Why are American and European views on reliability that much different?

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Teledildonic@reddit

It's because most of our VWs come from Mexico, and their QC is not up to par to the German plants.

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Jonnnnnnnnn@reddit

My Atlas is built in Tennessee.

I think expectations / distance is also a factor, the US covers way more miles generally, as an ex UK person living west coast 200k mile cars are fairly common whereas in the UK they're unheard of.

But yes, I agree with OP, I've had plenty of discussion with americans claiming BMW / Porsche / VW are money pits as they break all the time and US built cars are much better (?), their engines are certainly less stressed making 50bhp per litre.

When we're talking about 200k in America we're talking 200,000 miles not 200,000 km.

I've got over a million and a half miles on four Priuses. That's 2.4 million kilometers.

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TCivan@reddit

Your wrangler doesn’t hurt me.

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FSCK_Fascists@reddit

you must have ducked as you went under.

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pvdp90@reddit

Idk man, my 04 wrangler gives me minimal headaches. Some things are failing on it now but it’s mostly stuff that’s expected to fail over time, like water pump, rubber items etc. mine has 160k miles on it and it lived its entire life in unforgiving desert climate, plus it has been offroaded in sand dunes frequently and hard.

Hold me! Never let go!

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banditorama@reddit

Well, I'd be a member of it. I bought a nice, low mileage, well-maintained Jetta diesel. It turned into a nightmare.

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tmchn@reddit

Here in Europe you can find parts for VW at every scrapyard, and most can fit in every Skoda/Seat/Audi

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opus666@reddit

It's not whether the parts can be found in the scrap yards or now. Having owned 3 VW and 2 Mazda, there definitely is a level of difficulty in servicing these parts between the two brands. It really doesn't matter if VW parts are not that much more expensive/difficult to find than Mazda parts. It's much more difficult to replace the VW bits than Mazda bits, not to mention the Torx/Triple square bits you need for VW vs the metric bits that suffice for Mazda.

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Thomas_633_Mk2@reddit

Mazda has started to use Torx bits too, the DJ Mazda2 (2015-present) seat has some in it. The older ones are a 9/16 inch hex you can take off with a standard socket set.

I live in Denver and folks mostly confuse my 1999 Polo wagon non-turbo diesel for your car. I mean I know why, but it does say polo on the back. Glad your mk4 is living up to its reputation.

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mini4x@reddit

1999 Polo wagon

Same. "Vladimer" (proudly from Yugoslavia, according to his name badge) likely came to this country to sell hugo's. He was also the manager of a Volkswagen dealership the owner of whom is a friend of a friend but Vlad kicked me off his lot after I pointed out they were pacious nature of the price of parts in his parts department.

I gave a Volkswagen Passat Wagon away because I wasn't going to buy one more part for it. When it didn't need any parts it was a great car but it's really not worth spending a million dollars to keep a Volkswagen Passat on the road.

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RallyVincentCZ75@reddit

Obviously this means Americans should just start importing all the old German built VWs from 1999 to prior (or 2000 prior, soon). Boom, reliable VWs in America.

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compu85@reddit

A factory in Mexico can install a faulty Bosch brake light switch just as well as a factory in Germany. I've owned VWs made in Mexico, Germany, Brazil, and the USA. The quality of the bodies was the same between them.

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Gwolf4@reddit

RunninOnMT@reddit

We do get the X1, my sister actually owned one for a while! But we again only got bigger engines in them if I remember correctly. I think hers had a 6-cylinder in it (she owned it a while ago, now they're all transverse and don't have 6-cylinder engines)

But the least powerful one you can buy new right now (in the US) has 248 hp.

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Type-21@reddit

That transverse X1 starts at 136 hp in Germany. It's a 1.5 liter 3 cyl with turbo called B38. There's also a detuned 122 hp version for Singapore because they have even higher displacement tax

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dissss0@reddit

It's changing now but traditionally Europe had a lot of diesels and a lot of manual transmissions, whereas North America was usually larger capacity petrol engines with automatic transmissions.

Take the Mk5 Golf - in Europe this would mostly have sold with the manual and 1.9/2l TDI but in North America the Jetta with the 2.5 and auto was the bigger seller.

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Snow_source@reddit

The ones that we did get in NA were hard to find, but lasted just as long as the ones in Europe.

I had a Mk4 Golf 3-door with the 5 speed and the 1.9 TDI.

The damn thing lasted until 355k miles with life to spare.

I don’t know if the U.S. got the 1.9 TDI.

The best thing to do would be to compare the engines most sold in the U.S. and to determine if those engines are more or less reliable than their European counter parts if built in Mexico.

I don’t like to generalize but European cars sold in the U.S. whether built in the Americas or in Europe, tend to be much less reliable than Honda or Toyota built in the Americas or in Japan.

I own a Honda CRV built in Mexico since new and it has 190k problem free miles.

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Pkock@reddit

Being built and QC'd in Germany certainly didn't save either of my B5's.

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max_power1000@reddit

B5 owner as well, I don't think I ever went into the shop without immediately booking a follow-up appointment for when the next box of replacement parts came in.

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Pkock@reddit

I had to drive my sister's lime green beetle for 2 months commuting to college while the Indy shop had my A4, and they eventually just gave it back and said they were sick of messing with it.

So I unloaded it and got Passat B5.5 wagon cause I'm stupid.

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Shiva-Kamini@reddit

Tbf. I live in Europe. Had a VW California and an VW Up. Both have had catastrophic flaws in there design that caused huge financial loss for us. Will never own a VW again. They're designed to fail.

If you're interested, The VW up rear arches allow water into the chassis and it rotted from the inside out. 5 year old car. VW california. The EGR valve melted into the engine and wrote off the engine.

I'd rather a horse and cart than another VW.

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Late-Ideal2557@reddit

Also we don't buy up diesels the same way Europe does

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Not true at all, 300.000km is the minimum to consider it at all, if it can pass atleast that without major engine problems, its a solid car, and if the whole generation of a model tends to do that, its a good model.

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ritz_are_the_shitz@reddit

Americans expect perfection in spite of poor maintenance, Europeans expect to not be stranded while following the maintenance schedule.

I say this as an American. Europeans just seem to understand that wear items exist and need replacing occasionally, and that doesn't make the car unreliable.

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bazbloom@reddit

Well ok, but there also seems to be a European mindset that accepts a larger group of assemblies as "wear items"...things that aren't actually wear items because they shouldn't have to be replaced frequently...water pumps, window regulators, coil packs, hpfp's, etc. There also seems to be a belief that a German car with 200k+ miles is durable and reliable even though almost every active component in the car has been rebuilt or replaced...The Car of Theseus if you will. It doesn't wash, and folks who have worked on cars know the difference between reliability and repairability. That's where the major divergence in mindset occurs.

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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

Yeah, this 100%. There's a lot of things we don't accept being a wear item, like for example, the damn rod bearings, lol

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I saw a guy complaining about the reliability of a 2016 Corolla with 150k miles because he had to replace brake pads and a battery.

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ducky21@reddit

It is truly astounding to me how people genuinely think that because their car needs maintenance items it's now a "bad car" that should be discarded.

These folks would have never lasted in '89 with an original Gameboy and a copy of Pokemon.

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Astandsforataxia69@reddit

Mean i had to like change a tyre on my corolla, it's literally undriveable

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Just simple economies of scale. Everyone here knows how to work on Golf’s. They are everywhere, parts are cheap, every village mechanic knows how to work on them.

Meanwhile few people drive Civic’s. Which means waiting weeks or months for expensive foreign parts. It is as simple as that. Every other reason is just a side issue, like whether your VW was built in Mexico, Hungary or Germany.

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Fulid@reddit (OP)

Thats true. A lot of people in this thread said that nobody wants to/know how to work on VWs. And that they are pain to reapair. But from my experience everybody knows how to work and "love" to work on VWs. And hate to work on French cars for example.

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Beni_Stingray@reddit

Its for different reason tho, german cars are often complicated, overengineered and the enginners who made them dont think one second about the mechanics and the work that has to be done.

Some parts that take 5min to disassemble on a japanese vehicle can turn into a 5h to 6h hours job because you have to take 50 other parts off before reaching the part you actually want to take out.

Most Americans absolutely prefer VW to French, British, or Italian cars. But they just aren't as reliable as the Japanese, especially Toyota and Honda. And in the US parts for Japanese cars are not more expensive than parts for VW. Parts for American cars are the least expensive of all, but they're not as reliable as the Japanese, either.

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delebojr@reddit

Parts for American cars are the least expensive of all, but they're not as reliable as the Japanese, either.

Fun fact, the most reliable used car brand that isn't Japanese is Buick. The funny thing is, Chevy is rated below average.

Secuter@reddit

Honda is doing poorly on the European market - their cars are often more expensive than their competition. In the Danish market, Honda is trying to do a push with their electric SUV, but otherwise they almost faded into obscurity.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

Absolutely not.

In the US, parts for Japanese cars, even semi-obscure ones, are obscenely plentiful.

For example: I used to live in a town of 6k people, and my car, an 11 year old AWD Infiniti G35x, needed a front wheel bearing. The fact that it was an AWD car needing a front bearing, meant it was a bit of an odd part.

The only parts supply place in town had a handful of them in stock that day.

This is a little outside of cars, but a decade or so ago I got to work in a company that made off-road construction equipment, and we sourced our engines from Cummins for U.S.-centric models and Deutz engines for Europe-focused vehicles. The engineers were BS'ing with a Cummins salesman at one point, and apparently one of the big things is that, while they're practically a religion in some truck circles in America, Cummins aftersales support in Europe was really terrible, with severe issues sourcing parts and service, leading to customer complaints of unresponsive part departments. When Deutz started supplying engines for models selling in the U.S., it was noticed that we ran into similar issues when their motors got imported.

While things like build quality in different regions can certainly affect the end user experience, I suspect that the spare part supply chains and accessibility of service to end users has a really big effect on how well a model is perceived as reliable or not, and different companies likely invest different amounts into different regions based on historical market share.

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praetor47@reddit

not a definitive answer, but some facts to consider

1) thanks to nonsensical laws and regulations, dirty diesel was significantly cheaper here in Europe than the rest of the world. diesel doesn't make that much sense for commuter cars. more maintenance work, more parts to fail, more filters and garbage etc etc... but the fuel was something like 50% of petrol for decades

2) VW is only considered reliable by people with rose tinted glasses (like here in the balkans where the average auto "enthusiast" doesn't know the difference between fwd and rwd, and (s)he'd take an audi a3 with a 2.0 tdi over a Yaris GR because the former is both a diesel and german, and everyone knows german engineering is the best in the world, lol). their electronics in particular have been a total shitshow for years and i've yet to talk to a "normal" enthusiast or a mechanic who doesn't consider them a PoS

3) americans have a strong DIY ethos, something very lacking here, so vehicles that make it easy to maintain and repair by yourself will be considered more reliable

4) german brands in the USA offer (pretty much) only the more premium options. you won't find poverty spec A klasse Mercs with the base TDI motors producing less HP than my farts

5) continuing from 4: prices, or more importantly, cost of ownership over a longer period of time. that's also a factor for perceived reliability, iirc

6) related to 3,4,5: parts availability

7) kms/miles driven: americans drive much, much more than the average european

that's just off of the top of my head

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LesseFrost@reddit

Cars aren't as necessary for life in Europe. They still are semi important to daily life but you can live a fully functional life without one in Europe, and you'll need one to keep an income in the USA.

It being more of a luxury, I can see higher maintenance cars being appreciated due to the people getting them being more dedicated to actually working on them and get those rose tinted glasses about them.

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praetor47@reddit

Cars aren't as necessary for life in Europe. They still are semi important to daily life but you can live a fully functional life without one in Europe, and you'll need one to keep an income in the USA.

huh? Europe is big place. not like the US, but big.

not every country is like Germany where every train is on time (here you're lucky if it arrives at all, lol. sometimes they're so late they send a bus instead), and not every city has a functioning, reliable, working infrastructure. or Denmark or Netherlands with a great biking infrastructure

not to mention the metric fuckton of people living in rural or similar areas who absolutely depend on personal transportation.

the main difference is that on average they'll all travel significantly less kms to visit family, go on vacations/road trips, for work. i could write a bit more on this topic, but i don't want to get political ;)

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moocowsia@reddit

On average Europe has a fuckton of rail options though compared to North America, even small little bitty towns in remote parts of Scotland frequently have rail services. I've been there and ridden on them, its great.

The US has entire states without passenger rail. Canada has all of about 3 rail corridors with passenger service.

You can't even take a passenger train between Calgary and Edmonton in Alberta, which are two wealthy cities of over 1M population, only a couple hundred km apart. It's nuts.

It's not like everyone around Europe has a project car, though

project cars and Europe are not on friendly terms :) modifying a car in most of europe is such a beaurocraticly and financially colossal pain in the ass it's just not worth it. it's mostly a horrible place for auto enthusiasts with such an interest

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Abelirno@reddit

To be fair it varies a lot depending on the European countries, here in Sweden or in Finland for example a lot of modifications are allowed. It's why you can see cars with triple the stock horsepower, fully caged etc. etc registered and completely street legal here

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Dud3_Abid3s@reddit

California too…LAPD pulled over my Texas plated Scatpack to question me about my cars modifications.

I’ve built 2 classic muscle cars, a slightly modified 1981 RX7, a heavily modified Mustang, and now a slightly modified Scat.

I’m 43 and I’ve never been pulled over by the cops regarding my modifications. I lucked out because I’ve kept it plated in Texas and said I was just here on business(lived here 2 years). They let me go but not after giving me a lecture on California emissions laws etc.

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Diesel has the torque much lower in the rev band, and has much more torque compared to an equal displacement turbo gasoline engine, it's completely different to drive

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takumidelconurbano@reddit

So? You don’t drive on torque, you need horsepower for that. And for the typical american commute on highways torque is not needed.

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Elvis1404@reddit

You pretty much drive on torque... It's much more important than horsepower if you are not performance driving. Torque makes start-stop driving and acceleration (you Americans always complain about short highway ramps...) much better

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Slideways@reddit

A diesel engine is going to have peak torque at a low rpm because that's the only option. You're not going to have a production turbodiesel that has its peak torque at 5000rpm.

Modern gasoline turbo engines have a plateau where boost is limited to keep torque from exceeding the gearbox rating. Lots of turbo gasoline engines reach this peak before 2000rpm, with many as low as 1500rpm.

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MurphysRazor@reddit

Good low end torque, lower horsepower. Strong flat torque curves, not speedy to reach peak rpm, and often a more limited rpm range too.

We have always liked low end torque in the US, but not at the cost of HP.

Turbo helped diesel reach more acceptable HP levels most importantly as far as daily drivers go.

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Kornaros@reddit

Well, they have the pick-up, but it is just that.

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Sindri-Myr@reddit

But turbo diesels punch above their class compared to similar displacement gasoline engines. People in Western and Northern European countries do like to tow trailers with the family car on vacation so something like a diesel wagon/crossover/SUV makes a lot of sense.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

They can tow with smaller vehicles due to trailer designs being different. European trailers have half the tongue weight that US trailers do, which means that you don't need near the payload capacity to be able to handle them. Downside is lower high speed stability, but trailer towing speed limits are much lower overseas.

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Oliveiraz33@reddit

Diesel engines produce more torque

Wrong!

Diesel produce more torque because the examples you see, have higher turbo pressure. But NA vs NA and turbo vs turbo at the same pressure, gasoline actually makes more torque.

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sps49@reddit

Diesels also produce a lot more particulate pollution, which was and is a serious concern in California and other areas of the USA.

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takumidelconurbano@reddit

As a mechanical engineer, even though the advantage of diesel engines you name are true, the disadvantages make it so they do not make sense for passenger cars unless some stupid laws are in place.

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jgold47@reddit

Just bought a VW diesel and thankfully it’s an older one with out all the hinkey DEF issues. Car drives great and I’m getting 30+ mpg around town and should hit 40+ on extended cruises. However, it’s higher mileage and is going to need an emissions piece replaced or removed and it’s absurdly expensive to do so.

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Astramael@reddit

americans have a strong DIY ethos, something very lacking here, so vehicles that make it easy to maintain and repair by yourself will be considered more reliable

And VW group products are horrible to work on. I am scarred for life by Audi maintenance.

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JediKnightaa@reddit

I hate how my Lexus is engineered like an Audi or BMW.

Want to do an oil change? Why you gotta buy 10 extra pieces to remove the oil

More extra random parts to take off

Not putting things in a consumer friendly place like you would see in a Toyota. Annoying af

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ConversationGlad1839@reddit

So you basically pay for an expensive Toyota that's difficult to work on. May I ask why you didn't just buy the Toyota? I swear they have the same interior options to upgrade to, to make it cozy like a Lexus

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Ran4@reddit

They do not. It's not even remotely comparable.

ConversationGlad1839@reddit

Thanks. I see a lot that could break & then I'd have to fix, so I like the basic models. I don't spend much time in my car though. I avoid driving as much as possible.

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yesrod85@reddit

The main advantage (besides Lexus having better attention to detail/build quality vs Toyota) is that the GS is a rear drive or AWD platform compared to the Toyota sedans all being FWD or AWD.

RWD is typically seen as better by enthusiasts.

The b58 and s58 (and probably other bmw engines) don’t have a dipstick. You can check the oil unless you can turn the car on, you can’t turn the engine on unless you have oil. This is partially Toyota but I’m sure goes a bit back to bmw but you have to drop the subframe on the Supra to replace the rear swaybar (probably not super uncommon but still a pain).

Dont get me wrong I love the b58/s58 and bmws in general, also loved my vws that I owned but shits a pain in the ass everywhere haha

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Astramael@reddit

Yea okay that’s fair. I dislike the digital oil level too.

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joshbro4@reddit

The N63 engine has entered the chat

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Astramael@reddit

Why you gotta do that to my PTSD?! sobs

That being said, I feel like the N63 was designed by baboons in general.

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275MPHFordGT40@reddit

Patrick you’re scaring him!

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yesrod85@reddit

The GS350 isn't particularly difficult to work on though. Yea you get more shielding and splash guards with Lexus, but they're easy to take off.

Audi/BMW aren't particularly hard to do oil changes on either. It's mechanical repairs where they're a nightmare. I'm that regard the Toyota 3.5 that's in your Lexus is pretty darn easy to work on, especially compared to Audi/BMW of the same era.

Step 1: put vehicle into service position

Service position: remove entire front of vehicle

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tobyhatesmemes2@reddit

I had an old, high mileage Subaru for years where I was able to figure out how to fix absolutely everything that went wrong on it. Replaced it with an old A7 and it’s really night and day. The triple-squares in particular have caused me some significant grief.

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Astramael@reddit

Yepppp…

VAG is definitely not the bottom of "our barr" which also has Ford and Dodge/Ram

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Another factor is that on average, TDI diesels are probably the most reliable diesels in Europe.

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shortcategory1389@reddit

Mechanics upcharge repair costs on European vehicles, even for simple repairs. For example, I recently changed the spark plugs on my 2019 Volvo and it only cost me $45 in parts and 15 minutes of my time.

It was just as easy as the Mazda I had when I was a college student.

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Iiari@reddit

Number 7 is absolutely key. The huge difference in miles driven. I had here in the US a neighbor from overseas who I used to talk cars with all the time and he would talk about why are American's obsessed with reliability? Everything's reliable! Well, rather than occasionally driving around his home city as he used to do, he here in the US was putting 30,000 miles a year on a vehicle and learned what wear and tear was and received a rapid education on reliability. It didn't take long for him to trade in his Audi for a Genesis and was much happier....

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foreverablankslate@reddit

To add to that : aftermarket parts that aren’t garbage.

I wouldn’t care if BMW wants to charge $500 for a radiator - but when every aftermarket radiator is complete trash and leaks after a few months then I start to care. There’s been a handful of parts on my E90 where there are zero aftermarket options and I have to pay the stupid BMW tax, it really sucks.

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GinNTonic1@reddit

Europeans prob have good unemployment benefits.

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ManBearKwik@reddit

Honestly, as someone from Europe here I owned French, Japanese, British, Romanian and German cars. From all of those Japanese seemed to me most cheap and uncomfortable for the price paid. I really can give up some of the reliability for the better feeling inside and the comfort other brands give you.

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tallaznboi@reddit

I'll tell you why. Because they leak everywhere, have timing chain/tensioner issues, coupled with direct injection buildup on valves (think of a ear packed with earwax). Vw Audi like to use a proprietary orange sealant that is extremely wet in consistency compared to other manufacturers, which causes leaks to appear at 40k miles. One would think this has to be engineered for service profitability.

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heavychevy1992@reddit

I have an 03 vw jetta tdi, it has the alh engine and oj2 5 speed trans. Bullet proof cars, if you do the maintenance to them. Problem is paying the crazy high prices to have a shop do the work and most americans here are scared to do the timing belts or dont have to tools or know how. I wouldnt want to own a vw gasoline engine, but their diesels are solid. Mine has 286k miles on it and still chugging along. The jap shit boxes are lower maintenance, i also own an 04 toyota corolla and all its needed for the last 200k miles is oil changes and a couple sets of brakes and front wheel bearings. Being that im a mechanic and have 40k$ worth of tools and equipment servicing my own stuff is easy. Oh and the the mk4 vws are electrical demons sometimes. Cant forget the damned undersized and junk wires vw used on them. But hey, if you already have the knowledge and tools they are super simple and easy to work on.

owdee@reddit

Ok I'm absolutely anal about automotive maintenance, but NONE of those are maintenance items. Maintenance items have pre-defined lifetimes or replacement intervals. I don't think I've ever seen a car whose manual specified a replacement interval for water pumps, let along fucking ROD BEARINGS. Let's be real, 99% of the time a car needs its rod bearings replaced, it's mechanically totaled. That's NOT a maintenance item.

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velociraptorfarmer@reddit

I've had BMW fanboys tell me these are maintenance items before in conversations on here.

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lael8u@reddit

Nobody thinks vanos solenoids, timing chain guides or rod bearings are "maintenance items".

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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

VANOS solenoids, plastic timing chain guides, timings chains, plastic water pumps, plastic coolant pipes, rod bearings, etc.

I would say those aren't really maintenance items as you said. To me, I wouldn't replace them unless there was a known issue with the car. And if I did have to replace them I wouldn't be happy about it.

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ban-please@reddit

Many people thing maintenance is oil changes and tires. Everything else is fixed when it breaks.

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doctorbimbu@reddit

Europeans (at least the parts I’ve been) also have public transit options, so a car is more of a luxury than an absolute necessity. And for people who live in rural areas without public transit they offer cheap small cars the US doesn’t even get.

Whereas in the US outside of a few major cities, everyone needs a car, regardless of if they can afford one. And the cars that are available are generally bigger models that would be mid market in Europe, so they’re not as cheap. So I don’t know if it’s so much Americans don’t know or care about doing maintenance, it’s more they’re just barely getting by and can’t afford a major car bill. Even a good 100k service at a dealer is probably well out of most peoples budgets, even if they could afford the $300 a month payment on the car.

Tldr: Americans are just generally broke and a car is a necessity because we built out towns like shit. Having a car and no savings=maintenance gets skipped.

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Ran4@reddit

Err... no, it's the other way around. Americans are fucking crazy with their oil change. It's not uncommon for them to change oil twice a year (!) even when they don't drive much.

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Real_Garlic9999@reddit

The new "long lasting" engines that don't need frequent oil changes do in fact work as advertised, the problem is you still need to regularly top up the oil in the engine, or else you won't be replacing anything by the car after a year passes by

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lowstrife@reddit

I would say (most) are actually really good about the engine oil changes.

But like you say, it's the brake, transmission power steer and coolant which get neglected until they cause a problem, in which case it's already damaged that system internally and will cause problems for the 3rd owner in (x) number of years when those internal seals fail...

Anyway.

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TheDrunkenMatador@reddit

He makes a good point though. Cars are complicated and it’s not reasonable to expect most owners to know everything about them, and mechanics as a profession have well earned their reputation in the US (as he says, especially with women).

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lowstrife@reddit

Should they change their own spark plugs or brakes? No, I agree with you there. But cars have an owners manual that tells you all of this. What fluids need to be changed, and when.

Ya I've outright told female friends of mine to bring a man with you, do not go alone. Car purchasing too.

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I am not saying a lot of people don't skip on maintenance because I think they do, but I think that's only part of the story.

Never buy an Italian brand. They are french now.

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Happy-Pressure561@reddit

I am european and prefer Japanese, in Western Europe Toyota is very popular and generally known for it’s reliability.

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mtbmotobro@reddit

Americans drive a ton. Outside of big cities public transport basically doesn’t exist. Most people put about 15k miles per year on their car, many do more. In the Midwest and northeast, where most Americans live, we have scorching hot summers and cold snowy winters. That much abuse requires a lot of maintenance. Japanese cars, and to a lesser extent, American cars, are more forgiving if you skimp on service. And when that maintenance does come, parts are cheaper and more available for Japanese cars and the actual repairs themselves are usually much more DIY friendly.

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Yeahillgo@reddit

I’ve had great experiences with my VW’s. The problem is basically that in the US, no idy does proper maintenance at all. Additionally, VW mechanics are ‘euro specialists’ that charge a premium.

My current 2010 Sportwagen has 267k miles on it finally doing my first bit of motor work, and the first clutch replacement. Head gasket is leaking.

Previously had a couple different 1.8t GTi’s, first one I wrecked at 147k miles, second one I sold at 230k and last I knew was going string past 250k

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MangoMedic666@reddit

I don't know. Owned three Volkswagens over the years, including one highly modified GTI. Drove the shit out of them from working in sales to road trips/vacations. Only problem I had was a faulty intake manifold on the GTI which was very common for the Mk6 at that time. I was damn good about routine maintenance, though. Actually kinda miss the Jetta Sport Wagon, lol. That 2.5 was stout.

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urmyheartBeatStopR@reddit

Benz C class 2003 kompressor was a piece of shit.

I took care of it and it kept on dying. The build quality is terrible.

So I bought a prius.

Also wtf they use torx. God awful to maintain.

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Dinosbacsi@reddit

I don't know where you live, but from my experiences, us europeans find japanese cars more reliable as well. Hondas are pretty popular cars, especially Civics and Accords. Also Suzukis, they have been the best choice for cheap and reliable cars ever since the Maruti. Or think of the Suzuki Swift that flooded eastern Europe.

The reason VW are popular are simply because they are domestic so there is a bunch of them. Also not too long ago people used to do much more stuff themselves, like 30-50 years ago everyone built their own homes, etc - this meant that you needed a good workhorse, so a diesel combi was a good decision. But people love them because they can haul ass, not because they are reliable.

You are right about the rust problem. But I'm pretty sure most people agree that mechanically japanese cars are superior. Domestic cars are just more popular due to their availability.

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xolov@reddit

I agree with much of what you write, but I think the love for Suzuki is pretty exclusive to Hungary at least when it comes to central/eastern europe.

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It is. I lived in Rhineland Germany for 5.5 years. In that time I put 32k miles on my car. Bought a VW Atlas here new in 2019. I have averaged 12,500 miles here in the states.

I would take trains to Paris and Luxembourg in Europe and other places and walk along with driving. Here you are driving....literally everywhere. There are buses but I would have six stops and it would take a hour for me to go to the grocery store that I can drive myself in 10mins.

I'd have to believe I'm roughly average or close to it .

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Remind me how far people travel on average in America? I'm from the Netherlands, I used to live a 5 minute bike ride from work. Currently I live 15 minutes by car away. I heard you travel up to several hours to work or family or even just a store.

That is the main point though. You expect a car to last 500k miles right? In the Netherlands we don't really like buying cars over 200k km. That's roughly 125k miles. But it's not just distance traveled in a trip. But that also means your engines have a proper heat cycle and operate a much more significant part of their operation time in the proper temperature window.

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mini4x@reddit

Many of us also ignore maintence schedules, and tons of cars are leased, especially luxury brands, so people don't care.

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Pkock@reddit

There is an old saying I've heard about old chevys and think particularly its more work horse items like the 3800 V6, "A chevy will run wrong longer than most cars can run right". IE, even if they are broken, they will still exist and run as beaters. In many ways I think that is what we value in America, the old horse that doesn't quit.

If it starts leaking, you replace it. You don't wait until your engine overheats and either wraps the head or spins a rod bearing. Replacing parts is part of preventative maintenance. Most Europeans don't have a problem with that. American just expect to do nothing and for everything to work until the end of time.

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mini4x@reddit

They drive until the wheels fall off.

Interesting, I've only ever been as far east as Prague, didn't actively notice the difference.

And yeah, old cars are 15-20+ years imo as well.

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Dud3_Abid3s@reddit

You’re on Reddit. Reddit subs tend to fanboy over shit. This sub loves to fanboy Japanese cars and German cars and the 2 groups argue and both shit on American cars.

It’s just fanboy stuff.

Ford makes good cars, so does GM.

Hell…Dodge makes a good car. People tend to get lost down the old fanboy rabbit hole here.

I’ve been in car culture and drag-racing at the strip my whole life. I’ve always bought American. 🇺🇸 It’s what I like…🤷‍♂️ I’ve got friends and family that LOVE Japanese cars and take them to the track as well. It’s what they like. There is definitely differences in design philosophy and quality has been VERY different in the past. At this point though, I don’t have any more issues with my Challenger than my buddy does with his Supra(I know I know…BMW) or my other buddy does with his Miata.

The quality gap has mostly shrank and it really is just about design philosophy. In regards to performance, If you want small, light, with high compression…go import. If you want big, heavy, with cubic inches…go domestic. If you want somewhere in between, get a Ford Mustang or even a Camaro.

It’s about the price of gas at the pump. Europeans prioritized Diesel over regular gasoline and subsidized it. In the US there are no substitutes and Diesel cars aren’t adopted in large numbers. For Americans Diesel means slow, noisy, dirty and polluting and smells bad. Semitrailers and delivery vans come in mind. You don’t want that as daily driver. At the pump a gallon of Diesel is significantly above regular gasoline.

In Europe on the other hand, auto manufacturers installed diesel engines in sedans, even compacts and subcompacts. You won’t see that in the US.

Now diesel are reliable engines and will last high mileage. Based on that companies like Skoda probably gained reputation as “reliable”.

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Weak-Specific-6599@reddit

Most Americans don’t believe in doing the prescribed maintenance on time, rather choosing to wait until something breaks, since there is nothing like the TUV in the states. Many states don’t even have emissions testing.

I don’t go through cars - I have now owned 3 VWs since 2007: a 2002 GTI 337, a 2015 Passat TDI, and a 2018 Atlas. The gti is at about 220k miles; I sold the Passat just last October at about 85k miles, and the Atlas has 105k. None of them have had any life-changing issues. I sold the Passat only because it was too small for my family of 5. I do miss it, so comfy and economical. I also do my own maintenance, and none of it has been terrible.

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funkmachine7@reddit

A lot of America has no regualar testing for rust or mechanical iusses.
In europe a a car has to not only run but meet tested standids.

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cristiand90@reddit

I’d think that we put on the miles a lot faster over here in the US than our friends in Europe. I’m doing 400mi/week just commuting to and from work, and that’s not even the longest commute I’ve had in the last 9yrs. One of my guys is doing 120mi round trip each day. Factor in all the driving I do around town, vacations, day trips, it all adds up.

I am also an engineer and incredibly diligent about my maintenance, both mechanically, electrically, and cosmetically. I like keeping my things looking as brand new as I can.

With that being said, I see loads of shitboxes on the road that probably live one quart of oil at a time and are a toothpick away from a blowout.

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Nellies_Daddy@reddit

I bought a 2007 VW Rabbit brand new.

Anytime there was any wheel hop, the plastic engine cover would hit the hood, push too deep in the grommet on the intake manifold and crack the manifold. It happened 3 times.

Then my transaxle grenades on the highway.

Then they tried to deny my warranty because they thought I was tampering with things.

Traded it in after 8 months of ownership for a 99 Corvette that I still have.

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BeaverMartin@reddit

The last great VWs were air cooled.

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blipsman@reddit

A couple things:

We don’t have many VW diesels. Diesel cars/SUVs aren’t popular in general in the U.S., although for a brief period VW had more success than other brands. But then the “Dieselgate” scandal resulted in them stopping sale of any diesels and buying back most of the ones they had sold. We mostly have the turbo gas engines, which are less reliable and costly to repair certain common issues
Most VWs sold in U.S. are made in Mexico and have lower build quality than European made ones.
North American specific models (which is now entire line-up other than GTI and Golf R) have been decontented to hit mainstream price points in segments VW competes, so models have lower end parts, less nice materials, etc. you see silly issues like center roof console falling off many U.S. Tiguans, overall cheapness of Taos interior.

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Vetroza@reddit

Number two is there actual proof of this? I believe my vw up is built in slovakia and wonder how that would compare to german built vehicles🤔

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blipsman@reddit

VW is typically near bottom of reliability surveys. From personal anecdotal experience, I bought an ‘02 Jetta made in Mexico that had a bunch of build quality issues like rattles and disconnected speakers that caused electrical hum. My ‘02 Passat and ‘11 Tiguan built in Europe were much better built. I now drive a ‘23 Tiguan built in Mexico and while ours has been fine so far, early years of this generation had issues with B-pillar rattles, the previously mentioned header console filling that seems to affect a number of years.

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carguy82j@reddit

You said it yourself TDIs. Our old non DEF TDIs ran forever and we're reliable. All our European car engines with US emissions kill the reliability. Weather gas or diesel, emissions control devices on high strung European engines kill their reliability. We also don't get super base model engines like you guys do over there.

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themickeymauser@reddit

Sometimes it’s less about the actual longevity of a vehicle but more of a “how easy is it to fix when it breaks.” I’ll agree that Volkswagens are some of the most reliable cars on the market for many decades. But they’re pretty close to Toyota and Nissan and Honda, and when a VW does break, they are far more complicated to fix for the value/reliability than a Japanese competitor.

StandupJetskier@reddit

Americans drive a LOT further than Euros. American car inspection ranges from very annoying (California) to nonexistent, and most States that inspect it isn't too tough if the check engine light is off. Euro car inspection is actually inspection so there is both an expectation and a reality of actual constant attention. Much of the nonenthusiast car market (93% of everyone) doesn't fix it until it actually breaks.

The Japanese car makers know this and build accordingly. US car makers know it too...a GM runs crappy longer than most cars run at all is by design.

When the VW tosses a Check Engine light because one of the coils is crappy, if you DIY it is minor, if you pay everytime that damn light shows up it is new car time shortly.

Where it is made is probably not relevant any more....my Acura came from Canada, I had a Golf actually from Germany, the POS cheaty Diesel, a very good Jetta hecho en Mexico (reliable and no rattles), and have two Mercedes, one from the Deep South and one from Finland.

I had a Cadillac once, assembled in Michigan, out of mostly Chinese parts. It was truly crap...all the commodity parts were good for 60k miles.

In Europe cars can't pass the strict euro inspections, they are all "sold East", a ready market which will put a lot of (cheaper) work into keeping something running. Our shitboxes migrate to non inspection states where they expire after being run literally into the ground, or the rust finally wins.

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xolov@reddit

Can confirm. You don't need many hundred euros to buy a car in Germany that is throwing some light, thus won't pass inspection💪

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lemlurker@reddit

Minis are the same, all the us reputation is they're unreliable moneypits, in the UK they're both reliable and cheap to fix

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xolov@reddit

I think they've got the same reputation as in the US in most of Europe..

But of course given how abundant they are in the UK I'm sure pretty much every mechanic knows how to work one

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Due-Glove4808@reddit

Because german cars are just normal daily drivers in europe, most common taxi example here in finland is diesel e class, its not uncommon to see also 5 series bmws as taxi use, those cars do easily over 500k km without issues. Europe gets more variety in models while in america those same brands concentrate to sell just luxury options.

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xolov@reddit

German cars are still considered far from as reliable as Japanese in Finland.

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thefizzlee@reddit

I'm from Europe but I stand with America. German cars have gone downhill in reliability while Japanese cars have stayed mostly the same or improved (rust for example). From the timing chain issues and excessive oil consumption plaguing vw and bmw to the cars basically becoming unservicable by anyone accept the dealer. The direction German cars are heading is not one I support and that's not even talking about all the subscription models they try and implement. I have little faith in German car quality and have had for a while. Vw is probably the best in quality if you had to pick one, with merc and bmw probably at the lowest point in the scale.

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xolov@reddit

There's a reason why if you go to the extreme regions in Europe such as rural Norway, Iceland, Ukraine etc. where your life might rely on you having a dependable, the vast majority drive Japanese.

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NCSUGrad2012@reddit

I'm from Europe but I stand with America.

Thanks, bro.

I will say though, to the rest of your comment, I do think BMW quality has gotten much better in recent years. Especially with the B58 engine.

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PancakesandGTA@reddit

A lot of people also just go off whatever they hear from word of mouth, even if the relayed information is decades out of date. There are some people who will never purchase a Dodge/Chrysler because a family member or friend got a lemon Aspen back in ‘76 for example. I hear many passing comments about the reliability of Alfa Romeo from back in the 1980s despite driving a car that was designed and released 37 years after.

There is also a lot of brand loyalty here in the states—some people will only purchase Chevy trucks because thats what their father drove and what their father’s father drove as well

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aronkra@reddit

After the kia boyz incident you wont find me ever driving a korean car

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Shadowcard4@reddit

Simple, repair market. In general any European car in the states is like 1.5x the cost to repair compared to Japanese commuter cars, Toyota being the cheapest, usually followed by Nissan, then Mazda, then Mitsubishi/US cars, then European import commuters, then European import luxury

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Nice cars. I wish I had 540i. But even 525i is decently fast compared to other cars over here. The 316i on the other hand is really slow.

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PrecisionGuessWerk@reddit

I don't even think they sold 316i's where I am, only 318 as the lowest trim.

The 316 sounds like its super slow. looking online it made 102hp? My na miata makes 114 from 1.6l and is notoriously slow. at least the miata feels fast because its so small and you're so exposed. But remove 12hp, add 600lbs (316 is surprisingly light!) and it will be even slower than an na miata - but with sound deadening making it feel even slower.

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Kornaros@reddit

The N40 in my father's E46 compact is rated at 115PS. It sometimes will feel slow.

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Fulid@reddit (OP)

Yep, there were 72 and 73 kW versions (I think, not 100% sure if it was 72 or 71, id does not matter, lol). And mine was the most "powerfull" one and it have 75 kW.. so still nothing. And yea, it feels really slow. Here in Europe there are o lot of really slow cars and even some new cars have less than 50 kW. I have driven a lot of cars and some of them had only 44kW.. but they felt faster, because of nearly non-exsiting sound deadening.

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mini4x@reddit

E34! '95 540i.

The " Baby M5" my brother had one and it was deceptively fast, and super comfy to drive.

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Tessoro43@reddit

Because the European cars (VW, BMW, Mercedes etc) made for the American market are unreliable. It’s totally different in Europe. At least I know in Germany, if those cars were as unreliable as here in the US, nobody would buy them) German love quality.

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Random_Introvert_42@reddit

Some places, like Germany, have regular inspections, so technical issues/neglect can't get as bad. A "beater" in Germany is either off the road after 2 years, or it's...not that "beater-y".
Some cars for the Americas are literally built different. Volkswagen surveyed the US and found that people wanted a cheaper Passat and didn't care as much about materials/fitment/etc, so they got the "NA-Passat" which has cheaper materials/finish and, due to simpler construction, the steering wheel offset from the driver. But americans bought it because cheaper Passat, and it still looked "flashy" (it's still considered that the US-market prioritizes "first glance" looks). Same with the "Routan" the US got instead of the Sharan/Touran.

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suckmydiznak@reddit

Subpar electrical systems and needless overcomplication. Japanese cars are easier to service, and have better designed electrical systems.

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UncannyVibes@reddit

All I know is I had a 96 Passat and it was the most unreliable car I could ever imagine, I ended up giving it away because so many components broke so fast. And my friends who have VWs have all had a steady steam of issues. Anecdotal, by my experience certainly backs up what I’ve read.

And all of the Japanese cars I’ve owned or that have been in my family have been absolutely bulletproof

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suckmydiznak@reddit

The electrical systems are one of the biggest sticking points for me. It doesn't matter how well and often you maintain the car, a shitty electrical system is going to cause issues no matter what.

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Critical_Youth_9986@reddit

The question is, why Americans see VW as really unrealible brand, but overhere people see it as one of the most reliabile.

As someone from VW top managament told...."no one own a car more than 7 years"

If you try a japanese car you are not interested in german cost cutting engineering approach anymore.

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TheDrunkenMatador@reddit

VWs reputation in Europe comes from their small diesel and gas engines, and cheap parts. Parts are more expensive in the US partly because of shopping and taxes, and tbh I bet also some profiteering by VW/dealers. Often, VWs base gas engine for an EU model isn’t available in America (most Americans won’t buy an NA engine less than 2 L), meaning we get more powerful, but less reliable gas engines. As for the diesels, small diesels were just starting to gain traction in the US when Dieselgate basically went “that scene in Deliverance” on diesel’s reputation.

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ajrf92@reddit

1.9 TDI, 1.8T, Inline 6 from BMW,...

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Top-Speech-742@reddit

The problem is not the reliability but the coats associated with it. I had an ID4 and now an Atlas driving on gravel and mountain roads. No repairs except alignment and regular service. A recall on the engine has been dealt while in the shop.

The price for parts and for labour for VW, MB, BMW or Porsche is much lower cmp to the US. Toyotas reliability issues are well known and their response to recalls that costed lives is still a great case study for many Business schools.

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Drenlin@reddit

To add to everything else people have said, parts for most German brands are horrendously expensive over here. What might be an expensive trip to the shop for an American or Japanese vehicle can be a "cut your losses and buy something else" situation with many European brands.

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Type-21@reddit

Here in Germany you often have BMW parts costing 1/3 of Mazda parts

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GadFlyBy@reddit

VW may have decent engine designs, but you get nickel-and-dimensions to death on small shit going wrong.

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WolverineMinimum8691@reddit

TDI

This is the first part. The US didn't really get TDIs, we got their gas engines which are known for being less reliable.

The other part is that to Americans "reliable" means "just runs without attention". German engineering assumes strict adherence to maintenance schedules, something Americans suck at doing. In reality pretty much all German cars are super reliable so long as you are religious about keeping up with the maintenance.

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Dnlx5@reddit

I do think heat has something to do with it.

Half of American cars see 100deg summers with both time spend idling on 120deg asphalt, as well as 100deg summers accelerating at full throttle from 40 to 70. This doesn't happen in almost all of Europe.

Look up the glass transition temperature of nylon then look at how much of VW/audis are made of glass filled nylon. Then look at Toyota or Chevy.

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NetCaptain@reddit

a lot has to do with the engine and owner chooses : if someone buys a 330hp Golf, it’s a complicated engine most likely driven like a sports car, if someone buys a 110hp entry level spec, it will most likely be driven over calmly to the supermarket. As for Toyota, their owners are often old, careful and slow - a car can last a lifetime if you drive it like that

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TheAutoAlly@reddit

personally i believe its the difference between durability and reliability, typically Japanese cars are very reliable and are able to be ran with minimal maintenance costs. they can suffer from build quality problems long term rust etc etc. german cars typically have great paint and body fixtures. they require more maintenance that is the states costs more even on entry level cars, however if you happen to live somewhere like Eastern Europe where labor is not as expensive as the states well it becomes a different proposition to keep a well made durable car on the road long term.

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xstreamReddit@reddit

OBD regulations.

In the US there are very strict rules as to when to turn on the check engine light or throw an error. 90% of those things will never be noticed by the driver in the EU and will simply be fixed during routine maintenance or most of the time not even that as they aren't even in the fault memory.
The strict rules in the US lead to loads of nuisance trips and needlessly replaced parts. It's of a good example of the road to hell being paved with good intentions.

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quarkplace@reddit

I had a VW, and I am very diligent with maintenance. The car would have random issues unrelated to maintenance (ignition cylinder suddenly breaks, ceiling trim coming off, random airbag sensor issues). None of this happens in my subsequent Toyotas/hondas.

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SpeedDaemon3@reddit

Because VW made very reliable diesel cars and very unreliable gasoline cars. Europeans bought the diesel legenda, americans bought the gasoline disasters.

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Plastic-Bluebird2491@reddit

certainly not speaking for the whole country, but where i live we have a LOT of dirt roads. In my experience, the EU cars just don't hold up as well (volvo, VW) vs. US cars that i've had (GM and Ford)

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Bombaysbreakfastclub@reddit

Europeans just have to spend way more to maintain their car than Americans.

Rillist@reddit

My thoughts on reliability, as I've owned ~20 different vehicles in my 25 years of driving (and riding motorcycles) from Japan, Germany and the US.

At some point maintenance and repair will cost more than the price of the vehicle in the used market, or I should say theres a cost ratio between the 2. For me its how fast that maintenance or repair overcomes the price of purchase. I split maintenance and repairs because there is a difference. Shock absorber is maintenance, replacing a head gasket is a repair. A shock will clunk and wear out over time but shouldnt 'fail' leaving you stranded unless you're negligent. A head gasket can take down an engine in a matter of seconds, sometimes without warning. This happened to me with my old Honda prelude; driving along the highway, see temp spike in seconds with steam coming from the hood and by the time I had a chance to safely pull off the road I had warped the head, flooded a piston and rodney decided to sing karaoke.

The newest car I've owned was a 2017 Civic Sport hatch I bought in 2019. So 2/3 years old is the youngest car I've owned. The oldest was a 98 Nissan Pathfinder I bought in 2013 but I've owned 3 cars from the 80s but I bought them when they were less than 20 years old.

As an example, German cars are built to cruise the autobahn at 150-170kms/hours (100mph) and as such their suspension setups are vastly more complicated to keep the wheels in perfect control at those speeds. Thusly why you have like 6 control arms for each corner all with bushings that have a shelf life, which is why inspections are part of the work order at every other oil change. In Europe, this makes sense as people drive less on average and take their cars to the closest dealer or brand specialist. In North America where the distances between places can be absolutely vast, this mentality doesnt really work as your local BMW specialist might be 150 miles (240kms) away.

Japanese and American cars in their own market have speed limits, like 70mph max or 120kms max, and as such they design their cars around those limits so things like suspension dont need to be so complicated. My honda has 3 bushings, a ball joint, a cv axle and a shock absorber compared to what I mentioned previously.

Japanese cars (up to a point) are designed for the life of the vehicle, and rarely make design choices that will catastrophically fail the car, short of a major service such as timing belt. For contrast, ford ecoboost engines rely on a tiny rubber band that drives the oil pump outside of the main timing gear. Honda puts all that in one place so when you replace the timing belt you're also replacing the oiling belt, for ex. Chevy v8s with their add-on MDS eats their engines leading to costly repair unexpectedly.

My gfs truck has 30,000kms on it and is already showing signs of timing chain stretch. My ridgeline has 360,000 and runs better than her truck because design choices dictate things are cheap and easy to replace, even the timing belt I can do in my garage over a 4-6 hour timeframe because access is literally right there through the passenger fenderwell. Her truck is basically brand new and I wouldnt call it reliable because its thrown codes and been into the shop 4 times for unscheduled repairs beyond maintenance and is showing sogns of failure despite her being very on top of her maintenance. I would consider my 15 year old ridgeline reliable because the maintenance is as up to date on her but doesnt have idiotic design choices that will lead to imminent failure.

We can have the discussion about CAFE standards and emissions requirements forcing tighter engineering and increased complexities but when weve got hybrids from the mis 2000s still on the road with half a million kms and a brand new vehicle barely makes it to 40,000 then we have to start talking about poor designs, and by far and away Japanese cars have less poor design choices than their German or American counterparts. Whether thats a social stigma or a work ethic or even a cost conversation I'm not educated pr qualified to speak on.

Most Hondas or Toyotas (yes including recently because Toyota has issued massive recalls immediately whilst the koreans try to hide it) will last longer because their designs are simpler with maintenance in mind and with half of them being built locally parts are almost as cheap as American while not having idiotic design choices.

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albiorix_@reddit

We are lazy for the most part and do NOT want to take care of cars like the Germans do. When an American buys a BMW they feel entitled or whatever and are taken aback that they might have to put more effort into a vehicle even though it is more expensive than a Japanese one.

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Muggi@reddit

We don't get ones made in Europe anymore. If you go back to the early 2000's when we still got our VWs from Europe, they were as good as yours. Friend of mine just replaced her 2004 Jetta wagon TDI, 340k mi (547km) and still ran strong.

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compu85@reddit

German cars are complicated. They have more complicated sensor systems than a Toyota, more complicated comfort electronics, more complicated PCVs. More complicated = more to break.

Also keep in mind VWs here generally only get the large engines. Consider the Tiguan which only got the 2.0 TFSI gasser. Which had all kinds of problems. My favorite is the PCV valve that fails, which blows the rear man seal. Gotta take the transmission out to fix it.

The days of the rotary pump TDI are over.

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AllGarbage@reddit

My experience with VW in the US is that they’re reasonably reliable vehicles, but when it comes time to eventually make a repair, the parts/labor costs on that Jetta will be more in line with a BMW 3-series or Mercedes C class than the Altima/Civic that you might have comparing it to when you bought the car.

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lee1026@reddit

"Reasonably reliable" is table stakes when it comes to cars.

To be considered Toyota/Honda levels of reliability, you need the car to run for decade+ on just oil changes done by random high school dropouts who got a job at the local Jiffy Lube.

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IronSloth@reddit

i tow in a metropolitan area in the US and my most towed car is a BMW. i get on average one a day, if not multiple. they drive like a dream but they are always on the back of my flatbed

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Pkock@reddit

There is an old saying I've heard about old chevys and think particularly its more work horse items like the 3800 V6, "A chevy will run wrong longer than most cars can run right". IE, even if they are broken, they will still exist and run as beaters. In many ways I think that is what we value in America, the old horse that doesn't quit.

Euro cars are kinda the opposite, if they are running right, and maintained like a watch, they will generally keep on going. They absolutely should not be "run wrong" for any period of time. That's when they chuck timing belts/chains, or the water pump fails and they destroy themselves.

That is also a product of time periods though, the M20 in my E28 has certainly lived a tough life but it still is kicking with 230K on the clock. But that was a more straight forward era for german cars and they had a very different reputation then as being unstoppable tanks, which kinda proves that is what Americans value.

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MrWestReanimator@reddit

I couldn't tell you, i had a 2015 GTI 2 door until just a few months ago and never had an issue with it. Hopefully my luck with it rubs off on my current car lol.

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Fulid@reddit (OP)

Haha, you are really challenging your luck with Alfa Romeo. Have fun with it and hope it lasts!

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MrWestReanimator@reddit

Thanks!

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johnny_tifosi@reddit

Over here in Europe (or atleast in my country, but I know a lot of ex-eastern block contries, Balkan countries,.. have it same) there are no old Toyotas. Everybody will say the the most reliabile old car is 1.9 TDI. They are everywhere. A lot of them have over 500 000 or even 750 000 km. In my country this engine is most common in Škoda Octavia and they are everywhere, literally. In Poland Passat, Golf..

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James_Atlanta@reddit

I owned two VW Jetta's with the TDI, both were great vehicles with no real issues. Diesels are rare in the use and that has been exacerbated by the VW emissions scandal. It's the reason I got rid VW. Many owners took advantage of the buyback and as a result TDIs have virtually disappeared from the US.

I've had friends that owned gas and hybrid VWs and had no issues. VW has a bad reputation in the US, but personally I think it's due to lack of maintenance or crappy techs at some dealerships.

Hyundai/Kia have a horrible reputation for engine issues and in general being cheap but they're still all over the place.

VW also has limited offerings in the US. We've never gotten the Polo. Our options were Golf, Jetta (Bora), Passat, Phaeton, CC/Arteon, Toureag, Tiguan, Taos, Atlas, and a stupid rebadged Dodge minivan.

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inquisitiveimpulses@reddit

Because only the TDI is reliable and I don't know about over there, but here in America, Volkswagen of America absolutely r*pes consumers on the cost of replacement parts.

But you are right the TDI is reliable. Local cab company here tested every platform in the most reliables a generation 2 Prius the second most reliable is the Volkswagen tdi. I don't know if that's be true after all of the CPUs had to be replaced because Volkswagen was cheating on US emissions control testing.

Not a very good comparison though because any diesel is going to be more reliable than a gasoline-powered car because the byproduct of diesel is essentially graphite which helps protect the engine.

I don't know much about modern Mercedes but in the late seventies through the '80s the 123 and 126 body Mercedes diesels the 300ds were quite reliable.

I take one of those over a Volkswagen TDI all day long

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banditorama@reddit

Our VW's come from different factories than yours. I can't speak for the entirety of the US, but from my experience, our VW "techs" are garbage. They barely know what they're doing, they don't posses the ability to do any diagnosis beyond the manufacturer flow chart, and when they get stumped they give up.

Basic things (like thermostat replacements) are way over-complicated. I've never met a thermostat I couldn't replace in under an hour until I bought a VW. The sensors fail at a concerning rate, I've replaced every single wheel speed sensor and had to replace DPF sensors on mine. The interior fabric glue literally disintegrates out of nowhere leaving you with a sagging headliner and loose door fabric trim.

The diesel "fix" in the US was a lot more effective compared to Europe. Which led to US TDI's having more problems like DPF cracking, extreme soot buildup, and intercooler icing issues in cold weather.

They suck here. Plain and simple. I know more people who've sworn off VWs because of never-ending problems (myself included) than I do people who love them. The people that love them are just more vocal about it

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Quaiche@reddit

The cars are built differently AND Americans tend to skip maintenance intervals or to do their own maintenance while us Europeans just go to the dealership and we generally follow the intervals.

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lazarus870@reddit

Afghanistan, one of the poorest countries on earth, loves the Corolla. In most poor countries or places where reliability is life or death, Toyotas are the vehicles they use.

Despite that, I think they're built to a better standard over in Europe.

I had two colleagues with VW SUVs, and they both needed obscene amounts of maintenance and repairs for such low mileage (turbo replacements, etc.).

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