Why do used cars cost almost as much as new cars?
Posted by throwawaits45@reddit | askcarguys | View on Reddit | 163 comments
So I'm in the market for my first SUV. I'm searching for a nice car with high reliability. Upon doing some reseach it seems the best cars for what I'm looking for are toyota RAV4, honda CRV, mazda CX-5.
Thought I'd save some money and go the used car route, but the prices are so similar to the newest ones. Why shouldn't I just get a new car and sell it for practically the same price 5 years later? Seems like a much better investment. Am I wrong?
CAM6913@reddit
It’s because “I know what I have NO low ballers”.
morelsupporter@reddit
because reliable cars maintain their value.
try looking at an Audi Q7 on the used market.
janelgreo@reddit
Or a Q5 and even SQ5 lol, I was surprised how cheap they are used.
dkaoster@reddit
Going to get down voted to hell for this, but it's the "reputation of reliability" that makes them cheap. I was the one that bought a dirt cheap used Q5 three years ago. It's got 110k miles now and the most reliable car I've ever owned.
My buddy that overpaid through the nose for a used Toyota Corolla and did a prepurchase inspection at the dealer? His transmission blew up on the freeway not even a month after he got it.
clear831@reddit
You are at the mileage that problems start to happen
dkaoster@reddit
Perhaps, but so far in the past three years I've saved money compared to if I bought an equivalent overpriced used Toyota / Honda / etc. Maybe the next 20-30k miles is where that equation flips in favor of the Japanese brands but we'll see, I have been absolutely meticulous about maintenance so hopefully it works out for me.
clear831@reddit
Do you have the 3.0T? I was meticulous with maintenance, once we hit 115k miles we started to get oil burning and that was the start of the problems.
dkaoster@reddit
2.0T, I was having slight oil burning issues a while ago but I did the berryman's treatment (there are a few videos on YouTube) and it solved the problem completely.
clear831@reddit
The 2.0 is better than the 3.0 for sure. I wish you luck
Rapom613@reddit
Wife has a 3.0t q5 that has been a rock. My S8 has also been a champ. Neither has needed an unscheduled repair in a combined 300k of ownership, and both have been tuned the majority of their lives. German cars are more sensitive to buying the right one. BMW n54? Dog 💩 BMW b58? Better than most anything else
jonnyt88@reddit
I'll upvote you on this. Audi C5 Allroads, B8 2.0L anything, rear timing job on the 4.2L are reasons people shit on Audis. But they also have some decently reliable vehicles these days, and there are plenty of non-OEM options and non-dealership repair shops that can make their ownership not much more expensive than other vehicles.
Ok_Enthusiasm_300@reddit
Cries in trying to sell a 17 Q5
clear831@reddit
What issue are you having with the q5?
Ok_Enthusiasm_300@reddit
None! Just bought a 4Runner lol
clear831@reddit
Gotcha, we have a Q7, tons of problems with it. We looked at the 4Runner but it was just to "rugged" for us.
AntiGravityBacon@reddit
I'll give you $20
mattmaster68@reddit
u/Ok_Enthusiasm_300
Ignore the user above me. I’m poor and desperate.
I’ll give you $30 and pictures of my male Chihuahua.
iAMtheMASTER808@reddit
Yea add at least 5k to the price for repairs. Audis are some of the least reliable cars out there. Most Audi customers just lease and they know that. They have no real incentive to make something reliable
BRGNBeast@reddit
Not true. Leasing an Audi or buying a CPO Audi is far more experience than buying an older one out of warranty that needs repairs. It cost me $27,000 to lease an S4. It cost me $5000 to own a C7 A6 3.0T with 155K miles on it for 2.5 years. With a new car you are paying for depretiation. With a used high mileage car you won’t eat much in depretiation, you are paying for repairs and maintence which is much cheaper.
iAMtheMASTER808@reddit
I don’t disagree with that. It’s not really related to my point. My point was most Audi dealership customers lease. Usually they are people with money who don’t really care about reliability or keeping the car long. That’s why Audis aren’t made to last.
BRGNBeast@reddit
“Aren’t made to last” I have 186K miles on mine now. Interior looks new and ZF8 shifts smoother than most new cars I’ve driven.
morelsupporter@reddit
there are exceptions to every rule
janelgreo@reddit
Hence why I chose an Acura over an Audi for a car I want to keep long term lol.
smmstv@reddit
Right but a brand new one is even more reliable right? So why does it cost the same or less?
Acceptable_Ad_667@reddit
You need to understand we are in a 6 year span of a fucked up market. This is not normal. Low supply, high demand in covid inflated prices and dropped supply, now supply has peaked and demand has dropped. Buying a 3-4 year old used car is a terrible investment because they were so overpriced and people are upside down on loans. If your buying a car in today's market, buy new, or at least 5+ years old.
FoxChess@reddit
You spend too much time on this subreddit and you think a mid-sized SUV has only 3 options being Honda Toyota and Mazda, the three most depreciation-averse brands in America
Emanresu909@reddit
You make it sound like a bad thing. When people know your product isn't garbage they part with their money more easily
FoxChess@reddit
It's not a bad thing--I am a pretty hardcore loyalist to Japanese brands.
I'm shopping similarly for my wife and Toyota, Honda, and Mazda only make sense purchased new, in my opinion. We are also are considering a new Subaru or a certified pre-owned Volvo, BMW, or Lexus. VW also has great options as does Chevy and Jeep for SUVs.
But people in this sub act like anything except Toyota, Honda, or Mazda are asking for thousands of dollars in maintenance every year and that just isn't true. CUV/midSUVs are really not that complicated to maintain. Stay on top of maintenance and any brand can prove reliable.
What's also worth noting is the driver experience. Toyota (sorry to my favorite brand) is an honestly uncomfortable riding experience compared to other brands, and ride comfort is very important for an SUV in my opinion. Toyota just doesn't seem to care about driver/passenger comfort like VW or luxury brands do.
Emanresu909@reddit
There are definitely other options to consider aside from Toyota and Honda but I definitely disagree that VW and Jeep are on that list. They are utter trash
I had a VW Touareg TDI. The CP4.1 fuel pump failed and took out the entire fuel system. It had dieselgate warranty because of the fuel injector in the emissions system luckily, but in total the parts bill without labour was over 20k. VWs are plagued with electrical gremlins too.
Jeeps are just trash in general. Build quality - garbage. Engines - garbage. The european influence would normally be a plus but the shit quality means the advanced fuel system technology and canbus communication systems actually make the vehicles worse
aleoplurodon@reddit
Cp4 Bosch pump is a common failure and is not brand specific. Many fords have this exact same pump with same failure for example. Apples to oranges though bc Japanese diesel offerings are no where near the quantity of European.
Emanresu909@reddit
I agree the CP4 is garbage and found in various vehicles. Not to be facetious but the CP4 in the PSD is not the same; it is a CP4.2 which is a two piston version of the CP4. I wouldn't buy a Ford diesel either.
I am not sure what your intention is with your comment as it does not take away from what I said at all. If anything it reinforces it.
dogswontsniff@reddit
Laughs in 7.3PSD....
Emanresu909@reddit
The 7.3 is the only diesel I would put close to the 5.9 for reliability (in a 3/4+). Mine's an 06 5.9
dogswontsniff@reddit
Grandpa's 12v can't get out of its own way, but always goes!
Emanresu909@reddit
06 is common rail 24v, pre-emissions. I pass people on hills on the highway pulling my travel trailer regularly.
dogswontsniff@reddit
That's why I specified. That ones my only foray into Cummins.
I think the only times 24v had a problem was a certain set of engine blocks in late 1998?
Last two times shopping around they were out of price range for what i needed. And I knew three 7.3 enthusiast mechanics.
Emanresu909@reddit
The Cummins main issue is a nut in the grid heater that comes loose and falls into the intake runner. On the common rail trucks this is a HUGE pain because in order to get the grid heater off you have to pull all the high pressure lines off (which are single use only), and the fuel rail itself.
In the 4th gen and later the rear of the rail is buried way back under the cab and a sensor and fitting are crammed between a lifting eye for the engine and the head. They are F.T. and you have zero leverage to get at them. Plus if you break the fitting loose and go too far you risk snapping the $2500 FP sensor off. Ask me how I know.
dogswontsniff@reddit
Yikes.
Neighbors IDI 7.3 recently ran into a starting issue. A little Googling and it was the return fuel line.
Those are the kind of problems I can solve and fix haha.
aleoplurodon@reddit
The pump tappets are made of the same material on dual piston models, and suffer the same fate as the single piston units, they just shed more material faster. Not trying to take away what you said, just discourse. I think it’s important to highlight this as a supplier failure rather than an oem failure. The weak point of their engine is the same as many others of different makes and models.
Slartibartfastthe2nd@reddit
I owned a Volvo XC (2003 model if I recall). Loved it. Comfortable, quiet, fast.
Unfortunately a very minor collision totaled it. It was my fault, I very lightly rear ended a jeep cherokee with a ball hitch. Damage looked minor, just a busted grill but it also hit and bent/broke a cooling line and it limped home. Before that (I bought it used) it did seem to need to go to the shop every 3-4 months for nothing less than $500/trip for this and that.
If I go luxury label again it will likely be Lexus or Acura. If going American, probably Buick (go ahead, flame me!). Ford, GM, Dodge? not likely.
Emanresu909@reddit
Hey the Regal GS is a slept on car for sure
Slartibartfastthe2nd@reddit
Buick seems to be the only American badge that gets decent quality/reliability marks in the past decade... I'm completely ignorant on their current model lineup though.
Emanresu909@reddit
I just like that every once in a while sleepy old grandpa snorts a line and chucks a turbo in their otherwise boring line up lol
Slartibartfastthe2nd@reddit
huh? in a late model Buick? lol. The Grand Nationals are decades old at this point!
cshmn@reddit
Buick sold more supercharged cars in all years from the early 90s to the mid 2000s than any other automaker. Their whole lineup was supercharged in the top trims. Fast forward to 2010-present and many models are turbo.
Emanresu909@reddit
The 90s regal GS was supercharged and when they turbocharged it later in the 2000s it was actually still pretty rare for cars in North America to be turbocharged
fightmilk37@reddit
1990-2007 jeeps are some of the most reliable cars i’ve ever driven and what I daily
FoxChess@reddit
They're definitely not on my radar if anything because they just aren't very attractive cars. But every manufacturer will have lemons, and if you're afraid of a lemon better to avoid a brand like Toyota who are known for awful warranty customer service and go for a brand like Subaru known for making things right.
Jeep SUVs are different from the rest of their lineup, but shoutout to the Wrangler for also being on the shortlist for least depreciating modern cars. Grand Cherokee does itself a disservice with the Jeep mark and is a great SUV.
Emanresu909@reddit
Did you seriously put Subaru above Toyota on the "avoiding lemons" discussion board? Wow.
Rapom613@reddit
I used to work at an MB dealership next door to a Subaru dealership. In the 5 years I worked there I saw 2 transmissions fail, meanwhile the Subaru store had boxes and boxes of them piled up out back.
FoxChess@reddit
No, I said that Subaru has a much better warranty service than Toyota and they stand behind the quality of their products while Toyota washes their hands of any problems as soon as the car is off the lot.
Emanresu909@reddit
"If you are afraid of a lemon better avoid a brand likr toyota.."
FoxChess@reddit
I don't think you understand what a lemon is. Every brand has lemons. If you're purchasing and afraid of a lemon, you want a good warranty behind your purchase.
Emanresu909@reddit
If you are afraid of a lemon the first step is to buy from a brand with the least occurences of lemons. I don't give a flying F how nive Subaru dealers are regarding customer service. They are that way because they practically run a fleet of lemons when compared to Toyota
stevedropnroll@reddit
Toyota selling few lemons is of little consolation if you get one of the few lemons, and they deny your warranty. This is what the poster you're replying to is saying: that a buyer who is scared of dealing with a lemon would do better to go with a manufacturer that handles that scenario well rather than one where the scenario is just unlikely.
Emanresu909@reddit
I wouldn't buy anything with a boxer engine in it period. It is proven problematic.. why risk it?
cynicalkindness@reddit
The Toyota tax is real because everyone else is a lemon compared to them.
cynicalkindness@reddit
Only if you drive off the lot at 85 mph!
salesmunn@reddit
I agree, I love the reliability of Toyota and Honda but their vehicles are boring AF. If I can just get another brand with a full bumper-to-bumper 100k warranty, I just do that instead.
Emanresu909@reddit
Honda vehicles are only boring if you buy the boring models. I have an Accord 2.0t and a civic type R.. anything but boring.
Even their sport hatch is OK with 185hp and a manual transmission. Definitely not exhilarating but you're buying an economy, near-base model car. The seating position is great as a driver's car. The suspension and steering are responsive when compared to other cars in the segment..
If you buy a 2.0 N/A base civic with a squishy CVT behind it, it is going to be boring.
G_W_Atlas@reddit
Anything with a MT is going to feel more sporty than an automatic. "Sporty" "exhilarating" "fun" are sensation and perception. If you want a fast 0-60, EVs will do it, but EVs and CVTs will never provide the tactile sensations to feel "exhilarating". It's why those old eco boxes with a 5 speed and like 100hp felt peppy and were kinda fun - an MT that wasn't tuned for max eco and fuel economy.
dogswontsniff@reddit
2018 Mitsubishi mirage.
Oil changes, tires, I think I changed the air filter twice, and brakes
79hp 5sp.
Fucking love my go kart
Emanresu909@reddit
Yes, which is why a blanket statement that Honda and Toyota are boring is objectively wrong
Rapom613@reddit
As a whole, they are. They have a couple interesting models, but by and large they are vanilla. Which is fine for the majority of people
Emanresu909@reddit
The bulk of every car company's line up consists of practical, boring cars. Most people see cars as an expensive necessity for A-B.. in order to sell cars they have to keep them vanilla
Rapom613@reddit
Not all. Some companies have a very inspired design to them, and build truly lovely cars that are great to drive. A car doesn’t have to just be an appliance. Mazda does build a lovely car, great looking and while I haven’t driven their newer offerings x historically they drove great. Mercedes has very classically handsome cars with attractive interiors, and very composed ride Nearly every vehicle Porsche builds is a styling, and drivers masterpiece. Expensive yes but amazing cars. Reliable too Cars don’t have to be boring, just that’s what most people want sadly
Emanresu909@reddit
I've owned multiple mazda3s and multiple civics. The civics were absolutely more fun to drive.
Slartibartfastthe2nd@reddit
I'm glad I don't have the car worship disease! For me it's boats and pew pew's, but I'm somehow able to keep those both fairly well in check.
G_W_Atlas@reddit
Yes, which is why I was agreeing with you?
Emanresu909@reddit
It sounded like you were trying to educate me and disagree lol.
G_W_Atlas@reddit
Nope. I was expanding on the point you were making and adding that I have a bit of a stronger opinion.
Id say most cars are boring now and it's not that old cars had better specs, but they focused more on driving experience. Lots of economy cars from 15+ years ago felt fun because they had manual transmissions and didn't have every system in the car tuned for max fuel economy.
Rapom613@reddit
Having worked at a Honda dealership, their newer cars are NOT what they used to be sadly. If you want a strong warranty, a lot of the German brands offer an unlimited mileage warranty on CPO For instance, Porsche Macan (yes I know it’s expensive) ex service loaner, will be around 6 months old, and have 5.5 years and unlimited mileage bumper to bumper warranty. You can even extend it 1 additional year
Zomics@reddit
If you want the reliability but want more excitement and comfort then their luxury brands would probably do you well. Can’t speak much to Acura but Lexus is often joked about as just being a Toyota wrapped in leather. They often share engines and platforms at less the brand. The Toyota Camry and ES350 are basically twins. Same engine 2gr-fe, just different appearances. My 08 IS350 has the 2gr-fse, it’s slightly more complicated but it’s basically just the direct injected version of the Camry engine and it’s RWD. You still see them hitting 300k+ miles with ease but you get more performance and a more sporty style. They still use these engines in their new models if that says anything about their reliability.
G_W_Atlas@reddit
Yah, I'm calling this. BMW, Volvo, VW, and Jeep are only for people that can afford to buy a replacement car at any time
BMW, Volvo have prohibitively high maintenance costs which, unlike Honda and Toyota, must be done with OEM parts at the right time. VW is the same, but parts are just really expensive, not insane. Because of that when you buy used there is a good chance it was never maintained, but you won't know until it dies at 150k from poor early life maintenance. BMW and VW aren't super reliable, and neither is Volvo post buy out.
Chevy's use to be decent because parts were cheap and it was easy to pick and pull off wrecks. Not the case anymore from what I understand.
Jeep is one of the most notoriously unreliable cars you can buy.
FoxChess@reddit
Yes because people who own BMW, Volvo, VW, and Jeep regularly wake up one day to a car that won't run and they just go out and buy a new one. Normal part of owning a non-Japanese car!
What a ridiculous idea.
G_W_Atlas@reddit
Yah, it is pretty ridiculous to buy a unreliable car that has cost prohibitive repair costs.
Rapom613@reddit
If it keeps it safe and reliable, I wouldn’t call normal service cost prohibitive. Good rule of thumb is 2% of the cars New MSRP, per year, in service and repairs, will keep it reliable. Some will be more, some will be less but this is a solid average. Having owned over 30 cars and worked in auto repair for 15 years it has held true
Rapom613@reddit
This!!! I’ve owned over 30 cars, only ones never to leave me stranded have been German.
TheMikeyMac13@reddit
Nothing against Japanese models, but owning two Hyundais and a Kia drove me to be domestic only. I now only buy Fords.
But I do my own work with my own tools, and I need cars which are better designed for home maintenance.
ApePositive@reddit
Extraordinary
FoxChess@reddit
Kia and Hyundai are Korean, not Japanese. They're also known to be dogshit quality. Despite how well the new electric Kia is reviewed, I could never bring myself to own a Kia.
I have an F-150 EcoBoost and a Ford Escape, and while they have not proven unreliable, I cannot get over how absolutely trash the driving experience is. I hate the loose steering, I hate the delayed acceleration, I hate the laggy transmission, and I hate feeling like I'm driving around a tin can. They are easy to work on and cheap to maintain, but they're the most "Made in China" feeling cars I've ever driven.
TheMikeyMac13@reddit
I meant to say that, it is why I said nothing against Japanese carmakers, who have a better rep for quality, but not a better rep for being easy to work on.
I won’t ever own a Korean car again.
We have a 2014 Mustang, which has been amazing. Good power, good fuel economy, a great driving experience, and nothing on it has broken in ten years and 120,000 miles. Literally just the battery and the starter. (I take care of it)
We also have a 2017 Edge, which is good on power, economy and isn’t a terrible drive, but it is more wonky on being able to service it, and it has needed more work.
In the last few months I have replaced the battery, (it has gone through three of them) the brake master cylinder, the water pump, (thankfully I have the 2.0 eco boost, the v6 kills the engine when the water pump goes) two of the brake calipers, all of the brake lines were recalled, and now I have a brake light I can’t source.
As for the eco boost F150, I have struggled with the idea of buying a truck with a small turbo engine, it doesn’t seem like the right choice for a truck.
Holiday-Animator-504@reddit
AFM with GM trucks and SUVs 😬
Jeeps 😬😬
jfisk101@reddit
None of those are even SUVs lol, they're all crossovers.
sllewgh@reddit
Obviously not if they're wondering why used cars are expensive.
B_gumm@reddit
I think they are great picks OP
Shsa@reddit
I think he meant least depreciated due to quality and low maintenance cost
Squancher70@reddit
Op, you need to be shopping for 10-15 year old cars, not 5 year old ones.
That's where the savings are.
aron2295@reddit
Because everyone listened to their dad, uncle, grandpa, friend, the guy who knows a guy whose cousin used to be a car salesman or their dog’s drinking buddy and ONLY buys USED CARS because STEALERSHIPS make 1000% profit on new cars and as soon as the rear axle crosses over the curb, the car is worth 50% of the OTD price. That’s what happens when you buy “the deal”, vs the the actual product / service.
abgtw@reddit
A Dodge Durango SRT new is $80k, 2021 used is $52k.
Budget SUVs like the RAV/CRV/CX5 have high demand and most people just want a new-ish body style so they don't mind paying still 80-90% of the price and going used when yeah your right it might make little sense...
Car markets fluctuate, when the manufacturers produce too many of one model the incentives can definitely make a new car a deal better in comparison to used at times!
Motor_Arugula_4282@reddit
Because you live in an apartment with no chargers available. Because you take long road trips and don’t want tor recharge 3/4 of the way there, because you don’t like the idea of your car being useless if the grid goes down for some reason.
Form1040@reddit
Because you live in a cold climate and EVs suck in the winter.
fedpe@reddit
Good argument. Except the power grid one. On a downed grid the pumps won't work (the fuel tanks are underground) and, you won't be able to fill anyway.
Dirk-Killington@reddit
Unless you live somewhere with a truly shitty grid and the gas stations all have backup generators.
hx87@reddit
At that point why not get your own backup generator?
Dirk-Killington@reddit
I'm cheap, and don't really mind it until it gets to like day 3.
Rikij0@reddit
Welcome to Texas!
fedpe@reddit
Keep going. You'll find the solution real soon.
abgtw@reddit
How long does your grid 'go down'? The best part of EVs is my car is already charged so when the grid does go down I have 80KW of power to still run whatever I want at home, or just drive 300 miles to where the grid is up!
B_gumm@reddit
Because EVs run ok batteries containing cobalt that is hand mined by slaves
abgtw@reddit
LFP batteries are cobalt free just FYI. Many EVs are swapping over to that chemistry. Go look at the Tesla Model 3 or Y for example :)
B_gumm@reddit
Thanks for educating me
AstridsDad@reddit
Not everyone is a home owner who can charge easily. Also, depending on where you live, charging locations can be sparse. It also takes at least 30min to get a decent charge when out in public and ifntou do need to replace the battery, it will be upwards of $10k in cost if not covered under warranty. Why get a gas car? Because even in 2024 it's way more convenient to own
abgtw@reddit
Yeah charging at home is best. I think most people used to gas cars forget that with EVs you start out every day with a 'full tank' and I don't drive over 300 miles per day on average so it's a moot point.
Replacement of the battery is no different than a failed engine. Both cost about the same. The government mandates an 8 year 100k mile warranty on the battery so that helps vs the average gas vehicle warranty!
Quake_Guy@reddit
Used cars are easier to finance for people with bad credit so demand bumps up low mile vehicle price to almost new levels.
You are definitely right about buying a new one although expect more depreciation 5 years from now.
hypnofedX@reddit
This is absolutely not true. Much easier to get someone with marginal credit approved on a new car. Finance companies judge everything in terms of risk. Higher-risk buyers need to be in lower-risk cars. That means new with an unstarted factory warranty.
Quake_Guy@reddit
So why do used late model cars cost nearly as much as a new one?
hypnofedX@reddit
I've sold plenty of low-mile pre-owned cars to customers priced higher than an equivalent new car on my lot, nodding along as they tell me how new cars are a rip-off for people who make terrible financial choices.
TheFrostynaut@reddit
Are you looking at Used Car Dealers or are you looking for Cousin Raymond because the dealers are absolutely gonna take you for a ride unless you're good a looking at fine print.
I'd personally rather take my chances playing Lemon Roulette on FB Marketplace or Craigslist, but I understand I'm probably in the minority.
Hot_Tower_4386@reddit
New cars suck
BassWingerC-137@reddit
SUVs suck.
exenos94@reddit
SUV's have a purpose and that's to be the one vehicle that does everything ok. Once you figure that out you realize that they're ok. And that s what they're designed to do. Ok fuel economy, ok space, ok hauling/towing, ok ground clearance. They don't excel and are a compromise in everything but not everyone can have multiple vehicles for different purposes
BassWingerC-137@reddit
Yeah, I know. I own them, but they still suck. :)
ZombiesAtKendall@reddit
I haven’t seen five year old vehicles priced similar to new. Maybe they have different options. Sometimes places like to advertise new cars that are base models, so you might be comparing a base model new car with an older car that has more options.
What I have seen, is there’s not as much of a drop off in price for used. So you can get a new car for X price, or a used car with about half its life left for half the price. Like you’re not getting a better deal just because it’s used.
Legitimate_Dare6684@reddit
Right. Facebook market you see a nice 4 runner, decent price, scroll down, 310,000 miles. Lol. Nope.
thecoat9@reddit
With few exceptions, vehicles aren't an investment. I am nit picking a bit here, and I completely understand considering how well such a significant expense hold value over time, but unless you are talking a rare garage queen or the like a vehicle shouldn't be viewed as an "investment".
It absolutely makes sense to buy something new vs used if the immediate depreciation isn't significant and the difference between the two is almost nominal. It is dangerous to assume that the current market will remain the same 5 years from now.
I know a guy who at the height of the covid/supply chain induced market bubble put down 20k on the purchase of a new car. He drove it and made payments on it for two years and then got rear ended in an accident. He told me he hoped insurance would total the car and pay out blue book value on it because he still owed somehting like 9k on the car and the blue book was around 14k. Personally it sounds like he got taken to the cleaners but at the time he needed a vehicle, there probably wasn't much choice. He more easily accepted the situation because he bought what he wanted with no intent to try and sell the vehicle at a profit, or even to mostly break evven.
Butt_bird@reddit
I bought a 2013 Honda Fit recently . It was waaaay cheaper than a new one.
No_Profile_120@reddit
Check out Buick. They are the only other brand outside of toyota and honda that consistently score high in reliability. You may also benefit from more favorable depreciation on the used market.
west-town-brad@reddit
Is a $5,000 different practically the same?
Countryboy322@reddit
More reliable some brands
Capable-Variation192@reddit
Greed.
tallwater333@reddit
I usually buy used but recently bought new. Couldn't pass up a 3% interest rate for new compared to 6% for used. Practically the same price too.
thegothhollowgirl@reddit
Why not buy beaters , or something in your budget, outright and have no payment?
tallwater333@reddit
Not having to worry about it starting in the morning before work or breaking down for a few years under warranty is priceless.
DazzlingDog7890@reddit
It all started with Obama‘s genocide of the market with his cash for clunkers program. Things haven’t been the same since, then came the chip shortage.
Talentless_Cooking@reddit
If you're buying from a dealership then yeah, it's going to be pricy, private sale is the way to go.
BRGNBeast@reddit
Mazdas are the best value on the market. You can get thousands off MSRP (which is generally already less than Honda and Toyota) plus they have 0% options vs 5-8% from Honda and Toyota. It’s also a better car imo.
Sad_Consequence_3269@reddit
At this point with all the recalls. It's because the used cars are proven to work
slamdaniels@reddit
High reliability cars hold their value. This is especially true for the Toyota RAV4 and possibly the other ones you mention. The CUV AWD segment is probably the most in demand and popular vehicle category right now as well. If you don't mind taking on the debt than financing a new or nearly used car is an option. The used market has changed significantly.
NotPortlyPenguin@reddit
Another thing to consider from the financing end is that rates are lower for new cars, so yes, your payment may actually be lower for a new car.
PresentTap9255@reddit
To actually answer your question, it’s because most cars made in the past 5 years (and later) are better quality than the ones being made now; and quality in semiconductors mostly. Remember the semiconductor shortage that we’re currently in… yeah; the first mass major technology affected was cars.
DavidAg02@reddit
It's kind of a weird paradox... as new cars get more expensive or when interest rates are higher, it makes people keep their current cars for longer. That means that there are now less used cars on the market, which also drives up the price of used cars.
That's why there is so much pressure on car manufacturers to always be innovating with new features and models that will entice buyers to spend the money on something new.
TheMikeyMac13@reddit
In 2014 I was in the market for a car, having earned a promotion at work, I could afford it.
I suggested an adult choice, something like a Chevy Cruze, and my wife shot me down. I had never liked them, (still don’t) so she said we weren’t buying a lot of cars, to get something I wanted. To go buy a Mustang.
So I started looking at 2010 and 2011 used Mustangs, and I was shocked that the used prices were very nearly the same as new prices, and without the benefit of dealer / manufacturer discounts.
I ended up buying a brand new 2014 v6 auto Mustang for $13,600, after all the discounts applied. It was cheaper than a used one, and has been the best car I have ever bought.
To your question, I can only guess, but here goes:
Carmakers tend to overbuild for a variety of reasons. Union contracts mandating production levels, overestimation of market demand, and at present many models are overpriced.
This leads manufacturers to discount, and by thousands of dollars, as in my case. The used car market doesn’t tend to work that way.
If you buy from an individual, they are going to want to hold out for every dollar, they don’t have 1,000 cars to sell, they have one.
If you buy from a used car lot, they will cut the price if you negotiate, but they will discount on one hand, and then F you over on the APR / down payment / monthly payment on the other hand.
Used cars from car lots are like going to a pawn shop.
They buy cars at auction, in bulk from dealers who have trade in’s they don’t want, and pay pennies on the dollar to people who do their own trade ins.
Then they shine the car up, armor all the tires and sell at a large mark up with interest not approaching credit card interest.
So right now buying new is the way to go, but don’t focus in too much on specific models and carmakers, there are a lot of good ones out there, and a lot of bad.
Do you do your own maintenance? If so that should be a part of the process, can you work on the car you are buying or is it designed for the dealer to do the work?
And I would suggest to steer clear of new models, let other people do the early model testing for you.
iAMtheMASTER808@reddit
Due to their high reliability, those cars are all great at holding their value. While that is definitely a positive, it also means you won’t save much buying a used one that is less than 4 years old. It’s also very difficult to get those cars new for under msrp. If you put in the work to find a good deal on a new one and are maybe willing to travel a bit to a decent dealer, it may be well worth it to buy new. Especially since u can also get a lower interest rate with a new car.
Honda and Toyota make great cars but what no one talks about is how their dealerships are some of the shadiest and greediest ones. Since those cars are in such high demand, they don’t really have to work with you to get a sale
Caca_Face420@reddit
ICE vehicles were “perfected” around 2015. By perfected, I mean the ultimate balance between performance and reliability was achieved. Since then most advancements have been technologically related, which makes it harder to work on. Hybrid and fully EV tech isn’t as far along as ICE and consumer demand hasn’t shifted either. Throw in cash for clunkers and the supply chain issues of Covid and you have less used cars on the road, and people holding onto cars longer. Ppl are more inclined to drive it until the wheels fall off or give their car to their kid vs trading it in.
The result is higher used car costs. People expect used cars to go 300-400k miles. That was unheard of in most 80s and even most 90s vehicles
MarkVII88@reddit
The problem with many used cars from the past 3-4 years is that the people who bought them brand new between 2020 and 2023 paid way, way, way too much money for them. This was during the height of the COVID pandemic when plants shut down, parts shortages occurred, and new car inventory plummeted. Cars, trucks, and SUVs had crazy dealer markups, and people stupidly paid thousands more than they should have to buy these vehicles. Couple that with the inflation as a result of the Trump era economic policies, and you had loan interest rates going up too. So the dumbasses who paid too much for these vehicles when new, had to finance them at rates that were 3-4X higher than in pre-COVID years. What does this all mean?
throw_away__25@reddit
Lol
Golf-Guns@reddit
Correct. Since COVID is really been the first market in my memory where a new vehicle at MSRP made more financial sense or equal to that of a 3 year old car.
The market for new has cooled off and there are dealer incentives, willingness to negotiate, etc.
For whatever reason it hasn't exactly translated to the used market yet, but it certainly will soon.
meatcandy97@reddit
Supply/demand.
PoutPill69@reddit
You're boldly assuming that the screwed up market isn't going to unscrew itself in 5 years.
Pandemic pricing is going to have a tough time holding up without a Pandemic...
ExistentialRap@reddit
I wanted a 2-3 year old car to abuse lot depreciation. Nope. More expensive than MSRP new.
Found same car cheaper new (at MSRP) 600 miles away. $150 plane ticket and saved thousands. Plus got a new car. You either travel or order for MSRP. Sadly, my truck died so I needed a car ASAP.
Only worth if you get at MSRP though. My local dealers had priced everything up because of “the luxury of the car already being on the lot”.
EspHack@reddit
new ones arent exactly better, they're increasingly becoming sidegrades
and its just normal, give it another 10 years and even bad cars will "hold their value", heck even phones and computers prices are unusually stagnant lately, printer must go brrr
smmstv@reddit
I was wondering that too. I was helping a family member car shop recently, and we were looking at Honda civics. The used ones were MORE than the new ones, and the new ones obviously are a better deal all around - lower rates, warranty, you're the only driver, etc.
At the end of the day, it's all economics, right? The used cars cost more than the new cars because people are willing to pay more for them, than the new ones. But why??
punkinhead76@reddit
Dealers know they’ll sell high priced or not. So why not make more money? They still think a 2014 is “almost new” just because it probably has a backup cam and MAYBE Apple CarPlay, so of course it’s worth 15,000+ no matter that it has 150,000 miles on it…
SSNs4evr@reddit
2008 is the newest of the 3 drivers in my household, because there's nothing wrong with them (no mechanical, cosmetic, or rust issues), we hate the screens, and LexisNexis. My pickup is at 138k, my wife's car is 149k, and my work truck is at 213k. My wife's car will probably become my daughter's first car, and she'll get a new one. I worry that if/when I'm forced to let any of my "old reliables" go, that I'll be able to find something nice in a 2012-2016 vintage, without all the unnecessary and over-complicated tech that make new cars so terrible. My wile will definitely want something no more than a couple years old - new, and the way prices look, it'll be a new Volvo, to replace the old Volvo. Of course, based on what I've said above, you can imagine I might worry that new Volvos are not old Volvo.
I guess we all look for different things in a vehicle.
punkinhead76@reddit
For sure, not everyone wants tech…but the dealers know a younger buyer probably is, and can many times be swayed to pay too much for it….new Volvos are super nice but you’re right I’m unsure that they’re as reliable as they used to be.
SSNs4evr@reddit
I've always bought Ford, and have always been happy. Our current Volvo was only considered because of the Ford affiliation (don't judge me 😃). I was excited when the new Ford Maverick was introduced, as I was thinking on replacing my work truck with a Maverick hybrid. I built one on the Ford website, and optioned it how I wanted it, and it came to $26.7k. Now I knew it would be a wait - I have a personal rule about NEVER buying first model year, and I usually have bought a couple years old, instead of new. But Holy crap! For awhile anyway, you couldn't find a used Maverick for under $40k.
And the other popular new models? Jeez! $25k dealership markups on Broncos? Good luck getting a return on that purchase. One could argue that vehicles are never good investments, but there's nothing good about $25k over MSRP. They'll never get that back on a sale or trade-in.
punkinhead76@reddit
The maverick is a super cool truck option but yeah finding a low priced one without being fully special ordered can be tough. My uncle (retired contractor) has one and seems to really like it….dealer markups are absolutely insane on many models, you’re correct about that! Gotta find that rare dealer that doesn’t do them I suppose.
semianondom101@reddit
Avoid the cx5 if it has a 2.5l engine, the cylinder heads split down the middle randomly due to casting issues. Newer crv's have transmission problems. Rav 4's the way to go, avoid 2013-2015 though, they had a software issue that would cause the torque converter to burn up. Dealer would replace the converter, only for the trans to fail a year or two later.
Musician-Able@reddit
The question is whether the used car market will be the same I'm 5 yrs. That said, if you need a car, buy new and plan to hold on to it for a long time. Used supply for in demand cars is still limited. Or buy something less in demand and wait it out.
scrappybasket@reddit
Wages haven’t kept up with cost of living so new cars are unaffordable to most which increases the demand for used cars. Increased demand increases prices
1998TJgdl@reddit
My wife was in the market for a 4 runner
SafetyMan35@reddit
OP, we just purchased a new vehicle in the same category, looked at the Mazda and CRV. Take a look at the Kia Sportage, I was extremely surprised by everything and it hit every one of our needs.
dcgregoryaphone@reddit
The best value vehicles are reliable but not well known as reliable, used, that you can rapidly pay off and then keep alive for a really long time. In my opinion, while they're good reliable vehicles, the ones you have picked are not the best value, specifically because everyone knows they are reliable and they are cheaper when they've accumulated miles (but not enough cheaper for me to be excited about their value).
PaulClarkLoadletter@reddit
In the US economy prices are only allowed to go up (save for gasoline) so pandemic pricing is here to stay. When you buy new you’re paying MSRP. When you buy used you’re paying a little less than MSRP. Used inventory is still low and trades are getting more money to incentivize you to trade in sooner.
reditor75@reddit
Dude, get out of here, this sub is infested with those exact cars you mentioned.
Other brands are just as reliable 😁
averagemaleuser86@reddit
Because sellers are still stuck on covid prices. They prob bought during covid when prices were jacked and they don't want to take that big of hit now that prices are coming back down. I buy and sell and this, so far, has been the absolute worst year for me. I used to be able to buy early 00s model civics with blown head gaskets for $500 all day, fix and resell for $2500 same day I listed it. Now... people are wanting $2500 for the same car in 2024 with a blown head gasket and they aren't budging on price. It's rediculous.
PageRoutine8552@reddit
That's correct, assuming you can order a new one without dealer markup, add-ons you don't want, and no excessive waiting time.
Supply issues led to the inflated market, to the point it was impossible to buy a car at MSRP (particularly Toyotas). Right now it seems to be a standoff between dealers and buyers.
bev_and_the_ghost@reddit
Yeah, I’m wondering if OP is comparing used prices to listed base prices from the manufacturer rather than actual OTD offers from dealers.
ImTinyRiiiick@reddit
They dont
MaverickActual1319@reddit
because new cars kinda suck
MarkGaboda@reddit
Markets change and the desire for gas powered vehicles may not be as high in 5 years as they are currently inflated too. Like all bubbles this one too will pop.
sweetrobna@reddit
This was true a few years ago but not really any more. It does depend on the specifics though. For a rav4, unless you are buying a plug in hybrid a used car is still a good bit cheaper. A 2 year old ford escape is about 30% less than a new one.
Look on cargurus or from other brand dealers and not just the asking price of the same brand dealer, they want to push people to buy new cars.