Pre 9/11 optimism in the West starterpack

[-]

I would counter that Muslims were constantly terrorists in media, particularly action movies and videogames like counterstrike. Friends and Seinfeld had been over for 3 years. The dot com bust has us wary about stocks and we weren't yet over y2k fatigue.

[-]

jacksonmills@reddit

I won't disagree with you post 9/11 but CS came out in 2000 and the first version of CS (not CS2) mostly had guys with masks over their heads; even for the Counter-Terrorists. It was hard to know what nationality they were. No one I played with associated them with Muslims.

From my memory the most common antagonists in movies, even in the 90s, were mostly Russian or German.

I wouldn't mind hearing examples to the contrary, I don't mind being educated here, but for me, the "Muslim hate" really started after 9/11. My best friend, who is Muslim, honestly told people he was Muslim up until that point, and met me in 2002; he didn't tell me he was Muslim until 2006.

I would be interested in other examples, but I just remember shooting Nazis and thinking Germans were villains.

[-]

Devium44@reddit

The Siege (1998)

[-]

xt0rt@reddit

Libyans from BTTF is the first one off the top of my head.

[-]

jacksonmills@reddit

Right but are they called out as Muslim in the movie? I don't remember that

[-]

NightWriter500@reddit

True Lies

[-]

QuixoticCacophony@reddit

Friends ended in 2004.

[-]

theshub@reddit

Espiescally?

[-]

ThresholdSeven@reddit

There wasn't spell check back then

[-]

CactusHide@reddit

Man… it’s kind of wild to think I went from doing mushrooms on NYE 2000 and laughing off the millennium bug thing that never happened with a girlfriend, to consoling a different GF of about a year on 9/11/2001, and having that long drive home where things felt very fucky. Living close-ish to a power plant meant we got a lot of pamphlets and iodine pills (I think), which sat in that cupboard as a reminder that things were different.

Even prior to 9/11/2001 and during the late Clinton era, the Taliban were doing a lot of things, and I remember their destruction of historical sites and statues getting some decent coverage leading up to 9/11/2001.

While the world was changed forever after that, I felt like the impending action in Iraq had me a little more on edge. One night really hit me, and changed a lot of perspectives I had on the world in general.

That night was the first night where the US did heavy bombing in Baghdad in 2003.

[-]

Ill_Athlete_7979@reddit (OP)

I remember my 18th birthday was a few days after 9/11. One of the managers at my job told me “just the time to get drafted”. In my mind I thought it was going to be another Vietnam. At that time I didn’t know much about Afghanistan the country and I’m not going to pretend that I paid attention to the news during the 90s like other commenters in this sub, but after that happened I became more conscious about what was going on around the world.

[-]

GM_Nate@reddit

I remember back in the first Matrix when the machines said they'd chosen the late 90's as being the pinnacle of human civilization, and I thought about how poorly that'd age...well I think I get it now.

[-]

Sumeriandawn@reddit

Wasn't the 80s considered the optimistic and happy-go-lucky decade?

Wasn't there a lot of cynicism and nihilism in the 90s?

Grunge, Gangsta Rap, Korn, Nine Inch Nails, Radiohead, Marilyn Manson, Rage against the Machine, Pantera

[-]

AliveInIllinois@reddit

Um, no?

Muslims were absolutely stereotyped as terrorists and discriminated against. And the middle east was not seen as peaceful. Also, how far "pre" are you trying to go on this, because you've got a lot of 90s stuff in here.

[-]

Ill_Athlete_7979@reddit (OP)

I didn’t make this, but I thought this would make for interesting conversation. I agree that there was media such as True Lies, the Siege, Air Force One that depicted Muslim stereotypes.

[-]

Sumeriandawn@reddit

Muslims were blamed for the Oklahoma City Bombing

[-]

jacksonmills@reddit

True Lies did feature specifically Muslim terrorists in the Crimson Jihad; I forgot about that. Air Force One was about neo-Soviets tho; the theme there was more communism vs. capitalism.

The Siege is a little weird, there are definitely Muslim elements to the movie but both sides (outside of America being the battleground) are Muslim (Sunni Saddam Hussein and Shia Anti-Hussein). The movie also has a few moments where operatives admit helping out the terrorists because they thought it was the right thing to do, and a few of the ancillary protagonists are also Muslim.

Not saying it's great but, honestly I can list off ten movies off the top of my head that had Russians/Germans as the enemies in the 80s/90s pretty easily. I think it's still valid to say it got a lot worse after 9/11.

I also think that assuming that things were the same pre and post 9/11 kinda diminishes the shitty stuff Bush and his allies did in terms of turning all of America against Muslims.

[-]

TheJustBleedGod@reddit

It was great when the worst thing in the world at that time was that our president got a blowy/handie from his secretary. Didn't know it back then but we were living in such innocent times

[-]

achieve_my_goals@reddit

I remember the day I realized I spent more time in this century than the one before.

That was a shitty day.

[-]

Gunter-Karl@reddit

I keep reading about how optimistic everything was in the 90s, but I didn't experience it that way. All of the media/culture I was interested in was telling me that everything was fucked up. My attitude was basically "whatever. We're all screwed anyway." Increasing corporatism, the rise of the relgious Right, rampant and accepted misogyny, homophobia, and racism... everyone was "selling out."

The late 90s especially felt kind of nihilistic to me. I definitely wasn't watching Friends .... I was listening to Marilyn Manson, Slipknot, Tool, and Eminem, watching ECW, The X-Files, and South Park, reading Punk zines, alt newspapers, and Herman Hesse or Kurt Vonnegut. Bill Hicks and George Carlin were like gospel to me.

Guess I was just an angry young man. Lol.