Friends, family and visas aside, if you could simply choose between living in the UK and Canada, which would you choose and why?
Posted by Gizmosia@reddit | AskUK | View on Reddit | 52 comments
I'm assuming that with 1.7 million people subscribed, there must be a few with some experience in Canada.
What do you love best about the UK as a society? What drives you crazy and could tempt you to look elsewhere?
Healthcare, economy, working conditions, safety, education, opportunity, culture, public transportation, financial system, feelings of belonging to a community, proximity to other countries you're interested in, people's views, etc.
Would love to hear your thoughts on what matters to you.
rizozzy1@reddit
I’ve always thought Canada would be a great place to live. Unto the last few years I’ve met a few Canadians holidaying, either here or in Europe.
Sadly after speaking to them it’s put me off. On top of the cost of living and annual leave, they all complained about immigration. To a level which made me quite uncomfortable. I know it’s not a true reflection of the entire country, but they were all very very racist, which isn’t my thing at all.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Oh, I'm quite surprised. I was saying to someone else, that Canadians (in my experience) aren't opposed to immigrants, but immigration has been a problem because the government opened the flood gates with no forethought to infrastructure like doctors and housing. Now, it's a really, really bad situation. It's kind of funny because (as one example), my neighbours are longer-term immigrants from India and think the immigration has to stop. I go out on a limb assuming they're not racist against Indian people (the two biggest groups have been Indians and Chinese).
rizozzy1@reddit
I was really taken aback too. I didn’t expect it.
Each time it’s happened they’ve randomly brought up the subject.
It was mainly against Indians,I won’t repeat what they were saying. But it really wasn’t pleasant, and made me quite uncomfortable.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
That sucks. Sorry to hear that. There's always going to be some, but it's never acceptable.
rizozzy1@reddit
Yeah it was a shame, as all of them seemed lovely and normal till they brought up the immigration subject.
It also cheesed me off that they seemed to think because I’m white British and they were white Canadian it was fine to be racist and that I’d agree with them.
Intelligent_Water_79@reddit
I'm a Brit that emigrated to Canada 20+ years ago.
Born and raised in Finchley, London
I love visiting London, it's so much more vibrant than Vancouver. Also, while both Vancouver and London are very diverse, London shares better. Simply put, you go into a Chinese restaurant in London and everybody's there. You go into a Chinese restaurant in Vancouver, and it's mostly Chinese people. .... exception is Sushi and some Indian restaurants and the downtown core.
That said, no, Maybe things have changed, but form what I see, not enough. I wouldn't go back. Getting attacked for simply being on the street at 11PM, dealing with nasty, violent people on a weekly basis, watching blatant racism happen on the streets. And then the class system and everybody seeming to be posing and trying to fit a social niche of some kind or another.
And then the scenery. Yes, city culture is way better in London, but getting out into truly stunning scenery is impossible. In Vancouver, it's whenever I have a free couple of hours.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Very interesting. I think culture is a big draw, including Europe. Is all of London that violent? I thought it was certain pockets. I mean, in Toronto, there are places I would never go unless I had to, but Toronto is pretty safe.
I don't understand the class system at all. Are you really held back? It almost sounds like the caste system in India or something. What would happen to someone who's never lived there? Do they get "classified"? ;)
Intelligent_Water_79@reddit
these are questions for Brits living in Britain
In most areas, no, it's not like your gonna get beaten up walking down the street every day. But as a young man, there were always people around who you had to be afraid of and were more than willing to intimidate and threaten at the slightest offence. Then the blatant racism (I'm white but watching people be blatantly racist and knowing if I spoke out I'd be beaten senseless was horrible)
Just a lot of really nasty people.
Canada ain't perfect by any means, but people are way more civil
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Yes, that's one thing I have been concerned about. I think that people in the UK sort of accept it as a fact of life that doesn't generally bother them, but it would be hard to adjust to.
Intelligent_Water_79@reddit
you live in Canada?
scare_crowe94@reddit
I hate a lot of things, but that’s me just being British.
I love the culture of music and fashion we’ve had on the world.
I love that we have news outlets like channel 4 with there not so obvious tongue and cheek of criticism, shows like HIGNFY.
I like we have traditions unique in execution like Glastonbury.
I love that we have a football league that’s amongst the most competitive in the world.
I love our pub culture, I love our cohesion of different cultures from around world moving here generations ago and bringing delicacies or being accommodated and wanting to start a new a life here.
I like that although the Spanish and French hate us, they’re like siblings who always fight and we’re not that different.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Multiculturalism is a huge thing in Canada. Sounds like the UK has had a bit of that going on, too.
How would you describe pub culture? What does that mean to you?
Swimming-Proposal-83@reddit
The UK is incredibly diverse, like Canada.
But the UK’s public discourse around politics, immigration etc. is 100x more healthy than in Canada, which has gotten much worse in the past 10 years.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Could be. There has been an unbelievable influx of immigrants the last few years. Everyone is good with immigrants, but it was done without planning for infrastructure. There are nowhere near enough doctors or places to live. So, things are changing rapidly. But, I agree, people don't blame immigrants, just the government that opened the floodgates without thinking it through.
Swimming-Proposal-83@reddit
Bro, you seem like a pretty normal open minded person and you’re buying into the anti-immigrant rhetoric, whether you see it or not.
Immigrants are a NET BENEFIT to the Canadian economy, meaning they pay more on taxes than they take out in benefits.
Lack of doctors and housing is due to government underfunding, not immigration. A large portion of your healthcare system is supported by immigrants (I would bet new arrivals on average work in health care than born Canadians).
Recent immigrants also are poorer than born Canadians, so not exactly snatching up prime real estate. You just need to build more houses. That should be a win for everyone as it stimulates the economy. Granted, this should have started 15 years ago when borrowing was cheap (Harper and Trudeau are guilty along with the provincial governments). Also, your urban sprawl is terrible. Planning in Ontario is gross. Building high rises in Toronto is basically seen as the devil to homeowners in Toronto, but a necessary solution.
These problems exist on a similar scale in the UK. NHS waiting times massively up, housing in London out of reach for even high earning professionals etc.
Unfortunately, your media has been pushing this narrative for years now and people who wouldn’t normally hold these views have become so accustomed to it that they somewhat believe it.
AsianOnee@reddit
Make money in London and retire in Canada. They got new stuff even in smaller cities like Montreal while you get nothing new in Brimingham or Manchester. They got metro which works fast. The street and shopping centre in UK are all broken into pieces. While everything is still expensive as fuck, you would like to walk down to a street where is relatively cleaned. But moving there you need to think about career as well. Canada may not be offering much.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Yeah, like I was saying, Montréal is a great city in a lot of ways, but the health care system is terrifying. Maybe it will get fixed over the next few years.
Browbeaten92@reddit
Canadian from Toronto, but spent half my life in the UK (London and Scotland). It really does depend what you want in life. I've just come back from a trip to Montreal which I love.
I think if you are really outdoorsy there's a good case for Canada, particularly outside of major cities. Britain is a more cohesive culture though, and if feeling a part of society is important to you then UK wins hands down. Canada is definitely a bit more live and let live and follow your own path.
What people say about cost of living and holidays is all true. Both nationalities are more than welcome in each other's countries. I think life stage and where in Canada you are thinking is important. Lots of terrible bits of both countries, but Toronto Vs London, Surrey Vs Oakville, Manchester vs idk, Vancouver, or Barrie vs Huddersfield. These things matter as there is huge regional variation. Small town Canada is not very appealing, small town Britain is often very nice. Conversely some British cities are dumps, some Canadian ones too but I'd say less so.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Thanks for the unique point of view. Montreal is great, just the health system is currently unworkable, which is strange considering the high taxes, but I don't make the rules.
I would like to feel a sense of belonging again. Used to as a kid, but now everything is pretty everybody for themselves and impersonal.
Great info, thanks.
Agreeable_Fig_3713@reddit
Is still stay in Scotland. My heritage and my culture is here. My community is fantastic and it’s a wonderful place to raise kids. The cost of living is so much less and I can’t fucking stand Canadas heat.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
I guess rediscovering my culture would be very interesting. I don't really identify as anything here. Funny, most people complain about the cold in Canada. For me, it's almost the differential. It can range 70ºC in one year. Crazy.
holytriplem@reddit
Oh hell no. Apart from nature, I just don't see what it has going for it. The salaries might be better than the UK but they're still considerably lower than the US and there are just fewer opportunities overall
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
What kinds of opportunities? You feel there is more going on in the UK economy?
holytriplem@reddit
The UK has twice the population of Canada and doesn't have a country with 10 times its population draining all its skilled workers
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Yes, that is a thing. Canada would be a fantastic place if we weren't constantly influenced by the cost of healthcare in the US (drawing personnel away) and they're obsession with taxes (leading people here to think their taxes are high rather than fairly low-normal for UK/EU/AUS/NZ).
frankieramps@reddit
I choose Canada for now because I love the lifestyle I have here - I have an outdoorsy job and appreciate the clear 4 seasons (although even that’s changing) I live in a relatively unpopulated area, I am near all kinds of lakes and mountains and it’s absolutely gorgeous. Cost of living - for me at least - is not high. And fizzy drinks still taste good on the rare occasion I want one.
What I miss when I come back to the UK - trains. Fish and chips. Being able to go to the seaside within a reasonable drive, not 4 hours. The general ‘culture’ things everybody who grew up in the UK knows and you can comment on and joke about that I can’t here. Greggs and bakeries being everywhere that aren’t fancy patisseries. Pies. I definitely did not take advantage of living so close to mainland Europe and so whilst here, I make sure to travel as much here and in the states as I can. With my 3 weeks of paid holiday…
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Thanks for all the info.
I was actually specifically wondering about trains. Seems people in the UK complain a lot about trains, but you miss them. Why is that? Is the rail network there more extensive, cheaper, a better experience...?
Do you think a British-Canadian would be welcomed in the UK as well as you were welcomed in Canada? How was that experience? Was moving over difficult?
frankieramps@reddit
Having never lived anywhere else, I just took trains for granted. I hear a lot of complaints now about pricing and stuff but as a non-driving student in the north I used to be able to hop on a - sometimes rickety - train and usually get where i wanted to go. We have no passenger trains here outside of the major cities. And buses only in the biggest towns. It’s all about driving.
I think Canadians are very welcome in the UK are they not? More so than Americans. With the support throughout the wars and the commonwealth and their general friendly stereotype.
I was welcomed in a ‘why would you move here?!’ Kind of way. Because I’m in a small town, in the only French speaking province, I’m a bit of an oddity, but I like it. I found it pretty easy to assimilate, medical system works about the same, perhaps better? post office, supermarkets, fast food, DVLA equivalent, all fairly simple to navigate.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Hold the phone. You're in Québec and you feel the healthcare system works like the NHS? Isn't it nearly impossible to see a doctor there? I thought that with the NHS, you could pretty much get a family doctor with a phone call or two and see them easily?
I have heard that Canadians are often mistaken in the UK for Americans who are currently not as welcome as one might have thought, but I'm not sure.
That is an interesting choice of destination for you. Québec is a fantastic place, but I've been quite concerned about the healthcare.
frankieramps@reddit
I’ve had no problems with healthcare where I live…after the 4 years of waiting to get a GP that is…I am currently dealing with a chronic medical issue that started out quite urgently and I was seen rapidly by various drs and hospital departments and have been issued timely, regular follow ups. I know this isn’t the case for everyone though!
The NHS still can have long waiting times for scans, procedures etc. I think it’s easy to get your initial GP appointments but after that it can be long? Really depends on the diagnosis.
That might be for being mistaken for Americans but just tell people. The accent would be brought up quite quickly I reckon if you got talking to someone.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
I was wondering about that. I've never personally met an American I didn't like, but I gather a lot of other people have. There is a different perception, then of Canadians? More welcoming? We're (personally) pretty quiet, unassuming people.
falling_figs@reddit
GP access in the UK seems to be a bit of a lottery, some surgeries are much better than others, but your perception of it is definitely not the case any more.
My surgery is ranked the worst in the county I live in and it is difficult to see a doctor, but you can normally get some form of response from a medical professional when you need it (e.g visit a nurse, email/text from a doc). If you want to see your usual doctor (I’m not sure this concept is really a thing anymore) and schedule an appointment you may have to wait for many weeks.
Neverreadthemall@reddit
Yeah definite lottery. My GP at the minute is great. I can call in the morn and talk to a doc that day if it’s an emergency, or get an appointment within the next few days or weeks if it’s not. Or if I don’t want to call, I can fill in an online form and hear back within 48h. But my last GP was one of those everyone calls at 8am for same day appointments and future appointments don’t really exist ones. It was a real pain.
saywherefore@reddit
I have spent time in both Montreal and the Vancouver area. I wouldn’t dream of living in the latter, it’s far too much like the USA with big trucks, suburban sprawl and drive throughs. The landscape is nice but so is Scotland. Montreal I really liked, it felt very continental European but with the bonus of English as one of the primary languages.
All in all, I have no great desire to live there.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
If you don't like suburban sprawl, how would you describe what the UK has instead?
Don't go telling Quebeckers that English is a primary language in Montréal. They wouldn't like that very much. ;)
Thanks for responding.
saywherefore@reddit
In general in the UK as you move out from the centre of an urban area the housing stays at reasonably high density, and then it stops. In my experience of the Pacific Northwest you can drive for hours through low density housing.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Ah, I see. That sounds more appealing.
Regular-Ad1814@reddit
Myself and wife were considering the move a few years ago. Ultimately we decided it was not for us.
The 2 main deciding factors were:
Cost of living was far too high so moving there after building equity in a flat here would mean we would go back to renting a tiny flat with no hope of home ownership. If I was leaving uni and looking for first second job in career this would be a different calculation.
Holiday allowance/paid time off (PTO) is absolutely horrific. IRIC it is 10 days per year and you have to accumulate it before you can take it (i.e. you need to work an entire year before you get credited with 10 days holiday). Tbh this was the primary deciding factor.
Ultimately we realised we would have a better quality of life staying in Scotland and using 2 weeks of holiday per year visiting Canada each year if we wanted to and we'd be both better off financially and with more holidays still to take. Had we moved to Canada we wouldn't have really had any time to actually enjoy the place so what's the point.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Thanks for your opinion. Cost of living has become indescribable. In most places there is no official PTO, but many people have what you describe. It can grow to 5 weeks, but after a decade or something.
I'm interested in the idea of being better off financially in Scotland. Many want to go to Canada for the higher salaries. You feel the UK provides a better standard of living despite the (somewhat) higher taxes and lower salaries?
Regular-Ad1814@reddit
Yeh and that is the thing why go and lose guaranteed 5 weeks holiday. The whole having or build it over years is just awful to as I am a job hopper every 3-4 years.
It depends. Had we moved to Canada we would have moved to BC or Vancouver North Shore. The cost of housing was astronomical. I could have achieved a good salary working in tech but wife would potentially take a bit of a cut as her profession relates to regional laws so would need to retrain in Canadian regulations and take a few steps down to do that. Also, we were 7 years into our careers and in management positions with a flat we owned in Edinburgh for 3 years so a decent bit of equity built up. Ultimately it was a choice between more or less starting over and losing 7 years of progress and ending up back at square 1 having to build our savings for a property etc.
Edinburgh is not exactly low cost of living but it is much more reasonable than London and my wife and I both have jobs that pay closer to London salaries so we are earning above average for Edinburgh which means we can have a super comfortable life already. If we were earlier in our career or struggling every month anyway then the coat of living issue would not be a consideration in our decision.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Thanks, makes sense.
frankieramps@reddit
i was not prepared for the sheer lack of holiday days and that first year without is just cruel.
Regular-Ad1814@reddit
I nearly cried when I found this out tbh. If I am being honest this was the real tipping point for me. I work super hard but need regular holidays otherwise I'd just want to top myself. What is the point in life if you don't have any time to enjoy it.
frankieramps@reddit
I’m through that first year now so I get, with provincial holidays, 23 days a year. Still not great but manageable.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Plus, you lose it if you change jobs...
happybaby00@reddit
Canada outside of hiking is the UK and combined but worst of both lol.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Really, so you think it's similar? I didn't quite get "combined but worst of both"? Might be an expression I'm not familiar with, sorry. You basically mean Canada is like the UK, but worse...?
happybaby00@reddit
It has the worst aspects of both countries. If you wanna immigrante you gotta be all in on a countries ethos imo. UK has safety structures such as the NHS and other public services in exchange for a higher tax and lower salary than America.
America is the place to make money. Canada is the worst of both mentalities, high tax but not European level of public services, less PTO and they want you working American level hours with a lower salary 😂
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Yes, I think you're dead on. For me, it comes down to the bureaucracy of the provinces eating up tax money rather than using it for programs.
Off the cuff, you think tax is higher in Canada or the UK for the middle class? I'm getting the feeling it might actually be lower in the UK...
You feel good about the NHS and services in general in the UK? I always hear about the Conservatives cutting welfare and so on. Do things still work well compared to Canada?
FelchChugger900@reddit
I love having Europe on my doorstep. I'd stick with the UK over Canada.
Gizmosia@reddit (OP)
Thanks. That would be a big bonus. Some people like the proximity of the US to Canada, but mostly for shopping or someplace warm to go in the winter for a bit.
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