Business end of a Russian Tu-22M Backfire at full afterburner

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maximum_pizza@reddit

on its way to bomb hospitals and playgrounds

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Pritchard89-TTV@reddit

Took the words out of my mouth...

I used to love some Russian aircraft designs, and now I'm just filled with disgust when I see them

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They're military aircraft. Unfortunately, that is exactly what they're built for. You can appreciate the aircraft and engineering behind it without condoning the activities it partakes in. That's why we're allowed to enjoy German WWII warbirds today despite the atrocities the nation they were fighting for did.

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fuishaltiena@reddit

That's why we're allowed to enjoy German WWII warbirds today

A bit of time has to pass after atrocities before you can look at something horrible like that and say "Wow so cool, super neat."

For all we know, that particular bomber could be en-route at this very moment with bombs which will blow up a children's hospital. They've done it already this year.

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Future_Cause4782@reddit

Ok, let’s try: I can appreciate the engineering and aesthetics of the TU-22M, except from 1987-88 (Afghanistan), 2008 (Georgia), 2017-2021 (Syria), and 2022+ (Ukraine); and any other period of conflict (read: atrocities) that I may have committed the grave sin of forgetting.

Seriously, how many qualifiers do you need to parse a statement that any reasonable person would understand? What’s wrong with your mind?

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fuishaltiena@reddit

My point is that you shouldn't praise murderers while they're actively murdering.

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aviation-ModTeam@reddit

This sub is about aviation and the discussion of aviation, not politics and religion.

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aviation-ModTeam@reddit

This sub is about aviation and the discussion of aviation, not politics and religion.

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Jerrell123@reddit

Unfortunately American and European designs have been used for similar purposes.

They’re weapons of war, the machine doesn’t discriminate between the pilot’s intentions.

Ethiopia used their F-5 Tigers to drop bombs over separatists, often indiscriminately, during their various conflicts in the 20th century.

USAF F-4 Phantoms and F-105 Thunderchiefs dropped napalm and white phosphorus on many villages and hamlets; including friendly villages due to blue-on-blue, like is pictured in the infamous photo of the burned girl. B-52s carpet-bombed Haiphong and Hanoi.

Iran also used the F-4 to put down insurrections throughout the 1980s, killing plenty of civilians.

That’s just US designs. The French had much fewer export restrictions, and used their own jets for atrocities in their own Air Force. They sold jets to Libya, and to South Africa during their Apartheid regime.

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zeissikon@reddit

Wrong France never sold jets to Libya ; it used Mirage F1 against Libyan Migs in Tchad and Rafales during the Libyan war.

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BroadStreetElite@reddit

Soviet Designs were used by repressive regimes throughout the Global South for decades before anything happened in Ukraine.

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AdriftSpaceman@reddit

That's true for all military hardware. All.

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BroadStreetElite@reddit

Exactly it seems weird to say you can't appreciate something because it's killed innocent people, killing people is what it was designed to do.

And Ukrainians use the same Soviet technology against the Russians, I'm sure Ukrainians worked in the design bureaus.

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fuishaltiena@reddit

Ukrainians aren't bombing kindergartens and hospitals, so it's not quite the same.

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BroadStreetElite@reddit

I mean Ukrainian history didn't begin in 1991. The Red Army did some reprehensible shit during WWII, everyone did, that's the point. Reddit has such a hard on for categorizing everything as black and white.

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fuishaltiena@reddit

Current war is super black and white. Ukraine didn't invade russia, russia invaded Ukraine unprovoked. There's no debate about it, it's an illegal attack, completely senseless.

And it's not a war, it's genocide. Deportation of children, mass murder of civilians, actively taking out civilian infrastructure, hitting hospitals?

And then chumps say "Look at this russian plane that has killed a few dozen people yesterday, isn't it cool? Super cool."

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AdriftSpaceman@reddit

They have been doing that in Donetsk since 2014.

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fuishaltiena@reddit

No they aren't, that's shit russian propaganda. Donetsk is Ukrainian land, why would they bomb their own schools?

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Subject-Solution-604@reddit

I would like to see these be on fire. Best if it happens on the ground with no lives lost. But won’t really miss them in any way. Get sum F16s. Slava Ukraine.

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AdriftSpaceman@reddit

I understand people that have suffered it have suffered direct consequences of those to feel that way. I understand that. I have close friends and some relatives that were displaced, forcibly, under terrible circumstances by imperialistic behavior of country A and B. And I'm absolutely certain they and their direct descendents will never see military equipment from those responsible as nothing more than a tool for oppression and to cause despair.

I'm lucky enough to have never been under bombardment and I know that this is what allows me to see these things the way I do.

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dvornik16@reddit

Somehow you don't feel bad seeing F-15s and F-16s? They killed way more civilians and leveled more hospitals and schools than Russian planes this year.

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Drunkenaviator@reddit

Gonna need some proof on that one.

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dvornik16@reddit

GBUs don't drop themselves on Gaza

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Drunkenaviator@reddit

Ah yes, those terrorist bases full of "civilians".

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tobimai@reddit

Russians are just so stupid. They were on a rather good Way to get accepted by the world and then pull that bullshit.

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Dalnore@reddit

Ukraine also uses predominantly Soviet-designed planes to defend against Russia. Not Tu-22M though, Ukraine scrapped theirs in the 00s mostly for the cost of maintenance and the disarmament agreement with the US.

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TheEpicGold@reddit

Yep. I still love the designs, but I can't bring myself to love them when these exact planes bomb Ukraine.

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kimster7@reddit

This statement applies to almost every single piece of military equipment in the world, right?

Or is the intent to say this only applies to non NATO militaries?

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blackhaz2@reddit

Not all militaries in the world are as disgustingly criminal as Russia's.

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pinguisl@reddit

If you are from any of the NATO countries then let me tell you we do have more blood on our hands

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Reapercore@reddit

Are you Serbs still salty nato stopped a genocide?

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pinguisl@reddit

I’m Spanish and I couldn’t give less fucks about Serbians lmao

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Furaskjoldr@reddit

Hate to be that guy but Russia isn't doing anything the US hasn't also done in the last 30 years...

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ErB17@reddit

The US has destabilised entire regions.

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WillyWanka-69@reddit

All major ones are

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Rabenraben@reddit

How is argentina? Grüss den Reinhard von mir und halt die Ohren steif.

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AdriftSpaceman@reddit

Some are, arguably, worse. With very recent examples of that, too.

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maximum_pizza@reddit

nice try

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DAREALPGF@reddit

Like that isn't everything u.s. military aircraft have ever been used for

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discombobulated38x@reddit

Given the size of that bomber those are some truly huge engines.

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StormAdorable2150@reddit

Really huge engines with not alot of thrust.

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Fonzie1225@reddit (OP)

They are, some models actually share engines with the much larger Tu-160 (which uses 4 of them)

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FoxhoundBat@reddit

Not really. Only Tu-22M4 had Nk-32's and that was a Soviet era prototype that existed in a single unit as far as I remember.

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HumpyPocock@reddit

Correct RE: the Tu-22M4

However, appears the most recent upgrade program taking them up to the Tu-22M3M variant does include an upgrade to the Kuznetsov NK-32-02

As an aside, at maximum expansion the variable geometry convergent divergent nozzle on the NK-32 has an outer diameter of 1760mm (CHONK)

Human for Scale

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Misophonic4000@reddit

Unless that human is an absolute giant, the nozzle in the picture is not anywhere near 1.76m across... 🤔

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HumpyPocock@reddit

Hmm found one of him standing up on a ladder next to the nozzle.

Re-checking looks like 1700mm is also thrown around as the nozzle size.

Now that would be 5 foot 7 inches and a half arsed measurement would indicate he is ca. 5 foot 10 inches or so, whereas 1760mm would make him over six foot. Not sure, he doesn’t look 6 foot to me for whatever reason.

PS — more than happy to take a correction on that if anyone finds a better figure.

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Misophonic4000@reddit

Google served me an AI-enhanced reply to the question and said "the Tu-160's Kuznetsov NK-32 turbofan engines have a diameter of 1,460 millimeters (57 inches)", which seems to match the pictures quite well

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Bad_Karma19@reddit

Oh wow, have never seen blue burners before.

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dragonlax@reddit

No one is really sure why Soviet era planes have blue afterburners, but people think it has something to do with the metallurgical properties of the engine materials.

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neovb@reddit

One major reason is the type of fuel thats used, which is triethylborane based as opposed to JP-7 used in US fighters. Fun fact: the SR-71 used triethylborane for engine igniting because it's extremely ignitable when exposed to oxygen and JP-7 is is much harder to ignite.

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HammerTh_1701@reddit

Nope. TEB burns with a characteristic green flame, like all compounds with significant boron content.

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basssteakman@reddit

Western fighters don’t use JP-7, SR-71 isn’t a fighter, TEB burns green and it’s absolutely not a primary fuel given its extreme volatility. I can’t find a single reference for Soviet systems using it either.

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neovb@reddit

That was my mistake, meant to say JP-8 for current aircraft and JP-7 for the SR-71.

I also never said the SR-71 was a fighter, I was just stating a fun fact about the SR-71. And as far as I know the SR-71 did inject TEB into its engines to ignite the afterburner.

I suspect we will never know what exact fuels are used in Russian fighters, but it's absolutely possible that TEB is used specifically for afterburner and not as a primary non-after burner fuel.

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ManInTheDarkSuit@reddit

Wasn't TEB actually only used to light the engine, then light the afterburner? Otherwise SR-71 would have travelled around on pillars of green flame :)

From memory they had around 7 "shots" of it in the event of a unstart or another flameout event.

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Wolfhandz@reddit

Fuel is not the reason for the blue flame; Tu-22s and -160s have been burning South American Jet-A/JP-8 for years on deployment to places like Cuba et al and still emit the same blue flame. It’s to do with very high pre-burner temperatures from the engine turbine section; these motors run at incredibly hot EGTs and it turns the ignited fuel blue in the reheat section as it pushes upwards of 1600 degrees Celsius.

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Rattle_Can@reddit

what kind of metal are they using to keep the turbine blades intact?

or are they using exotic cooling methods?

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Wolfhandz@reddit

Titanium, but they were usually made for peanuts compared to comparable engines from the west. There is a reason Soviet-designed engines such as the NK-25, as impressive as its power levels are, have very low hours limitations between overhauls, and low hours life limited parts.

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Rattle_Can@reddit

very interesting

in terms of high EGT of soviet/russian jet engines - did that engine design philosophy not translate to fighter engines? (particularly Mig-29's belching sooty black exhaust trails, assuming high EGT will burn off the excess carbon and create cleaner exhaust)

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Appropriate-Count-64@reddit

I’m guessing they turned down the EGT to get a more reliable engine that could be stationed in the car east without needing a bunch of heavy engine maintenance

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Correct_Inspection25@reddit

The higher temps leading to more complete combustion correct? IE reds and yellows of a poorly balanced bunsen burner vent to fuel flow vs a blue/dark blue of a well balanced mix.

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madmartigan2020@reddit

Yes. Orange/yellow flames are a sign of incomplete combustion.

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ClosetLadyGhost@reddit

Blue flames are blueberry flavour.

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canttakethshyfrom_me@reddit

Yet it's raspberry in every pack of candy or soda.

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Feeling-Tutor-6480@reddit

You can only taste it once though

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Correct_Inspection25@reddit

The hottest hot sauce.

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HumpyPocock@reddit

One major reason is the type of fuel thats used which is triethylborane based as opposed to JP-7 used in US fighters.

No — no it’s not.

Triethylborane is famous for —

burning with a an bright green flame more or less being hypergolic with atmospheric oxygen ie. spontaneous ignition in air rather high toxicity incl. exhaust the fact it’s extremely corrosive

Kuznetsov NK-25 used in the Tu-22M3 and the NK-32-02 they’re upgrading to on the Tu-22M3M variant both burn kerosene.

IIRC Kerosene of the RT Fuel Grade per GOST 10227 is standard for military esp. supersonic aircraft in Russian service.

RE: blue afterburner — is generally believed to just come down to a leaner air fuel and much more complete combustion process thus resulting in far less soot in the exhaust as black body radiation from soot at those temperatures is in the yellow part of the spectrum and will overpower the otherwise blue flame hence minimal soot would equal blue flame.

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jaggi922@reddit

Doesn't the US use JP-8?

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No_Listen_1213@reddit

AF uses Jet A now. For more than a decade now

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neovb@reddit

I think the USAF still uses JP-7, but I could be wrong.

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CptSandbag73@reddit

Nope, USAF has been using JP-8 since the 70s.

JP-8 is just a military designation for Jet A with military standardized additives.

JP-7 was only used for the SR-71 and other specialized experimental aircraft.

The Navy, USCG ,and USMC use JP-5 for use on aircraft carriers, and to a lesser extent on shore, due to its much higher flash point.

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DankVectorz@reddit

USAF has used JP8 since 1995. The Navy uses Jp5 for shipboard use.

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DankVectorz@reddit

US and NATO have used Jp8 since the late 70’s

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tobimai@reddit

Ehh if Metal burning thats bad.

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in-den-wolken@reddit

Cobalt-fueled!

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StagedC0mbustion@reddit

lol absolutely not

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dragonlax@reddit

Feel free to tell us why then, since even a google search brings up conflicting information

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StagedC0mbustion@reddit

To say it’s due to the metallurgical properties implies it is burning itself up, ie an ablative engine. Airplane engines are not ablative and would not survive the life it needs to if that were the case.

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pborget@reddit

Runs on propane.

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KYHotBrownHotCock@reddit

Its russian i doubt it is that way

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Bad_Karma19@reddit

Apparently it's a known thing on this type of bird.

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oojiflip@reddit

A lot of military fighters will have blue burners when at very high altitude, or when transitioning from afterburner to mil power

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cbarrister@reddit

Would be cooler if they didn't use it for leveling power plants in Ukraine.

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awmdlad@reddit

Those are legitimate targets…

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fuishaltiena@reddit

Children's cancer hospital is not a legitimate target. Civilian infrastructure is not legitimate target. The whole fucking war is not a legitimate target because russia invaded unprovoked.

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awmdlad@reddit

So… railways, ports, communications centers, airports, bridges, highways, all of those are illegitimate despite damn near every nation seeing them as such?

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fuishaltiena@reddit

In an illegitimate war? Yes, why the fuck is this even a question?

If US just went and bombed the fuck out of Canada right now, would you say "Well that was a power plant, so this is nice and cool, let's applaud their high quality bombs?" You wouldn't think "WHY are they killing millions of Canadians?"

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ncoremeister@reddit

While you're right about a hospital not being a legitimate target, you are wrong about everything not being a legitimate target since the war is illegal. There is a jus ante bellum and a jus in bello. The first says when a war is legal or not, second says what is legal in war. But the two usually don't touch each other.

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fuishaltiena@reddit

Yeah, nope.

You can't just go and murder a million people for made-up reasons, and occupy their land and say "Mine." You just can't.

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Orangey82@reddit

It's not about power plants specifically being bad to target, it's about the whole war in general being bad and pointless

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That1guy827@reddit

If it was a “war” remember?

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oliver-peoplez@reddit

for non-nuclear power plants (nuclear plants are not valid tragets), you have to consider their contribution to belligerent war efforts, and if it went to and international criminal court to be cried as a crime during war, the trial would likely center around arguing the extent to which the plant contributed to the war effort.

if the plant supplied power to a major population center, the it's harder to argue in favour of it being a valid target. however, if the plant powered a bunch of other valid targets, then it's easier to argue in favour of the plant itself being a valid target.

so they might be a valid target, but it's not cut and dry.

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awmdlad@reddit

That’s true, but the suppression conventional power plants at the very least would disrupt logistics, divert Ukrainian reserves, hinder communications networks, and cause general unrest.

Short of hitting the cities directly, it’s one of the best ways to hit Ukraine’s war industry.

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oliver-peoplez@reddit

it being one of the best ways to hit Ukraine's war industry doesn't make it a valid target.

you can not consider the plants' connection to the war effort in isolation. if the plant powers massive civilian infrastructure like whole cities and their hospitals etc, that would lend credence to an argument of it being a war crime to attack. it's hazy though.

something making sense strategically does not make it a valid target, you must consider non-combatant consequences - its the law, and for a reason. rules of war exist to limit its brutality, and impingeing unnecessary suffering and death on a population center for the sake of cutting off power to a factory making quad copters, or repairing tanks, instead of just striking them directly is easily categorised as unnecessary brutality I'd argue.

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awmdlad@reddit

By “hitting cities directly” I’m referring to targets within urban areas. Due to the nature of power plants, you can’t exactly put them downtown, so they’re located at least some distance away from the center of a city.

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candf8611@reddit

Powering up to bomb a cancer hospital

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Dry-Marketing-6798@reddit

Looks like it runs on natural gas lol. From a Westerner, I grudgingly admit it is an impressive looking beast.

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africanbriton@reddit

Beautiful jet

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medium-rare-chicken@reddit

Makes me wonder if Russia has bombers like this and the Tu-95 , why aren’t they using them in the Ukrainian conflict? Or are they ?

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Speckwolf@reddit

They are using them extensively every day to employ cruise missiles and other stand-off weapons.

The Russians even lost two Tu-22 in the war against Ukraine so far. One was destroyed by a Ukrainian drone in the ground at Soltsy-2, another was lost in the Stavropol region (according to Ukraine, it was shot down with a SAM, the Russians denied that).

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Fonzie1225@reddit (OP)

They are to a limited extent, but almost entirely in a very cautious deployment pattern and with standoff weapons that don’t put them in harm’s way.

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an_older_meme@reddit

That would be the non-business end.

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Fonzie1225@reddit (OP)

depends what your business is 😉

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an_older_meme@reddit

Not getting killed by it.

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Travelingexec2000@reddit

aka Sidewinder magnets

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MSzero12345@reddit

They aren't used anywhere near the front so no.

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Hyperious3@reddit

F-22 going full lurk mode 300km deep in supposed "radar saturated airspace"

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Mustang_Dragster@reddit

“Finally some good fucking food” -Pac 3 missile

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Hyperious3@reddit

"Goddamn that's the biggest IR hit I've ever seen" -AIM-9X

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herodotus69@reddit

Fox 2!

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tao_in_ruins@reddit

Looks even better blown up by Ukraine

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Shackletainment@reddit

A very cool aircraft, but would look much cooler burning in a crater.

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FighterJock412@reddit

Tomcat prey!

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Mao_Kwikowski@reddit

Fox 2!

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Phase_Dance@reddit

Reference to Jane's F 15 game ?

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Mao_Kwikowski@reddit

It’s the codeword US fighters will say over the radio when they shoot an Infrared Seeking Missile.

Fox2! Splash one T-22!

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Ollieisaninja@reddit

I'm pretty sure there is or was a defensive gun on the back of this thing.

And a version of that gun was sent into space for experiments, too. I don't think it was on the Mir space station, but one of their earlier space station attempts.

'Richter' something was it's nickname I recall.

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senorpoop@reddit

You can see the cannon and the corresponding radome just above the engine nozzles, in the base of the fin.

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definetlynotamonkey@reddit

Yeah, GSH-23, only cannon to be fired in space. Kind of an interesting design choice on a supersonic bomber.

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Pooch76@reddit

What is the largest diameter internal jet engines ever made?

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MyAnusBleeding@reddit

F-15 Eagle and AIM-120 have entered the chat

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Koaspp@reddit

Honestly besides major breakthroughs in science, health and social justice, aren't fighter jets one of the coolest human creations?

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srv340mike@reddit

I wonder how much alcohol you could squeeze out of it. I bet not as much as TU-22

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Backspace346@reddit

Unironically yes, as far as i know, air conditioning systems use alcohol. There's even a joke that when changing it aircraft mechanics drink it instead of just throwing away, "массандра" i think it was

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Silver996C2@reddit

There’s a YouTube video on this with pilots shutting down the aircon to save the alcohol for the ground crew to have a party with. In the video they’re drinking it right on the ramp.

I heard a story years ago that a far east commander was tired of having aircraft down all the time because of a shortage of alcohol. So he wanted to replace it with methyl hydrate. It was pointed out to him that this would have severe health consequences for his troops if they drank it. ‘Then put a poison sign on the tanks’. The deputies were worried no one would believe the signs or it would be sold to civilians. So a compromise was made: they put a chemical in the alcohol supply that would only make you ill and not kill you or make you blind. That came back to haunt the commander when most of the flight crews, ground crews and their families all were sick and the squadron was down for many days. The commander was relieved soon after. Alcoholism was deemed a lesser evil than aircraft down.

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