California police tows Teslas to download Sentry Mode crime recordings
Posted by Two_Shekels@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 251 comments
Posted by Two_Shekels@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 251 comments
BTTWchungus@reddit
This definitely sounds like a constitution violation
iamnotcreativeDET@reddit
100% what other data/video did they access whilst they had access to the vehicle?
BTTWchungus@reddit
Yup. Doesn't matter if they're not using other footage for their investigation, what matters is that they still had to view it to get through the clip they want.
Obecny75@reddit
Just because they view it, doesn't mean it can be used against anyone..... evidence gets thrown out all the time.
Special-Lengthiness6@reddit
4th Amendment says the police shouldn't do it in the first place.
Obecny75@reddit
It's one thing if they were towing the car, watching the videos, then charging the owners with crimes. They quite literally could not do that.
They can absolutely view the videos to see evidence of crimes they are already investigating that the car may have witnessed.
DemBananaz@reddit
This is an old thread, but I stumbled onto it looking into a recent news story. I’m curious what gives you confidence that they couldn’t charge the owner for crimes discovered during the process of viewing footage. It’s not like they’re surrendering the content under some immunity agreement, especially when the vehicle is being seized under a warrant in the first place.
I’m not a lawyer, but I would imagine this would fall under the plain view doctrine. If through the course of a valid 4th amendment search (in this case with a warrant from a judge), evidence is uncovered (even of unrelated crimes) it is generally admissible under the doctrine. If police show up at your house to ask about a crime, and when you open the door they see a bag of drugs on the table, not only can they charge you for it, but they can use it as justification for further warrants or investigations.
Plan view is even well established to extend to sounds and smells, as well. I believe it’s even a successful justification for evidence if the original activity wasn’t warranted, but executed in good faith (e.g. they serve a warrant on the wrong house and discover evidence in the process).
I believe to suppress evidence obtained from a casual viewing of the footage, you’d have to either prove that the original basis for seizing the vehicle was invalid and in bad faith (a challenging endeavor), or prove that they were purposely viewing footage outside of what was relevant for their initial cause. In the latter case they’d probably just argue that they “stumbled” upon it.
Plus it’s unlikely that the warrant was narrow enough in the first place to restrict them to just viewing the relevant time because it’s not like the courts are bending over backwards to protect the 4th amendment, or privacy.
Regardless of the success rate for suppressing this type of evidence, I suspect they could, and most likely would, charge the owner at the very least.
Rena1-@reddit
What if I'm a musk bro and always jerk off to my Tesla before going to sleep? They will have to watch that.
Shotgun_Sentinel@reddit
The horror they must endure to watch a guy stroke his mutilated dick is an unfortunate part of the job.
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sasami93@reddit
Noted, sir, ill raise the quality of my jokes from here on out.
Available-Reveal-759@reddit
rent free
Obecny75@reddit
Yes but they are also probably into that
SqotCo@reddit
As long as they are getting a warrant which per the linked article the cops are...it's constitutional.
It's still icky though. Conversely Amazon just hands over Ring camera footage on demand without a warrant, which is why I’ve never bought one.
BTTWchungus@reddit
Right but the problem is that the owner isn't notified of the fact. These officers are getting warrants because they don't want to wait and look around to contact the owner.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
This is definitely a slippery slope but again they did go through the proper procedures. There’s no timeline to wait to get a warrant because the recording may only last a day or less. And warrants aren’t always signed immediately. And then there’s the fact that this is for a murder, which if you are going to do this, this would be the best reason to.
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
What about stealing someone’s car is proper procedure?
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
They are not stealing the car. They are getting a warrant to give them permission by a judge to move the car to a safe location. Then they got another warrant signed by a judge that would give them permission to enter the car and retrieve the video from the thumbdrive. Then the car would be returned to the owner.
Creative-Run5180@reddit
What if it's the person's only car and they need to go to work? Will the cops give the person a free ride without handcuffs?
Zackxess@reddit
That's what I'm wondering. Most ppl with Telsas have money, but not all do. If someone got a loan for one that they can barely afford, then they definitely wouldn't have the money to get an Uber every day to work, grocery store, take kids places ect. And no insurance is going to pay for a rental in this situation either. If they end up taking their sweet time it could result in someone loosing their job, house and the car itself as you would be expected to keep paying the loan despite not having access to it to get to work. Hopefully, they give the car back the same day, but if it's like other evidence in murder cases, they most times never get it back.
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
Right, but they took something that didn’t belong to them without notifying the owner or obtaining their permission. That’s like the definition of stealing.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
You clearly do not know how warrants work but you keep thinking you have any say on your belongings when a warrant has been issued stating that the police/whoever has the right to it.
Xin_shill@reddit
Let me right a note that says i can take your stuff and give it back when i'm done. There all legal now. Laws are written by men and can be amended/changes when they are abused.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
This isn’t abuse, this is literally how they are meant to be. But I am don’t explaining this over and over.
Xin_shill@reddit
Depriving someone of their means to get to work or hospital etc is nuts. Now they have to get a ride or pay to get to where their vehicle is because police don’t want to be inconvenienced to speak to the owner. “Meant to be” brah it’s the law it can be changed. What is meant to be lol
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
I know how warrants work. Usually they’re for the arrest of a person suspected of committing a crime or to search the property of someone suspected of committing a crime. Not usually are they used to steal the legally acquired property of a law abiding citizen. It allows the police to legally steal property. What exactly am I missing here?
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
So you don’t fully understand them.
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
So then answer my question. What exactly am I missing here?
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
All because they are usually not for those situations, doesn’t mean that it’s any different. The car is being treated just like a cellphone, laptop, computer, or even a safe. They were going to move it to a secure location that should have surveillance video. Then they would get into the car to get the video file. Obviously if the owner is around is a different story. Owner is around police can just ask him for the video file. Now if the owner said no, this is the route that would again be taken. The court order would mandate the owner to provide to video file. It is not stolen, no matter what you think. Now if the police take the car or anything without a search warrant (situation dictates) then yes it would be theft but that’s not what this is nor what serving a warrant is. Otherwise an arrest warrant would be “kidnapping” someone, which is not.
Special-Lengthiness6@reddit
It's legalized theft, which is slightly different from illegal theft. Either way, they seized the vehicle in the suspicion that the car might have evidence without actually verifying that the car had the evidence.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
That’s usually how search warrants work. A lot of search warrants are based on information received or circumstantial evidence that leads them to believe that more than likely the evidence is in whatever place you put in the warrant. If you are watching a dealer you would put that information in the warrant. You need to show the judge why you believe whatever item is in that place. In this case they saw that a Tesla that has recording capabilities was near the area of the Homicide. Do they know for sure that it recorded the incident, nope but there’s enough evidence to show that it might have been, and the judge agreed.
Special-Lengthiness6@reddit
So this is theft nine the hopes that it might contain evidence without actually checking to see if the vehicle contained evidence. Definitely a 4th Amendment violation.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
Checking prior to see if the evidence is there in this case would be a violation. It a digital recording in a car. For them to definitively know that it recorded anything they would need to break into the car. That’s literally how warrants work, you get a warrant so you can LEGALLY search the car. This is why people get in trouble, thinking they know the law.
some_guy_on_drugs@reddit
Towing a car isn't always gentle, lots can go wrong both mechanically and cosmetically.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
That may be correct and that would be on the tow company. But that still doesn’t equate to theft
hankbobstl@reddit
I mean, if I came out to my car and it's gone, id probably think it was stolen, and that's what I would tell 911 and my insurance when I called them. In the twisted legal dictionary it might not be called "theft" when the police do it, but that's what happened.
LouBerryManCakes@reddit
If your car is repo'd or seized by the police, when you call 911 to report it stolen they will have the information on file to tell you where the car is and who to call. It happens every day.
some_guy_on_drugs@reddit
No, but a warrant for the data shouldn't result in a seizure. It should require the owner to provide the data. They shouldn't get to seize the property just because its a car.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
I don’t disagree but that’s not the case yet. They get treated similar, especially now that cars are becoming more and more like cellphones
ArdiMaster@reddit
Here in Germany, if police seize your electronics, they might as well be stolen because you won’t get them back for years to come.
I hope California police is quicker in these cases.
MNAAAAA@reddit
Sounds like we should push to make it not legal, then
Imprezzed@reddit
Another reason why you don’t own things, you have a licence to use it at the manufacturers pleasure.
Hieryonimus@reddit
This is might be one of the key factors that it will come down to if pursued legally, I'd wager. Interesting to see what Elon's reaction will be if anything happens with this approach 🤔
Imprezzed@reddit
I can’t even begin to tell you how little I think of that bloated anal polyp, and it sickens me that he has so much influence.
kartoffel_engr@reddit
That’s why I make sure I’ve got a couple shots of my nuts in the Ring database. Want to come through my footage? Check out deez.
lololyouthought@reddit
That's why I don't cover my webcam
Killbot_Wants_Hug@reddit
Not all warrants are constitutional. I don't know if that one would be or not.
If it were unconstitutional it would probably be a 4th amendment violation. So it would be up to a court to decide if that's a reasonable search and seizure. And as I recall cars do get a fair amount of protection, not as much as your house but it gets more than just some random area.
hkscfreak@reddit
Especially if sentry mode is disabled. Definitely a 4th amendment violation, they can't assume the footage is there.
MackDiesel@reddit
It has to pass the reasonable person test. If a reasonable person would assume sentry mode is enabled by default, this wouldn't get tossed as a 4th amendment violation.
lethalmanhole@reddit
Me, a reasonable person, doesn't think towing a vehicle to access remote video is reasonable.
itsPebbs@reddit
Wouldn’t be the first one from the state of California
Arc_Ulfr@reddit
I'm not sure why you're singling out California; shit like this happens all the time regardless of state.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
What?? There's no expectation of privacy in public. As long as the crimes are in plain view, it's in the clear. Also, this is right in the article:
dangerousdesi221@reddit
respectfully what does that have to do with seizing your car. if some dumb ass TikTok influencers recording me in the back of their video that’s what no expectation of privacy in public means,
stealing my car from a parking lot “because you got a warrant” is just stealing.
What if they damage your car when they’re towing it? they need to get inside the center consul or the glove box to get the USB so what they’re going to rifle through your car as well?
this is the lack of privacy I can expect if I ever drive my car outside my garage?
and if you read the article you’d see that this cop literally rolled up to a parking lot, hit up a judge and “kindly requested that the vehicle be seized.”
in this scenario the warrant is just a formality to have a record of the violation of your property 😂
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
You free to have an ultra-a*archist opinion, but don't pretend you're making a constitutional analysis. The fourth amendment explicitly states that seizures can occur if probable cause is explained to a judge and the judge issues a warrant authorizing such. I never said you have to like it.
dangerousdesi221@reddit
whiteboyinchat. the only person claiming that i’m performing a constitutional analysis is you.
i’m talking about right and wrong, glaringly obvious occasions for them to go beyond the actual scope of their “search and seizure” without anyone knowing what they did.
police and judges in california are known to be severely incompetent, sometimes even corrupt. if you really think they’re not going to go through your car, the rest of your footage, etc, you’re just naive. and even if you want to argue that’s “just a hypothetical”, who the fuck keeps the cops accountable and has proof that they only did what they were supposed to do? because cops are famous for religiously enforcing the law without extending beyond their purview?
the slippery slope of allowing this leads to much scarier things.
a criminal ran by your ring camera? sorry your house is a crime scene you can’t go inside until we open your laptop login to your amazon and check your ring account.
you can say that this sounds ridiculous, but guess what?! this is literally what they’re doing with the damn car.
i’m not advocating for hiding the fucking footage, but what they did and want to do is a GROSS ABUSE OF POWER and a HORRIBLE PRECEDENT to allow.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
I apologize for thinking you were talking about the constitution when you wrote about the constitution.
Where are you finding that the judge or police were incompetent or corrupt in this case?
It's not a slippery slope. It's been the standard for hundreds of years.
If there was no other way to gather the information, this is a possibility.
WarDEagle@reddit
This is r/cars. Go argue about this crap somewhere else.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Shouldn't this entire thread be nuked then?
dangerousdesi221@reddit
sorry :( should have shut up a long time ago!
GiraffeNeckBreak@reddit
You literally have no clue what you’re talking about. Sorry your internet degree won’t suffice with constitutional law.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
What did I just say that was wrong?
longboringstory@reddit
"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."
It's the "probable cause" that is the concern.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Why are you assuming the judges dd not require probable causes when issuing the warrants?
longboringstory@reddit
You're correct, it's an assumption, but am definitely curious what probably cause there would be of a crime committed by the owner of the Tesla.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
You misunderstand how probable cause works. They don't need probable cause to believe the owner of the Tesla committed a crime. They just need probable cause that the Tesla contains evidence pertinent to the crime. The same logic applies to security cameras on commercial properties or video doorbells.
pauperoncini@reddit
No, Tesla cars, much like the AR-15, are note explicitly spelled out in the constitution, so they have no protections.
gumol@reddit
things don't have to be explicitly spelled out in the constitution to be protected by it.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
From the article:
They have a warrant to seize the property.
dangerousdesi221@reddit
i’m confused why everyone keeps parroting this point that they need to “get a warrant” and a “court order”
all of the other concerns of them looking through the rest of your car and then just seizing your car when you might need it and then seizing your private property in general are still valid.
just because some judge said it’s OK doesn’t just make the whole thing OK, my mind is melting from seeing the cope in this thread.
this is California these are the same judges who let off all the damn criminals. (i live here)
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
That's how the entire American criminal justice system has worked from basically the very beginning. It's even stated explicitly in the US Constitution
You're free to disagree as a matter of opinion, but not as a matter of the law as it exists in the United States.
GiraffeNeckBreak@reddit
What sort of legal education do you claim to have?
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Did you reply to this thread be accident? Nobody here said anything at all about education.
GiraffeNeckBreak@reddit
Do you even know how warrants work? Clearly not. You’re gonna need a bit more google law school to dig yourself out of this stupid hole!
gimpwiz@reddit
I presume that's a shitpost, no need to reply seriously.
pauperoncini@reddit
Captain's log: They're onto me.
Krankjanker@reddit
Did you miss the part if the article where they are obtaining search warrants to conduct the searches?
Lawfulness_Character@reddit
Police get unconstitutional warrants all the time.
Krankjanker@reddit
I'd love to see the data to back that up. Surely you are aware that if a signed warrant were somehow "unconstitutional", it would require a Superior Court Judge to have stated that it was constitutional...
Lawfulness_Character@reddit
So your argument is that they got a warrant in response to someone saying it sounds like a constitutional violation, and then say that warrants don't have to be constitutional?
--
The cops in the Breonna Taylor case used information they knew was false to obtain a warrant. And then killed her. And then said it was her boyfriends fault not theirs.
Having a warrant has nothing to do with whether the search actually violates the constitution, we just have a police system that ignores the constitution.
420blzit69daddy@reddit
lol no no the argument is that it’s constitutional until proven otherwise, the LEO equivalent of innocent until proven guilty.
Espre550@reddit
Bet you wouldn’t care if it was a murder of your family member though right?
BTTWchungus@reddit
If that was the case, might as well break all the fucking rules at that point
Grow up
Espre550@reddit
Breaking what rules? If a judge wants to grant the order it’s legal.
You honestly think the cops are going to go through the trouble of towing a car (then worry about storing it, releasing it ect ect) if they could simply get a hold of the owner first and get the owner to provide the footage?
Where do you draw the line? A mass shooting, a terrorist attack? If a tesla is going to be able to provide footage that might prevent further deaths then it’s a necessary thing.
You know for a fact you would want the data if it was one of your family members killed.
memostothefuture@reddit
they are making that one phone call for a tow truck because it's less trouble for them.
Espre550@reddit
That requires a court order which is a tonne of paperwork. It has to be booked into the police systems and they have to organise a locksmith to unlock the car then they have to organise to collect the data then release the car.
Wayyyy easier to get the owner to willingly hand over the footage.
memostothefuture@reddit
They should get a court order but they simply order the tow. And yes, I did put thought into this, as well as read what actually happened. Which you did not.
Espre550@reddit
“In a new twist, the police now not only obtain a warrant to seize a Tesla car to a secure location when it can’t locate the owner, but the officers then get a court order to download the footage.”
Am i missing something here?
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truthputer@reddit
You’re not wrong at all, Reddit is just populated by a bunch of incel children who pee their pants at the slightest inconvenience necessary for a functioning society.
Espre550@reddit
Nah mate, he told me to grow up. It’s actually me who is the incel child.
Flashy-Marketing-167@reddit
Only if they failed to get a warrant.
cwfutureboy@reddit
Cops don't give a fuck.
TempleSquare@reddit
Prosecutors have to. Sloppy cop work means all the evidence gets tossed.
TheDrunkenMatador@reddit
What amendment was violated?
BTTWchungus@reddit
Probably 4th amendment
JoshS1@reddit
I would say taking someone's primary transportation; that is most likely their method of getting to work as unreasonable. Disclaimer: I'm not a supreme court justice that hates America.
amd2800barton@reddit
What I don’t understand is why they have to tow the car for this. Doesn’t Tesla have access to the recordings remotely? Why aren’t they just serving Tesla with a warrant to pull the recordings? Why go through with the tow?
ChairmanJim@reddit
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects,[a] against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Crystal9331@reddit
So the copes are stealing people's cars. That's not right! That Definitely has to be against someone's constitutional rights! Can you imagine going shopping for food and you come out of the store and your car is gone. The police took it because someone beat another person up and ran away. Or someone car got broken into. Or there was a drive by shooting across the street or anything crime wise. That's not right! Idk why anyone would buy a car that looks like the car on back to the Future car anyway. It's ugly.
shortcategory1389@reddit
In case anyone is curious how much data your car is sharing, enter your VIN:
https://vehicleprivacyreport.com/
xxMegasteel32xx@reddit
this is why I won't own a car newer than like 2012
BlackDS@reddit
I wonder how much information my 1993 Geo Tracker is sharing
Pleasant_Reaction_10@reddit
It's sharing it's oil with the ground. leaking data
Wicaeed@reddit
Well it's right in the name at least!
Relative-Trust-9115@reddit
This is a slippery slope. While it's great that Sentry Mode can help solve crimes, it also raises serious privacy concerns. Is it really necessary for police to tow cars to access footage? Shouldn't there be a more streamlined process that respects the owner's rights?
ulikescience@reddit
Like I get it. Police obtain video footage from businesses and their security cameras all the time (at least that's what Law & Order has taught me) but jeebus.
Thunder_Wasp@reddit
They should be able to subpoena the footage and I'm sure Tesla can download it remotely without having to tow the car.
Jupiter-Tank@reddit
They absolutely can! I had an accident in 2023 in which our 2022 X ultimately lost the 12v battery and infotainment. I called tesla to find out how to access the glove box to retrieve the USB without the infotainment, and they had no user-friendly answer (I later learned you can unscrew 3 bolts in the side panel). They did however offer to attempt to pull the footage from the car remotely, which failed, but did show me they have a means to get said footage if the car isn’t shut down in such a manner
SuperSimpleSam@reddit
Someone with a Tesla that had an accident said there was an option to get 10mins of power with a "jump start" to open doors and such. You have to apply the power to the fuse box.
Thunder_Wasp@reddit
Yes I suspect this might be the result of older cops/judges who don't know about the remote connectivity features of the Tesla and just wrote a search warrant to seize the whole car for evidence. It reminds me of the cops who were pulling over Model 3's to give the drivers tickets for the stock center screen.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
I don’t think Tesla can but I could be wrong. From my understanding this is a feature that the owner has to activate and as was mentioned, all footage is stored onto a USB drive and not internally.
i_was_a_highwaymann@reddit
https://www.reuters.com/technology/tesla-workers-shared-sensitive-images-recorded-by-customer-cars-2023-04-06/
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
From everything I read this states that they can get some videos/pics but they aren’t attached with your car’s info or the owners. So they couldn’t just request videos from a particular vehicle.
HelloYouSuck@reddit
That’s what they say but I really doubt it’s true.
HNL2BOS@reddit
I highly doubt they designed the tumb drive to not be connected to a part of the cars externally accessable network.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
I don’t know the answer as I don’t own one but I’m sure someone here has the answer. I would imagine that if Tesla can access it remotely then so could an owner, which again I don’t know.
Oh_ffs_seriously@reddit
They don't brick up the entrances to those businesses until they acquire the footage, though.
euvie@reddit
How common is it for cops to forcibly enter a closed business to seize their DVR, especially without even talking to the owner?
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Yeah but asking for a tape is different than stealing the privately owned car of a citizen
durrtyurr@reddit
I managed a grocery store before, giving camera recordings to the police was a weekly task. People have a really bad habit of playing bumper cars in grocery parking lots.
meodd8@reddit
My main issue is that it removes access to someone’s primary means of transportation for an extended period of time, but I suppose this is an already sorted issue for scenarios where someone’s car is physically part of a crime scene.
bwoah_gimmethedrink@reddit
That's California for you right there. Definitely NOT a great place to live despite great weather.
Arc_Ulfr@reddit
Do you think anywhere else in the US is better? You can find judges and police in every state who will absolutely pull shit like this.
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BAQ717@reddit
Send this all the way to the Supreme Court. Government is out of control.
totallybag@reddit
Do you really trust the current supreme court to not side with this shit?
bgarza18@reddit
A conservative leaning court would totally be against government intrusion. This is happening in California, a non-conservative state lol
tatsumakisenpuukyaku@reddit
California is a pretty conservative state. Its like the crown jewel of capitalism and individual liberty. People think California is Sweden or something lol
thememeconnoisseurig@reddit
Californians are fiscally conservative and socially progressive
Astramael@reddit
Fiscally conservative is actually socially conservative in disguise. Californians like to pretend to be socially progressive.
totallybag@reddit
Ah yes the police always known for being on the same side of the political spectrum as the state they are in.......
bgarza18@reddit
Oh man, who lets them get away with it? Couldn’t be the government, right?
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
It’s the voters. Conservative voters don’t care if police overreach.
Look at the flack people got for criticism of police for the last 100 years lmao.
Also scotus is the gov. Good lord.
bgarza18@reddit
Are conservative voters driving policy in California metros?
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
In terms of law enforcement at the local level? Yes.
California metros are not all far left. Not sure why people pretend like they are.
And again; scotus is the government. You ignored that.
bgarza18@reddit
SCOTUS rules on challenges brought up well after the implementation of local governmental policies, you forgot that
DaggumTarHeels@reddit
Yes that is how appellate courts work.
Your claim was this;
https://old.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/1f5vl77/california_police_tows_teslas_to_download_sentry/lkwc705/
I’m saying it’s incorrect.
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HedonisticFrog@reddit
They'd rule all video is guilty until proven innocent like property is or some nonsense like that.
GreenGrandmaPoops@reddit
Or they’ll justify their decision by using precedent established during the Salem Witch Trials.
HedonisticFrog@reddit
Or citing history and traditions of medieval England.
YoMamasMama89@reddit
Just show them a case where a politician is caught committing a crime for them to rule the other direction
orhantemerrut@reddit
Some people watched or read too many mediocre dystopia shows or books. This is something a 14-year-old would say after finishing 1984. I'm not even sure you know what "government" is.
BAQ717@reddit
4th amendment. Goofball.
Snazzy21@reddit
Too bad the SupCo is out of control. They'd rule that since it was an official act done for law enforcement reasons, everything has the green light, erasing decades of police reform
thememeconnoisseurig@reddit
Can we please stop with these ridiculous abbreviations? What the fuck is a SupCo? SoDoSoPa looking ass
idksomuch@reddit
SupCo - Soup Company, a start up company that makes soup in San Francisco, obvi.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
On what basis? Nothing in this article suggests anything improper happened. Did you read it?
BAQ717@reddit
Clear violation of the 4th amendment.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Again: On what basis?
This article says that the searches were conducted with a warrant from a judge, something which the 4th amendment explicitly allows.
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CarbonTail@reddit
It was never was in control. Founders would be turning in their graves.
Itsa-Lotus49@reddit
you're adorable
Wicaeed@reddit
I'd say this deserves more of a distinction than "Government" being out of control.
This seems more like an overzealous police force spurred on by a prosecutorial office that needs to be reigned in, with appropriate punishments for abuse of power doled out to those who deserve it.
jacob6875@reddit
This is kind of silly.
A lot of Tesla owners don't even keep Sentry on. Especially at a home or work location since it uses around 300 watts of power to run.
Seems like a giant waste of time and money to just randomly tow them and get a warrant for the footage.
99% of people would provide the footage to them if asked.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Who says it's happening randomly? The article explicitly stated that they are getting warrants.
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
Pretty random for the person whose car was stolen from them with no notice.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Did you read the article before commenting?
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
How can you not locate the owner? You just wait for them to come back to the car.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Ah yes, just wait indefinitely.
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
Or call them. Go to there house. I don’t believe the police couldn’t locate this person.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Based on what?
AOC-has-big-milkers@reddit
Basic logic?
8P69SYKUAGeGjgq@reddit
Did you read what you copy/pasted? "When it can't locate the owner" aka, the owner has no idea.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Okay? Thanks for sharing?
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
That’s literally just stealing your car. No subpoena, no warrant. The only reason normal towing isn’t theft is that you either 1. Don’t actually own the car or 2. Put in on ground that belongs to somebody else without their permission.
V12MPG@reddit
From the article:
tacomonday12@reddit
Cool, time to upload a script to github that formats the usb drive whenever certain sensors pick up the "signs" of a police vehicle towing it.
hutacars@reddit
Except if police tow it, I really wanna see/keep that footage….
tacomonday12@reddit
If it's in California, this would be legal and you wouldn't get anything from that footage though. What you could do is destroy their reason for taking your car in the first place.
hutacars@reddit
I imagine I would capture them damaging my car, as they always do. But even if not,
If nothing else, that would be great.
Richandler@reddit
All the snake in the grass flag people showed up on this topic. This isn't any different than what they've been doing for years where businesses usually have some form of security camera and police are trying to solve a crime.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
You sound like the kind of dude who would hand his own mothers pacemaker over to the police if it had evidence on it
Richandler@reddit
What does that even mean?
What the hell does a pacemaker have to do with a vehicle with security footage? What drugs are you on?
Gail__Wynand@reddit
Yeah, but do the police ask the dude at the corner deli for the footage or steal the whole bodega until they finish reviewing the video? This is so vastly different from the normal policy of asking business owners for their surveillance footage. They are literally stealing your car when it's absolutely not necessary.
dangerousdesi221@reddit
there are extreme levels of cope in this thread, types of dudes to hand over their families to the government when they come knocking.
Itsa-Lotus49@reddit
ok dramaqueen. enjoy your slippery slope
Richandler@reddit
It's 100% necessary when footage expries and they know this. It's not like they do it without asking. If a store owner refused the police or locked up their store for a week the police would get a warrent exactly the same way.
tacomonday12@reddit
So you support the govt harassing private citizens because they couldn't negotiate properly with tesla?
Time to start making countermeasures to wipe the drive whenever the police try to tow these Teslas. Let's see how they deal with the owners applying that solution to fuck them over.
Fit_Equivalent3610@reddit
It's fine, I'm sure they compensate the owners for any out of pocket costs and lost wages or other consequential damages! /s
Imagine you have to pay ambulance fees to get your pregnant wife to the hospital because the cops stole your car lmao. Or you miss work, or they break your glove box getting it open, or whatever.
I wouldnt be surprised if they charge exorbitant tow and storage fees too.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
Don’t read much huh. Read the article and then come back to delete this comment.
MaybeNext-Monday@reddit
If you weren’t so snide I’d consider it, but now I’m keeping it up for the express purpose of misinformation.
XMAN2YMAN@reddit
Go ahead, be the example the world needs
V12MPG@reddit
Well that turns a cool feature into a giant liability rather quickly.
HettySwollocks@reddit
This happens far more frequently than I'd like. Have CCTV to monitor your home, the authorities can sieze any footage you have stored (look at the ring doorbell fiasco).
Same story with dashcams and trackers you may use. Insurance firms are already getting a hardon by tracking how you drive - government, at least in this country, are toying with the idea of taxing your per mile driven.
You know who doesn't have these cameras, trackers etc. Criminals. Basically fucking over law abiding citizens.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
The person who nearly killed me in a DUI was a law-abiding citizen right up to the second she decided to get in a car after getting shitfaced. Contrary to what the NRA may fantasize about, it's not like we have some tattoo on each of us that neatly segregates us into "law abiding citizens" or not.
Not even getting into the discussion about the social context of crime either...
HettySwollocks@reddit
Not entirely sure what you're suggesting here? It's totally acceptable to force owners to release their own footage?
Fine.. Wont bother with trackers or cameras then.
I, like you, have encountered pissheads at the wheel. It's not an excuse to remove our freedoms.
Castle_Bravo_Test@reddit
I'm from the government. I'm here to help.
DudeWhereIsMyDuduk@reddit
Yeah, Ohio was much better when rivers spontaneously burst into toxic flames. /s
FenPhen@reddit
This idea is meant to pay for road maintenance when electric vehicles are paying no gas tax, which is an indirect mileage tax. Electric cars are often heavier too, which pound the roads more.
Of course, there need to be ways to measure mileage without reporting location and time.
California is running a pilot program to see if this can work, where taxpayers can either use an OBD-II reader, a vehicle's onboard telematics, or submit odometer photos. You get credited back for gas tax paid during the pilot.
The OBD-II option lets you choose whether to use GPS tracking or not. Without GPS tracking, all mileage including out-of-state gets taxed, whereas with GPS tracking only tracks in California tax-funded areas.
Odometer photos seems to be open to abuse, though this is similar to mileage reports for car insurance renewal.
Maybe there could be an option for service techs to report the mileage, similar to the way smog checks are done. Or pay a flat tax with registration renewal if you do none of the mileage options.
HettySwollocks@reddit
I have zero idea why electric cars are villainized. Appreciate you're American so the same considerations don't apply.
Here back in the 2000's everyone was 'encouraged' to move to Diesel vehicles as they were believed to be cleaneer, there was a huge uptake. Some years later there was a huge 180 turn where Diesels are now enemy number one across europe. Prices of those vehicles dropped like a stone. Enter emissions regulations in cities, now those very same vehicles are essentially uneconomical (and that's unselling it by some margin) to drive - they are now good for scrap.
Electric vehicles come along, the government offered a very healthy grant towards their purchase cost (of which was naturally absorbed by the manufacturers) plus zero road tax (and of course fuel). The incentive worked, there are now a shit ton of EVs on the road, and you're right, they are heavy, powerful and need a lot of infrastructure.
So the government are panicing again. That's where tracking comes from. The department for transport already captures miles driven, every annual inspection requires it - and it's public information, you can jump on a website on any vehicle on the road and see it's history.
I have zero issue with appropriate taxation, but this is nothing more than control. Our roads are funded from general taxation there is no such thing as "road tax" or other specific endevours. Funnily enough one of our major lobbiests has actually asked the government to raise fuel duty prices because forecourts are adjusting their prices to consume that subsidy.
In America it wont work because the country is too large, in Europe we need to be making our roads safe for cyclists and various other alt. vehicles - and this is coming from a hardened car guy.
FenPhen@reddit
California doesn't have this, which is why they're thinking about a mileage tax. Internal combustion vehicles need to do "smog checks" every 2 years, but electric vehicles don't have inspection requirements.
I'd personally be in favor of inspections for all vehicles and assessing mileage tax that way, and then remove the gas tax so it's fair.
DayGlobal5653@reddit
That's literally everything they tell you is convenient
MuteToFart@reddit
Literally everything? Locking doors are a giant liability? Seatbelts? Folding mirrors?
Cochise22@reddit
I mean, I can make an argument can be made about locking doors at the very least. Cost me like 700 bucks back in 2008 to fix my car after thieves broke in, but there was nothing to be stolen inside the car.
Interesting_Remote18@reddit
"the police now not only obtain a warrant to seize a Tesla car to a secure location when it can't locate the owner"
Are they even trying to locate the owner, there are several resources they can use on their agency issued laptop to find the owner of a vehicle but instead let's waste time and money getting a search warrant and having it towed.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
What makes you so sure they didn't try that first?
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Because a Tesla with sentry mode activated can only last a few days without charging. It’s not some random scrap car abandoned on the side of the road
You’d easily be able to get a hold of the owner
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Is that even true? Cameras and digital storage consume a trivial amount of power compared to the drivetrain.
There are still plenty of situations that could make the owner hard to reach in time. They could be dead or somehow incapacitated. They could be traveling abroad. The criminal investigation could be an emergency.
There are really just no details in this article to actually get upset about. It would have been nice to see some specific people or investigations identified.
hutacars@reddit
TBF, a) they don’t know Sentry is even activated, and b) it’ll shut off at 20% SoC anyways. So it could just be an abandoned car for all they know.
dangerousdesi221@reddit
The fact that they’re even doing this. Contacting the owners should be the only fucking way they can get footage off the damn car.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
That's not how it has ever worked in the United States, I'm sorry. Are there any countries on earth that never authorize searches and seizures?
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
How is this even allowed? Imagine having to go to an doctors appointment, work, a date or something important, you walk out of our house and you discover your car got towed away because they wanted the footage on the car.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
From the article:
KungFuActionJesus5@reddit
The article then follows up by giving an account of an owner who was occupied and came back just in time to stop their car getting towed by handing over footage voluntarily. Does "can't locate the owner" mean "i tried calling them once and they didn't pick up" or does it mean "we called, emailed, contacted family members over a several week period and they didn't respond?"
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
Let me know what you find! Unfortunately this article is extremely light on details. It doesn't name any specific car owners, specific criminal investigations, or specific criminal charges.
KeyboardGunner@reddit
I think we all know it means "There's nobody sitting in the car, let's tow this baby".
itsPebbs@reddit
California is a nanny state and its residents vote for it every election. Don’t know why anyone is surprised.
dinnernoodles@reddit
So they are getting warrants to seize evidence when they cannot get consent from the owner... Just like any other piece of evidence. Also, what your car's external camera sees parked in a public area has next to no reasonable expectation of privacy of the owner.
Calm down reddit, your rights are not being violated here.
Independent-Owl2782@reddit
Don't know the whole story, but I hope they got a court order before they did that. I would be Moore than way passed off if they didn't
Castle_Bravo_Test@reddit
1983 has been an interesting year. I wonder what wonderful things next year will bring. I'm so excited for what's coming.
zwandee@reddit
What happens to the owner who just wants to move around? This makes vehicle sucurity feel like a crime. I can't wait to see the backlash.
bpnj@reddit
How do they even know sentry mode was enabled? I literally have that feature turned off 100% of the time so it’s not recording.
Masterleon@reddit
Pretty easy to tell. Walk up to the car and the lights flash and the screen literally says in full screen "Sentry Recording" or something along those lines
p90rushb@reddit
Sounds like you're covering up potential future crimes. Straight to jail!
BadRegEx@reddit
Better tow your car just in case to be sure.
We're going to need you to pay the tow bill too, /u/bpnj. It's your car after all.
truthputer@reddit
There sure are a bunch of whining babies here hyperventilating about slippery slopes that don’t exist, when catching criminals is exactly what sentry mode is intended for.
The original article - which is slightly less clickbaity - talks about a car recording a murder. And it wasn’t even towed because the driver came back to the car. And after getting the video they were able to arrest the suspect based on the recording. The article also talks about three other cars being involved as evidence after a different mass shooting and murder.
So: good. I hope the police can continue to make use of technology and cameras to solve crimes and put murderers in prison.
AmNoSuperSand52@reddit
Sentry mode is intended for capturing damage done to the car itself
For most people, their car is the means by which they get around and earn a living; the police taking that due to zero fault of the owner is a serious issue
KeyboardGunner@reddit
It's not even clear from the article where that vehicle ends up. Do they leave it in a tow yard? If the police these police/judges are willing to take innocent citizens cars then I don't put it past them to also stick them with a fat impound fee.
michaelrulaz@reddit
How does that boot taste?
rjuked@reddit
oh yikes
Bassracerx@reddit
Wow screw that. Why isnt the data encrypted? Im never getting a car with cameras or sentry mode or whatever.
motorik@reddit
When did the Oakland police start trying to solve crimes?
The_Cat_Commando@reddit
When there is probably evidence of them committing crimes on the tesla lol
Everyone's assuming they took it to solve and not cover up a crime. Bold assumption with American police.
Anonasty@reddit
Land of the free? "Yeah we are going to take your car because we need it more"
Beneficial_Permit308@reddit
Wtf
MichiganGeezer@reddit
I'm surprised Tesla doesn't have a way to lock the system down until certain conditions are met.
"Sorry, your honor. The only way to extract the data is for the owner to bring it to a Tesla authorized service center and unlock it with their thumb print while it's connected to our computers."
Add it as a feature to lock everything out once the car senses it's being towed. It locks EVERYTHING except the brakes until the owner frees it.
nucleartime@reddit
The people that bought a car that records everything around it and uploads it to Tesla servers are probably not the most privacy focused people.
ilkopo@reddit
So would anyone with a dashcam visible be subject to their car being towed? Because it might have witnessed something?
I have my dashcams running full time on cars I drive every day.
Damage done by the tow and search is probably your responsibility too, having never even committed or been suspected of any crime.
PBP2024@reddit
Dashcams....try the multiple cameras on every phone nowadays. Take and hold the phone in a secure location until they get the warrant to look for the data they "need" and they promise not to look at anything else
PBP2024@reddit
Tesla needs to offer customers encryption so nobody can get it including Tesla.
PBP2024@reddit
Sentry mode can be turned on or off so what if the owner isn't around, car is in their driveway and they come back to it gone? How can this even be used as a way to get a warrant? Totally unconstitutional. With this logic they should be able to confiscate any phone in a geographical area since it "could have recorded" whatever it is they are investigating.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
ITT people who didn't read the article.
e30kid@reddit
Insane number of police glazers in these comments lol
SqotCo@reddit
Another reason besides Elon being a fascist twat to not buy a Tesla.
WhiteNamesInChat@reddit
This also applies to dashcams, so I hope you never got around to completing your purchase a few weeks ago.
SqotCo@reddit
Seriously that comment about dashcams was 3 weeks ago. What the fuck is wrong with you fucking incel teslastan?
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SqotCo@reddit
Well you weird creepy comment history stalker I hadn't bought a dash cam yet but the police would need to know my car has an always on dash cam, which is highly unlikely for an aftermarket product but made by Amazon.
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XMAN2YMAN@reddit
This is actually a great feature that I have personally utilized to help a Tesla owner find their lost family ring with. The Tesla owner dropped her ring when getting out of her car. Did not notice but this sentry mode saw the person that picked it up. We were able to get the tag and find the person who picked up the ring. Within 24hrs the Tesla owner was able to get her family heirloom back, which also cost a couple grand according to them.
BadRegEx@reddit
I hope Tesla introduces drive encryption on the USB drive.
lowstrife@reddit
Seize the vehicle and tow it to a secure location to access... the USB drive?
Did they try idk asking owners, or maybe just doing it in the parking lot. It only takes a few minutes. What an overkill process.
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