American in Europe (Spain), a rant
Posted by RavedaPutaria@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 371 comments
This will be quite a long post, just been having a lot of feelings about this issue lately and needed a place to vent.
Hey all, I'm an American who has been living in Spain for two years teaching English. It's mostly been a lovely experience. I am currently living in Madrid and have really enjoyed it here. However, I feel quite uncomfortable in my identity as an American in Europe, as I know many others have felt.
I want to start off with the disclaimer that I understand how certain groups (especially those from African and/or Muslim countries) face a disgusting amount of discrimination and racism in Europe, and I am not trying to say in any way that I suffer that type of discrimination. Also, I am not the type of American that's super "patriotic" or thinks that my country is better than all others, as some seem to think about all of us. I realize that being American, I am born with a lot of privileges. Basically, I really don't want to sound like "aww poor American" but I want to share my experience.
Before moving to Spain, I really thought the US was one of the worst countries in the world. I've learned that this is something that happens basically in every country, you are so critical of your country while you're in it but then moving away from it helps you to appreciate all the good things about it. However, I really bought into this idea that us as Americans are the most dumb, ignorant, rude, etc. people on Earth and I always felt a bit ashamed to be American (this is of course in combination with the racism in our country, xenophobia, our government's interference in other countries, etc.). I think, like many Americans, I bought into this idea that Europeans are so educated, so well-mannered, so "worldly" that I would look dumb next to them.
When I first got to Europe, I would meet various Europeans (tbh not so much Spanish people, more often Brits/French/German/Dutch) that would make little comments or digs about Americans or about the US. At first, I found this stuff pretty funny and would agree with everything they said, because I had this idea that Europeans were so much better than us and that we deserve to be disrespected like that.
However, as I spent more time in Spain, I realized that the same exact ignorance and xenophobia that exists in the US, also exists in Europe. Plenty of Spanish people I met didn't have a clue about geography or world culture, and many only spoke Spanish (which is no problem to me as I speak Spanish, but there is this idea that Americans only speak English while Europeans are all "multilingual" which has not always been the case). This is not me saying that all European people are ignorant or racist or xenophobic, but that I was genuinely surprised to see the level of ignorance that exists (especially in Spain as that's my experience but in other countries as well).
And then it kept happening, that I would meet European people who would go on and on about how dumb we Americans are, how ignorant we are, how annoying we are, how our accents are so annoying, etc. This started to irritate me, because I felt like I had seen the same kind of ignorance here. I pushed on, but sometimes it honestly just became really hurtful that I would meet someone, say where I was from, and they would automatically have all of these negative assumptions towards me based on the country where I'm from.
For example, I was at a bar when I heard some people speaking English and I decided to introduce myself, because it had been a while since I had spoken to someone in English and I also love to help with translating to Spanish if people need it. These guys tell me they're from London, and I told them how I had just visited and absolutely loved it there, saying only really nice things. When one guy asks if I'm American and I tell him yes, he goes on to tell me that he would "never visit my piece of shit country" or be around "stupid Americans". Personally, I find it extremely rude to insult the country of origin of a person when meeting them (or at all). And honestly, it does hurt to know that some part of your identity, your nationality, can be so hated without people giving you the chance to show who you are.
There are countless comments like these, also the passive-aggressive comments ("usually I don't like Americans, but you're cool!"), or reactions that I find somewhat strange where people think of Americans as TV/movie characters and not real people, and seem to have no idea how to interact with me (this I don't find offensive necessarily, just uncomfortable). It really starts to wear down on me after a while, to the point where I dread when people ask where I am from, as the reaction is often negative or just strange.
I told my boyfriend this (he is from a Latino country, don't want to get too specific with identity here) and I told him I felt so embarrassed for being American. It seems that people hate my country, my people, my accent, everything without even truly knowing the positive things. Or they see as us dumb people who don't know anything. Or they see us as TV characters that they don't take quite seriously. Or they see us as people that need to be "humbled" with a list of things wrong with our country upon meeting us. My boyfriend helped me to understand that I need to feel proud of where I am from, that it's part of me, and that people's opinions of me don't matter at the end of the day. I have, as time gone on, have grown to really appreciate the US, the diversity, the people, and the opportunity it gave my family of immigrants to live a better life.
However, I see it with my boyfriend's friends (a mix of Spanish and Latino people) that some of them see the US the same way, quite negatively or more as a joke. As I mentioned earlier, I speak Spanish and come from a Spanish-speaking family, but my Spanish is nowhere near perfect. I have a noticeable accent when I speak and my grammar is not always the best. But considering my boyfriend only speaks Spanish and that's the language we always communicate in with few problems, I would say that my Spanish is at a high level. It's happened with some of his friends where they will kind of laugh at the way I say things, which is understandable. But there was a time where I didn't say a word very clearly and had to repeat myself, and one of his friends responded to me condescendingly sounding out the word and making me repeat it to him like an episode of Dora. I understand wanting to help someone learn a language, but it was done in a disrespectful way to make me feel embarrassed. I personally never correct people's English unless asked, and certainly treat people with respect because they have put in the effort to learn my language (especially bc I know that some people in my family don't speak English perfectly but have learned it as a second language). Later, we are passing a group of Americans and one of his friends starts kind of heckling them in ""English"" and making fun of their accents, while his other friends, behind laughs, tell him to stop because I'm there. It's irritating because I have worked really hard to improve my Spanish and to be able to communicate, but to them, hearing English is like an insult to their ears (and some of these people have family members in the US) and a huge joke to them.
Basically, I feel like I have tried really hard to learn the language, engage in the culture, and speak to people from this country and other countries. Certainly not everyone is disrespectful to me or to all Americans, but it happens enough to get annoying and honestly hurtful. The other day, I was in a restaurant and the bartender was speaking to me in Spanish but I could tell he had an American accent. When I asked him if he was American, he became so embarrassed, upset even, and asked me how I could tell. I tell this anecdote to explain that I feel many of us Americans feel ashamed of being American and we try our best to hide it, because the amount of comments that come our way or the ideas/stereotypes that people have about us become really annoying to deal with. You'll see that Americans on social media will talk about all the ways to not be seen as "Americans" while in Europe, that hiding our identity is a common practice.
I just want to know if anyone else (Americans in Europe) has felt this way and how they have coped with it. Maybe I'm being too sensitive and need to just develop thicker skin. I know I have to get used to it, but sometimes I wonder if it's even worth staying here if so many people will disrespect me or think they know everything about me because of my nationality.
Aware_Dig9344@reddit
As someone who is half Latin American and half Aruban (a Dutch island in the Caribbean) who also lived in the US before coming to the Netherlands, it has surprised the amount of xenophobia/discrimination that one experiences in Europe. I never felt in any way like this in the US.
Bagpiper1961@reddit
Except for living for two years in Hawaii I‘ve lived overseas since 1984. Personally as an American I‘ve not had any major difficulties with people being anti-US. While the US has its problems, it is still the greatest country in the world, a leader in entertainment, science, health care, the arts and finance. Don’t let the actions of politicians or other people bother me. They are outside of your control. If you do have a bad experience with someone, you make the decision on how you react to it.
IntlLadyofLeisure@reddit
All this while wearing an Atlanta City Varsity t shirt and a Yankees hat.
chicric@reddit
Be proud of being US American. And if they come at you stupid with xenophobic comments, come back with a negative comment about whichever country that person is from who did the shit-talking —->
Starting with Spain, there’s alot of racism toward their treatment of african, arab, latino immigrants. And bring up their colonial history how they conquered, killed, enslaved, raped, the indigenous and african population in the southern USA, Central & South America, Caribbean, and stole gold, minerals, resources, to fund their country.
xiayueze@reddit
As an American I’m always thinking this but never really sure how to say it
chicric@reddit
I‘m an American also, and this is my go-to response to european‘s anti-american comments:
”That was quite a xenophobic comment. But I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised, considering your country’s role in inventing and perpetuating racism. Many of the systems of oppression and racial hierarchies that persist today were invented and exported by European empires. From colonizing vast parts of the world to establishing the slave trade, Europe set the foundation for much of the racism we see globally. So, before criticizing the U.S., it’s worth reflecting on how deeply these issues are rooted in your own country’s past.“
WayofHatuey@reddit
OP, where in Spain are you currently living in? Just curious. I’m from US and I’m currently in Málaga and don’t experience this much.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Madrid, which, in terms of Spain, can be pretentious at times.
WayofHatuey@reddit
I believe it. Ive heard locals from Málaga complain about people from Madrid too lol People are really chill and welcoming down here from my one year experience
xiayueze@reddit
I love this comment thread because I’ve noticed a lot of fellow Americans saying that the infamous French nastiness is something that they only ever experienced in Paris, and when they left to another city or town, it ended up being a lovely travel destination where everyone was nice and friendly and welcoming and patient
Massive-Attempt-1911@reddit
Speaking as a ex European who lived half my life in Ireland,UK, and Spain and half in the USA. I now consider myself American.
Glad to see you added an edit stating you were NOT ashamed to be American because it came across that way. The reality is many Europeans dislike Americans and that has gotten worse over the years. They are also more racist than Americans in 2024. It’s not even a close call.
Moreover many European countries have shifted from socialism to radical socialism. They hold a grudge against America for its wealth, its leadership position in global commerce, and they detest American power in world politics UNTIL they need their asses saved. Think how embarrassing it must be for Europe to have to rely on USA to help Ukraine. They’ll never admit this but deep down it burns like a bitch.
American either created or allowed to flourish all of the greatest companies in the world. I won’t list them but you’d be hard pressed to come put with more than one or two from Europe.
So let them be petty little bitches. Tell ‘em to go to hell if they show you disrespect. And continue to be proud that you’re from the greatest country in the world.
xiayueze@reddit
There’s so much truth to this comment but then there’s also so much yikes!!!
ooh_sheila@reddit
I could never simp for socialism as I saw how shitty it is first hand. You're right on the target.
sedelpha@reddit
Black American here — tbh even though the Portuguese invented racism (as a science) I do think it's better exemplified by the Spanish. My portuguese is faaaaaar from perfect but people rarely correct me (though I have the fear that since I don't have an American accent, they think I'm stupid rather than a second language speaker.)
My hot take is that a lot of Europeans yearn for the days of their overreaching empires, and there's a part of them that envies America's reach now. Sure, now we're also a dying empire, but still much bigger both politically and economically than the whole EU block (though there's some more comparisons at that scale). There's a thin layer of civility thats really only a result of geopolitics in the 1900s and a sense of superiority they maintain on whatever metrics put them in the best light.
xiayueze@reddit
I’ve always thought this, I think deep down inside there’s a part of them that thinks “that used to be us”
Hitsuzenmujun@reddit
Congratulations, you’ve learned the core lessons that most expats do over time, and that non-expats will never understand. One other thing, remember that Europeans savage each other all the time so it’s not just Americans they target with those comments. Lastly, don’t be afraid to lash back at them / their country in a mocking, condescending tone, either.
Baldpacker@reddit
As a Canadian living in Spain, I regularly notice that any criticism of the Spanish Socialist system is met by "at least we're not the US where there are school shootings..."
It's incredible. Everything is deflected and justified by what's wrong in the US.
I've given up on having intellectual conversations about business, economics, geopolitics, taxes, history, or really anything I find interesting whatsoever.
Football and food seem to be the only acceptable conversations here.
priphilli@reddit
Maybe it's rather a defense mechanism. I don't know about Spain, but in my part of Europe I know many people (including me) who'd love to have those intellectual conversations with you.
Luvs2Spooge42069@reddit
it’s either the school shooting stuff or some ancient stereotype from the days of the Bush administration, no originality with these types lol
Wise_Confection348@reddit
I'll take the negative comments over the mass shootings any day. At least when your in europe you can walk the streets not constantly looking to see what's behind you
Shiftt156@reddit
...It's both. (Canadian in Germany)
Admitting that anything in North America functions better than in Europe is simply not allowed..
Baldpacker@reddit
Yea, nothing more frustrating than listening to locals complain for hours about everything and then as soon as a foreigner suggests a change for the better they get all defensive and start defending the very thing they'd just been complaining about.
It's been interesting in my travels and time away from home observing how strong nationalism is around the world (I've lost my own over time)
The_curiousmind7@reddit
Lol they can’t make up their minds. It’s a love and hate situation.
inciter7@reddit
The thing that's funny to me is theyll see it as a contest and try to throw something back that sucks in the US expecting me to have my mind blown about some issue(they often don't even really understand the issue)/or defend it furiously and I'll just say "yeah I agree! that sucks we should work on that" but they won't give an inch in return it's amazing
deepriver8@reddit
Correct! This should be part of the induction for any young American moving to Europe.
Swissdanielle@reddit
Funny, when I was in Toronto I missed intelligent conversations. It’s just the crowd you hang out with, def not everyone is just interested in football or food.
Also I’m surprised by the response to the criticism of welfare state (not socialist… big difference) is met with mention to guns… everyone I know, myself included, always default to thank our lucky stars as our healthcare system is not the same as in the US!
Baldpacker@reddit
My 60%+ tax rate says it's socialist. As does the literal name of the governing PSOE party.
Buy you're right that another criticism about the US is its healthcare - even though it has zero relevance to a conversation about the amount of money Spain spends buying votes from the elderly.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I really hate to say it, but I also feel like I have given up on a lot of intellectual conversations here. I of course am willing to listen to people, but Spanish people are not the most politically aware or involved people. It's also just a fact that a much larger proportion of Spanish people don't finish high/secondary school (25% compared to 9% in the US) and they really are just talking out of their ass with little to no education. I hate to sound harsh saying that, but it's the truth.
riotcris@reddit
I’m sorry to hear about your experience in Spain, but I find your comment a bit rude and condescending. It might be that the people you’ve encountered aren’t particularly politically engaged, but that doesn’t reflect everyone. I’m Spanish (currently living in Belgium), and I actually miss having political discussions with my friends from Spain. Even my (French) boyfriend has mentioned that most Spanish people he’s met are very into politics—sometimes to the point that he finds it a bit annoying! I’d kindly suggest refraining from blanket statements like “it’s the truth", especially after saying that you don't appreciate being told that “Americans are dumb”.
PeteLangosta@reddit
https://www.lamoncloa.gob.es/serviciosdeprensa/notasprensa/educacion/Paginas/2022/031022-panoramaeducacion.aspx
Yardbird7@reddit
My wife is Danish so I travel there often and really like the country and people.
But hearing little jabs about America dumb this and that over the years has worn on me.
And it's funny because I am far more critical of America than most. The issue is the reluctance of them to entertain any mild critique of the way they are doing things and turning it into "Well America.."
My favorite is the "America has no culture" trope. Usually said while they are on their iPhones, listening to rock or hip hop lol.
Fact is American media gets exported worldwide on and industrial scale, so our faults are magnified.
Baldpacker@reddit
Yes, the talking out of their ass and then desperate face saving when it's obvious they're wrong is hilarious. I've listened to one too many 45+ minute arguments about something I could settle with a 15 second Google search!
PeteLangosta@reddit
As a Spaniard I have to say that I have yet to hear that thing. Most of us don't really think of the US that much, if anything we compare things more to France or germany than the US.
Fiona-eva@reddit
It’s because US publicly positions itself as the Big Brother, helping (and interfering) with other countries. Doesn’t help that people like Trump say “this is the best country on Earth”, he is a buffoon, but he was also an elected president 🤷🏼♀️ so people accumulate resentment, and eventually it falls on absolutely innocent Americans. It’s sad but true, I know this as a Russian person, also get a lot of prejudice and resentment from people
deepriver8@reddit
The most intelligent Europeans I have met are very pro-Trump. They are independent thinkers who are sceptical of what the crooked media reports, and who recognise that America is the leader of the free world and that if America falls, the West will follow.
BridgeEngineer2021@reddit
Funny how it goes that the most intelligent people always just happen to be the ones that agree with you.
deepriver8@reddit
We are living in a completely crazy time where eventually everyone will have to have to pick a side. Each of us will make either an intelligent decision or a stupid decision.
Birbattitude@reddit
And he was preceded by the Bush clan and Reagan before that. Older Europeans are still mad about the Cold War Patriot missiles installed in west Germany in the ‘80s. Then there are those that remember the misadventure in Iraq.
If it’s any consolation many of us appreciate the difference between government and people and I find today’s anti-Russian sentiments towards Russian citizens outside Russia sad. I love Russians and don’t blame them for Stalin or Putin, just as I don’t want blame for the American monsters I cited above.
ChiefCoug@reddit
Uh, back it up there and be accurate in your history...Trump was preceded by our first black President who handily won two terms, and also in between those Bush & Reagans was another extremely popular Democratic, two term President, Bill Clinton. So no, American presidential politics has not been all Trump/Bush/Reagan over the past almost 40 years.
100plusRG@reddit
Europeans are mad at Americans from pretty much WW1 - always managing to come in as “saviors” at the last possible time when most of the hard work has already been done, to then sit at the table of the victorious and impose your view on the world now that every other super-power is essentially ruined and destroyed. Bunch of geopolitical vultures.
ElectrocutedNeurons@reddit
You don't need to be a Trump supporter to realize America is the only thing keeping the free world alive.
100plusRG@reddit
Name checks out
ElectrocutedNeurons@reddit
Ad hominem, no real argument. Europe is well on its way to become a tourist economy. Better get used to those American tourists!
100plusRG@reddit
Damn, getting schooled on reddit by a 22 y.o. weeb, i’ll never recover from this 😂
Fiona-eva@reddit
Yes, we will all fall into the abyss without you guys 🙄
ElectrocutedNeurons@reddit
The entire history of Europe, from inception to modern, is just infighting over the smallest things and technological ineptitutde. Hitler, Soviet and modern China would've flatten Europe in a blink of an eye without America.
Fiona-eva@reddit
This thread just keeps on giving 😂
alaslipknot@reddit
their statement is true in a sense, the only fallacy they said is the usage of "free world", but it is a fact that the US is indeed the main power that is making sure that the current global system continue to work as them and their allies wants it to work.
They are willing to topple governments, wage wars and many proxy-wars just to stop any attempt that may shake the current world system which they have always marketed it as "the free world".
deepriver8@reddit
America is the leader of the free world, and if it falls, all the West will follow.
Baldpacker@reddit
It is no doubt a fault of the media and propaganda - but Europeans hold themselves as ignorant about the world so it's kind of ironic...
Birbattitude@reddit
It’s called sour grapes.
InterestinglyLucky@reddit
Your last sentence reminded me is something.
“Which is worse, ignorance or apathy?
I don’t know, and I don’t care.”
Fearless-Chip6937@reddit
I think op doesn’t have the european sense of humor
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
This is fair, I think growing up in the US with an immigrant family making fun of other countries was always seen as disrespectful and comparable to MAGA/Trump talking points. For me, I always tried to be respectful to people no matter where they're from, but that's not the case for a lot of Europeans. I understand jokes (like, when people talk to me about obesity in the US, I find this funny), but disrespect towards other countries just rubs me the wrong way.
itsnobigthing@reddit
My husband is American, ex pat living in the UK with me (British wife). His they is that Americans are taught that being ‘patriotic’ to your country is really important and noble, pledge of allegiance, honouring the flag, etc etc. So, it’s more uncomfortable for you guys when other people disrespect your country, and can hit closer to home than intended by a less-patriotic person.
Whereas from the UK/European perspective, it feels like ‘punching up’ to make jokes about the US, as a wealthy world superpower, and we mostly expect you to agree (esp if the jokes are about things that seem so obviously nuts to the European sensibility, like gun control or Trump etc) and so be in on the joke.
That doesn’t make it ok, or make you wrong to feel hurt, but hopefully is some helpful context.
Yardbird7@reddit
But that sense of humor seems to be lost when something is said about their culture.
Fearless-Chip6937@reddit
disagree r/2westerneuropean4u
Admirable_Stand1408@reddit
😂😂😂😂 that is so true I am Half Danish and Italian both countries are brutal in their honesty you ask and you do not like the truth, then I highly advice you not to ask 😂😂😂 European are brutal to each other but I have been many many times in party where people are from all over EU and its hilarious when we are joking about each countries insanity’s. Beside that but do you know Spanish are generally rude to everyone even themselves they do not like each other. folks from Barcelona do not like Madrid and so and so. I noticed people from US tend to have very thin skin maybe its a culture thing. I live in Mexico with my Mexican wife she warned me about her family will bombard me with jokes. first I have to admit I did get a little bit offended now I fire back we all laughed. Every morning I send a joke to my father in law and her brothers. we just have a really good chemistry my wife always complain about her family loves me more than her 😂😂
ooh_sheila@reddit
Lol, so not true..my subculture in America does the dirty dozens and you try that on a European after they "banter" you they will look with their mouth agape. It's not an equal playing field and don't expect it to be.
Admirable_Stand1408@reddit
We do not need sub cultures to be direct 😊😊
anetanetanet@reddit
Definitely. As a Romanian person I am often hesitant to make it known I am Romanian in many other countries. The stereotype is that we are all "thieving gypsies" (absolutely no shade to rroma people, it is just the stereotype), or that we are all peasants. Fortunately in Spain many people have or have had colleagues or friends who are Romanian so they have first-hand experience and no bad vibes. But in "better" western countries there's a lot of negative sentiments.
I have always found it really odd to make judgements on people based on this. Instead of just seeing that person's behavior and demeanor and going from there
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
That last point you make would require a sense of self respect and pride, which this OP doesn’t seem to have
Kingsley-Zissou@reddit
Eh, one just needs to understand some European history in order to clap back.
Being insulted by an Englishman? Remind him that the royals are pedophiles, and that the only recent royal with any class (Diana) was murdered by the queen.
Taking lip from a Spaniard? Adopt the thickest Barcelona you can manage and start talking about the conquistadors.
Belgian (but really, who would ever take shit from a Belgian?): bring up Leopold II’s rubber field quotas and act surprised that they still have both arms.
For Germans you can sing “Erika” and ask about their grandparents party affiliations.
For Italians, order a pineapple pizza or cut your spaghetti in front of them (Italians are super pretentious and, therefore, incredibly easy to rile up). You can also remark on how trash Ferrari is.
The French are still practicing colonialists. You can also point out that CoCo Chanel was a Nazi profiteer.
The Swiss use their neutrality to profit from continental warfare. Ask them if there’s some sort of profit sharing from Nazi gold or Russian Oligarch money?
The dirty secret is that most Europeans are totally ignorant of their own uncomfortable pasts, and there is plenty to throw back in their faces. Hell, most governments in the EU are going hard right at the moment. AfD in Germany. PVV in the Netherlands. LePenn in France. Race riots in England. As OP pointed out, there is plenty of hate and ignorance in the EU to go around.
There is also plenty to be proud about when it comes to being American. Yeah, the EU has better social safety nets, but they’ve completely outsourced their defense to the American taxpayer (why is the continent completely incapable of playing nicely together without mother America around to play referee?). They may be less religious, but the majority of Europe still has some form of nobility based on bloodline and the ordainment of god.
So yeah, OP. If you want to stop being treated like a meek American, stop acting like one. When the Eurotrash goes low, kick them in the nuts with facts. They’ll probably respect you a whole lot more.
Yardbird7@reddit
Well said. Let's see how good their supposedly Indecipherable sense of humor is when you say this about their own culture.
Taq--@reddit
Nah, mate, even after all that, Europe is still better than America. (And I say this a brit.)
Also, these are not all facts. Some of it are theories. (Princess Diana, for example. We still don't know how she died, but most likely by a car crash.)
Kingsley-Zissou@reddit
The city of Amsterdam is running a literal PR campaign to dissuade you tossers from coming and ruining the vibe with your trash-ass stag parties. British tourists make the Chinese (who squat and shit in subway cars) look like saints by comparison.
If I were you, I would never openly admit to being English while abroad.
Taq--@reddit
Shite, forgot about him. But still, my point still stands about the other things I just mentioned.
Kingsley-Zissou@reddit
I mean, mother dearest covered for him for years (he was the favorite son, after all), and it took Charles’ youngest son to abdicate his title and flee the country with his half-black American wife (who the British tabloids lambasted mercilessly) for any real consequence to befall His Royal Dryness.
But the royals are low hanging fruit. We can talk about the troubles, the formation of the Church of England, or the sun setting on the great empire that was sparked by us scrappy colonials.
But really, I jest. I’m the first one to take the piss out of loudmouth American tourists or expats that can’t string 2 sentences of the local language together after living in the country for 15 years. I’m an equal opportunity hater. But with Europeans it tends to be so easy due to the lack of historical knowledge most seem to possess.
Taq--@reddit
Fuuuuuuuck.... You've got a point. You're 100% right, actually. The Royal Family is fucked for doing that, I was just trying to defend them. As is British Tradition. But, in this. I'm in the wrong. You win. Good job, lad.
Remote-Pear60@reddit
And haven't they defended him, funded him, and paid for him to not meet justice?
Taq--@reddit
Okay, you win. I rest my case of trying to defend the Royal Family.
Remote-Pear60@reddit
This needs more upvotes, 💯
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Bahahaha bro woke up and didn’t choose violence - he came prepared for immense violence
Kingsley-Zissou@reddit
Dunking on Eurotrash is the secret to my youthful appearance.
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
You are my spirit animal
_Forest_Bather@reddit
This guy Europes
OkTax444@reddit
American (24F) approaching my 12th year in England - THIS.
Adapt to your environment; welcome to being an expat.
priphilli@reddit
I'm sorry that you experience this. I'm from a different European country, and I haven't spent enough time in Spain to know how they treat Americans. I mostly encounter a very different view of the US than what you describe where I live or lived. Most people in my circle would gladly communicate with you in English and wouldn't insult you. I don't know why you get this treatment, but the problem is most likely in them--they have issues or were fed stereotypes all their lives. I heard Spanish and French are stubborn and patriotic, but I don't want to make generalizations.
circle22woman@reddit
Ignorance is a hell of drug, huh?
nafkotadmasu@reddit
Yes, specially american ignorance
circle22woman@reddit
I think the lesson of this story is that Europeans are just as ignorant.
nafkotadmasu@reddit
Sure, your comment illustrate really well who’s stupid and ignorant. Keep up
circle22woman@reddit
LOL, must have hit a sore spot huh?
One of those comments you hate because you know it's true?
nafkotadmasu@reddit
I don't even know how to reply to this. Being offended by this demented comment saying people from the 50 countries that constitute Europe are all the same won't cause me any harm since is such a low level and low effort attempt in using your cognitive capabilities. I can only conclude how illiterate and stupid you are but yeah keep up, you are illustrating this post very well and proving how stupid americans are.
nafkotadmasu@reddit
Americans deserve all the hate they get. Also, this post is so dumb and delusional. It seems written by a 11yo person. Your lack of self awareness is astonishing. You care so much for what other people say or think. You need a lot more personality. You’re too shallow and weak. That’s why you only attract this kind of people around you.
magnusdeus123@reddit
Not Europe, but it's the same in Canada. I realized after leaving how so much of Canadian identity is just hate for the US. And how much of it is little more than insecurity. The U.S. has some insane issues but the average Canadian isn't an image of perfection either and we have plenty of issues on our own. Mocking the U.S. is usually just a cop out from truly examining our own issues.
HedonisticMonk42069@reddit
As a mixed guy, I was pretty surprised how racist and unsubtle Italy would be, was not ready for that lol.
freezingazzoff@reddit
I relate 100% to your experience. Throughout my years in Valencia, Spain, I tried to hide myself and conform as much as I could, but I realized it was impossible to change my own identity completely. I didn't want to be American anymore, but I failed to completely assimilate. Long story short, I’m leaving Spain and going back to the US, mainly for professional and economic reasons. Since being here, I no longer see Europeans as the enlightened and intellectually and culturally superior beings they pride themselves to be. I see a lot of insecurity that turns into bullying and lashing out to make themselves feel better about their own issues. My partner is Spanish and I see how it’s something so internalized, especially in young people. It shows through those knee-jerk reactions to attack Americans even about such simple things like us using Fahrenheit, for example. Now the romance has faded away and I see things for what they really are. I decided that the negativity in day-to-day interactions is too socially exhausting. Knowing that I have a solid community and better job opportunities in the US, I don't think the "pros" outweigh it, for me personally. If you don't jive with the people, the move might not be sustainable for you long term. Just my 10 cents🤷♀️
ooh_sheila@reddit
The negativity and lack of room to progress got really boring for me. I'm moving back too
freezingazzoff@reddit
I’m sorry you are going through it too. It’s disheartening, especially since I am young like the OP and trying to find my place in the world. I guess the only place can be where you’re from.. At least that’s how it feels.
ooh_sheila@reddit
Id love to chat about it. I'm also a F so nothing creepy here lmao 😂 just stressed and tired of seeing people constantly praise Europe as some enlightened civilized land while shitting on the US online
priphilli@reddit
I'm a European, and in my country people are often positive about the US to the point of delusion, especially young people who've never been there. They presume everything is easier there, but anyone who makes generalizations about whole nations (especially this large and diverse) or continents is going to end up being wrong, no matter where they're from. Experiences and personal preferences vary, both Europe and the US or to be fair North America are vast and comprised of many countries/states with many different people.
LollipopsAndCrepes_@reddit
I've lived in Europe 5 years and literally every European I've spoken with asks why I moved here because life in the USA seems better than in the Netherlands to them 🤷♀️ they've never had to worry about school shootings or college tuition etc.
paspatel1692@reddit
Try being Italian in Northern Europe or any similar combination and you’ll hear condescending comments as if Italy is a huge mess full of crazy people and e.g., Denmark or Norway is heaven on earth. Same s***, different day. The reality is: people are xenophobic everywhere and our media narratives often reinforce this issue. It’s not only towards Americans, although I imagine that everyone has an opinion on the US whereas with other countries most people never thought about them.
misatillo@reddit
Same if you are Spanish living in the north.
techrmd3@reddit
I think you need to realize that English tourists kind of have a bad reputation themselves to most of the rest of Europe. So when someone says they are from the UK you have to realize that attitude is incoming.
A good thing to do is not to interact with anyone who speaks English since you speak Spanish.
A friend of mine adopted the persona of a Canadian... maybe that helps if you must interact with anyone, Canadians are always thought of well... they can be nice, they have 1 border after all.
Myself if I was comfortable speaking Spanish like a native I would probably no talk to anyone in English in touristy areas.
alittledanger@reddit
I’m sorry that this is going to sound harsh, but Americans who pretend to be Canadian are fucking pathetic imho.
techrmd3@reddit
yeah well I hope that you never ever have to be in a place where if you say you are Canadian you are allowed to go about your business but if you say American you get kidnapped...
Just remember there are not going to be Marines to save your butt in all circumstances and a bit of diplomacy usually goes a long way to avoid ending up on a milk carton
alittledanger@reddit
Lol still pathetic.
And many of the places where us yanks would be at risk of being kidnapped would also be risky for Canadians, or any other Westerner.
techrmd3@reddit
whatever, you don't know the situations if you did, with your attitude, you would be dead
but good luck with that gringo, I hope the world does not teach you a harsh lesson some day about practical diplomacy
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I refuse to pretend to be Canadian, lol. It defeats the whole purpose, I don't want to hide who I am, I just want to be respected.
techrmd3@reddit
says someone who has never been the one American in a sea of other people and having your answer being the one thing keeping you from ending up in a bag.
Be proud all you want. I normally am but I am also practical. If NOT announcing I am a citizen of a country that invaded a neighbor gets me more safety and immediate Freedom... O' Canada!
OutsideWishbone7@reddit
No one cares. No one cares if you are Canadian. No one cares about your need for respect. Once you understand that you’ll be more relaxed about expecting respect.
franckJPLF@reddit
Your problem is that you want to be respected as an American.
When you could simply be respected as a human being if you weren’t so attached to your american identity.
Personally, as a French living in Japan, I don’t consider myself French or Japanese. I am just me and I don’t give a damn if someone wants to shit-talk about either country.
lwpho2@reddit
There’s only one thing I’m sure of in this life: there is always someone out there whose standards you are not meeting.
Keeping this in mind may help.
RandoFrequency@reddit
This. And no matter where you are in the world, there’s always a group of people who hate another group of people for absolutely no solid reason whatsoever.
That gem I heard from a used car lot salesman two weeks after I moved back to the US, funny enough.
OP, prepare the perfect response that’s just the right amount of sanity, honesty, heart, and bitchy for instances such as this and memorize it. I found the constant degrading of “my country” (ew) despite the “but not you” reassurances as you mentioned. My level of “accepting” these comments was holding me back from proper, full assimilation, as it prevented me showing my real self in ways I didn’t realize until after I’d left the UK. Bear in mind I lived in the UK during TFG’s presidency, so the activity in this regard was magnified tenfold.
That motherfucker has ruined several significant aspects in my life. He cannot depart this planet soon enough! I wish you the best of luck! Spain is my dream.
pissboots@reddit
I'm a new immigrant to France. The only people who have made shitty comments on my level of French-speaking, negative comments about America or things like that, are people who don't speak ANY other languages and have never been to the US lol. Basically, idiots. Only an idiot would judge someone solely based on where they are from.
I had always heard stereotypes about French people being snobby and rude etc. Guess what? 99.9% of people I've met here are absolutely lovely, kind and super welcoming to l'Americaine.
I'm sorry some people are dicks, but try not to let it get to you, because they're probably just dumb.
JoeyMontezz@reddit
Give it time. The appeal of france will dissappear once they stop viewing you as a tourist or as soon as you need to do anything official. Getting anything done in this country is hell.
pissboots@reddit
Oh no, I am familiar with the bureaucracy already. Between trying to get health coverage, starting a business etc it's already proving to be just as difficult as in the US. My husband is French, and he warned me, but TBH it doesn't seem as difficult as I anticipated..
Kimchi2019@reddit
There are shitty people everywhere.
I worked with Expats for 20+ years. I learned how to chop them down quickly if their arrogance spills out.
“America has failed. Our low income people in America live better than the middle class in our UK colony. We are taking advantage of these poor bastards."
And for lower class uneducated Brits with a hideous accent I ask them how long they have been studying English.
And for Scandinavians, I tell them about how we had so many Swedish / Norwegian / whatever place jokes growing up. Only Polish had more jokes.
For Germans, I ask them why all of the other Europeans do not like them. All of them.
But if you offered them a green card, most of them would take it in a heartbeat. Words are cheap.
Tardislass@reddit
Welcome to the real world where most people are small minded idiots-even in "Europe-the promised land". European folks savage each others countries on a daily basis. It's always strange and weird to me as an American but I suppose it's a bit like everyone in the US making fun of Mississippi. And Europeans are equally idiotic in expressing their dislike of America "I would never live there", while excitedly talking about going to NYC and Disneyland/Disney World-Europeans have a weird fascination with The Mouse!
Stand up for yourself and when people shit on America, talk about their country. I always have some Brits who make fun of the US voting in Trump as POTUS. Until I remind them that was the same year, the UK voted for Brexit and they have to live with the consequences longer.
Finally, a lot of Spanish folks are very insular and small minded. Americans don't see this but their politics and right/left are as crazy as Americans. Either you can banter with them or avoid them.
wbd82@reddit
Nationalism is a disease.
notthegoatseguy@reddit
Honestly it sounds like the people you're hanging out with are toxic as fuck, bordering on bigotry.
Ditch them, set firm boundaries, and find a different crowd.
axolotl_28@reddit
"Find a different crowd" when 70% of the experiences in this sub say it is impossible to find a crowd as an expat might not be the helpful advice you think it is
SignificantAssociate@reddit
Nobody said it was easy
cy_berd@reddit
sometimess less is more
terserterseness@reddit
People say this and I wish I could meet up with someone and see them in action. I am an expat for 30 years in many countries and i have good friends (some will be for life) in all of them, including in Spain (Spanish friends not expats) and Portugal (Portuguese friends, not expats) . I am Dutch. I don't understand how other people try to make meet people, but it takes me literally a few days in a new place to get invited to family dinners, get asked out to eat and drink etc and from there is grows. I really don't know what other people try that goes so wrong...
terserterseness@reddit
mate, you guys voted trump in and NOT had a civil war over that. IQ cannot get lower than that; that is why people think you dumb. I don't believe that in general, but seems you tend to adore blithering imbeciles like trump, musk, vance. it needs a special type of person to not move or attack if that happens. also guns and school shootings; it's retarted and europe is obviously better than that as we don't have either. once we do, as far do believe its waves, i might move if US is back to 80s standards.
dukedog@reddit
There's 330+ million people in the US. Applying a blanket statement towards the US when Trump never won the popular vote makes you look fucking dumb.
terserterseness@reddit
mate, you guys voted trump in and NOT had a civil war over that. IQ cannot get lower than that; that is why people think you dumb. I don't believe that in general, but seems you tend to adore blithering imbeciles like trump, musk, vance. it needs a special type of person to not move or attack if that happens. also guns and school shootings; it's retarted and europe is obviously better than that as we don't have either. once we do, as far do believe its waves, i might move if US is back to 80s standards.
CrispyLiquids@reddit
That's a really good point. You're either gonna have to have a balance of friends that includes more ignorant people but you exercise great patience with them, or focus on the least toxic, or you move to a place that has more expats/open minded people around. Ignorance isn't really that bad if they'll be open to learn otherwise, but in some cases the bias and stereotypes are more deeply rooted. Also, in my view, just forget about "the US" - you are not the US, you don't have to defend it, neither do Russians have to say anything about Russia, Sudanese about Sudan, Israelis about Israel, or Jews about Israel or other Jews, or Muslims about other Muslims or their country. You can share your opinion, but it's not your duty. Many of us get the chance to work with people from all over the world and get to experience first hand that your origin does not define you at all - many non expats never have that privilege. Good luck!
SignificantAssociate@reddit
Came here to say this. There are more people of the kind that OP describes in the world and they are louder. The best smartest most educated coolest people in any country are not looking to hang out, they filter their circles really well, perhaps even too well. As soon as you are disadvantaged in any way (poor, non local, young, have accent, whatever it is), you are going to fall with the louder crowd by default. Finding people at your level, whatever this means, and bettering yourself for those people to accept you as one of them is a lifelong cyclical labour and I'd say is the most worthy life achievement. Congratulations, as an expat, you stepped out of the matrix and saw society from the outside. Now you 'just' have to make this knowledge work for you
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
This works both ways, yes? The people in OPs posts shouldn't get to remain ignorant and asshole-ish just because OP is in "their country"--maybe they can meet her halfway, and be decent right back to them?
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Exactly. My friend group had maybe 15 different nationalities ranging from Nigerian to Japanese to LATAM folks and I’ve never heard trash talk on the US. In fact, many of them have a really over romanticized view of it
utopista114@reddit
Given what the US has done to LATAM, anybody that doesn't have at least a bit to say is kinda sus. You know, with the imposing of genocidal dictatorships and the like.
Hexash15@reddit
You may hate what a certain subset of a country did in the past (in my case, 51 years have passed since the coup d'état in Chile). If I meet a guy from the US that does not give me ANY right to be rude towards them. That's it.
It's the same if I were to meet a person from Germany: "oooooh, you know that your ancestors did?". rude as fuck, and something totally out of their control, unjust even. The problem is not that we cannot have opinions, it's that some people lack empathy.
utopista114@reddit
Ancestors? It's not medieval history.
In Germany, ask what grandpa did.
Anyway, this is about perceptions of the US, not of Americans. OP was talking about how people perceive the United States.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
So all of the nasty shit that OPs "friends" and people they met said to her/in their presence was...what? A dream?
KrishnaChick@reddit
Grandpa got grandma pregnant, and she gave birth to mom or dad, and the grandson is the person you're talking to. I'm sure your ancestors are no better, and probably a good deal worse. Welcome to the human race.
The United States is just a piece of land. It doesn't do anything; its people do.
axolotl_28@reddit
Not really. Old people in LATAM romantize the US a lot. If anything, young people might be more critical of it
utopista114@reddit
Only people that we call cipayos, gusanos, etc.
No-Virus-4571@reddit
Or people who grew up in the military dictatorship where everyone who was critical ended up dead. Meaning that they grew up around only one way of thinking.
utopista114@reddit
I don't know why I'm downvoted. Or right wing south americans or Americans that really don't know what happened down there.
No-Virus-4571@reddit
Probably because your take on an old people who like the USA is assuming that they are all upper class members that somehow benefited from the USA interventions. There are a lot of old people that had vastly different experiences depending on how old they were and which country they are from and you went with the traditional communist "slurs".
utopista114@reddit
Those are not communist. Most of the murdered asked for staples of the welfare state.
This-Direction-3833@reddit
Yes, I lived for 16 years in the UK working on a US base and have British family. I hated the anti-American sentiment.
ultimomono@reddit
You sound young, so I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but no one really cares about your origin story. Just as no one in the US will want to hear about your experiences in Spain. You are largely the one who is centering this and making it an ongoing conversation that annoys you, whether you realize it or not.
I've been living in Spain for 20 years and I never have conversations like that. I nip it right in the bud if it starts going that way. People will fall back on talking to you about your origin/accent/otherness when they can't find anything else to talk about. All of these interactions you are talking about sound really superficial and that's likely the problem. I remember this happening when I lived in France in my late teens/early 20s. I just had a hard time meeting people and having conversations of substance.
The best way to avoid the kinds of conversations that annoy you is to have lots of other things to talk about with people. Develop yourself. Read books, watch movies/shows, follow politics if you like to argue/debates, find some obsessions that others are interested in (music, art, games, hiking, working out, whatever). The more you know and the more integrated you are, the easier it is to immediately signal to people that an accent doesn't equal ignorance. The best way I know to do that personally is to be funny. Once people realize you can joke around, it changes things.
When you get to the point where you have real friends you know very well and who want to get to know you as a fellow a human being, this stuff all drops away and you will create all sorts of other things to talk about together. In the meantime, you can find nice acquaintances who share some passion or activity you enjoy doing. Get out and do some activities with folks where you are just another person doing the thing and that's what you talk about.
It's really, really unusual for a Spanish person to correct a foreigner's pronunciation. I'm so surprised you would ever encounter that. It's also really common for folks to overestimate their level in a foreign language. Maybe you need some more work in some areas. The first few years I lived here, I thought I understood so much more than I actually did. I'm literally still learning things about Spanish culture every day (which losing touch with American culture and barely understanding anything there). Have you tried doing intercambios where folks are focused on language, but in a positive, encouraging way? Read more in Spanish to build a more sophisticated vocabulary and learn more about Spanish culture/history/etc.?
But, you know what else I've figured out? Most people don't like being a stranger in a strange land. I've seen SO many foreigners come and go here. Most do not stay, because it requires a lot of humility, adaptation and tolerance for always being on the margins of society. It's definitely not for everyone and that's okay, too
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I think you make a lot of interesting points, and I would agree that a lot of my conversations when meeting people can be quite superficial. Doesn't help that I can be a little introverted, lol. I don't want my post to sound like everyone I met has treated me disrespectfully, because I really have made some great friends here, but sometimes the negative experiences stick out a bit more which is a question of my perceptions of things. But I totally agree on focusing on developing myself, because sometimes the focus is away on that stuff when adjusting to new cultures/places.
I think something interesting that you point out is that not everyone is interested in my origins. To be fair, I've met a lot of people who have their curiosity and want to learn more, but certainly not everyone cares. I guess me being someone who's curious about other cultures and people, expecting that in other people is a recipe for failure, especially when talking to people who have lived in the same country/region their whole life.
In regards to Spanish people not correcting pronunciation, I would have to disagree, because it has happened to me several times. I previously lived in a small town in Spain where people almost never corrected me, but in Madrid I think there are a lot of people who take immense pride in castellano. It happens a lot to friends who are from other Spanish-speaking countries who are corrected or ridiculed for their accent. I think this is partially something to be expected when being in a country and speaking with an accent or a different dialect that people might correct you or even put you down.
But yes, part of it really is that core thing of being a stranger in a stranger's land. I have to work on being more comfortable around that and not letting that affect me too much.
ultimomono@reddit
It really is! Most people are most interested in people who are interested in them😂 As I got older, I found ways to have really interesting conversations with people who had no real interest in me or my story/thoughts/etc.--and might annoy the fuck out of me otherwise--by decentering myself and extracting their stories.
I have to say the hardest for me is going back to the US after being away for 20 years and having to pretend that everything there is still normal to me. Trust me, almost no one wants to hear my thoughts on how things have changed there or the reverse culture shock I experience when I go there--or anything about my life in Spain.
It's far more drastic than anything I experience here in Madrid as an assimilated foreign-born person at this point. It's worst for my son, who is in his early 20s. He's never really lived in the US, but no one views him as "foreign," because he sounds like an American. It's really disorienting for him, because he feels totally like a fish out of water there and so much is truly strange to him and it's hard to communicate to people.
Just to say, it's tough straddling cultures. Learning to roll with it, not take things too personally, develop your personality, find meaning and interesting people is the key. Think of it as a lifelong process and don't put too much pressure on yourself.
Keep working on it, then. Because, honestly, it's not common at all in Madrid (I've lived here for 20 years) once you are very easily understood and just have a light accent.
Eh, not really. Madrid is really diverse and absolutely full of people from other parts of Spain, and even different neighborhoods have different accents. It's hard to find anyone who has four grandparents born in Madrid--and if you do, you might be surprised at the accent they have. You can easily hear a dozen accents in one day here. It's the main metropolis of the country (like New York).
floppydi5k@reddit
well if it makes you feel any better you should know people in the other parts of the world don’t see any difference between Europeans and Americans.
tyrspawn@reddit
None of this resembles my experience as an American living in Europe. When I say I'm from the USA and especially new York I usually get people saying how it's their dream to visit and fetishizing the USA concept. The only annoying thing is the trump lambasting but we deserve that for electing such a tool. I'm sure things will crank up again if he is reelected. It does seem like you're an apologist and not asserting yourself which may be your problem.
Snoo79084@reddit
Tell me something that isn’t ridiculous about the United States. Don’t be surprised when there’s a president who is a wrestler who formally starred in pornos. don’t be surprised when Starbucks serves blowjobs. It’s literally unsafe to express any sort of point of view without pissing someone off or possibly getting killed. America is insane. It’s $35 trillion in debt to any of you have any knowledge of quantitative easing and understand what kind of predicament the country is in. There’s not enough money to service this debt. Everyone is getting poor when the silent thief of currency debasement is happening every single day.
childofaether@reddit
Sounds like you had exaggerated mental image of "Europeans". Yes the culture is different and the things that get commonly brought up ARE real to some extent.
Americans on average may be dumber, but that's because they have a much bigger portion of their population being rural, uneducated religious monkeys. Not that you won't find this in Europe, in fact, they're in every single country in the world, but it's less prevalent in Europe and less extreme, largely due to the difference in land size/isolation and European countries' general stance on separating religion from public life and politics. If you come from a big city, you may not see much of a difference and you can be heavily biased by the subset of the population you gravitate towards.
Americans are also more patriotic, have shit healthcare, have more of a "show off" culture, are more individualistic, have even bigger of a race divide, have shit food (or at least accessibility to good food)...etc... Those things aren't non existent in Europe, and will vary from a country to another, but they're just less prevalent than they are in the US and the blanket, common statements about the US are indeed true overall.
Europe has it's own problems, but speaking for the EU countries I know, I would say the ONLY actual downsides to Europe vs the US are 1) money, and 2) that we imported some "American lite" culture and get more Americanised as time passes.
Tldr: You can find the most racist stupid piece of trash in any country just like you can find the most amazing smart young person in any country. The difference between countries is largely how the population is distributed between the two and on the spectrum in between.
ooh_sheila@reddit
This post reeks
jebadiajabujagyu@reddit
Totally incorrect on food. Food in the USA is awesome. Well at least in nyc.
JoeyMontezz@reddit
It goes like this in France. "Oh, you're American", then its one of three things: "What do you think about trump?", "Whats being an American like" or "I could never live in a country where "x" current issue".
Yeah, its exhausting, especially when they're a significantly more xenophobic culture than ours. So yeah, I feel you on this.
ooh_sheila@reddit
Xenophobic and more elitist. Close minded. But yeah they're "better" cause they can sit in open air cafes.
RobGFour@reddit
Underneath the thin veneer of Europeans' education, worldliness, manners, and culture is a brutal reality stemming from 10,000+ years of racism, xenophobia, warfare, butchery, rape, and enslavement of not just other cultures, but the people living in the next valley over!
Tribalism is real, and only thinly masked by the modern world.
Also, find new friends, and be proud of your country. Europe exists today ONLY because of American blood & American dollars. Saved from both the Germans and then the Russians, solely by the graces of our commercial interests and shared culture.
Today, as the US withdraws the protection we have provided for the last 80 years, Europe threatens to quickly revert back to it's historical norm of savagery & butchery.
ooh_sheila@reddit
The US has officially decided to stop supporting Europe?
It breaks my heart to see the unhinged anti-American sentiment in Europe while Americans are always so excited about Europe and think it's such a cultured, fancy place. Smh.
Even if it's not happening now, I hope the US will eventually stop helping them.
sosdoc@reddit
Yup, I’m from Italy and I’ve gotten plenty of shitty remarks over time from other Europeans, some time it’s downright discriminatory stuff, like rental agency refusing you because “you always pull off shady things” or that one time a recruiter immediately downplayed my education ‘cause universities work differently…
It sucks, but the people saying these things are just assholes, you don’t have to put up with them OP, you got them in the US too, but now you learned there are many in every other place. I personally just let them know they’re being hurtful, sometimes they don’t give a shit, but hey, at least you know who to avoid.
Lastly, I want to add that it feels like US sentiment has changed more recently, maybe with social media and news becoming weirder and more extreme? When I was growing up, I remember a ton of people in my country had deep admiration for the US. Lots of them knew someone who emigrated and got better opportunities, it was kind of a big deal when you’d meet someone from there.
ZebraOtoko42@reddit
There's several factors here. First, IMO, the US is in decline, and has been for 20+ years now. The US lost a lot of its international prestige with GWB's idiotic invasion of Iraq back in 2004. Of course, the internet and social media have affected things a lot too.
But things inside the US really aren't as good as they were before ~2001. Just look at the afore-mentioned school shootings, for example. The first one of those was at Columbine in 1999. Back when I grew up, the idea of a school shooting was laughable, even though Americans of course had plenty of guns, and they even had the infamous Pearl Jam song "Jeremy" in 1994. But after Columbine, school shootings got worse and worse and now they're fairly common.
Another thing that's changed is the wealth inequality: it wasn't nearly as bad 50 years ago in America. But now no one can afford a house unless they're older and didn't squander their money and already owned a house that's appreciated wildly. This isn't completely limited to the US of course, but considering how much space there is in the US, it's really appalling that the housing problem is so bad now, when it was nothing like this back in the 80s/90s when I grew up.
Since so many things now really are objectively worse in the US (mainly economically), this of course stokes tensions internally, so that's why we see stuff like MAGA and the Trump election, and this makes Americans look even worse to outsiders.
ooh_sheila@reddit
Europe isn't doing so hot either. Their extreme right parties are closer to neo Nazis while maga at least tries pandering to non white people.
Call_me_Marshmallow@reddit
True. Growing up in Italy I remember the U.S. being really admired and seen as a role model, people were always excited to meet someone from there. However, over the past years, I’ve noticed that feeling isn’t as strong as it used to be and I wonder whether it’s got to do with politics as well.
Back when Obama was president the approval rating for him and the US in Italy was 86.6% and, as long as he was in office, there was still a sense of admiration towards the U.S., but I noticed things sort of changed when the election between Hillary and Trump happened. I remember that a poll showed that most Italians wanted Hillary to win but, of course, that didn’t happen and there was a lot of disappointment. Could that have played a role? Not sure, just thinking out loud here trying to figure out what’s changed.
Unfortunately politics plays a huge role in how a country is viewed from the outside. If people don’t like your politics, your politicians, they tend to start judging other things of your country too, whether it’s social or cultural aspects, things that might have been overlooked before. That might be why, in recent years, the U.S. has been facing a wave of criticism similar to what Italy has dealt with for a long time.
For example, a few years ago I was in Sweden with an American friend and she asked me why I didn’t get upset by all the jokes and criticism the Swedes were throwing at me when they found out I was Italian (she actually got more upset than I did, trying to defend me). I told her that as an Italian living abroad I’m used to being teased and criticized, both to my face and behind my back. She felt really down after that and told me that, as an American, she had started facing the same treatment and was afraid it could keep going on. She was genuinely worried. That’s when I taught her the saying “non ti curar di loro ma guarda e passa”.
Anyhow, it’s a shitty situation.
ooh_sheila@reddit
Congrats, you ran out of the honeymoon phase in Europe and found out that the romanticization of Europe as an enlightened utopia with people far more sophisticated and cultures than Americans is just an intense form of anti-American propaganda that reared its head after Bush.
Sadly, people are convinced Americans are extreme bigots and unremorseful conservatives because of the fact that we're the most religious nation in the West and our racists are extremely vocal. However, on a day to day basis many -isms are far more normalized in most European countries while they are heavily frowned upon in the USA. I used to also see my countrymen as uneducated and stupid until living overseas. Now I appreciate Americans and the USA for what it is.
ThistleBlower93@reddit
Human beings are human beings, period.
At every single level(from middle school cliques to raging populism), human beings form alliances, allegiances, and rush to engage with in-group/out-grouo thinking scenarios---on an evolutionary level, this was an incredibly important skill.
Personally, I don't want to engage with people who are not only comfortable, but happy to sit in those most basic thoughts, perspectives, or thinking patterns. It's small-minded and boring to me.
Ok_Comfortable6537@reddit
I’m a professor who worked in the past with many Europeans in France and Belgium and Portugal and I can say that your perceptions are spot on. Part of it is they are tired of us being a world power that got to dominate everything last 50 years, part of it is a kind of schadenfraude they feel as our nation is beginning to fall apart. With me they especially made fun of how Americans are so religious. And all the racism and guns. I get it but it is really hard to tolerate at times. And yes- their racism can be just as intense. Also it’s important to think about the time period. I’ve lived abroad at different times and it depends a lot on different presidential administrations and how they act in the world. TBH it was the glory days when Obama was in power because they all approved and admired our “overcoming racism” to vote him in. Now that we are suffering the backlash to that era there is no sympathy. Plus all the tourists and digital nomads make them angry! I get that as well as my home town in California has been colonized by Hollywood types and I can’t live there anymore!
ZebraOtoko42@reddit
They're right about the religion and guns--they don't have those problems so much in Europe, except with their Muslim populations. But the racism thing is hypocritical: Europeans are at least as racist as Americans, and probably a lot more really. If there's one thing American culture really excels at, it's integrating people from all over the world, at least when you compare to everyplace else (where they either do a really terrible job of it, or don't do it at all).
Jacob_Soda@reddit
I see you live in Japan but I know from my few experiences with Japanese that Japanese are xenophobic too. As they won't even have a chit chat with someone Non Japanese.
ZebraOtoko42@reddit
Japanese don't chit-chat with anyone. It's not a chit-chatty culture like America. And how would you know anyway? If you don't speak Japanese, you can't very well chit-chat with a Japanese person unless they're one of the rare ones that speaks English well (which is very uncommon).
Birbattitude@reddit
Man you should have tried being in France during the Bush II administration.
wandering_engineer@reddit
Agreed. People everywhere are xenophobic and shitty, honestly truly seeing has been one of the worst parts of the expat lifestyle. It might have been an important evolutionary trait, but I think it should be obvious why, as an expat, I am not a fan of judging and hating on people based on what lump of rock they were born on. Can't say it makes me feel positive thoughts for the bunch of glorified apes we call humanity.
ThistleBlower93@reddit
I am someone who enjoys a well spiced peach cobbler! I enjoy all facets of a well made cobbler: ripe peaches, a flaky crust, and different spice blends to bring out the best parts of the other components.
There are people out there who hate peaches, and will talk your ear off about how they taste like vomit. Some people aren't adventurous enough to try new spice blends, and still others will not be able to stop comparing the crust to the way their mom makes it.
The ONLY upside to there being 8B people is that you might be able to find a handful of people that also appreciate peach cobbler!! Trying to convince the others to try the cobbler or to see its benefits is exhausting and depressing.
It really doesn't cost me anything to let those people live the sad cobbler-less lives that they desire---life is too short to continue interacting with anyone who "yucks your yum."
While I understand why they feel the way that they do, I don't share those feelings, and I'd rather not spend my precious time with ignorance or banality. I have come to appreciate people advertising their (flawed) opinions...it's the trash taking itself out!
wandering_engineer@reddit
I get your point, and I certainly don't waste breath trying to bend people's preconceived worldviews. I was more specifically referring to general xenophobia and nativitism, which I think exists in literally every society on Earth. The fact that people happily shit on each other and quickly divide themselves into tribes is, I think, one of the great fallacies of humanity. People who are not xenophobic certainly exist, but IME they are the <1%.
malinovy_zakat@reddit
I am an Eastern European immigrant living in the States, and unfortunately I can relate to pretty much everything you mentioned in the post, even though our backgrounds are a little different.
But there was a time where I didn't say a word very clearly and had to repeat myself, and one of his friends responded to me condescendingly sounding out the word and making me repeat it to him like an episode of Dora.
This especially triggered me. As you already know, English is my second language, and one time a friend of mine was really bothered by my pronunciation of the word salmon. And they did exactly what you were talking about: sounded out the word and made me repeat it.
When one guy asks if I'm American and I tell him yes, he goes on to tell me that he would "never visit my piece of shit country" or be around "stupid Americans".
My country has the worst reputation because of our government, and obviously nobody wants to visit it or get to know my culture. Moreover, my partner was born and raised in the US, and some of his friends openly say they would never date an immigrant.
Later, we are passing a group of Americans and one of his friends starts kind of heckling them in ""English"" and making fun of their accents, while his other friends, behind laughs, tell him to stop because I'm there.
I can't even describe how embarrassed I am of my accent. Because as sad as it is, some people would look down on me immediately after hearing my accent. A few times, people would ask me if I was Brazilian or French, and when I told them my country of origin, they genuinely looked disappointed.
Basically, I feel like I have tried really hard to learn the language, engage in the culture, and speak to people from this country and other countries. Certainly not everyone is disrespectful to me or to all Americans, but it happens enough to get annoying and honestly hurtful.
I 100% relate to this. I tried my best to learn English and engage in the culture, but Americans really push me away. At this moment, the only born and raised American person I talk to and have a relationship with is my partner. All of my friends are immigrants. I also feel like Americans tend to exclude me all the time.
Maybe I'm being too sensitive and need to just develop thicker skin.
I don't think you are being too sensitive. Like you seem open-minded and empathetic, but the people around you are rude and disrespectful. As I said, I had similar experiences too, and it's really hurtful when people treat you this way for things you can't change about yourself.
I know I have to get used to it, but sometimes I wonder if it's even worth staying here if so many people will disrespect me or think they know everything about me because of my nationality.
You need to think about pros and cons and what really matters to YOU. I stayed in the US because I wanted to finish college here (unfortunately degrees from my home country are worthless) and get a citizenship (once again with my home country's passport I can't travel anywhere without a visa). Well, I got what I wanted, so now I wonder if I really want to stay in the States, and a part of me is convinced that it is not worth it anymore.
A few things that made my life easier: 1) I joined a eastern European club (they have members from different states) and it's a huge difference (like they actually treat me with respect and dignity); 2)I stopped trying to integrate into the culture anymore or be friends with Americans; 3) I focus on positive aspects of my life here.
Other than that, if you are passionate about teaching English, maybe you can move to a different European country? (One of my co-workers taught English in Latvia I think and absolutely loved it). But I don't think it's worth staying if your experiences are mainly negative.
Best of luck!
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I'm so sorry to hear that and it's shameful that people would treat you well. I of course would encourage you to meet other American people, but I understand your hesitance. What part of the US are you in? Maybe I sometimes over-idealize where I'm from (Los Angeles) and how people from other countries are generally seen there, but I'm sure that in many places in the US the mentality is a lot more close-minded than I would realize. Even I, as an American, would find it difficult to fit in to the cultures of certain American cities because they aren't as aligned with what I like.
As other people have said on this thread, it just seems to be the price you pay for being the "foreigner" and it could basically happen to anyone anywhere. I understand what you say about feeling like you can't make American friends because I sometimes feel l struggle a lot with befriending Spanish people. There are some who I've met that I've gotten along with but then hanging out with their friend groups there's always someone who makes some sort of comment or joke at my expense.
I do think my post is only telling the negative experiences and there are a lot of positive experiences I've had here and opportunities to learn more about people/society in general. I guess what I do worry about is how I "fit in" to this cultural dynamic. But then sometimes I also feel like I could be giving up before reaching a point where I find a good community of people.
malinovy_zakat@reddit
I'm in Washington state! Btw I was thinking about moving to LA, so if you have anything to share about living there, please don't hesitate!
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Personally I love LA, but probably because I'm from there. I can imagine it being kind of a weird place as an outsider. My experience with people who move to LA is that they can become very absorbed in this "Hollywood"/"glamorous" fake lifestyle that others (usually also from outside of LA) try to portray. This can be a massive turn off for people. However, at the core of LA are people who are quite open minded, curious, and kind. LA is definitely very expensive and the type of place where having a car is almost necessary. Some neighborhoods are better to live in than others, but they can also be quite expensive. I think you would find a much more robust international community in LA, but many of them may be very wealthy people who love to flaunt their money instead of make actual connections with people. LA has a lot of fakeness, but again, at its core are very positive, friendly people with curiosity. LA always has something to do, and while certainly things need to be improved (car-dependent infrastructure, high cost of living, huge homelessness problem, safety depending on area you're in), it feels like a city full of possibilities. I have to admit though, if I wasn't from LA, I think I would find it a very strange place and maybe would get caught up too much in the superficiality of it all. Visiting would be a good idea if you haven't, although LA isn't necessarily the best place to be a tourist.
I think there are lots of other places near LA that are also great, like Santa Barbara, a smaller town but with some international community, the best weather on the planet, beautiful beaches, and people that can be described as "bougie hippies" (I'm sure Washington state has the same type) but open-minded and kind. Some people like Orange County, but to me it's a more conservative, strongly "American" kind of Trump-y vibe that keeps me away. I think San Diego is a great city, but I for some reason have had some trouble befriending people there. San Francisco is (while far from LA) an amazing city, more walkable/better public transportation, what some would describe as a more "European" city (whatever that really means). I love it there, and while some people are again, "bougie hippies" (some of them in SF extremely entitled and snobby), the level of open-mindedness is truly unmatched. However, SF is a "smaller" city limited by the water around it lol, which makes it a very expensive place to live. Some people don't love the weather there either, as it's not what we typically think of "California" weather.
Proper_Duty_4142@reddit
I'm sorry to hear your story. I'm also from Europe living in WA state and never had a bad experience. We've got plenty of friends here.
Tricky_Hamster_285@reddit
Your experience is for you. Good and not so good. I am a US military vet married to my eu spouse. I have lived in Bavaria (Bayern,) Berlin, and for some years in Poland. Look, the USA has 350+million people. It's enormous by geography, wealth, global leverage, and it's not perfect. I got all the: 'vas do you tink of the Donald Trump?' 'why do you shoot schools?' 'why is there no healthcare?' .....many many more and less pointedly throughout my 8+ years living OCONUS. You'll find your way to answer these questions. I try to maintain a neutral and kind "I'm not smart enough to speak on that, haha. Why's the supposed Holy Cow of rail transit, Deutsche Bahn becoming less reliable in major cities? Ooh! What are your thoughts on Former Chancellor Merkel's involvement in Nord Stream and the refuges?" You might find they're well aware of their inadequacies. I never flaunt my citizenship. Always a guest- except in my home in Poland.
anglophile_mw@reddit
I found your post very helpful. I feel virtually exactly the way you felt when initially moving to Europe. I'm moving to Portugal in 3 months. I'm not that young, 50 ish and my husband is older. We have traveled a lot in Europe and I usually apologize for being American before anyone has time to criticize it.
Both of my daughters live in the UK, one in London and one in Cardiff. They feel the same way about America as you did, but possibly feel more ashamed of the country. They have not had your experience at all. They have been welcomed by locals, with one exception. When almost anyone initially finds out they are American, they ask them what the hell is up with our guns, which is a legit question.
I'm concerned in Portugal I will experience similar disdain from local people, partially deserved bc I have not been as diligent about learning portuguese as I should have been. But I don't think it will bother me v much. Jerks are jerks in any country. And I'm also older and things seem less important. But I super appreciate your post bc we'll be living in a town that is 3 km from Spain and forewarned is forearmed.
zukias@reddit
UK is a bit different due to the shared history, language and ancestry (even if you are not ethnically anglo-celtic, it is still assumed if you are a white american)
robotbike2@reddit
Agreed on the long post comments. TLDR/Summary, please. It is absolutely not reasonable to expect people to read that.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Okay, then move on to the next post? Nobody's forcing you to read this.
zukias@reddit
Remember, we are in an era now where videos must never be more than 1 minute, and people get their news via short snippets they can quickly scroll through on their phone... and everyone seems to have ADHD these days...
zukias@reddit
Lots of European humour (British, Dutch, Danish, ...) can be very brutal. In the UK we call it "banter", which is basically where you take the piss out of everyone and everything, including yourself, and you can forget about political correctness, and is usually between just men. Jokes must appear real as well. If you make it too obvious you're joking, it's not funny. If you include "/s" at the end of a sentence in an online joke, no Brit will be laughing. As an expat myself, I hold much more positive and realistic views of Americans, but one generalisation I am willing to make is that they don't fare well with European humour. 🤣
krawatz@reddit
I don’t make my nationality a thing. I don’t talk a lot about where I am from. I mention it when asked and that’s it. I don’t take offence when someone brings up some prejudices. I never had more then harmless banter. I never got offended I never had problems like this and I lived in 3 other countries. I also don’t judge people on where they are from. And I am judged by how I act and not by where I’m from. So don’t be an American in Spain. Be an interesting person which also happens to be American. Nobody cares where you from.
zigzog9@reddit
Their countries are literally littered with colonial relics that were built from slavery and they see it as grand art… at least most Americans that travel abroad scoff at the confederate flag and would critique something like a plantation wedding. Plenty of Europeans are proud of their nasty colonial racist history and show off their stolen goods. I met an African man when I was living in a rural town outside a city in Italy and he was shocked I as a white person would even talk to him because the Italians wouldn’t even talk to him. Everyone on the bus looked at us so suspiciously as if we were doing something sinister just talking. I saw Americans dress up in black face as slaves at a festival because they said their Austrian coworkers convinced them to (the theme was cowboys, literally nothing to do with slaves but guess you gotta fit black face in somehow…). It was crazy. The US public school I work at is so diverse and even the staff is majority white, they’re so culturally sensitive. We’re bad for a lot of reasons but also not.
fake-newz@reddit
Fuck you for not having a TLDR
more_adventurous@reddit
I’m a dual citizen in Italy..in my neighborhood I’m sure I’m known as “the American.” it’s fine..I speak Italian, I hang out at the bar every morning with them, we walk our dogs and hang out in the piazza - but I still will always be a foreigner here. I’m ok…I try to think that I’m an ambassador sometimes, and hope maybe the people I interact with will think differently.
who knows. But since Biden dropped for Kamala to step in I’ve never felt so much FOMO for being around during the elections. I’m so proud of this movement and will be more so if we can take control.
we look like dumbasses abroad bc we had an absolute asshole/criminal/rapist as our former president for 4 years. He did a lot of fucking damage on how we are seen abroad.
lifeadvice7843@reddit
Europe likes to market itself as more 'enlightened' or 'sophisticated' its North American cousin, but an ignorant racist drinking wine on a cobblestoned street is still an ignorant racist at the end of the day ;)
Honestly, it sounds like you need better friends. Who see the nuance in things. And can laugh at themselves just as much as they laugh at you! Hugs
psycologina@reddit
I’m an immigrant in USA, I went to grad school here so my English is good. I have had the same or worst experiences in USA. I think that’s a common experience from immigrants. Anywhere you go… you will find ignorant people. The more you travel the more you realize how we are all the same. There is good and bad people in every country
witchiligo@reddit
Man it doesn't matter where you are from, or where you immigrate to. There will always be people who will take issue with your country of origin and/or they fact you are there to begin with. I come from a poor and shitty country in the Balkans and especially when I was living in northern Europe the passive aggressive shit I came across was intense. I now also live in Spain, work here, get a Spanish salary but I can still feel a general air of hostility which makes me uneasy. I don't know what to tell you, it sucks. After working all kinds of jobs abroad for so many years I feel like I don't belong anywhere and I'm a burden everywhere I move to. It's fucking depressing. Sometimes I consider giving it all up and moving back to my shithole of a country and rot away in peace.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
I’ve hear some of these comments but I don’t let it bother me. They make fun of our gun culture and American arrogance. Some of the hate I under because when I encounter Americans abroad and they’re rude and loud that’s all these people have as an example. They have probably never been to the US to see exactly how great our country is and encounter people in their everyday lives versus a YOLO moment in Barcelona. My French bf always make fun of Americans but I don’t let it bother. I accept and love my new home so I adapt and be around people that accept me. Lastly also no surprise with the rise of “can I bring all my guns and lift truck” posts in the Spain expat groups that they’re turned off by our culture
Sceeup_ya_pup@reddit
Call the cunts out directly "that's quite a rude thing to say" "you seem to have strong opinions about it" "do you think you DONT have an accent?" "I have encountered extreme ignorance here // in your country exhibit A (point at them". Or decide in your heart that what other ppl think is none of your business. Don't engage with their pettiness. Its hard, but they are not worth your time.
alittledanger@reddit
Dual U.S.-Irish citizen who also lived in Spain here. I have had similar conversations a thousand times in English and Spanish.
I just roll my eyes and politely go down the list of how reliant Europe is on the U.S. for defense, financial markets, and technology. And point out how there is basically almost no racist chanting at sports games in the U.S. And how much better we are at integrating immigrants.
Then I ask them how much they have spent in the U.S., and the answer is usually not much. At which point, I drop the politeness and just lambast them for being a dumbass who believes everything they see online.
It usually works lol
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Yup, those who have lived in the US typically only have great things to say and look back on the experience fondly. They don't have those same stereotypes.
barbaraleon@reddit
They only have great things to say if they're not disadvantaged. Xenophobia is definitely alive in the US. 🙄
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
True, in my response I was referring to Europeans who typically don't experience xenophobia or racism in the US. People from other parts of the world certainly experience xenophobia/racism in the US.
neonblakk@reddit
I think there’s levels to this. I think it’s wrong to just openly bash someone’s country to their face but also, what would you do if you were in their shoes? What if they HAD met many obnoxious, entitled, weird, superficial and fake Americans? What if there were obvious cultural differences that stood out?
Would saying something like ‘normally I dislike Americans but you’re cool’ really be passive aggressive? Wouldn’t it also be a way of opening up and being genuine with you? To not hide their negative feelings based on negative experiences which they’ve genuinely had.
This thread seems to mostly be supportive to your post, because you wrote it in a sympathetic way, yet we all know the world is full of anti-American sentiment, so where have the haters ran off to? Well, I’ll be the first to admit I’ve been guilty of this. I know all Americans are individuals yet I’ve had so many encounters with Americans that I’d describe as unpleasant.
Yet I would never use stupidity as America’s greatest cultural sin. You use this as a metric a lot in your post to gauge someone’s worth (how much do they know about geography, how many languages do they speak, etc). For me, I’ve formed an opinion that many Americans are both fake and superficial, far more than they are stupid.
In this sense, I also think the metric of comparing people’s intelligence is superficial. It stands out to you as most triggering, yet it’s also the metric you use to judge people; to say Europeans are just as ‘dumb’ as your lot.
Also, a genuine question: are you the type of American who needs all interactions to go extremely positive? This can be jarring for other countries and can come across as ‘fake’. I’m not saying you’re wrong but it could be contributing to people wanting to ‘bring you down a notch.’ Again, not saying they have a right to do that, but I wonder if this would happen to an American with a different, more cynical mindset? Like, a lot of Americans tend to turn me into Larry David for some reason, and I do tend to want to curb their enthusiasm, so to speak.
Anyways, sorry this is happening. It sounds shitty. I do think there is a lot of prejudice against Americans, probably more than any other group. I just wanted to share my thoughts even though I come at it from the complete opposite side.
At the end of the day it’s obviously wrong to abuse someone’s country in front of their face like that, but I also think there are levels to it. Mostly, you do have the power to influence people to like Americans and if they reveal to you their negative thoughts / experiences, you might want to also listen and empathize. If they’re your genuine friend they’ll also do the same to you.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
It's entirely possible that they have met people like that from any country. The point I'm making in my post is that "obnoxious, entitled, weird, superficial and fake" people exist in every country and Europe is not an exception. What happens is this kind of confirmation bias, where you have a certain stereotype or idea that exists about a certain country, and meeting someone who fits that stereotype makes you feel like you can assume that all people are like that. I could easily say, based off of the experiences I've had of Europeans saying really rude things to me about me or my country, that Europeans are all "obnoxious, entitled, weird, superficial, and fake", but I don't do that because I know not to generalize people and there exist plenty of people who don't fit into my stereotypical, negative view of a whole country.
You make a point with the superficiality, as the US is a very individualistic and consumerist country. I can see how this rubs off the wrong way on people, and it's probably one of the things that made me want to get out.
You may be right that I expect positivity in all interactions, but I would say not just in the US but in all the Americas, there is a certain level of respect and openness expected towards people you don't know, which is not as common in Europe. That can be a hard pill to swallow but I probably need to work on adjusting my expectations.
As you have said "I do think there is a lot of prejudice against Americans, probably more than any other group." If you think this is true, than you can probably understand my frustrations dealing with this type of mentality constantly. And to be honest, your response reeked of these American prejudices that you yourself seem to hold. But if there's one thing I can take from your response it's to adjust my expectations.
whathellsthis@reddit
Spaniard here living in the USA for 12-13? Years now. I wouldn’t change the USA for Spain or any European city. Europe sits in this throne of moral and all things superiority when in reality they just don’t have a clue. They are quick to mention when they come here on vacation though.
EricThirteen@reddit
Wow that’s too bad to read! I spent quite a bit of time in Spain in the early 90s. (Yes, I’m old.) I honestly made friends everywhere I went. It sounds like my fluency was somewhere around your level, too. Maybe a little worse.
The only people I didn’t like in Spain were the British. They were all the biggest fucking twats. It didn’t matter if they were 70 years old or 20. It seemed like Britain sent their dumbest to live in Spain. I spent a few months in Vienna around that time and overall I found them to be rather unfriendly.
Some of my best memories of my 50 years are of Madrid and Malaga and to a lesser extent, Vigo. I remember meeting so many friendly people everywhere I went. Men, women, children, even a family.
Maybe try putting yourself in new situation with a better group of people that doesn’t include your boyfriend. They just don’t seem like the best people to be around. Ever want to learn to play chess? Find a chess club.
Don’t invite your boyfriend.
madamnospam@reddit
Agreed. The boyfriend doesn’t sound all-in on OP’s side! Either get on OP’s side or get out.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
This. More concerned about humoring his friends vs. putting them in check for making his gf feel disrespected.
outtahere416@reddit
Welcome to being an immigrant.
barbaraleon@reddit
Exactly, she probably thought the concept of being an "expat" would shield her from the plight of the common immigrant.
hudibrastic@reddit
I’m Brazilian and I’m already sick of Europeans making jokes or bad-mouthing the US with a sense of superiority, can only imagine how you feel
sedicenucelar@reddit
As a Spaniard who lived in the US quite a few years, I often find myself “defending” Americans in casual conversation with Spanish and other Europeans friends. It’s almost as if people use it as an ice breaker when I mentioned I lived there.
Americans were nice to me and my family. Always tried to make us feel welcome. I had my own biases before going there. It was around the time Trump just got elected and the world was in shock. But it’s a country with bright and dark sides like any other, but it’s the target of a worldwide biased propaganda that typically affect any country/person/company that outstands above the rest.
Since you are in Spain you might enjoy the book “Imperiofobia”, that traces parallelisms between anti-American propaganda today and anti-Spanish sentiment when Spain was a world power.
Head_Lecture_7084@reddit
As someone from Latin America, reading “latino people” made me feel uneasy.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
What would you prefer me to say?
Head_Lecture_7084@reddit
Nor every country in Latin America is the same or even speak the same language, we have different cultures and history so seeing all of us classified as one thing is kind of upsetting.
There’s not one term for us, we are not all the same. In the same way that you don’t want people referring to Americans as if they are all the same.
That’s kind of it.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Well I said my boyfriend is Latino and has Latino friends. They all identify as Latino, and they are from a range of countries. My family is from a Latin-American country and they also identify as Latino. I'm not saying that everyone needs to identify like this, I'm just saying in the case of what I was explaining, my boyfriends friends, they absolutely identify as Latino so there was nothing wrong with me saying "Latino people".
Head_Lecture_7084@reddit
Ah one more thing, please understand that not only your boyfriend, his friends and your family are Latin, there are other people born in Latin America who don’t find ok to be called that so, if you want to be accepted by others and avoid the stereotypes, make sure to treat others in the same way and not decide that you know more like the whoops stereotypical Americans…
Crazy how the wheel spins.
Head_Lecture_7084@reddit
Ok Barbara, you win. Happy?
Jarcom88@reddit
I am Spanish living in the usa and I can tell you most of my friends and family do not like the usa.
I think it's mostly because of the idea the usa has been projecting over the years like this great nation of opportunity and freedom which is actually not.
We also dislike that you call everything Spanish, dismissing our identity.
And it got worse when you voted Trump. Seriously, why?
Yes a lot of people, specially older, don't speak English. The language they used to teach at school was French. The difference is we don't go around the world expecting everyone to know our language and assuming less cultivated those who don't know it. And many Americans assume that. Like you, expecting people in other countries to know English. That's were the complain comes from againts Americans. If you don't make the effort to learn another language, don't expect others to do it.
I also get a lot of anti Spanish hate in the usa. Everything positive I say about Spain gets dismissed with "how is the unemployment there?" Well, 25% of american workers are still in some sort of subsidize, foodstamps, section8 etc...
Anyway, it's two different countries and systems. Quality of life is much better in Spain, in my opinion. In the US you can make way much more money than in Spain, for sure, at the price of not having much of a life. In Spain you can live very well without not that much money. You are going to enjoy one more depending in your ambitions.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I don't call everything Spanish. I never and never would vote Trump. I didn't expect everyone to speak English, in fact, most Americans make the effort to speak Spanish when in Spain. It's usually the British that have that expectation. I speak Spanish. You are just stereotyping.
Jarcom88@reddit
You are ONE American that speaks Spanish, which apparently you do it for a living. Most people in America that speaks Spanish is because they or the parents or grandparents are from a south/central American country. White Caucasian Americans? Rare. I honestly don't know any. I am not stereotyping, I am talking by experience.
White Americas, in my experience, maybe not as strongly in NYC but anywhere in the east coast where I have most of my friends, have 0 curiosity about what's going on outside the USA. Because there is so much to see in the USA! it's so big!
I mean... have you been in Barcelona, Dresden, Venice, Carcassonne, Bruges, etc? Because to me Boston, Chicago, NY, are all very alike in comparison with the offer in Europe. You get why the call San Francisco "the most European city in the USA!!" 🤣
Just so you have an idea, a friend asked me why are you single if you are this and this and that, and I told him "well because when I meet American men, I always feel like they put no effort because it kind of feels like they think i should be thankful to be with them because being a white American male is the best that can happen to you" and he looked at me shocked! and said "well, being honest, the best that can happen to you is to be born white American male"
So... God bless America...
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
The US has more Spanish speakers than Spain. The only country with more Spanish speakers is Mexico. You say that it's "only" because we have Latin-American families (which we do), but that's the entire point of the US... We are a country of immigrants that bring our cultures and languages (that, yes, can disappear with generations). I do see what you say, though, that people in smaller cities/towns in the US can definitely be quite ignorant. I guess being from a big city, I really didn't interact much with those kinds of people. I have always known being in a city of immigrants.
Jarcom88@reddit
We make the effort to learn English. You don't make the effort to learn Spanish, you either learn it from your parents or not at all. That's 99% america.
If I have learn something about Americans in my 14 years here, is that you take things incredibly personal. Any disagreement about America is a fight.
We laugh about ourselves a lot. We live longer too.
Good luck living in America with the salary of a Spanish teacher/tutor. Whatever you do... 🙄
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
You also have extensively more resources given to you from a young age (I think this is more common now in Spain) to learn English, and more incentive to learn it for work and travel opportunities. English is a universal language and it provides people with benefits if they learn it, socially and professionally.
I think it's fair to say that we do take things personally, but many of us are tired about people from other countries constantly commenting on us when we grow up being from different backgrounds and (some, not all) are taught to respect people no matter where they're from. I could develop a thicker skin though, that is true.
Congrats for living longer, I'm sure that if you live in the US you can see how unequal and inaccessible health care can be, whereas people in Spain have the right to free/cheap medical care and don't have to, say, commit suicide because they're ill and don't want to leave their family with their crippling medical debt as has happened several times in the US.
If you read the post, I live in Spain. I'm doing fine with my salary. It's a shame that you are now starting to look down on people from your own country for making low salaries.
Jarcom88@reddit
That's what I am trying to explain you. What I said in my first comment financial disparities are way bigger in the USA. You wouldn't live here teaching Spanish.
Jarcom88@reddit
I only hear excuses. I am 42 years old, people my generation left to college knowing the to be verb, the colors and the numbers pretty much. TV/movies is never in the original version. Now you can find ways, but we are used to doubled. I could barely have a conversation in English when I moved here. I was 27.
If you want you learn.
MeanLet4962@reddit
There is no difference between Europe and United States when it comes to ignorance and the sense of entitlement, except that folks from most European countries (Spain is an exception!) have a genuine curiosity towards foreign cultures and languages. Americans, in their majority, do not. What you feel about Spain is what I felt about both Spain and still feel about the US.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I'm interested in why you think Spain is an exception. I think the Spanish-speaking world is so large and full of amazing culture that they don't step out of this Spanish-speaking bubble and don't have the same curiosity towards other cultures. That being said, people in the US come from many different backgrounds, and I think you may be underestimating the curiosity that a lot of American people have about their own backgrounds and other countries around them. I think this can vary, but I feel confident to speak on my experience being from a large American city and now living in the largest Spanish city, that it feels like people in my American city had more curiosity/respect for other cultures globally than Spanish people in Madrid seem to have.
MeanLet4962@reddit
I think Spain is an exception precisely for the reason you nicely highlighted in your reply. I’ve found that many Spaniards are very comfortable in their own bubble and make little effort to understand what’s happening outside of it. There’s a lack of interest in foreign languages (unlike the Dutch, Scandinavians, and some Eastern European countries), and little curiosity about how other cultures may be more efficient in certain sectors or services. Instead, they seem to use the “siesta” culture as an excuse, prioritizing personal time over getting things done - though I wonder, why not balance both? The list goes on.
I admire their orientation toward human rights values and believe they set a good example of how a society should approach and act on these issues. However, when it comes to intellectual engagement, I feel under-stimulated in a Spanish environment, whether in social settings or the workplace. I’m not saying they’re unintelligent, because they clearly aren’t, but the lack of curiosity is evident in many social contexts. For someone with a curious mind, this can come across as mediocrity or simply boring.
Now, back to the U.S.: I understand what you’re saying about Americans showing curiosity about other cultures, but I’ve primarily seen this in larger cities, not in smaller towns. I’ve traveled extensively across the country, and one thing that has disappointed me is the lack of effort in understanding someone speaking with a different accent. This is something I’ve never encountered in the UK, Canada, Ireland, or the parts of Australia I’ve visited. In those places, there was no language barrier. I never heard a “What did you say?” or “Come again?” But in the U.S. (especially in smaller towns), I experienced this often. I’ve stopped expecting Americans to learn a second language, but when someone doesn’t even make an effort to understand a foreign accent, it feels like they’re leading a sheltered life and they’re unmotivated to step outside their comfort zone. Moreover, my American spouse has explicitly and repeatedly told me that the average American isn’t the sharpest tool in the shed - they often don’t know the capitals of their own states, confuse the different amendments of the Constitution, and have little awareness of what’s happening outside their country. Even scarier, I’ve seen for myself that many people lack basic math skills, and some even deny the priority of multiplication and division over addition and subtraction, simply claiming they didn’t like math in high school. I’ve noticed this in people living in big cities too, which genuinely shocked me.
What I’m trying to say is that the average American isn’t any better than the average Spaniard, and the days when most Europeans viewed America with respect are long gone. I strongly disagree with anti-American sentiment, just as I do with anti-Italian or anti-French sentiment. However, I must admit that if the average European crosses paths with an American in Europe, they’re probably not as interested in getting to know them as they might have been 20 years ago.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Thank you for this response! I do think I suffer a bit from the "grass is always greener on the other side" syndrome where I probably now am over-romanticizing the US from afar. Oh, the irony. One difference that a Dutch person who lived in the US pointed out to me was that people whose families have immigrated more recently tend to have a bit more of an open perspective on this kind of thing, and being from an immigrant family I think we tend to try not to judge people for accents, culture, etc. However, I can't deny that I've met plenty of Americans who are not quite this way, and they typically are those who have had generations in the country and don't have ties with being anything other than "American".
MeanLet4962@reddit
I can relate as I was in your phase at some point in the past - romanticizing the U.S. from afar after realizing that my social and workplace needs weren’t being met in some parts of Europe, including Spain. Now that I’m in the U.S., those needs are fully met, and the grass does feel greener on this side, but solely from this perspective. On the other hand, the possibility of a new Trump & Vance era, where certain human rights are being challenged or even threatened, concerns me greatly. It‘a quite painful for me to accept that I wouldn’t have to worry about these issues in the Spain I’ve been criticizing for so long, yet here the threats and concerns are very legitimate.
This brings me to the realization that no place in the world is going to check every box on my wishlist. The question I need to ask myself, just as you should ask yourself, is: what concessions am I willing to make when deciding where to live? There will always be compromises, no matter where you end up. If you can live with them and they won’t drastically lower your quality of life, then you probably have your answer :)
madjuks@reddit
Sounds like you’re encountering a lot of arseholes. There are good people out there don’t get yourself down over it
coyotelurks@reddit
I'm an American who has lived in Italy and currently the Netherlands for 15 years. I have not had anything like that experience. I do get the occasional person asking the stereotypical questions about guns and so on. But not often, and sometimes those questions lead to meaningful conversations.
Maybe it's because I'm older and don't spend time in bars, I'm around different people. It sounds to me like you need to change who you hang out with and where.
Shitty for you, and I'm sad you are having this experience. I hope you find a way to a better place.
ya-@reddit
totally my personal experience, EU is much more racist compared to US
Berliner1220@reddit
OP I feel this 1000%. I am an American living in Berlin and dated a Spaniard (no longer together). His family was exactly as you described. Very xenophobic and arrogant and thought that they were better than everyone because they were from Madrid. It was such a turn off. I got the same annoying comments about being an American from them. “Americans are so far, Americans are so stupid” again and again. After we broke up I realized that I don’t want to be around people who talk like that.
There are assholes everywhere. But being a foreigner is tough no matter what. This is what makes me want to move back stateside.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Do you see this same attitude in Berlin? How do you think Spanish people compare in terms of cultural consciousness, xenophobia, etc.?
Berliner1220@reddit
There’s this attitude in Berlin too. Lots of leftist people who find out you’re American and immediately start saying bullshit. It’s just a part of life in Europe I think. The Spanish family I got to know from my ex was especially bad I would say. They really always took everything too far and didn’t care if I was getting upset.
Ineedafingusername@reddit
Thank you for sharing, this is a good lesson. We won't be moving to Europe permanently for a few years, but my mindset has definitely been where yours was before - slightly embarrassed/ cringey that I'm American (especially right now), hoping people can see that I'm a good person and we're not all stereotypical. Now I will try to be mindful of the things that I'm proud of, the culture and Americanisms I want to keep and carry forward with once I live in Europe. I appreciate you putting this on my radar.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Hopefully I haven't scared you at all! I think obviously learning the local language is always the best bet, but keep in mind that Americans tend to be quite friendlier with strangers, whereas Europeans tend to have more long-lasting friend groups (I've met several who have friendships starting in pre-school) so it can be harder to make friends as many of them feel that they have their friends covered. But don't let anyone make you feel bad about where you're from!
Ineedafingusername@reddit
Not at all, I welcome it! Since we have a 3-4 year plan, there are many things we're shifting our focus toward in preparation.
- learning the language
- paring down what we already own, not buying things, and planning to leave it all behind
- focusing on what we actually need, what's enough, and how to simplify from our incredibly "abundant" culture and societal ideals (decision fatigue! Too many choices! Too much work!)
- and now, thanks to you, what are the things we really love about being American? How to carry that with us and be proud of it.
Seems like a really positive thing right now, in light of all the negative things happening around us everyday, to remind ourselves it's never all bad. There are kernels of American-ness that are good. It reminds me of counseling - separating your values from your programming, or the wheat from the chaff, if you will. Keep what's important and blow the rest into the wind.
Ajeel_OnReddit@reddit
That is called a toxic society trait, I know because I grew up in one, the middle east is full of them. When a society thinks they are better than everyone, they lack real diversity in their societies so they develop toxic traits.
Think of it like toxic families, only socially normalized.
Every friend you make, every person you meet, is going to think of themselves as better than another. It's ego, racism, and a superiority complex on a different level.
European racism is probably really bad, but there is enough diversity within Europe to offset the negative effects of ethno centricity that some places still struggle with.
The US has had a head start socially and is likely going to course correct at some point in the future much sooner than other places socially, racism and any form of discrimination is taken much more seriously than in other parts of the world. The US is a mess, but only because of how open and honest it's flaws are, I know that because I grew up in the US and in Kuwait, the middle east as a whole has a history of hiding the shame and sweeping it under the rug or letting those skeletons linger in the closet.
Europe is definitely better than other places around the world, but the US has had a longer history of diversity and as such will likely find solutions to those social problems sooner than most places.
Yes, the US is the most important country in human history, even with all its flaws it continues to fail upwards. That speaks volumes.
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Not saying this to attack you but it sends you have a lot of weird internalized self loathing. People might pick up on that and respond accordingly. I have a huge multi national friend group here and have NEVER once heard anyone talk trash on Americans.
In fact, when people ask if I’m British because I speak English, I am the one who makes those “Don’t say I’m from that disgusting shithole” comments. I fully lean into the hyper masculine pro-gun fuck-yeaa-freedom persona (more because it entertains me) and whenever anyone is rude, I show them what arrogance and a sense of superiority looks like.
“Whatever we truly think of ourselves, the world will mostly agree with us”. Honestly, I’d recommend mental health counseling.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I would say that I moved to Europe with a self-loathing but have grown to really appreciate the US as a country. I think what bothers me is the presumption that I am an ignorant or dumb person because of where I am from. And yes, it happens often enough where people make these comments that it starts to affect me because I feel like I am constantly misunderstood or not given a chance. I think "leaning into" the stereotype doesn't help anything, nor insulting British people as you've done because that would just be hypocritical of me in this situation. To say that you'd "recommend mental health counseling" is extremely condescending, I am here just venting my frustrations for the way that people have treated me from my personal experience.
OutsideWishbone7@reddit
Ouch… you are hurt.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
Nope...you're just trolling, and they called it out. It happens. Cope and seethe, my friend.
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
SMH disagree completely. Have some pride in the states. The US society is the global engine for multi-industry R&D innovation and is the greatest structure for upward economic mobility that has ever existed. The only people who think the US is ignoring are cucked out shitlibs
SubstanceNext9543@reddit
It's rather rich is in it, getting this external feedback from others who might have never even been to the US. I honestly would reply with "oh where in the US have you visited?"
Hopefully, the question makes way for self reflection. The self reflection being, they have a limited viewpoint with no actual data/real life experience other than small group of Americans who visit their country. If you gather your experience of another country through a screen and small subset of visitors from said country, then you are very uncultured.
franckJPLF@reddit
I don’t understand your issue tbh. I mean, you left the US because you hated it, right? Why would you be bothered by others hating it just like you did? Pride?
Personally I hate my home country (France) and would agree with anybody telling me that France and French are utter shit. 🤣
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
As I said in the post, I have grown to really appreciate the US and have realized that the same things I didn't like in the US exist in other places, as much as people try to convince me it only happens in my country. I also frankly didn't expect the high amount of negative comments towards me, the assumptions made about me without giving me a chance to express myself or who I am. I feel that, for example, Europeans are generally treated with a lot of respect when they are in the US, but we Americans are often treated like idiots in Europe.
franckJPLF@reddit
Well, tbh the US is such an easy target don’t you think? With that much financial/cultural/military power on the world stage it’s understandable that people end up turning against it. You shouldn’t take it personally imho.
Duke_Newcombe@reddit
Easy to say when you are not the "punching bag" target for their comments and behavior, yes? Some folks need to separate the policies of a nation from her people.
truffelmayo@reddit
It’s not that Europeans are respected in the states, but overly romanticised, even fetishised.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
That's a great point! We over-idealize Europe. But what I mean is that we generally aren't going up to Europeans visiting/living in the US and listing reasons we hate their country. Maybe we over-romanticize, as some Europeans do for the US as well, but at least it's positive?
Rasmatakka@reddit
Same. People can trash Germany all day i dont mind at all :)
AngryTrooper09@reddit
You can recognize your country has issues because you have actually experienced them and yet not appreciate that a foreigner who has no idea what they’re talking about bashes it to your face by stereotyping an entire people you are part of
niukbel086@reddit
It also sounds like you are taking things too personal
WNC3184@reddit
Yes it is annoying as an American to hear these things. Fact is that many Americans do suck when it comes to looking outside the box at the world. But, guess what? There is no such thing as a typical American. No one chooses where they are from. Ignorance exists everywhere. It usually comes from the people who have never met those people or been to that place. I am on a journey to be an expat because of my own issues with the US. I do feel that we are an embarrassment to an extent it doesn’t represent 350 million on a whole.
jebadiajabujagyu@reddit
You are obviously a well-meaning and sensitive person. You will do well in life. You can always learn a few put downs if you need, to put people in their place.
ResidentTough8742@reddit
Keep in mind that most people in other countries dream to live in the U.S. could be a bit of jealousy
nosockelf@reddit
My son used to complain about these same sort of slights when he was going to high school in Australia. The truth is when you are the lead dog, every other dog wants to bite your ass. The U.S. is so much the lead dog in the world and there is not a close second. Honestly, the U.S. pretty much takes the top ten spots.
I received these types of comments often too. I appreciated the head's up to not waste much time engaging with the person. Oh, it was not uncommon for the person making some insulting comments to follow up with fan-boying some aspect of American culture...
So of course there is jealousy because the U.S. culture, economy, and rule of law dominate the world.
Dramatic_Turnip_4840@reddit
Americans treating Europa as a songle country. Sigh……
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
And where did I say Europe is one country? I am living in the continent of Europe, I am living in the country of Spain. I discuss this as "American in Europe" because I am talking about my experiences with people from several European countries, and am also speaking to a prevailing attitude in several European countries. And to be quite honest, yes, Europe does have different countries, cultures, languages, etc., but there are a lot more things that are common from one country to the other than you would think.
FallofftheMap@reddit
The more I travel the more I come to accept that humans are more or less the same wherever you go. There are cultural differences, sure, but everywhere has bigotry and stupidity. Every place has people with a chip on their shoulder and an inferiority complex. What has surprised me, is how many parts of the world have normalized these behaviors and made racism and bigotry culturally acceptable. In Asia and Europe I would often hear things that people typically wouldn’t dare say out loud in the U.S. In Latin America the racism is a bit more complex, there’s a lot of envy underneath it. There seems to be less criticism of America but plenty of criticism of Americans. Whereas in Europe it’s more often criticism of America itself.
bestillnow@reddit
Wow. Your post has been very enlightening and heart felt. I appreciate your perspective and experience. Your post will guide me in future interactions with our American neighbours- I’m Canadian and have had some prejudice towards your nation/people but again, your post has resonated with me and shed light on my ignorance-thank you for your courage in expressing your thoughts. Also, I think there might be jealousy toward such a grand nation!!
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Thank you, I really appreciate this!
MrJim911@reddit
American living in Portugal here.
I will certainly attest that ignorant people live in every country. Stupidity is not restricted to specific countries or continents. No border can stop stupidity.
But nothing here has made me appreciate America more. I'm quite content never going back to the US again. The reasons I left are still in full effect. Comments from rude people won't change that. Are there specific things I miss from the states? Sure. But nothing that makes me want to go back. Ever.
Lighthouseamour@reddit
Every country is going to be filled with a lot of different kinds of people. I don’t judge a people. I would have to meet way too many people to have a good sample size. I do judge governments and ours is really bad. The US has done so much shady shit at home and abroad I don’t even have time to describe it. Our police force commit war crimes every day against our own citizens. We have different systems for the wealthy and everyone else. Europeans have more rights than we do. I’m glad you were able to get out. I’m stuck here.
norbi-wan@reddit
So Europe = Spain? To be honest you chose one of the worst countries for this experience.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I never said Europe=Spain. I'm living in the continent of Europe. I'm interacting with people from various European countries as stated in my post. And yes, the continent of Europe has different countries, cultures, languages, etc., but there are certain attitudes and ideas that prevail throughout Europe.
norbi-wan@reddit
I definitely see your point now that you clarified. But I kinda see the POV of the Europeans as well (Ofc I see it, they're my people) . Sometimes it's overwhelming how dependent we are on Americans (see: I write on your native language), and how much content we get etc. It's just too much influence.
I love Americans I think you guys have very good mindset towards life and I have a lot of American friends, the best people in the world, but I don't love your country.
Top_Return_9770@reddit
Spanish here. Long story short: morons are international commodity and would find a way to unsettle you, only if you allow (your Homeland, the shape of your nose, accent, whatever). Don't give a shit about these people's opinions
Don't be ashamed of your country of origin. There are political things that I don't share of USA, other countries or Spain itself , but I don't judge people by their government actions, but by their own individual behaviors.
hodinke@reddit
100% agree, specially as I was raised the same to be respectful and kind to others person, country and culture.
However, Europeans dish out their bad feelings towards everyone and being young means you don’t have the experience and knowledge to make fun back at them immediately. Take pleasure on pushing back. For example, the individual making fun of your accent, I would have begun speaking English as he most likely only speaks Spanish.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
I think that's the core issue right there, I've always tried to respect everyone's country/culture and be as polite as possible, but not everyone is this way.
Bothanwarlord@reddit
A Brit once told me in a bar that he would never visit the USA because it's a shithole. I told him that his teeth would never make it past customs.
exstonerchick12@reddit
American married to a Frenchie living in Mexico who has lived in multiple European countries (including Spain) here. The TLDR of it is that people are resentful that you’re from a country that has mastered world domination (film, music, politics, finance, global language, etc.) and that provides income/opportunity/jobs/ability to pursue “happiness” like no other country on earth.
My husband makes 6 high figures in the US. In France, the same job pays less than half. I’d be resentful of Americans too in other people’s shoes.
I’m surrounded by Mexicans who love ME, but hate America and Americans. Same in every country I’ve lived in. People have general gripes about Americans, some of which is fair, but some which they’re just conditioned to repeat because of ingrained ignorance.
If you are going to live abroad, you have to accept this. I’d have a full head of gray hair if I argued with everyone I met who derided America/Americans. I have several advanced degrees, have articles published in major publications, speak 4 languages, have worked for the Vatican, and I’ve lived in 7 countries. Still no matter where I go people will peg me for being a stupid American.
Jokes on them. It’s their ignorance at work, not mine.
That said, look for the good apples. Not everyone hates Americans. My French spouse being one, and most foreign friends I’ve racked up over the years. Except my Mexican friends, LOL. Most people are good at heart. Take the ignorant losers with a grain of salt and enjoy the living around the big, wide world.
Lars_Fletcher@reddit
Be nice to people around, don’t be ashamed of who you are. /thread
Koo-Vee@reddit
Bubbletalk.
pussyseal@reddit
I love it when people who probably never visited the US say shit about it. It is as imperfect as any other country.
When I met people who were radical about my country, I tried to get their perspectives to understand where this was coming from. I realised that they are just biased by news and social media propaganda. I'm not saying you should dig into that in every single situation, but people may blindly follow someone's agenda and you can widen their perspectives.
Otherwise, tell them that America is the best country on the planet and they should fuck off.
Jacob_Soda@reddit
I lived in Spain for 6 months and I can say that I started to feel a little bit more proud to be an American after I left. I remember somebody from the UK that told me that "America is a terrible country to live in." I remember I met a Canadian in Spain who said the same.
I miss Spain but I think they are more xenophobic than the US.
throw1drinkintheair@reddit
This has happened to me and I took it as an opportunity learn more about their history and culture. So I can dunk on them…
Older countries sure do have a lot of skeletons in their closet.
But also, be proud. Our countrymen have done so much it’s insane.
If those people shitting on the US have ever: Flown in a plane, then rented a car, used their cell phone, to get directions, then posted about on social media…I think you get my point.
Also, if I’d be curious if they support Ukraine or not. A bunch of dumb Americans have sent more aid to Ukraine than Europe. A war being fought on Europe’s doorstep.
We’re not perfect. Neither are they.
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
It is your duty to explain the real US to the people who mean to knock it down a peg. Stand your ground and correct the misconceptions. Still, I agree that some people are more sheltered than Americans. I went to England (cambridge) once and asked how cool is Scotland and was shocked that some adults there have never even been! It's like someone from Virginia never going to Maryland.
Dragon_Flow@reddit
My first impulse during reading your description was to respond to people with "Well, I know who not to call when I need help" - said in a joking way. Or not joking.
You could ask people, "are you going to be hateful to me just because you don't like my country of origin?"
You could say "If you're going to hold my country against me then I guess we can't be friends."
You don't have to defend the US but you do need to be respectful to yourself.
Remember, most of the people harassing you are from countries that are almost as bad as the US.
100LittleButterflies@reddit
From what travel this poorly American has been able to experience, I've learned people are people. Throughout time, throughout location, humans really are just the same in the ways that matter.
And those most critical of themselves are likely to be criticized.
LaComandante@reddit
I have similar experiences as an expat in Brazil. People are either stereotyping me because of my US background or my Central American background (I lived in both countries). It’s exhausting and tiring because you are being reduced to a one dimensional perspective. People don’t really care too much on really getting to know you. All I can say is that I’m sorry you are going through that!
Complaintsdept123@reddit
There are backwards, uneducated people proud to share their ignorance all over the world. I've had the same experiences you've had, and I find the level of ignorance is directly proportional to the level of sharing.
gumercindo1959@reddit
My first take on your long post is that your friends (or is it your BF's friends) are unpleasant and contribute toxicity to the friendship. I wouldn't even call it a true friendship b/c of how they are. I would not give them a pass on that.
Second, Spain has a lot of issues. One of the major ones is racism (no matter how subtle it is). It's there. Keep in mind that they haven't had a civil rights movement and black people represent an extremely small % of the population which means they've kept similar views over the past 40-50 years.
With traveling and life in general, you have to take the good with the bad. US isn't perfect; no country is. What's important is recognizing the positives and negatives and appreciating all of it.
OvidPerl@reddit
I'm an American living in France (also Netherlands, UK, Japan, and will be spending a lot of time in Malta soon). Left the US in 2006.
All told, I've lived in seven EU cities and visited many more and it's been almost 20 years.
I've experienced some of what you're describing, but not much. That being said, I left when I was in my late 30s and am now in my fifties. It's possible that you have younger friends who have a different worldview, different attitudes.
What you're describing sounds a bit extreme. I'm sorry you're dealing with it.
SeveralCoat2316@reddit
Anytime I hear the xenophobia from foreigners, I know it's rooted in deep seated jealousy. Europe is a dying continent and these people are literally dependent on the US to thrive. Don't believe me? Then why do they pay so much attention to our politics? Because we pretty much own them.
Remember that your biggest haters will do anything and everything to bring you down so look at them with pity and appreciate that you come from a country where your voice matters. Your opinion matters. And what you value matters.
chicagonights18@reddit
“I think, like many Americans, I bought into this idea that Europeans are so educated, so well-mannered, so “worldly” that I would look dumb next to them.”
I’m sorry but this is wild. I don’t know a single person who thinks Europeans are better, more educated, well mannered or “more worldly” 😭😭.
To me it sounds like you live your life caring too much about what other people think as well as not leaving the comment sections of social media.
Also, why do you agree with them when they bash the your country? That only reinforces their behavior and basically confirms to them that what they’re saying is correct. This is also part of the problem.
My experience of living abroad was very different. I found that Europeans were fascinated by the US as well as envious that I got to live and work there. Virtually every European said they wish they could live/work in either Chicago, LA, or NYC.
I’ve found that the Europeans that are the most nasty about US citizens, are just jealous and envious. They want to put you down to make themselves feel better and when you agree with them, it reinforces that behavior.
At the end of the day, almost every European would jump at the opportunity to move to the U.S. and work. The problem is they can’t and they hate that they can’t. Being able to work in the USA is incredibly difficult, it’s not like us Americans who can just move to Europe and work and live. They don’t have that opportunity in the U.S.
So moral of the story is stop giving a flying fuck about what people think. Let them hate. Let them be miserable. That’s on them :)
Tabitheriel@reddit
I live in Germany now. I’ve come to appreciate the best of both countries. I’ve seldom encountered „Anti- Americanism“. That being said, there are idiots in every country on Earth. Avoid them if you can.
Impossible_Humor_443@reddit
First, thank you for the post. I think you managed to capture the situation perfectly. I went to Spain (2000) just after living in Japan for two years and stayed 6 months while studying Spanish. My school provided a flat where I lived with 5 other roommates who were Austrian German, Dutch, and myself an American. I speak Japanese and Spanish I’ve traveled, etc but every day it was the same thing with any conversation with my flatmates just as OP described. Americans are stupid, don’t know geography, are ignorant, fat imbeciles, confuse Australia and Austria etc. I didn’t take it laying down, and finally said to my German friends look I know all Germans aren’t Nazis just bc of WWII, and neither are all Americans ignorant so enough of the “stupid Americans “ comments. They didn’t like the Nazi reference and said so, “of course all Germans aren’t Nazis”, and the comments continued. We sparred every day me defending myself from this anti-American rhetoric in my own flat was draining. I can imagine after two years it’s getting harder to deal with especially from people you consider friends and family. Give no space for ignorance and bigotry or it only gets worse as you have seen. Be proud of yourself and your ability to live and work in another country. Keep fighting, best of luck.
Imaginary_Concept_10@reddit
I hear you loud and clear. I’m from Hungary and my husband is American. We live in the states and visit Europe as often as possible.
I have to say, many Europeans are proud of their heritage and culture and insecure about their financial situation at the same time. Frankly, we will never make as much money as those peers in America because we simply don’t work that much and that hard. And we don’t want to adapt that lifestyle. Nevertheless, Europeans like to think of themselves as rich people – only most of them are broke.
We’re rich in the sense that we have a lot of history (lol) and culture and nice clothes and sense of fashion and seasides and we speak languages and know five different words for a croissant in Italian; but still we don’t have money. We wish we were wealthy but we’re not. We don’t know how to make a lot of money. Our taxes are crazy high. We are not entrepreneurs. We don’t think outside of the box or have a dream career.
We work to live nicely. We love our drink good wine and talk endlessly, we are philosophers and academics…
I think it’s the American spirit that many Europeans envy: their desire to succeed, to make a difference, to create something special, to be super wealthy.
Whoever looks down on you because you’re from the US, is probably jealous of you. No joke.
deepriver8@reddit
This is filled with wisdom. I also think their open hatred is rooted in envy. They focus on the worst traits of America and Americans (very easy to do) and ignore the virtues.
videki_man@reddit
Fellow Hungarian here living in the UK. When we're home, perhaps the most irritating thing is when people try to suggest how smart and special we are, and how dumb Westerners (especially Americans) are compared to us. They laugh at Americans for not being able to find the US on the map, while I'm fairly sure at least the same proportion of people wouldn't find Hungary either.
We're not better in any regard.
DoomChicken69@reddit
As an expat (American currently living in the UK), this comment is spot-on. Salaries in the US and most of Western Europe were similar until the 2008/9 financial crisis. The US recovered much faster, and salaries went up by a lot, while Western Europe has not kept up with inflation and most people are worse off (after adjusting for inflation) than they were before the financial crisis, even 16+ years later.
The same tech company with offices in London and NYC will pay someone in NYC more than double what they will pay the Londoner. Europeans know this, and they're jealous. Moving to the US is difficult, and the lifestyle is too work-focused for most Europeans, so they channel that jealousy into looking down on the US.
GingerSuperPower@reddit
As a “European” I’m also pretty annoyed at people thinking Europe is a country. So generally whenever I see someone complain that Europeans are X or Y or Z, I just think: yeah. Europeans don’t exist.
DoomChicken69@reddit
You could also argue that the US is just states and shouldn't be referred to as a whole (size-wise the US is on par with Europe). Someone from Alabama may have nothing in common with someone from Alaska or Hawaii.
ElectrocutedNeurons@reddit
It's simply copium. The entire continent of Europe is still stuck in the 1700s when they were the colonizers of the world. Then the rest of the world got ahead of them, and they never stopped coping since.
_Forest_Bather@reddit
Very interesting perspective. All the traits you listed about languages and food and history and work-life balance are what I admire about Europeans. My blind spot what the hard work American spirit. It’s doesn’t even occur to me.
gremlinguy@reddit
Very well put. This is my experience as well
wysiwygot@reddit
There are ignorant assholes everywhere. There are also kind and generous people everywhere
europanya@reddit
I hosted an artist (young person) from Spain once who was genuinely surprised average Americans don’t act like the Housewives of OC. She’d never been outside of Spain before and had a lot of prefabricated opinions about Americans based on reality TV. If that’s Europe’s barometer I can see why many hate us. Conversely, while traveling Europe (and Asia) as a tourist, I find most people we encounter are genuinely friendly and/or curious about our American-ness and like to ask polite questions. As we travel independently using local transport, and not come bumbling out of a bus, they really do want to know sometimes why we’ve come to visit and are typically charmed and/or helpful.
deepriver8@reddit
I have lived in Europe for decades and have encountered a lot of the open anti-Americanism you describe (I can't even imagine what they say about us behind our backs - LOL). I put it down to snobbery, ignorance, and mostly bad manners. I also believe there is an element of very real jealousy, which is why some of them have poor impulse control and can't keep their opinions about us to themselves.
As a MAGA conservative I don't argue with these people, or show my cards. I self-censor to make my life so much more peaceful.
I have definitely come to appreciate the American people during my time living over here. I love living in Europe and appreciate the unique things about it, but I miss the American people - A LOT. In the main we have the ability to see a person as an individual first, and not as a member of a larger group, which is why in the U.S., friendships that cross age/culture/social class barriers are not at all unusual.
cafn8me24@reddit
As someone who lived in Germany briefly as a child and who wants to retire in France, I appreciate your post. I know that there are going to be pros and cons when I leave the us at some point.
No country or city is perfect by any means. You just have to think about what is most important to you and find a place that aligns with that.
sziahalo@reddit
I live in Valencia (for six years now) and have never once experienced what you described. But then I remembered you’re in Madrid, which is a pretty snobby place toward outsiders (at least compared to most other Spanish cities). That may be part of the problem.
Rasmatakka@reddit
You speak spanish? To me it seems especially US immigrants are in denial about Valencia. Just leaving the city rn (been here on and off for 8 years) and people are so fed up with US citizens/people from Uk and yes, Nortern Europeans, too. You can literally feel it in the street.
freezingazzoff@reddit
I live in Vlc too and I have had the same experience as the OP. Lucky you!
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
Madrid, for being the biggest city in Spain with a sizeable international community, is more closed-minded than one would expect. I have always felt that Valencians were a bit more open and I always got along very well with people from there. Barcelona is a bit of a mixed bag, but I would say they tend to be a bit more outsider-hating there as well.
bittersweetlemonade@reddit
I've lived in Barcelona a couple of months- the people there are generally very closeminded. However there's a big community of expats that is quite welcoming (if you find the right people ofc) In Barcelona I've been denied service a couple of times, even though I spoke Spanish and some Catalan.
When I went to Valencia for 2 weeks, it felt like a burden had been lifted. Felt more at ease there. As well Sevilla was kinder to me than Barcelona...
EveningInfinity@reddit
In Europe, I've usually been surprised by what _positive_ associations people have with Americans. It may be self-selecting: these are the Europeans who are interested in talking to me. ;)
Luvs2Spooge42069@reddit
Many western Europeans are smug, disrespectful shitheels. I used to really look up to them, so it was a bit of a rude awakening to find out how little some of these people think of Americans. In general I still don’t dislike them at all but it gets very tiring trying to make friends with people who often seem to look down on you over stereotypes or some stupid meme they saw. For what it’s worth I experience a lot less of this stuff in eastern europe, turkey, and really almost anyone outside of western Europe.
jawngoodman@reddit
Self righteous Europeans often forget they created America and it done took over the world lol.
Plenty of dumb mother fuckers over here that’s why i love seeing their slow descent into populism. Really shows they’re pretty much just as bad , if not, worse than Americans. Because they’ve had significantly more time to figure shit out
Just sucks America is mostly about wealth generation and has no compassion for it’s own citizens.
thebolts@reddit
Change friends. But also don’t expect Americans to get a pass just because you discovered the US isn’t as bad as you first thought. America is a superpower and made terrible decisions affecting nearly every part of the globe. Europe too had its time when it was a superpower and they too have baggage. Stuff they haven’t bothered addressing properly like racism and colonialism.
Americans also tend to be super polite and friendly to people they’ve just met when Europeans tend to be more reserved and in some cultures openly sarcastic. It’s just a different way of approaching people. Either assimilate and borrow the locals way of communicating or stay true to yourself. Both options are ok. But as some have said try punching back and see if it makes you feel better.
newbsd@reddit
Sounds like r/Europe
Greyzer@reddit
More like r/2westerneurope4u
Birbattitude@reddit
Yes, but at least they acknowledge the reality by mocking the dynamic. Scratch an ameriphobe and you get someone who is profoundly conflicted.
alittledanger@reddit
I have to say they have toned down their anti-Americanism since the Ukraine war started.
chiree@reddit
Yeah, instead of now hating on individual people because they just so happened to be born in the US, they hate on individual people that just so happened to have been born in Russia.
Not really the brightest bunch over there.
RexManning1@reddit
I’ve been gone from the US for years and I think it’s even worse than when I left so I don’t get the whole absence makes the heart grow fonder aspect. There wasn’t any secret that bigotry towards immigrants has been rampant in Europe. You must have missed that before you moved. Find some better people to hang out with just as you would have if you were getting the same bigoted comments from Americans in the US.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
There are problems in the US, yes, but every country has its problems. I think one thing that stands out to me comparing Europe vs. the US is that Europe is much more homogenous and I do miss the diversity of the US, that being "American" really is a broad concept as we all come from different backgrounds and ways of life. Here, even in big cities, there is more pressure to conform or to act like everybody else that you don't see quite as much in the US. I do agree though, I need to find some more open-minded people, lol.
sovietbarbie@reddit
yes, this problem you have will 90% disappear when you find better people to hang out with.
i dont gaf about being from the us and roll my eyes at a lot of these types of conversations because they’re just boring and unoriginal
Scipio555@reddit
I honestly think, that above all things, you are surrounded by super toxic people who abuse each other and bring other people down in the name of being “funny”.
I feel really sorry for your experience because it really shouldn’t be like that. There are so many nice Spaniards who would never be rude or talk you down the way you describe, but it seems the company you are holding, including your BF friends, is not a company you should be hanging out with.
Be surrounded with people who you can be proudly and joyfully who you are, celebrate your identity and not be ashamed for it.
cinkapanna@reddit
Yes, passive aggressiveness is a feature in many parts of Europe. And many people believe they "know" the US based on movies, websites, etc., and hating the US has become a trend in Europe. However, when I first moved to the US as an expat, I came across the same for a couple of occasions. Used to work in an office building and some guys from a neighboring office (a different business) came over and started to make fun of my accent, etc. It was frightening because I was alone in the office right before Christmas, a woman with four or five big and loud men. Finally they left. I guess I looked vulnerable, young and quiet, not a hint of assertiveness at that time. Later I came across silly jokes, but not this level of intimidation. But I heard many ugly stories from nonwhite expats / immigrants.
I don't know, it worked for me to not let stupid comments slip and tell the person that it was disrespectful or annoying.
CaptainFungiNails@reddit
I am not American but I hahe noticed a lot of disdain against y'all in France. Tbh, I think it is just jalousy. Europe is pretty decadent lately and instead of improving, it just blames it on immigrants.
Enough-Necessary-259@reddit
The problem is that those European countries stop invading nations long time ago. The times of Leopold and other characters decimating the African continent are going down. Whereas US business model is control and invasion. So maybe that is where all those feelings from outsiders are coming.
GhanaGirlUK99@reddit
What?
badlydrawngalgo@reddit
Tribalism is part of the human condition. It's our gang vs your gang, village vs village when you're a child, growing to city vs city, region vs region, all the way up to country and continent. You can read it here on this thread, see it writ large in this group, see it and hear it everyday in most places irl and I'm the media. It's corrosive. Anyone who doesn't realise that there's a world of difference between extreme generalisations and prejudice and individual people is simultaneously ignorant, rude and (potentially) dangerous.
WeekendJen@reddit
I havent had people being straight up dheads to me like you have, but i have had a hard time explaining to some people that "americans" can't really be generalized because the country is very much less homogenous than countries in europe. Yes i know there are immigrants in europe, but the scale and ubiquity of people from pretty much any race/ ethnicity/ etc and whatever pales to the US, especially in the most populated parts of the states.
nadmaximus@reddit
I'm an American living in France for 9 years now and I've never gotten any of that. But its very rare for anybody to talk to me like that in any context. I'm a big, tall, vaguely menacing looking middle-aged white dude. People don't generally "talk shit" to me in person, other than friendly banter. When I was young and small, I used to imagine all the things I would do to bullies after I was an adult...but they just vanished.
I say this not to humble-brag about being tough (which I am definitely not) but to suggest that it may have more to do with talking shit than the shit itself that is being said. If people feel comfortable saying that stuff, in your presence and knowing that you are American, they are perhaps just using that as the source for their shit. If you weren't American, it would be something else.
Perhaps it only has a little bit to do with geopolitics and a lot to do with most people everywhere being insecure, closed-minded and a bit shit.
notmycarrott@reddit
The problem with Americans is when people insult them they just take it !! Other countries not so much !! There are a lot of shitty things about European countries and the people and there are a lot of lovely things about them and as the same in USA . People never been to USA obviously not very bright either , they keep saying I’ll never want to go there but they watch and listen to American tv movies and music and use American social media etc etc .. I love USA and
I live in Canada and the amount of negative comment I heard in Europe are astonishing and they always said Canada like USA but better and I always come back yes but a lot better than Europe because to us you Europe just a big Disneyland .. a play ground but nothing else and that’s enough to shut their mouths . You want to be rude and ignorant so be ready to receive one too and even I’m not American I get angry when I heard some ignorant comments about them
leadsepelin@reddit
I think every country has at least 2 layers of people. The ones that emigrated and the ones that didnt. The ones that didnt, tend to be pretty closed minded and ingnorant, doesnt matter the country they are from. The thing is that with Americans is easier to meet the ignorant ones because they have the money to travel the world, while in Spain they normally cant. But believe me in the Netherlands, I have met plenty of Dutch that never lived in any other country but their own, and I have seen them argue with me or with other foreigners about our own countries without having a fucking clue what they are talking about
CybridCat@reddit
I’m a dual citizen between a european country and the u.s. — i moved to the u.s. and ppl are always talking trash when i visit back home. i think they see what’s on tv (gun violence, trump etc) and think that’s every american, whereas the u.s. is insanely different culturally depending on where you are located. I think also cuz the u.s. is a super power that influences european cultures a lot people feel like they’re taking a shot at “the man” (not untrue) but actually have no ideal what americans are like or what it’s like to live here
personally i find where i live in the us to be way more progressive and in line with my values than where i lived in europe.. im often kinda shocked at casual sexism/racism when i go back to visit, but since i don’t live there anymore its hard to know if my perception is accurate or not
anyway id say give them shit right back (in a playful nice way but still!!)
Wistful-zebra@reddit
Yes, there are xenophobic, rude people everywhere. I’ve experienced it from time to time as a British person living elsewhere in Europe, but it’s usually either a joke or the person just being an idiot. I try not to take it personally anymore. The little comments or digs are quite common in Europe, honestly I’ve heard the same in the US when my US friends make digs about people from the south or the Midwest, or Kentucky. I used to hear it all the time when I lived in the US.
From your story though, I really struggle to believe those people would speak to you like that in a bar when you introduced yourself. Either you were super unlucky or this story is embellished a bit.
I think you’ve let this get to you too much and now everything is taken very personally.
napalmtree13@reddit
It comes from a place of insecurity. Once you realize that, it gets easier to deal with. Happy people who are secure in their own identity don’t waste so much of their time thinking about how much they hate a group of people. Especially a group of people they don’t actually know very well. Deep down, they likely feel insecure about the shortcomings of their own country and are projecting onto you and the U.S.
I personally don’t really get that in Germany, but that may be because people assume I’m also German until I speak. I think this short circuits their brains to where the usual insults and slights can’t come out, because their subconscious is still making sense of the fact that I wasn’t what they assumed. People also usually first assume I’m British, Australian or (oddly enough, as I’m tiny) Dutch.
The few times this has happened, I ask them point blank why they feel comfortable saying that to me. I remain polite while still questioning them until they apologize or back down. They don’t want to be friends after that, of course, but that’s fine with me; I don’t want to be friends with people who sound like the comment section on a TikTok video.
I’ve also just told them point blank they’re being rude and walked away. I realize that’s harder to do at work, of course. But then again…service expectations are different in Europe. So maybe you can get away with it.
bzngabazooka@reddit
As an American who has lived(and currently living) in Spain for 6 years, welcome to learning that in this big world people are people no matter the culture or race. The hypocrisy, contradictions and ego is all there, pointing fingers and then blindly not having any sort of self reflection at how much more similar we all are than what we all like to admit.
And you will get people that are so stubborn(on both sides, I have also lived on the US for a long time), that even though you have experience living two cultures you will always be “wrong”, and their limited worldview is just the “truth” even though they never have stepped out of their town in their lives.
And you just shrug and move on, because arguing about it is like hitting yourself with a brick wall. Let them be in their delusions. But experience will always be king.
gremlinguy@reddit
America is the shit. It's imperfect, but so is every country. I already loved my country when I left it, but I am practically George Washington nowadays.
I also live in Spain and have experienced everything you said. I have, however, also experienced the opposite. There are quite a few Spaniards who are embarrassed about their country and romanticize the US. I have learned a balance. I can righteously defend the US easily when I need to, express humility when people talk like it's heaven, and the same with my new home, Spain.
I've heard it ALL. From "why are your houses made of wood?" to "Why do Americans only drive automatics?" I now have had enough time that I have a thoughtful response for all of it.
My first job in Spain was as a travelling machine mechanic, so I spoke with blue-collar Spaniards all over the country, and I only twice had my nationality correctly guessed. I am tall and blond, and almost always I got German or British, sometimes Scandi. One of the correct guesses was from a Dominican guy who knew lots of Americans. One was a cashier in Carrefour. My Spanish is not perfect, but I get by. Just learning Spanish with ceceo has gotten me a lot of compliments here.
Now I have a daughter with dual nationality, and I am doing my best to imbue her with pride for both places.
If you ever need to vent to someone who gets it, DM me. I've met up with several Americans in person here in Spain via reddit.
John198777@reddit
I live in France and everyone is nice to Americans but there is a hatred for US politics and this sometimes seeps out in conversations with people.
gringosean@reddit
You are officially an ordained expat! Welcome to the club.
david8840@reddit
Xenophobia is everywhere. Be glad that these idiots had the decency to say it to your face instead of doing something behind your back.
The_whimsical1@reddit
Get over it. I am a proud patriotic American WASP who lives mostly in Europe. Countries go through high and low periods. (I remember France in the seventies, the UK in the eighties, the Balkans when they were communist). The US was riding high for a long time. We then got cocky and now we’re dipping. We may come back soon or we may face a prolonged period of Trumpist stupidity but either way we will come back. When people say stupid things you should count yet with the positives and don’t hesitate to give as good as you’re getting. It’s called banter.
crosscourt-fh@reddit
TL;DR
frankieche@reddit
You’ve experience the inferiority complex that Europoors have.
yet41@reddit
I’m an American living in Germany and I get plenty of stupid remarks. People have said they didn’t know Americans can be introverted until they met me. People have asked why my teeth aren’t blazing white like celebrities’. I’ve had people ask why (not if) I wear shoes to bed. I’ve had two people (both Spaniards coincidentally) go off on me unprompted about how terrible American pizza is. Just weird stuff like that is surprisingly normal out here.
I expected Europeans to be kind of “enlightened” based on those I met in the US. But in retrospect, they were highly educated and skilled, and were an unrepresentative sample of typical Europeans.
In your case, your friend group sounds awful tbh. You might try throwing it back at them, or just stop hanging out with them. Life is too short to spend time with insufferable people.
FR-DE-ES@reddit
Having been living in Europe for the last 2 decades (8 countries, Spain is my winter home the last 9 years), my observation about natives' attitude towards America is universal, much like what youhad described. If asked, I always say I am Californian. Europeans seem to be fond of California, they would then start talking about travel (interest in visiting, or past trips to California), I have yet to run into any European who has negative opinion about California. BTW, German/French/Brits/Italian are also ridiculed outside their countries (I am current & former resident of these 4 countries)
ith228@reddit
Same experience down to a T. EVERY time I make it a point to ask “have you ever been to the US?” to which they inevitably respond with a resounding no. Like, usually I’m Spaniards’ first point of contact with an actual American in their real lives, since their entire impression is generate from media and tourism.
BagApprehensive1412@reddit
I empathize with you 100%. When I was in high school and early college I thought most countries were better than the US in a lot of ways. After living in Spain for two years, I realized it's a lot more nuanced than that. Spain and many European countries still have many things about them that I appreciate and value. But there are also many things that are not good. It's simply not so black and white. Especially by the end of my two years in Spain, the constant ragging on Americans started bothering me more and more because it was just effing rude. You're right. Most people would not meet someone from x country and then immediately tell them all the things about that country that they hate. Also, the hypocrisy of people who would say these things while using their iPhone, drinking Coke a cola, quoting How I Met Your Mother and posting on instagram would drive me nuts. I still believe the US has many, many things wrong with it that make me want to live in a different country, especially if I'll eventually be raising kids (level of safety being one of the highest factors), but it would be ignorant of me to dismiss everything about the whole country entirely. I also think it's not always which country is necessarily "better" or "worse" but which one fits your lifestyle the best.
Kingston31470@reddit
I hear you. I am French and I had the reverse experience.
I was very critical of France and French people's mentality when I was there. Then when I started traveling abroad (living in the US, then UK...) I saw that it was not better over there and sometimes started taking a more defensive stance (it is usually OK for people to criticize their own countries but we would not want foreigners to do the same).
The take away for me is that the average Joe is dumb in every country. All of the cliches are fun but should not be taken seriously. And it is often misleading to idealize certain countries/people. Grass is not always greener and all that.
Recently I found myself complaining about the rise of conservatism in the US and we were talking a lot about that with my wife during holidays there earlier this year. But is it better in Europe? We have far right and populist parties on the rise...
Alert-Guarantee6730@reddit
I grew up (upper) middle class in a Western European country and for some time in the 90s/early 00s the US really were this mystical land of unlimited opportunity, freedom and adventure. Families who could afford it went on vacation to the US, people wanted to do their studies there, did exchange years at US high schools, emulated the consumerism etc. Nowadays? I don't know anyone who still views the US as aspirational in that way, if anything it's considered tacky if you still do. Surely I don't need to point out why this has changed in the past \~10 to 15 years. Welcome to the immigrant experience.
1Angel17@reddit
American currently living in Luxembourg and have also lived in Italy, Belgium & Germany.
I completely understand what you’re saying and have experienced it myself, BUT why do you care what other people think of you? A long time ago I decided that unless someone is positively and/or financially contributing to my life, their opinion really means nothing to me.
Maybe it’s because I’ve experienced this from other Americans but in a different way. Likely because I’ve always had an IDGAF attitude but mostly because I refuse to let someone else’s negativity have any impact on MY happiness and lifestyle. I had a German coworker who would talk up and down about how she could never live in the US and the food is so bad, the culture so bad blablabla but as soon as a work opportunity came up for her to go to the US was presented she was the first person to go! And btw it was miserable while she was there, she was obsessed with buying 5+ pair of these Nike tennis shoes making us go to every fucking foot locker in the city we were visiting, talked shit about being so sick from the food but when would go to Walmart and stock up on chips, sodas & Oreos (literally saw her grocery bags, we all had to share a rental car), complained that the hotel glasses were not clean enough (mind you, we had kitchenettes in our hotel rooms so if she wasn’t happy she could’ve cleaned it herself instead of complaining every day), it was miserable and so ironic. Oh, and she was acting as if she had never seen or been on a toll road before because “we don’t have these in Germany” but a few countries down you definitely have them in Spain. After that trip I said I would never travel with her again, and as soon as the next trip took place, guess who was also the first to sign up and go? All that to say, people love to talk a lot of shit, but when it comes down to it, so many of them are talking out of their asses, it’s hilarious to me.
Even in the Luxembourg subreddit someone made a post asking what other Americans miss about the US, and one of the comments put something about how shallow we were because we miss capitalism (referring to the shopping and having stores open), and I thought that was so funny because every Sunday if I go to the grocery store it’s PACKED! And every shopping Sunday they have here (which isn’t a lot), it’s also PACKED. So they like it too, or else the stores would be empty and wouldn’t open if it wasn’t profitable, but they sure do talk a lot of shit.
Anyway, don’t take it personally, let them live in their ignorant little bubbles, remember you were once there too until you moved. Maybe they will also move and experience something new but likely they won’t, and probably can’t afford to anyway, so if talking shit is all they have, who cares.
coldlightofday@reddit
Shit, France is full of toll roads and it’s right next door to Germany. I’ve only visited Luxembourg and mostly just driving through but it always strikes me a kind of an homage to capitalism. Bourgeois stores, upper class cars, duty-free shops…
1Angel17@reddit
Exactly!
enkidulives@reddit
Unfortunately that's the reality of life. But I'm sorry that people feel the need to take their anger or displeasure with the US out on you. As humans we tend to stereotype others and then dump all of our presumptions onto the first person that we assume fits that stereotype.
What I have found is that foreigners in another country tend to be extremely rude and arrogant. I've met fellow countrymen around the world who have all fit the mold of rude and arrogant... Simply because they're not on home soil they think they are superior to not only the locals but also other foreigners. By the way if you seem to be having negative interactions more frequently with a specific group of people (eg. British) don't approach them. From my own experience I've had an overwhelming number of negative interactions with Brits in Europe with respect to other people.
ParadisHeights@reddit
Honestly a lot of people would move to the USA if they could. A lot of them are probably just jealous and subconsciously tricking themselves into thinking they hate America, because they ain’t America…if you know what I mean.
I get that with living in London a lot. People don’t want to be inferior so talk down on London but the house prices are high for a reason chaps.
And lastly, we all poke fun of other peoples countries here in Europe. The French are weird and give up at the first sight of battle, the Germans are efficient robot like humans, the Italians are full of themselves and their food and can’t decide what side they’re on.
Best-Skin5977@reddit
I just wanted to support you and say that when I first came to the States on a business trip I literally cried the tears of joy as its been my lifelong dream to visit.
Purple-Equivalent-44@reddit
Americans are generally kind people. I read once that we smile so much because it was a universal way of saying hi in a country full of immigrants where often many people did not speak the same language. It is really refreshing to hear someone enjoy what we have to offer instead of insult it to the high heavens. I am leaving for European life soon, but not because I hate my home in the USA!
I hope you had a great time on your trip!
Best-Skin5977@reddit
Oh I did thank you very much! I was absolutely fascinated with nature (washington state), the out of movies downtown architecture, and not gonna lie, those enormous CARS and ROADS and FLAGS! Wish you all the best :)
Responsible-Tone-471@reddit
I understand you 100%, OP. I’d like to add that most of the Europeans saying the dumbest shit about the US are (surprise surprise) the ones who never set foot there
ChetoChompipe@reddit
Latin American living in Germany. You can’t imagine the amount of times I’ve had to hear stupid things about my country even though Germans have never stepped in my country once. Even the police have been racists towards me in 2 occasions. Once after coming to Germany from home the police asked me if there’s a jail in my country. The second time I was at the police because I got scammed. I have a German name and passport and look German but I’m from Latin America. The police commented: did you parents do vacations there? Implying that in my passport my birth place wasn’t Germany because my parents where on vacation when I was born. So yeah and Spanish are also very racist. Don’t romanticize Europe. There are many good things and there are many good people but they are so many a holes even in Europe.
jazzyjeffla@reddit
Yes yes yes. Everything you wrote down has happened to me and will continue to happen. You have to turn it around on to people and make them understand that what they see in the media is propaganda. Everything that they see about the states is only .1% of the realities of being American. I love to turn it around on people.
Like someone said to me, “OMG America is so dangerous and there’s so much violence!” And I replied “oh yeah we’ve got our issues but I saw the other day on the news about the gun violence in XYZ place” and then a conversation started about insecurity in the place I’m living. I think they helps them realize that it’s not only a US problem but it happens everywhere!!!! I’m not kidding there are gun violence everywhere and Spain has a big problem now with cartels and human traffickers using violence. You just don’t hear about it.
Yes we do have our problems but it nobody’s job to reticule us but ourselves.
Your group of friends are either messing with you or are just POS.
I’m an American who lived abroad for now 9 years. I’ve unfortunately have been in your shoes. Don’t let people walk all over you. Make them feel dumb. Educate yourself about world news and use it to open peoples eyes. It’s the only way. Btw don’t talk to Brits on holiday cause they speak English I did the same and was SHOCKED by how they act. Definitely have their nose up in the air and think they’re better than everyone else. Idc idc idc. Nobody liked them in Spain lol.
Responsible-Tone-471@reddit
Ditch your boyfriend’s friends, they sound like jackasses
coldlightofday@reddit
People are people, everywhere. There are just as many ignorant Europeans as there are Americans. On the flip side, there are also open minded, generous, kind Europeans as there are Americans.
Xenophobia is kind of prominent in Europe in a way that I think is quite different from the US. As Americans, we are a mesh of many cultures. We have xenophobia but it’s usually fearful, ignorant and right-wing politically minded people. I think casual xenophobia is more culturally accepted in Europe. I think there is a fear of individual European countries losing their identities.
American culture is a dominant western culture that is pervasive throughout Europe. You can’t really escape American music, movies/tv or English language. So I think there is a knee jerk defensiveness against the dominant culture.
Lastly, you sound like you are probably young and hang out with young people. I think there is a maturity issue at play here and it’s typical young people acting like assholes thinking that it makes them look cool, when it just makes them look like assholes. Many people do tend to outgrow that with age.
Far_Conclusion9076@reddit
European here felt the same aggressive from other europeans in SEVERAL other countries here. We are indeed very xenophobic even amongst ourselves. Instead of appreciating diversity we came to hate it. I dislike europeans because of this lack of tolerance very much.
Quiet_Worker@reddit
America is not perfect by any means but a lot of Europeans take for granted the security umbrella they are afforded by America. I wouldn’t take what they say so personally. They are simply ignorant in a similar way to how they view Americans and “others”.
Extension-Dog-2038@reddit
Americans are obnoxious. Can’t really tolerate them. Sorry not sorry
MadisonActivist@reddit
I just find it humorous how people rag on Americans about issues with learning other languages but then savage them when trying or practicing...I hate that.
FlipsMontague@reddit
Just remember what we say about Canadians
Original-Opportunity@reddit
I’m a native Spanish speaker from the U.S.
If you are in Spain, speaking English, the “you” is really pointed, I think. “Why do you use Fahrenheit? Why do you think that’s better? Why do you shoot up school kids?”
There’s a time for levity. I will personally field all McDonald’s jokes because I love fast food. I smuggle ketchup packets around. I don’t care. I am McLovin whatever I can McLove in any country. And no, I’m not obese or unhealthy. It’s my favored treat.
It helps to understand the historical references locals have. The U.S. was wildly unpopular after 2005 (?) train bombings. And, like, fair! Totally fair.
20 years later, people who were kids then have Big Opinions that I address selectively. The American ignorance trope? Fair game. Jokes about school shooters? No. “I’m sorry, I know the laws are cray, but it’s not funny to me to joke about kids dying, anywhere.”
max1030thurs@reddit
I am empathetic to your experience, although I am a bit envious of you in Spain, I spent two months this past year and thoroughly enjoyed almost all of it, I found the people so warm and welcoming, but I was a tourist and not living.
I have been on a French island for the past two years, the French treat Americans absolute horribly. My first two years as an expat has made me realize I do not want the America life again, but i definitely do not want to be in a French country either.
Seeking a new home, open to suggestions, I need warmth and sunshine...
Creative-Road-5293@reddit
"Before moving to Spain, I really thought the US was one of the worst countries in the world. "
That's incredibly, incredibly ignorant/stupid. I think people probably pick up on this when interacting with you.
MissZissou@reddit
I can empathize and relate! Its a common expat/immigrant complaint I fear. Its not the only reason Im moving back but its certainly worn me down and contributed to it
Stock_Distance2663@reddit
Yeah ok, they r morons, what age group are they?
Suitable-Chef-112@reddit
I completely understand what you mean! It annoys the shit out of me to deal with the European arrogance and ignorance in regards to the US.
My friend (also European immigrant living in the US) calls it the 'colonizer mentality of alleged superiority' that resurfaces every so often. Maybe that's a tad dramatic, but a refreshing take that comes to mind in those instances.
I'm German (just for context) living in the US with my US partner.
Last time I visited Berlin I had a friend talking about the rampant racism in the US (agreed) and then later on, that same friend was surprised about someone being from the US, because they don't "look American". As in, they are not white, jfc. The massive blind spot is just one example of the many encounters that make me want to shake people when I'm visiting back home.
Hang in there, I have no good advice but total empathy. Hopefully you find people to hang out with that don't treat you shitty and make you feel bad about yourself. That's a very low bar to begin with. Al carajo con estos imbéciles!
woodenshipss@reddit
I Iearned this lesson decades ago, and realized a lot of Europeans have insecurities and resentments that they project onto Americans. I finally broke the self-flagellating habit when I realized what you recently have: Europeans are as stupid and ignorant, and also as smart and sophisticated, as people in just about any part of the world. America HAS BEEN the best country on earth for nearly a century by any number of measures. Europe, while an incredible place, has had to rely on the US for far more than they are willing to admit to themselves, and they cope with it by taking it out on people like you. Then you get resentful and self-hating and the world’s suddenly an unnecessarily worse place.
In short, they aren’t as cool as they think they are. But they’re used to getting away with acting superior bc Americans do the self-hating thing around them. Stop doing that. You come from one of the greatest countries the world has ever seen. Be proud of that. If you need to, bone up on all of the political, cultural, monetary, scientific, militaristic, educational and entrepreneurial output Europe has relied upon from the US since the early 20th century. Conversely, learn about Spain and Europe’s myriad faults and problems.
Then, when you see them sliding into their smug attitude, push back. You will find it’s a house of cards and you will get great relief and satisfaction in seeing for yourself that this whole dynamic is a baseless charade that dissipates when one of the players (you) decides to stop playing.
They usually have no idea how to handle a calmly confident and aware American who refuses to take their bait.
RavedaPutaria@reddit (OP)
This is a great mindset! I think as an immigrant you go through certain phases, and you have to go through the ugly stuff to really feel self-assured and confident, no matter where you're from.
OutsideWishbone7@reddit
Ffs sake what a long rant. It really reads like you lived a completely sheltered life and are way over sensitive. Is it not obvious that: - people in other countries will say they dislike your country, Americans do it, Europeans do it, Asians do it etc etc. Does it mean they really do? - every country stereotypes other countries. You stereotyped Europe, can you not see how hypocritical you are?
No_Analysis_6204@reddit
yes, humans suck; it’s just that european humans have social welfare programs of varying degrees & they know we americans do not. that may make them healthy & well fed, but it doesn’t boost awareness or intelligence.
your acquaintances, however, seem like a particular awful bunch of people. you would probably be happier if you sought out people who aren’t assholes.
doublenostril@reddit
I’m really sorry, OP. 🙁 It sounds miserable. I’m an American, and I was volunteering in East Africa during the U.S. invasion of Iraq. My coworker and I went on a weekend trip and ran into an Israeli couple at the hostel. They were delighted to meet us, asked us over for drinks. They said, “You’re the only people the world hates more than us right now!”
It’s an unfortunate byproduct of being a citizen of a very powerful country. The people who insult you, personally, are small-minded bullies who, like many bullies, are convinced that they’re punching upwards. I agree with the other comments that you should find better company than these idiots. Spain has polite people too. They may be humble people, but as you speak Spanish there shouldn’t be a huge communication barrier. Go spend your time with them; the jerks don’t deserve your attention.
FantasticalRose@reddit
I know many people who feel similarly to how you did before you left for europe. Nothing makes me laugh harder. Clearly they've never lived there for more than a few months at best.
If I have another person tries to tell me how much better "quality of life'/ healthcare/ community is in 'Europe' I won't be able to hold back my eye roll.
AngryTrooper09@reddit
Not American but half Canadian and half European. I have also lived a few years in the US when I was younger.
In my experience, a lot of Europeans get high on their own farts and seem to think they’re much more enlightened than they actually are. Blatant racism and xenophobia is very much alive in many European countries despite some people liking to pretend it’s an exclusively American trait. It’s good that you’re aware of your country’s issues because that’s what allows for reassessment and improvement. At the same time, don’t buy into the idea that you are a third world country and that Europeans are somehow on a different level of enlightenment. Just like the US, they very much have issues and a lot of them seem to struggle recognizing this. Be proud that you’re self-aware enough to realize both the good and the bad of America and never apologize for who you are!
fietstocht@reddit
Lol you think Spain is xenophobic. Try Croatia
Chopimatics@reddit
All humans are shit, despite wheee in the world you’re from.
StatesOfTrance@reddit
You seem intelligent, conscientious, and self-aware - don’t let these things bring you down and just keep growing as an international citizen
Also…
I feel your frustration. My experiences have been more in South East Asia, but it’s not much different. I’m an outsider and judged based on my appearance and country of origin.
Unfortunately, many people are just kinda dumb. Many people just believe things without using any kind of rational thought or logical reasoning.
The real question here is: why do you need someone else’s approval or acceptance to live your best life?
If the people you’re hanging around with are so immature that they feel the need to heckle random people on the street in a racist way — then maybe you’re hanging out with low quality people.
I get that you want friends, but a lot of people are simply just low quality, low awareness - this isn’t a question of nationality.
When you find people that you really resonate with - the cultural differences don’t matter at all.
Simco_@reddit
Two things I always find interesting on this board:
When people who have the means and the ability to live a privileged life can be so naive and susceptible to memes and other manipulation when it comes to the america/rest of world aka people are people.
Similarly, that they can be fearful that saying the country someone they know is from would threaten their safety.
Your scenario comes from giving people power over you. You know you're not doing anything wrong. It's the other people being dumbasses. When someone does something shitty or is just as ignorant as you used to be, it's ok to just write them off as ignorant. They don't need to affect you.
princesssas@reddit
I was just having this exact conversation with someone today! I’m not American, but I’ve lived extensively in both the US and various European countries, and I just want to say that I completely recognize everything that you have experienced, and I’m sorry that people have made you feel bad about where you’re from. Frankly some of these people have just been plain rude! I’d honestly start to call people out on this behaviour right in the moment ( especially the people who will stay in your life) so they can begin to understand how ignorant they sound.
Aromatic_Mammoth_464@reddit
Theirs good n bad in all walks of life, for the English person to say he thinks America is a piece of shit doesn’t make sense, it says more about him personally, than what crap came out of his mouth, move on your doing a great job, enjoyed your article that you put together here, very well says and put together. Am not from the US, but can relate to it, think most people no matter what part of the world your from, can have these experiences in all walks of life. Best of luck for the future.