Do I need to clean my fuel system if I run premium?
Posted by Notacompleteperv@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 17 comments
2019 Nissan Maxima with 76,000 miles. Took the car in to look at a tire issue and do the multipoint inspection. They recommended flushing the fuel system and cleaning it since the car was over 75k miles. They quoted me about $300 for this service, which I denied.
I have only ever put premium fuel in the car and have kept up on all oil changes/maintenance. For this reason do I need to get my fuel system flushed per their recommendation?
Also, is there any real benefit to running premium fuel?
sfo2@reddit
If your car does not require premium fuel, there is no benefit to running premium fuel.
Notacompleteperv@reddit (OP)
Well, i started doing it when i first got the car because the fuel cap said "premium fuel recommended"
sfo2@reddit
Wow, on a Maxima.
Then, yeah, you should probably use premium. If you use regular, the car will sense it (most modern cars will) and make some changes to run a little worse - slightly reduced power and gas mileage. Not sure if the trade off is worth it there given the price difference to premium.
I’d probably use premium in this case.
Notacompleteperv@reddit (OP)
Wow thats interesting. As another commentor noted, regular 81 octane would have the most of the same additives as the premium higher octane fuel. So i wouldnt lose anything as far as the cleanliness of the fuel system goes if I switched to regular.
Maybe ill switch over and test out the performance to see if my daily driving habits warrent the more expensive fuel. As i understand it, if I were in sport mode and constantly drove like an asshole, then maybe the higher octane fuel would be necessary
Existing-Ad-9419@reddit
81? Where is that sold? Can’t get anything below 87 here in Canada.
WrenchesRUs@reddit
No, if the car calls for premium, you run premium. The car is factory tuned for premium. Yes, it can sense if you put regular in it, because the knock sensor will start going off, as in, it will start spark knocking, or, pre detonation. It will throw a check engine light as well. If the knock sensor doesn't catch it and de-tune itself, then you risk detonation. That happens when the fuel mixture ignites before it's supposed to. If that happens bad enough, then bye bye engine. There isn't a sensor to detect the octane rating of your fuel. It's just the knock sensor when the issue is already happening. It will retard the engine timing to try and fight the detonation or spark knock, which means it will run like shit, also hurting the engine long term
Running premium in a car meant for regular fuel does nothing. Running regular in a car that calls for premium is a bad bad idea. Run what the car calls for, and nothing else.
-Ex Nissan Tech. I was there when this gen Maxima came out and a few years after, and specifically dealt with this issue of customers running regular fuel in them then coming back wondering why the check engine light is on. Id look into it,and then go have a chat with the customer and eventually they'd admit they put regular fuel in it
Notacompleteperv@reddit (OP)
Oh holy shit thank you!
sfo2@reddit
Yeah do an experiment! Track your mpg and see how it goes.
P4Platipus@reddit
No. Just put (BP 98) 3 consicutive full tank and you good.
P4Platipus@reddit
Followed by use 91 or e10. Your car dont need 98.
MacMcMufflin@reddit
Ethanol doesn't clean carbon in any engine, and his runs on premium, you have to read his follow up comments. I don't think he knows what he has under the hood... Likely he's running a 3.5 L dual turbo V6. He needs premium.
traineex@reddit
Direct injection = necessary fuel system services. Get it done to prevent carbon buildup in the combustion chamber and premature engine wear. Modern valve trains get very dirty due to direct injection
Shell nitro-v premium for the win
Notacompleteperv@reddit (OP)
Does the nitro-v have any other additives that the regular fuel wouldn't? Resulting in a cleaner engine over time?
MacMcMufflin@reddit
yes, look for Top Tier (tm) certified fuels, it isn't just a Shell thing. They have a rating system that is above EPA standard. Shell, Costco, Exxon, Mobil, Citgo, 76 to name a few. BP fell off the list, Walmart nope, Super America nope, and off brand names are questionable. No biggy if you haven't been paying attention so far. I just learned this stuff today... If it keeps carbon from building up on my injectors, and reduces carbon in blowby, a few cents extra is going to extend my engine and turbo longer. I drive a WRX with a 4 cylinder direct injection turbo. I notice a subtle difference when I fueled up at a 76 or Shell station with premium.
https://www.toptiergas.com/gasoline-brands/
I suspect your Maxima has a 3.6 engine with a twin turbo. It sounds like fun car for it's size class... with great power comes more maintenance responsibility. But do enjoy it!
traineex@reddit
Yup
jokerswild_@reddit
"premium" is a very bad name for the high-octane fuel. It's pure marketing, to be honest.
Unless you're going to a real sketchy gas station or something, all the gasoline sold here in the US is going to have detergents, anti-wear additives, stabilizers, etc. in it. So your 87-octane "basic unleaded" and your 91-octane "premium" are going to be doing similar cleaning of the fuel system.
The higher octane fuel is designed for higher-compression engines (ie engines with turbos, etc) and will prevent predetonation (or "knock") caused by the higher compression. Basically Octane doesn't burn as quickly and the gas won't go boom too soon with the higher-octane fuels. However, Octane doesn't burn as easily as gasoline and therefore high-octane gas actually has "less bang for your buck". It's actually less efficient and you might even get lowered fuel economy if you run 91 octane in a car designed for 87 octane!!!
Bottom line: Look in your owners manual (or on the sticker on the inside of your fuel door if your car has one) and run the octane level recommended by your manufacturer. That'll give you the proper gas for your vehicle.
Now, having said all that, let's talk "flushing the fuel system and cleaning it" (which is unrelated to Premium as I mentioned). Flushing the fuel system should basically never be needed unless there's an actual problem. There is a fuel filter (usually mounted near the gas tank on most cars) that is designed to stop debris and gunk from entering the fuel system of the car. That filter may need replacing (and at 75K I'd recommend it as basic maintenance). Sometimes old fuel will "varnish" or start to thicken & go bad and can plug up fuel injectors etc. If that happens, then a flush and thorough injector cleaner may be needed. For basic maintenance though, it's overkill in my opinion. There ARE fuel injector cleaners you can buy at walmart, autozone, etc. that aren't a bad idea for general maintenance but they don't do a super deep clean (and they're like $5 a bottle, not $300 !!!)
Bottom line: a fuel system flush & deep clean is overkill for basic maintenance.
One counterpoint, however. Some newer vehicles use a new type of fuel injection called GDI (gasoline direct injection). I think the Maxima uses direct injection. This is more efficient than the older port injection, and provides more power with smaller engines. However there are some trade-offs. One of these tradeoffs is a tendency for carbon to build up on the back side of the intake valves and this carbon buildup can cause the valves to stick or the airflow to become turbulent and rob the engine of power. Cleaning these valves CAN be a good thing and improve your engines performance and reliability. That cleaning service can easily be around $300 and may be what your mechanic is referring to. This might be worthwhile for you if you plan on keeping your car for a long time.
The way it works is the fuel injectors will spray the fuel into the airstream that gets pulled into the engine cylinders prior to combustion. With the old port injection, it sprays the fuel in the airstream itself prior to the air entering the cylinder. This fuel/detergent/air mix washes over the intake valves as it moves into the cylinders and keeps them clean. With the new direct injection, the injectors are located with their nozzles INSIDE the cylinders themselves and can more-efficiently spray the fuel at the exact moment it's needed for combustion. This leads to higher horsepower and more fuel economy with smaller engines and is a good thing! But now the fuel/detergent/air mix is no longer spraying over those intake valves and they're not being cleaned like they used to with the older method. burnt fuel, carbon, and other gunk can build up on the valves now since they aren't being continuously cleaned every cycle.
What the mechanic will do then is usually called "walnut blasting" where they will open up the intake manifold and then usee a high-pressure air hose to spray a mixture of air and ground-up walnuts (or sometimes bits of dry ice) at the back of the intake valves. This scrapes off all that carbon & gunk from the valves. It's messy, difficult, and a little dangerous to do (if the valves are completely closed off, that walnut dust can get into the cylinder and wreck it next time you try to run the engine) which is why it costs $300+ to do.
Notacompleteperv@reddit (OP)
Ahhh, thank you. I think the valve cleaning is indeed what they were referring to. I appreciate your in-depth explanation and thank you for sharing your wisdom.