What!? You're telling me if I get my commercial cert I can't charge my friend for even a one time flight somewhere?
Posted by KeyOfGSharp@reddit | flying | View on Reddit | 142 comments
More of a rant than anything. This is only a dumb ignorant pilot, bothering to learn is all.
JUST started my commercial ground training and decided to see what all the common carriage, holding out, and charter fuss was about.
I thought that with the commercials certificate, that I could at least stop paying my pro rata share in the rental plane I normally fly. Without needing whatever this private charter certificate or whatever. I'm not claiming to be an airline.
I know it's going to happen. I'm going to have a couple friends ask me "Hey can you fly me here? I'll pay you." And I'm gonna have to whip out the FAR/AIM and go on a lecture as to why I can't.
Lord. I hope this doesn't come off as harsh. It's like when I got my first paycheck as a teen. I looked at the stub and was so happy. Then I asked my dad why some money was taken out. "Taxes son....those are taxes"
Same thing here, except I only just started the ground training for commercial lol
graaaaaaaam@reddit
If your friends want to pay you for flights, you can instead go into the pencil-selling business and coincidentally have the price of a pencil be very similar to what a flight might cost.
LossPreventionGuy@reddit
the FAA isn't required to be stupid.
Bruins91JT@reddit
The FAA also can’t prevent you from selling an item to a friend, and sure as hell haven’t reached out anytime I’ve made a marketplace sale
LossPreventionGuy@reddit
plenty of people have gone to prison for such schemes. Juries aren't stupid either.
Commercial-Balance-7@reddit
And yet somehow they pull it off marvelously
cantthinkofaname@reddit
Sure, but never in your favor
Commercial-Balance-7@reddit
That would imply they actually want to benefit the aviation community.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
You know what, screw flying. I'm just gonna sell $600 pencils
jgremlin_@reddit
For the love of all that is holy, please never ever do this. A simple 'no that would be illegal' will suffice. Trust me.
Friends don't let friends lecture friends on the FAR/AIM.
ConflictInside5060@reddit
But some friends will inevitably ask why it’s illegal. There’s always one.
Murph1908@reddit
"There's inspections, maintenance, drug testing, and other factors that separate me flying you around from me taking money to fly you around. "
ConflictInside5060@reddit
Truthfully, she’d be the person I never take. Great gal but with a big heart but a pain PITA when it’s stuff needs explaining. She has mastered the “endless why”. It’s her superpower.
jgremlin_@reddit
"The regulations on it are complex and boring, but the bottom line is it isn't legal."
It ain't rocket surgery.
ConflictInside5060@reddit
You’re absolutely correct. I’m thinking of explaining to my female friend who refuses to understand why pro athletes are paid so much to hit a ball with a stick. That mindset…🙄
pilotjlr@reddit
Sure you can, just have your friend buy an airplane and then hire you as his personal pilot.
Longwaytofall@reddit
Just go buy an operating certificate, write your opspecs, hire a chief pilot, get a drug testing program, and you can charge your friends as much as you want.
Headoutdaplane@reddit
Just a couple clarification s. You can't buy a certificate, you have to buy a company that has the certificate as an asset, the opsoecs need a dedicated plane so usually that is owned or leased by the company. The opspec are already part of the certificate, and if you are single pilot you don't need a chief.
freebard@reddit
Sometimes I wonder if this is one of those things that everyone says is "impossible" but could reasonably be done for a single pilot operation but few people try.
Headoutdaplane@reddit
I did it so it is definitely possible
freebard@reddit
For somebody that already has a plane and can work on the paperwork as time permits what are the biggest hurdles/expenses?
Headoutdaplane@reddit
Lack of FAA personnel. The process is very well lined out in 8900.1, but getting a person that can work with you at a fsdo is........frustrating.
It is faster to buy an existing company with a plane that has already passed compliance.
If you are thinking of costs, think of it this way. The opportunity costs of the business you are missing by not being up and operating are much higher than you will save doing all the bureaucracy yourself. The certificate is usually $25k to n addition to the physical assets of the company, plane, office, fuel tank, spare parts etc. when you are talking 135 ops, $25k isnt really a big number.
It is ridiculous how fast you become comfortable talking about multiple tens of thousands of dollar expenditures in the 135 game. Overhaul a motor? $80k every four years; insurance? $50k a year, 100 hour and annual inspections? $4k to $???k.
They are big numbers but you get used to them. The best analogy I have heard is: standing on the beach at the end of a peninsula, the tide comes in, but instead of water it is money! Then the tide goes out and there goes money. Everyonce in a while you dip a little net into the tide....that, you get to keep!
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Lol it's so simple!
Wonderful-Class-1971@reddit
You could also just take your passengers/friends phone after you land, turn it off then on again. That way they can pay you $400 for tech support, along with the pro rata share of the flight
Thegerbster2@reddit
That's called fraud, but if you're just flying your close friend around, unless you end up in an accident, it's very unlikely the FAA would care and look into it.
Wonderful-Class-1971@reddit
Well obviously op would be a 1099 for a tech support company but that’s a given
Wonderful-Class-1971@reddit
If you sell the plane to your buddy for $1 and buy it back for $1 after the flight you’ll be good. Just keep a bunch of title transfer documents and blank bills of sale in the book with all the Mx logs. /s
countextreme@reddit
If you trust your friend enough to do something like this, you don't really need to involve shenanigans at all. Just set up a fractional ownership program.
Wonderful-Class-1971@reddit
Complicating things makes it fun tho
EnvironmentCrafty710@reddit
One simple trick!
majnuker@reddit
Can you sell Joe the plane for 1 dollar and just maintain it yourself/fly him places? Could you re-transfer ownership after each flight?
Some extra hoops but don't know what the timeline is for transferring ownership between parties. If it's fast, you just resell it to each other before/after each flight.
nascent_aviator@reddit
It involves the FAA. It ain't fast.
majnuker@reddit
Gotcha, was curious!
jet-setting@reddit
It helps if you understand why all the commercial rules exist in the first place.
Take a step back and consider Joe on the street who wants to travel by air somewhere. Joe knows nothing about flying, knows nothing about rules or laws and just wants to get where he’s going.
The FAA doesn’t trust one single person (or company, etc) to have the safety of paying passengers as their best interest. So if the plane and pilot is coming from the same place, an operating certificate is required which forces extra regulation and restrictions designed as layers of safety.
In order to protect Joe, the FAA needs to step in and require a higher standard for the safety of the general public in the form of extra maintenance standards, crew training, drug testing, etc. All of this is wrapped up in a bow with an Operating Certificate or an Air Carrier Certificate.
A commercial license allows you to fly an aircraft under an existing operating certificate. That way Joe is protected by the extra layers of safety.
OR
Joe can buy his own plane, and then he is taking ownership of his own safety in a very tangible way. He monitors the maintenance, pays for the costs, and decides when and where the plane is flying. Your commercial certificate allows you to fly Joes plane for him, because Joe has accepted the burden of safety onto himself.
What you can’t do is fly Joe yourself in your own clapped out 172 with 30 missing bolts and running on 3.5 cylinders. At least, not for payment. You can fly him for free all you want, but once the paying general public starts being involved, then the rules come into play.
DonutDestroyer300@reddit
Let’s be honest, the real reason is because airliners are in kahoot a with the FAA
Due_Knowledge_6518@reddit
Having worked as a pilot for a major airline, when you understand the mountains of regulations and requirements on airlines, they are defiantly NOT in “kahoots” with the FAA
Pheighthe@reddit
Could Joe rent a plane for a weekend and hire me to fly it? Or does he have to own it? Thank you.
jet-setting@reddit
Technically, yes you could. As long as Joe truly independently rents the aircraft and truly independently hires you to fly it. But there’s also not much sense worrying about this since it’s very unlikely for anyone to rent a plane to Joe in the first place if he’s not a pilot.
jemenake@reddit
If I had to boil the regs around this down to its bare essence, it’s “Does Joe know what he’s getting into?”
If he owns a plane he’s asking you to fly, then yes he does. If he’s known you for a long time and knows how careful/careless of a person you are with your plane, then yes he does (and I’ve heard some CFIs opine that this is ok). If he just calls some phone number next to “Sightseeing Flights : $100”, then he does not, so the FAA feels compelled to ensure a minimum expectation of safety.
I liken it to buying a rickety old tour bus and owning a bus-driver license doesn’t allow you to start giving bus tours to unsuspecting tourists.
Pheighthe@reddit
Thanks. I guess it could work if Joe is a pilot, and just doesn’t want to fly himself because he’s got a broken leg/ wants to get his drank on/ wants to take a nap so he’s fresh for Vegas, etc.
Ramrod489@reddit
Yes, but the rental company, their insurance company, and your insurance company may have some strong opinions on the matter.
dmspilot00@reddit
Highly unlikely that an insurance company or FBO rental policy would allow that.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Gonna leave my comment here too. I'm guessing no, but we'll see
dodexahedron@reddit
Yes, if you're not simply using Joe as a proxy to rent the plane for you. Which you probably are, since nobody is going to rent a plane to someone who isn't a pilot or who doesn't provide the pilot who is going to fly it. So in practical terms, no, not really.
But the point of this all is to keep you from running a commercial operation like that for profit, because profit motive has a pretty solid track record of a wildly inverse correlation with regard for the public's welfare.
If you start taking your friends places they want to go and they pay you more than their pro rata share, you're using your commercial privileges and technically need to follow all the rules for that, too. But people do that all the time, even without a CPL, and the FAA isn't interested in that.
They're interested in the guy flying people he doesn't know or care about to places he has no common purpose flying to or perhaps running an unregulated tour business, for example, without the regulatory oversight that comes with an operator certificate, like inspections, random drug testing, more stringent maintenance requirements, etc.
The regs requiring the operator certificate aren't just the FAA needing to pay some paper pushers' salaries or to tra k you so the IRS can find you. Just like any other permit, license, etc, it is a contract between the operator and the public - the government being essentially the attorney in fact for the public - laying out all the wheres, whens, whos, etc involved, making the operation deterministically identifiable, visible, and auditable, and doing all of that as a matter of public record.
Kind_Consideration97@reddit
If I stall the clapped out 172 into the ground, what difference does it make if I fly him for free or charge him for it, he’s dead either way!!
DuelingPushkin@reddit
And what difference does it mean if you get salmonella from a restaurant or from your buddy's barbecue? If I want to start a restaurant I still have to comply with health codes.
The interest is in protecting the public, and if you're flying them for free they're operating on the reasonable assumption that you have at least some level of personal relationship with the individuals
Kind_Consideration97@reddit
I think you nailed it right there. Even the restaurant might clean up to pass a visit from the health inspector, so if either the restaurant or my buddy's house look like a salmonella farm, I'm not eating there.
PrettyNetEngineer@reddit
Wow, amazing explanation!
flyguy60000@reddit
All true. But - if flying Joe in your personal 172 (with 3.5 cylinders) you can split the cost of flying if you are on a trip together. That is allowed by the FARs and can help offset the expense of flying. So, find some friends that want to fly for the $100 hamburger lunch.
LeanUntilBlue@reddit
Make it make sense why the FAA is so keen to protect Joe but will let him step on a Boing with nary a kerfluffle.
jdog7249@reddit
There are approximately 22,000 flights on Boeing commercial aircraft in the US each day. So far this year that is 5,544,000 flights. There have been no fatalities yet in 2024 due to a Boeing commercial airplane.
Just in the last 9 days there have been 16 fatal accidents involving general aviation aircraft reported to the FAA.
OrganicParamedic6606@reddit
Let’s look at the fleet wide number of hours Boeing aircraft operate vs their fatal crash statistics, shall we? Boeing has problems in manufacturing, but they aren’t death traps. It helps nobody to be hysterical
FromTheHangar@reddit
Boeing has a great "relationship" with the FAA, while Joe's friend with a 172 does not ;-)
jet-setting@reddit
The FAA, like all government agencies, is like a golden retriever spotting a squirrel. Except the squirrel is money.
Pic1105@reddit
But…I can provide instruction to Joe in my clapped out 172 that’s missing 30 bolts and has 37,000hrs w/ 100hr and commercial insurance 119 exemption baby! Big Brain Moves
mercermango@reddit
Student pilot here - not sure if you’re still an active CFI but I’d love to have you go thru the ACS with me on zoom and I’ll pay your hourly rate. Just putting it out there. The way you say things makes so much sense lol. My guy is great for stick and rudder and maneuvers and all that but he’s so busy with students and I’ve felt our ground lessons to be .. maybe a tiny bit unproductive
org000h@reddit
A good example of what happens when you circumvent the rules:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2019_English_Channel_Piper_PA-46_crash
old_flying_fart@reddit
From reading that Wikipedia article I learned that a Malibu requires a type rating, and that rating can expire.
FromTheHangar@reddit
The Malibu piston doesn't require a type rating in Europe, it's in the single engine piston (SEP) class. So probably his SEP class rating was expired, which you can consider similar to flying without a valid BFR in the US.
The system is slightly different than the US, because it's liked to the class rating in Europe instead of the BFR being a separate thing. But practically for a PPL flying piston aircraft it's almost the same. You can renew the SEP class rating with a training flight with a CFI every two years, just like a BFR works in the US.
Where things get more different is if you add an IR, we don't have rolling currency for IR. It's valid for 1 year and then you fly a checkride with an examiner to renew for another year.
old_flying_fart@reddit
It may have crashed in the channel, but it was an N-numbered plane. FARs apply to the licensing of the pilot.
FromTheHangar@reddit
EASA requires that the PIC holds a European license if the operator is based in Europe, even if the plane is FAA registered. And it looks like this plane was based in Europe.
They've changed this rule over the years because there were many FAA registered planes permanently based here and EASA wanted more control over them.
You can either have both an FAA and EASA license or fly within the limits of one EASA state using just the local license.
old_flying_fart@reddit
"EASA requires that the PIC holds a European license if the operator is based in Europe, even if the plane is FAA registered. And it looks like this plane was based in Europe."
I learned something new today.
"They've changed this rule over the years..."
Ahhh...that explains it. Haven't revisited those regs since PPL days. I've never flown (myself) over on that side of the pond.
Final-Carpenter-1591@reddit
This is a great answer. All the cfi's and dpe's just grumble about it. I knew there had to be a legit reason. Passenger safety make sense when you put it like this.
TravisJungroth@reddit
Just to add onto this, the closer you are to being “the public”, the more protected you are. Scheduled flights sold to anyone? Literal binders full of regulations. Doing solo aerobatics? Zero training requirements. You don’t even have to wear a parachute. Just do it over an unpopulated area so your airplane doesn’t hit anyone if it craters. Shit, you can build and maintain the thing yourself if you want.
Someone starts paying for flights and they become a customer. That’s more “public” and they’re going to be more protected. If they own the airplane, less public. The FAA is significantly less focused on keeping people from dying in their own airplanes.
HowHardCanItBeReally@reddit
What happens if Joe transfers £200 to just say thanks, who will know, who can find out etc...
Catch_0x16@reddit
Great explanation, up you go.
ManyPandas@reddit
Absolutely spot on.
The FAA holds the privilege of flying the general public for money VERY near and dear to itself.
Similar logic applies for part 125 operating certificates, too. It used to be that you could operate and fly your Boeing 737 under part 91 so long as it wasn’t for hire. Now the FAA mandates that any airplane with a capacity of more than 20 people or payload more than 6,000 pounds (excluding snacks, funnily enough) be operated under a part 125 operating certificate.
Basically, the FAA realizes that operating a large airplane like that is a large undertaking, and an accident or incident involving an airplane of that size implicates an elevated number of occupants and potentially more people on the ground. So the FAA requires operators to certify their operation to show that they’re “doing it right” so to speak, even though nobody is paying for a seat.
PreviousWar6568@reddit
Well they have to figure out he paid first :) nothing like a little under the table pay.
Ok_Skill_2725@reddit
Or just ask who you’re taking money away from… because that’s whose really making the rules ;)
coleary11@reddit
Could someone with a CFI give a friend a couple hours of instruction while flying a XC flight?
Or would the FAA just be like, "come on man, we know what you're doing"
jet-setting@reddit
Yeah there’s actually a letter of interpretation that specifically uses this as an example of “funny…. No.”
Flight instruction doesn’t require an operating certificate because it’s a 119.1 exemption. But a flight can’t be two things at once, so the purpose of the flight is what matters. If the purpose is transportation, you can’t hand-wave it away as flight instruction to get around the rules.
Zorg_Employee@reddit
I wish I had you as a teacher when I was in flight school.
OneSea3243@reddit
This is a good explanation! Will be using for future commercial students I get
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Man, thank you thank you. I know myself and others could use this information! Very well put!
PenHistorical@reddit
This explanation/example really worked for my brain. Thank you.
AdriftSpaceman@reddit
Yeah, this was really well put. Simple and effective.
tallabe@reddit
Common purpose still exists for a commercial pilot. Easiest way to understand that.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Oh? Care to elaborate?
tallabe@reddit
Just because you have a commercial cert it doesn’t mean a lot outside of the ability to get paid. While that sounds great, remember it is essentially “replacing” your PPL. That said, you still have to follow common purpose. Here is a stupid example that would probably never happen but illustrates it better.
Let’s say you are going golfing with friends and they all offer to split. A fourth friend asks if you can stop in Palm Springs and drop him off on your way to Carlsbad and he will pay for the inconvenience.
The same rules apply as they did in ppl. In this case your comm cert is useless.
Party_Presentation24@reddit
How do people get out into the wilderness in Alaska. Places you HAVE to fly into? I thought there were still little single plane charter companies that would fly you out there.
Smooth-Apartment-856@reddit
Those little single plane charter operators have to have a Part 135 certification. Which comes with a lot more regulations on both the pilot and the plane than regular Part 91 GA operations.
Party_Presentation24@reddit
ahhh, thank you, so it's a different certification.
Juic3T0wn@reddit
People say it’s for safety but I’ll put my tinfoil hat on and say what’s really going on. If anyone with a C172 to can carry passengers from place to place for compensation it would put airlines in the grave. It would be cheaper and more convenient to fly this way as operating costs are lower and customers would be able to fly out of smaller airports that could be closer to their home & destination. People say it’s for safety, a load of bologna if you ask me. This law 100% was made to protect the shitty airlines
MystrE@reddit
Cheaper?? You either don't know anything about small aircraft operating expenses or you don't understand math.
Regardless of the financial numbers, small planes also can't fly through moderate or severe weather and just generally do not have the dispatch reliability of professionally-maintained airliners. There's a saying among light aircraft owners: "Time to spare? Go by air." It means, be prepared to sit on the ground waiting for weather to improve or your plane to get fixed. Paying customers usually don't have that kind of patience...they've got a schedule to keep.
wokenupbybacon@reddit
Your sense of the cost of general aviation is a bit... off. It's actually quite difficult to keep the cost of gas for a C172 competitive with a single round-trip economy ticket, and that's ignoring C172 operating costs (both plane maintenance/insurance and pilot fare). I can book a one-way ticket from Philly to Boston for $20 through Frontier, $58 if I want to choose my seat and get a carry-on. Even if you're only consuming 6 gallons/hr in a C172 (you're consuming more than that if you're actually carrying passengers at a decent speed), that's gonna run you over $125 in gas one-way. You'd need to fill all three seats on the 172 to beat out Frontier on this... and that's assuming this flight isn't operating for profit (free pilot), or even for-cost once you factor in insurance and maintenance/wear and tear. Not to mention 6 gallons/hr is simply never happening on a C172 with passengers.
The economies of scale just win out for the airlines over general aviation. The extra people to split the cost of operating and profiting on a full jet is just too much to compete with a small plane that can only split costs between 3 people (and if you can't even get 3 people for your flight, forget the value).
The utility and convenience would certainly be nice, and some people would pay the extra for that. But it wouldn't be cheaper, no; far from it. And cheaper is a bigger factor for most people here than convenience (not to mention airliners are generally safer than GA).
FeatherMeLightly@reddit
Fly friends and family, privately sure.
Start flying anyone scheduled for money, gonna run into some moral issues.
Mobe-E-Duck@reddit
First of all it’s not even technical legal if they choose the destination.
Those friends of mine who are most pleasant to fly with and most generous with paying for meals and rental cars and such are simply the ones I move up on the list of repeat passengers. But I never expect it and I just fly with people I love.
ERJ190@reddit
It’s called FAR 135 Bubba. The FAA is cracking hard on this behavior. If you want charge for flights, get a 135 certificate.
Mispelled-This@reddit
As a rule? No, you can’t.
That said, in practice the FAA doesn’t care about money exchanged between you and family or bona fide friends, even as a PPL. Their mission is to protect “the general public”.
pilotavery@reddit
They generally choose not to enforce it but they reserve the right to if needed, generally they are only trying to do it if you are pushing the boundaries a bit. It's there mostly like you said, to protect public from pilots.
l0stsignal@reddit
The good news is you just passed the oral portion of your commercial check ride. Congrats!
VileInventor@reddit
Study more. Have him rent the plane and then you can.
wayofaway@reddit
That was almost the first decade of my career as a contract pilot.
seattle747@reddit
Ugh. I’ve just started CPL training so this is timely. Thanks OP, this has been insightful.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
I did this for you buddy, good luck!
DeadBruce@reddit
1: buy plane. 2: get Single Pilot 135 certificate with A040 OpSpec. 3: ???? 4: Profit.
That's about the only way you're going to do it without running afoul of the FAR's.
Would you like to know more? Contact your friendly local FSDO.
ecniv_o@reddit
In Canada, we have CAR 401.28, which has certain conditions which need to be fulfilled in order for passengers to reimburse the PPL-holding pilot for a flight:
jet-setting@reddit
Yes there is. A PPL or CPL can share costs for a flight as long as “common purpose” exists. Basically, if the pilot was already going there anyway. If the “purpose” was transportation of passengers, without a common purpose for the pilot to be taking the trip themselves, then no compensation at all is allowed.
If sharing costs, the pilot still needs to pay at least their “pro-rata” share of the costs.
The parts about common purpose are explained and detailed in an advisory circular and a few different legal interpretation letters.
woolykev@reddit
If I understand the EASA rules correctly, then a PPL in Europe lets you split costs for any flight, as long as you're not charging more than the total operating costs (i.e., you're not allowed to make a profit).
Given that a sizeable amount of PPL flights are just for fun anyways and you're not really trying to get from A to B efficiently, how is a "purpose" defined anyways, from the perspective of the FAA? I don't think the EASA rules say anything about common purpose (but I haven't checked in detail).
jet-setting@reddit
https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC_61-142.pdf
Basically, the FAA doesn’t want private pilots operating a transportation service selling seats for just their share of the costs.
old_flying_fart@reddit
Take it from those of us who have been there - this conversation is much easier if you have it now, in advance.
cmmurf@reddit
"I am not an airline or charter or air taxi service."
"If I provide the plane, it makes me one of those, and since I don't have an operating license for any of that, I can't."
"If you provide the plane, I can fly it."
But also, SOP for rentals can say no commercial operations other than flight instruction, and only with company instructors. It's not a regulation, but it is a contract, so if you break the contract, are you insured? shrug
Own-Ice5231@reddit
If you are trying to charge for flights using your own plane, then yeah no.
Dense-Hand-8194@reddit
But what if someone approaches you and you are not advertising or holding out as I understand it?
Own-Ice5231@reddit
The problem is who has operational control of the plane, if it’s your plane then you as a person will be providing the pilot and the plane, which then constitutes illegal carriage.
goestowhat@reddit
Become a CFI & charge them whatever you feel like.
Make it official & have them sit in the left seat (totally optional) & sign their logbook.
jet-setting@reddit
Or, don’t do this because that isn’t allowed. You can’t disguise a transportation flight as flight instruction.
ExtremePast@reddit
If your friends Venmo you some money privately or give you cash for "dinner", the FAA isn't finding out.
goestowhat@reddit
You can split everything 50/50 all the way to Vegas. Plane, food, car rental, etc. but if they throw in Super Bowl tickets…that’s it!!! The FAA will be onto you.
Plastic_Brick_1060@reddit
Right but who has more to lose?
southern-springs@reddit
But if they did they would use that as evidence against you. They consider that as compensation.
Wonderful-Class-1971@reddit
FAA I’ll save you some time and tell you I’m not going to encourage someone to ignore regulations so you can stop reading here.
That being said, you should totally ignore regulations and accept payment.
Guysmiley777@reddit
Fly by night "Bubba's Bait Shop & Charter Flights" ops were getting too many people killed back in the day. In the 1950s the FAA was created to "ensure the safety of the flying public" and the rest is history.
ronerychiver@reddit
Wasn’t that what got buddy holly killed? Inexperienced pilot flying in IMC?
goestowhat@reddit
Pretty close
Conscious_Bid2019@reddit
Because you got certified chief license from college, it does not mean you can turn your own house into restaurant and start business.
Administrative-End27@reddit
I've seen people open a restaurant without going to culinary school and just do fine doing exactly that. I get the point your are trying to make but I don't think the example fits here
Conscious_Bid2019@reddit
I mean you technically don't need any certification from college but my point is you need more than certification for business
iPullCAPS@reddit
FAR’s were made to be broken
KCPilot17@reddit
Which one is true, your comment or flair?
Administrative-End27@reddit
Depends who's askin
iPullCAPS@reddit
It changes day-to-day
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
That's......the spirit?
MustardNoBread@reddit
Plane pilot paid.
You can only pick two.
They could rent the plane and you get paid to fly it. But no one will rent to them
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
That's a fantastic way to put it lol thank you
dodexahedron@reddit
We pylotes sure do love our initialisms, acronyms, and mnemonics, don't we?
Well. Maybe more of a love/hate relationship.
azpilot06@reddit
You can pimp the plane, and you can pimp the pilot, but you cannot pimp both at the same time (without an air carrier certificate).
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the pg-13 explanation lol
FoxtrotWhiskey05@reddit
I think he can rent a plane and hire you as a pilot to fly him separately
MicroACG@reddit
It may be challenging finding an organization that will rent out a plane to a non-pilot when dealing with typical trainer-style aircraft.
FoxtrotWhiskey05@reddit
He would get checked out as the pilot, and the friend would provide the credit card for the block hours. Easy peasy
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
I don't even know enough to know if this is true lol
southern-springs@reddit
Right. The above scenario is legal, but totally uninsurable, so it doesn't exist.
Your friends could buy a plane, have you fly them around in it, and then sell it. They could get insurance for that.
thatTheSenateGuy@reddit
I’m studying for Commercial as well; I feel like the best way to describe to a DPE about exercising your commercial privileges is… you can’t, and build a couple of cases where you can use it.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Yeah just started. Good luck on your journey. I'll keep this in mind
MachoTurnip@reddit
just make sure they pay you in cash
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
winks
MicroACG@reddit
Yeah basically you get a commercial license so that you can get employed by an employer to fly for hire. Self-employment is possible but there are a lot of rules that often make it impractical.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
Honestly, that's a really great way to put it. I've been given a lot of good food and restaurant analogies too that have helped
Baystate411@reddit
You can actually just tell them no, like an adult. No FARAIM needed.
KeyOfGSharp@reddit (OP)
I'm not an adult, I'm a pilot
Baystate411@reddit
And that's why the FAA won't let you run a charter. We've come full circle.
rFlyingTower@reddit
This is a copy of the original post body for posterity:
More of a rant than anything. This is only a dumb ignorant pilot, bothering to learn is all.
JUST started my commercial ground training and decided to see what all the common carriage, holding out, and charter fuss was about.
I thought that with the commercials certificate, that I could at least stop paying my pro rata share in the rental plane I normally fly. Without needing whatever this private charter certificate or whatever. I'm not claiming to be an airline.
I know it's going to happen. I'm going to have a couple friends ask me "Hey can you fly me here? I'll pay you." And I'm gonna have to whip out the FAR/AIM and go on a lecture as to why I can't.
Lord. I hope this doesn't come off as harsh. It's like when I got my first paycheck as a teen. I looked at the stub and was so happy. Then I asked my dad why some money was taken out. "Taxes son....those are taxes"
Same thing here, except I only just started the ground training for commercial lol
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. If you have any questions, please contact the mods of this subreddit.