Ok, so you don’t care to survive TEOTWAWKI? Cool, so what’s your plan?
Posted by Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit | preppers | View on Reddit | 86 comments
Many recent posts and comments regarding the desire to not deal with TEOTWAWKI, total SHTF, complete collapse, return to the Middle Ages, etc. The feeling is completely understandable. I don’t think any sane person is keen on this scenario.
I used to have this discussion with my father when he was in his 80’s and 90’s – he has since passed away. His comment was “Just leave me by the wayside!” – and again, I get where he was coming from. But, really, how does this play out? Ok, you sit there and then what? A few hours later you are thirsty, then hungry, then cold, then tired. A few days later you are probably still alive but also probably miserable. What is the plan?
Serious question for those that (understandably) don’t want to play this game: What is your exit strategy? Are you prepared for a passive ending, something like a hunger strike? A more active approach like seppuku, cyanide pill or whatever? Or just hoping to be taken out quickly? What if none of those play out as you expect?
I think it’s more likely for people to game it out if they can. As many others have noted, our core survival instinct is strong. We are the result of the perseverance of thousands of generations of humans who made it through tough times. At a minimum, most people will at least wait and see how bad things get. But where is the red line? Does anyone really know?
Ok, enough empathizing and pondering, time to piss people off. What is really going to happen is most people who actively consider this scenario and make a conscious decision not to play will obviously not be prepped for it. But if it happens, those survival instincts that have served us so well will kick in and we’ll have extra players in the game. Players that will be thirsty, hungry, cold, and scared with no easy off ramp. Do you see where I’m going with this?
I suspect these well-intentioned people may be hit with a hard dose of reality and suddenly instead of being a prepper part of the solution, they are adding to the problem instead. Hard truth: Every family out there that is not prepared for a disaster creates a potential problem for those that are prepared in a serious emergency.
I’m not suggesting that everyone needs to adopt a doomsday mentality or stockpile a years’ worth of food. Just be aware that there is often no easy way out of difficult situations. Let’s at least be realistic about that.
kouteki@reddit
You assume there will be a SHTF scenario, and that's where yout logic is flawed.
Most people bet on the society in a disaster scenario. And most of them live happy, fulfilled lives. Would they better off prepping for an emergency? Probably. But they are in most cases not a big burden to the local community, and those who prep get to save more than themselves, strengthening the community. I'd be the first to help the non-prep medical professional down the street, than to live in a fantasy where I'm suturing my own wounds and setting a broken arm.
People bring something to the table, even when they don't prep.
Source: grew up during a civil war.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
I assume nothing. I'm asking the question: What is the exit strategy IF the worst should happen?
(Note the "IF" there...)
No-Theme2387@reddit
Fentanyl??
less_butter@reddit
Many people believe that such a scenario is so unlikely that it's not worth spending the mental, emotional, physical, and financial resources on it.
The modern prepper/survivalist movement got started in the late 60s and early 70s. That's when people first started talking about stockpiling food, water, and gold/silver for the imminently coming total economic collapse and social breakdown (before then, people stockpiled food to get through a bad winter, etc). By now, most of those people died of old age without ever seeing the collapse they were expecting. They dedicated their entire lives to preparing for something that never happened.
Do you have a detailed plan for what you'll do if aliens invade? It's impossible to plan for that because nobody knows what it'll look like. And it's also extremely unlikely. So it's simply not worth spending time thinking about unless that's just your idea of a fun hobby.
Yes, shit gets bad sometimes. There's been a part of the world in a state of war/collapse/famine/whatever for nearly all of human history. But there's never been a time where there was just no help and no future for the entire planet. And there probably won't ever be in my lifetime.
And for me personally - I'm in my late 40s. I'm married but we have no kids. If there's a complete collapse of society and shit gets really bad, there's really no point to me struggling to survive. If I had kids I might think differently about it. But still, I'd put my efforts into helping other people survive and if I'm not able to do that I'll just walk off into the mountains in the winter and freeze to death or get eaten by a bear or whatever. But I seriously don't see a point to me stockpiling a year's worth of food and water to see me survive a horrific famine. If I did have a year's worth of food, I'd likely share it with a family with kids so at least they have a chance at a future.
mcapello@reddit
People so triggered by a hypothetical question they have to write a six-paragraph essay on why they supposedly don't care about something.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Completely missed the point of the question.
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
In the event of an alien invasion we must protect Jeff Goldbloom and Will Smith at all costs.
mercedes_lakitu@reddit
Are you familiar with the concept of Expected Value? Basically, it's (size of thing) times (likelihood of thing).
Both of those factors need to be considered here.
If Likelihood is low enough, then Size is irrelevant.
Does that make sense?
You can learn more about Expected Value by taking an elementary probability and statistics class. Or by playing poker!
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Thanks for missing the point. I'm not saying this is going to happen... or likely to happen. I'm asking these folks that don't want to stick around about their exit strategy.
I'm also pointing out as a general principle that lack of preparedness for some creates a problem for others.
SunLillyFairy@reddit
Welcome to most of society. Keep preaching… people who are not prepped definitely have a negative impact on people who are… even in a local disaster like wildfire or earthquake. But after working disaster response for years I can tell you that most people are not prepped at all. Most people who show up at shelters have nothing but their lives and needs.
Way back in the way back, people called their neighbors irresponsible and lazy if they didn’t have a stocked cellar and didn’t prep for the winter. Today in most places that’s a foreign concept to the majority.
mercedes_lakitu@reddit
I haven't prepared an exit strategy for Total SHTF for the same reason I haven't prepared an exit strategy for Aliens Invade.
🤷♀️
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Still missing the point. I'm not saying it's going to happen. I'm not telling anyone how to prep.
emp-cme@reddit
To assume SHTF cannot happen is flawed. Our society is more vulnerable to collapse than at any time in the past due to total reliance on power and internet, a clear Achilles heel.
dnhs47@reddit
There were thriving cities before electricity and there was nothing you’d recognize as the internet until I was 40 years old. We got along fine; maybe better in many respects.
Yes, there’d be a wrenching change if electricity - and therefore the internet, and many other things - went away.
But how exact does “electricity go away”? What makes my solar panels stop working, or my generator? Not short-term, but permanently?
That’s the part I just don’t buy, continent-scale disruption that can’t be fixed even on a local scale by knowledgeable people with materials on hand. I wouldn’t be trying to power my city, just my house (done) or block.
If you’ve got the money to burn to become self-sufficient in complete isolation from the rest of the world, with everything we have today, congratulations Mark, Jeff, or Elon. Why are you wasting your time on Reddit?
If you’re not one of their ilk with a few spare billions to burn, you’re delusional thinking you can recreate the world of today in your isolated kingdom.
emp-cme@reddit
Past times that were not totally reliant on current technology is an apples to oranges comparison. No, it would not be, “wrenching change,” it would be collapse.
“the part I just don’t buy, continent-scale disruption that can’t be fixed”
That’s because you’re apparently spectacularly uninformed.
dnhs47@reddit
Name-calling, a compelling technique, kudos!
Everything you're accustomed to doing using the internet was done before the internet.
Make a restaurant reservation? Pick up the phone. Order a product for delivery? Visit the Sears or JC Penney store. Split the lunch tab? That's why we carried cash. Transfer money between bank accounts? Visit the bank branch. Monitor a sensor reading in a factory? Walk over to the sensor and use your eyes. Look up some fact? Read an encyclopedia or some other book, or talk (or correspond with) an expert.
The internet just made all of that happen faster.
All of those things would continue without the internet.
If the big power plants mysteriously stop working, you get the situation in most developing countries. People there haven't rolled over a died; they've worked out viable, local solutions.
People will run generators until the distribution of gasoline stops, then they'll convert the internal combustion engines to use wood gas, or burn wood or coal to make steam power.
These things existed before electricity and work just as well today as they did back then.
You imagine people will just stop thinking, and stop solving the problems they're facing. I don't.
You imagine there are no alternatives to the services you rely on. I know there are alternatives because I'm not "spectacularly uninformed."
Sure, the "influencers" and "Rich Housewives" types will be adrift and useless (are they useful today?), but many people will be knowledgable and creative enough to adapt and overcome, and they'll be just fine.
If you can't adapt and overcome in that situation, that'll be on you.
emp-cme@reddit
You said I was delusional and complain about being called uninformed. Interesting. There is a word to describe that...
Please research before responding. What you're repeating is clearly not looking at or aware of the big picture.
mercedes_lakitu@reddit
My plan is to survive a hurricane or temporary localized emergency.
Total SHTF is not going to happen.
thisisnorthe@reddit
Nothing ever happens
mercedes_lakitu@reddit
Huh? My water main broke a few years ago and I was damned glad to have emergency drinking water and wet wipes so I didn't have to go out into 12 degree weather.
What do you mean by "nothing ever happens" ? I may be misunderstanding you.
thisisnorthe@reddit
Apologies. There are a lot of people who post “It’s Happening!” headlines when in reality nothing substantial is actually occurring, thus “Nothing ever happens”
mercedes_lakitu@reddit
Ohhhhh
Yeah that stuff is just scamming, I gotcha now.
nemleszekpolcorrect@reddit
Millions of people are right now living in conditions 1. World citizens would consider end-of-world. Yet they are existing, are even happy, without prepping.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Oh? The people in North Korea, Venezuela and Somalia are happy?
Pbandsadness@reddit
I asked my North Korean friend how he likes it there. He said, "I can't complain."
xamott@reddit
He meant that literally.
Pbandsadness@reddit
That's the joke...
UPdrafter906@reddit
Are you implying that none of them are happy?
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Venezuela is not ranked very high in the 2024 World Happiness Report. North Korea and Somalia aren't even on the list. Idk, would you be happy living in those countries?
The point here is that quality of life does matter. Health care, nutrition, safe drinking water, sanitation, rule of law are not just abstract concepts.
UPdrafter906@reddit
Happiness is more than a ranking.
nemleszekpolcorrect@reddit
I bet some of them are. Happiness could come from small acheivements, like being able to get food.just like a lot of unhappy people are in the world, who has everything Venezuelans are dreaming about...
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
But they grew up in those conditions and have been taught how to navigate that lifestyle. We need to prep which includes learning how to do the things those people do on a daily basis otherwise we wouldn’t know how to survive in those conditions. That’s kinda the point. It’s not all about stockpiling enough supplies to last you the rest of your life because that’s impossible to do.
nemleszekpolcorrect@reddit
My bad...living in Hungary I am already ready. 😎
RedditAnswerz@reddit
This is kinda wrong though. The phrase end the world as WE know it implies the end of OUR current lifestyles and expectations. Quality of life dropping is different than being raised in lower quality of life since birth. A sudden drop in things like showers, food, leisure, etc would undoubtedly cause some, probably most, people to experience immense amount of depression, anxiety, etc.
nemleszekpolcorrect@reddit
Maybe you are right.. I live in Hungary, my regular lifestyle (though I am satisfied with it) naturally consists the basic prepping ideas...and most of the state provided services are already in decline...so I am ready
BaylisAscaris@reddit
My wife needs a specific medication to live and I need the same one plus some others for quality of life. They go bad quickly and are difficult to make.
My plan is to give her mine, get as much as we can, and hope things get better. Episode 3 of The Last of Us hit me hard because that's basically us. The plan is to maintain hope that things aren't permanently messed up and if we die we die.
parmesan_garlic@reddit
In my opinion preparing or dedicating lots of time and resources to an end of the world scenario is a waste of time and resources for 99% of people. Wanna build a bunker and spend all your free time learning to homestead? Fine. I’m gonna spend time with family and an assortment of other hobbies and be happy with 6 months of prep. We’ll see who spent their time better in the afterlife. A good fraction of those who don’t prepare will still do what they can to survive IF it happens. It’s just like how I don’t spend time thinking about winning the lottery, and I find it a waste of time to buy tickets, but if I did win I’d totally take advantage of it. My problem is that an inordinate amount of time is spent by people on this subreddit discussing very low yield fantasy scenarios, rather than practical preparedness for things much much more likely to occur.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Cool story. Well, this post wasn't aimed at you but rather all the OTHER people that have stated that don't want to survive a situation that THEY described. The question was only about their exit plan because my sense is that they haven't really thought this through.
I don't think the end of the world is coming and I don't prep for it. But if it does happen you and the rest of the people who don't prep but like to troll the prepper forum are going to be surprised at how real the shit gets.
Seems to me you are the one wasting an inordinate amount of time... doing what exactly?
Trolls gotta troll. eh? You do you, buddy.
Dragon-Lola@reddit
Can someone identify the abbreviation please? TEOTWAWKI is probably well-known to you experienced preppers, but us newbies would appreciate spelling it on first mention.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
The End Of The World As We Know It.
Dragon-Lola@reddit
Of course, duh! Thank you 😊
dnhs47@reddit
Your problem with my continued existence in that scenario is not my concern. If I’m making it harder on you by continuing to breathe, too bad, sucks to be you, I really don’t care.
I’m prepared to end my life on my terms if the time comes. That’s already more than you need to know.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Cool story, bro. Thanks for sharing.
dnhs47@reddit
You asked.
ThisOneTimeAtKDK@reddit
I DONT plan on just dying. We are in a pretty rural place.
IF I did though. There’s plenty of overpass bridges I could dive off of, and plenty of lakes I could “take a swim in” (I can’t swim). Both are destined to happen once the initial choice happens.
matt05891@reddit
You really should learn to swim.
ThisOneTimeAtKDK@reddit
Tried. Like 6 years of swim lessons. I sink like a rock.
TanteJu5@reddit
Not everyone needs to be a doomsday prepper. A basic level of preparedness and awareness can help mitigate the potential chaos. Even simple steps like having extra food, water, and basic supplies can make a difference.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
You missed the point and that is not the question. I'm not saying doomsday will happen and I'm not telling anyone how to prep. The question is for the people who have stated they don't want to stick around if SHFT. I'm fine with that, just wondering what their exit strategy is... if they have one.
TanteJu5@reddit
You are right. I said that in general.
kidtykat@reddit
Don't have one. If the initial whatever doesn't take me out, then I guess I'll figure it out then, use the preps I have and go from there
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Honest response. Thanks.
FrankParkerNSA@reddit
The reality is that in an event like TEOTWAWKI, nobody- including the governments of the world or the preppers here are 100% prepared.
We all talk a big game, but unless you've served in a combat role deployed overseas you've never had to take another human life, myself included. We say we'd "sleep easy" if we had to in self defense but statistics show that's not the case. We might have full bellies and plenty of water but nobody is prepared to deal with a son, daughter, or spouse going insane from the changes around us. If your kid takes their own life, how will we react?
My gut says the best you can honestly hope for is to stay as comfortable as possible and allow yourself and your family gradually adjust to the new normal over a period of months. Without professional mental help, we might not be able to adjust ourselves and we better be ready to deal with that outcome too.
samtresler@reddit
I am amazed this post ends with:
"Let's at least be realistic about that."
Oh! Now we're trying to be realistic. Sorry, got confused on when we were to pay homage to Furiosa and when we were supposed to be realistic.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Context: Let's be realistic "that there is often no easy way out of difficult situations"
Thanks for missing the point. Reading comprehension please. Asking the people who don't want to stick around if they have given any thought to an exit strategy.
samtresler@reddit
That isn't context. That's just another sentence.
I did not miss the point. It is a ridiculous point.
As in, this is a totally fictitious, unrealistic timeline that you are asking people, people you already acknowledge don't want to play this game, to treat realistically.
You refer to people as "players" in your game. You refer to it as a game.
So, no. NOBODY missed your point.
Your point is not worth considering.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
The people who have commented on this scenario have said "it's a game not worth playing" - their words, not mine. They have also said that they would not try to "game it out" - again not my terminology but this is in common use and is generally understood.
So you went from intentionally misunderstanding what I said and when that didn't work you went to intentionally making an erroneous literal interpretation.
Finally, I'm not the one saying this might happen. I'm asking the people who have already stated that IF it does happen THEN they have no intention of sticking around.
Again, reading comprehension skills! Gotta work on that!
samtresler@reddit
Just what?
You call it a game. Right up there in your post.
Are you saying you mean "game" metaphorically? Because otherwise how the hell do you get "erroneous literal interpretation". You literally use the word "game". I am not erroneous in that.
I never intentionally or unintentionally misunderstood you.
Again. I get what you are saying.
I just think it's a bad take, poorly thought out, and overall a giant waste of time and energy from this sub.
You, on the other hand, seem to be under a classic misunderstanding that people who disagree with you must not understand what you're saying.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Feel free to disagree all you like. But you clearly do not understand the topic of the post as you have not addressed the main question: "What is your exit strategy?" which is being directed at people who have said they don't want to stick around if SHTF.
If you don't think SHTF will happen, cool. Neither do I but it is a possibility.
If you think everyone will still be ok after SHTF, cool. Reasonable people can disagree on that.
If you think this is a stupid question, cool. Feel free to disengage. You seem to be the one wasting time and energy.
alphatango308@reddit
I just want to get my kids somewhere safe. I have an auto immune disease. If I can't get meds, my quality of life starts to go down immediately. So I KNOW I'm not making it long term. My family can. I just need to get them to a point where they can continue without me. As much as that fucking sucks, I'm ok with it. But I will fight like fucking hell to get there.
D_dUb420247@reddit
I believe if we do have any scenarios such as this it’ll be all played by ear. Your next move won’t be clear. Until it is.
SunLillyFairy@reddit
I think when folks make that statement there is an unspoken, implied message that they will either end themselves, OR because they are not prepped for TEOTWAWKI ( or don’t live in a place that would support survival) they likely won’t make it and they are OK with that.
Not the philosophical answer, but how I read it. You make a fair point that you can’t count on death coming quickly to you, it can be pretty random who survived, (I recall reading about these girls who survived Hiroshima because they were playing in the bunkers), and if you’re left over… then what? But what people choose to prep for (or not) is really at their discretion, and it sounds like some are hedging their prep bets on “it’s not ganna happen” or “I’m not ganna make it if it does.”
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
That was my thought and the point of the post. I'm curious to know how people who don't want to stick around plan to handle that.
Thanks for an actual response to the question!
notdeadyetiguess@reddit
Tetowaki has happened over and over throughout history. The world keeps spinning and humanity thrives through it. I'm not prepping for something that as a species we have already survived. As a species we seem to be the most adaptable to environment. We will be fine and that kind of thinking that we need to prep for the end of the world throws ya into the crazy conspiracy pile in my books. The end of the world AS WE KNOW IT will happen again and again and again. You can't prepare for something like that because you don't have a crystal ball to see into the future. You don't know if it'll be caused by disease, WMD, famine, asteroids, etc. You can't prep for everything that COULD happen. Just be human and adapt like everyone else is the most realistic thing you could be expected to do. Those who don't adapt don't get to send the next generation on.. simple as that.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Never said it was gonna happen. Never said how to prep. I'm asking the people that have already stated that IF it does happen THEN they have no intention of sticking around what is their exit plan. If that's not you then... cool.
Spectres_N7@reddit
Because people have been saying The World is Ending for Centuries upon Centuries. Prep if you Can if you Want, mostly prep for the immediate foreseeable future. AKA This is Hurricane Season for myself, so I prep for it. Some Hurricane prep lasts past the season for us. And I do prep nonperishable items not food related in the long run.
Haywire421@reddit
I'll say this: as somebody that has struggled with suicidal ideation for years and will likely have to deal with it again and throughout life, I have never been able to bring myself to actually pull the trigger despite how much I wanted to. I don't think there will be a global collapse in my lifetime, but if there is, the people saying they will just off themselves are in for a rude awakening if it ever does happen.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Sorry to hear about your struggles. Thanks for sharing your perspective.
samtresler@reddit
You really don't understand, I DONT WANT TONPLAY THIS GAME.
Getting pretty tired that it has been dominating the sub lately, but literally addressing a post to people who don't think this is a scenario that needs to be prepped for is a bit silly.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Thanks for missing the point. I'm not saying this is going to happen... or likely to happen. I'm asking these folks that don't want to stick around about their exit strategy.
samtresler@reddit
No. I got it.
I'm just sick of the topic.
Eredani@reddit
Love the downvotes for asking a serious question.
Is the sub just an echo chamber for preppers who don't prep? Or talk about unpleasant topics?
Less_Subtle_Approach@reddit
Exit bag is just as important a prep as a go bag. It's far more likely you'll catch a terminal diagnosis than the world abruptly ends and dementia or unending chemo treatments are crap ways to clock out.
No-Imagination-6981@reddit
My exit strategy is to stand under the bomb.
Virtual-Feature-9747@reddit (OP)
Yeah, I guess that works. Exactly when and where is this bomb hitting? What if we're late?
qbg@reddit
Covid suggests the intersection between TEOTWAWKI and "you still have to go to work tomorrow" is bigger than people thought. Things might be alien, but humanity is quite adaptable.
emp-cme@reddit
This is a good question and probably many with that mindset haven’t thought it through too far because they want to avoid they entire issue. And yes, many probably will change their minds and be burdens for prepared family members.
BronzeSpoon89@reddit
Im going to survive as long as possible and at the point where I no longer want to go on or see that it has become hopeless I will pop one in the head.
Anonymo123@reddit
same. Just like in The Road.. save the last ones for me.
LanguidVirago@reddit
If the world burns, I will watch from my sofa with a full belly and a cold beer, then tend my garden.
If there is a Great Reset ®, I will use my old school skills to teach others.
burningbun@reddit
Teotwawki standa for?
Traditional-Leader54@reddit
It’s a form of martial arts I think.
Neuroprancers@reddit
A R.E.M. album from 1987.
burningbun@reddit
thx don't be mad at my Nazism but "An R.E.M. album".
Neuroprancers@reddit
No, fuck nazis.
LordNix82ndTAG@reddit
The end of the world as we know it