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Ahazeuris@reddit

She did, but not without treating him like shit and using his money first. This movie actually taught me a lot about relationships, mainly what kind of person to avoid.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

She did, but not without treating him like shit and using his money first.

Yeah, after Gary did all that for her just have the kindness of his heart, not because he was expecting anything in return.

This movie actually taught me a lot about relationships, mainly what kind of person to avoid.

It should have taught you what kind of person to avoid being. Specifically, an attempted user like Gary.

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Whether he did it out of he kindness of his heart or not is irrelevant. He still did it. And yes. Karen was the type of person to avoid. Just because Gary wasn't an angel, doesn't make Karen one.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Whether he did it out of he kindness of his heart or not is irrelevant. He still did it.

Well, I just have to fundamentally disagree with that premise. His motivation for his actions is absolutely relevant when it comes to judging how sympathetic he's supposed to be as a character. He didn't do any of this out of selflessness; it was for his own selfish reasons; he thought that by doing all of that for her, it would win her over, that she would feel obligated to date him, the same way as when he first met her by letting the air out of her tired and then pretending to randomly be passing by so he could "graciously: offer her a ride to school. Would he have done all of this for some girl that he wasn't attracted to? Would he have done it for Rose, the cute girl he went on that double date with, who was clearly into him, but whom he just ignored?

And yes. Karen was the type of person to avoid. Just because Gary wasn't an angel, doesn't make Karen one.

Maybe she is the type of person to avoid, maybe she is no angel...or maybe she's got mental health issues. Maybe she was traumatized in some way as a kid. Did her father run out on her? Abuse her? Treat her mother like crap? Was she in a previous toxic relationship before hooking up with Rick? We really didn't know anything about her, and neither did Gary, which is the other point that I stressed in my review. The film greatly underwrote her character, it gives us no insight into why she might go back to Rick after what he did. She was a cipher, just in the film as an object to come between Gary and Rick, the latter of which was also an underwritten character, as in the first half of the film he's not better or worse than Gary or David and appeared to genuinely be into Karen only to suddenly turn into a major asshole when she got pregnant.

I get that the film wanted us to see Gary as the sympathetic victim, which, again, as an inexperienced kid myself at the time I did, but with the hindsight of adulthood and more experience I can see that he was actually written as a stereotypical "nice guy."

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

I'd argue it was a mix of things. Yes. He wanted a relationship. He also felt like his friend was being a cad, which is why he originally went to confront him and get him to step up. I also don't think he let the air out of her tire so she would date him, because he gave her a ride. I think he did that to give him an excuse to talk to her (and I don't think that was good either). And yeah. I do think he'd have confronted his friend for knocking up Rose and dumping her. I don't think he'd have gone as far as he did for Karen though. I'll give you that.

I think you're misunderstanding me. My argument isn't that Gary is a great guy and I don't think he deserves anything. No one does. A lot of times, people talk about how being a nice guy doesn't entitle you to a relationship. That's true. Karen doesn't owe him anything for being ther when she needed someone the most. If she wants to get back with the guy that abandoned her in her time of need, that's entirely her prerogative. But there's a second part. Women aren't owed kindness or acts of service. Instead of confronting Rick, trying to get him to step up, letting her stay over, paying for her abortion and taking care of her, he should have kept on walking when he saw her crying in the hallway.

Sorry if I came across as rude. I just saw the movie the other day and I wanted to see if anyone else was talking about it.

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wmnoe@reddit

Fuck Gary. He was a schmuck.

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Rick probably knocked her up and dumped her again. Lol.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Well, that's still better off than Gary, who later went camping with some friends and ended up striking out with another girl before getting slaughtered by Jason Voorhees. Lol.

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Lol. That's funny. But realistically, he went on to college, got an office job and married some average girl without simping again. I know the actor was killed off later though. Good joke.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

He was the prototype "nice guy," who thought, hey, I'm "selflessly" being there to help you when you need it, therefore you owe me a relationship now.

I mean, come on, from the moment where he first met her by following her to her home and then giving her bike a flat tire so he could pretend to randomly drive by and offer her a ride to school, to the end where right after this heartbroken and vulnerable young lady had an abortion, he's proclaiming his "love" for her, the dude's uber-creepy.

Yeah, I get why we all naturally sympathized with him when we saw this as kids to teens, but as an adult now I can see this a bit differently.

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LeoMarius@reddit

They used the bicycle trick in Saltburn.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Saltburn

Never heard of it. I just looked it up on Wikipedia. Holy fuck!

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LeoMarius@reddit

It's a great movie, but there are some scenes that were hard to watch.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

I knew it was a movie I'd probably never watch when I got the description of the lead male character drinking another man's semen-coated bathwater.

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Jasonstackhouse111@reddit

I'm not sure if the writers wanted us to see ourselves in Gary, but let's face it, he was a creep and a jerk. He didn't help Karen out of selflessness. He only saw their relationship in terms of himself.

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Call him what you want. Karen still didn't deserve his kindness.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Karen still didn't deserve his kindness.

Why not? What did she do or did not do to prove your point that she didn't deserve it? Let's accept your premise (which I already explained in other comments that I don't) that what Gary did was "kindness." He voluntarily chose to help this girl, who he wasn't dating and barely knew, to get an abortion and recover from it. She didn't ask him for it, didn't lead him on for it; she just took the help that he offered because she was desperate (which he knew and was counting on). Was she to understand at the beginning that in exchange for accepting his help, she was obligated to start dating him afterward? Because he didn't tell her that at the start. No, he waits until she literally just finished getting major surgery after being harshly rejected by the guy she gave her virginity to, to tell her that he was in love with her. Do you think that was good timing?

Seriously, I'm trying to understand what it is about these characters that makes you so sympathetic towards one that you came to this 3-month-old post to defend him several times.

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Because no one deserves anything. Gary didn't deserve her love. And she didn't deserve his kindness (That really went above and beyond). I just watched the movie yesterday. It's not that deep.

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LeoMarius@reddit

Sounds like a teenager.

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cheesecheeseonbread@reddit

Ah, yes. That's the one about the guy who falls in love with a girl solely because she's physically attractive, and is outraged when she chooses another man solely because he's physically attractive.

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Yes! You get it. Gary's no angel.

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2late2soon781983@reddit

Wow great review thanks for posting. Perfect analysis of this film

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Comicbookguy1234@reddit

Gary's no angel, but she still didn't deserve his kindness.

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LeoMarius@reddit

Joke’s on her her. Stave Antin bats for our team.

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ImpossiblePizza321@reddit

Fantastic ending!

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UniversityNo6727@reddit

I hated the ending. I didn't see it coming

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ImpossiblePizza321@reddit

I totally get people not liking it, but it completely subverted the 80s movie formula. Great from a movie-making perspective, but it definitely made people mad.

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KoreaMieville@reddit

I remember sneaking into this at the theater with my friends, expecting a typical teen sex comedy. It started out that way, but then took that crazy swerve into the abyss. We walked out in total silence.

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UniversityNo6727@reddit

It did me. Definitely subverted my mood for the night. Hell, it still makes me mad thinking about it now. I guess the director got what they wanted.

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UrbanGimli@reddit

Like 500 days of Summer, it makes you pout but then you realize people are just people and thats how life goes.

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Helmett-13@reddit

It was a good ending without being a happy ending, I will say that. It was a bitter dose of realism which is rare for these movies.

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Formal-Working3189@reddit

I don't even remember the ending! I remember the crabs, and the angry husband. A pizza place lol but damned if can remember the ending 😫

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utopista114@reddit

The Israeli version (the original) is better because it is more grounded. And the abortion scene was also more real. And am I mistaken or the setup was in the 1960s?

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HideYourWifeAndKids@reddit

No way. GenX US version a MILLION times better!!

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utopista114@reddit

Is by the same director more or less in the same years. It is Gen X for Israelis.

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HideYourWifeAndKids@reddit

Set in the '60s SO 60s music, made in the '70s, definitely NOT a GenX flick!! Last American virgin is very GenX!! All GenX music and we were teenagers when it came in the 80s!

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utopista114@reddit

You're forgetting that Eskimo Limon was a staple of TV through the 1980s and 1990s and has a few sequels. It is a Gen X thing.

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HideYourWifeAndKids@reddit

Great. The Israeli movie was not a GenX movie, but last American Virgin was... bottom line...

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

And am I mistaken or the setup was in the 1960s?

I have never seen the Isreali version, but Wikipedia says that that film was set in the 1950s. But the American version was set in the then-present 1980s.

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HideYourWifeAndKids@reddit

Mr Lonely..

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MaximumJones@reddit

Finally a realistic movie where the hot girl bangs the good looking jock and not the nerd. 😎

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oregon_coastal@reddit

Ducky has entered the chat...

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Icy_Independent7944@reddit

He damn sure has! 😭

I love how they tested the “Andy and Ducky ride off into the sunset together” ending and all of teenage GenX society rebelled. No, just no.

As an adult, I love the Duck man. As a pre-teen? I wanted the man off the screen.

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NebulousStar@reddit

I thought the whole problem with the movie was that she chose Blaine over Ducky. Ducky was cute as f*k, AND nice! Blaine was spineless and whiney.

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RogerClyneIsAGod2@reddit

This is something many people don't understand. At that age in that era, the majority of girls would've totally picked Blaine. Especially those of us that were like Andie. It might've been nice to see life from The Cool Kids Clique for a while.

Of course we now know those kids were as fucked up, if not more fucked up than the Uncool Kids & Duckie would've gone to the ends of the earth for us & sometimes that's what you really need.

But as a kid if I'd been Andie? I'd have totally picked with Blaine too.

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Prettylittlelioness@reddit

Steff for me, but only for a secret after-school hookup where our mutual contempt flamed into passion.

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RogerClyneIsAGod2@reddit

Steff works too.

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LeoMarius@reddit

Ducky had to be gay.

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oregon_coastal@reddit

Why? Cause he was different?

As a straight up period punk I thought Ducky was the most punk thing I ever saw. Bad situation and hard choices - and he didn't take it out on himself or others - he used it to be himself - to really be who he was.

That said, the director said the character was straight - but even under that umbrella, I am sure there is quite a bit of spectrum.

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NebulousStar@reddit

Good looking weasel.

Hyungin

StrayKids

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dee_emcee@reddit

I thought that was Dave Gahan lol

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thagor5@reddit

Downvote for not naming movie

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5adieKat87@reddit

This movie ruined REO Speedwagon for me and I’m still thankful for that

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DisturbingPragmatic@reddit

Forgot this movie existed!

He was great in Friday the 13th the Final Chapter.

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HeinousHaggis@reddit

And also as the buddy who put a wrench in Rocky Dennis’s travel plans.

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Helmett-13@reddit

Diane Franklin played such an awful character in this and did it well enough that it was tough to overcome in, “Better Off Dead”, but she did. Her character was such a gem in that movie.

Also, holy Hell the gratuitous plot we had in movies in every genre.

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UrbanGimli@reddit

Well, she spoke the international language of Love in Better off Dead.

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HPIndifferenceCraft@reddit (OP)

FRENNNNNZZZZ

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chace_thibodeaux@reddit

Diane Franklin played such an awful character in this

But was she really awful? I say she was underwritten. We know almost nothing about her, who she is, what her family is like, what could have driven her to fall for someone like Rick, etc. She was a cipher in this film, just an object for Gary to pine for and for Rick to mistreat.

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