Is Linux really the solution to Windows?
Posted by Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 177 comments
I have recently tried Ubuntu both in a virtual machine and on an old laptop, and I was surprised by how much I could do with almost no knowledge about the OS and without opening the terminal. I was also very surprised by the speed and responsiveness of the OS in general.
This makes me very tempted to switch to Ubuntu as a daily driver, especially as the list of Windows apps and games that are also being developed for Linux, or that work with popular compatibility layers (Wine, Proton, etc.), is constantly growing. Unfortunately, though, I closely rely on Microsoft's Office suite for work with classmates, and after trying LibreOffice, Wine, and the web version of Office 365, nothing compares to the native Windows app.
What is Linux missing?
Why are so many people/organizations still relying on an old and outdated OS like Windows?
How long will it take for people to realize that Linux is the better choice?
ronaldtrip@reddit
You said it yourself. The apps people like are missing. Nobody cares for Windows for the sake of Windows. If all the apps ran on Linux, there wouldn't be a barrier.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
So, you think Microsoft is not developing office for linux so that people need to continue to buy it's OS?
seems like something that the EU should regulate
BobT21@reddit
I do just fine running libre office (free) on Windows and Linux platforms.
ceantuco@reddit
I use libre office as well but let's be honest... Excel is much better lol I use Excel at work.
erwan@reddit
I use Google Sheet at work (and at home) and for me that's the best spreadsheet there is.
To each his own!
ceantuco@reddit
problem with Google sheets is well you are giving your information to Google to review lol
anominous27@reddit
I agree, to me at least that's not a problem at work. If it is to you then by all means, use whatever your work wants you to and get paid. For myself at home libreoffice calc is more than enough, I really don't know what you'd need excel for at home.
but I guess of you're worried about privacy, it's not really like excel is much better thsn google spreadsheets so...
ceantuco@reddit
If my work used Google Sheets instead of Excel, I would not have a problem. It is all work stuff. For personal, I do not want to use Google Sheets thus, I use libre office. I use it for budgets, keep track of bills, etc.
BobT21@reddit
In what way is Excel better than Libre Calc? I used Excel at work and Libre at home.
ceantuco@reddit
for starters, Excel GUI so much nicer lol
primalbluewolf@reddit
Huh, not the one I was expecting. I sort of felt like Calc was the best of the lot really, with Excel mostly being the same as Calc.
For me Draw is the pain point, not playing nicely with visio files.
ceantuco@reddit
yeah I used Draw instead of Visio for school projects... at work I use Visio lol I don't know.... I have a few sheets in Libre office and the font and tables look like a first grader drew them in lol Excel gui is nicer lol
Furdiburd10@reddit
Use use that so you can excel at work?
ceantuco@reddit
hahhaha
Moscato359@reddit
If that was true, then we wouldn't have a web version.
Microsoft makes more money from linux on azure than from windows, and windows isn't actually all that profitable
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
then why? would it cost them too much compared to the amount of new users they would gain?
oscooter@reddit
🛎️🛎️🛎️
Nail on the head. Microsoft is a business. Money is the the primary driving force behind any business. If there was enough money to be made with Office for Linux they’d do it.
Prior to Office365 they likely didnt feel like the effort was worth the return and now with Office365 they get some Linux users without any added effort from their part, so it decreases the value proposition of a native version even further b
MouseJiggler@reddit
Microsoft owes absolutely nothing to people who are not its customers.
Zakiyo@reddit
Well… they must have considered office on Linux and mac and chose not to port it even if it meant more customers. Why? To ensure its harder for people to switch to another os. That’s monopolistic behavior. And while i agree that they should not be forced by the government answer to the desire of the people they are scummy pieces of shits for that. They know their os would not stand a chance in a free market of OSes if it was not for the disparity in application compatibility.
MouseJiggler@reddit
There is MS Office on Mac, and it predates Office on Windows.
Zakiyo@reddit
Bruh that is true. Still bitches though how hard was it to add linux? They already developed the app to unix like system 🤦♂️
oscooter@reddit
Microsoft is a business. They care about money first and foremost. If they thought that there was enough money to make MS Office for Linux to offset the cost of the project they would do it, full stop.
And beside that, they’ve basically made the entire Office suite available in a browser that works for 99% of people who need it. Linux users who absolutely need an Office product and can’t use an alternative very likely can get by with Office 365, which reduces any money they’d make from a native version of Office for Linux even further.
Zakiyo@reddit
Microsoft bad
MouseJiggler@reddit
Office is not the primary reason why corpos choose Windows. See my other reply.
Zakiyo@reddit
Its a big one for consumers though.
MouseJiggler@reddit
Ultimately, consumers follow what they're familiar with from work.
Zakiyo@reddit
Initially yhea but let say someone hears that microsoft spies on them and show them adds and make them pay for the license and often have crappy updates or shitty versions (vista,8, 11) and does not let the user full access to their os (ex: some read only files) and they want to switch but cant because they sometimes work home and they wont be able to use office. (The solution is dual booting but still. Its a stick in the wheels of consumer to keep windows market share) They compete by preventing other OSes to be able to use their other products (even if it would increase office's sales) and not by offering a better OS. Thats the problem.
MouseJiggler@reddit
Regarding the "free market of OSs" - MSFT offers something much bigger than Office to the corpo market - and that's centralised management tools.
Have you ever tried to implement granular policies and centralised security/zero-trust/SSO for a somewhat large fleet of Linux desktops/laptops? That's an absolute nightmare, and so far I've only seen one corpo that bothered (that is decided that it's worth to invest money and man-hours into it) to implement that in house, and it was a very convoluted set of tooling. There is no competition to the tools that MSFT offers to that end.
Zakiyo@reddit
Yhea thats right but they do be bitches. It honestly bothers me how on the server side there are alternatives for almost every thing but for active directory they are not as good. Yet!
dotJGames@reddit
Office is on MacOS, so I’m sure MS would get away with it
lord_pizzabird@reddit
They kind of have. Office 365 and it’s web apps were a response to Chromebooks taking over the education market and an entire generation of young people.
This isn’t new to that team either. Microsoft office was popular on MacOS around the turn of the century.
Scout339v2@reddit
If all the apps were on Linux, windows would be dead in the consumer PC space lol. Most of the people that would continue to use windows would be enterprise machines and non-tech people for 5-10 years.
I also find it very unusual that we use Windows at all now. Its the only thing that is still sold en-mass that isnt Unix based. iOS, android, Linux, MacOS, TV's... even my 3D printer is Unix based.
Sea-Communication912@reddit
For many PC users, "Microsoft Windows" and "Microsoft Office" are inseparable. You might be surprised by the number of users that aren't clear on the distinction between the two products. The OS is effectively "Windows/Office". Since Linux doesn't include Office, it's not a useful OS from this point of view.
Now obviously Windows and Office are in fact separable, as shown by the fact that there is a Mac version of Office. However, that's a special case -- the key Office apps (Word, Excel, PowerPoint), as well as the combined Office suite, were all popular on the Mac before the Windows versions existed. Old-time Mac users will recall running Word while their PC counterparts were using WordPerfect with MS-DOS, or running Excel while the PC users had Lotus 1-2-3 or QuattroPro. The Office apps remain popular on the Mac today (even though Apple has developed free alternatives), and I'm sure that they are profitable. I'm no lawyer, but I suspect Apple that would have a legal case on anti-competitive grounds if Microsoft discontinued Mac Office.
However, Microsoft has no obligation to port Office to Linux. They could reasonably argue that (1) the number of Linux users is significantly smaller than the number of Windows or Mac users, and that (2) that many (most?) current Linux users would not buy their proprietary software even if it was available. So it's unlikely that Office for Linux would be profitable.
primalbluewolf@reddit
Windows doesnt include Office either, so it sounds like you're arguing Windows isn't a useful OS either?
Sea-Communication912@reddit
In theory, you are correct -- Windows doesn't include Office. But in practice, I would argue that the vast majority of Windows desktop do also have Office. And average users -- not tech nerds -- do regard Office as an integral part of Windows, even though this is not technically true.
Many of the people in my immediate family use Windows PCs daily. They would not be able to explain the difference between "Microsoft Windows" and "Microsoft Office".
MoobyTheGoldenSock@reddit
I think their point is that Office isn’t free on Windows and even low computer literate people often balk at the notion of paying for it. Most of us middle class kids grew up using Microsoft Works rather than pay for Office.
jr735@reddit
What you say is quite true. That's also why I attribute any difficulty in using LibreOffice among said people to be a PICNIC.
primalbluewolf@reddit
All of them, unless you install it.
Ive had some real crazy takes from my users, don't get me wrong... but Ive yet to have one assume Office is an integral part of Windows. Heck, being asked to add Office to their machine is one of my more frequent tickets.
Sea-Communication912@reddit
OK, but even if your users know that Windows and Office are not the same thing, the point is that your users expect them to go together. That's why you get so many tickets for installing Microsoft Office. I'm guessing that you don't get a lot of tickets from Windows users to install LibreOffice or Corel WordPerfect Office.
People have different reasons for choosing different operating systems. But for a lot of ordinary users, "ability to run Microsoft Office" is a non-negotiable requirement. That makes Linux a tough sell.
primalbluewolf@reddit
QED - not an integral part of Windows.
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
What do you mean by barrier? I've run into some folks who WANT that barrier. But that may not be what you meant.
ronaldtrip@reddit
The barrier is not having wide ISV buy in for Linux. That is what is keeping people from switching. People want to be able to run the apps they know and like. Doesn’t matter if it is proprietary or FOSS.
coffeejn@reddit
Learn to love Crossover.
ronaldtrip@reddit
Nah, I am passed pining for Windows apps. Switched to the Linux staples for home use a long, long time ago.
Two exceptions are Kodi and games. The Windows version of Kodi runs much better on Wine than native for me. Steam and proton do a damn good job at running Windows games.
MouseJiggler@reddit
No. Linux is not a "solution to windows". It's a different OS, with different paradigms, and different idiosyncrasies. It's not meant to be "an alternative to windows", and it's not designed to work and behave the way windows does, or to imitate it. It's its own separate thing, and switching to it will require adapting to it.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
right, but in the next years we will all need to choose: if we will stay o windows or move over to linux and whatever will happen everyone will need to do it simultaneously
MouseJiggler@reddit
No, and no.
Firstly - You are under no obligation to anyone to emburden yourself with that choice; The vast majority of people aren't even aware of the existence of that choice; If you choose to consider it - that's on you, and nobody else.
Secondly - No, nobody needs to do anything at the same time with anyone else. There are exactly zero reasons for "everyone needing to do it simultaneously". If you choose to do it - you're absolutely free to do it whenever you want to, and to go at your own pace.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
don’t think so, if we all don’t pass to linux simultaneously it will be double the work for devs to make apps for linux and some things still will not be compatible between OSes making it more difficult to collaborate between coworkers and organisations.
MouseJiggler@reddit
Ok, I'm confused now. Who is that "we" that you speak of? Is there some "Linux revolution" planned by someone?
mitchMurdra@reddit
A lot of kids act this way and post to the linux communities thinking there is some kind of war. I will never understand.
Zakiyo@reddit
Welcome to the linux world. Do you know since how long gnu/linux existed? Its been like that for decades and its been getting way better but 100% compatibility probably wont ever happen even if a majority of people switch to linux.
Morphized@reddit
There are far more choices than just those two. Haiku exists, and ReactOS sorta works.
BIKF@reddit
When it comes to organizations, the people with the suits and ties need their Excel and their Powerpoint. And they make decisions about the IT environment that affect the rest of us even if we work in more technical roles.
karo_scene@reddit
They also need someone to blame. If Windows goes down they can blame them and save their CEO backside. But if Linux went wrong the CEO would blame who? That Linus whatsisname guy? Or the guy who eats toenails. Richard? Stoll? Stall? Stallman! Get him in my office now! He's to blame!
INITMalcanis@reddit
Their IT contractors
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
Very nice work, is there any way/plan to sync audio with the lights? thank you
tamdelay@reddit
I wish the world was metric calendar, I wish all countries drove on the same side of the road, and I wish everyone agreed Linux was the best and 100% of all major modern apps and software migrated across to it and we all just agreed it was the new default (with windows being the minority choice) — but unfortaunly, even the best things that could happen for the world sometimes just cannot beat incredible momentum of prior bad decisions
Scout339v2@reddit
New quote unlocked.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
wow. Very poetic and, unfortunately, true.
Scout339v2@reddit
Try OnlyOffice, it bridges the gap much better than the others.
Most professional apps, due to market share most companies havent considered it a viable option (stupid decision)
Same reason as above, along with not being an option for Linux as an OS from prebuilt machines.
15% market share. (Valve is doing really well on helping with this due to the Steam Deck being hardware developed around linux. Ive had 3 friends say that they are less scared to move to Linux simply because they've been exposed to it through the steam deck.)
Qweedo420@reddit
You could also try OnlyOffice, it's more similar to MS Office
But then again, people don't really use the Office suite outside of school because there are better tools for the job (except for Excel in certain jobs maybe?) so you could just wait and then switch to Linux once you're free from your school's requirements
erwan@reddit
I'm always surprised by people saying they really need MS Office. I don't know a lot of people using it, even my Windows users friends/family use LibreOffice because it's free and they don't want to pay for an MS Office license.
Mal_Dun@reddit
One word: Companies.
You stop going through the hassle of converting or even reformatting Office stuff you get from colleagues or superiors at one point.
Would I need it? Hell no. But the environment forces you to.
Morphized@reddit
What part of the ___x standard does Libreoffice not implement that is commonly used by enterprise?
Moscato359@reddit
In general, excel is the only area msoffice really excells at. Yep.
parzival3719@reddit
personally i think dualbooting is fine. i used to dualboot Win11 and Ubuntu (i now dualboot Win11 and Arch) but i think Ubuntu is great for a daily driver OS. i have to keep Windows around so i can use things like Autodesk CAD programs and Microsoft Office, as well as for better performance in gaming. but for regular things i used Ubuntu without a problem really
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
I think Linux, through Proton, is catching up to Windows in game performance. When I was playing Elden Ring on Linux Mint I was having zero issues with the game, and no FPS drops that I could discern with the naked eye. The loading screens were MUCH faster on Linux than on Windows 10, that really surprised me.
Morphized@reddit
Ext4 is in my experience way faster than NTFS, so that's probably why
parzival3719@reddit
it is catching up, but considering my laptop has an Nvidia card i keep my gaming on Windows
CthulhusSon@reddit
Depending on which Nvidia card you have the latest drivers fix 99% of the problems that keep you gaming on Windows, there's just those stubborn idiots who insist on putting the kernel level "anticheat" spyware into their games that are a problem these days.
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
My gaming pc is a Linux Mint machine, with an Nvidia card :)
parzival3719@reddit
fair enough lol but at this point i can't be bothered to set everything up, i'd rather just reboot and call it a day
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
Okay, but your issue has nothing to do with Linux gaming not working well with Nvidia cards. Do Nvidia cards not work well with Arch? That seems to be the distro you're running, based on your profile avatar.
parzival3719@reddit
i've heard all kinds of horror stories about Nvidia with Linux in general and all the hoops people have to jump through to get stuff to work, and again given that i'd have to reformat my drive to make more space for games and reinstalling Arch i'd rather not mess with that now
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
I didn't experience any of the horror stories you seem to have heard. I've not had to jump through any hoops. Some of the Nvidia stuff is misplaced :)
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
Right, I am talking about linux as a mainstream os. Would your mom be able to dual boot Linux and Windows? Mine certainly wouldn't.
Zakiyo@reddit
Well once installed yes. Its very easy to choose between the two when you launch the computer.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
yea, but it’s no easy to understand which is is better for the specific thing you are going to do, besides people just want to use their computer the don’t want to have to deal with learning two different OSes
Zakiyo@reddit
Its not that deep a lot of people already use different OSes one on their phone and one on their computer. And they would not have to think about the best os. Just use linux and switch to windows when an app doesn’t work on Linux 🤷♂️
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
yeah but that is necessary. 2 OSes on one device seems like a bit too much
CompetitionSquare240@reddit
It’s not. Don’t worry you can still be a gamer.
Zakiyo@reddit
Because its new to u and never used it. I swear its not that deep. Its literally like choosing wether to use chrome or firefox.
jr735@reddit
Would your mom be able to reinstall Windows if I went in and wiped her drive? Or would she be relying on someone else's help, or simply buy a new computer?
parzival3719@reddit
my mom doesn't need to use Autodesk CAD software, and she doesn't game, so she could get rid of Windows entirely and just run Ubuntu ¯\(ツ)/¯
Terrible-Hornet4059@reddit
Chix who dual-boot are hot :D
CompetitionSquare240@reddit
Why does Linux v Windows obnoxiousness feel like it’s hit critical mass lately?
AdministrativeFault5@reddit
Use whatever OS feels the most comfortable as a daily driver and use a virtual machine for other purposes:
either use Linux as main OS and create a virtual machine that runs on Windows to run Windows only apps such as Office
either use Windows as main OS and create a virtual machine on Linux. That’ll help make you comfortable with Linux terminal and maybe discovers others OS too such as Arch, Gentoo, Fedora and so on
It really is up to your preference
MoobyTheGoldenSock@reddit
Commercialization. It’s why linux will never be as big as Windows and Mastodon will never be as big as X/Twitter. It’s Linux’s biggest benefit as well as it’s biggest drawback: FOSS programs like LibreOffice and GIMP are never going to be as feature rich and user friendly as large commercial products like Microsoft Office and Photoshop.
Not sure what you mean here. Windows keeps itself up-to-date and has both regular and LTS builds like Ubuntu does. Windows has a lot of features that are attractive to businesses.
Many already have. The majority of internet servers are on Linux, as are most of the embedded OS’s in smart TVs, game consoles, cars, etc. But for personal computers, the vast majority of users simply don’t care and would never even consider using Linux unless it’s OEM, and even then there’s never been a really commercially successful Linux OEM.
Consumers seem much more happy with Linux-derived OS’s like Android and Chrome: Linux kernel but the user friendly bells and whistles. If you count these, Linux is already the most popular OS on the planet. But as far as the traditional desktop PC, Microsoft won that one particular battle 30 years ago.
It’s natural when you first experience Linux to get frustrated at the rest of Windows users for not immediately seeing the light and moving over with you. But over time you realize that both OS’s have their place and you don’t have to despise one to use the other.
kansetsupanikku@reddit
Linux is not supposed to be a "solution for Windows". Unrelated projects, different model, separate goals. I guess that either can be used for advanced user's desktop that supports some specified games, but I believe that users who would be fine with either are minority even lower than either group. So the target user base is mostly separate as well.
If you want Windows, use Windows. If you dislike some features, disable them. Linux systems are unlikely to satisfy people who want non-Windows - instead, they are designed for people who want Linux.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
maybe you're right but it's not only about the features, it's about how fundamentally flawed Windows is. We have seen this in the recent Crowdstrike takedown which did not affect Linux systems.
jr735@reddit
If Windows is so fundamentally flawed (Crowdstrike has nothing to do with it, as bad updates can happen anywhere; that wasn't the OS but a badly released update and no-nothing sysadmins), then you're going to have to fundamentally rethink your usage. MS Office is not as essential as some claim. I have never used MS Office in my life, yet I collaborate and share documents all the time. A lot of people don't know how to set up things properly.
Anyone who wants to stop using Windows but carry on doing things exactly as they are, without Window, somehow, magically, is going to be supremely disappointed.
jr735@reddit
Incidentally, all the downvotes are just wishful thinking and show me I'm right. What I said is absolutely correct. Prove me wrong.
hazyPixels@reddit
A very similar bug happened in some versions of Croudstrike for Linux a couple months before.
Microsoft had previously tried to release an API that would have mitigated the Croudstrike issue but the EU sued them to prevent it.
bingedeleter@reddit
Please stop spreading this misinformation. That had nothing to do with Windows messing up. It could have easily happened to Linux too.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
right, Windows is still a great os, but IMHO Linux is much better
bingedeleter@reddit
…that has nothing to do with the Crowdstrike incident though…
I think Linux is better too! I love Linux, hence I’m here. But you need to start looking at all of this with some nuance. It’s not black and white.
kansetsupanikku@reddit
What have we seen, exactly? A bug that happened to be in Windows version of Crowdstrike, but not in Linux one? It's not like such an event would be impossible on Linux.
The way Crowdstrike is installed in either gives it insane amount of premissions, but many Linux admins choose to trust them. And it makes it possible to damage the config to the point of manual action being required, regardless of OS.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
right, maybe not the best example
Moscato359@reddit
That was luck. It's possible that a similar bug applies to linux.
hooloovoop@reddit
That could just have easily affected the Linux build. On this occasion it just so happens it was Windows, and it definitively was not Microsoft's fault. Windows is garbage in a lot of ways but Linux is not immune and it is not a magic bullet. Windows is shit but it's not full of foot guns the way Linux is.
Matty_Pixels@reddit
Crowdstrike DID mess up on Linux recently, it's not only Windows: https://www.neowin.net/news/crowdstrike-broke-debian-and-rocky-linux-months-ago-but-no-one-noticed/
loconessmonster@reddit
Yeah I agree with this take mostly. If you're growing discontent with windows...macos is probably the best place for you but honestly a windows user is going to hate macos as well. Linux (even ubuntu which imo is the most user friendly distro) is going to come with a lot more quirks than macos but it'll feel more familiar (on the surface) to a windows user than macos will (again in my opinion). Macos just has these really weird UX/UI quirks that I am convinced are just there to prevent people from leaving the apple ecosystem. Macos wins over Linux for application compatibility though. Linux is most often an afterthought for consumer application development.
rileyrgham@reddit
Windows isn't "outdated"... 99 percent of businesses around the world use it happily. You don't have to trash windows to be accepted as a Linux advocate in 2024. I've used Linux since 2002 give or take.. it's been tough at times but I'm.very happy with it. I use windows occasionally with no issues... Stuff like Garmin SW and VR gaming.
C0rn3j@reddit
Competent userbase that contributes to the ecosystem, in the upstream space. It's there, but needs more people.
You can throw MS Office on a Windows VM and work on it there, works without issues.
I would REALLY suggest against using Canonical products or anything that derives from them, the same way you'd not avoid Oracle.
It is the only consumer-targeted OS that requires you to have a subscription to get security patches. (Universe repository, consisting of 90%+ of packages the OS has, is not included in the free version)
Check out Fedora Workstation, or if you're feeling up for the challenge of learning to install it for the first time, Arch Linux.
Drate_Otin@reddit
That's bad advice. This is a new user and Ubuntu LTS is the most common Linux target for cross platform software development. I was trying out Fedora specifically when I started running into this. I started having to make concessions, look for alternatives, and then I needed SecureCRT.... Oof. I tried using alien as no rpm was provided but it still wouldn't install. Switched to back to Ubuntu and it was problem solved.
In this user's case I might recommend Mint to avoid the snap crap though.
C0rn3j@reddit
It's very good advice, unless you expect new users to start logging in into Pro subscriptions and hoping they'll never cross 5 devices/VMs/containers total, else they'll have to pay $500 a year.
Or that Canonical never changes the "5 free installations" rule.
It's not like that software is available on Ubuntu either, only on dated versions of it.
The solution there was to not use a paid proprietary SSH client, there are many good FOSS alternatives, or package it yourself if you really need a piece of niche software that bad, ideally inside of a sandbox.
Drate_Otin@reddit
There is absolutely no reason for any of that to happen. You're making up a scenario that won't apply most of the time and then ONLY if somebody signs up for pro, which yet are not obligated to do, AND continuously as more devices to their pro plan.
22.04 is hardly "dated". And the current beta is good for 24.04.
Which don't have the features I want? Negative. I'll stick with the program that does what I want.
Nope... I'd rather be doing my actual job. And it's not that niche in my industry.
C0rn3j@reddit
Yikes. Running system without security updates, that's awful.
Drate_Otin@reddit
Oh golly, they suddenly disabled security updates on anything that isn't a pro plan? People must hear about this! Quick! Link me to where this was stated so that I can help spread the word! I'll wait...
C0rn3j@reddit
They were never enabled, here's your link, sarcastic fellow - https://ubuntu.com/security/esm
Drate_Otin@reddit
And in your estimation, the link you just sent me says "Ubuntu LTS will not get security updates unless you have a pro plan"... Is that correct? Is that what you believe that website says?
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
Fascinating point of view, would the solution be to educate people on how to use linux?
Will try fedora, for now the App Center has been very convenient and I have found the fact that it is closely related to debian is convenient being used to rpi os.
Zakiyo@reddit
Obviously. Thats why Microsoft is in bed with every single fucking school and vive them heavy discounts or even free windows and office licences
throttlemeister@reddit
Please do not spread fud. There can be said a lot of things about Ubuntu, but saying no security patches is nonsense. Ubuntu pro is about support and extended patch availability for 10 years, not about patches during the normal release cycle. It's basically what RH does for its license paying customers.
And for the love of God stop praising arch to new users. Arch is for people that want to learn about and tinker with their os, not those who need a computer to get work done and don't really give a f about what it is running as long as they can do the things they need to do.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
ok, now I'm confused on who to believe. You both have very good points
C0rn3j@reddit
About Canonical, don't trust either, read it yourself from the horse's mouth:
https://ubuntu.com/security/esm
Thinking Ubuntu has security patches is a common misunderstanding, only a tiny portion of the overall OS packages is patched outside of Ubuntu Pro.
As for Arch Linux, I noted it's an option if you're up for a challenging learning experience, and the person above got very upset that it's for people who want to learn, go figure.
Fixed-release distributions get you no features and old bugs, rolling releases new features and new bugs.
Personally, I'd rather be upset that a regression made it to a new package, than waste 3 hours on an issue, only to figure out it was fixed 2 years ago and my distro is simply too old to have carry it.
And if you do waste time to figure out the cause of your issue to make your bug report, you'll still be asked to test on an up to date software versions anyway, so fixed-release distributions severely limit your ability to contribute upstream without spending extra time on re-testing it on a different distribution(or repackaging everything on your own).
gnocco-fritto@reddit
If all you need is Office, install Linux and then run Windows in a virtual machine, and install Office in it.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
unfortunately I have a very low end pc and this would seriously compromise performance.
Bro mi piace un sacco il tuo username
-NVLL-@reddit
I used Google's solutions back in High School 15 years ago, Office only recently implemented simultaneous editing, and it is bad. I have JS scripts adding events in my Calendar and synchronizing with spreadsheets based on e-mails I receive and version control on all my files in the cloud, with years of history.
There are greener fields to graze on, thank you.
Many rely on outdated versions, but latest one isn't yet.
Inertia, less qualification needed, familiarity bias.
Many things, but the intent is not copy Windows. I'd say that the opposite happens a lot more, with features long available on Linux are being implemented in newer versions of Windows.
I can speak only for me, which was some 14 years ago.
Captain-Thor@reddit
what are you talking about?
Zakiyo@reddit
Its Dos patched to death
lazystingray@reddit
It's not Its.
Windows? No, it's not related to DOS at all. It's Windows NT (DOS was/is virtualised).
If anyone cares, "an old and outdated OS like Windows"; Linux 0.1: 1991 compared to Windows NT 3.1: 1993. Linux is actually older. And yes, I remember Windows NT 3.1 being released and testing it at work (you could actually debug a BSOD via a serial port and work out what happened - think null MODEM and Kermit).
I still use both, Windows at work, Linux at home. I've (on many occasions, sometimes for several years at a time) had free access to MSDN and still didn't switch to Windows at home, I can do everything I need to in Linux. If you need Windows, good, use it. Simple.
Seems to be a big lack of support for Free BSD in this thread too - is that naive? Probably.
I feel like something out of a Douglas Adams novel after reading this thread - oh no, not again . . .
vanatteveldt@reddit
What is "windows", and why did it need to be solved?
seiha011@reddit
Windows is just a vehicle. What counts are the applications that everyone uses or has to use (e.g. at work). If you don't have to use them, Linux has everything you need.
bingocat1994@reddit
“An old and outdated like Windows” lol
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
ok, maybe it's a bit exaggerated but being open source means that linux is always evolving and getting better day by day.
oscooter@reddit
There is plenty of closed source software that is always evolving and getting better day by day, too.
And there’s plenty of open source projects ruled by a benevolent dictator for life that keep their projects from evolving (yes they can be forked, etc).
Evolution and getting better are not qualities specific to a project being open source.
We’re both here posting on /r/linux, so it’s probably a safe assumption that we both believe in the open source model. But the fact is plenty of very, very good software is closed source and there are some aspects of closed source software that can work in a product’s benefit.
It’s not a black and white picture.
HealthyCapacitor@reddit
Honest question, why doesn't LibreOffice compare to the native Windows app?
Because they don't know better and nobody have told them.
Not much longer. Next time they are forced to throw out a good PC and don't have money or realize Microsoft products are a huge security risk without real benefits. It'll snowball from there. Governments all over the globe are trying to shift as we speak.
tolerantgravity@reddit
As a decades long regular Linux user, I have to say Calc doesn't hold a candle to Excel.
It can do pretty much all the equations, sure, but Excel has the best charts and graphs of any app I've seen.
sCeege@reddit
I mean PowerPoint is theoretically turing complete, I think a lot of these "here's the top 7 FOSS 'alternatives' for your workflow!" folks realize just how well made some Microsoft products are. We're all annoyed by the shitty stuff like telemetry and manufactured requirements, the list goes on, but at the end of the day, a multi trillion dollar software company is going to make software.
HealthyCapacitor@reddit
It's a bit of a stretch.. I use Calc a lot for professional work and it does a decent job. But yeah, millions have been invested in Excel so it's expected there is a difference.
Moscato359@reddit
Billions
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
All of the cloud features that microsoft offers are just too convenient ex: too people being able to modify the same document simultaneously, sync with onedrive, powerpoint designer...
KnowZeroX@reddit
LibreOffice has a fork called CollebraOffice if you need collaborative cloud features, if that is all you need. Obviously if everyone else uses MS Office it isn't going to work
Drate_Otin@reddit
If it's cloud your want, then O365 works the same from Chrome on Linux as it does Chrome on Windows.
Moscato359@reddit
The issue is that the web version isn't as good, while the desktop version still has the web features
HealthyCapacitor@reddit
I understand. Having to install Windows to get collaborative editing is a bit of an overkill, Google Docs does it, so does O365. Generally however SaaS is frowned upon (somewhat) in the Linux sphere and it's not good for software freedom (IMO).
PJBonoVox@reddit
"Why are so many people/organizations still relying on an old and outdated OS like Windows?"
"How long will it take for people to realize that Linux is the better choice?"
You'd get much better answers if you didn't ask loaded questions like this.
srobertanv@reddit
I like analogies. Windows is like a car that you bought that can take you anywhere. It frequently breaks down and is a pain to fix. Linux is like a free car that can take you many of the places you'd like to go. It seldom breaks and the more you know the easier it gets to fix. It can't take you everywhere, but the list of places that it can't go is getting shorter. And when you can drive it, it is more pleasurable to drive than Windows. When you have to, use Windows. When you can, use Linux.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
amazing. perfect way to explain linux to the non tech savvy
mikistikis@reddit
Just the question is a fallacy. Windows is not a problem. It's several (or, better phrased, comes with several). For most of those problems, yes, Linux is a solution. Not the only solution, but one of few available. And you should always bare in mind that solutions often come with some caveats.
040318@reddit
What's Linux missing? Paid developers.
But honestly, how do you actually know even Windows as OS? You are just familiar with UI and mechanics, nothing more.
Zakiyo@reddit
People are way too apologetic for windows here 🙄 windows BAD its that simple. Its probably better than Linux for a lot of normal people and we should never force anyone to switch to Linux but windows is TRASH ASS BAD.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
IMO this is probably the TLDR of the whole post
bingedeleter@reddit
Just because you don’t like it, does not make Windows an “old and outdated” OS.
Why can’t people accept that it’s ok to use different tools for different things. This isn’t a competition.
If you think large businesses will ever go away from Windows infrastructure, you are spending too much time on r/linux and don’t actually work in tech.
primalbluewolf@reddit
You yourself are spending time on r/linux, and OP never claimed to work in tech in the first place?
bingedeleter@reddit
I’m probably being more gatekeepy and condescending than I meant to be with the “work in tech” part of my comment. I just meant to say that saying Windows is bad shows someone doesn’t realize how important it is in the grand scheme of things. Not old or outdated.
I don’t know how my comment on spending too much time in r/linux and making ridiculous claims about windows has to do with the fact I am in r/linux.
Zakiyo@reddit
Ehhh. I still dual boot. There are some games that don’t work on Linux
mrazster@reddit
It largely depends on the user and use case.
aesfields@reddit
no it's not, move on
coffeejn@reddit
It's not a solution, it's an alternative. Every OS has pros and cons. Just have to decide which OS has the best balance for your needs / security / privacy.
manlybrian@reddit
After a whoooole lot of struggling with GPU drivers, I finally got DaVinci video editor to work on Linux.
Then I got some alternatives to Photoshop, Illustrator, and even a painting program installed, but there are still issues. I can't get my Wacom tablet to work properly with them.
And I haven't even experimented with my MIDI controller or DAW software for music yet, but I bet it will take some work.
So that's what's currently holding me back from ditching Windows entirely. Linux is not set up well for art or creativity yet. 😰
doeffgek@reddit
I somewhat agree about MS Office/LibreOffice. LibreOffice has the same, if not more functionality as MS office, but the user interface just isn’t it, and that makes Libreoffice a pain.
What I’m missing is a good native WhatsApp client and proper support for USB connections in for instance Wine.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
see? These are the little things that need to be fixed in Linux for it to become the solution to Windows
Moscato359@reddit
I'd like to note that linux isn't even an operating system.
If libreoffice was fixed, we'd still have issues on chromebooks and android, which are also linux.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
Yeah but android is already extablished and chromebooks have been gaining traction lately while other distros of linux are not
doeffgek@reddit
LibreOffice is also available on Windows. I guess with the same UI.
I don’t use Android and ChromeOS, but I imagine that MS created an Android version of Office just like they did for iOS. And since ChromeOS is basically Android it should work there as well.
Linux is just too different and the big tech are trying their best in all ways imaginable to prevent competition getting too big. Numerous examples for that.
Moscato359@reddit
https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com.microsoft.office.officehubrow&hl=en_US
It exists, but it isn't necessarily very good.
MarsDrums@reddit
It was a definite solution for me.
At the time I went from Windows 7 to Windows 10 (tried anyway) I had an 8 year old computer. It ran Windows 7 perfectly. Nice and fast and I had no issues with it.
So, Windows 7 support was about to end. Usually in these times I think about what I would do if a certain new version of Windows wouldn't run well on a PC. My usual routine would be to just build a better/faster machine. But I did not have that option. I was broke at the time so I couldn't just build a new computer.
So, I installed Windows 10 on a brand new SSD (Windows 7 was still setup on the original drive it was on). I pulled that drive out of the case and stuck it up on a shelf for safe keeping. So, after installing Windows 10 on this new SSD, it ran slower than molasses! It took forever to open up any program. I couldn't have that.
So, I pulled out that drive and threw Windows 7 back in there and I downloaded Linux Mint (actually, I think I already had it downloaded... anticipating a possible change in OSes) and put it on a USB stick. Afterwards, I shut down the PC again, Swapped out the Windows 7 drive with the Windows 10 drive again and I used Linux Mint to partition, format, and install Linux Mint on that very drive that Windows 10 WAS on. After the Mint installation, I rebooted and Mint, at the time, looked and felt just like Windows 7. I loved it! It ran great. That was the last time I ever ran Windows on one of my PCs. That was in 2018 and I've been Windows free ever since.
A couple of months later, my wife's computer took a dump. So I needed to get her setup with a whole different PC altogether. I had acquired these IBM ThinkServers for next to nothing. They didn't have hard rives in them but they had TONS of RAM in them. So, I took one of those and threw in one of my spare SATA drives (not the Windows 7 yet... I was still saving that one for a rainy day). I installed Linux Mint on it for her and she's been using Mint now going on 3 years I think. It works perfectly for her. She loves it!
So, in my eyes, Linux is the PERFECT replacement for Windows.
ABetterT0m0rr0w@reddit
Depends
hidepp@reddit
Linux is not and was never meant to be a solution to Windows.
It is a solution for certain needs of users and companies. Different systems, different purposes, or even different preferencies.
6tBF4Cg4qqAAZA@reddit
I am doing a Master in Family Healthcare, which obviously includes research and a thesis. And I have been doing it with Ubuntu 24.04, with Zotero (flatpak), and LibreOffice (flatpak). Firefox (flatpak) for web browsing. Musikcube, in the background. Sticky Notes (flatpak) to write ideas or tasks.
I mentioned it, only to point out that you don't have to be a hacker man or an engineer to use Linux for productivity. But then again, I understand that Linux is not for everyone, for one reason or another.
The whole point of doing a postgraduate programme is to learn, so learning how to do things on Linux was just another learning process. It took a lot of time for me, and I won't deny it. But once you learn how to be productive on Linux, there is no going back.
I may have issues with some Windows applications that I suspect I will need to use next year, but there is Bottles for that, and you can bet that I will be asking for guidance here and on askubuntu.com when the time comes.
Like I said, Linux is not for everyone and I could say the same about Mac OS, or Windows.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
great response, thank you
Walzmyn@reddit
No.
Linux is a solution for people wanting to use their computers without a corporate overlord. It's not intended to be a solution for windows.
I guess it could be if they swallowed their pride and made Linux the kernel and Windows because a desktop rival to Plasma and Gnome.
But the best solution for windows would be to just give up and make other software (office, etc) for the real operating systems
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
this could be the case, unfortunately most of us need the corporate overlord's computer
dicksonleroy@reddit
There was a time when I absolutely needed Windows. I depended on Adobe Creative Suite/Cloud. Pretty much everything else I did with my computer I did with FOSS. And I was familiar with Linux because it ran my media and storage servers.
After my need for Adobe products vanished, there was no reason to stay with Windows. It was a natural choice.
BTW, Windows is not an outdated operating system. It has a host of issues (mostly connected to MS’s greed) but being outdated isn’t one of them.
Firm-Garbage-8188@reddit (OP)
right, what I meant to say is that issues have been stacking up lately
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
Use winapps to run office on Linux
Pure-Bag-2270@reddit
I was a windows guy till I tested win11 and they stopped supporting moving the taskbar to the left. I literally lost my shit, what a STUPID MORONIC idea! Then came the bloating and all the unreasonable requirements to update to Windows 11, Sayonara Microsoft...
That resulted in 2 things,:
1- My Thinkpad's HDD had Linux installed (Tried many distros from Debian, Fedora --> Arch and Gentoo, now I am on Opensuse Tumbleweed which I highly recommend) that laptop dual boots Linux and Windows 10 (for the odd software that I might need for dashcams or whatever) and this PC was turned into my home media server / streaming hardware.
2- Bought a Macbook Pro and switched to that for work
Why am I telling you all this? The only thing that you will miss if you want to use Linux for everything is the MS office suite and some other software if you're in a corporate environment, I haven't missed a thing personally using Mac but I've been told that there's no VBA support on MacOS - Ironically, Ms Office runs better on macs than it does on PCs from my experience - The Apple Silicon processors are no joke. There are ways around it for sure, but honestly the portability, screen clarity and battery life of a Macbook does put most other PCs to shame, trust me I shopped around quite a bit but you do get your money's worth.
Which means now with Windows 10 on its way out there will be loads more people switching to Linux on their personal PCs, I see this cycle happening: User at home switches to Linux, gets used to it --> IT guys pick up on that and revive older hardware with Linux at work and MS office starts to lose its grip on users. It will take a while, I honestly do not believe that most people will renew most of the hardware due to Win 11's requirements.
Hope this helps.
vancha113@reddit
Sounds like the wrong way to look at the relationship between windows and linux. They're alternatives, one is not a successor to the other. neither is "the better choice" objectively, only subjectively. In practice that means that some people have already realized that linux works better for them, where others have realized that it does not. If you can't run apps that are important to you on linux, then using linux makes no sense at all. Linux isn't missing anything per se, it's just not windows. If anything, it could do with a little more market share, although that is not a technical limitation.
Fit-Key-8352@reddit
Nothing is missing. Yes, it is a solution
MustangBarry@reddit
That's Microsoft being incompatible with Linux, not the other way round. You, the problem, are here complaining about the problem to people who have already solved it. Don't use Windows programs. They're not compatible with free and open source software.
hendrix-copperfield@reddit
The problem for office work is, that a lot of Schools Institutions and Workplaces rely on MS Office and exchanging Data between MS Office and Office Replacments like LibreOffice is always trouble.
Like at my workplace we could replace MS Office with LibreOffice and do the same things, but foenthat everybody would need to switch from MS Office to LibreOffice, so we wouldn't have trouble with exchanging files. Oh, not only would all my colleagues need to switch to LibreOffice, but every company, person and institution we exchange files with ...
chemape876@reddit
If i have to use the office suite, i use the online version. Not a reason to use windows garbage
ReallyEvilRob@reddit
LibreOffice works well enough for my needs and the compatibility in the latest version produces files that rarely have issues that I've seen. More and more people are also getting by just fine with Office 365 on the web. I can understand not being able to get by without Adobe, but the native experience of Microsoft Office is becoming less and less relevant today.
No_Custard8238@reddit
it is the better choice but need some apps support tho
commodore512@reddit
It might be a Solvent