have anything. The US usually is telling the truth and hiding our technology's true potential
Basket_cased@reddit
You need to look up gray war tactics and you will see there are many facets of war besides shooting. We are currently already at war with Russia and China it’s just not the shooting type…yet
steelersfan1020@reddit
The fact that Russia is DIRECTLY FIGHTING while US is only fighting by proxy would make it less embarrassing for the US, not more embarrassing??
Also the US is not losing.
Wonderful-Impact5121@reddit
In terms of military logistics?
I’m by no means saying it’s a perfect situation for Americans, there should always be a healthy doubt and scrutiny…
But understanding that logistics win wars has been at the heart of US military doctrine for damn near a century in a very blatant and intentional way.
It’s literally a key component of US military tactics from man to man firefights all the way to long range bombing in a documented guiding core tenant.
The US would have to decline substantially before letting that military logistics system fall apart or be unable to ramp up immediately if needed.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
The reason why the United States can fight two wars against near peer adversaries on opposite sides of the world and win both is because no one, and I mean NO ONE, does logistics like the US military. No other military has the cargo transport infrastructure, air refueling, maritime shipping and organisation to compete with the US. Oh, China has started using pallets? Big fucking deal, Uncle Sam has been doing that for decades. Oh you have 10 new air refuelers? The USAF has OVER 400. You have a small handful of AWACS aircraft? How cute, the US has more than 20. And I havnt even added in the extras from all the NATO allies. It might sound cool to talk up the chances of China and Russia in a conventional war, but look at the fucking numbers. They don’t stand a chance.
Rooooben@reddit
lol we arent even trying in Ukraine, we are just using the war to increase our weapon manufacturer profits for now. We have been LIMITING HOW UKRAINE CAN USE THEM for example.
China has a lot of money, and control over several Asian and African countries, but we far outstrip their wealth, our own energy production (we produce double the oil for example) and weapons. We control the tech sector. We have most of the money and corporations (look at the top 10 companies in the world. What are we, 8 in the USA, then 1 in Saudi, and one in Taiwan).
In a war, they have the numbers, but we have the capability.
Patriarch_Sergius@reddit
We are struggling in Ukraine on purpose.. how else are the arms manufacturers supposed to make their cake?
chamonixantiques@reddit
But I’ve been told that China is going to collapse any day now for the last 40 years.
Basket_cased@reddit
I’ve been told the housing market in China would crash everyday for the last 40 years and it has been now for over a year…might be the start
chamonixantiques@reddit
Hold your breath and let me know.
Basket_cased@reddit
May not need to hold my breath very long. Over 20% youth unemployment and new requirements for raising the retirement age don’t bode well for social unrest. Not to mention the 996 work culture, deflation due to dropping factory gate prices making it harder to run a profitable business or get a raise, deplorable numbers for birth rate, the ever growing burden of the working class for elder care. The lack of domestic consumption in the Chinese market, the growing resentment and pushback from other countries to accept Chinese dumping of solar panels, wind mills, ev’s…Lots of people making a good case for this being the CCPs last decade
chamonixantiques@reddit
The said the same thing a decade ago. And the decade before that. And the one before that. But, yeah, this time they’re right, I’m sure.
Unusual-Tank-8519@reddit
Please, go to r/collapse to see who is colapsing.
DankesObama@reddit
Bots gonna bot
daviddjg0033@reddit
Adjective-noun-number
Unusual-Tank-8519@reddit
A hurricane of your own making is in your direction today.
Check NOAA, Francine is taking care of you, gringo :)
Quedaste loco gringo XD
chamonixantiques@reddit
Yeah, it was joke. All these “China/russia collapsing” articles reek of desperation. Every accusation a confession.
Unusual-Tank-8519@reddit
This my friend, this, the 'mericans are desperate... and a huge hurricane goes in their direction, literaly XDXDXD
FUCK GRINGOLANDIA!
Skull_Mulcher@reddit
In Alone, the survival show? wtf are you trying to say?
TotalRecallsABitch@reddit
Were beating China on oil....and in third place is Canada. I think north America is doing really well.
Desperate_Nothing152@reddit
Say metric again
Status-Carpenter-435@reddit
America went into a a literal high level panic over a stray balloon. I'm not sure you're in any position to poke fun
johnthebold2@reddit
No one panicked about a balloon. You just watch too much TV
Status-Carpenter-435@reddit
I don't have a TV. Cool story though
Upset-Diamond2857@reddit
A little ways from home aren’t they
RoyalZeal@reddit
If this were China sailing up and down the coast of California you know damn well how the US government would react. This is a dangerous provocation, and nothing good will come of it. Like it or not, that strait is their territory, end of story.
Super_Bag_4863@reddit
It’s weird how level headed most of the people are in this sub until it’s about geopolitics. China should not be undermined as well as the US, they’re both major powers and if anything china is the only country right now that has the ability to challenge american hegemony.
Civil_Abalone_1288@reddit
It's not undermining China to pass through territory that isn't theirs.
Super_Bag_4863@reddit
Taiwan has been historically china longer than the US has been the US.
AffectedRipples@reddit
The ROC and the PRC are 2 separate entities though.
Civil_Abalone_1288@reddit
cool 👍
Super_Bag_4863@reddit
That’s a total non response if i’ve ever heard one.
1stAtlantianrefugee@reddit
I feel like we're gonna see a major ship getting hit with a hypersonic soon. In the age of hypersonic missiles, I don't see how the US is gonna be able to ferry men across the pond like in WW2.
AffectedRipples@reddit
There has been hypersonic missiles since 1949. Not much has really changed beside the ability to counter them.
dgradius@reddit
This was a much bigger deal but got virtually no attention at the time:
https://www.asahi.com/sp/ajw/articles/15341677
DankesObama@reddit
Prep for r/chinawarns ?
sploaded@reddit
WAGT ARE THE GERMANS COOKING THIS TIME🗣🔥⁉️❗️❗️
SBTreeLobster@reddit
German cooking is the wurst
GyattScratchFever@reddit
So is the world just going to tolerate another German military offensive? Humanity is just fucking ridiculous
davidmartin1357@reddit
At least they’re on the right side of history this time 🤷♀️
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Regarding which side of history they're on, it's not that simple. Yes, saying we don't want Taiwan invaded is the right course. However, U.S conduct as global shipping lane police is reprehensible, and there are obviously strategic struggles that'd make Thucydides shit himself going on here. How involved should Germany be? It's not for me to answer, but at the end of the day this is a struggle between the U.S and China. That obviously informs the German decision to sail there.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Maybe PLA Navy shouldn't ram and cut off ships.
Maybe China should act like adults when it comes to the lives of others instead of being petulant children in the bathtub...
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Sure, I'm not saying they're model citizens at all. I'm referring to global geopolitical power struggle though. Also, the manner in which China is rising isn't happening in a vacuum. In any Thucydides trap we have both sides behaving poorly and using neighbours as fodder. It's a feature. My point is that in order to weigh in on this, Germany is getting into bed with a country much worse than cmaChina in terms of their record thus far.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
They're rising so fast they don't know how to behave.
Like a child who found his dad's gun, wielding power they have no business welding, while their tofu dreg rise to power is meaningless in the grand scheme of things.
India will over take China eventually and behave better.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I agree with some of that actually, and I'm actually afraid of China. However, my point was that in responding to which side of history Germany is on here, falling in with the U.S is an own goal.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Germany is allow to sail into international waters, China doesn't overrule maritime law just because they throw a bitch-fit over it and say the Taiwan strait isn't international waters.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
And also, this law you're alluding to, the U.S refuses to recognise it while pushing its Allies to fall in with their policy in the name of it.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Cool cool...
China didn't refuse to recognize it yet is the one abusing it.
Try and deflect again...
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I'm not deflecting, we're just talking past eachother. I'm spot lighting one side, you the other one. That's fine. All I'm saying is there is a great power struggle going on here and Germany is joining in well outside of its sphere. Is that the right side of history to do this with the U.S of all countries? I'm not saying anything about China by saying that. Infact, fuck China, and fuck Xi and his bunch of commie arseholes.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Clearly it is if it means they're standing up for the little guy on the other side of the world against an aggressive communist dictatorship trying to impose it's will on another country.
If anything it shows Germany learned a lot from WW2 whereas China forgot what Japan did to it.
Your Chi-com narrative is transparent bucko...
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Now you're being silly.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Now you're being dismissive as if you have any authority.
You don't.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Look what's happening to your comments. You'll be calling me names and swearing at me soon. I think we should see other people.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
Of course they can but let's not pretend we don't know what's going on here. The U.S also requests my country do the same and also make moves to project power into Asia to counter China in the name of alliance management.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Or...
China is threatening to invade Taiwan after decades of saying the entire country doesn't exist and the international world is telling China to get fucked.
Your Chi-com propaganda is worthless here, bud.
You flat out say Germany is allowed then proceed to cry that they're doing exactly what they're allowed and the only reason you're complaining is because it ruins the idea of Chinese expansion.
Just because a country is "improving" doesn't mean they are given carte blanche.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
I don't know what rock you live under but this happens all the time.
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Don't care.
Get through the US and German naval forces if you want Taiwan, until then stop crying about it, you look weak as fuck.
diedlikeCambyses@reddit
?
Practical_Law_7002@reddit
Pretty simple concept, you want Taiwan, gotta go through all the countries standing on their side.
Brigadier_Badger@reddit
I feel you might have misunderstood this entirely
Mineizmine@reddit
China is foolish 4 this build out ur infrastructure 2 Russia which can supply most of ur needs begin 2 disinvest from Taiwan n trying 2 substitute purchasing from western companies places like Australia shud only get purchases if u can’t get it from Russia r Mongolia but allowing this pressure point 2 be exploited by da west n u complaining is lame
Strange_Lady_Jane@reddit
Can't decide if it's been 22 years, or if it's been a routine, normal thing.
Mr_E_Monkey@reddit
It's a routine passage for ships in general, just the first time in a while that a German ship has made the passage.
Strange_Lady_Jane@reddit
Thanks for clarifying. This makes more sense.
Mr_E_Monkey@reddit
It's the only way to read it that makes any sense to me. The article says:
...so in that regard, it's pretty much a routine passage. Incidentally, most of the merchant traffic that sails to and from China also passes through the Strait of Malacca, in Malaysia. If you see any major naval fleet operations taking place there, there's a really good chance of things heating up with China. It's a major choke point for oil and other goods.
irrision@reddit
The US does it many times a year as do other countries that oppose Chinas illegal claims (per international court ruling) on the straight.
Unusual-Tank-8519@reddit
Feels like the west is collapsing big time... first Ukraine, next the USA, and finally, the mother of all our problems, fkn OTAN :D
"Perro que ladra no muerde" :)