Riker being "seduced" by the Malcorian nurse was such pure camp :)
Posted by microtramp@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 127 comments
Posted by microtramp@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 127 comments
bilgobabbinsa@reddit
K but if it were Tasha Yar being propositioned by a male in exchange for freedom how would that look?
Riker should have been able to escape not escrape
RhinoKeepr@reddit
Lilith
mythrocks@reddit
Wait till Frasier gets his hands on Riker.
mybadalternate@reddit
Dude has killed Riker several times!
AJSLS6@reddit
Why do you think the Bozeman never even tried to avoid the Enterprise?
mybadalternate@reddit
“Ramming speed!”
“Sir, they depressurized their shuttlebay doors and dodged us!”
“Oh, uh, shit. Hail them I guess.”
Memento_Morrie@reddit
I sometimes wonder if, offscreen, between the time they activated the tractor and they were struck by the Bozeman, Riker ever said, "Way to go, jackass!" at Data, then turned to Picard and said, "Ooh, and you, picking your pet android over the human suggestion!"
You know, it just occurred to me that Data must have wanted to die. Surely, he would know the weight of the Bozeman down to the kilogram, approximated her speed, and known the capabilities of the tractor and run the scenario and known his suggestion would fail before he even voiced it.
CaydenSworn@reddit
These things happen. They happen every day.
mythrocks@reddit
“Everyday in Arkansas!”
drillgorg@reddit
Forget Riker, JDV is gonna go fight Frasier over this scene.
deadmeatsandwich@reddit
Yeah, Captain Morgan Bateson is going to be pissed. A lot happened when he was in that temporal rift.
profaniKel@reddit
its her Horny twin !!!
for reals ... mentioned on Chèers
SleepWouldBeNice@reddit
Seahawk124@reddit
hobbestot@reddit
OMG IT IS!!! How did I mot notice?! I’m such a fool!
MeatyDullness@reddit
HellyOHaint@reddit
Ah yes laughing at male victims of sexual coercion. A favorite pastime of media.
alanmichaels@reddit
As if riker wouldn’t have absolutely high jumped on the chance given he wasn’t in his current predicament, lol
caulkglobs@reddit
I mean he did it anyway and i love how it bought him exactly zero time in his escape attempt.
Sumthin-Sumthin44692@reddit
“I had no choice, Captain. What could I do? ¯_(ツ)_/¯“
alanmichaels@reddit
Understood. Make it so.
Sumthin-Sumthin44692@reddit
Engage
bookant@reddit
It's a product of a long ago time in which we had senses of humor and a sense of perspective. We didn't seem to have as much time on our hands to search for things to be offended about all day every day.
NinjasWithOnions@reddit
If you’re not offended by r*pe, maybe you need to take a closer look in the mirror. This gave me the ick back in 1991 when it first aired and I knew what she was doing was wrong even if I didn’t know then that it was r*pe.
bookant@reddit
If you have that much distinguishing between a fantasy TV show and reality, its probably time for you to spend a whole lot less time in front of screens. Seems to be an issue for your entire generation.
NinjasWithOnions@reddit
Dude, I’m GenX.
Also, wasn’t sure if I could say it in this sub.
And, finally, I have no problem distinguishing the difference between tv show/movies and reality. However, the sexual assault of men being played off as harmless is an issue and Pop Culture Detective made 2 videos about it. One with male perpetrators and one with female perpetrators.
I’m well aware that media companies “don’t owe us anything” but I also think they should have a responsibility to not send out bad messages. In this case, that Riker getting raped by an alien is funny/okay because she’s a hot alien. And not just a hot alien, but a Bebe Neuwirth level hot alien. “hehehe He must want it because who wouldn’t want sex with a hot alien that looks like Bebe Neuwirth?” NO. Guys need to be told that rape is never okay and just because “she was hot” or “it wasn’t rape because men want sex all the time anyway” are shitty messages. They need to know that what happened to them is awful, it’s not their fault, and that their feelings are valid and supported.
Episodes like this throw out confusing messages and it needs to be addressed when it happens. (And we can still call out older media for its share of bad messaging.)
bookant@reddit
Dude, I'm Gen X, and why the fuck would you cite some sort of You Tube "internet famous" influencer as if they were some kind of authoritative source. For anything.
I don't care what they made videos about.
NinjasWithOnions@reddit
Because he’s a guy that makes interesting, informative videos that provide examples and sources? Because it’s cool to learn new things and see other perspectives?
Frankly, you sound like the high-school-in-the-80s-might-as-well-be-a-boomer side of GenX.
bookant@reddit
Ah, so you're one of those Millennials who thinks you're an X. It all makes sense now.
NinjasWithOnions@reddit
Also, get the fuck off my lawn.
wiscomm@reddit
Idk man, you seem to be moved by it (definitely not humored) enough to defend it on Reddit. Seems kinda like you had an emotional response to being offended or something. 🤪
bookant@reddit
Yeah, because dicking around on my phone during a quiet time at work totally requires a massive emotional investment in a TV episode I saw like 30 years ago.
This is literally the dumbest take ever, every time it's posted, doesn't even matter what the conversation is about.
wiscomm@reddit
Seems like it. If you keep smelling poo all day check your shoe, bc most people don’t come across that take often my love.
bookant@reddit
English not your first language? What are trying to say there?
It's OK, though, calm down. Take a deep breath. I mean, you replied to a Reddit comment so obviously you're feeling a deep and powerful sense of whatever emotion I decide to project onto you.
wiscomm@reddit
Ok boomer. Go back to watching fox, where people won’t think you’re weird for defending sexual assault. ♥️🤍💙🦅
bookant@reddit
You're just full of idiotic assumptions, aren't you? I've got 12 years full of comment history, you can see for yourself there's nothing conservative about me. Just not a whinny little zoomer who doesn't have a single thought in his head that doesn't involve looking for things to be offended about.
Turboblurb@reddit
Saying, "back in my day we thought a man being coerced into sex was funny." is conservative. It's okay to admit that some things were wrong even though they were widely accepted.
AJSLS6@reddit
And you apparently have never been assaulted, good for you.
Jean-LucBacardi@reddit
Hell even by 2012 the scene in 40 days and 40 nights had become unaccepted. Actually I remember watching it in 2002 when it came out and wondering how the fuck a plot where guy gets dumped by his girlfriend for being raped against his will was thought to be a good idea in a romantic comedy.
bookant@reddit
News to me. But I have the aforementioned senses of humor and perspective.
Acceptingoptimist@reddit
What's hilarious is he could do anything and say that's sex for them and she wouldn't know. He could stick his finger in her ear and burp and say he just came and how would she know?
secondtaunting@reddit
That was a scene in Babylon five. The female commander was getting harassed for sex by some species, and she finally agreed, then she danced around him in a circle and told him they had sex.
flourishing_really@reddit
"What do I do now?"
"Old style, you roll over and go to bed. New style, you go out for pizza, I never see you again."
Foxwolf00@reddit
It was how that species sealed contracts, supposedly.
secondtaunting@reddit
Yeah it’s been ages since I’ve seen Babylon five. One of my favorite gags on the Big Bang Theory was Leonard and Sheldon fighting over watching it.
Billy1121@reddit
Dammit Ivanova
m7_E5-s--5U@reddit
People like to say that, but couldn't he really? No.
He wasn't in a random street encounter with an alien woman. They had been studying and making note of every one of the anatomical differences between himself and them, and he was there for a lot longer than the screen time we have of him.
The reality is that she probably only forced him into that situation because she knew he could fulfill it.
Acceptingoptimist@reddit
Of course HE knows. SHE doesn't.
m7_E5-s--5U@reddit
You are not wrong, and we all know that if the sexes had been reversed, the conversation around this scene would be... charged, to say the least.
Michael-Aaron@reddit
random-andros@reddit
Great episode
The-Minmus-Derp@reddit
That is unequivocally sexual assault, and no one cares apparently.
micromoses@reddit
What does caring look like? The show depends on conflict of a lot of different kinds. People get killed, tortured, imprisoned, enslaved. Scenes with people committing crimes against each other can still be good scenes.
bigersmaler@reddit
If the character Riker were asked if he was raped by alien Lilith - the most likely scenario is he would do that knowingly smile face.
Sumthin-Sumthin44692@reddit
It totally is, but it’s supposed to be a play on the stories by alien abductees who also say that they had sex with aliens. Is basically asking, “what if the kooky stories are true? Here’s how that might happen.”
microtramp@reddit (OP)
It's a good point. Though, it bears discussion, maybe? Like, for example, I have been explicitly sexually assaulted in a number of contexts. My feelings about them were clear: I had to rage and cry and scream after because of how gross and violating and intrusive they felt. But I have also been "coerced" into sex that I didn't necessarily want, but participated in because it was...expedient, if that makes sense. I would prefer not to do that again, but it was not the same feeling in my body as the explicit assault. Is it still rape? I wouldn't call it rape, myself. to be honest. On the other hand, if the genders were reversed in this scene, it would change the tenor of the scene entirely for me. If you listen to Riker's voice, he shifts very quickly into what sounds to me like his seductive voice when they start negotiating. Idk, it's kind of messy in my mind, and not clear cut.
The-Minmus-Derp@reddit
The fact that flipping the genders changes things says less about the scene and more about how fucked up our societal standards are
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I am not unaware of the apparent double standard. And I certainly don't mean to suggest I speak for all of society.
unsuspectingllama_@reddit
I love this episode.
AskingSatan@reddit
Came in just for the Frasier jokes. LOL
dhdoctor@reddit
It was a rare moment from rick berman where he decided for a male to be raped.
jsonitsac@reddit
And as Harry Kim would one day learn, rank has its privileges
GargamelLeNoir@reddit
Also the moment where it was proven that he's not as clever as Susan Ivanova.
Conscious-Snow-8411@reddit
That episode is in my top 3 favorite TNG episodes. I've been dying to know what happened to Mirasta Yale after leaving her homeworld.
Luftgekuhlt_driver@reddit
CheetahOfDeath@reddit
so many low effort 'aliens'. then they go overboard with the fish people
Mistervimes65@reddit
It's Bebe Neuwirth. The only polite answer is, yes.
BuddenceLembeck@reddit
The only answer, polite or otherwise, is yes.
Just ask Niles.
Sumthin-Sumthin44692@reddit
Yes, thank you.
Pm7I3@reddit
Every time I see this episode I get hung up on how they were infiltrating a xenophobic society and, despite their incredible medical technology, they covered up having too many fingers with gloves. They've changed faces and they gave him gloves
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I guess there are some shortcomings to Starfleet's medical insurance after all.
Exa2552@reddit
What does “camp” mean? Is this how youths talk?
Exa2552@reddit
SeveredExpanse@reddit
deleting a comment is such a weird move. why bother posting at all?
GrandmaSlappy@reddit
Camp is an older term, shocked you don't know it
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I might be using it in a way that's more adjacent to its correct meaning. I think of it as being sort of parody, on the nose, or tongue in cheek. It felt like the writers were exaggerating Riker's legendary sexual prowess as an obvious joke to the audience. But camp used to describe entertainment is more narrowly defined as "deliberately exaggerated and theatrical in style, typically for humorous effect" according to Oxford.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
also, I'm 47, for what it is worth :)
joebeaudoin@reddit
KayBeeToys@reddit
Have we tried glasses off, hair down?
BulletNoseBetty@reddit
Oh, and do you know a Captain Bateson?
DarkHeliopause@reddit
One of my favorite episodes.
BecomingButterfly@reddit
Worst part of an otherwise good episode
upthewaterfall@reddit
My aliiieenn
GrandmaSlappy@reddit
He wasn't seduced, he was coerced and raped, did we not watch the same episode?
Abject-Management558@reddit
You are on crack.
irongi8nt@reddit
More accurate today than ever!
TomBirkenstock@reddit
It just goes to show that there's no situation that William Riker can't fuck his way out of.
Billy1121@reddit
Crystalline entity turned his girl into straight up sand that one time
But i guess he still got out alive
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Well, I don't know that I'd go that far. Definitely at least one Riker episode that leaves a bad taste in most peoples' mouths on that front, I think. But this one just struck me as so eyeroll-y and straight out of some bad late night space sex romp, that I felt compelled to share.
TomBirkenstock@reddit
It's also so tonally off from the rest of the episode, which is in the vein of an episode of Twilight Zone.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
It really stuck out! Felt like the writers were having a bit of a laugh at the audience, maybe.
TomBirkenstock@reddit
It did seem like they needed a couple more pages in the screenplay and then came up with this scene as a joke and forgot to take it out.
mybadalternate@reddit
Borg invasion?
Riker cracks an energy drink and starts stretching
UsagiJak@reddit
Rape,
she raped him.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I commented this earlier, but it seems appropriate:
It's a good point. Though, it bears discussion, maybe? Like, for example, I have been explicitly sexually assaulted in a number of contexts. My feelings about them were clear: I had to rage and cry and scream after because of how gross and violating and intrusive they felt. But I have also been "coerced" into sex that I didn't necessarily want, but participated in because it was...expedient, if that makes sense. I would prefer not to do that again, but it was not the same feeling in my body as the explicit assault. Is it still rape? I wouldn't call it rape, myself. to be honest. On the other hand, if the genders were reversed in this scene, it would change the tenor of the scene entirely for me. If you listen to Riker's voice, he shifts very quickly into what sounds to me like his seductive voice when they start negotiating. Idk, it's kind of messy in my mind, and not clear cut.
GrandmaSlappy@reddit
It's still rape. Rape doesn't have to be violent.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Ok, I hear that.
UsagiJak@reddit
I dont think there is anything to debate really in my opinion, Riker is captive, shes in a position of power, Riker declines at first and she demands again, its his only way out.
But he was still put in a impossible postion by someone who had authority, if it were a make alien who did the same thing to Troi or Crusher i dont think we'd even be discussing semantics.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I mean, I wasn't trying to debate anything. I was just speaking to my own experience.
UsagiJak@reddit
Oh me neither, just posting my thoughts on it is all.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I hear you. And I made an edit to my response to you, for what it's worth. I absolutely don't mean to dismiss those whose experience of the scene feels more painful than mine.
UsagiJak@reddit
You're a good egg.
Mass-Effect-6932@reddit
What if she became pregnant and how will she explain the situation to her society?
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Does raise some questions about Riker's adherence to the Prime Directive if he, in face, acquiesced.
mybadalternate@reddit
They weren’t a post-scarcity society as I recall. He’ll probably also have some child support to pay.
rrsullivan3rd@reddit
*fact
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Thanks!
OtisTDrunk@reddit
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Sort of a non-sequitur but I'll allow it.
OtisTDrunk@reddit
I will Change It.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I did go to college, after all.
BigConstruction4247@reddit
Your mom goes to college.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
*(laugh track)*
hattrickjmr@reddit
I keep waiting for the unedited NC-17 version of the episode to be released.
Other-Cantaloupe4765@reddit
He was taken advantage of. He was raped.
Not seduced.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
It's a good point. Though, it bears discussion, maybe? Like, for example, I have been explicitly sexually assaulted in a number of contexts. My feelings about them were clear: I had to rage and cry and scream after because of how gross and violating and intrusive they felt. But I have also been "coerced" into sex that I didn't necessarily want, but participated in because it was...expedient, if that makes sense. I would prefer not to do that again, but it was not the same feeling in my body as the explicit assault. Is it still rape? I wouldn't call it rape, myself. to be honest. On the other hand, if the genders were reversed in this scene, it would change the tenor of the scene entirely for me. If you listen to Riker's voice, he shifts very quickly into what sounds to me like his seductive voice when they start negotiating. Idk, it's kind of messy in my mind, and not clear cut.
Other-Cantaloupe4765@reddit
No offense, but I was sexually abused for a decade and would rather not discuss this subject in detail
Melody_BasedLifeform@reddit
Riker's best line in the series is from this episode. I'll make a follow up post to share it
Professional-Edge496@reddit
You posted this 38 minutes ago, dear redditor. I need this post stat.
Also, my guess is “I’ll call you the next time I pass through your solar system.”
Melody_BasedLifeform@reddit
This IS the quote, TY.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
I'm so curious!
thismustbtheplace215@reddit
This scene makes me wildly uncomfortable.
microtramp@reddit (OP)
Same. I was listening to it without watching this morning and started squirming and had to laugh. It's so weird, and funny, and uncomfortable all at the same time for me. Edges a little to close to some sort of Letters To Penthouse or whatever, and makes me wonder what the writers room dialogue looked like on this one.
BeautifulArtichoke37@reddit
One of the best scenes in all of Trek
ImprobabilityCloud@reddit
It makes me uncomfortable tbh, it’s so rapey
That being said this is one of my fave eps
PuzzleheadedCook4578@reddit
Show a little respect for the beautiful and brilliant Bebe Neuwirth!
Oh my days I love this woman.
Lynthae@reddit
Sexual coercion