Day shapes
Posted by mpstr1nger@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 85 comments
I made a day shapes crib sheet Hope someone finds it useful
Blank space to add notes if needed
Posted by mpstr1nger@reddit | sailing | View on Reddit | 85 comments
I made a day shapes crib sheet Hope someone finds it useful
Blank space to add notes if needed
Random-Mutant@reddit
Power gives way to sail gives way to fishing gives way to constrained by draught gives way to restricted ability to manoeuvre gives way to not under command.
Please Send Flowers Congratulating Royal Navy.
Note: Fishing boats, to claim stand on status, should be displaying their day shape or equivalent lights at night.
B5_S4@reddit
Was out at a big regatta with my Nacra 5.2 and we were about half an hour from our next start so we sailed well off the starting area, heave to, and pull some snacks out of our pfds for a nice little lunch. The only other 5.2 at the even came flying down at us on a broad reach, the single handing skipper seeming to struggle to keep the boat going in a straight line. He yells "STARBOARD!" at us, which we found odd since we were both sitting in the middle of the tramp up against the boom and not meeting each other at a crossing in the middle of an upwind leg, the tiller just hanging off the side of the boat and food in our hands. So I yell back "Vessel not under command!" which the skipper thankfully processed quickly, turning his wild run aside from us in the form of a neatly executed crash gybe, accompanied by some colorful language. Unfortunately despite our shared love of the 5.2 platform he didn't want to get drinks with us after the racing wrapped up lol.
alex1033@reddit
Technically, a heaved-to boat is still underway, hence you must give way to a stand-on vessel if you're in a collision course. If you're NUC, you must display the two balls. If you're not displaying them due to any reason - you must take the tiller and give way
Amphets@reddit
While heave to you still are under command. That's why it's better to heave to on Starboard. He had rights unless you were leeward.
Was the guy a dick? Yes. First rule and common courtesy is to keep clear, especially while not racing.
B5_S4@reddit
How is a boat with no helmsman under command? He was not racing, he was in our class, he was just crashing his way through the boats waiting to enter their starting sequence, far from the course and the starting line. If you want to be pedantic, our mainsail was to port, so we were both starboard and leeward of him as he ran down. We also were stationary (as stationary as a boat gets hove-to in 2-3 ft seas, at least), and I'd bet the race committee and insurance companies would side with us 9 times out of 10 had he hit us lol.
mitch_mc_turtle@reddit
Heaving to does not relieve you of your obligation to keep an eye on your surroundings. Just because your helmsman was having lunch does not mean you did not have a helmsman lol
B5_S4@reddit
What are you on about? Do you think you have to motor out to your moored boat and move it if someone comes along under sail? Do you have any idea how difficult it is to maneuver an 80s era racing cat when it isn't already underway? The vessel doesn't need to be abandoned to not be under command. I'm glad I'm not in insurance because I'd be worried about the possibility of half of the commenters here being my customers confident enough in their poor interpretation of regulations to plow into a stopped boat with no one at the helm because they thought they had right of way.
finestgreen@reddit
Nobody should be ploughing into a boat in any circumstance where it can be avoided, but you're still unequivocally wrong.
B5_S4@reddit
Ackshually đ¤
finestgreen@reddit
You could just say "oops I was wrong" but that'll do I guess
B5_S4@reddit
You hit a boat that's hove to whole yelling starboard at it, get an insurance payout from them for the damage and I'll change my tune. Until then you're an armchair quarterbacking moron who doesn't understand real life lol.
Justice4myhomies@reddit
With your logic every helmsman could just let go off the rudder and claim NUC. COLREGs don't work that way. When you're heave to you still need to take the proper precautions eg keep a lookout etc.
However, both skippers should work to avoid a collision. After all, at sea no one's got the right of way.
finestgreen@reddit
Both boats would share responsibility and the courts would decide in what ratio - but the hove-to boat can't claim NUC status for its convenience, and in any case isn't claiming that status unless it's displaying the shapes or lights. It's straightforwardly failing to comply with the regulations.
mitch_mc_turtle@reddit
If you are Hove to with the sails up you are not "stopped". You are still considered to be sailing. It is very easy to get sailing again from that position and if you have any sort of lookout (which you are obligated to) you have no excuse to not give way if you're the windward boat for example
B5_S4@reddit
Spoken like someone who's never sailed an 80s multihull lol.
WhenWhyandWhere@reddit
NUC is defined very narrowly in the COLREGs in 3(f):
The term vessel not under command means a vessel which through some exceptional circumstance is unable to manoeuvre as required by these Rules and is therefore unable to keep out of the way of another vessel.
Heaving to for snacks would probably not be considered exceptional. If your rudder fell off, that would be more in line with the spirit of the rule. Thatâs not to say you didnât have the right of way under COLREGs or RRS, you probably did. And he sounds like he was in breach of RRS 69, if you really want to get lawyerly on him.
AnchorManSailing@reddit
I certainly understand the logic of what you described, but I'd like some feedback on this, please... a boat adrift (ie: and also hove-to is technically under sail?) is still obligated by COLREGS to give way when nearest to the wind? Is it really not under command? Wouldn't being at anchor, mooring, or run-aground be the only circumstances that would relieve the boat's responsibilities from giving way?
finestgreen@reddit
A boat that's hove-to or voluntarily not making way is not "not under command".
TedwinV@reddit
It's the responsibility of the master of each vessel to determine whether or not his or her vessel is under command, or restricted in ability to maneuver. That being said, it's a little bit easier to understand what each of them means. If you spell out the definition a little further.
A vessel is not under command if, due to some exceptional circumstance, she is unable to comply with the rules. Typically an exceptional circumstance is something related to the vessel being damaged or disabled in some way. Stopping to take a lunch break and heaving to would generally not count. If a collision occurred, that Master would have hard time staying out of hot water in court.
On the other hand, a vessel is restricted in her ability to maneuver if, due to the nature of her work, she is unable to keep out of the way of other vessels. If the master in this case had claimed restricted in ability to maneuver, he might have had a slightly better case. But still a bit shaky. Usually that applies to things like towing something unwieldly, dredging, conducting diving operations, or conducting flight operations.
In any event, if the master determines that his or her vessel is in one of these conditions, they are also obligated to display the appropriate lights or day shapes. As far as the rules are concerned, that Skipper appeared to all the other vessels as a sailing vessel.
B5_S4@reddit
You're welcome to yell starboard at a boat adrift all you want, if there is no helmsman you're going to be disappointed in their failure to give way lol. Not under command trumps all regs unless you really hate your boat and want to collect an insurance payout.
TedwinV@reddit
You are mostly correct. The mnemonic I was always taught was "New Reels Catch Fish So Purchase Some Weekly". This includes some less common vessel types:
Not under command Restricted in ability to maneuver Constrained by draft (international only) Fishing Sailing Power driven Seaplane Wing-in-ground craft
Note also that technically, vessels not under command and restricted in ability to maneuver are in the same category and neither must yield to the other. However, we usually put them in this order for convenience, and because realistically a not under command vessel can't get out of the way.
The_JSQuareD@reddit
Interesting. Why does a seaplane have right of way over a wing-in-ground craft?
finestgreen@reddit
It doesn't - seaplanes, and WIG craft that aren't on the water surface, should keep clear of all vessels:
(e) A seaplane on the water shall, in general, keep well clear of all vessels and avoid impeding their navigation. In circumstances, however, where risk of collision exists, she shall comply with the Rules of this part.
(f)
(i) A WIG craft, when taking off, landing and in flight near the surface, shall keep well clear of all other vessels and avoid impeding their navigation;
(ii) A WIG craft operating on the water surface shall comply with the Rules of this Part as a power-driven vessel
TedwinV@reddit
I don't know the precise answer. Generally the rules prefer to have more maneuverable vessels get out of the way of less maneuverable vessels. Maybe it's that a seaplane can take off and gain altitude? Your best bet to get a real answer would be a reference book like Farwell's Rules of the Nautical Road.
becketsmonkey@reddit
except when the sail is over taking the power
Random-Mutant@reddit
True
sarahlizzy@reddit
Become the stand-on vessel by utilising this one neat trick: presses engine stop button
LateralThinkerer@reddit
I'm going to hoist the "Minesweeping" one on my 14' dinghy just to see what happens...
Throwawaybombsquad@reddit
Hereâs a caĂŻque minesweeping under sail.
LateralThinkerer@reddit
That's pretty cool, though it must have been quite a task to accurately manage a sweep pattern.
Personally I'm just going to wait until they drain the reservoir here (about four weeks from now) and see if there are any stray mines laying in the mud.
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
I mean, I guess anyone can be âminesweepingâ if they want to be. Also does discharging your black water class as âmine layingâ ?
Also in the UK, âminesweepingâ is the term used to describe a person that goes around and drinks the leftover glasses/bottle of alcohol in clubs
LateralThinkerer@reddit
That sounds more like testing for biohazards to me - ugh.
InvisibleTextArea@reddit
What's appropriate for a bilge keeler sat on a sandbank or beach? Anchored, Ran Aground or Restricted Movement?
finestgreen@reddit
Aground (though I doubt anyone does)
InvisibleTextArea@reddit
I'm going to have to buy some extra balls.
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
Or not under command đ
InvisibleTextArea@reddit
Presumably that's only when I have taken the ladder with me to go to the pub?
inComplete-Oven@reddit
Obviously everybody has those onboard... đŹ
a_sist@reddit
I'm sailing 2 - 3 weeks per year in adriatics and am yet to see day shapes. Nobody, I mean NOBODY, uses these. Is adriatic the exception or is it like this all over the world?
JPJackPott@reddit
Thereâs a mistake. The upside down triangle means RYA examiner on board
SgtMarv@reddit
It's the surest way to spot a fellow German in any cove in the med. They're the only ones with a ball up when under anchor.
StuwyVX220@reddit
Not strictly true. We always pop our ball up, Uk flagged. I see a few boats with anchor balls up, UK, German and French. Never a charter boat though.
I always tell people that if anything hits your boat but you didnât have your ball up your insurance will be invalid
MrBournce@reddit
I mean it lays in the locker 24/7 it needs some fresh air too
Zelosys@reddit
Just doing what the SBF told me đĽ˛
-Rizhiy-@reddit
Well, for most of these you wouldn't really see them that often. Commercial vessels are much more likely to need or fly them in general. I sail in the Solent and see them quite frequently.
doyu@reddit
Have also never seen them in my little corner of Atlantic Canada.
DemonsInTheDesign@reddit
A lot of people don't bother around the UK either. I have never seen the cone used for motor sailing. I've seen a few videos of it referenced but mostly like "I should be showing my cone for motor sailing, but I can't be arsed". Saw a post on Facebook the other day of a guy who said he anchored in a bay where a couple of other yachts were showing anchor balls, so he "felt shamed" into hoisting his!
Fishing boats are the opposite. They never take the day shapes down or turn off the fishing lights. I've seen a fishing boat on the hard stand in my marina (it has a 70 odd ton boat lift so they often get local commercial fishing boats using it) with fishing lights on. And not just for testing, they were on day and night the whole time it was there!
mcm87@reddit
People tend to do the thing that gets them better priority. Most sailboats of the WAFI variety never put up the dayshape because they love claiming right of way even when motor sailing. Most fishing boats leave the dayshape and lights up for the same reason.
DemonsInTheDesign@reddit
Yes indeed. I came across a trawler once doing about 2.5 knots from my Port side on a motor ship, CPA was good and I could see his gear down through the binoculars. I watched him haul his gear all the way up and unload the catch, at which point he sped up to the point where risk of collision existed. Did he then alter starboard to pass us port to port now that he was a power driven vessel obligated to give way by the COLREGS? Did he heck!
light24bulbs@reddit
Never seen these before in Northwest US
PMmeyourboatpictures@reddit
You could say that these rules apply to all vessels on the high seas or connected to the high seas navigable by seagoing vessels.
timpeduiker@reddit
They get used in the Netherlands but we have a bit of a different system. (Different shapes and colors) the one for motor sailing pretty much never gets used everything else does
becketsmonkey@reddit
how so? I'd be surprised if the Netherlands isn't a signatory of the IRPCS
timpeduiker@reddit
There is a difference between inland waterways and the rules at sea. I have a lot of experience in the inland waterways and the Wadden Sea (what is classefied as a inland waterway) there they get used quite a bit. But I dont have a lot of experience at sea.
flyingron@reddit
I've seen them down in the Caribbean. Oddly enough, our nominal captain asked me what the black ball on the boat anchored next to us meant.
ralphonsob@reddit
Bottom middle is fog, right?
MrDeviantish@reddit
The ocd graphic designer in me is rashing up. Couldn't find... just... one... more.
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
I left space for comments đ Square over Circle might be a good one to add
kerrmatt@reddit
Or circle over square... Or in Canada "a square shape".
saltwaterjournal@reddit
đ¤Ł
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
đ
mitch_mc_turtle@reddit
I'm talking about a boat with sails up, Hove to. That does not count as not under command
NewReporter5290@reddit
Next time out on my prindle 18 I am raising the minesweeping shape.
sarahlizzy@reddit
Pretty sure the second from the top on the left actually means, âexaminer on boardâ.
LovelyCarrot9144@reddit
Maybe in the blank space add âneed helpâ square over circle. Arguably the most important one!
ProblemBulky26@reddit
I'm going to hoist the minesweeping signal to make all other vessels in the bay uneasy
ppitm@reddit
When sailing in Maine, it is always appropriate to fly the signal in the bottom lefthand corner.
Angry_Sparrow@reddit
I havenât seen these around the pacific at all.
seamus_mc@reddit
this one is easier to remember
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
Funnier
daveythegent@reddit
Most fishing boats I've seen in the UK leave their shapes up at all times, blasting in and out of harbour at will, ha.
becketsmonkey@reddit
The motor sailing cone is generally known as the "examiner on board" day shape in the solent.
martinthedog@reddit
I came here to say that! Also, anchor balls are pretty common around the Solent at least. I would guess that the reason is if someone hits you whilst youâre at anchor, Iâm sure the insurance company will ask if you had your anchor ball up
MongolianCluster@reddit
As I sail closer to see the shapes and then recognize minesweeping.
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
It means âit is safe to follow meâ
Edo1868@reddit
Does anyone know why these are called "day shapes" / etymology of the term? I tried googling but without success.
PMmeyourboatpictures@reddit
It's because you wouldn't be able to see them at night. Lights would be displayed instead at night. Instead of being consistent and calling them night lights, they're just referred to as lights.
pheitkemper@reddit
Because they are the shapes you display during the day, as opposed to the corresponding lights you display at night.
EGOtyst@reddit
This is the most succinct presentation of this data I have ever seen.
mpstr1nger@reddit (OP)
Thanks âşď¸
Laniakea314159@reddit
I love that the minesweeper one appears on your crib sheet. I expect most of us will never see this day shape in person and I also feel like you're right fucked if you're close enough to see a boat engaged in minesweeping
SVAuspicious@reddit
I worked on the design of MCM back in the '80s. If I remember correctly the days shapes were permanently mounted. Even knowing that, seeing a minesweeper gives me the heebie-jeebies.
gnibberish@reddit
Previous owner from Finland had these in the boat. I don't use them, never seen anyone else either. (Swedish waters)
Full-Photo5829@reddit
We have been living aboard our monohull sailboat and cruising the US East Coast & Bahamas for just over two years. I have seen ONE sailboat using the anchor ball and that's it. I've NEVER seen any of the other signs used at all. We do use the anchor ball on our boat in the hopes that, should we be struck by another vessel while anchored, we would have an improved starting point for any legal arguments. Commercial and recreational fishermen are often reckless, thoughtless and put themselves and others in danger. They rarely transmit on AIS; they often don't respond to VHF hails; they set traps inside marked channels; they sometimes operate at night with no lights. The idea that they're going to make any effort to display the correct signs is laughable - I doubt they've even heard about it.
Wooden-Quit1870@reddit
'Fishing' means Nets or Trawls, not trolling.