[Computerbase.de] Now available in Germany after all: AMD Ryzen 5 7600X3D launches exclusively at Mindfactory.de
Posted by constantlymat@reddit | hardware | View on Reddit | 80 comments
Oxire@reddit
Stupid product. The ones that can't afford a 7800x3d won't have a 1000+euro gpu either. Just get the 7700 with 2 extra cores at 100euro less.
For some reason people started to think that their 3060ti is getting bottlenecked by non-3d chips
KeyDragonfruit1960@reddit
So, currently it’s January 2025 and prices have changed drastically. For me in Germany, a 7800X3D is 500€, while the 7600X3D is only 300€. I want to build my first real PC (been gaming on an iMac) and for my gpu I want to go with the 5070 Ti or maybe even the 5080. I mainly want to game in 4K, so I think the 200€ extra for a better cpu wouldn’t give me extra value. What do you think?
Real-Human-1985@reddit
it's literally a handful of bad 7800X3D chips that will sell out inless than 90 days. Better to get money off them than send it to recycling eh?
CatsAndCapybaras@reddit
selling them as cut down version is recycling. How else do you recycle chips?
Strazdas1@reddit
melt down for silicon?
ch4ppi_revived@reddit
Wow you are this close to understanding how chips work
Strazdas1@reddit
you dont need a 1000 euro GPU to give 7800x3D a run for its money.
vegetable__lasagne@reddit
There's plenty of situations where 3060ti can be bottlenecked like playing WOW or certain FPS games at competitive settings.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
But in those situations you are already getting crazy FPS.
panix199@reddit
but X3D is worth the 100€ bump... in some games the performance upgrade is huge
peakbuttystuff@reddit
Unless you are absolutely sure you need 8 cores, at the present moment, you only need a 6 core 3D with tuned memory to supportt a 4090.
It's that good.
No_Share6895@reddit
heck in RT a 5700x3d can even. Especially with the update boost
dripkidd@reddit
tray nonX 7700 is available here in Hungary for just 180 EUR 7800x3d is double the price now
Str8Power@reddit
From what site?
arandomguy111@reddit
A lot people play games that are not very demanding for the GPU but do benefit from more CPU peformance. Games that are simulation heavy with more basic graphics for example.
So yes there can be people who benefit from higher end CPUs for having without having a 1k+ GPU
constantlymat@reddit (OP)
For now the pricing is unattractive, but things could look a lot different in 3-6 months when the release of the new X3D processors impacts pricing further down the stack.
Oxire@reddit
To benefit from this cpu you need both a high end gpu and low resolution. Both. If you have the money for a high end gpu, 60 more euros is nothing for the 7800x3d.
If +60euros is a lot for you, by getting a 7700 you save 100euro more, you get 2 more cores, and you will have the same gaming performance.
If it was far cheaper it would be good, but it going to be out of stock before that.
Astigi@reddit
Very hard sell with 7700X3D so close in price and so far in performance
ancestralhorse@reddit
Lol it’s 92% as good as the 7800X3D.
ElSzymono@reddit
"Coincidentally" this is a site heavily favoring AMD and from which it is easy to scrape sales data from.
AMD aiming for to easy PR points when tech sites start regurgitating their "95% market share at a major German retailer".
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
No, Mindfactory favors no-one. It's the customers who favor AMD-products.* MindFactory itself is just Europe's biggest e-tailer.
ElSzymono@reddit
That's why I wrote "favors AMD in sales". I'm not stating that they favor AMD as a retailer, just their clients do.
Look up their GPU sales stats from earlier this year. Nvidia and AMD are almost tied, which is obviously not representative of the whole market. Their 90% AMD market share in the DYI CPU market is not representative as well.
Almost every post on Reddit citing Mindfactory sales has a disclaimer that they are know to sell significantly more AMD products than other retailers. Maybe it's true for whole Germany I don't know.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
So what's wrong with that then? Did MindFactory something wrong? No, surely not.
They were just picked by AMD (largely influenced by their already highest sales-numbers, of course) and offered being exclusive retailer for said X3D-SKU – Just as AMD did with Micro Center in the U.S., right? It was neither MC's nor MF's fault to be picked.
ElSzymono@reddit
Like I clarified in my first post I'm not criticizing Mindfactory, just pointing out the lazyness of tech jounalists who like to cite skewed data for clicks. Mindfactory is a source of such skewed data, through no faulty of their own.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
They are, among Alternate.de Germany's single-biggest e-/retailers, who for a reason both have a pretty much excellent reputation, especially with regards to anything RMA, I know first hand – Asked some local friends about them.
What makes you Mindfactory being a source for skewed data by the way?
ElSzymono@reddit
Skewed as in not representative of a global DIY CPU market. Latest Mindfactory sales data point to 90% AMD market share which is not true on a larger scale. AMD leads I'm sure, but not by such large margin.
Their GPU sales data is also skewed towards AMD - their figures are about 55-45 NVIDIA vs AMD which is clearly not true on a larger scale as Steam Survey data clearly shows.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
What if it is though? I can drop a few hints from another e/retailer during the pandemics. A rather smaller company, it's a build-to-order DIY-company, where you can configure yourself your dream-system, so to speak. From top to bottom, case to the board, GPU, CPU, whatever PCi-E cards and whatnot equipments (mouse/keyboard, headsets and so on). Around 120 employees assembling the systems according to the customers' request. The systems' prices-tags ranged form 500-15,000 € per rig/customer.
Well, the company was having +1K orders incoming a day, and a backlog of about a week before delivery.
Point in case: Although most GPUs being ordered/shipped were Nvidia-GPUs (+60%), the orders itself were nearly 95-98% AMD-exclusive on the CPU side of things – As the customers just got more bang for the buck and more cores/$ while even getting a comparable performance but for sure way better price/performance-ratio while even having utter superior power/performance-metrics.
So traditionally speaking, AMD has a tight grip on Europe (same as in Asia…) and Germany itself is a AMD-stronghold, where many customers are buying AMD purely out of conviction and principle (historic Intel-shenanigans for decades to this day… Media Markt Saturn Holding getting paid 100M€/year to NOT sell anything AMD nor display such on the shelves).
The only crucial metrics for Europeans they care about, are Price/Performance, Long-term value and Resell-ability. Also, they'd rather drop 30% performance, if it significantly reduces the power-draw (since the power-bills are huge in Europe!).
That being said, these are metrics where Intel usually loses against AMD, no?
Also, what Europeans generally do NOT care at all, is brand … You can lull/catch U.S. consumers with that, but surely not Europeans.
Since Europeans just don't care about a fancy sticker on their laptop anyway nor about brand in general, it's futile.
I've seen this happening in a lot of said companies of that kind. The point is, Europe's customers are WAYS more experienced in technology in general (especially in Germany!) and most of them inform themselves profoundly before buying anything to make a viable and good thought-through purchase-decision. Also, customers in Europe and especially Germany, are extremely price-sensitive.
I can assure you, these +80% numbers in AMD's favor ARE real since anything Ryzen, same as in Japan and Asia in general.
Strazdas1@reddit
Point in case the data being extremely skewed when we know that Nvidia has over 90% of GPU marketshare. So your company with 60% is clearly not representative.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Yup, that's the fallacy of Questionable cause.
Anyway, it's funny that you're so hellbent to question any greater AMD-market-share. Says a lot to say the least.
Strazdas1@reddit
When the proposed market share is something silly like 95% of DIY market its easy to question, as we know that Intels DIY market alone makes more money than all consumer CPUs (DIY and OEM) combined for AMD.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
What has that to do with anything? Intel has way higher costs to cover and like 5× more personnel to feed and higher revenue, yet still loses not only profit but even market-share steadily since 2017. How do you explain that, when no-one allegedly buys anything AMD?
Strazdas1@reddit
So are you saying they are selling those 5% CPU volume at such prices that they cost more than the 95% remaining volume from AMD? because thats nonsense.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
You remember Skylake-X and how they had to slash their prices outright 50%, only for them being still slaughtered by AMD's Threadripper again? Fewer and fewer people are eager to stick to team blue by the week and now even day, given their handling of the latest eff-ups on their 13th and 14th Gen Core voltage-struggles and oxidation-issues, which makes it extremely risky to stick with Intel.
What people like you always love to forget, is that DIY-market is NOT effing irrelevant either way – The bulk of the revenue may come form the OEM-side of things. Yet the DIY-market is where high-margin-products are sold to enthusiasts, which are prone to drop +$2000 USD for a rig alone and +$750 USD for some fancy curved ultra-wide screen atop.
In addition to that, the DIY-market and the ENTHUSIASTS, is where ordinary people (those, who spend like $500-1000 USD tops on a mediocre notebook with fancy stickers) usually go to, to be advised for exactly WHAT and WHICH BRAND to buy.
So, no. The enthusiasts-market may be not so relevant from the revenue-perspective, yet it absolutely is from the high-margin side of things and is furthermore extremely crucially important to maintain a good standing at enthusiasts on a personal base.
Enthusiasts are the very DECISION-MAKERS for the ordinary people buying their pre-built OEM-system from Amazon/eBay!
That means, if your company somehow has managed to achieve a bad standing, miserable reputation and negatively connoted brand-wareness already at enthusiasts, it's only a matter of time, until it ultimately tickles down via enthusiasts' RECCOMMENDATIONS through ordinary people into the OEM-sector, eventually affecting your revenue in the long run.
Given how Intel made basically everything worse at every possible turn (when they had the chance to make it right) the last years since AMD's Ryzen, with refusing to step away from their everlasting socket-escapades (needing a new board for every second Gen), having utterly outrageous power-consumptions and whatnot – No wonder why Intel's market-share has steadily fallen since.
What you also forget, is Intel having easily twice or even thrice the manufacturing costs, compared to AMD. AMD, even when basically selling only half of Intel's volume (hypothetically speaking), makes still double the profit on their SKUs due to chiplets.
So that it really does NOT matter when Intel ships even twice the volume as AMD (hypothetically speaking) into the low-margin OEM-market, since they make ever so less profit on it (while AMD even makes more overall profit per SKU), while AMD steadily eats up their market-share, you see at Intel's ever declining revenue and especially profits – These ain't no more …
Just see Intel's quarterly presentations and how they had like +90% declines of profit more than ones in the datacenter/enterprise, despite shipping large volumes and had large quantities being moved for high revenues, while making basically no profit with them.
Strazdas1@reddit
Threadripper has never slaughterer anything but your power bill.
Anyway, the topic was misleading datapoints like your claim of 95% AMD CPUs in prebuilt market.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
I see … Seems most sane people are blind and deaf then. SMH
Was I was talking about pre-builds or DIY?
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
What you also forget, is Intel having easily twice or even thrice the manufacturing costs, compared to AMD. AMD, even when basically selling only half of Intel's volume (hypothetically speaking), makes still double the profit on their SKUs due to chiplets.
Intel could even sell at manufacturing-costs – AMD could beat them to it, undercut them and still make a profit at it! Thus, AMD literally bleeds Intel to death over time financially over time …
Ironically, that's just like Intel always did in every past, when they cut their competitors dry ever since at OEMs, lose from their revenue and make them eventually go bankrupt in the end and with that, finish them of as competition and clear the market.
Only that Intel made it always illegally and shadily behind closed doors, yet AMD does it legally and at broad daylight at customers!
Yet now, Intel is the one being forced out of the market by the very same method, their own market at that!
So it really does NOT matter when Intel ships even twice the volume as AMD (hypothetically speaking) into the low-margin OEM-market, since they make ever so less profit on it (while AMD even makes more overall profit per sold SKU), while AMD steadily eats up their market-share, which you see at Intel's ever declining revenue and especially profits – These ain't no more …
Just see Intel's quarterly presentations and how they had like +90% declines of profit more than ones in the datacenter/enterprise, despite shipping large volumes and had large quantities being moved for high revenues, while making basically no profit with them.
What goes around, comes around … xD
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
You make the mistake of thinking, these numbers from the Steam-HW surveys were representative in the first place. They are not, not at all. The Steam-data is heavily skewed due to hundreds of thousands of Chinese and Asian Internet-cafes, where predominantly Intel has a VERY hard grip on due to excessive rebates they grant (they're bribing the owners on mass since decades already).
That being said, MindFactory only represent numbers for Germany anyway, and maybe Europe to a way lesser extent. And yes, in Germany, AMD is loved and Germans have a special bond with AMD already, they proud of it and where AMD's 'home-market' back then in difficult times during the Bulldozer-days … So yes, these numbers are for sure 100% representative, at least for Germany.
Strazdas1@reddit
If it got to #1 bestseller because amazon kept putting it into everyones suggestions, yes.
Helpdesk_Guy@reddit
Even if MF would put AMD-CPUs in every chart by default, that doesn't gives AMD higher sales just because.
People ain't stupid, you're getting ridiculous …
FragrantMatch124@reddit
Why and how is Mindfactory favoring AMD? It just pulishes its sales numbers on specific products like GPUs and CPUs, thats it...
Also for GPUs is it hen favoring Nvidia over AMD, because for GPUs the AMD numbers are shit compared to Nvidia? Maybe its just, that the current AMD CPUs are more popular in germany than Intel...
I would argue it is the most neutral electronics dealer, because it publishes fhe unedited data as one of the only dealers in the german market.
Strazdas1@reddit
Mindfactory is known for good sales on AMD chips, but no good sales on Intel chips. That can easily be seen as favouring. As a result, their data is skewed and not representative of the market.
FragrantMatch124@reddit
They just sell pc compoments as a neutral distributor. Yeah they sell more AMD. But they don't favor AMD or any other company. They and their data are not representativ, but nobody claims that.
ElSzymono@reddit
I'm not stating that they favor AMD, just their clients do.
Look up their GPU sales stats from earlier this year. Nvidia and AMD are almost tied, which is obviously not representative of the whole market.
nanonan@reddit
Sure, just like how sales of parts directly to consumers is a subset of the whole market. How much of nvidias dominance in the consumer space is in OEM and laptop shipments?
Real-Human-1985@reddit
he's mad that they report sales during a time where AMD sells more.
dripkidd@reddit
either there is a conspiracy...
or
AMD does much better in DIY than in full PC market
(and DIY is tiny compared to prebuilt and mobile market but overrepresented in PC media and discussions leading to myopic conspiracies)
Strazdas1@reddit
Or neither of the choices here are true. There is no conspiracy and AMD does not do great in any market but servers.
ElSzymono@reddit
I'm absolutely sure that AMD does sell more in the DYI market than Intel. It's just that Mindfactory is not representative of the whole market in general.
Almost every Reddit post citing Mindfactory sales data has disclaimer stating that they sell significantly more AMD that other retailers.
NeroClaudius199907@reddit
Even if 20.5% of intel client sales are diy its larger than amd's client diy + oem.
nanonan@reddit
Perhaps point that out if and when it happens instead of concoting a fantasy.
constantlymat@reddit (OP)
rumsbumsrums@reddit
Since the middling at best Zen5 launch, the 7800X3D has been creeping up steadily in price.
2 months ago it was at the 299€ you mentioned, though that was a one-day sale. Usually the price was around 320-330€.
From mid-July to Zen 5 it was at a steady 350€ and since then has spiked to 388€ currently.
Looks like a decent amount of people wanted to wait out Zen5, saw it sucked and pulled the trigger on the 7800X3D
But even then, at 329€ the 7600X3D is still way to close to the current price of the 7800X3D. ~250€ would be more reasonable in my opinion.
benjiro3000@reddit
For, almost half the price you where able to get the 5700X3D (selling for 188 Euro), and sure, it was on AM4 and at worst 20% slower. But you can not beat the price, especially with AM4 board and DDR4 in mass supply around.
Its been one of the best value buys i did in ages. 199 (my price a while back) + 35 Euro AM4 board + some leftover 16GB DDR4 memory and it runs everything at basically 7700+ level of performance. That is why i do not understand people their drooling for new generation CPUs.
conquer69@reddit
The 7800x3d can be up to 40% faster which makes the 5700x3d 29% slower.
benjiro3000@reddit
Most benchmarks are on 1080p, what in turn gives a false sense of economy because you do not buy a 7800X3D to run games on 1080p. On 1440p its around 20%...
Lesbiotic@reddit
Tell that to all the competitive shooter enthusiasts who are running 1080p ~500hz monitors and high polling rate mice that use up additional cpu resources and need all the CPU performance they can get.
7800X3D is the best CPU for high hz gaming on the market right now, if anything people are more likely to want it for 1080p or 1440p low settings configurations than otherwise.
Strazdas1@reddit
or anyone that plays strategy/management/sim games.
Plank_With_A_Nail_In@reddit
That's like 10 people though.
Strazdas1@reddit
on something like cities skylines you could be running 480p for all the game cares running entire simulation in CPU.
conquer69@reddit
On 1440p it's also 40%. But the gpu limits it to 20%. That doesn't mean the cpu is slower.
benjiro3000@reddit
Woooosh ... people just wanting to win argumentative behavior but not getting the point.
xiox@reddit
Plenty of strategy games want CPU power despite low screen resolution.
FuzzyApe@reddit
Yep, anno 1800 must run like butter on an 7800x3d
jigsaw1024@reddit
I think this is part of it, but also that the enthusiast/gaming market may have made a shift to AMD in the last few months due to the issues with Intel chips.
Strazdas1@reddit
Ill see what the Zen 5 x3Ds offer before making that decision but right now it certainly looks like a better option.
constantlymat@reddit (OP)
I read a report according to which AMD discontinued a retailer rebate for the 7800X3D in advance of the Zen5 launch which is why I btw don't believe that AMD was as surprised about the benchmarking results as they want us to believe.
PotentialAstronaut39@reddit
Bought it around 333 Euro ( 500$ CAD ) back in end of April, glad I did, it's almost 600$ CAD now.
MindTheBees@reddit
Maybe this is naive, but if you were willing to wait for Zen 5 (ie. You don't need a CPU right now), then shouldn't you be waiting to see the 9800X3D performance rather than basing it on the non-X3Ds? I don't really see anyone recommending any non-X3D 7000s either unless purely for productivity.
rumsbumsrums@reddit
Probably because the non X3D uplift was extremely minor and one can assume the same for the X3D processor. So one would rather get the 7800X3D now for a good price than a maybe OK 9800X3D for a way too expensive launch price.
Taldirok@reddit
I'm so glad i bought my 7800X3D during last black friday, got a combo 7800X3D for 330€ and a X670E Steel legend for 230€ these prices are really not great now.
pluuth@reddit
Hello, this is me exactly
Strazdas1@reddit
1 day sale prices shouldnt be compared to regular prices.
Vb_33@reddit
Same thing they just pulled with the Ryzen 5900XT.
imaginary_num6er@reddit
Here I was expecting MicroCenter to launch a new store in Europe
B1GJH@reddit
Price already down to €319. Hold the line!
RayphistJn@reddit
Finally something for Europe, suck it US.
ch4ppi_revived@reddit
Are you 12?
RayphistJn@reddit
I wish I was, maybe some day
No_Share6895@reddit
nah we got the 7600x3d too
bubblesort33@reddit
Now give us Canadians a MemoryExpress launch.