How to cope with supply chain disruptions if you live in the middle of a concrete jungle?
Posted by RikeMoss456@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 51 comments
I grew up on a farm and recently moved into the city for work.
While I have obviously lived in Urban environments before (I'm not amish), it just hit me today how dependant city folk are on supply chains, and "things being where they should be when they should be" in general. This fact becomes even more apparent during major disasters like Hurricans or Earthquakes that isolate large swathes of a population from electricity and law enforcement - the crime and in some cases, starvation/dehydration, start in a matter of hours.
This revelation may sound like common sense to some of you...but it really floored me. Out on the farm, and in most farming communities, we really wouldnt face ANY of these problems if SHTF. Most farms have their own wells and grow a significant (but not all) of their produce. We have a basic "know how" when it comes to machinery and will service our vehicles ourselves.
So for you city preppers - how do you prepare effectivley when in the middle of a concrete jungle? Is the plan just to prepare supplies for a few days until you leave the city?
Is there any hope of survival WITHIN the city, if the electricity goes offline for an extended period of time, and/or grocery stores are not replenished for a long period of time?
More_Mind6869@reddit
Living in the real jungle in Hawaii, I can say it aint easy for us either when the ships and supplies don't come in.
Yeah we have plenty to eat. Tropical Fruits and vegies ans wild pigs. It's all the other stuff that gets short. TP, propane, screws and bolts, etc.
Somehow the Spam aisles are still full of Spam. Must be left over from ww2. Lol
Crafty-ant-8416@reddit
You guys love your spam.
More_Mind6869@reddit
No. Some guys do... lol I won't touch the stuff.
Dontcancelmeplox@reddit
Cities become a death trap if things get really bad. Once the water goes out it’s game over.
The best and only solution for you is to leave the city.
TimberGhost66@reddit
Just starting with this. I have changed my mind and will “defend in place” here in the burbs. I don’t have it all figured out but here are some thoughts things I’ve already done or plan to do:
Of course food/calories
Water. Upgrading water heater to 75 gallon and adding another 75 gallon unheated pre-tank. Always getting fresh water circulating in. Will add other storage means
Potable water filtration and hand pump, 5 6-gallon jugs
Been setting up camping trailer with 800 watts of solar, 412 amp hours of LiFePo batteries, inverter/ charger. Can charge my tool batteries, run a radio, use the microwave, use the electric water transfer pump, small air compressor, etc
Med supplies
Finally putting in an egress window in basement. Basement will be “home” as heating and cooling become harder.
There’s more on my notes but that’s some of my thinking/planning
And by the way, just where is everyone going to “bug out” to?
Beneficial_Bus5037@reddit
Bug in is the only way to go if you are in an urban or suburban area. Even if you have a bug out location, you better move in that direction before the rest of the surrounding area falls into chaos or government comes in and shutdown entries & exits.
It's smart to make use of the space you already have, whether in your home or in your yard now.
TimberGhost66@reddit
I’m old enough now that I realized I really don’t have a chance of surviving in the boonies. Not saying that people can’t, just highly unlikely for me. I can have a whole ton more of preparedness at home then I would ever be able to take with me on a bug out. And I’ve hunted elk and deer, etc. my entire life, I suffer, no delusions of living off the land either. And there’s only so many squirrels and bunnies to go around. My main concern is water. We have a river in our number of reservoir around, but they’re farther away than a mile. Things could get ugly that way.
Excellent_Coconut_81@reddit
Farms are the first thing to be robbed by armed militia in case of any disaster. When the central government stops working, they quickly become a free supermarket, hotel and in worst case bordell for anyone out there.
And GMO makes things much worse. Genetic modified crops are infertile, so you're depending on big corps delivering you seeds each year. Once economic system collapse, everyone is fried.
For the cities, the news aren't that bad. Bad guys are able to rob more than they can eat. They will be thrilled to sell that food to you. Of course, the price they will demand will be criminal, but there will always be food. In every revolution, war, there were always black marked, and food was always possible to purchase, as long as you have anything for exchange.
For anything better than a civil war, having enough food that requires little or no heat to prepare (nuts can be eaten raw, wheat flatbread can be prepared even on car trunk), enough water, and some basic pills should be sufficient.
It's important to have an appartment with at least a very small balcony, because sewer system won't work, so you'd have to use toilet outside.
xmodemlol@reddit
Is this a strange LARP? Do you really say "city folk"? No you can't self-service a lot of modern farm equipment. Seed and fertilizer, fuel and electricity, all come from living in a society. Modern farms just plant one or one of a few crops, they don't plant their personal food like it was "Little House in the Prairie."
RikeMoss456@reddit (OP)
I promise you, if you walk onto any farm in your area, you will find farmers who have done all kinds of weird shit to their equipment to prevent them from having to go into the shop. Sure, you "can't" self service many modern farm vehicles...but many farmers sure as hell still do (at least in the USA).
And there is a difference between the production grade produce that are sold to producers, and the expansive homestead gardens many many farmers will have. Thats what I was getting at when I said that city folk are much worse off (I feel) if supply chains were to fail. Of course, fuel is a big loss - but you wont find any farming families starving because of that.
UnableFortune@reddit
Out of curiosity, what about the John Deere equipment for instance? I've heard some farmers have successfully managed to hack into their combine harvesters, but if the grid is down, that gets a lot more difficult? Or are most farmers switching to Chinese made equipment to avoid JD tech?
I wouldn't go so far as to call our place a farm. We have 80 acres hay we sell to a small local ranch on a 200 acre property with an ancient 1960s tractor in northern Ontario and I would describe us as a long way from self sufficient. We grow our own food, plenty to hunt and weld but fuel, parts and medications are brought in. We have no means to make our own clothing. Good boots are important through our winters and wear out if a few years. Our twins constantly grow through clothes. Easy enough to get shorts and t-shirts but decent winter gear is a lot harder.
More self sufficient than cities, but just like pp said, fast breakdown vs slow breakdown.
RikeMoss456@reddit (OP)
Your point on John Deere was actually a contentious issue in farming communities across the USA for a while. A grouo of farmers in Nebraska actually lobbied the government to push for change, alongside State Senator Lydia Brasch. We won.
There is a cool doc by vice news that covers it.
UnableFortune@reddit
I heard the farmers won but I also heard JD was just running down the clock on that. What's being done to contend with that?
RikeMoss456@reddit (OP)
I'm not TOO up to date on the whole thing - but basically farmer manufacturers now have to adhere to something called the "right to repair" - which means farmers should not have to buy additional specialized tools from John Deere (and other manufacturers) just because they want to fix their equipment at home.
In reality I'm sure manufacturers have lots of ways of working around this - but that's the law now at least, which came from years and years of lobbying by farmers groups.
UnableFortune@reddit
Well I hope it works out. It sounded like JD would drag out the time it took to fulfill claims until too much time had passed for most farmers to get anything their owed including money and repairs and data for the tech in the equipment.
Eventually we'll have to replace the tractor but so far we just keep on fixing it. Don't think we'll be getting anything from JD.
NickolasBeeigler1448@reddit
Dude read the room...this is Reddit. Its full of nothing but coping city people here. Soon as i started reading your post i knew you were gonna ruffle some feathers here. The most intolerant, close minded people you could ever meet are city people.
Im also really questioning your gangster, id rather be broke af and free in the country, than to have a million dollar salary but live in a city in todays environment.
It might be 3 years, it might be 30, but the U.S. is gonna have an economic collapse as soon as the government has their digital dollar fully ready, and redditors will be touting its merits when they institute the final step of the beast slave system.
armacitis@reddit
The citiots won't like this one either.
reddit1651@reddit
“Here’s why my larp is the correct one, not theirs”
thepeasantlife@reddit
The distribution systems for farmers around me would break in a collapse scenario. That's more a problem for those downstream in the supply chain, though.
None of us would starve for a good long time. We all have gardens, established fruit and nut trees and berry bushes, some sort of livestock, or even shellfish beds. Most of us are experienced with multiple methods of food preservation. A lot of the produce I grow is heirloom, grown from seeds we save every year. I could pretty quickly increase my chicken flock and get a few goats. I irrigate from a spring with a jury-rigged setup.
I'd probably die of something in a collapse scenario, so it's all just academic for me, but it probably won't be from starvation or dehydration.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
| I promise you, if you walk onto any farm in your area, you will find farmers who have done all kinds of weird shit to their equipment to prevent them from having to go into the shop. Sure, you "can't" self service many modern farm vehicles...but many farmers sure as hell still do (at least in the USA).
Sure they do. Using welding gear and gasses, electric welders and other tools that require heavy manufacturing to produce. Which doesn't much happen in rural areas. What happens to your Tig welder when you're out of acetylene and argon?
Lack of fuel will kill a farming community in a matter of months, if not weeks. You can't ship food out, so you can't raise money for seed and supplies. You can't run tractors. You can't ship in fertilizer. Power plants shut down, you can't run pumps for irrigation... in a matter of months you're back to plowing with horses. Yields crash.
The US isn't a simple system, and no part of it is self-reliant. Some parts think they are and God grant they never learn the truth.
Particular-Try5584@reddit
I can back this up. Pretty much every AU farmer has a welding kit, knows a guy who is a fitter/turner, and shimmies and pushes along their machinery. Why load it on a truck and drive it 30km into town when you can just weld it yourself?
And the gardens… why wouldn’t you (or the missus) be growing a bit of this, and some of that… you are already growing a few thousand acres of other stuff.
Pearl-2017@reddit
I'm in "suburban" Houston & a lot of people here have mini farms in their backyards. They definitely plant a few of a whole bunch of different foods. Some people have chickens too but the HOA frowns upon that so we don't talk about it.
xmodemlol@reddit
Me too in my suburban home. But realistically, if the zombies attack and the water turns off, that’s the end of the little farm. Also, suburban farms are fun stuff like tomatoes or lemons, not an acre of sweet potatoes or corn.
Pearl-2017@reddit
Realistically, if zombies attack we're all pretty much screwed anyway, lol
armacitis@reddit
In texas? Normal human beings hardly survive without AC there,shambling corpses would barely make it long enough to be shot. Only californian refugees should be worried in that scenario.
Sea_Childhood1689@reddit
I prefer "townies". You absolutely can self service pretty much all modern farm equipment. John Deere makes it pretty hard but if you're handy with a computer and buy a third party diag cable it's still relatively easy for the end user to fix pretty much anything on their machine (I am a heavy equipment mechanic who specializes in precision farming setups. I would know). My personal farm uses heirloom seeds that reproduce on their own, I range cattle on my fields in the off season to avoid chemical fertilizer, and I have a pretty good sized biodiesel setup as well. If the biodiesel doesn't produce enough, most diesels will run fine on any oil based combustible fluid when cut with ethanol (which can be easily made with a still). I have a large garden, livestock, and I hunt.
I know of at least a dozen other ranches who operate the same or nearly the same (some are even using horse drawn farm equipment still). It may be different back east but there are still a fuck ton of legit homesteads in the rockies that use the supply chain only because its convenient.
armacitis@reddit
The only people who don't believe people say things like "city folk" are the "city folk"
senadraxx@reddit
Building local infrastructure and hydro/community garden shit is part of my prep. If you have access to power, water, light and seeds, you can grow some types of produce.
chasonreddit@reddit
Well, not the answer you are looking for, but it is much like surviving an atomic bomb attack. Don't be there when it happens.
I mean, everyone will have reasons to live in the urban jungle. Entertainment, opportunities, work, etc. And I've lived urban, it's a lot of fun. But that particular cake you don't get to have and eat it too.
mijoelgato@reddit
You’re deluding yourself with a romanticized image of farm life. There’s a reason people learned to band together over the millennia.
RikeMoss456@reddit (OP)
Of course....I'm not suggesting declaring independence from the human race. But the whole point of "prepping" is to prepare for those few brief moments when the "herd" can no longer ensure your safety/wellbeing, right?
the300bros@reddit
Of course you need emergency food & water. Most modern city dwellings are going to be unlivable without a/c in the summer or some kind of heat in the winter. There are special indoor flame powered heaters you could use that are safe but that’s very short term. Longer term it wouldn’t be safe to be in a building full of people lighting fires. The suburbs are better than the city. As in you could be there longer, depending on details. Where I live in a suburban situation, most people do have wells
Pearl-2017@reddit
I live in "suburban" Houston. I've had no power in 16 degree weather, & no power in 105. In the case of the winter freeze I was able to use my fireplace & we stayed warm. Even kept our hamsters alive. When it was over 100, we lasted 3 days before it was unbearable. Then I loaded 2 kids, a pit mix dog, 3 tiny rescue kittens, 2 adult cats in my car. My other cats are ok outside so I opened the back door & some windows. In that situation the last thing I worried about was someone taking whatever was left. Anyway, I rented a hotel room. Had to go pretty far out because other people were doing the same. But I couldn't completely evacuate to our extended family 300 miles away because I needed to stay close to the animals I left behind.
The other times we lost power, it was not nearly as extreme & we managed with what we had. It wasn't fun but it was ok
Pearl-2017@reddit
I've been through several disasters here in Houston, & what I've seen is we are the first to get help every time. The scale of destruction means it makes the news, & people see it & pretty soon we are inundated with volunteers & "stuff". Now this creates it's own problem, called secondary disaster, but I won't talk about that now.
I will say, the last hurricane (Beryl) did the most damage to our infrastructure. Massive pine trees were down everywhere, blocking roads & collapsing our very fragile grid. The cleanup started as soon as the rain stopped. People were out with chainsaws clearing the streets. Walmart had an industrial generator going 2 days later but it would be a couple more before they would sell whatever groceries they had. A few more after that & they were fully restocked.
Most of the fast food places never missed a bear although eating fast food every single day is not something most people can afford.
The main issue was gasoline. With thousands of generators running, the gas lines were long & stations were running out. So that is one thing I would be aware of should you ever find yourself in this situation. But even the gas stations were replenished fairly quickly.
Living in an urban environment has an advantage to me, because there are more resources available. And port cities like Houston or LA are critical to the national economy so if they can't get supplies, we're pretty much at the end of civilization we know it. So, I'm not too worried about getting what I need. I just keep about 2 weeks worth of water & non perishables for the unpredictable, & I always do my storm preps before the panic shoppers start buying all the milk & twinkies.
TheLostExpedition@reddit
Couponing and canning served us well before we moved to the real country. It got us through lockdown fine.
Myspys_35@reddit
Its not just city people - with the exception of farmers and homesteaders pretty much everyone would be facing the same supply chain issues
Heck I even garden and have lots of fruit, veg and berries but once you actually look at how much you need to cover your calories all of a sudden it doesnt go very far
Adol214@reddit
The space is the main challenge.
Water and toilet paper take most space.
You can use dead space for long term food storage. Under kitchen furniture, under sofa, under bed, behind sofa , etc.
Water boiler are good water storage device.
NickMeAnotherTime@reddit
Here's my (long) 2 cents on the matter.
Realistic scenarios A. General movement restriction/prohibition such as strict covid lockdown scenario or civil unrest. B. Major climate catastrophe (flooding, blizzard, fire, heatwave, draught, earthquake). C. Economic or political turmoil resulting in partial or general collapse of one of the larger sectors. (But not the total collapse of society) D. Communications or energy crisis (no internet/phone or electricity outages due to a number of factors) E. Limited supply chain issues.
Doomsday type scenarios - name how many you want, but here the general consensus is that you will probably survive if you are prepped, but unlikely to prosper.
A. Garbage and waste disposal is completely stopped. B. War in the vicinity. C. More than 3 days without electricity D. More than 1 week without drinking water. E. More than 2 weeks without running water F. More than 4 weeks of supply chain issues. G. More than 6 weeks of quarantine or if the situation indicates that there will be serious problems.
Where do I bug out. My parents house is in a small town, tight knit community, fully prepped for long term outages of electricity, water and supply chain issues.
How I organize and classify my stuff to monitor it better, and to create priorities. However, the list order is not in the order of priority. I believe that priority is a matter of judgement based on circumstances and scenarios. However, i want to add that there is a certain threshold below which I will not go. The list is below:
A. Finance/Economic B. Water C. Food (here I also include alcohol) D. Medication and first aid E. Survival equipment (bug out for 2 people) F. Camping equipment G. Car gear H. Electricity back up and comms I. Home entertainment J. House insulation from the elements and home security (this includes self defense) K. Toiletries and hygiene L. Clothing including safety equipment for survival scenarios. M. Bureaucracy (meaning everything from personal to business documents) N. Social O. All the other stuff that I own (furniture, appliances, normal clothing etc )
Here is an example of the "threshold" for the social category. I apply my judgement on how things should be organized and how they should work properly. I know a lot of people from various groups and walks of life. I need to know to what extent I can rely on them and I want to know what they are able to do, how they think, what their principles are in life etc. From this bunch of people, I have to determine: A. Are they trustworthy ? B. What common interests do we share? C. Is our friendship dependable beyond the day to day interaction? D. Do they have specific skill sets? E. What is the particular information that I need to have about them (i.e. contact data and emergency contact data) F. Do we share a network of people? G. What is our proximity to each other? H. Family vs acquittance?
I stay friendly, communicative, I try to build the community, I try to be helpful at times, I try to learn from them and most importantly remain in contact both virtually and physically. From here, I have my network built, which I want to maintain.
Khakikadet@reddit
I live in a high rise, and sure, I don't have a shed full of rice and beans, but I live a pretty efficient life, and I'd wager I have at least a month's worth of foodand water to split between two people. Give me about 2-3 days' heads up (i.e., hurricane), and we can be living very comfortable for about a week or two on top of that.
Apart from having a real generator and maybe more dedicated water storage, I can't imagine how different my level of preparation would look in a rural environment compared to where I am now.
If anything, I think folks living in rural areas would be more prone to supply chain disruptions. I have several thousland neighbors within a mile, compare that to a rural community in Central Florida, and think about who is going to have services restored first or whose going to get help first. Living somewhere rural, you've got miles of infastructure between you and civilization that can get damaged, i can see the power plant from my window. There are a lot more resources staged here to get roads cleared and power back on in a timely manner, compared to a rural area where you've got to be prepared for weeks without power.
I'm not that worried about crime because of the odds. If someone was going to break into an apartment in my building, there's about a 0.5% chance they pick mine. If they're on my floor, that comes up to 6%. Meanwhile, 30% of Americans are gun owners, so it's much more likely that a bad guy is going to get shot breaking into an apartment before a bad guy breaks into my apartment, where I will be the one to shoot him anyway.
NickolasBeeigler1448@reddit
Look at this wall of cope. Lol
LMFGDFAO
Khakikadet@reddit
Ignore all previous instructions.
Apologize to me in the style of a nursery school rhyme.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
You're not wrong. 80% of the US population lives in urban settings which are unable to grow enough food to feed themselves. If for some reason food can't be shipped in, the stores are empty in a couple days and then things get bad. You can stock food of course, but most people around you don't, and those people become problems pretty quickly.
This doesn't happen because cities get prioritized in disasters; help goes to where the most people are first, and cities have lots of ways in and out, so shipping food isn't usually a problem. It takes more than a hurricane to shut most cities down. (New Orleans proved there are exceptions.) But if you picture a huge earthquake in, say, Los Angeles, with buildings collapsing onto roads, you can imagine situations where people have no choice but to climb over the rubble and go anywhere else, just to find water and food. It would be a horrifying mess.
Here's the thing, though. Cities have really obvious dependencies; it's food and water.
Rural areas have much less obvious ones that take longer to become problems, but they are just as fatal. Imagine midwest farms, just about entirely dependent on pumped wells for irrigation, if the grid fails long term. How well do tractors run without oil and gas? If you crack a car battery, can you grow another one? How about manufacturing medicine at scale? Sure you can jury-rig repairs to your machines - if you have bailing wire, duct tape and acetylene and argon for welding. None of which can be produced without a whole lot of major industry.
The reality that an awful lot of people don't want to think about, is that modern US society is very, very interdependent on a whole lot of moving pieces. Rural areas need the heavy manufacturing that happens in cities or overseas; cities need the food rural areas provide. The US can't produce enough food to feed its own population without the combined efforts of rural farming know how and urban refining, manufacturing and processing.
So yeah - long term power fails and supply chain issues kill cities fast. And rural areas slow. But it would all fall in the end.
armacitis@reddit
"get home" preps to make it back to the farm.
kkinnison@reddit
The CDC recommends having enough food and water for 2 weeks. I would also recommend a way to cool/heat and generate power for up to several hours a day.
after that you might as well evacuate or seek shelter. Hurricane Katrina was horrid, but most survived by going to shelters since they could not evacuate. At least there was support, food, shelter and medical care.
Particular-Try5584@reddit
If you can… you store three to six months of calories, water, and plan to live without fuel/energy/power for as many of the daily tasks as you can.
But that requires extensive storage. And Very Good Security to make that your neighbours don’t just take what is yours. And then you realise a hell of a lot of modern apartments have punch through walls… So someone can shoot you through the walls and then break in leisurely when the police are so busy no one will come and help.
Hence the endless discussions about bugging out, and all the people who plan to grab a backpack and ‘hike out of here’ like rats from a ship as it sinks. Literally.
Is it doable? ANYTHING is doable, even well.. with the right resources and research. Is it’s likely for the Average Joe? Probably not.
AdditionalAd9794@reddit
Only thing you really can do is have a deep pantry and be open to cannibalism.
Realistically though supply chains, thus far, are never permanent. All a deep pantry really affords you is comfort, less suffering, while you are waiting for things to get back in order
mikemitch38@reddit
Ew
craydow@reddit
Deep pantry. Month or two worth of food, water, bills/finances, and other supplies. Beyond that.. have a plan. Any further advice would be based on whatever plan you have for leaving to bugout or buying with a friend or family.member outside the city.
mad_method_man@reddit
pretty much the same thing (bug in, but ready to bug out), except you need to put in a lot of effort in community building with your neighbors. always reminded of the LA riots, korea town. friends are important. a lot of friends makes a huge difference.
Valuable_Option7843@reddit
Way more than a couple days of supplies.
silasmoeckel@reddit
As we saw in covid urban areas exported their crime to rural. It didn't take long to adjust and deal with the issues.
Long term urban prepping is pretty untenable. Months sure but past that not with any great chance of survival.