When did work change?
Posted by Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit | GenX | View on Reddit | 245 comments
I'm posting this here because I don't think the younger generations will understand where my point of view is coming from. I'm male, 52, born and raised and living in what most would consider rural Canada.
I've worked hard all my life. I show up on time, I don't gossip, I'm always looking for things to do at work, I take very few sick days. I feel like this is very typical for most Gen Xers. There is a viewpoint of Millennials and Gen Z that people of that age don't like to work and don't want to work. I don't think that's necessarily true but I have met and worked with people in those generations who fit that. However, I generally find that a majority of Gen Xers I have worked with are like me. They work hard and they do their best to show up to work each and every day.
In 35 years of being in the working world, I have never once been denied vacation time. I have always consulted with supervisors and managers before planning my vacations. Again, I feel that this is typical of Gen Xers that I have worked with in the past.
My wife and family bought plane tickets on a seat sale to fly to the East Coast at Christmastime to visit her brother and his family. I waited on getting a ticket until I could get approval for the time off. I talked to my supervisors (I have two supervisors because I do two different jobs currently) and they both said I could have the time off and that scheduling would not be a problem. I submitted my request immediately. I work at a small business so the HR person also has another job. Between the HR person and the manager, they tried as hard as they could to deny me at least part of that vacation. The comment I got from the HR person was that neither of them had taken any vacation time yet (her job is definitely hard to fill in for) and that they needed to find people "who wanted to work."
When did taking vacation time become an indication of not wanting to work? I had the vacation time banked. I work hard when I'm there. This vacation basically used up all my vacation days I've accrued up till now. Christmas is also the slowest time of year for our business. Yet, apparently a week and a half from Christmas to the weekend after New Years is too much? I've never run into this type of thinking in 35 years!!
When did this start? Have I been lucky and just missed this type of sentiment in all my other jobs before this?
SnooPineapples6835@reddit
The "quiet quitters" think the people pulling their weight don't like to work?
penn2009@reddit
Have seen that for years in multiple jobs. Thought it would change when the live to work Boomer reached a certain age but these types don’t retire and still are in leadership. Sadly, plenty of Gen X seem to have been brainwashed by this mentality. People take “vacations” where I work but it ends up being work from home. Management just looks the other way
MountainNovel714@reddit
Hi. ‘75 Gen X er here and can honestly say I’ve always been the hardest working person in any room/enviromment. Don’t stop till the jobs done, even if the pay clock has stopped.
Just the way I grew up. You know.
I myself am exposed to 20-early 30 yr olds and have to train coach and mentor them and boy. NOT. THE. SAME. and at least a couple employers I’ve been with accept this because “that’s the world we are in and that’s the workforce that’s available” meanwhile I grind and pick up the slack and clean up the mess etc and work the long hours.
I’m paid accordingly so can’t complain there. Not bothered at all. No one breaths down my back. (Tons of experience in my field so I’m left to do my job) and never been denied vacation.
Discouraging working w some lazy new generations. NOT ALL, but sure feels like a lot. Low drive, low work ethic. Clock watchers. Not sure why it’s like that now.
I put my vacation time in well in advance and don’t always get it “approved” immediately because I’ll put it in months ahead of time.
I’m pretty much “TELLING THEM” that’s when I will not be at work (accoms and other stuff booked and paid for I’ll note). So. They will either have me there still or not. I’m still going. My skills, experience, drive, knowledge and work ethic can afford me that luxury. I never have a problem though. Not yet anyways.
I think you need to take that stance.
“Let them know they should plan for you to not be there or they will be paying double to find someone w far less experience and motivation to retrain”. Don’t take that shit. Them not planning their time and vacation is not your problem.
ginger_kitty97@reddit
Younger generations aren't necessarily lazy, but they sure as hell learned that employers don't have their best interests in mind and refuse to be taken advantage of like our generation has been. There has been no loyalty or respect shown to them, so why should they give any?
MountainNovel714@reddit
Because it’s their own future they are sacrificing.
FunnyGarden5600@reddit
How so? Studies show the best way to give yourself a raise is to switch employers.
MountainNovel714@reddit
All while not gaining experience. Leave one job you didn’t have experience for, didn’t gain any, but maybe got a title, got to next got w new title, new job on the resume, get new job w a bit more pay, try to perform new job, and the cycle continues.
If one is happy with this. I guess it’s ok. If one is happy with others (like myself) completely carrying them through their roles and daily jobs/tasks/asks because they are so disinterested in putting the time in and extra time in to figure it out for themself. Then, hey. Go for it.
Not my style. I like earning things. Learning things. Figuring out problems on my own. Getting myself out of difficult learning opportunities on my own. Being completely independent. I am 100% self taught. From a young age. I watch. I try. I read. I try. I learn. I do. I fail. I try again. I master.
sungodly@reddit
You may have had an exceptionally lucky with experience but the vast majority of us earned way more than we were given and learned the hard way that our loyalty didn't mean shit.
MountainNovel714@reddit
Respect is earned. Not handed out. That’s the problem today.
Same with loyalty. Show me loyalty. I’ll show you loyalty.
ginger_kitty97@reddit
No, respect is a given and can be lost. We have to respect our bosses, right? As for loyalty, 95% of employers would fire anyone if they could replace them for less money, regardless of how many years they've given, hours they've worked without pay, or injuries they've sustained and ignored on behalf of the company. We've seen it over and over. It happened to our grandparents, our parents, and our peers, as well as many of us.
MountainNovel714@reddit
I am old school. I’ll admit.
You are right. Basic human respect IS given. I jumped straight into the point on business and work, and mentoring/coaching/teaching and level of interest with respect (Lol) to respecting someone’s actions or person.
The role is 7-4. Showing up at 7:05, 7:10, 6:59 and leaving at 3:50, 3:59, 4. Like out the door. Literally. To me. In my mind and heart/soul, I lose a bit of respect for that person.
If your not early, your late. You are being paid until 4pm. Close up at 4pm. Not out the door at 4pm which means you were checked out at 3:40/3:45 to start packing up to even be on the other side of the door at 4pm. I see it daily w so many new hires in the early to mid 20 to early 30 yr olds.
It’s mind boggling to me.
It’s just me I know. I was raised different, and in a different place and time and not with a lot of money. I hustled to earn as much money as I could wherever I could whenever I could.
It’s taken me places. It’s shown on my annual income statement and annual bonus for so many years as I’ve progressed, not to mention the knowledge and skills I’ve acquired that have made me quite saught after.
Me finding a job is like shooting fish in a barrel.
I am here to help these young people grow and develop, I’ll pour my heart and soul into them. I have had a handfull that 100% have been worthy and I love it, but I do see many that don’t seem to care and aren’t so interested and just aren’t wired that way. And I hear about it from others that are wired like myself.
Is all I was trying to express.
Times have changes.
ginger_kitty97@reddit
I was raised the same. It hasn't shown on my earnings statement, I've never gotten a bonus. I do have the permanent neck/back/joint damage to show for it. I was fired once, in spite of exceptional evaluations, to save the neck of the bosses favorite when she fucked up and I was the one on the hook for fixing it (which I did, but not out of the budget they wanted to use, because that money was gone). The kids are right.
MountainNovel714@reddit
Not in broad strokes like this. Not in all industries or career paths. Safety wise. absolutely!
I’m sorry to hear your side of the story
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
While I agree in principle with taking that position, it doesn't always work in practice. We are a small business and if anyone in either of my two work areas had already booked time off, I would understand that they couldn't let me have time off too.
InsensitiveCunt30@reddit
You work in a small business of like 6-10 people? One of those people is full time HR? If no one wants to work except the admin peeps the owner should just have a holiday shut down period.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
It's more like 20 people and the HR person also has another, full-time, position with the business that is their regular 9-5 job.
InsensitiveCunt30@reddit
I am definitely on the side of "tell them" you are going on vacation. Write an email to both of your supervisors with the dates you will be gone. If you can get them to reply back "thanks for letting us know" or something to that effect you should be good.
Essentially, try to get documentation in writing to/from your supervisors they have been informed of the dates. I don't know why HR and another manager have to get involved. If more drama comes if it, tell the supervisor to deal with them.
Go have a blast on your holiday vacation!
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
Thank you for the suggestion. I will remember to do that in the future.
sassypants450@reddit
All due respect my friend, but I think you are being too nice to your employer. Hard working employees do not grow on trees. They should know you have already bought a plane ticket and will have to deal with you leaving for a Christmas adjacent break for crying out loud if they want to retain you as an employee.
Silrathi@reddit
Exactly, they aren't trying to deny you because they have cause but because they want to demonstrate their power.
I have the luxury of telling my employer where to shove it if they treated me this way, but I have lots of options if I choose to find other employment. Perhaps it's harder where you are, and honestly that's a valid concern. I changed jobs 2 months ago and was surprised I didn't get more offers than I did.
However, perhaps it's time to test the market where you are and see what your options are because your leadership is toxic.
fmlyjwls@reddit
Unless you own the business that’s not your problem. You have accrued vacation that you’re entitled to. Let them know you won’t be there. It’s their responsibility to adapt.
ThermionicEmissions@reddit
That shit wouldn't fly where I work. We are actively encouraged to take our vacation time.
Is there a lot of turnover at your work? Replacing staff is very expensive.
Sounds like that HR person needs to go, or they are simply enforcing the executive's directions, in which case I's be looking for another job.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
There is a lot of turnover. The business, I'm told, has a not great reputation regarding how they treat staff. I attribute that to some people in managerial and supervisory positions and not the owner, who is a great guy but lets the managers run the day to day operations.
ManintheMT@reddit
I am considering leaving a job of fifteen years because using even half of my earned PTO in a year is deemed as non-loyalty. I asked for a portion of my PTO to be bought back if I am not allowed to use it (because I have hit the maximum), that was considered subordination.
Don't become too valuable on a small team folks, they think they own you.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
I hear you on that. I have a level of responsibility that I can't even leave early unless it's an emergency.
Siltyn@reddit
When I put in a vacation, it's not a request...it's me telling them I won't be there. I put my end of year vacation in just this past week, no asking involved. I'm entitled to it, I take it. Just one of many benefits of my union job.
Helmett-13@reddit
There are .7 applicants for every 1 req in cleared IT work so it's not like I can't just find a new job by lunchtime if they show me the door for taking time off.
I've seen dudes laid off at 8 AM and with an offer letter from another company by 4 PM.
Thatstealthygal@reddit
I've heard of people doing that with redundancy packages in hand back in the day, but those are like mythical times now.
Helmett-13@reddit
Get and hold a top secret clearance and it is very much a reality in IT.
A polygraph (C\I or full scope) and a couple of IT certs and you’re golden.
I’ve had a TS/SCI with a polygraph for a couple of decades and it opens doors and keeps them open.
HandMadeMarmelade@reddit
Yeah uh not in the current job market.
Helmett-13@reddit
Cleared IT: having a clearance
We have .7 applicants for each req. I have a sysadmin spot that’s been open for five months now, for example.
AlphaWolf@reddit
It is brutal right now. I need to get full time work and I see 200 applicants for every job.
irishgator2@reddit
Was going to comment the same thing- I never “ask” for time off I just take it and put it on the calendar.
Joe_Early_MD@reddit
👆 we have a policy that if it is denied, it must be rescheduled right away. It easier for the upper clowns to just approve it 😂.
19lizajane76@reddit
The policy where I work is that you submit a request off form, request to use PTO or not or a mix of both on that same form, and if it's denied and you don't show up it is you quitting. Luckily our current manager is great about approving our time off requests even though we're incredibly short staffed. She knows we need time off and she also knows that we as a team are perfectly fine to make things work even with one less person in for a few days
ConsistentJuice6757@reddit
Same, I’m not asking, I’m telling them I won’t be there. I put it on the calendar and then don’t show up.
Significant_Pea_2852@reddit
When i had my first job, I applied for leave. My boss said 'if you're a good girl, I'll let you have your leave.' I told him that I wasn't asking, i was telling and if he said anything like that again, I'd be talking to the sexual harassment officer.
Electrical_Beyond998@reddit
You showed great restraint in not kicking him right in the groin. What a dick.
RedditSkippy@reddit
Ugh. Our president does the same. She thinks she’s being funny. She is absolutely not being funny.
RandoFrequency@reddit
Ugh. My old head of dept (a woman) used to say, “You can go soon as all you work is done” (the joke being that it never is.
I know she meant it as a well-intended show of humor, but it resulted in so much stress across so many people.
gdhkhffu@reddit
Yes. This is part of your compensation package and the company is obligated to pay for time off.
acab415@reddit
THIS!
Judgy-Introvert@reddit
Not union and I do the same. I look at a vacation submittal as a heads up…for them. I’ll the out of the office. Don’t contact me.
Popcorn_Blitz@reddit
I coordinate with my team to make sure there's coverage but yes, I don't ask. This is my time that I'm entitled to, it's part of my compensation package. I literally earned it. My leadership doesn't need to know anything more than that I will not be there and I have a back up set up. Not union, but being union helps.
LimpFrenchfry@reddit
Im not union but its the same for me. I don’t ask, I inform them when I’ll be gone. No discussion needed.
Thatstealthygal@reddit
I'm fortunate to live in a country where both sick days and holidays are legislated and employers will sometimes make you take a holiday if you've accrued too much time and not used it (I think cynically this is to avoid having to pay out a huge amount if you leave, but good employers also recognise the need for breaks)
Stephreads@reddit
It’s your time, you earned it, and can therefore take it whenever you want. It is their job to figure it out if they need coverage.
healthisourwealth@reddit
When HR became a thing. Your post answers your question. The supervisors say "sure" but HR feels the need to impose themselves, in order to justify their job.
Iamnotokwiththisshit@reddit
Yes, you've been lucky. Millenials and GenZ have it a lot worse in many ways. They are bitching loudly about it because they aren't as brainwashed, subservient to employers and numb as our generation is. They don't want their entire lives, including personal time to be at the whim of corporate overlords. And they are right to refuse to do more than they are contracted to do. They are right to challenge the violations of labor law that grow more egregious by the year. The claim that they don't want to work is gaslighting for the fact that they don't want to be farmed.
AlphaWolf@reddit
I never thought of GenX as “numb” but excellent observation.
I would say numb and angry as we could never get in a position to change anything.
Foolgazi@reddit
About the best we did is bring “corporate casual” and then casual to the mainstream, although even that was technically started by boomers in ‘80s Silicon Valley
Iamnotokwiththisshit@reddit
What about music, I think we did ok there.
Foolgazi@reddit
Oh yeah, I’m just talking about corporate culture based on the OP
But the funny thing about Gen X music is Chris Cornell and Eddie Vedder were/are technically Boomers
Iamnotokwiththisshit@reddit
Yeah, I think I alternate. Right now I'm angry because an entitled boomer is trying to get something from me for free. Bitch, I'm poor, you're not. Pay me and I'll do it.
sweetassassin@reddit
As a late GenX (xennial) I can attest that being a latchkey kid, I did not want to give majority of my life adult life to a job.
My mom would commute 1 hour each way. She’d get home and be so exhausted that we were emotionally neglected.
I’m child free by choice, but I have a deep sympathy for women who really believe that they can have it all: marriage, house, kids, career, etc.
Also, I have always thought, if during the industrial age capitalists were developing things and services that would make life “easier”; 140 years later we’re working now more than ever. Worker gives their time in exchange for a wage— now companies want you to be part of the family, putting in quiet rooms, kombucha on tap, ping pong tables…
Sorry I just went off on a tangent. I have strong feelings on this whole dynamic change between the capitalists and the workforce.
exscapegoat@reddit
The family shit is especially annoying. Like they’re going to let their relatives go because profits are down?
Iamnotokwiththisshit@reddit
Yeah my family treated me like shit, so that never really won me over lol
All it means is that they are going to ignore your boundaries and gaslight you when you stand up for yourself.
AlphaWolf@reddit
Instead of all that new automated productivity making our lives better, the soulless people in charge just eliminated 3 positions for every one. Which would be ok if there was any real profit sharing, but 4% towards the 401k does not cut it.
Really a race to the bottom the last 10 years with companies doing as little as possible to retain people.
jbellafi@reddit
💯💯
agetuwo@reddit
51, I've worked over xmas and stat holidays more than not. I only started getting vacation time with no hassle after I started working for the federal government.
We don't get paid as well as the private sector, but we have work/life balance.
kgohlsen@reddit
Yup, I work for a state agency, and considering pension and benefits, I think we actually fare pretty well, with union representation to boot.
claytionthecreation@reddit
The work/life balance and the benefit used to offset the difference in pay from public to private sector. People don’t understand stand that, especially people that put down government jobs. The benefits now have been reduced but the pay hasn’t increased in the public sector. As time goes on I predict you will see less and less people go into public sector jobs, especially if you spent a lot of money on college or have student loans.
AlphaWolf@reddit
The pay gap seems really bad these days.
VP level tech jobs in our state government paying $113k per year. Private sector was well over $200k for the same skill set and experience.
claytionthecreation@reddit
Same here in MI. Then you get people that think it the 1980’s and government jobs have all these excellent benefits. Sometimes they are better than the private sector but most times now it isn’t true. We contribute to our healthcare and benefits and most places have dumped pensions.
People need to ask themselves why would anyone want to be a cop, teacher, etc when it costs $30k here at a public university. If you can get out in 4 years you will have at least $120k, at the least, in debt (assuming you have loans) to get a job making $60k-$65k. Maybe if you work long enough, say at least 10 years, you might make $100k assuming you get promoted into management. Sure the feds pay more and there are higher paying public jobs but it will take you years to pay off those loans at that rate. Oh and let’s not forget that bonuses don’t exist in the public sector.
I’m not dating saying there still aren’t some perks in public sector like more 9-5 M-F scheduling and stuff but there is a big difference now.
As I always tell people the days of “finding yourself at college” are gone or nearly impossible at the cost of college.
AlphaWolf@reddit
I always had managers in my career not want to hire people coming from the federal government, they were seen as “lazy”.
Funny how deep the brainwashing goes. You need to sacrifice your family, vacations and health and maybe we will give you a decent raise.
It is so toxic.
Caloso89@reddit
Same with state government. Around October my boss would send around an email reminding people to submit their time off requests for the end of the year. There might be a little negotiation on the edges in order to ensure that we had coverage, but she worked to make it work.
el50000@reddit
Same. I manage a branch and always wait to see what my team is taking off over the holidays then I plan my leave when they’re back so we’ve always got coverage. My first priority is to make sure they take the breaks they need from the stress of our work.
Ceorl_Lounge@reddit
Because that's what managers do. Their job isn't controlling employees, it's ensuring the work is getting done.
lazygerm@reddit
I work for my state government. I'm a union employee. The only problem with my taking time is just coordinating with others at my work place, if they want the same time off.
nimbusdimbus@reddit
Yep. It’s glorious
The68Guns@reddit
My part time place asks why I want the day off. I just write PTO.
Dismal-Bobcat-7757@reddit
I happen to work for a small company that is very flexible with time off. I don't even have to ask. I just write it on the calendar so they know.
As for the younger crowd that doesn't want to work, I've seen a mix. Some just don't want to work. I read a story where they won't work until they find a job they "vibe" with. Others will work, but they expect promotions immediately and if they don't get what they want, they leave. I've seen it happen and it's more of a patience thing than not wanting to work. They are part of the instant gratification generations.
Onedarkhare@reddit
If I were you I would tell them that Pto time stands for prepare the others because regardless I won’t be there .
Ff-9459@reddit
I don’t think it’s changed. It’s always been that way at some jobs. There’s no reason to kill yourself at a job that doesn’t respect you. Kudos to millennials and gen Z for figuring that out.
whatgives72@reddit
Because they don’t want to pay you those banked hours when you fall off the org chart.
Ff-9459@reddit
We don’t get to cash out those things at my job. We do have very generous sick time and vacation policies. I take vacation days often but still have about 6 weeks of vacation time banked and 2 months of sick time. Our bosses just practice what they preach about work life balance. My boss is on a 2 week vacation right now.
pumppeppdash@reddit
I have been working in corporate type jobs for 20+ years and never heard of that happening. Your HR and manager sound terrible. That's a toxic environment.
waaaghboyz@reddit
The younger generations DEFINITELY understand your point of view. There’s a push to make work more fair for everyone, not just rich business owners. r/antiwork has a lot of good discussion
Zeveroth1@reddit
With my job, I just tell them about 4 to six months in advance (even though they don’t seem to care as long as it’s not only a week out), that I’m going to be gone a week or two. They are completely fine with it. It’s when I have to take off time for unexpected life events on short notice that they gripe some but get over it. lol. A lot of the younger workers there on the other hand just don’t show up on time or complain about working a full 8 hours then when they don’t, they complain about wanting more money. When did not working and complaining about wanting more money become a thing? I know it’s not all the younger ppl doing it but I do notice it a lot. My last raise was 2 years ago. I work 45 or more hours almost every week while some of them barely come in to work 30 without complaining. Baffling.
Fresa22@reddit
Work hasn't changed. Bosses have just made up narrative that nobody wants to work to eek the last bit of energy out of their employees. The truth is that if you do a google search for every generation as they entered the workforce they were called lazy and entitled. I think it's a "storming and norming" technique to get new workers to toe the line and not stand up for themselves.
I hope this generation doesn't fall for it and doesn't buy into the bulls#@t that you have to sacrifice your health, dignity and joy to "get ahead."
Technical-Pay-1159@reddit
No, just a bad job. I'm 53 and worked at a newspaper for 20+ years and never took all the yearly vacation time I was allowed. Which vanished at the end of the year. I was essentially denying myself free money promised. Your HR department is not you friend, they work to deny employees what they deserve, They used this as a tool to reduce staff and force others to pick up the slack. Then they eliminated my job. To employees of all ages, take the vacation promised to you. If they say you are not willing to work find a better job. Employer's are fucking over employees this way, they're terrified of unions that would enforce this. The rich get richer as we fight each other. I admire Gen Z and quitting. the American labor market is fucked.
Foolgazi@reddit
Yep, HR has always existed to protect the company’s interests, not yours
S99B88@reddit
Millennials and GenZ are more likely to want work life balance. The HR people seem to be mistaking you for a “live to work” boomer
Foolgazi@reddit
Yeah, I was going to say if anything our generation is worse with work-life balance than the younger ones
Foolgazi@reddit
This sounds like a problem unique to your company and not generational. I’ve heard of this type of culture at small mom & pop businesses, where everyone wears multiple hats and absences are frowned upon. Sorry this is what you’re encountering.
No_Cook_6210@reddit
It's always been like this for me, but Im a teacher. I try not to ever take time off since I have more vacation. But some of the younger workers take a ton a vacation days.
MysteryMachineATX@reddit
Companies will do whatever they feel they can get away with. Right now the power is in the employer's hands in many fields (most white collar at least, outside of medical). Execs got freaked out by how much power employees had during the pandemic and have swung the pendulum pretty far the other direction.
Traffic-Emergency@reddit
I think it really started in 2008, when people wanted to hold onto their jobs at all cost and it got worse since Covid. That’s my experience in the IT sector in the US. The companies pulled back benefits that were standard after the economic crash, replaced them with foosball tables to keep the youngsters at the office later, and they never went back. I think it’ll swing back eventually as the younger ones won’t tolerate it.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
I agree that the younger generations won't put up with this. With the changing age demographics they could also have more influence on making these changes.
OliphauntHerder@reddit
I'm late 40s in the US. I've always worked incredibly hard. I've only been denied leave once because a new employee was starting at the time...which I would understand if my request was for vacation but I was asking off for the funeral of a close family member. I'm still salty about being denied leave but I think my boss didn't fully grasp that I'm from a small family (thanks, Nazis) so I was extremely close to my great-aunt.
That said, I've had maybe 2 vacations in my life where I haven't had to call into meetings and 1 vacation where I didn't have to check email - because I purposefully selected a vacation destination on the other side of the world, with spotty wi-fi and cell service.
I do feel fortunate that I'm in academia (as a lawyer, not an academic) and universities are usually closed from Dec. 24th - Jan. 2nd, so there's no need to request, or burn, vacation time.
CelticArche@reddit
Shit like this is why I stopped going above and beyond. If I'm sick, I call out. I'm not killing myself for a job. If I'm expendable, so are they.
AlphaWolf@reddit
Covid woke me up. I used to always come in sick, worked every weekend taking on new projects. Then I was like, life is too short and no one appreciates it anyway in the end.
CelticArche@reddit
My foster brother brags about going in to work sick. He's caught covid more than once and so have both of his kids. I shudder to think what will happen when those kids get older and if there was any long term damage from that.
Ceorl_Lounge@reddit
The only thing going above and beyond has ever gotten me is more work. Infrequently some recognition, but never EVER a raise or promotion.
sucks2bdoxxed@reddit
I rarely call out, but EVERY single time I do they say "can you work your day off, you know to MAKE UP the day you called out?" Uh, isn't that what my PTO is for?
CelticArche@reddit
If you're lucky enough to have it.
gardenflower180@reddit
Happened to someone at my hubby’s work. He booked a trip over Xmas holidays and they denied him the holiday time. He had been there at least 15 years. He quit & went to work at the competition.
AlphaWolf@reddit
Good for him. I feel that is non-negotiable. If you are gonna power trip me on a company benefit expect me to start looking around.
Cassiopia23@reddit
I have a cruise scheduled next month I requested the time off in Feb it's yet to be approved,
I'm going on this cruise whether they approve it or not they had ample notice I won't be around.
redjacktin@reddit
You are rising few points that I have noticed as well
No to the man - we were yes men to the boomers. The idea was we should listen to our adults, study hard, work hard, follow the rules and progressively but very slowly move up. This was the expectation we accepted it, and did not challenge it much at all. This was a lie, gen-x ate it up, we suffered through this boomer lie. For my entire career if I did get bonus it was annually, if I got stocks it was not until year 2. Whatever vacation I was given I accepted and for most of it, it was shit. Gen y&z have taken a stand and said no to the man. They want a better deal and I have seen corporations bend quite a bit with vacation pay, stocks, flexibility of work.
Great squeeze - Companies are making a boat load of money but this growth is expected, demanded especially if they are publicly traded. With the cost of next generation working force going up because of their demands, and their unwillingness to be committal to jobs, gen-x is under even more pressure to deliver. This has made me feel like I have to wear the leader hat as I am up in the chain now, as well as the doer hat because the gen y/z is either on vacation or taking a mental break or decided to quit and go to India for yoga classes.
AmerikanerinTX@reddit
This has been common for a LONG LONG time in the US. All the women in my family (except me) are primary breadwinners, and every single one of them has been told by a boss something along the lines of, "Do yourself a favor. Be a lawyer/doctor/professor/CPA/CFO or be a mother, but don't try to do both. If you plan to have kids, quit your job first, so you don't fail at both."
Even as a teacher, I was bullied and harassed about taking days off. Even though most districts offer 10 days per year, there's a very common sentiment that you shouldn't need any of those days, and using them for vacations or maternity leave is highly discouraged.
FunnyGarden5600@reddit
Administrators in our district will call you into the office if you miss more then three days. My response when it happened was to thank him for letting me know I have twelve more sick days and over 150 days in the bank. I also remind them of the twenty personal days I have. I come to work when I am healthy and stay home when I am sick.
AmerikanerinTX@reddit
I had a boss who would regularly show us presentations about the "long-term damaging effects" of teacher absence on student learning. And basically just constantly reiterate how the students will learn nothing on sub days. Yep, I'm ok with that. We REALLY don't need to suck every minute out of our students.
UndisturbedInquiry@reddit
My wife is a teacher. She’s good at her job. She’s been teaching for 25+ years and routinely has kids leaving her K class reading when it’s not expected in our state. She’s the type of teacher you want to keep happy and keep in the school.
She gets time off, but even if she takes it she’s expected to make sub plans for every day she’s out. For her this can be just as difficult or more than just teaching for the day. Taking a week or two off during the school year is just not possible as she does not think it’s fair to the kids.
HandMadeMarmelade@reddit
When I was in grade school even in HS (you know, back in the olden days) when we had a sub we didn't do our regular work that day. I remember some of the subs I had really well ... one guy was the brother of my biology teacher and he had spent a year in Antarctica, spent the class period telling us about it.
lol AND THAT WAS OKAY. I don't understand how a sub is supposed to teach as effectively as the regular teacher.
FunnyGarden5600@reddit
Teachers tend to work sick because sub lesson plans are a pain in the butt. My district require three days of emergency plans just in case we can’t do them.
GreenEyedPhotographr@reddit
Oh dear God, I don't miss those days at all. The unmitigated bullshit from my (mostly) male bosses during my early years, the sexist crap they used to sling at any woman under the age of 40 (including my one boss who was literally the head of human resources!), and the way they'd speak down to you as if you were absolutely, stunningly, thicker than shit. I don't miss that. I miss being young, full of energy, and could generally just quit a job without feeling like I was losing a whole career. I don't miss the rest of it, though.
Thinking back on the head of HR, I just remembered him giving me a nice bottle of Halston (his wife obviously chose it) for Christmas and we all opened our gifts during a special lunch the company took us to at a very fancy restaurant. I oohed and aahed appropriately and thanked him. He said, I kid you not, "your regular perfume is pretty, but this'll get the men instantly hard for you." My officemates and I all gave healthy fake laughs. The one woman who didn't was the admin manager to the company president (who wasn't in attendance), and she cleared her throat, cutting off all the fake jocularity ("jocularity! Jocularity!" ~ Father Mulcahey, MASH) and then she calmly said, "Richard [the formal version, naturally], you know better than to speak like that to any of the young women in this office. In fact, you know better than to speak like that to anyone in the entire company in this manner. I don't care if you just got back from two weeks out at the plants, crudeness is inappropriate. Ladies, shall we go powder our noses for a moment?" God, I loved that woman. When we returned, he apologized to all of us profusely, and to me, he apologized several times. He continued to apologize in the car as we all drove back together.
As to the whole time off request thing, it proved problematic for me only when I had a boss who was trying to prove how powerful they were. Before I'd taken the job, I'd made it clear I would always need to have a specific three days in a row off due to an annual commitment. She agreed to it easily and wholeheartedly. I asked it to be included in the offer letter. It was. Naturally, when I put in my annual request (I put it in at exactly 1 minute after midnight the first day I could submit the request - they had to be date and time stamped), she acknowledged she received my request (everyone had to have a receipt), and then I waited. And I waited. And I waited. Considering that three day period was guaranteed in writing, I shouldn't have needed to wait for the formal notification that my request was approved. When I hadn't heard back a month out, I stopped by her office to inquire. "What do you want?" I was just wondering when you send out the time off request approvals. "When I approve something, you'll know. I usually don't send out anything until the schedule is posted." Of course, my request was denied. I was put on the schedule for all three of the days I needed off. My request form was marked denied, crumpled, smoothed out, and attached to the top of my schedule. I went to see her again about it. I asked why I had been denied because she had agreed to this as a condition of me accepting the offer, and she put it in writing. "The offer letter isn't binding. I had too many requests off for that time period. You were the last one hired." I pointed out the timestamp of my request, as that was what our handbook stated was the only determining factor regarding "seniority" when it came to anything less than five consecutive days off. "I just told you my decision. Get back to work." And she slammed her door in my face, causing two of the charge nurses on duty to look out of the conference room.
I was disappointed. Okay, I was mad. Very mad. The charge nurses waved me in and asked what had happened. I showed them the schedule with my request as I told them about the offer letter and the whole thing. They looked at each other and said, "Don't worry about it. We got your back. What dates can't you work before or after those days?" I can work any days and shifts. "Which days and shifts would you prefer?" I didn't even need to think it over and told them. "Give us 48 hours." 48 hours later, I had the perfect schedule with the days off I had requested. Signed by the unit manager herself. All that had been required were two signatures from charge nurses from day shift and two from nights. I had six from days, five from nights (would have been more, but days off means days off). I loved how my charge nurses went above and beyond for me, and I truly appreciated how they waited for her to personally acknowledge and sign the schedule change. It was their personal fuck you to the boss. They also filed a copy and a complaint with HR about it because she had chosen to disregard the offer letter (enforceable) and hospital policy regarding requests. Plus, I wasn't the first nurse she'd done it to.
That sort of thing has been happening more and more frequently over the years. Managers don't like having to play by official rules, get angry if they are called on not following policy, and they go out of their way to play the "don't you know who I am" game. The younger they are, the less they feel the need to do it. The older they are, the more blatant they are with their pettiness. The minute I was told I couldn't go back to nursing after being injured on the job, I couldn't decide if I should cry over losing the best career I'd ever had or laugh with gleeful abandon because I would no longer need to deal with the crazy egos or power trips some of the nurses in management or supervisory positions played. It's been a few years and I am still not sure which way to feel.
I tend to side with the younger generations these days. Life is just as important as work. Most professional positions are always seeking better employees. Employers don't try to cheap out on pay because everyone pretty much knows how to find salary info for individual companies online. Employers have begun to realize they're doing themselves a great disservice if they don't make a position within that company, in that facility, in that department as attractive as possible, they'll miss out on an excellent employee. Companies also know employees no longer see regular moves between departments or organizations as something to fear. A lateral move is sometimes better for their career if it means there are more opportunities to learn and if they have more opportunities for advancement. I had feared doing so myself until I went into nursing. I mean, I didn't see that at first, but it made sense as I understood what was possible the more I learned along the way. That's what younger generations taught me. Could they make a tweak or two in there? Of course! Every generation has always had some fine tuning to do, but by the time they see how they could have made their way better, it's time to retire.
Life's too short at this point to take crap from shitty bosses. It's also still just a little bit too long to do anything to make the rest of your life more difficult. We're perpetually going to struggle trying to find balance.
WillieDoggg@reddit
I recently left my job over a similar decision.
I had plenty of accrued vacation time, but they decided my slow season requested vacation was too long.
It’s part of a pattern where it seems they feel they own employees. Especially in the U.S. where healthcare is typically tied to being a full time employee.
Upper management seems to get their egos involved too. Questioning any decision is unacceptable. I think they’d rather the company make less money as long as they retain absolute unquestioned power.
There are still good companies out there. If you have another option take it or start looking. Otherwise it’ll probably get worse and why work where you aren’t appreciated?
oakmox@reddit
Unfortunately, it’s also a way to nudge older workers, who are generally paid more, to want to quit. We’re all coming up on that age. I saw it happen to my parents in the 90s, and it’s brutal.
GalwayGirl606@reddit
It is definitely brutal. I work in public education in the U.S., and early in my career I saw many fantastic teachers basically pushed out the door by the Superintendent through means such as transferring them to an unfavorable school in the district (despite spending 30 years at their current school), transferring them to teach a different subject/grade than what they had taught for the past 20/30 years, etc. Why? Because the salary of one veteran teacher equals the salaries of two incoming new teachers. Of course, since the teacher shortage this doesn’t happen anymore, but it definitely played a part in the current status of U.S. public education today.
atx2004@reddit
I'd take a careful look at where the superintendent and school board are allocating that funding as well. I've seen mailers go out multiple times from one school district that were 10's of thousands each, plus bloated admin staff, etc. I'm not saying that we don't need funding, but the funding we do get for schools needs to be spent wisely. I've seen schools spend $75 million on a football stadium.
HandMadeMarmelade@reddit
In the past I would have agreed with you but go on the jobs subs, even young people and people in their "prime" i.e., late 20s and 30s, are being turned away.
yuhuh-@reddit
This is a great description of something I’ve noticed but been unable to articulate.
Accomplished-Math740@reddit
So it's your fault they don't use the vacation they earn? Even if their job is busy, it's no excuse.
I worked for a company that acted this way when they weren't even paying me vacation or sick time. It was a small company so that didn't have to offer it by law.
The company eventually went under. In addition to treating the handful of employees like crap, the owner spent the company into bankruptcy.
I'm very sorry you find yourself working for someone who probably fits the Peter principle.
ChartSea2664@reddit
The most offensive comments I have ever gotten at work were from women that work in HR.
wet_nib811@reddit
HR has also changed IMO. I feel like they’ve become more spiteful, miserable and less empathetic and sympathetic to employees, even if it’s window dressing.
I feel like they’ve taken the “HR works for the company, not the employees” too literally.
jmf0828@reddit
We’re currently living through the shortcomings of late stage capitalism. The scales no longer favor the worker or the consumer. The gameplan now is for the very wealthy and corporations to amass as much wealth as they can and that means squeezing as much as they can out of employees (and consumers). I know college grads who have been through 6 jobs in 2 years because companies think nothing of firing people once they’re through with whatever project needed to be finished and hiring another batch of drones when the next project rolls around because they see it as cheaper then keeping their employees when there’s a lull. A very well known corporation that I won’t name has a reputation inside the industry of hiring hundreds of employees and firing them within days just because they needed extra hands to finish something. It’s disgusting and without some kind of regulations, it will continue.
Wytch78@reddit
Name and shame, dude!
txa1265@reddit
The whole intergenerational "nobody wants to work" nonsense has been around for more than 150 years - there are great articles that document it. It is a shaming tactic to exploit younger workers, nothing more. No one who says this is worth listening to - they're not a good person.
Also, the whole "I've never taken a vacation/sick day in 25 years" flex is again, something that started with Silent Gen and got taken up big-time by Boomers ... who also never went to their kids' school activities because they never took time off work.
Realistic_Special_53@reddit
I am 55, live in the USA, and can confirm it is a somewhat recent thing. My last job did this kind of crap. It was just spiteful. Luckily, I have worked a new job for the past 5 years.
exscapegoat@reddit
Yes it seemed to start in the late 2000s and build from there with “hustle” culture, gaining momentum in the 2010s and really accelerating with the pandemic.
Your vacation time is part of your compensation. You should be able to use it without guilt or a problem. My workplace needs coverage the week between Christmas Eve and New Year’s Day. I’m not big on those holidays or thanksgiving so I don’t put in for time off and work that week and take off at other times. Most places Ive worked at tell employees to put our requests in by x date and which holidays you want time off for the most. We weren’t guaranteed Christmas Eve or the day before thanksgiving, etc, but anyone who wanted time off around those days got at least one choice off. But to completely deny it because they don’t have sense to take their time is completely insane.
And they’d considered who had it last year. Which I thought was a good idea.
One place I worked at had a woman who thought her seniority entitled her to ALL holiday time. I provided coverage for her so I couldn’t take time off when she did. She’d take 2 weeks at Christmas time. At the time, I had local family and we celebrated Christmas eve. I’d have to rely on the mercy of work letting us out early. She also called dibs on the days before and after thanksgiving, day after Easter
Wytch78@reddit
Lots of posts like this over at r/antiwork.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
I know but I didn't want a bunch of "work sucks and you should quit" responses from younger people.
HandMadeMarmelade@reddit
I'm a year older than you.
Your work really does suck and you should quit. You should also PROTEST and when you get a new job UNIONIZE.
They're saying this because they've been watching the shit you and I and everyone else has gone through and they're tired of it. LET THEM BE TIRED OF IT.
CelticArche@reddit
Well, honestly, worker does suck. I work cause I have bills to pay. Not because I like working.
ophymirage@reddit
I'm 54. your boss & HR sucks, and you should quit and find a better work-life-balance ethic. You don't have that much time left, bro.
Wytch78@reddit
I’m not saying you should have posted there, just that I’ve seen many stories like this. Also tales of workers getting fired a day before maternity leave, or right before surgery etc.
FunnyGarden5600@reddit
I have fourteen employees. They tell me when they are sick, sign up for vacations when they want and ask if they can work remote. It’s always granted. They wouldn’t be working for me if they were not amazing. Do I get annoyed sometimes yes I do. Not into the disgruntled employee. In fact when they complain about working on weekends I tell them not to or keep track of the hours and I will comp them.
RCA2CE@reddit
I think this really is just about your vacation being hard to manage the business around. At Christmas most people want to take time off, in a small team someone taking two weeks might be hard to schedule around.
At my office we take all requests, put them on a calendar and then decide who gets approved. We wouldn't do that in early September. I don't feel like this is a personal attack on you, just a schedule issue.
angry-software-dev@reddit
I'm in a position where I may deny myself time off due to projects or other employees taking them, but once I've agreed w/ myself that the timing works no one above me better deny it.
It's wild to me that your HR person is even involved with vacation approval, let alone would have so little awareness as to try to deny you because they haven't taken time let alone (again!) make a comment implying you don't want to work!
You've got a shit manager and HR person, as others have said when you have vacation time banked it's your time -- you're telling them when you'll take it.
Get firm with these people because they're clearly feeling you're a doormat.
No_Routine_3706@reddit
How many others put in for vacation for the same time period?
AnyDamnThingWillDo@reddit
Post like this make me realise not going for the green card I was entitled to in the late 80’s was the best decision I ever made
stromm@reddit
You realize, OP lives in Canada, right?
AnyDamnThingWillDo@reddit
They seem to have the same employee abuses to deal with as America. None of it would fly here. Employer would find themselves in court pretty damn quick if they were to treat the workforce like their minions
stromm@reddit
Where is here?
I’ve personally experienced this in the US. I have friends in Canada who have had the same happen.
aloneinyoursolitude@reddit
This definitely did not just start. You just have been lucky.
BigFitMama@reddit
Boomer mom judges me because I have a flex work schedule.
"Shouldn't you be at work?"
"No ma, took a person's day." (Which means my lower body is on high red alert.)
"You should think about your job. All.theses times off could make your boss mad."
"I'm the boss mom. Dir-rec-tor. I don't have a supervisor. The Dean and I work together and while they approve spending, they aren't my boss. And I can tell my team I need a day off when I want to."
And she doesn't know - I allow my team the same level of leeway with their time off and flexing their time. I can't pay them as much as they're worth, so I tried to make their job as pleasant as possible and family friendly as possible.
I'm on a work trip but "you get a work paid vacation? Do you EVER work?"
No no ma...see this 14 hour workshop/dinner/gala events schedule for 4 freaking days. 5 days in full business wear, 5 days of hair spray, makeup, and small talk. 2 bags, 2 plans, two airports, 2 crazy taxi 1 way. 1000s of dollars better spent, but yea - whee - I get to see NY from conference windows and taxi cabs.
Next year we are moving into a 4-day workweek to cover the cost of the new FLSA mandate. Her head is going to explode.
hermitzen@reddit
If others can't find time to take a vacation, that's not your problem. It's a management problem. Denying others time off because you haven't had time off is petty. Tell them you will be a much more productive worker when you get back (and studies show you will). You're going. And if they decide somehow to get rid of you, it's probably for the best.
RegrettableBiscuit@reddit
The issue here is that you think being loyal and conscientous towards your employer makes your employer loyal and conscientous towards you. This is something I've learned the hard way, and that millennials and gen z already understand.
Do not do more than you are getting paid for, because it buys you nothing except grief. Take your sick days. Don't look for more work to do than you are told to do. Do your work and go home and find something else to give your life meaning, because loyalty to your employer is a one-way street.
theghostofcslewis@reddit
Vacation's when you go somewhere... and you don't ever come back.
Mrs. Gump.
reindeermoon@reddit
From what I remember of my first jobs in the early 90s, there were definitely plenty of people who didn't have a good work ethic. I think it's more a function of age than generation. I would imagine the 20-something Gen Xers who treated work like a joke in 1992 eventually grew up and got over it. And I imagine that if you go back to the 1960s, there were young Boomers who also didn't care about work (actually, I guess that would be the hippies). Same with all the generations before that.
gum43@reddit
I remember my dad had this happen in the early 80’s. He worked for Wards. Him and my mom planned a Europe trip and his company said no I believe after everything was purchased. I was 8, so I don’t know the full details of the reasoning.
Ennuiology@reddit
I was told I had to wait 3 months to have back surgery because an important client contract was renewing. Other people could have handled it, but I was denied my leave because my boss felt like he owned me. Needless to say, I don’t work there anymore.
Sad-Requirement-3782@reddit
A quick, “Are you implying that I don’t want to work and don’t work hard?” will shut them up. Or, “are you saying that I am not entitled to the vacation time I was promised?” Businesses should not promise what they cannot deliver. My employer tells us the days when vacation is not available in advance.
HighJeanette@reddit
It’s MAGA bullshit.
Lakerdog1970@reddit
I hate the whole concept of “vacation time” and asking for permission.
I think I have ~500 hours in my vacation banks. I’m also hybrid and have a lot of flexibility.
On the other hand….i also haven’t not stirred my email in 15 years. My boss and my reports know to ping me via text 24/7. I’d much rather just text back “yes” or “nope” and have my projects proceed than have everything log jammed until I get back.
Tbh….work hours and vacation time has basically turned into permission to drink. You can still ask me questions. I might be drunk. I’ll still do my best to answer! If I don’t think I can…I’ll ignore the repeated texts or tell them I’ll respond tomorrow morning.
And if I respond: I’m accountable. Good decision, I get credit. Bad decision, I’m probably fired. Been like this for 15-20 years.
I just hate the wankers in HR getting in the middle of it. Managing “vacation time”. Useless and low skill people who are lucky to have a job.
And….i almost never ever bother my reports when they’re on vacation. I don’t expect them to be like me. But…they also can’t be me, lol. :)
FormicaDinette33@reddit
That’s ridiculous. That is probably the most common time to take a vacation. My company shuts down that week so we don’t have to use vacation time.
Mottinthesouth@reddit
Millennials acquired that “no work” generalization when they expected to enter the workforce into jobs they didn’t earn. Gen Z is entirely different. I’m super impressed with how talented this age group is! From what I’ve seen, they are aren’t afraid to work either. They are starting internships younger, earning degrees younger, and focusing on their goals a lot younger.
Liquid_Johnny_1988@reddit
baconring@reddit
50 year old here! It never changed. Work has always sucked. Companies suck and you should know they could care less about your vacation. HR sucks. They're all for the company, not the employee. This is your chance to realize that you should work to live, not live to work. Use your vacation days when you want. Your sick day's, personal time off, use it all!
HislersHero@reddit
I am glad I have never had to deal with this in any job. My company never denied unless I put in vacation time when too many other employees are out of I don't get time in within the allotted time frame of what I'm asking off. It's always been like that. I try to get my time in months in advance and consistent reminders to my supervisors leading up to it reminding them I will be off.
kraftymiles@reddit
*Shakes head in European
happy-gofuckyourself@reddit
I think now you might understand the younger generations’ rejection of our work ethic.
ezgomer@reddit
One of the main reasons I stay in my current position is because my PTO requests are generally approved. If not, it’s because it conflicts with someone else’s request and they got in before me.
I would find other employment and quit if they started denying me routinely.
Time off is part of a job’s benefits and if they don’t allow you to use the benefits, it’s akin to stealing pay in my eyes.
LittleMoonBoot@reddit
It sounds it’s the company and people you work for that’s the problem. Nobody should be guilt tripped for taking the time off they are entitled to. The fact that neither of those people took time off is THEIR problem.
Objective-Amount1379@reddit
This isn’t an age thing IMO. This is an issue at your company and it’s not unusual when you work for a smaller employer. Take your vacation days. Let HR be annoyed they’ll get over it (coming from someone who worked in HR lol)
rwphx2016@reddit
I've never had to get HR approval for vacation time. I ask my boss, get approval, and enter it into the timekeeping system.
This notion of equating taking a trip around the holidays with not wanting to work is ridiculous. Sounds like someone is on a power trp.
In one role, the vacation schedule would be circulated in order of seniority. Being a bank, we were required to take five consecutive days off each year. We had a couple of long-term employees who would deliberately take vacation time when they knew others wanted time off. (Think childless people who would ask when kids' spring break was scheduled and take that week off, forcing the parents to grovel for time off.) When I became manager, I changed the process. The team had a week to figure out the mandatory time off. The team appreciated being treated like the adults they were. No squabbles. Work was covered.
Efficient-Hornet8666@reddit
Dude…if it makes you feel any better, I’m about to hit 49 in a few weeks and just got a “final written warning” (which was also my first) at work for “avoiding work” because I couldn’t complete a task that I had just learned about in the time they gave me for it. It is my first “warning” in about 20 years. Like…sorry that I ran out of work hours to complete something I only just trained on, thanks for the disciplinary action on my record.
RandoFrequency@reddit
You need to document your side of this situation ASAP and also share with your local labor board.
Open-Illustra88er@reddit
Are they prepping to fire you? I’d document an objection to that.
Efficient-Hornet8666@reddit
I don’t know their full plan, but a formal objection document absolutely happened.
leftaide@reddit
This is why the younger generations seem like "slackers". They're not, they just work to the level of appreciation. They don't overwork, they don't try hard to make the boss like them, because they are aware that the company (big or small) doesn't give a fuck about them and would replace them without a second thought.
What you're describing yourself as is a person who either by nature or by whoopin', learned to be organized, to dot every "i" and to stay in line. You see now that this company doesn't appreciate you in the manner you deserve. So maybe slow down a bit. Don't stress about that report. Get things done, but don't rush.
And maybe start looking for a new job.
Claque-2@reddit
There are certain professions that can't take off holidays or year end. In fact, it is their craziest time. Payroll, healthcare, insurance, tax people, accounting, any and all retail. It's always assumed they can't take year end.
Of course, the avaricious want to extend that to other jobs so they can cut PTO hours completely out off the books. The way they have been doing it is by not allowing PTO hours to be used or carried over into the next year. I say that any or all PTO not used by yearend and not allowed to be carried over, should be paid out immediately on the last paycheck of the year. Taking that time is theft.
RandoFrequency@reddit
Was as Kate to a higher person over the HR rep. They’ll change tune very fast cos that’s highly illegal. You can turn down vacations for proper business deadlines and such, but to simply indicate that means you don’t want to work is WELL out of line and that person’s boss needs to be made aware.
Necessary_Team_8769@reddit
I’m like you, I check with my boss before a put in a PTO request and I’ve never been denied.
I wanted to clarify what your request was: Are you requesting 3 weeks off, over the entire holiday? At your workplace, is there minimum coverage required, like, if your take all of those days, does it limit other folks to take days-off during the holiday time?
If the answer is yes, then it’s not an issue of people not wanting to work or generational differences. It’s an issue of a pretty large pto request, over a sought-out time period. That’s why they’re having a hard time giving you all of your requested time period - because there are some people who wouldn’t be able to take “any” time-off over the holiday if your get it all. They’re trying to be fair to the whole group over the holiday season.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
Sorry for the misunderstanding. I'm requesting 6 days off. Combined with stat holidays, I will be off work from December 25th to January 5th. I was told that no one else outside one of the office staff has requested any days off for that time. The only issue I could see is that I've taken 8 days off, 4 days at Easter and 4 days at the beginning of August, already this year and based on when I took those days off, around stat holidays, I was off for just over a week each time.
Necessary_Team_8769@reddit
Oooooh, then WTF, they need to give you those effing days!!!
DiscountEven4703@reddit
C-19
tossitintheroundfile@reddit
This is a cultural issue. It’s like this in the USA, Japan, Dubai… probably some other places. In Europe, in many countries you are required by law to take your vacation.
I get five weeks plus holidays every year, and I’m only allowed to transfer ten days. Cashing out is not permitted. If I don’t take vacation my employer can get fined and I can get in trouble at work.
w3woody@reddit
I remember once putting in for a vacation request, getting it approved, buying the airplane tickets—all extremely far in advance (like 6 months out in advance), and then my manager changed. The new manager informed me that given the scheduling priorities they may need me to cancel the vacation that I had already bought airplane tickets for and made hotel reservations—about a month before my vacation.
I politely informed my manager that I was going, and the only question I had for him was should I come back when my vacation was over?
Same guy, different time, informed me that because he was my manager, “I owed him my job.” That is, that I owed him my loyalty and that I worked for him at his whim.
I loudly (loudly enough so that the rest of the folks in the cubicles could overhear, but not so loudly I sounded like I was shouting) informed him that if he did not like the quality of my work, he was free to fire my ass. (Yes, “fire my ass.”)
Guy didn’t really last that long as a software development manager. Last I hear he’s now in marketing.
sapphires_and_snark@reddit
Lucky marketing
Gibder16@reddit
I’d say good riddance and tell them having fun finding a millennial or gen z’er who will do the job as well and as seriously as you.
You deserve the time. When I retire, I want to take all my days owed to me and leave nothing on the table.
If people choose to not take their time off, then that’s on them. That’s not work life balance, it’s just stupid.
Magerimoje@reddit
Yep.
Not using earned days off is like giving them money (or giving them free labor). Use your paid days off, even if you're just sitting at home relaxing.
I always use the analogy of gift cards. If your job offered Visa gift cards for you to earn, and you got them, would you give them back? Of course not, you'd use them! So, use your earned paid time off.
Gibder16@reddit
Actually a perfect analogy. It’s given to you, it’s owed to you. Work your ass off (great), but take those days.
If you don’t, they are taking advantage of you and you are allowing them to do so.
Don’t feel guilty or question any of it. Life isn’t about work. Work hard and then enjoy yourself. There’s a balance that needs to be had.
Use it.
StormFinch@reddit
This was my thought, tell them that they've obviously gotten the Gens mixed up, and they need to re-look at who they're talking to. lol
Mean_Fae@reddit
I don't know, but in our 20's no one took time off, even when coughing up our lungs working in the service industry. Vacation? Hahaha. But then we got older and got real jobs with real benefits. I'd say half of my husband's gen X or older employees he manages have to be forced to take their vacation time.
IAmAWretchedSinner@reddit
Same experience here.
ambientdiscord@reddit
I left a job in 99 for getting approved for vacation and then having it snapped back three weeks out (expensive cruise that I couldn’t get a refund on).
Thinking about it, I had something similar happen in 92. Booked a trip to Rome after having time approved. A couple of weeks before hand, my bosses boss said I shouldn’t go because we had recently acquired another company and I just had to be there to help facilitate the merger (I was absolutely not needed as less than middle management). I went to Rome. They used it a year later as a way to reduce my raise. I left.
My dad had shit like that happen to him. This tent knew. It’s fucking capitalism 101.
WhiplashMotorbreath@reddit
Problem is they promote those with no lives, that put the job ahead of having a healthy work/life balance.
It isn't your problem that the hr lady hasn't taken a vacation, that is on her and her boss. But truth be told, even if offered the time off, she most likely not use it as , these type think the place can't run without them.
I am dealing with this with my direct manager and the location manager.
Younger workers, want to work. but unlike us, know their value. They are not going to work 60 hour weeks and still not be able to afford the rent.
They also grew up watching their parents that were loyal to a job, get shown the door or the owners sell the business and the new owners close it. They for the most part remember 2008-10 and the family that had busted their butts working, loose everything and not a think they could do about it. So many have the attitude, why bother. If I bust my ass to show my worth, And then ask for a raise, they get lied too, or told no. While the brown noser do nothing is making the same as them or more. They also seen, if a business gets Someone that applies and is willing to do the job for less than they are getting, the clock out the door has started and they now have a target on their backs.
Males also, worked to have a family, a life, and a home. they also watched that be ripped from their dads and granddads, or a friends dad/etc. So why bother when in a decade you are 60% or more, very likely to be living like your homeless and everything you worked for gone, including your kids. They are like, nope. rigged game, not play'n.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
You are definitely right that they think that the place can't run without them. My manager, 64 years old, puts in extra hours and even comes in on Sundays to do extra work for customers. I know that the HR person does not take vacation time because she feels that no one else can do her job adequately. If it weren't for the owner who, as I've said, is a really great guy, and some really great staff that I work with I would probably already be gone. I do watch the job market and other positions have come up.
WhiplashMotorbreath@reddit
I've talked to a few of our younger staff, and their attitude is, why kill myself, as soon as the economy take a turn, I get shown the door no matter if I cared about the customer/product/company doing well. I'm just a number on a spredsheet . And they are not wrong.
My direct manager, comes in sick, not little head cold sick, but flu type sick, getting everyone else sick, but because he does it, everyone should work even if on deaths door. When my parent died. I was told, I should be able to work as the wake and funeral are never held the hours we work. I wanted to knock the bastard out. As they threatened my job if I didn't work. Why, because that week was inventory.
Can't wait till they show that clown and the location manager the door.
MarionberryCreative@reddit
Idk. I have always treated vacation time as MINE. It isn't even a request. I am informing them I will be off for that period. I alway put in my "request" 30 days or more in advance. Usually have 80%if my vacation scheduled and submitted the first 10 days of the year, so I know my request get there first.. LikeI said I ain't requesting. I am taking that time off. If they don't like it they can replace me. Lol. [I have a specialed position in a niche trade.]
winelover08816@reddit
When you don’t have to worry about being homeless or starving to death if you lose your job, it’s easier to not care about work or the norms of working for a living.
Crossing-The-Abyss@reddit
Honestly, sounds like a company or worksite issue. I've never heard of your issue. Never heard friends or family complain either.
CalifGirlDreaming@reddit
I’m thinking the same. Maybe the company is having issues and there’s something going on they haven’t shared with you. Also, poor planning on their part for their vacation time is not your responsibility! I would start looking elsewhere.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
Lol I'm not leaving any time soon. The owner is a great guy and was happy to approve my time off.
KatJen76@reddit
If you're happy there and have a good relationship with the owner, you should tell him about the static you got from HR, and how demeaned and undervalued their remark implying you don't want to work made you feel. They'll turn the environment toxic for everyone if they're not stopped.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
Actually, I did see him at work and thanked him personally for granting the time off. He knows me, he regularly asks me how I'm doing, he seems to know that I don't like the current situation with working in two different positions and I think he's aware of what happened. I did have a talk with our payroll and office administrator about vacation hours, because the HR person implied I did not have enough, and I did mention that I was told that I might not get all of the vacation that I requested and she wasn't sure why that would be denied. I also had one of my supervisors tell me that he heard similar remarks from the HR person. So, it's not like nobody else knows what happened and I'm sure that has gotten back to the owner.
millersixteenth@reddit
IDK. I've worked with plenty of Xers who were a joke. I currently work directly with 2 millenials and while they take their breaks, they work pretty hard.
As for vacation, that sounds typical of smaller companies where they just don't have much coverage. All you can do is give plenty of notice. I'd also think about looking around for other work. Come a time they try to tell you "no" to a reasonable request, it might help greatly to have a sense of what it will take to replace the job.
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
I have continued to keep my eye on the job market while I've been working here. So far, I haven't had a really good reason to move and, quite frankly, they pay me as well as many, but not all, employers are willing to pay.
Personal_Bridge6115@reddit
I actually put in all of my scheduled leave at the beginning of the year. I don’t ask to take my vacation. I tried that once never again. I don’t think my work should be involved with my free time
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
I had to do that at a previous job in the healthcare industry and my brother has to do this at his government job. We weren't sure we were going to the East Coast at Christmas or any other time until my wife saw the seat sale though.
Mash_man710@reddit
It's stupidity of the highest order. Any business with half a brain knows that leave accrual is a liability. If they deny it and you leave then they pay you out for it anyway. Utter morons.
Just_Trish_92@reddit
Someone should let these employers know that it's the employee who DOESN'T want to take their vacation or sick time who is most likely to be stealing from the company. (Most embezzlement schemes need daily or near-daily attention from the perpetrator.) This is why many banks have long had policies requiring employees to take a certain amount of vacation in a single block every year, usually two weeks. (And if you've only been there long enough to have accrued two weeks of paid vacation, well, then, you're taking all your vacation time at once. No arguments; it's just how it is.)
cartoonchris1@reddit
When you turn in your resignation, makes sure everyone in the company knows why you left.
FruitDonut8@reddit
I’m glad I have not had an experience like yours. I’ve been at the same company for many years and their policy and treatment of vacation hasn’t changed.
Hooliken@reddit
I have worked myself into a management position, I manage skilled craft, so there may not be a direct correlation. One thing I tell all my folks is that we give them generous PTO, USE IT! I do not care if it inconveniences our work, the company, or myself. Work/Life balance is one of the most important aspects of a rewarding career.
You do not work in a healthy environment or have good coworkers/management if they have an issue with you using earned PTO.
DookieBowler@reddit
Since the 80s. I have never not gotten some form of pushback when trying to take a vacation. You get vacation when between jobs. I get “3 weeks” of vacation per year. My last vacation was 2 work days when my grandmother died 5 years ago. I mean yes you technically get a vacation but actually getting it approved and them not canceling it is the difficult part. Hell I’ve taken off for surgery and had to cancel before in the 00s.
robertwadehall@reddit
54 here, I usually a week off every quarter and the occasional Friday here and there (I have unlimited PTO). I’m in tech, and let my manager know well in advance my planned time off. I’m a tech lead and they try and not have multiple leads take the same week off, hasn’t been an issue for me. I’ve had a mix of contract and FTE over my career. On vacation this week, road trip and beach time in the Carolinas.
Sumeriandawn@reddit
There are a lot of shitty companies/employers out there. Why work hard for someone that treats you like a cog in the machine?
About 20 years ago I was a security guard. The company charged me a uniform rental fee. WTF?
Capt_Irk@reddit
I have never had a paid vacation.
Open-Illustra88er@reddit
I’m sorry. I didn’t for many years.
Goldie1976@reddit
I don't think it's a new thing. The first job I had with vacation, all requests had to go through the plant manager instead of the supervisors. Because the plant manager had an ego trip and liked to dick with people he didn't like.
After he was fired it went down to the supervisors to decide.
Open-Illustra88er@reddit
Whoa. A week and a half is all Your time? That’s less than most Americans get-so way bad.
Also we accrue and have earned our PTO. I defy anyone who gives me shit about taking my earned free time. I’m not your slave.
New job if possible. Fuck them.
DocMcCracken@reddit
Depends where you are at I suppose, my company gave me (and a few other managers) an extra week that doesn't carry over. Most of us had weeks that roll over, giving us a use or it lose it incentivized us to actually take vacation.
Kalena426@reddit
When you go to HR, tell them you will be taking whatever week off and you have non refundable tickets. Times have changed for sure
Bunnyfartz@reddit
"This vacation email is a notification, not a request." It's not your job to staff the office (unless it is your job, that is) to appropriate levels. You've got vacation time coming to you.
My 35 years of work has taught me that a company will fuck you if they can. I was a mercenary (aka, a contractor) for a few years. There was a freedom to that relationship. You buy 8 hours of my life. If you don't pay, I won't show up.
My current corporate masters are refreshingly human, but I won't forget the lesson.
kobuta99@reddit
That's sucks, and it shouldn't be that way. For what it's worth, I'm lucky to never have had that experience. I've worked in companies where during busy quarters they often will deny vacation time, but most employees are aware of the timing and are reminded to plan time off before the busiest quarter.
I think this is poor management, and a terrible work culture.
Emotional_Ad5714@reddit
I was laid off from my last job because I took off the last 2 weeks of the year, and after I hit my hours goal. Boss thought that only meeting and not exceeding my goals was a sign that I was only willing to do the minimum.
Now I work for the government and get 27 vacation days a year and have no problem using them all.
Sudden_Usual510@reddit
I manage a small team. Most of my team has asked for the holidays off this year. Nobody got denied. I've just told other teams to plan around us. It can be done. Older end of Gen X, btw, as is my team.
PlantMystic@reddit
Yes, stuff has changed. I did a stint as a seasonal holiday worker at a department store about 4 years ago. I did not even get my own interview. They interviewed about 4 of us at the same time. I thought, no way am I going to give out personal info in front of the others lol. Then, there was no training. None of us had training lol. Luckily I had done this kind of work before so I had an idea, but things had changed a little bit, which is ok but it was hard to figure out. I thought the managers there were untrained too, and uninformative. One of them was so unprofessional, I am still shaking my head at some of the stuff they said and did. I am surprised the place is still open.
TobylovesPam@reddit
Yup.
I hire younger people (late teens to mid twenties) because I love their energy and creativity. But holy sweet merciful Jesus Christ on a cracker can some of them be LOUSY employees.
When it comes to showing up on time, being respectful to the team about taking holidays, helping each other out when someone gets sick or needs time off.... crickets... nothing. If they don't wanna, they don't. If they want to go to India for a month, they go. Have a little teeny ^^"cough, ^^cough," better take a week off. And if they don't have a job when they get back, they'll get a different one. I really felt this a lot during covid. People just left. And funnily enough, this is my biggest hiring season and I've had three of those people slinking back asking for hours. Seriously? You left us high and dry to the point that 75+ families were impacted and we were in danger of losing our licence, so hell no...? Maybe kids this age (including my own!) live at home because it's too expensive to move out. I guess if you don't have rent and bill it's easier to just walk out if you want to.
I always wanted a good reference, I never wanted to leave a place on bad terms because my future employers may ask, "where were you during this gap on your résumé?" and when I'm hiring, I ask that!
Also I must differentiate between creativity in their actual job (the reason I hire them) and the creativity that comes from independent problem solving - which most seem to be afraid of. Many have the creativity to do their job fabulously but if the printer doesn't work or they don't know how to use the scheduling software they are utterly lost. They lack that, "K, let me figure this out" that seems to be innate in the genx crowd.
fredout1968@reddit
You work for a shitty company.. This is one of the ways we find out...
REDDITSHITLORD@reddit
IT'S MORE LIKE "I'M GOING ON VACATION, YOU WANT ME TO COME BACK HERE WHEN I'M DONE?". BUT I'M AT THE POINT WHERE REPLACING ME WOULD BE AN ABSOLUTE PAIN.
GeekyMom42@reddit
This was happening in early 2000's at my job. God forbid you use that vacation you earned, you know it'll roll over right. Well some of it will. And you have use that rolled over bit in the first quarter or it's gone. And no you will no be encouraged to use it before you loose it.
girlgeek73@reddit
I supervise a team of mostly millennials. I have never told anyone that they can't take vacation time. People accrue vacation time and so far as I'm concerned, that's their time to use whenever they want. My only rule is that I get a head's up about it of at least the amount of time they intend to take. (So if they plan two weeks, they give me two week's warning.)
stavago@reddit
A lot of horrible business decisions happened between Y2K, 9/11, and the Great Recession that we will never recover from
creativeusernameII@reddit
About the time they started calling it PTO instead of Vacation Time. Now you have to "earn" PTO, as opposed to Vacation Time which is a benefit people used to get for just being part of the business.
hisAffectionateTart@reddit
My husband works in IT and it’s been getting worse for nearly 30 years. This last year he had so much vacation time that they had to make an exception to let it roll over to this year. He still hasn’t taken it and probably won’t be able to take much of it. Every single time he’s been on vacation, he gets calls from work about things that can wait until he gets back and every single person thinks they should be “the exception.” Since Covid it seems like he can’t keep anyone in his department for very long. The “no one wants to work” seems to be the case. They get the job and really don’t do the job they are hired for. I feel this is why my husband gets no breaks! He at least used to get predictable time off but now it’s just never. No one seems to know how to do anything if he doesn’t hold their hands. And there’s no one better than those already at least trained to do the jobs. Most people get the job and act like they are going to start and ghost the company. It’s a small business and it’s awful. All hands on deck to bring in a new employee and they just don’t show. Makes me worry for the state of the world in the future.
GeoHog713@reddit
I don't think this is a generational issue or a workplace has changed issue. I think your HR person needs to get a grip
HR is there to facilitate what the managers want. If my VP says I can take vacation, HR doesn't not approve it. HR does the paper work.
D05wtt@reddit
Most of us are in our 50s and late 40s. We’ve been in the workforce longer which means at this point, we’re either in middle management or higher level management. Which means that we have more responsibilities and more important jobs that we’re doing than when we were in our twenties. So we work harder at these positions/jobs. Not to mention we have families that we support and put food on the table and electricity for the kids to scroll through their social media accounts. So we have to work harder.
The younger folk are still in the entry level positions. Their responsibilities are minor comparatively speaking and most likely they don’t have families yet. So are they working harder…maybe.
And don’t forget when we were starting out, computers and software were still pretty new. Cell phones were bricks and only the wealthy had them.
It’s just a different time for us than for them. I mean…kids today don’t even have to work in an office, they can work remotely. That, to me, is odd.
RevMen@reddit
Corporate has been gaining power since the 80s. Just look at a chart showing union membership over time for all the evidence you need.
I'm fortunate in that I have a career that allowed me to strike out and start my own business. I usually don't work anything like full time and I take all the vacation I want which is often 4 or 6 weeks a year. The fact that I can do this while still making more than I did while employed tells me how much profit ownership enjoys. And they ain't sharing.
thagor5@reddit
It is not. Only at bad companies. Vacation is prt of your compensation
JohnYCanuckEsq@reddit
Yeah, everybody's been squeezing as much time out of their employees as possible.
My wedding anniversary falls on the week of Black Friday. I'm a B2B Sales Manager who's product line may have Black Friday offers, but it's barely a blip on my radar. I chase bigger fish who aren't going to be swayed by a gimmicky sale.
Anyways, we've been married for 29 years and for the first time ever, last year I got pushback on taking that week off for an anniversary trip to Mexico. I told my boss (the owner of the company) that our marriage is older than Black Friday and if he has a problem with it, he could take it up with my wife. He knew better than to take on that challenge.
I've always showed up for work. Even during Covid, I was usually the only one in the office, and my sales performance has always been top of the heap. I'm a President's Club winner, highly respected among my peers and competitors, and you want to give me shit for having an anniversary at an inconvenient time for you?
I lost a lot of respect for my boss that day.
MyriVerse2@reddit
Most people that I've ever worked with were not like you.
aligatorsNmaligators@reddit
It's always been there. At shitty workplaces
Enough_Compote_8678@reddit
Over the years, work-life balance has become a more prominent topic, but paradoxically, some workplaces still struggle to embrace it fully. In your case, the push back on taking vacation might reflect the pressures of under-staffing or the evolving demands of small businesses. You're not alone in feeling that your dedication should be recognized without question, and it's important to advocate for that.
Remind your supervisors and HR that taking vacation is not just a perk but a necessity for long-term productivity and well being. You're not asking for anything extra, just the time you’ve earned. You might also highlight how well you've coordinated your time off in the past, balancing the company's needs with your own.
It may seem like this reluctance to approve vacations came out of nowhere, but small businesses can often face new financial or staffing pressures. If your company is struggling to find employees "who want to work," that’s more of a hiring issue than an employee issue. This shift might have nothing to do with your performance but with broader economic or workplace trends. Maybe a direct conversation could clear the air, focusing on how to maintain a positive work-life balance without hurting operations.
I have been in the land of wolves, so I am tempering my advice for normal human consumption.
sarkastikboobs@reddit
Sounds like that HR person needs to hear from your supervisors. They both approved and they would know what coverage is needed, so HR should just be an administrative rubber stamp (ie. to make sure the requester has enough time, etc.), not someone who can derail the request due to their personal opinion.
Salt_Honey8650@reddit
Management and HR, the double-headed most unproductive shits of the world, paid only to justify their own jobs.
Big-Sheepherder-6134@reddit
I have taken legit sick time when I was sick and when I got back I was told, “how was your vacation?” I left that shit behind almost 9 years ago. I can take off any day and as many as I want now MFers! I could work on Monday but maybe I won’t. I will just have to see. On the other hand I am open to clients every single day of the year and I love talking to all of them. I don’t consider most of job work anyway. Only if I have to make outgoing calls. But I could hire someone to do that for me.
rehabbingfish@reddit
This is why I retired early at 52 and moved to South America living much on 1500 a month and will bump it up when small pension, 401k and SS available. So sick of the dumbfuckery of working for others and what the US has evolved into.
Blurghblagh@reddit
Such a bizarre attitude for management to have, even when they don't need someone they can't stand the thought of them taking time off. Most western countries if you don't use your days towards the end of the year HR or your supervisor will remind you that you must take them, only a certain amount can be carried over to the following year. Not only are they covering themselves legally but they understand that not taking time off is bad for their employees which in turn is bad for the company, as is pissing off employees.
Emotional_Solution38@reddit
I’ve experienced the same thing.. it’s so different now.. Ageism is rampant as well.
AtikGuide@reddit
My workplaces ? They acted as though the employees, whether salary or hourly, were indentured servants — a serious attitude of, “We’re your employers, therefore you represent us at all times.” I’ve avoided workplaces, and refused promotions, because of the attitude of being available at all times, no matter what, even on vacation. When I’m on vacation, I’m NOT on call, I’m unavailable.
porkchopespresso@reddit
I have a pretty easy job. I guess I work hard in the sense that I’m reliable and have been there for about 15 years and I get the job done. My type of business is more laid back, considered to be in the “Outdoor Industry.” I have enough perspective to know I get paid well for an easy job compared to other people. Hopefully it doesn’t sound like I’m trying to brag about it because my point is if I had an actual hard job I doubt people would think of me as a model employee.
In this type of industry, work life balance and taking vacations is heavily encouraged. Benefits related to that are competitive and so taking time off is not something I’ve ever had to have any conversation about. As long as I’m not trying to book travel away during the very few times of year that would be problematic it’s rubber stamped.
SumoHeadbutt@reddit
I would say late 2010s to now friom my personal experience working in the same industry for over 25 years
But! I like it better how it is now though,
In the past, we the employees feared our enployers but today it's the other way around.
In the twilight of my career planning my retirement, I rather be in a position of strength today than go back in the era of fear
Coffey2828@reddit
I feel like this is a management issue. At my work, our department is the only one where any request for vacation is approved 99% of the time. I’ve never heard of vacation not being approved until we started getting more gen Z’s at work.
For the most part, my fellow Gen X’s in my department, try to get as much done as possible so the transition to vacation has minimal friction. I notice that is not the same with Gen Z.
rimshot101@reddit
It started about 20 years ago.
Roddy_Piper2000@reddit
That shit started in tne 90s. I was in the Canadian Oil & Gas industry. Taking vacation meant that I still had to be on call 24/7
CapotevsSwans@reddit
We shut down between Christmas and New Years. Huzzah!
Stunning-Flatworm612@reddit (OP)
Congratulations!! So does my wife's job which is a big reason she knew that she could get the tickets for her, the kids and her mom and dad.
PutPuzzleheaded5337@reddit
You have a great work attitude as do I, our parents and us survived some VERY serious recessions. Thanks for sharing your story and it’s great that your friends with the owner. HR is a cancer but unfortunately, it’s necessary…..humans are complex.
BununuTYL@reddit
I worked professionally for 33 years. I never had to ask for vacation time, I just told my team in advance of my time away so they could plan accordingly.
Tim-no@reddit
When I was managing a restaurant I had a millennial skip a shift because it was her dog’s birthday.
Optimal-Ad-7074@reddit
man, that's bitter.
it's been a thing in i.t. for as long as i can remember. there have always been these stupid, work-bonded folks who use self-betrayal as some kind of virtue marker. however, in i.t. there has always been a healthy contingent who took the opposite view: "work life balance yo. and fuck off with that kind of thing."
the self-referentiality of 'iiiiiiii choose not to take time, so iiiiii am the standard to meet' is a personality defect in the hr person. but that too has always been a bit of a thing. i have only been an employee for about five years out of my whole working life, precisely because i have the same kind of outrage over it that you have.