How stupid would it be to buy a used luxury car with a $25k budget?
Posted by EvilDarkCow@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 70 comments
Years ago, I worked as a porter-ish at the local luxury dealership group. Every day I drove new BMWs, Mercs, Lexuses, Audis, Porsches, Jags, and so on. Great interiors, and I love the way they all drive. And at the end of the day, I'd hop in my old reliable, but beat to absolute hell First Gen Ford Focus that my bosses advised to park out of view from the street (may she rest in peace), and say to myself, "I want one of those".
Well my old reliable Focus was eaten by a Jeep in 2020, for the last 4 years I've had a 2014 EcoBoost Ford Fusion. At 118k miles, it's falling apart and needs about $4000 in just suspension and brake work, though I admit I've been neglecting it a little (let's just say she's had a couple extended oil change intervals because I'm lazy). I'd fix it all and keep going if the engine and transmission both weren't notoriously unreliable even without my neglect. Frankly the anxiety that this thing will grenade itself is killing me, and as a result, the car does not leave town anymore. And of course, it's only worth about $4k on trade at a dealership.
So I'm in the used car market again, this time for my forever car, with a budget of around $25k USD. I'm looking for something I can take to at least 150k miles that won't totally suck my finances dry, that handles well in both the daily commute and a long highway trip (and I love my weekend road trips), that won't keep me up at night worrying about problems, and I won't get bored of. I'm looking for comfort and peace of mind. I'm really trying to go 2020 or newer. My top contender has been a well-equipped 2022-23 Mazda CX-30, something a little nicer than most Toyota offerings but still not "luxury", but I can't help but gawk at those same BMWs, Mercs, and Lexuses that I fell in love with years ago.
My budget would allow for a 2020-21 BMW 228i, 330i, X1, or X2; 2020-21 MB GLA or lower trim C-class; or a 2017-18 Lexus ES350. Carmax seems to be flooded with the aforementioned BMW models, but Lexus pickings are slim.
I've only known one person who owned a BMW, a cousin of mine, who scrapped an E46 because every time he turned around something else was broken, and he couldn't afford to keep fixing it. But more recent models are supposed to be more reliable, right? ... right? On the other hand, I have family who will only ever buy Toyota or Lexus.
I know the old saying goes, "there's nothing more expensive than a cheap luxury car". I know I would be able to depend on a Lexus for a good long while but the ones in my price range are just a little older than I wanted to go, I know I could trust that Mazda and still have some factory warranty left, though not quite as fancy (and let's be real, that's what I should do). But, theoretically, how badly would I be screwing myself if I picked up a just-out-of-warranty, $25k BMW or Merc, with the intention of owning it for about 10 years?
Recent_Tear6025@reddit
Lexus. Next.
yootapo@reddit
Their boring.. NEXT.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
Lexus has by far the most reliable new and used cars. ...and that is the entire point of the OP's post.
Until you get a lot farther down the food chain boring is GOOD. Although I'm truly shocked to see Mini's new car ratings. Next.
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars? - Consumer Reports
Which Brands Make the Best Used Cars? - Consumer Reports
yootapo@reddit
Still boring compared to their competition, they’re only good for reliability & comfort, not performance or FUN.. NEXT!!
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
Right. The LC500 is boring and has no performance. Only 471hp and 4.4 seconds to 60. For under $100K it's also an amazing VALUE and light years ahead of the competition when it comes to styling.
yootapo@reddit
& it’s PLENTY of cars in that price that’s quicker/faster, more luxurious, also newer technology & styling is SUBJECTIVE so I’m debating that (it looks good tho)
Recent_Tear6025@reddit
They’re ultra reliable. This guy is a pocket pincher, reliable is the safe option for him. I was in the car business for many years, Lexus is without a doubt the most reliable Luxury car out there.
bcsublime@reddit
They are more boring than some for years and decades. The cost of ownership is certainly something to keep in mind.
If you plan to maintain a car until the wheels fall off, Honda and Toyota (Acura/ Lexus)are the only true options.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
Even as a Honda tech and owner, this is a gross exaggeration and is only true with a series of caveats with maintenance. There is no easy choice for assured longevity, that only comes with proper maintenance. Of course I agree that Hondas are much, much easier to keep maintained than anything else (Toyota does not deserve that same label IMO), but they still have their own issues that can and often do lead to premature failure. And just like everyone else, the current crop of models do not inspire much confidence in me long term.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
Even as a Honda tech and owner, this is a gross exaggeration and is only true with a series of caveats with maintenance. There is no easy choice for assured longevity, that only comes with proper maintenance. Of course I agree that Hondas are much, much easier to keep maintained than anything else (Toyota does not deserve that same label IMO), but they still have their own issues that can and often do lead to premature failure. And just like everyone else, the current crop of models do not inspire much confidence in me long term.
NothingLift@reddit
More boring than a cx30?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
I'll toss something else out. A Chrysler 300, they're a cross between a Merc and an American muscle car and available AWD.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
In terms of reliability Chrysler's are #30 - dead last - among 30 brands:
Which Brands Make the Best Used Cars? - Consumer Reports
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Consumer reports reliability ratings are bullshit. And comparing brand but ignoring model or options is even more bullshit.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
Yeah, a sample of over 330,000 owners is pure bullshit. They DO compare models in depth.
Believe what you want about the worst piece of rolling crap on the planet - ANYTHING made by Chrysler.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
OK you trust a rag that you pay to deceive you. I'll trust decades of professional experience.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
Interesting. I've been an A&P (Airframe and Powerplant) mechanic for over 40 years. Yeah, I return passenger jets to service. They don't fly until I've signed off on them.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Interesting that you think that's relevant.
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
It's relevant because I have in-depth knowledge of engineering and military specification components. I manage an aviation repair facility and have 15 highly trained mechanics reporting to me.
What's REALLY interesting is that Chrysler is still at the bottom of the rankings for new cars as well. They are the turds of the automotive world.
Enjoy your ride!
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
If you knew what you're talking about you wouldn't be relying on CR to do your brainwashing for you. You know the specifics yourself, but you don't.
EvilDarkCow@reddit (OP)
Actually, my dad is on his second one (though involuntarily). He had a 2019 300 Limited that he loved with all his heart. He got in a tangle with a red-light-runner last month and the other driver's insurance screwed him hard. They paid it off and that was it, leaving him to buy another car out of pocket. He admitted defeat and bought a base 300, also a 2019.
I can't deny it's a nice car in and out, even the base model. Seems to be a little more reliable than other Chrysler offerings.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Well we may have a winner. Mine treats me very well, I think it's a near perfect car.
Cool_Butterscotch_88@reddit
es350 or avalon?
ameslay1211@reddit
The 2020 and newer BMW 330s are great cars and have been very reliable. That said, you need to plan on at least $500-1,000 in maintenance and repairs 1-2 times a year. If you want the car to last, when the dealer says it needs something, then you pretty much have to do it. If you don't then it will start falling apart and you'll eventually get stuck with a $10k repair bill. It doesn't take much to get to a $10k repair in any German or Uropean luxury car.
If you want something that's nice and is also going to be cheap to maintain, get a Japanese car. Get an XSE Camry or something like that.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
I have a friend who bought a cheap F30 320i Xdrive (2014 for $10-12k). He was only able to swing it because he DIYs most of the maintenance and repairs. He did his drive belt and alternator when they died, he and I did his wastegate actuator, he did his brakes, door lock actuators, and driveline fluids (including that stupid pan/filter assembly for the ZF 8 speed).
Another friend almost exclusively drives old Benzes. His daily for the last 6 years has been a 2008 E350 4Matic that currently has 280k miles on it and before that, he dailyed a 1999 C280 that has 220k miles on it (he still has it, he just keeps it as a backup). He also does his own maintenance and repairs, although 90s and 2000s Benzes are actually pretty easy to work on for the most part. And he's had the C280 for 13 years (it was his daily and only car for about 8 years)
It can be done for cheap IF you are capable and willing to be a DIYer. However, you can't cheap out on parts with these cars, it will cost you more long term. If you're serious about this, the forums and FCP Euro are your friends. Otherwise be prepared to pay extra for either dealer or specialty shop labor.
I'm also gonna buck the trend and say that Lexus is overrated, especially for the absurd price you'll pay used. Lexuses have their issues like any other car and they're not especially easy to work on either (I'd rather work on that F30 than most modern Lexuses as a mechanic myself).
Hot_Block_9675@reddit
Here's the straight poop on Lexus reliability. Number one in new and used vehicles. The data doesn't lie:
Who Makes the Most Reliable New Cars? - Consumer Reports
Which Brands Make the Best Used Cars? - Consumer Reports
SkylineFTW97@reddit
I don't care about those surveys. That isn't relevant to what I'm talking about. The data is also comparative, not absolute.
Nisiom@reddit
Option 1: Spend 25k on a 2020 luxury sedan filled to the brim with expensive tech, and see how it ruins your life when every little niggle costs 1k to fix.
Option 2: Buy a late 90's/early 00's pristine sedan for 10k with far less to go wrong, and spend the remaining 15k keeping it in absolutely perfect condition for the next decade.
Get yourself a well looked after supercharged Jaguar XJ/XK and you will find automotive happiness well within your budget.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
This needs clarification.
As a multiple-time and current Jaguar owner, the only supercharged (V8) Jaguars that are relatively economical to run are the mid-aughts ones with the 4.2-liter supercharged V8, the gen. 2 engine. That’d be the 2003-2008 (X200) S-Type R, the 2003-2006 (X120) XKR, the 2009 (X250) XF, the 2007-2009 (X150) XKR, and the 2004-2009 (X350/6/8) XJR.
And even then, they still have fiddly bits that go wrong. The X350-series XJ’s air suspension is a known sore spot, though plenty of kits exist to retrofit aftermarket struts or convert it to coilovers altogether.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
I saw a timing chain replacement on those 5.0s. That seems just deliberately obtuse to replace.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
It is. And the 3.0 supercharged V6 is no better, because it is entirely derived from the V8 and even uses the same block…just with shorter heads, a bunch of unused space at the back from the two missing cylinders, and balancing shafts to make the whole 90-degree V6 thing work.
I have a 2015 LR4 with the V6, and that’s the one thing that I haven’t needed to do, only because the chains had already been replaced when I bought it. But it’s been a real problem child.
The reason for the chains is that Jaguar Land Rover told new owners to change the oil “when the computer tells you to.” Well, the computer would tell them to do so at 14K- or even 20K-mile intervals. Which is bad enough on its own (I wouldn’t do that to a fucking Camry, unless it was a hybrid, let alone a JLR engine). But these engines have oil-driven tensioners, which would fail to keep the chain tensioned properly as the oil got older. On top of that, the guides were faulty. Over time, the chains would slacken and begin slapping loudly, and then eventually jump a tooth or something, and the pistons and valves would get super chummy. You could mitigate this issue with 7K-mile oil changes from new, but none of these cars is new and few will have been treated that way. Otherwise, budget $5K-$6K for a shop to do this.
Allegedly, some of the very early Jaguar (but not Land Rover) 5.0-liter cars have a chain system from a different vendor that was far less susceptible to stretching or failing…but I wouldn’t bet on finding one. You can see some of the chain (and check for slack) if you take the oil cap off, though.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
Timing chain engines need SHORTER intervals, not longer ones. Even 7k is way too much IMO. I'd only do 5k if I strictly did highway miles. The Hondas I work on also suffer timing chain failure with extended oil changes (and yeah, don't exceed 5k), granted it's way easier to do the chain on a Honda K24 or L15. And timing belts aren't as bad as most people think to do. A J series belt is super straightforward and painless. Most of us Honda techs can do them in 3 hours vs a 7.5 hour book time.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
Yep. That’s why no one complains about, say, the Toyota/Lexus 4.3- and 4.7-liter V8 engines, which have belts. Change the belt every 90K (and may as well do the water pump while you’re in there), and you should be good. Timing belts rarely break unless abjectly neglected.
Or, you could do what Volkswagen did on the 5.0-liter V10 TDI and make a complex Rube-Goldberg mess of gears directly linking the camshaft and crankshaft. I’m sure the diesel clatter covers up the noisy gear system. Strike that…I’m sure the fact that they’re always broken means you never have to hear the noisy gear system.
Ironically, my first car was a 1990 Honda Accord EX, a hand-me-down. And it did meet its demise because the timing chain snapped. But that was in 2012 and it had been sitting around for 6 years before being pressed into daily use suddenly. And none of us knew about car maintenance at the time. I can’t blame the car at all for our ignorance.
SkylineFTW97@reddit
Yeah, the water pump is a service item on timing belt engines, hence why they rarely fail. And no reputable shop will do the belt without it, I wouldn't. Even as a side job.
Nisiom@reddit
I think the most reasonable cars are the X308 XJR, and the X100 XKR. Anything earlier can feel a bit dated for a lot of people, and anything after starts getting progressively more complex and consequently more expensive to run. These two are notoriously reliable if well maintained, especially in 4.2 form with the nikasil issues resolved.
S-Type R is also an option, but the styling can be polarizing, and honestly with a budget of 25k, one might as well go for the top line Jags of the era.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
I’d just go ahead and avoid the 4.0 wholesale, only because the 4.2 was so much better. That would eliminate the X308, but would catch the last half of the X100.
Nisiom@reddit
If you can get the CATS sorted on the X350, they are also excellent cars.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
Yep. I’ve had two of those.
Really, you’ll probably just kiss CATS (which is the active damping part, not the air strut itself). Of course the X350-series came with CATS, but none of the aftermarket air struts have it (they just simulate the effect with a coil to keep the car’s computer happy) and the OEM Bilstein struts are prohibitively expensive and getting rare.
I can’t even think any X350 with realistic mileage is still on its original struts, at this point, either.
dlax6-9@reddit
Only caveat would be to look at +/- 2004 and up. No tech overkill, most of the airbag issues sorted, and all of the key safety features needed. CarMax is generally overpriced vis-a-vis other options, and you'd be well served to get a good third-party inspection on anything you are seriously considering.
trooper5010@reddit
I agree with this, but what about one that can support a good car audio system? Something like a couple 9" full range speakers?
dlax6-9@reddit
Totally biased but a Quattroporte V will check that box. The infotainment system is nothing special, but there's plenty of room in the car to modify the sound system...and more than enough engagement from the rest of the car (and exhaust rumble) so driving with the radio off is just as pleasant. Post-facelift models can be had in OP's price range, and the engine and transmission are pretty freaking bulletproof.
Ambitious_Art_723@reddit
The cars you are looking at aren't old so no reason you should expect big maintenance bills if they haven't got any hidden issues. Ive been running a BMW 640d cab for the last 8 years or so . I bought it at three years old ex lease with 30k miles on it.. and it's been pretty much faultless, just normal servicing and not much more. It's now got about 70k miles on it. You should expect similar from a modern three year old car that hasn't done a vast amount of miles.
However that car is now up for sale and I've just bought a 2008 Aston Martin vantage.. Its in good condition but I'm fully expecting 2k+ a year on maintenance.
mikeumd98@reddit
Genesis g70
Lopoetve@reddit
It depends. How much do you like 2-4k maintenance bills?
Source: owned several late model out of warranty BMW and Audi. They’re reliable (almost always, a few models aside), but they take very regular care and feeding, and said feeding is NOT cheap compared to much of anything else. The fancier the more expensive for routine maintenance, unless you’re doing it yourself (spark plugs on my N63TU were $1800, every 40k miles, flex plate is 1800 every 25-35k, and so on). It never once stranded me. Loved it to death. It costs to keep it running like that though - and the moment you cross about 85k miles the value just tanks.
Get a Lexus.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Flex plate is a wear item?
Lopoetve@reddit
Yup. And the diff bushings on the 2012-something 5 series. You burn through one or the other every year or so. I went through 4 in 85k miles. It’s a fully rubber plate and tears over time.
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Ohh you mean the flex disk in the driveline. The flex plate is between the engine and transmission.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
Also known as a giubo.
Lopoetve@reddit
Derp. It’s 10pm and I’ve had beer?
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Still though, that's a lot of wear parts.
Lopoetve@reddit
Oh yes. I was truly averaging 4k a year. 10 years old, 64k-115k over the last 40 months, and it cost 4k a year.
I traded it in when I realized the second set of major suspension parts were going out from age ($2500 a corner, adaptive suspension), I was due up for plugs (see above), a diff bushing was definitely going to need replacement, and I knew I had deferred the upper oil pan for two years and it was starting to get worse ($5400).
Sold the car for 7k. I was estimating 12k in service work. Best value would have been 10-11k. Not worth it!
But I did get 85k of reliable, fun service out of it!
Heavy_Gap_5047@reddit
Yeah I'm a capable mechanic who could do the vast majority myself and I still see no reason to own any German car.
EvilDarkCow@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's kinda what I thought. That being said, a nice Lexus sedan is kinda my dream car, but to get an ES350 in my price range would mean going down to 2017-18, which is a little older than I wanted to go, I don't want to pay it off just in time for it to be 10 years old. But I guess there's a reason they hold that value so well and so many people swear by them.
I should probably just stick to the Mazda, best bang for the buck by far, but my dad always says I have a wine taste on a beer budget, and he might be right.
Lopoetve@reddit
The ES is effectively a Toyota Camry. Go check Avalons - it’s a Lexus Toyota, basically, with the same engine and many many options.
And WAY cheaper as it was seen as an old man car.
bearded_dragon_34@reddit
Well, more like an Avalon, technically, since the ES adopted the Avalon’s larger wheelbase in MY2013, but yes; they are all mechanically identical and variants of the same thing.
The ES is just about the lowest-cost-of-ownership luxury car out there, especially the ES 300h that’ll do 43+ MPG.
UpsetHyena964@reddit
I have a 2018 mazda 3 that we got when it was around 6500 miles. we just crossed 83k miles on it. For fuel efficiency alone and just how it feels to drive, mazda is a great vehicle. Above all else, and like others have stated, when you know how to fix your vehicle, you will save tons of money. I am not mechanically inclined, unfortunately, so I pay others who are more intelligent in that area to do it for me. Just because I like to stay on top of maintenance, I took my vehicle down to midas (it'll cost a little more up front, but they offer really good warranties) for the rear brake pads and rotors it cost right around $480 and the front will cost the same. Shocks and struts run $800+ tax for the front and ~$600 for the rear struts and shocks. So that works out to be ~$2,500 in maintenance that comes with a lifetime warranty on those specific parts for as long as I own the vehicle. Also, outside of tires, these are literally the only parts I have had to replace on the vehicle so far. In all fairness to mazda, though, I grew up in the countryside and drove the mazda 3, where the cx series would have been better.
marzi13boi@reddit
Get a 2018-2020 Genesis G80. It has almost as much features (if not more) as the cars that you have mentioned yet you can find a decent one in your budget. They’re quite reliable.
You can also look at 2016-2018 W205 C Class or W212 E Class (between 2014-2016 preferably). Both are relatively reliable cars, but as someone else has said the upkeep cost will still be higher than a regular car. Other options would be an earlier G30 5 series, Genesis G70, and Lexus IS.
Ok-Seaworthiness-542@reddit
Emotional attachment to a car very often leads to questionable financial decisions.
Do yourself a favor and check how much insurance is going to run.
Forever car?!?
Josey_whalez@reddit
I’ve had great luck with my Infiniti. Had it for 4 years, put 100k on it with no issues, at 134k total. I have a year left on the warranty and I’m really hesitant on keeping it due to turbo issues these things are known to have. I’d recommend you get a Lexus if you want a ‘forever’ car with some luxury. Try to find something with a CPO warranty. Buying a used, out of warranty BMW or Mercedes can get expensive, quick, even if you take care of it. I’ve been amazed at how cheap you can get an S class that’s still pretty new. According to buy a used S class is one thing, keeping it on the road long term as a daily driver is another.
PhattyMcBigDik@reddit
Infiniti is a slept on brand my dude. They're great cars. I've never had an issue with them, and I've owned 2. I had a g35 and a g37. Fantastic fucking cars. Parts aren't too expensive, relatively easy to work on, and they're just solid, robust cars.
One note there tho. Infiniti is Nissans luxury brand. Nissan is not anywhere close to as decent as Infiniti. Most Nissans are garbage. If anything has a cvt in it, you'll have about 30k miles before you need a new transmission. 30k from rolling off the factory floor.
ToThePillory@reddit
Lexus.
LeadfootYT@reddit
Those options are expensive to buy and own with little reward. Go big or go home. $15k proper luxury car with $10k maintenance budget.
SouthernExpatriate@reddit
Lexus. Got Toyota guts so more reliable.
Upstairs_Wishbone_88@reddit
There’s a reason these cars depreciate the way they do.
In short: very stupid
efnord@reddit
BMW i3?
gallaggr@reddit
Check out the Lexus ES250’s. They have the Toyota 2.5L 4cyl and AWD. From what I can tell, the depreciate faster than the ES350’s
SSNs4evr@reddit
I'll stick with my old reliable Ford. I just spent $300 on new spark plugs, coilmpack sleeves, and fuel injectors, and it running like new. No rust, no rattles, and only 213k on the odometer.
coffeebribesaccepted@reddit
The BMW 228 and 328 should be pretty reliable. The best part is the CarMax warranty, which is probably worth getting. Oil changes and routine maintenance will be a bit more expensive, but these aren't like the older turbocharged BMW engines that had a lot of issues. My choice would probably be an Audi A4 for the interior and AWD, but the bmw 228 is probably the most fun. Or the Lexus is. I find the gla pretty ugly but that's just my opinion..
Anyway, Lexus is probably the most reliable, but the modern base level German engines aren't unreliable like their reputation.
sparkey503@reddit
1 Lexus 2. Mercedes and I wouldnt even consider a BMW taken in what you have said. Mercedes will still be higher in routine maintenance than the Lexus. Also if AWD sets you over budge. A good set of Snowflake tires will help. We had an ice storm in my area a year and a half ago. Talking hundreds of cars parked in the side of the highway but the Kia Optima (FWD) and Snowflake tires chugged along. Didn't get stuck made it to where we needed to go 40 something miles away from home.
Worried_Target5477@reddit
Buy a luxury car be prepared to pay luxury maintenance and repair.