What happens to bitcoin after internet gets shut down
Posted by CertainlyBright@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 310 comments
As the title says, maybe we don't get a full blown emp wiping everything out. BUT what about governments shutting down our or other countries internet in full scale global war? Bitcoin is useless innit?
Horton2411@reddit
Alot of things are useless in this scenario, likely including cash and any money you had in stocks, or bank accounts. If the internet exists somewhere your bitcoin survives. Likely not true about your savings. The overall functionality of our entire country is the bigger concern in this scenario, it would be slowed to nothing.
BigALep5@reddit
But I have pictures of my stock portfolio. That should be enough evidence when we get back online to recoup my monies right!!
fredrickdgl@reddit
Lol; you’d have a far better chance of getting bitcoin recovered than that traditional finance crap
Chance_Answer7984@reddit
Not true at all. Major financial organizations have hard backups upon backups in both tape and solid state storage. That can be recovered relatively easily and they have a vested interest in making sure it can in the event of significant disaster.
Block chain on the scale of bitcoin is basically a giant pyramid scheme that depends on a ridiculous number of interconnected systems and a country's worth of power to process a significant amount of transactions.
Realistically neither will matter in a proper SHTF situation but one is much easier to put back together in the event of something shutting down the internet on a global scale.
WrenchMonkey47@reddit
Crypto wallets hold the "value" of that particular crypto. As long as you can access your crypto wallet and the Internet, your store of crypto is secure.
This is assuming the rest of the Internet is operational.
itsdariuskincaid@reddit
But it’s worthless tho lol
fredrickdgl@reddit
K think want you want
DancingMaenad@reddit
🤣🤣🤣
fredrickdgl@reddit
Also tell me how much it costs to maintain the existing financial system. How many people need to work in those industries drawing salaries, heating and cooling buildings, cost of complying with regulations, risk of having assets seized at a countries political whim. Lets not even talk money printing, election interference, and inflation. manipulation. But individuals running a little software on old computers that are already on anyway a few thousand places around the world to store the ledger is burdensome?
DancingMaenad@reddit
Nobody is going to accept your fake currency in such a situation so what difference does it even make?
You tell me: What's your bitcoin worth when there is no tangible, spendable currency to trade it for and no one wants your digital currency? You haven't really thought this through much.
fredrickdgl@reddit
How many here have any significant silver on hand. Also it’s easy to trade bitcoin for services and other things. If theres a major issue I’m going somewhere where bits are standard and things are stable. Either that or only bartering in lead
fredrickdgl@reddit
Yeah and how much cash are people actually gonna have on hand. Most money is an allusion on the screen when you check your balance. How many in here actually keep more than 5 figures on hand?
fredrickdgl@reddit
Tell me your part of the problem of the world.
DancingMaenad@reddit
Yeah, all humans are. And you're not exempt from that club, either so I guess we got that in common, huh? 😆 Climb down off your high horse. You're not as smart as you fancy yourself, nor are you somehow magically not part of the problem with this world.
fredrickdgl@reddit
Typically liberal response saying all humans are the problem. You probably want to encourage birth control, reduce world population, eat fake meat burgers etc
capt-bob@reddit
I saw a show, underground world or something, and they showed inside old salt mines where banks keep paper records in case of nuclear war or something, they still have claim to debt when things come back up. I can't imagine people taking Bitcoin for stuff after that without some big power enforcing it as a standard.
fredrickdgl@reddit
It’s the opposite. You have a better chance of still having bitcoin without the force of gov than you do all those old bank records
fredrickdgl@reddit
That’s not what pyramid scheme means. Are you kamala? Basically ukraine is a country near russia and basically russia is a big meanie picking on little young ukraine
rekabis@reddit
Over a long enough time frame, all “investments” get diluted or phased out to $0.
Reminds me of a ST:TNG episode where the Enterprise finds this floating cryo space station with a handful of surviving corpsicles inside. They fix their medical issues (which had pushed them into becoming cryogenically frozen) and revive them. The big Parasite-Class industrialist among them immediately asks about his stock portfolio, and Picard goes all “LMAO no, that shit doesn’t exist anymore. We have a civilization based on collectivism and socialism now, where people focus on self-improvement and serving society, not wealth accumulation. You be as poor as a church mouse, dude.”
Big_Ed214@reddit
Move all your investments to a Ferengi Bank
Whistlebizzie@reddit
That’s exactly why I made copies of my NFT’s and screenshot them multiple times
BGrumpy@reddit
Yea take pictures. While you're at it, take pictures of your feet as well. That way when you're in your 70's, you can show your friends what your feet used to look like. lol
wakanda_banana@reddit
You can frame it on the wall as a distant memory at that point (I have no idea what would actually happen)
EqualitySeven-2521@reddit
If one wishes for the value of any current financial holding to be worth something under potential extreme circumstances, then the goal should be to convert such holdings to something whose value would persist (and very likely increase) under those same circumstances.
n00b_dude007@reddit
Such as gold, but in a true SHTF scenario who cares about gold, paper money, or bitcoin. The valuables would be food, water, shelter, weapons, medication, etc. I imagine we would go back to bartering in an extreme scenario
reddit_tothe_rescue@reddit
Honest question, not trying to start something- why would gold retain its value in a scenario when cash has become useless?
Various-Ducks@reddit
There would have to still be some form of a semi functioning economy somewhere, but because there's a limited supply and it doesn't rust or spoil or break down or disintegrate.
Comfortable_Bar_8617@reddit
There is always an economy no matter where you are and the times. Look at prisons, or destroyed post world War Germany...
Various-Ducks@reddit
That's just the world's economy. You value gold in prison because you know it has value outside prison. Now imagine there is nothing outside prison. Nobody cares about gold.
Also, North America before Columbus
Big_Ed214@reddit
Yes. It’s a good concentrated value holder. It’s ok to swap a few eggs for a few veggies. Even barter a few farm animals for guns/ammo etc. However for a working tractor, house or farm it’s unlikely to be a good equivalent barter items. Here gold is good, as I give you a gold bar for your herd of cattle, a few pigs and chickens. You take that gold to get food, water or feed/seeds. Easy to carry and trade. Not much use for a cup of coffee etc.
Comfortable_Bar_8617@reddit
Silver is for coffee. Lol 😆 🤣
Comfortable_Bar_8617@reddit
Read what I wrote. Gold has always been money and will continue to because of its properties.
mactheprint@reddit
Because it would be a hard medium of exchange, unlike useless paper money.
GoddessAsherahSea@reddit
It wouldn’t. Only things that would have value are those with a real purpose. Lead for one.
chewtality@reddit
Gold has numerous purposes outside of its use as a form of currency or an investment vehicle. One of the ones that immediately comes to mind in a SHTF or post-SHTF scenario is its use in dentistry.
Certain gold salts have medical uses as treatments for rheumatoid arthritis, tuberculosis, and general inflammation and have displayed an efficacy in more recent research as a treatment for HIV, ovarian and lung cancer, and certain amoeba related infections or diseases.
Most of these medications aren't used as often as they previously were due to a higher rate of side effects than other available medications, but in the event of a SHTF or TEOTWAWKI situation, production of basically all of those meds would be more or less impossible due to the complexity their synthesis, the required precursor chemicals, and required advanced manufacturing equipment whereas anyone with a basic understanding of chemistry could prepare the gold salts. I could synthesize a few of them with ease today in my house if I wanted to.
Aside from that, depending on how fucked everything would be in whichever situation, gold is used extensively in electronics and various other electrical applications. I wouldn't expect the production of electronics to be feasible, but various electrical repairs to solar, wind, and hydroelectric systems. Plus plenty of other basic wiring and electrical systems.
After all, if something happened it's not like we would automatically be thrown back into the dark ages and collectively forget everything we've learned over the past couple millennia. Obviously not everyone would know how to do these things, but some will. Almost certainly more people than at any given time in history.
Flux_State@reddit
You can make bullets and fishing weights out of gold
Eredani@reddit
It's hard to find a time in human history when gold did not have value. It is true that fiat paper currency and gold only have value because we collectively believe they do... but that belief is almost universal with gold.
(This was baked into our DNA by our ancient alien overlords...)
The problem with things that have intrinsic value, meaning they are inherently useful, is that they are also consumable. You might trade in cans of tuna and 22 rounds, but they will never be currency.
Flux_State@reddit
Ammunition could definitely serve as currency for a limited time.
Flux_State@reddit
Cultural memory. It's been valuable in most cultures for thousands of years.
However, it's naive to think that if fiat currency collapses, that people can just replace it with gold and/or silver coinage overnight. While retail economies aren't restricted to the modern era, they all had relatively powerful central authorities to issue coins, fight counterfeit, and pull old worn coins out of circulation to be recycled into new coins. The other way of using gold coinage is like half way between Barter and modern Currency. Different gold coins from different places had different relative values and coins that were new, lightly worn, or heavily worn had different relative values. Merchants and traders had special kits to determine that a gold coin was real and what it's actual gold purity was. It's a skill set.
Ghost_of_Chrisanova@reddit
Gold has industrial utility.
Gold is also the hedge against cash; but if we get to say... $20,000 per ounce of gold, it's likely we will all have bigger problems on our hands.
I'd rather have chicken eggs and silver dimes.
EqualitySeven-2521@reddit
It would have limited practical value during a crisis. Certain people with particular skills and knowledge could fashion and otherwise utilize gold capitalizing on its various properties.
For most people gold would probably be of most practical value as a wealth bank durinf a period assuming an eventual return to more ordinary circumstances, at which time gold could be converted back to more traditionally modern forms of currency.
In the intervening period gold could be exchanged in barter with the notion that each successive recipient and holder of gold through such transactions would be banking something for future conversion.
ChildofYHVH@reddit
When things began to settle down you would have one of the only things of “value”. Saying a limited amount of people trying to start over scenario?!?
EqualitySeven-2521@reddit
Something like that. I believe the gold would be even more valuable the closer society were to returning to what we had before SHTF.
AshIsAWolf@reddit
For the same reason money is worth something now, people generally believe it has and will continue to have value.
Dizzy-River505@reddit
Because gold is money and cash is currency so they would and do react differently to almost all scenarios. They actually are pretty much mutually exclusive without a gold standard. Not advocating for a gold standard, but the only use for cash at the end of day, is the ability to pass it off quickly, or fuel for a fire. Gold has properties that transcend monetary value, it is a commodity first, and money second. Money is simply the most marketable commodity, and the most marketable commodity is gold. It is this because it doesn’t rust or decay or change in any way on its own, it’s small, and we need it for electronics, conduction fo electricity, jewelry, phones, kitchen appliances, cars. Even in times before electricity, it is easy to transport, it is small, divisible yet valuable, has a finite supply.
Dollars and cash are useful, but your only use for them is buying stuff and paying taxes, no one really saves them, they buy stocks or bonds, or they lend them to the bank through HYSA’s.
Comfortable_Bar_8617@reddit
In that scenario, gold is the best medium of exchange, currency, money and barter item. Everyone will accept gold, some people will not need ammo, food or medicine. That's why gold developed into real money in the 1st place!! You could trade with any region in the world using gold 2 thousand years ago, and 2 thousand years from now. You guys 1st need to study what money really is, then you can understand. Most goods spoil over time, or an abundance builds up, or not everyone needs that item. But gold can always be used for trade. It's happening now with sanctioned countries like Russia, Iran and Venezuela. Hello 👋
Stewart_Duck@reddit
To be fair, gold has held value through every example of a SHTF scenario throughout history. Its value has outlasted civilizations, ethnic groups, religions, it's held value since before written history and even the evolution of modern man. Sure it doesn't have the medicinal properties of other elements, but something about that shiny yellow metal has always held its grip on humanity. It might not serve much of a purpose while things are going south, but eventually, things start to bounce back. When they do, it's historically been the people/bloodlines with the most gold that bounce back on top.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
That's not actually true. Even historically in local disasters, people can't rely on the greater global value of gold (why is gold cheaper in Venezuela?). When suddenly everyone decides to barter with gold, the market becomes flooded and the value of gold drops; sometimes significantly, below what you paid for it. You can see that in historical trends if you correlate them with disasters.
dgradius@reddit
All I’m hearing here is gold arbitrage opportunity in Venezuela.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
You got it. When SHTF, that's what everyone else will be thinking about your gold "investment".
chewtality@reddit
Of course the value can drop, they didn't say it couldn't. They said it has held value, not that it has held all of its value. "Held value" just means that it is still worth something instead of being a totally useless piece of garbage.
Gold has had some amount of value to humanity since prehistoric times. It is the earliest recorded metal to have been used by humans. Before you or anyone else says anything, no I am not a gold bug, this is just literal fact.
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
I'm not sure what dictionary you use, but generally the meaning of "hold value" means "not losing value". To give an example, a can of beans of a given quantity has had the same food value as it had when beans were first canned. The relative monetary cost and price of a can of beans has fluctuated, but you can still trade it for the same alternative food items as you always have been when you don't factor in currency. Gold like any other other metal fluctuates in value depending on numerous factors. If you buy an ounce of gold today, you know how much that's worth in food value today, but you don't know what the food value of an ounce of gold will be during any other time.
chewtality@reddit
You're thinking of the term in its use in modern (relatively speaking) investing and also in the short term instead of using historical context.
The value of everything can and will fluctuate under different circumstances. Yes, even your beans. Let's say SHTF. In a few years beans would likely become one of if not the most abundant food source because they're easy as fuck to grow and store, will grow across a variety of climates, and growing them provides food exponentially. The bean itself is the seed and each bean plant will produce 0.5-1 lb of beans. Because of this, everyone alive is growing beans.
Then you want to go barter for some other items and you bring along your beans. How well do you think you'll do with those when every single person you try to barter with already has more than enough beans? Not very well. Welcome to the economic principle of supply and demand.
If you're solely talking about the ability to provide sustenance then that's different, but that's also not a fair comparison in the slightest because by that definition then nothing except for food and water would have any value.
If you actually look at gold in a historical context then what he said is accurate. Throughout human history, even all the way back to 4000 BC, gold has been valuable to humanity. It has certainly always been more valuable than beans.
But why would gold have value after societal collapse? Who cares about shiny things when you're focused on survival? Well for starters, apparently a lot of people do based once again on human history. But more importantly, gold has actual uses too. On the topic of survival, a huge one is its use in dentistry. There wouldn't be all these fancy modern options. Gold is by far the most effective and safest option otherwise. Unless you think putting mercury alloys in your mouth is more desirable?
Gold actually also does have medicinal benefits, or rather certain gold salts do. These medications are also simple to prepare, especially compared to their counterparts which would almost certainly cease to exist due to the complexity of their synthesis. I could make most of the gold salt medications today in my living room if I wanted to, that's how easy it is.
While I don't think the production of electronics would be much of a concern, I do think that the repair of various electrical systems such as solar, wind, and hydroelectricity would be pretty important to people who have access/control of them. Gold is incredibly conductive and more importantly is inert and incredibly resistant to corrosion and oxidation. A few other metals are equally as conductive, but those will also oxidise and/or corrode from exposure to air, water, and various other external factors. What do you think the guy with a solar array to maintain will be more likely to barter for? Gold, beans, or some other metal that will oxidise or corrode and require more frequent maintenance?
KaleidoscopeMean6924@reddit
You seem to be talking lots of theory and no practice. In your theory, literally every famine could have been combatted by locals just planting beans. In fact, if it's so easy, we can just cure world hunger if everyone just grew beans, it's that simple.
In actual fact, any time there was a disaster that required lots of people using gold to barter, the value of gold decreased significantly because of the exact argument you used (supply and demand). Gold in Venezuela is cheaper than the global market average because that's what lots of people used to trade with for a while. Sure, gold will always have some value, just like the Venezuelan Bolivar still does. It's just worth a lot less than it used to be worth.
tianavitoli@reddit
well like this might be the one time in thousands of years where someone on Reddit is right, don't cha know
originalityescapesme@reddit
There’s such a thin margin where every current financial tool is worthless but gold remains lol
Food, water,and ammunition would be worth more.
While gold is a necessary component in manufacturing, the lack of infrastructure would make it no more useful as a symbolic tool for value than just another piece of paper with the right scribbling on it.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
If I ever became a prepper I would stockpile bricks of tea and coffee to trade
DPPThrow45@reddit
Add salt and sugar and you'll have something.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
I’m next to the coast so i figured i could get the salt from the ocean. The sugar is a really good idea though so thanks for that 🙂
LegitimateGift1792@reddit
Not sure where you are on the planet, but look for things that are not normal for your area. Those will be hard to get once world wide transportation shutdown.
Here in the midwest of the USA, we cannot grow coffee, cocoa, bananas, etc. All those are equatorial and have to be shipped in constantly.
Available_Sir5168@reddit
That’s why I chose coffee and tea, I’m in Australia and they aren’t grown here, at least at scale. And coffee and tea can keep for years which is also why I picked them . They are also compact, which again helps storage
GoddessAsherahSea@reddit
Alcohol… folx won’t suddenly become sober. It will be traceable for real value.
JKnott1@reddit
I've always thought silver would be better. Gold is too valuable for paying for small things, which is what most transactions would be.
migami@reddit
Pretty much, imo if you're prepping gold you're prepping for events that eventually end or are localized enough that you could leave and go somewhere that isn't fucked. Gold doesn't have much use for bartering if nobody thinks they'll live to see a society where they can spend it again. At most I would expect a pound or two in small segments might be worth it if you plan to hoof it somewhere else and can deal with the weight/distribute it over a group, but having a retirement fund worth of gold is just nuts to me... Unless that IS your retirement fund whether or not SHTF
tianavitoli@reddit
where do you find out if it's a "true" shtf scenario, do they announce this sort of thing on the news, or does a best bro sus it out? how does this work, a parade?
Various-Ducks@reddit
In the before times that gold was worth its weight in squirrels
deltronethirty@reddit
There is a possible scenario where blockchain currency has value after fed collapse and hyper dollar inflation.
It's a part of the allure and value of bitcoin as a hedge.
Flux_State@reddit
Block chain currency is a scam. You can make alot of money on a scam and alot of people have, but like musical chairs you can really get screwed.
deltronethirty@reddit
Of course, it's a scam. I got a couple of coins so I could buy drugs and scalp show tickets. Before "crypto" I genuinely believed in the movement for decentralized currency. I lost all faith and gained $100k. Sold too soon. No regrets.
rekabis@reddit
If the government survives in any going concern, likely false. Cash is essentially a promissory note backed by the government. You would probably see some systemic issues such as hyperinflation, but the government would still be issuing new bills.
Definitely true, with or without a government. They largely don’t do a thing to prop up stocks and bonds for the Average Joe Q. Taxpayer. Government bonds are an entirely different kettle of fish, however; they would continue to support those.
In a country where deposits are protected, the government would step in and protect your deposits in the case of a banking collapse. However this would likely be an extremely limited and slow-moving protection, as everyone would be hit at the same or similar time. People would be given access to only small chunks of their deposited savings at a time, not only to avoid a run on the banking system but also to avoid hyperinflation and other issues.
Calgaris_Rex@reddit
Even gold and silver will become useless if it really hits the fan...
uniform_foxtrot@reddit
Cold, hard cash is the only payment method which will not be affected in such a scenario.
KeepingItSFW@reddit
You can’t eat currency, you can’t use it to fight off other people or animals. You can’t treat a wound with it or cure a UTI. You can’t drink it to rehydrate or purifier water, or use it as shelter. You could get a fire going with it at best.
I imagine bartering will be far more important.
uniform_foxtrot@reddit
I've just strained my eye muscles from rolling my eyes too hard while reading your reply.
KeepingItSFW@reddit
if they water at all, you could dry your eyes with cold hard cash
atheistunicycle@reddit
Each share you own in a stock has a unique ID# which is traceable. Your shares are safe, you can actually request a paper share if you'd like. Not sure about ETFs but I ASSUME this is the same.
Horton2411@reddit
If there isn't a server to reflect that number it's useless. The draw of bitcoin is it can be confirmed essentially anywhere. If say Charles Schwab has 10 redundant drive in the states and nowhere else(for example, who knows how redundantly saved your info really is) if those drives are down or lost, it's not recoverable.
turtlechef@reddit
If we’re at the point where Charles Schwab doesn’t have a single data center running then the value of your stock of bitcoin is probably the least of your worries
panda3096@reddit
Oh yeah you can probably get your stock but at that point it probably won't be worth the paper it's written on
HairyChest69@reddit
If the block chain has somewhere to survive then it can always be there for you. The problem is surviving mad max. I keep saying I'll do it, but haven't. Buying gold and silver I can have on me. Maybe buried or in a safe. I could make an elaborate treasure map for someone to find in case I get eaten.
Comfortable_Bar_8617@reddit
Bitcoin is a cult and a novelty without intrinsic value. You can't hold it or hide it. You can bury gold for 100 years and trust it will retain its value without the need for electricity or the internet. 😆 Bitcoin is crap invented by the NSA. Look it up.
Historical_Equal_887@reddit
gold n silver
Different_Advice_552@reddit
if shit hits the fan that badly bitcoin is the last thing you should be worrying about lol
bp7x42q@reddit
This doesn't make sense. The moment shit hits the fan, the first thing governments do is kill the internet to stop the flow of communication
Dpgillam08@reddit
Lol
https://www.wired.com/story/microsoft-windows-outage-crowdstrike-global-it-probems/#:\~:text=The%20widespread%20Windows%20outages%20have%20been%20linked%20to,update%20that%20CrowdStrike%20pushed%20out%20to%20its%20customers.
Crowdstrike's security update last month? We dont need wars or other shit to kill the internet; basic "oops" can do it just as easily. And what happens to your digital stuff when your computer is just a paperweight?
holmuhbeer@reddit
what if that was your monetary plan?
Different_Advice_552@reddit
i'd still be more concerned about getting nuked
Dry_Technology_1190@reddit
Agreed.
No-Win-1137@reddit
So your answer is "don't think about it"?
Different_Advice_552@reddit
My answer is ww3 is happening there is more pressing shit to worry about
zachthomas666@reddit
Right like if internet goes out that much the American banking system goes out with it, so kiss your normal bank account bye too. Anything that’s not cash will be gone or inaccessible.
TheAspiringFarmer@reddit
Or relying on…
Mean_Ad_7512@reddit
it's gone, so spend it now on supplies.
holmuhbeer@reddit
Useless? Like HAS ZERO UTILITY?
That's why it was invented!
Infinite_Goose8171@reddit
Ive invested my money in canned goods and arrows
Ashamed-Ad359@reddit
Bruh if the internet goes out we will be back in the dark ages within months. Countries will quite literally crumble.
mijoelgato@reddit
You don’t have a back-up internet??! Dude, you are EFFED.
No-Win-1137@reddit
It goes to zero. Also what happens to btc when a bitcoin hodler dies? It might be lost forever. Eventually there will be no bitcoin left.
____80085____@reddit
I had a decent amount of bitcoin and I decided to sell it all and build a carriage house on my property. I rent it out to a young couple. He is a police officer in training and she is an ER nurse. Way better investment for my future than Bitcoin lol
slower-is-faster@reddit
I hate to say anything positive about bitcoin, but the benefit of its decentralisation makes it significantly more robust than you fiat bank when it comes to surviving internet outages. Now whether or not people will attribute value to it is a different matter.
ventipico@reddit
You can actually conduct offline bitcoin transactions using pen and paper, and submit them at some point in the future. The ledger and balances are what need to be hosted on a computer.
Regardless of what you think of bitcoin, the math and how the decentralization works is all really cool.
thumos_et_logos@reddit
Poof
hello_three23@reddit
When I can’t get online to check the status of bitcoin I don’t have, I’ll probably make the classic joke about how I hope my gold didn’t vaporize magically and then see it and go about my day.
Awhispersecho1@reddit
Doesn't really matter because you won't be able to get 9nkibe and find out. However, bitcoin needs a working network to go up or down so I would think if you the internet comes back up, it would be right where it was when it shut down.
Apprehensive_Buy687@reddit
A cold wallet might be useful if you plan to escape to Switzerland, since its high probability they'll be neutral.
murquiza@reddit
Once upon a time cash had value because it was made out of precious metals. Later it was made out of paper but backed by precious metals. Then it was just backed by a solid promise by a sovereign country. Bitcoin has value only because the holders believe of has value. It’s digital monopoly money.
Keepitcruel@reddit
I’m not a Bitcoin maximalist. Eventually all cryptographic encryption methods will be broken, but this is fun to think about.
To kill bitcoin (in its current form), you would need to destroy every copy of the blockchain that exists at the same time. Including those located within faradays and in orbit. I don’t know much about EMP generation outside of nuking the atmosphere.
I think the most important point tho- Bitcoin is a protocol the same way that the internet or email is a protocol; A series of steps that can be taken in order to make something useful happen. Technically, a group of humans with paper and ham radios can perform the actions of a computer protocol. It would take ages, but it is possible. The value of any protocol is in the knowledge of the protocol itself. The value of bitcoin specifically is in its ability to securely transfer signed transactions over a network. Transactions can include messages that only the sender and receiver can understand.
If enough nodes are added to any blockchain network, smaller/mobile nodes do not need to be constantly connected in order to sync up again without any data loss. If major networks go down, I would rather spin up my own fork of bitcoin to communicate than a heavy and spotty SMTP server. That would have immediate value to me.
I assume that all preppers have different ideas of what would play out in a situation like the one you described. This crap will only work if all chips aren’t fried, so it’s a narrow thought experiment if taken too far or literally. It’s a tool that can be changed to solve problems. That type of thinking is important to me. When power went out by my campus during a winter storm about 5 years ago, students were buying beer and cell phone chargers at the corner store with bitcoin lightning over Bluetooth. Others in the store were saying, ‘crypto isn’t real money’, but there was no cash in the register and the card readers didn’t have power. The scoffers couldn’t get beer and batteries. I think about that a lot.
stu54@reddit
Wouldn't bitcoin become forked to hell if transactions were performed during a major internet outage?
Keepitcruel@reddit
We just did offline and satellite transactions until the power came back on. It all depends on how long the internet is out and how widespread the outage is. I wouldn’t recommend forking and creating something fresh unless it was a very longterm and widespread outage. Creating your own fork is not reliable or secure if there is no one to share it with.
Beneficial_Bear296@reddit
gold is not only valuable because people like to where it and it does not ever go bad but it's used in almost all tech soo Will always have some value. Satan's or belezibub coin will collapse His initial is right on the coin, and he will receive all worlds money eventually, then force you to Satan's will. Be cautious don't be deceived why u think bit coin creator is such a mystery 🤔
FootSureDruid@reddit
I haven’t seen an answer very specifically to your question so I’ll give it a shot. In the event that literally all internet in the world goes down, your bitcoin would remain, untouched. Bitcoin operates on a network of computers. 100s of thousands that say “yup Reddit user CertainlyBright has 3 bitcoin” and those 100s of thousands of computers all agree. If we lose internet, you won’t be able to transact, but the bitcoin will still exist.
The more likely scenario of one country or so going down, you’ll actually still be able to transact and your bitcoin will survive. It’s all based on a majority of computers agreeing that you have a legitimate transaction and number of bitcoin.
Now this differs from actual banks. This is WAY oversimplified but say a bank has a single server farm saying Reddit user CertainlyBright has $100,000 in their account and that bank, which only exists in the US gets cut off from the internet…you’re dead in the water. No transactions can happen and it’s not even confirmed you have that money.
So the resiliency of crypto is that it’s not centralized and it’s democratized where in a real bank that’s not the case, only that bank knows how much money you have and controls how it’s transacted.
I’m only talking about mechanics of the systems, not their perceived value since this seemed more like “how does it work in a shtf moment” question
That_Guest9943@reddit
If the internet went down worldwide the system seizes up and if that event extended long enough Bitcoin would be worthless.
If internet outage was isolated to a geography there isn’t a major impact unless a huge percentage of miners go offline but that would be temporary. Ukraine can be used as an example.
From a disaster prepping perspective I think it’s important for people to understand that Bitcoin is not going to be a magic pill of value maintenance or growth. If a situation like that happened then who knows what happens to energy prices depending on the scenario.
If we’re talking about a crazy deflationary event and economic collapse Bitcoin won’t go to the moon and it probably goes down because there would be an oversupply of cheap energy.
The best environment for Bitcoin to perform is one where the industrialized world is continuing to demand energy levels that it can’t keep up with while at the same time Bitcoin becomes more heavily adopted as a mainstream transactional/investment asset.
Yes, Bitcoin is decentralized but in a world with impaired communications IT infrastructure none of that matters. The best assets would be for old school trading like gold/silver, cigarettes, drugs, weapons, food, tools, machinery, gasoline, solar power stations, and attractive women.
FootSureDruid@reddit
Yup agreed, but I wasn’t commenting on worth, strictly on how it works. I didn’t take “useless” from the question as worthless, I took it as functional. As in can it be used.
That_Guest9943@reddit
I think the peppers only care if Bitcoin is a good asset in a survival situation where the internet and other IT infrastructure becomes significantly impaired. There are lots of Bitcoin maximalists out there that go off topic and discuss the amazing tech of Bitcoin. That’s all great but normal people don’t care about or want to take time to fully understand Bitcoin (it’s a commitment). Especially if all that technical info doesn’t solve the questions being posed. 95% of people got life to live. This sub, and most people, want to know how Bitcoin will perform in different scenarios and there 100% are factors that can be positive or negative to Bitcoin.
NoBit5304@reddit
Hopefully into the ether where it belongs
ultra_nick@reddit
Bitcoin works without internet. It'd work with offline phone hot spots.
The core of Bitcoin is just a program that shouts "I gave Bill $5" to everyone else.
That_Guest9943@reddit
If the internet becomes significantly segmented and IT infrastructure is all messed up then it’s safe to say access through cell phone networks will be a disaster as well. Any catastrophic event to the World Wide Web would erase significant value to Bitcoin. There’s just no way around it. Doesn’t matter what kind of technology is in place to allow the system to work temporarily or eventually recover.
Own-Lengthiness-3549@reddit
The ultimate cold wallet
ttkciar@reddit
It's already useless, except inasmuch that people believe it has value.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
That's pretty much how all currency works. 90% of the US currency is digital and doesn't even exist outside of the internet.
Obsidian_Purity@reddit
This is the issue with currency.
During the August 2003 blackout, after I had to go pick up my grand mother, my friends wanted to hang out.
I asked what were we going to do, and they said "... I don't know".
The bar we always hung out at closed shop. Couldn't even open the tills to accept our cash.
Gas was low in all our cars, so we couldn't go driving. Nor should we with no lights.
No diner to grab a bite.
And that was just a seven out black out. Most commerce as I knew it stopped.
Money won't mean a thing when people just stop valuing it. Who cares what a bunch of 1's and 0's says when I have hunger in my stomach? But I will start talking to you if you have grapes for any of my trading supplies, like my lettuce or cooking oil.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
And that's where gold and silver come back into play.
It's a hell of a lot easier to carry a few ounces of those vs a few hundred pounds of grains, or vegetables.
At first people will straight barter goods for goods. But then markets will come about quickly. People will meet up at the same location to trade goods and services.
And with that, "bankers" will come back. Then we're back in the same boat, but maybe now instead of gold backed currency we have water backed, or we have aluminum backed, or whatever.
Flux_State@reddit
Using gold and silver are skill sets almost no one posessds
ImportantBad4948@reddit
I’ve bought groceries with cash during a power outage. Plenty of folks do it frequently after storms, etc all.
Obsidian_Purity@reddit
I was in New York at the time, if that factors in.
God. That really factors in. I was supposed to go to the city via metro north (our train line in Westchester) that night. I don't even know how I would have gotten back.
I never keep money on me and I couldn't have withdrawn anything.
ImportantBad4948@reddit
Hmm, Maybe it’s a NYC thing as I’ve heard of folks in LA keeping earthquake money.
Yeah having cash on hand is part of it for sure.
Drag0nV3n0m231@reddit
Except you can touch money.
Gitanes@reddit
Read his comment again please.
Drag0nV3n0m231@reddit
Oh I read it, it’s just not really true lmfao
DannyWarlegs@reddit
Only 8% of US currency is physical. If we all went to the bank tomorrow and tried to empty our accounts they wouldn't have enough physical cash to pay everyone.
Top 2 results when you Google "how much of US currency is digital?" Are
About 90% of the world's money is digital, stored on computer servers. This is due to a number of factors, including:
Cost: Digital money is cheaper to handle than cash.
Connectivity: The growth of mobile and fixed line networks has allowed people and systems to connect digitally.
Mobility: Consumers are looking for more convenient ways to pay.
And 2nd is In fact, 92% of the world's money is digital, only 8% of it in the modern world is physical(How Currency Works). Only 10.2% of the United States' money exists as cash (How Much Money Is There in the United States?). The rest is digital or exists in the form of assets that are not physical currency.
ttkciar@reddit
Yep, no argument here.
p1570lpunz@reddit
That begs the question, why does gold have any inherent value? It's scientific properties are nothing compared to modern alternatives.
It just looks pretty and people think it's worth soemthing.
LuigiBamba@reddit
Because there is limited supply, we can't make any and it is an (relatively) easy method of exchanging objects of value.
also, it's scientific properties are absolutely crucial today still. Very conductive, malleable and corrosion-proof metals are not easy to come by. Still, i think I saw a graph showing that >50% of gold mines is still used as safe storage of value while the rest is for tech and jewelry purposes.
hoggineer@reddit
Why do manufacturers still plate electronic terminals with gold if there are better modern alternatives?
kittydogbearbunny@reddit
Are you talking about paper money, or 1s and 0s money?
ttkciar@reddit
The question was about bitcoins (a digital cryptocurrency) but the same largely applies to paper money.
Though, paper money at least you could use to wipe your ass. Can't do that with ones and zeros.
kittydogbearbunny@reddit
I know it was, just poking a little fun. Your statement could be applied to almost any currency.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
You need bigger 1s and 0s.
AngryAlabamian@reddit
Or to a lesser extent, even gold or silver. They both have industrial/electrinic applications these days but for most of human history they really didn’t. The only major difference is that the supply is naturally constrained
ttkciar@reddit
Ohhh you've done it now! The deontological types are going to descend on you like a pack of wolves ;-)
Various-Ducks@reddit
You can store data in its blockchain. Anything you want. Throw it in there. That information will be recorded and saved to a million computers around the world. So you're not likely to lose whatever information you put in there. And it can't be censored, can't be altered, it's all public record. We could use that for something. There's some potential for usefulness there.
JohnnyBoy11@reddit
Worse than useless bc it's polluting the enviro "mining" some useless code
crustyrope69@reddit
It’s on track to be carbon negative and monetizes stranded, wasted energy😂 cmon man.
Drag0nV3n0m231@reddit
Sure 💀💀💀
pudding7@reddit
LOL
RobertNevill@reddit
This is the answer
pudding7@reddit
And not many people believe that.
P4intsplatter@reddit
This is the crux of everything a prepper should remember:
Bitcoin, just like ammo, medicine, anti-radiation tabs, even food... changes utility based on how we collapse, and how long you prep for.
That being said, as someone who actually still actively invests in other "cryptocurrency" (Eth. Solana), all crypto is now tied directly to the stock markets and will crash with them. I use them as a non-inflationary asset that I can take pulls from when volatility is high. It's a personal finance prep.
I can say however, without a doubt, that a flashdrive with 80 bazillion Bitcoin "locked safe inside with recovery phrases" and stored in a"hold wallet" will not be worth dick if people around you are starving. I'm not using it for that.
CXavier4545@reddit
exactly I’m using it for current real world profit not end of the world dollar collapse notions
P4intsplatter@reddit
Well done. Always remember the prepper adage, though, "Don't prep for one thing, prep a little for all things."
My crypto exposure is less than 5% of total assets, I never recommend more than 20%, even in high-risk portfolios. Too volatile, not a long-term prep unless you're turning it over by selling every few years. It's not a "set and forget." Money is better spent in the index market long term.
I am not a financial advisor
joopityjoop@reddit
That's how stocks and fiat currency work as well. Nobody is buying stocks they do not believe in.
_Losing_Generation_@reddit
Bitcoin is a fake currency anyway. There is no physical bitcoin, so if the internet goes down, so does bitcoin. Bitcoin is meaningless, the only value it has is what people hype. If you are concerned about currency, then stack physical gold or silver and some cash
mxldevs@reddit
Depends whether you have offline storage or not.
Your money still works even if you can't transfer it over the internet.
That_Guest9943@reddit
Bitcoin’s value is based on a combination of energy prices, use cases (which requires a network), and cult followers. If any of those are eliminated there is no value.
Suuperdad@reddit
Energy secures it, but it's value comes from the fact that it's permissionless, impossible to counterfeit or control by any single party, and there's never going to be more of it.
People can hate on it all they want, but those things have more value to me than fiat offers.
pants_mcgee@reddit
The value comes from the fact it can be exchanged for fiat currency. It’s a speculative asset with less tangible value than beanie babies.
If the powers that be ever decided crypto needed to go, it would be trivial to ban the exchanges.
fredrickdgl@reddit
Not true. Maybe a few years ago that would have been possible but no longer. Hence the lefts need to shift politcal stance on it. They missed the chance to squash it lol. It’s less speculative and more tangible then the usd now. I think it ranks as the 5th largest asset class or something now
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
Actually due to centralized nodes and less and less people running them it's pretty easy for a country to take control of ledger if they want to
fredrickdgl@reddit
No it wouldnt be
TonyBlairsDildo@reddit
The actual compute behind Bitcoin (and other crypto) is handled by fewer and fewer players. Almost all Bitcoins are kept in exchanges, separated from their actual owners (like gold deposits with bearer certificates).
Possessing gold for anything other than costume jewelry was banned in the USA, and they actually pulled it off. I'm sure plenty of people kept a few gold bars buried and exchanged for cash here-and-there but the same cannot happen for crypto.
If crypto is banned, exchanges will fold overnight and then there's no way to actually trade them for hard currency, which is what people actually want.
fredrickdgl@reddit
Yes the centralized pools are an issue and storing on exchanges is dumb. Bet many in here have bearer certificates too which is also dumb adjacent. It’s easy to exchange p2p as it should be
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
He meant cheap energy gives it value. If energy becomes too expensive it's worthless, seeing as it takes almost a thousand kWh to do a single transaction, which is as much energy as a typical American family uses in month.
Once it starts costing $20000 in energy to do a transaction nobody is going to use bitcoin.
Suuperdad@reddit
It takes 1000 kWh to do a transaction when energy levels are cheap. If energy becomes expensive and its no longer profitable at those levels, miners drop out and the mining solution changes, and it then requires less energy.
I get it that many people don't understand bitcoin, but at the same time find it funny when they use their misunderstanding like it's some gotcha, when it just doesn't even work like that.
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
No. It takes the amount it takes, that number is set, and increasing. As more and transactions are done and added to the ledger each new transaction takes longer and uses more energy.
Suuperdad@reddit
r/confidentlyincorrect
babyCuckquean@reddit
That 2% includes all data centres, cryptocurrency, and AI. To suggest its just crypto is very misleading. AI is fast outpacing any tech weve previously had, smashing through power and water like crazy.
Googles energy consumption is up 48% on 2019 levels, and they (and the others are too) are pointing the finger at AI.
This is basically why, despite the market for green electricity growing fantastically, our carbon emissions have not abated in fact afaik we're emitting more now than ever before.
To save the planet, we have to actually stop using power all the time. We should have 2 hour blackouts each day or something. There should be big prizes offered to scientists and the public for energy use reduction strategies/technology, rather than the endless quest to make new tech that guzzles more power
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
Yeah ai uses am insane amount of power as well, even more than crypto
Bucketalinko@reddit
I’m not sure about how much global energy use age is mining, but a lot of it is off grid natural gas flares, hydro and excess solar in locations that can’t be used for anything else, or where the grids have a surplus. There’s no issue with those kinds of setups. And I think most mining farms in Texas have agreements with the grid that if the grid is under heavy load they have to shut their miners off. This is good for locals because it means power generators are generating a ton of power to meet miners and locals needs, which means they’ve upgraded infrastructure to support both at no extra cost to the locals but locals get first priorities. So there are some pros to it
Suuperdad@reddit
Also, if energy becomes scarse and miners drop out, the difficulty adjusts and it becomes easier to mine. So many people don't understand how mining works and use their misunderstanding as a gotcha, and it's hilarious.
Duke_Indigo@reddit
“A fool and his money are soon parted.”
Suuperdad@reddit
Soon as in... like longer than 12 years I guess?
Bucketalinko@reddit
I’m a Bitcoin miner and the issue I have is it’s become so industrialised, that governments could easily coordinate a 51% network if they wanted and control the network. You have all these big warehouses full of ASICS and the gov could seize them. And sure, the US is leading the hashrate with 37% (last time I checked) they would have to coordinate with other western nations to pull off the rest to control the network.
Then even if that does not happen, all of the ASIC manufacturers are in China, they could produce as many as they like to take over the network if they really wanted to.
Back when China temporarily banned mining, they had 75% of the network hashrate (I think) They could have killed Bitcoin if they seized all hardware and used it.
So while I like Bitcoin and while the world is still functioning it’s fine, but if you think everything is going to become dystopian then it will be controlled. Whether it’s the network is exchanges, it’s possible to be controlled
Eredani@reddit
This is all true. But also, if the US or China wanted to simply disrupt the block chain, they could. A 72-hour DDoS attack would completely undermine the network.
TylerBlozak@reddit
If you needed to buy food and the store only accepted legal tender, would you still value Bitcoin over regular money even if it meant starving?
Fiat is way more liquid and accessible, so it will be ahead in that sense for years unless some sweeping policy changes take place. Maybe fundamentally Bitcoin has a case in certain respects, especially as a ledger, but it’s just too much of a pariah at this stage for truly widespread adoption.
hzpointon@reddit
It'll be cheaper to mine though
fredrickdgl@reddit
Use case=a perfect scarce resource the gov can’t manipulate or steal from you. You can have it available anywhere if you can just memorize a few words
altiuscitiusfortius@reddit
Available anywhere as long as you have access to the internet and a thousand kWh of energy to waste on a single transaction, rather than using it to power equipment or heat a house etc.
Nobody is trading btc for anything once shtf
fredrickdgl@reddit
K
dericecourcy@reddit
and if not all but some of those miners are eliminated then the cost of mining a bitcoin (and likely the price of bitcoin) goes down
BallsOutKrunked@reddit
Modern day tulip bubble. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulip_mania
We'll be laughing about this shit in the future. Well, some of us will be.
M1ST3R_W1Z4RD@reddit
Yes, those of us who bought it
fredrickdgl@reddit
Right on, we’ll be laughing at tulip bubble man in reality. Shit is going to be crazy soon
Sporesword@reddit
It's primarily based on the cost to generate, that's why it's price movement is so predictable over long timespans.
fredrickdgl@reddit
Not true. 95% has been created. Electric cost to generate depends on how many tokens are left and how many others are mining. What really sets the price is scarcity driven by adoption…and it is rapidly being adopted
That_Guest9943@reddit
OP was throwing out a hypothetical event, no web, and the impact on Bitcoin. You are right about cost to generate being the most highly correlated factor to establish price but that’s because the other two factors I mentioned are pretty much rock solid.
ttkk1248@reddit
Best explanation of cryptocurrency so far
jaejaeok@reddit
It’s not the cult following that gives it value, it’s the ledger. If the ledger is falsified (which it can’t be), that’s a failure point - not the users.
That_Guest9943@reddit
There are plenty of other blockchains that are digital ledgers which function exactly as they were intended to but carry no value.
CacheValue@reddit
You guys act like computers were invented before credit cards.
We would just revert to the physical ker-chunk readers for credit cards and stocks would be pulled from the DTCC and physically resettled then the NYSE would open with traders physically present at the exchange placing orders pre 1980s style.
Buy! Buy! Sell! Sell! Sell!
All within 48 hours probably.
OrdinaryDude326@reddit
They pulled all the old telephone systems out like 2 decades ago. There is no telephone service anymore without the internet. There is no going back, without totally rebuilding the old analog system, it doesn't exist anymore. So, how are you going to verify the credit card is good? I can make fake credit cards with properly formatted numbers all day and night, anyone can, they tell you how all of it works on hacker websites, that's why you need a way to communicate to verify.
FatherOfGreyhounds@reddit
They were. Credit cards started up in the 1950s. Computers came before that - the idea was first proposed in the 1600s, but actual working analog computers were around in the 1800s and digital computers in the 1930s.
CacheValue@reddit
Yeah okay and the Greek calculator knew about Saturn that's not my point;
My point is that you don't need a credit card reader to read a credit card.
You can use a slider to create a carbon copy and then send the CC to their financial institution for billing.
You can use a credit card without electricity.
girlxlrigx@reddit
If you keep crypto in a physical wallet you will be better off than if you keep it on a digital exchange. Cash is really king though, at least until everyone ditches the dollar as the standard and they try to phase out fiat currency completely in favor of CBDCs, so that everything you do can be controlled. As someone else said, precious metals are probably the safest bet overall.
Chouchii@reddit
This is the biggest reason btc is no longer a good investment. Buy silver, bullets, supplies. That's it.
This-Park-149@reddit
Transaction by radio waves is possible. But there’s caveats.
DancingMaenad@reddit
Lol. Bitcoin. What about the real money in your bank account? You know, the stuff you actually buy things like food and electricity with. You're not worried about that? Seems a more viable worry.
BatemansChainsaw@reddit
The Internet's not getting shut down
Zealousideal-Mail-57@reddit
They have bitcoin servers running in Greenland and in bunkers, short of putting them in another planetary system it’s the most secure electrical asset there is
stu54@reddit
So, if you can't connect to those servers you just have to wait until you can?
kiwiprepper@reddit
Always has been, always will be. Lego has more value than bitcoin.
FawnSwanSkin@reddit
Well in its defense, legos is pretty valuable. Should compare it to something less valuable, like gold or silver.
kiwiprepper@reddit
How about "Lego has more inherent vale than bitcoin in shtf."
kalitarios@reddit
Plus, you can play with Lego offline, if you’re bored
Runningcolt@reddit
Not if it's bricked!
Randomized007@reddit
lol that's nonsense. I can buy 800 lego bricks for $30, one bitcoin is worth $60k
kiwiprepper@reddit
Speculative value by dipshits aside.
crustyrope69@reddit
Excuse you. Rich as shit dipshits. Thank you.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
He's confusing bitcoin with gold, and prices with appreciation of value.
Dollar for dollar, lego sets go up in value each year more than gold basically. Especially on limited edition and retired sets.
If you buy a 100 dollar set, odds are in 2 or 3 years if will double in value. I know a few of my sets have already.
Eredani@reddit
Would you rather have one ton of Lego bricks or one bitcoin? :-)
Hint: They cost about the same but one is much lighter and easier to sell.
ttkciar@reddit
In a SHTF situation, a ton of acrylonitrile butadiene styrene (especially in handy interlocking block form) would have infinitely more practical utility than one bitcoin.
Eredani@reddit
The question was for the guy who said bitcoin was always useless and will always be useless. And I meant right now (no SHTF), which one would you rather have.
ComprehensiveBoss815@reddit
I'd prefer to have beer. Which is why I bought 1 beer with a bitcoin.
ttkciar@reddit
Contemplating the question has me this || close to buying a few tons of lego bricks, but my wife would totally murder me in my sleep.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
No, you're confused. What you're thinking of is lego being a safer investment over gold.
Every year the value of lego appreciates more than the value of gold, especially on retired and limited addition sets.
DonBoy30@reddit
Bitcoin is only valuable because it’s traded in US dollars, regardless of what anyone tells you over the internet. It’s also 100% traded using digital dollars for most investors. So consider how useful your debit card will be without the internet, now add a layer of a made up play money that has 0 value other than representing dollars.
Aayy69@reddit
It will climb higher than ever!
license_to_kill_007@reddit
By all means... Please explain to me how the whole Internet gets shutdown.
silasmoeckel@reddit
Shutdown it stops working the worse is if the internet gets segmented. You will end up with diverging blockchains that can't easily be reintegrated.
Funny-Education2496@reddit
Two thoughts...First, I never understand why people who have money in the form of the U.S. dollar--the reserve currency of the world and comparatively stable--convert it into crypto, whose value fluctuates wildly from day to day and week to week. If you've got U.S. currency, put it in the bank, where it is backed up by the FDIC, among other things, or in safe, long-term investments like government bonds.
Secondly, converting too much of your money to a digital form (I realize this can be true with U.S. currency in the bank, too) might not be smart, if you're worried about an EMP, but let's even say you have all your money in cash, stored in a vault at home. In the event of the type of SHTF scenario you're alluding too, there is no guarantee other people would attribute value to these pieces of paper we call currency. If the monetary system and all else has collapsed, such bills are, indeed, just pieces of paper.
While we're on the subject, I similarly don't understand the people who buy silver and gold. They, too, are assuming that in a post-SHTF world, other people will trade you valuable things for these shiny pieces of metal. Who says they would?
frozen_pipe77@reddit
Like bitcoin, the internet is decentralized. They would have to effectively kill power too the planet, and even that might not be enough with all the alternate energy sources
Old-Panda8479@reddit
Ammo, coffee and booze would be the new coins of the realm.
Easy_Grapefruit5936@reddit
Unlikely for it to entirely shut down, because it’s not dependent on any one internet
Glad-Tie3251@reddit
There is no such thing as "internet shutdown". Look up some videos on YouTube about that.
Your government could censor internet, yes but there easy ways around that.
AlphaDisconnect@reddit
You could technically do it on paper ledgers...
But dor you want to do math all day.
Tquilha@reddit
It vanishes into nothing.
That is the biggest problem with any "cryptocurencies" IMHO: they don't exist outside a computer system or network.
If the Internet goes down for whatever reason, the programs an the networks needed to make bitcoins and the like function also go away.
Maybe, some people will be able to keep their own "wallets" safe inside their own computers but even those will only have any kind of value after the Internet comes back on.
normaninvader2@reddit
Bitcoin is like digital gold. If you are starving you still can't eat it.
WSBpeon69420@reddit
Sure is useless! And it’s very easy for a government to do that Too
Ratfor@reddit
If the internet gets shut down Debit doesn't work, and nobody is still set up to process cards offline.
Bitcoin is the Least of your problems.
shadowlid@reddit
Well unless the entire internet all over the world gets wipe out BTC keeps on going.
If the entire internet gets wiped out you wont give a shit if BTC isn't worth anything.
As long as your BTC is on a hardware wallet, and you have the keys in a safe place you can always access them later on if you get internet back or if you go to another country that has internet.
I do stack BTC, more for if the USD goes to shit which I think is coming sooner than later. Also hedge funds are buying hundreds of millions of dollars each week of BTC. So I believe its a sounds Prep.
I prep the 3 precious metals Lead/Gold/Silver and then BTC.
gontis@reddit
The same thing that would have happened to Beanie Babies if the TV had been shut down.
IGetNakedAtParties@reddit
I'll tell you through the medium of song
Remy on YouTube
Pristine-Dirt729@reddit
Bitcoin is shit as a currency anyway. It's at best a speculation.
jaejaeok@reddit
Wait until you hear about the derivatives in your 401(k).
Pristine-Dirt729@reddit
That has absolutely nothing to do with why it will never be good as a currency. I'd sooner sell internal organs than use bitcoin to buy anything.
jimmywilsonsdance@reddit
This is why I cackle every time a crypto bro decides bitcoin as a “hard asset”.
boromeer3@reddit
The same thing that happens with cash and gold. Things with practical value like canned food and bullets will always hold their value.
Average-door-997@reddit
Would that mean we won’t have to pay taxes?
crispybaconlover@reddit
If networks are down, you have bigger things to worry about.
fredrickdgl@reddit
Amazing all the comments here. Hope you all remember what your saying today because it won’t be how you feel in the future when you realized how much you brushed it off
TheMeteorShower@reddit
its important to ascertain what something is reducing your risk in. if the internet goes down, Bitcoin does as well, but so does traditional banking.
Bitcoin would be used to reduce your risk to inflation or banking collapse, not loss of internet. You could also reduce this risk through other means like foreign currency, assets, trading items or cash.
fredrickdgl@reddit
What does internet going down mean? If two computers with a cable connecting them still function then the internet still kinda exists. You can be sure if internet ever goes down it will get prioritized in getting put back up
Andr1yTheOne@reddit
Bitcoin will never die. Its back up is stored all over the world and even on some satellites. But in the apocalypse it would be useless.
andyring@reddit
Satellites don't store information, they simply receive and transmit it.
Andr1yTheOne@reddit
Satellites have hard drives like any other computer. They have large external storage drives. Why am I being thumb downed lol. Look it up people.
andyring@reddit
You're the one making the assertion. Show your sources.
Andr1yTheOne@reddit
You can do an easy google search and find a lot of information.
https://blockstream.com/satellite/
farfaraway@reddit
Bitcoin is useless in many scenarios that preppers prep for.
Swollwonder@reddit
Stocks and bitcoin (I hate bitcoin) are for if society doesn’t collapse. All things consider, I put that at a higher likelyhood than an actual prepping event so I don’t buy a lot of prep stuff. If you disagree buy more physical goods that you store. If SHTF then you’re going to be richer than me. But if it doesn’t then I’ll be richer than you
Just a trade off as usual like all things in life
Liber_Vir@reddit
I laugh.
IndicaTorture@reddit
If you want to be rich when SHTF, stockpile toilet paper 😂
FaceDeer@reddit
Bitcoin's protocol isn't particularly robust against a long-term netsplit. If significant chunks of mining activity become unable to communicate with each other, each chunk would start acting as a separate blockchain. Unfortunately once the two resume communicating, only one of those two blockchains would "survive" - the one with the larger amount of hashpower that had continued operating on it. All the transactions that happened on the smaller branch would be undone.
If this is something you're concerned about, I'd recommend investigating Ethereum instead. I don't recall all of the specifics, but I do recall that back when the proof-of-stake validation method it's currently running on was being worked out there was a bunch of thought put into how to handle a scenario like this. The concern was that something like the Great Firewall of China might cause parts of the Ethereum network to lose reliable contact with each other. If nothing else, with a proof-of-stake network like Ethereum you'd be able to determine how large the isolated piece of network you were "stranded" on was, and thus how likely your transactions would be to survive once the network got back together again.
Frankly, I wouldn't worry too much about this. Blockchains like Bitcoin and Ethereum are actually pretty low in bandwidth demand, they could probably maintain a unified state by resorting to transmitting state over amateur radio and such. If things get bad enough that not even that's working then blockchains are not likely to be a priority of any sort anyway.
Stangwanger68@reddit
No grid no shit coin.
Bout sums it up.
Minnesotamad12@reddit
If we reach that point Bitcoin would be worthless. As would all other currency
Ryan_e3p@reddit
No, paper currency likely be in use for quite some time. Paper currency exists, and is in circulation. People know how much something costs in dollars. No one knows how big of a sliver of silver a gallon of milk costs, or how many grams of gold a dozen ears of corn are worth.
A new currency will likely arise as time goes on and paper currency degrades or is hoarded out of circulation, but it isn't going to become worthless.
branm008@reddit
Gold, silve and other common metals would always retain some value to us, especially things like aluminum/tin. Humans love shiny things and placing value on shiny things.
Having said that, we would definitely start valuing other physical things like ammo, eggs, herb/vegetable/fruit seeds. Trade and barter would most definitely be the "new" currency system.
Glum-Ad1878@reddit
Gold and silver baby
pliskin42@reddit
What happens to the US dollar if the us government falls?
Same thing.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
No, it would likely be in use for quite some time. Paper currency exists, and is in circulation. People know how much something costs in dollars. A new currency will likely arise as time goes on and paper currency degrades or is hoarded out of circulation, but it isn't going to become worthless.
CowboyKerouac@reddit
If there is no blockchain, which requires lots of nodes on it connected over the internet, wallet transactions would not be verifiable and thus it would be impossible to transfer bitcoin to someone else. It is not a viable currency in any apocalyptic scenario in which the internet does not exist in a robust manner.
tianavitoli@reddit
Russia is using discord to organize their troop movements
I'm not convinced there's a strong desire to knock out the internet
everything runs on it, including the government
mjcostel27@reddit
Bitcoin, gold, dollars will be useless. Everything will be barter-based.
ChildofYHVH@reddit
Not sure but I would say GOLD would be a safer bet!!!!! It has risen almost a $1300.00 an ounce in the last 5 years. Would probably be ALOT higher if something was to happen. I’m sick about it too because I wanted to buy some at $1200.00 and didn’t.
Ryan_e3p@reddit
Wow, who would've guessed that imaginary internet money would have no value when the internet goes away 🤷♂️
Euphorix126@reddit
There is a very easy way to get a local internet once there's enough electricity to run a computer. The whole concept is a ledger, so it could be something like everybody sends in their transactions to a single place (or many connected computers). Functionally, you can use electronic hashed data as currency as long as you have electricity. If you have wires, you can connect a few computers across town and voilà. The vast global web that is now the internet all started with literally two (maybe three?) Computers connected with some wires(?) OK, what I'm getting at is "internet" is a loose term and would be reinvented in an instant because we still have the phones and computers to do the calculations and store data.
Buy a small solar panel for like $100
Vegetaman916@reddit
After nuclear war or whatever, there will be far more important things to worry about than our BTC. Like food. And trying not to become food.
bomberb17@reddit
From a purely technical point of view, there is no such thing as "internet gets shut down". The internet will continue to exist even in catastrophic scenarios, but it will be partitioned into smaller sub-networks which might not be able to communicate with each other, while many people might not have access to any of those sub-networks at all.
Same goes for bitcoin as well as other cryptocurrencies - these will continue to exist but the challenge here is that they won't be in "sync" across these network partitions. After network unity is gradually re-established, the cryptocurrencies will also sync across their partitioned versions using the "longest chain" rule, meaning that many blocks in some versions of those blockchains will be rewritten according to the dominant chain.
Hammy_Mach_5@reddit
I'd be more concerned about a national actor using a super computer and creating millions of vm instances /accounts and changing the chain with a 51% majority.
Various-Ducks@reddit
So is cash. And most stores of value. We'll switch to an all beanie baby economy. The only true currency.
whargarrrbl@reddit
Actually, after crises subside, stock holdings tend to be fairly durable. A lot of what constitutes civil society is whether one can be reasonably assured that they won’t become dispossessed unjustly. Stocks are a right to an interest in a corporate entity. If the entity continues to exist (say, Braun post-WW2), your interest in it should as well. Fledgling governments are usually quick to defend this right in order to demonstrate their commitment to private property.
Historically, courts have sustained somewhat comical claims of shareholdership. A screenshot of your holdings is frankly more evidence than many successful claims have ever had.
Fun_Detective_2003@reddit
This is where offline physical wallets become important...so long as you backup the account regularly.
Fun_Detective_2003@reddit
forgot - if you go this route, be sure to store it in an Faraday cage.
itssbubba@reddit
If the internet gets shut down for a long enough; crypto is the least of your concerns.
Realistically probably just hangs in limbo somewhere unless everything is fried.
Drag0nV3n0m231@reddit
Yes, obviously. Nobody will give a shit about bitcoin
QuantumForeskin@reddit
Watch bitcoin be the only thing that works.
OrdinaryDude326@reddit
IF the internet goes down, assuming you mean longterm, or else it wouldn't matter much, then the world has gone to complete shit, and bitcoin, your bank account, and brokerage account will be, at least until the internet comes back, worthless.
Never understood this argument against bitcoin. I have some bitcoin, and accept that it may become worthless in the near impossible event the whole internet goes down long term. I accept the risk. Nothing but useful physical items will be worth anything in that scenario. I'm not taking Gold either, if the world collapsed, I'm only trading for needed items. No internet means in a very short time, no deliveries of goods, nearly all stores shut down, almost total phone outage (nearly all phone calls are now routed over the internet, they pulled the old system out long ago), factory closures within days (no deliveries, and no way to coordinate shipping), all port traffic stopped. It'd be almost as bad a nuclear war.
Anyway, like I said before, if the internet goes down worldwide long term, Bitcoin is so far down the list of worries it won't matter.
BoomBoomBear@reddit
😂. So true, no net and bitcoin would be the least of our worries. Recall the last major outage in July. No planes flying, banks shut down and no 911 service in many parts of the country. Can’t imagine if it goes down permanently globally. Riots and looting from bored teenagers maybe. Lol
iChinguChing@reddit
I am not a crypto fanatic, but it will have its place. The internet was the first service restored in Puerto Rico after the hurricane through Google hoisting balloons (I believe that's what happened). In that scenario, I think crypto + some form of solar charged batteries would be better than storing silver that no-one would know how to verify its authenticity, and/or cash (which is pretty prone to being stolen).
I seriously doubt the internet is going anywhere, the world is a very interconnected place.
However, in some extreme places, the threat is a reality (Egypt 2011 for example). Here's how you can prep for an internet shutdown...
Government Internet Shutdowns Are Changing. How Should Citizens and Democracies Respond? - Carnegie Endowment for International Peace | Carnegie Endowment for International Peace
martin_xs6@reddit
You're right about the balloons. They were a part of project loon. It's one of the coolest pieces of technology ever. They could fly them all over the world by just changing the balloons altitude to catch different air currents. One balloon flew for 312 days straight. Unfortunately, the company folded in 2021.
Sporesword@reddit
EMP is very unlikely and the situations in which it causes big outages don't leave a lot of people around to care about money. Network collapse could happen but again with the nature of the network that would have to be catastrophic. BTC is a shit currency anyway. Your better off with something with fast transaction times if you want to keep your money free of a government and still use it globally.
Beautiful-Web1532@reddit
I remember the early Obama years there being a big stink that a lot of our infrastructure wasn't emp shielded. I feel like that's been slowly addressed and while emp would be bad, a lot of key infrastructure would survive these days.
jaejaeok@reddit
It’s amusing how many people hate Bitcoin while simultaneously owning a 401(k) full of derivatives and fees.
A grid down situation may be inconvenient but a bank seizing your life savings for a bail-in ponzi is worse.
KindPresentation5686@reddit
You clearly don’t understand how the Internet works. An EMP is not going to destroy the internet.
ttkciar@reddit
To be fair, something like 99.9% of everyone has no idea how the internet works.
jaejaeok@reddit
Sadly true
KindPresentation5686@reddit
That’s a safe assumption…
Emons6@reddit
The only true commodity is food and water. William DeVain is gonna get skinny real quick when he tries to eat his gold and silver.
jaejaeok@reddit
I’d add shelter to that list.
polysocialseeker@reddit
Water, food, guns/weapons, ammunition and medicine are what become valuable in the true shtf. Money means nothing, gold means nothing, big houses and fancy cars don't sustain life, but those five things mentioned above do. It doesn't matter what you had monetarily going into the shtf, it's what you come out of it with. Just my two cents from conversations with my grandfather and input from what his father had shared with him as well. Both of them lived through some really tough times in American history, being born in 1832 and 1923.
Electronic_System839@reddit
This would be when you build yourself a garden, tend to some chickens and rabbits, and learn how to defend what you have with some level 4 armor 😆
Technically, you should already be doing this given the shit storm we love in these days 🙃
GoSabo@reddit
You'll have much more pressing, more immediate things to worry about. Civil society will last for all of about 3-4 days.
marinebjj@reddit
Antibiotics, prescription pain pills and other pain medications for surgery.
Modern surgery tools, lights, cameras, beds cleaning supplies gloves mask.
You look at Gaza and Ukraine, what goes first and is most demanded besides weapons.
Medical. Groups would travel across the country to get these.
Books equipment and supplies to make steel, iron and other things we forgot to make.
But I mean it’s always basically gonna come down to
Food; medical supplies and shelter vs weapons and ammo and people to take that or trade.
crustyrope69@reddit
Nodes store the consensus and it’s rebooted where it left off. TXs can still happen w/o internet.
AncientPublic6329@reddit
Bitcoin wouldn’t disappear out of wallets, but all transfers would become impossible until the internet is re-established to enough blockchain nodes and bitcoin miners to handle said transfers. That being said, depending on the cause of the internet shutdown, the internet might not be coming back up in the foreseeable future.
OnTheEdgeOfFreedom@reddit
You can't shut down the entire internet, unless something happens world wide, at which point no one cares about bitcoins, dollars, or anything except how not to get fried by whatever took out a world-wide infrastructure.
So why ask? It's not happening.
But if you mean you lose access to it, then you'd need to get somewhere where the internet still existed, and it's probably that bitcoins are still accessible there.
Of course, if the internet got really disrupted in a lot of places, commerce crashes as well, and I doubt bitcoin, or gold, or dollars hold value.
If you worry about the internet, or hackers, or implementation bugs, or lost passwords... don't do bitcoin. It's why I don't.
Mantree91@reddit
Honestly ammo is probably one of the best post colaps currency because of its stability and usefulness. Way back when the .45 long colt was the round of choice it was often used as currency which is where shots came from is that was the amount of whisky that you could get by trading a .45 long colt at the bar.
YYCADM21@reddit
Therein lies the grind with cyber currency; It depends on the internet to have any value. However, it would be no different than any other currency or precious metals in a worldwide SHTF the caused the system of commerce to fail. It would have no value. you're such further ahead to use any liquid assets Before a massive collapse, buying things you can use; food, shelter, water, barter goods, defensive weaponry. Those things will become the basis for commerce, not shiny metal, for at least as long as you lifetime, probably longer
TheCarcissist@reddit
Define "goes out"
Rbelkc@reddit
Evaporation
IndicationIcy4173@reddit
thats why i stack gold silver lead on top of bitcoin.
MmeLaRue@reddit
Cryptocurrencies would all be useless in a grid-down SHTF scenario.
If we're going to discuss common vehicles of exchange post-collapse, the local cash will likely continue to be the coin of choice for most transactions people might be able to negotiate. Why? Because it's what people know and are used to. There is a huge psychological benefit to keeping things as normal as possible. If any common vehicle becomes too concentrated into too few hands, it does run the risk of losing its value to those without it. They'll simply move to bartering or even a gift economy, and may even respond with hostility when it is offered for exchange. For those stuck in an area or region without the currency, barter or exchanging labour directly for goods or services might be their only solution.
In the long term, those communities which are relatively self-sufficient for its basics (shelter, clean water, food and related, possibly textiles) will have little need for cash and may be able to barter its goods for just about anything else that might be needed or desired. Again, this will depend on the distribution of cash throughout a region.
As long as there is a government in place which can enforce its laws, there will be a common vehicle of exchange. That's why all the emergency manuals give the instruction to have cash on hand (preferably in various denominations and coinage) as part of your survival preps. Anything that relies on numbers on a ledger or in a computer might as well not exist when the world goes pear-shaped.
Far_Landscape1066@reddit
It’s goes bye bye
n3wb33Farm3r@reddit
In the end anything is only worth what someone else is willing to give you for it. Being that bitcoin doesn't physically exist be kind of like a step down from selling pet rocks. I invested in a product that doesn't exist. Please take some of my non existing assets in exchange for beans/ammo/antibiotics. Better be a pretty good salesman.
DannyWarlegs@reddit
Not just bitcoin but basically all money. 90% of all of our money exists purely in digital form. Think about it.
You get paid from work via direct deposit. That money transfers from your works account to yours digitally. You then buy something on Amazon. Money goes from your digital account to their digital account.
And this is EXACTLY what governments want. Already in China, you can have your purchases restricted if you have a low "social credit score".
In Dubai, your bank accounts and credit cards are directly connected to your government ID. If you get caught on one of the millions of cameras speeding, they just take the money from your account.
Eredani@reddit
Even if you have your bitcoin stored on an encrypted digital walled on a laptop or external drive, the block chain will not be available to conduct transactions.
A government (US or China mainly) can pull the plug on any cryptocurrency pretty easy if they really want to. Yes, they are distributed but still vulnerable to disruptions.
If there is a WW3 it's not just going to be fought by militaries on some distant battlefield like 1 and 2. Global combat zones include cyberspace, orbital assets, long range missiles, terrorism, infrastructure attacks, biological, chemical, and, of course, nuclear attacks.
2cats2hats@reddit
If the internet somehow gets 'shut down' you can be assured fiat money won't hold value much longer.
Randomized007@reddit
Crypto is international, overall it's fine. Price may go down from the activity drop off, or pop because so many coins were "lost"
PTIowa@reddit
I do have some crypto as a hedge, primarily as money I can access literally anywhere from a computer and at the moment carries a set value. But yes totally worthless without the internet
Simulis1@reddit
Yep
XKryptix0@reddit
🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀
SomeoneInQld@reddit
Correct.