I read most of it but don't have time to finish it now. So their spraying some sort of pesticide on the trees in Canada? And this is causing the usual issues we have with corn farmers where they get their brains cooked by all the chemicals required to grow corn.

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DadWatchesWrestling@reddit

Basically yes. And the doctor they talk about, being told not to investigate what's going on, and stop reporting the "disease" by his superior, and just being told that "it comes from higher up". Although this superior later said that as never the case.

He was also being followed to his interviews when trying to get the word out. Said he even had to "shush" patients in his office and check the hallway because someone was listening in on some of those patients' appointments. (I believe some info may have been leaked?, but don't quote me on that part).

For passenger vehicles, electricity makes a lot of sense as they fit in the sweet spot of size/weight/range requirements, where batteries don't need to be genuinely massive/km.

The technologies are always going to improve, but I don't think demanding that we move everything into one system for the environment makes sense. We don't need to sacrifice everything, we just need to stop being egregious with the abuse of what we do have.

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collie2024@reddit

‘Electricity doesn’t make sense for heating’

Somewhat of a broad statement. Heat pump is say 2-500% efficient. For a mild climate, it certainly makes sense.

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Walkop@reddit

Heat pumps are a little bit different. If your climate works ground source heating and cooling, then yes it definitely makes a lot of sense; I was more so referring to radiant heat or straight electricity to heat conversions.

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MagazineNo2198@reddit

Heat pumps run on electricity, not fairy farts...

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Walkop@reddit

I would consider most heat pumps a form of geothermal.

They are electric, of course. It was a part of a larger metaphor. If you want to pick at that one specific thing, be my guest...

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Did you even read my comment? 😂

First, from a technical standpoint a heat pump and an electrical heater are very different, one generates thermal energy and the other one moves it around. That was the point of that statement. I also clearly stated and I did acknowledge that it's effectively the same, but the difference is relevant for the original discussion point I brought up.

Second, high-efficiency natural gas heating is 95%-98% efficient, I'd say that plenty dang close to 100%. Obviously true 100% efficiency isn't attainable. Combustion is incredibly efficient at generating tons of thermal energy cheaply. That's the point.

You're still ignoring the entire point of the original comment and going off on a tangent of details that aren't relevant to the initial discussion.

The point was: different fuel or energy sources are going to have uses for a very long period of time, and switching everything to electricity simply doesn't make sense for every use case, because the world is far more complicated than that.

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SoreTaint@reddit

Efficiency is one thing, price is another. Natural gas in my area (PNW) is significantly cheaper to run that heat pump. When it gets too cold for the heat pump and the system switches on the resistive heating your savings and efficiency go out the window.

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MagazineNo2198@reddit

Natural gas is so damn cheap because it's a BYPRODUCT of oil production. We pump so much oil out of the ground, the natural gas is effectively free! Hell, a lot of places get so damn much of it, they just "flare" it (burn it off) instead of making the effort to contain and sell it off!

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collie2024@reddit

Afaik LPG is byproduct of petroleum production. I’m in Australia. We don’t have much oil but are one of top producers of CNG.

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collie2024@reddit

Hence why I said depending on climate. Although, modern units are less prone to freezing up. And, split systems at least, do not have any resistive element. They run in reverse to defrost outdoor unit.

Financial cost of the fuel is one thing. Environmental cost of methane is another.

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MagazineNo2198@reddit

Electricity ABSOLUTELY makes sense for heating (and cooling). Ever hear of heat pumps? One of the most energy efficient ways to heat and cool your home.

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lellololes@reddit

If costs included negative externalities, prices would look a lot different than they are. Pricing negative externalities in to costs (gradually, so it doesn't shock everything) will cause very sensible changes over time.

If someone driving around an F-350 diesel wants to do it, it's fine by me, but they are not paying for the long term environmental damage that that excess creates. Ditto a fancy exotic car. If gas tripled in price but you kept more of your income, you'd be making different decisions than you are now.

If the costs of ownership went up accordingly, fewer people would make the choice to drive them unless it was actually necessary - and it would also drive up the costs of legitimate uses (which we would rightfully all pay for).

My ideal pie in the sky solution is simply to tax carbon emissions, but have it be a net zero tax, e.g. give everyone an equal tax credit based on revenues from the carbon tax. It'd also You're rewarded if you generate less pollution, and pay more if you generate more. It couldn't be done at full strength overnight, it'd need to be phased in over something like a 10 year window. But the goal would be to get away from weird regulations that have unintended effects (like CAFE, causing more light trucks), and allowing the market to sort out efficiency on the basis of making people pay for not being efficient - but doing so in such a way that isn't horribly regressive.

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Walkop@reddit

I don't think diesel trucks are an excess, to be fair, when used for what they're meant for. Diesels don't actually pollute that badly when they're well maintained. A totally emissions-less diesel (save for SCR, which doesn't affect performance) is relatively clean.

A lot of emissions standards screw up a good thing. If governments and automakers were willing to work together to come up with good standards that are fair, clean the air, and give us better products, that would be amazing. Sadly that doesn't really work in the world we live in and we end up with half-baked solutions to meet unrealistic metrics (diesel standards are far stricter than gas, for example, and EPA regulations actually encourage larger trucks).

Well if we went nuclear and used modern energy production techniques to generate power Instead of bigger ICEs it'd be feasible.

It wouldn't work with our current infrastructure but assuming we also make advances in energy production and storage that problem would be moot.

But there will always at least be a hobby for hot rodding classic ICEs or hydrogen.

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earthman34@reddit

You can thank the "no nukes" movement for that. Goddamn those people were misguided.

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PJ796@reddit

You're speaking as if it's not just a matter of putting up more and potentially even higher voltage lines.

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earthman34@reddit

You're speaking as if the energy grid isn't on the verge of collapse in many areas already. Who's going to pay the hundreds of billions, if not trillions of dollars to string more wires, and where are they going to be strung? Over your house? Where is the generation capacity going to come from? How's it going to be powered? Where does all this lithium and copper come from for all these batteries? It's already been demonstrated that there isn't enough noble metal in the world to create fuel cells for all our energy needs, does it need to be demonstrated that there isn't enough lithium and copper as well? Because some data is pointing in that direction.

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PJ796@reddit

I'm sorry I forgot that the US doesn't invest in itself. I'm used to seeing that my country exports green energy

Where does the money to build anything ever come from? Someone at some point in time must have taken a piece of the military's budget to reinvest into the country's infrastructure.

Also high voltage lines A) if you increase the voltage don't need a lower resistance conductor to conduct a higher amount of energy, just better insulation B) you don't use copper for high voltage lines, you use aluminium which is far cheaper and more readily available.

Battery advancements are also being made. The next breakthrough is solid state lithium ion batteries, which will reduce the amount of batteries we need in a vehicle for the same mileage, and make them able to be charged faster.

There's also sodium ion batteries, as something we can produce more of than lithium batteries. They're about as good as lithium iron phosphate batteries in their current state, but again advancements will be made as it's still very new.

You can also get by with less power generation by smoothing out the energy requirements by making big battery banks to help when it's needed, like we're doing in my country, to help out when the windmills and solar panels aren't producing energy.

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earthman34@reddit

US military spending as a percentage of Federal revenue has been relatively flat for the last 10 years, and has declined sharply from previous decades, regardless of the actual dollar amount. US defense spending as a percentage of GDP has also declined and will continue to decline to a projected 2.3% in 2034. No offense, but I find it a little tone deaf when Europeans (or where ever you might be) poke criticism at the US for it's bloated military budget when you've in fact been relying pretty shamelessly on us to defend you for the last 70 years or so. The US is a federation of states, it doesn't have a national power grid or even a national energy policy, power is generated and distributed by utilities and private companies operating under the regulations of the states they are in. If a state like Florida, for example, chooses to not invest in solar power or even to outlaw it, there's nothing I in Minnesota can do about, so why would I care about it, since that grid has nothing to do with me? We've been investing heavily into wind power here, and shutting down coal plants, but those costs are ultimately paid by the customers of the utility, not the government, and utilities are generally legally constrained here in how much they can raise rates, or if they are allowed to at all. Here in Minnesota we're projected to be almost completely green by 2035 or so, but we have nothing to say about Texas or California or Florida, states that wield much more political power and economic influence.

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PJ796@reddit

US military spending as a percentage of Federal revenue has been relatively flat for the last 10 years, and has declined sharply from previous decades, regardless of the actual dollar amount.

It hasn't exactly been flat. After 2010 there was a decline, but its not like it hasn't been picking up since then.

And regardless of dollar amount? What should an already inflated budget keep up with inflation? You still spend much much more than the closest opposition.

No offense, but I find it a little tone deaf when Europeans (or where ever you might be) poke criticism at the US for it's bloated military budget when you've in fact been relying pretty shamelessly on us to defend you for the last 70 years or so.

Protection from who exactly? Russia? The country that's proven that it doesn't wield any other power other than nuclear weapons?

The Soviet Union also only aimed to keep up the iron curtain as its buffer zone to protect itself, so it's not like they'd have invaded western Europe especially not with all the nuclear weapons from e.g. France and the UK, given that their policy was not to retaliate against nuclear attacks.

Your wars have only resulted in the worsening of the situation of those involved, making people hate the US even more.

Just name one coup where the US didn't try to install a dictator whose only benefit was that they're friendly to your government instead.

The US doesn't even support its allies, and has changed leadership in Australia once they wanted to get rid of Pine Gap for example.

We've been investing heavily into wind power here, and shutting down coal plants, but those costs are ultimately paid by the customers of the utility, not the government, and utilities are generally legally constrained here in how much they can raise rates

Ever heard of energy subsidies? Development that raises the prices gets subsidised by the government paying the difference in subsidies, so you don't pay the full amount for something that benefits everyone.

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Justavian@reddit

"Never" is a long time. Battery tech is improving all the time, even when it doesn't seem like it on a day to day basis. In 2008, lithium batteries had a density of 55 watt hours per liter, and in 2020 they had 450 watt hours per liter.

I know everyone is tired of seeing headlines about some new magic battery that will give us 1000 mile range (or cheap, light weight 300 mile range). But the truth is that it takes a long time to get through the R&D and manufacturing challenges. Some are all hype, because it turns out they are not scalable or they are too expensive - but that's not going to be true of all of them.

I'm sure there will always be some combustion vehicles because it is a hobby. But by the end of the century, i would expect the vast majority to be battery electric.

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earthman34@reddit

Battery energy density is determined by how much energy you can store in a potential chemical reaction. Lithium polymer stores more energy per gram than nickel-cadmium, which stores more than lead-acid or earlier types. Lithium also costs more than ni-cad, which costs more than lead-acid types. There are potentially other types that store much more potential energy, but which have significant drawbacks, such as cost, operating temperature, potential danger, longevity, etc. Is there a potential technology on the horizon that offers more energy for less cost than lithium-based solutions? I'm not aware of any. It doesn't do a bit of good to have a battery that has 4 or 5 times the energy of a lithium battery if it costs 10 times as much to produce. It might be relevant in aerospace or military applications, but not in private use.

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ValBGood@reddit

Battery hasn’t changed substantially in over a hundred years. Yep, there have been advancements in manufacturing but the basic technology hasn’t progressed much.

The only true progress made in the technology is the development of flow cell batteries, especially the vanadium redox battery or the vanadium flow battery that are aimed at grid size storage solutions.

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Legitimate_Agency165@reddit

Lithium ion batteries were first a thing in the 70s. They were a substantial change in the technology and the only reason we consider portable electric devices a possibility today.

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TroyTony1973@reddit

Are you trying to say battery size to capacity hasn’t changed in 100 years? Seriously?

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Justavian@reddit

Ok, but the point the other guy was trying to make was about energy density (and presumably a point about an underlying resource shortage). We don't necessarily need a completely revolutionary new kind of battery. In the past 20 years, we've gotten a 10x density improvement. If there was another 10x density improvement - either via improvements to existing tech or something magical and new - then the potential for 90% or more electrification would not be a huge challenge. "Only" a 2 or 4 x improvement could completely change the entire transportation industry, even making large scale electrification of the air travel possible.

pm-me-racecars@reddit

I rent. Between my roommate and I, we average 4 cars. We also have no driveway space; the landlords live in the main house and they keep 3.5 cars in the driveway.

I'd feel confident switching 2 or 3 of our cars to electric if the house was up to it. If the house was up to it, the landlords could switch all their cars over if the house was up to it.

My parents' house usually has 4 cars and a trailer, and only room for 3 cars without the trailer. If their house was up to it, they could also switch all 4 cars to electric.

I don't know what your exact situation is, but I doubt that space is the issue. It wouldn't be super convenient, but probably not something that would need more than a little communication and getting used to.

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DadWatchesWrestling@reddit

An electric car can go like 300kms between charging. Charge a different one each night.

Some people commute hours to work every day, and who's to say everyone in the house works in the same direction from home? They said 3 cars, which could mean 3 different licensed drivers doing 3 different things every day, eventually some charging time needed is going to overlap, and someone's going to be left without a charge in their battery at some point

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northnorthhoho@reddit

That's it, we're all adults, and we each have our own car. I live in a small city that is at least an hour drive from the next city over.

I do at least 3 hours of driving per day, so if the car even makes it that far, it's going to need a charge every night. My roommates have similar usage on their vehicles.

We would essentially have to swap vehicles around in the middle of the night every night to ensure everyone gets charged.

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DadWatchesWrestling@reddit

Yeah see that would be a pain in the ass. I can see maybe being able to swing that with 2 chargers, but again, eventually charging needs are going to overlap, and even more so as the vehicles age and their range drops over the years. 3 would be the solution, but some cities grids are barely handling things as it is, there's no way they could support multiple chargers at every single house.

Ok-Swordfish8731@reddit

Unless the government decides to tax gasoline and diesel fuel into the 8 - $10 dollar a gallon range. They will claim the money will go towards clean air initiatives and the environmental nuts will yell yippee! I don’t see that happening for at least ten years though.

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reditor75@reddit

Yes, but the fuk government will make sure will be so expensive that you can’t enjoy/own it, the new communism served under “saving the planet”

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Medical-Mango-2452@reddit

People enjoyed horse racing before cars. We still have horses, horse racing, and horse racing tracks. I can’t imagine it any different with ICE cars. The average joe doesn’t care nor need ICE cars, they’re better off in a hybrid/electric

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Lubi3chill@reddit

Net necessarly. Here in eu we already have restrictions of cars older than 27 years not being able to drive in green zone in major cities. It’s very likely something like this will be on even wider scale and all combustion engines will be banned.

The median age of passenger cars on the road is increasing. In 2024, it's at 14 years. That means if the trends continue, half of the passenger cars on the road in 2038 are already on the road today. At the rate the media age has been increasing, that's likely to be 2039 or 2040. That's the trend line.

Even if every vehicle assembly plant magically started cranking out EVs tomorrow, and people bought them at the same rates they buy ICE vehicles today, about half the cars on the road in 2038 will still be ICE powered.

Every ICE vehicle sold adds more to the ICE side of the scale.

And that's a good thing because the power grid we have won't support even a 50% EV fleet. And there's little hope the power grid could keep up with that much of a sudden increase in demand from EVs.

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ColdCriticism58@reddit

"Your argument relies on linear extrapolation, but technology transitions follow an S-curve.

First, the '14-year average age' is a trailing indicator, not a future certainty. As EVs reach price parity (expected by 2025-2027), the resale value of ICE vehicles will collapse. Once the market realizes an ICE car is a 'stranded asset' with high maintenance and disappearing refueling infrastructure, the transition will accelerate exponentially, not linearly.

Second, the grid argument is a common fallacy. Utilities don't see EVs as a threat, but as a massive opportunity for demand response. With smart charging, EVs act as a distributed battery plant, soaking up excess renewable energy at night.

Illustrious-Bee3426@reddit

Hybrid makes a lot of sense in bridging the gap between mostly ice and mostly ev, which could be another 50 or even 100yrs or more from now. And not everyone is living or gonna be living where there's a robust charging network. So i can def see the attraction to hybrid in these places.

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6942493838@reddit

I’m pretty worried now thinking about it

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SupergamersXx@reddit

Man don’t worry, synthetic fuels will come. I honestly think that ICE will survive.

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MagazineNo2198@reddit

Worried? No. EXCITED for the demise of internal combustion? ABSOLUTELY!

Hear me out. Hobby and collector/enthusiast vehicles will still be out there...but "sport"? Doomed. You get FAR better performance from EVs than combustion engines. I think my Model Y has something like 385HP, the Plaid Model S has over 1200 (!) and can beat most "supercars" that cost MILLIONS of dollars more!

No emissions means no electric cars

Elelctric car fires are gonna happen at peoples homes or in crashes, and you cannot put out a lithium battery fire, it needs to burn out with or without submergence of water.

How much knowledge do the rulers of your countries have about the fact that you can’t drive without any form of emission.

If you wanna stop emission go walk naked.

Have you thought about shipping? The transport on sea or air is massive, is it smart to fly an electric airplane? Or drive electric boat?

How could they stop it? It will hurt their own way of living

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Short-Resident-8895@reddit

Yup. Absolutely hate electric cars. I do know it´s an emotional thing and not a valid point. But it´s just so soulless and feminine. Nothing wrong with bein feminine. But iM sAvInG tHe EnViRoNmEnT - even tho theres china, dumping their chemical waste into the ocean. Yeah. Sure. It won´t save our planet anyways.

Spare me with you "I sMeLl InCeLL" BS I don´t care. I´m autistic and cars are the only thing I really like about this absolute pile of shit of earth.

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joesamir20@reddit

Yes I am worried a little bit because all of the cars that I love will be electric even though I loved them because of their engines

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Horror_Ad2207@reddit

The internal combustion engine is where a vast majority of people learn engineering, which is then transferred to other engineering disciplines.

ICE is a hobby that will never ever die. It is not comparable to horses either. I'd estimate 50% of the US and Europe will use ICE over EV for hundreds of years.

Imagine how boring the car industry would be with 100% EV. No thanks.

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Lopsided_Property_86@reddit

The combustion engine is the best thing man ever created. I rent cars and just bought 262 more combustion engine vehicles.

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Lopsided_Property_86@reddit

This will never happen.

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Amarathe_@reddit

My ls swap 77 corvette is going to turn dino juice into noise and tire smoke for as long as theres still gas to be had. Ill buy it 5 galons at a time off amazon if i have to

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Horridone@reddit

Thank you for your comment. I’d like to point you towards fully automatic weapons. Still legal to own “technically”, but good luck finding one to purchase & getting the permit for it…without breaking the bank.

No you don’t. There was shit EVERYWHERE. Not to mention forget going anywhere more than a small number of miles away.

I don't worry about it happening in our lifetime, but I do think of the day where no living humans will have had the joy of experiencing an ICE vehicle.

GM was on record trying to push for high octane fuels and I believe had a partnership with Shell. It would reduce pollution and provide greater performance and better mpgs bc you're allowing the engine to do what engines do w.o all the bullshit suffocating a vehicle. All this emissions shit on vehicles largely are counter productive to the actual efficiency of a vehicle. Diesel trucks are the perfect example if you deep dive into the history of California and diesel. Diesels really are not that dirty but we've been brainwashed to think they are w.o even looking into them

There are algae and switch grass farms that can be used as a fuel source as well but those don't get media attention bc that's not what's sexy. You could even run a vehicle on ethanol and get similar results but the engine needs to be specifically designed to run on it. Not the current design where you really shouldn't use it often and no more than 50% of a fill up

https://www.wired.com/2002/08/fuelcellcars/

https://www.fastechus.com/blog/the-surprising-history-of-hydrogen-vehicles

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mrmet69999@reddit

Well, it’s probably inevitable, just like blacksmiths had to worry about horse, drawn, carriages, being replaced by cars, and film enthusiasts had to worry about digital imaging technology.

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PintLasher@reddit

Either we figure out something better or nature/climate/reality will get rid of all these things for us and despite us.

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Germany made synthetic fuel by cracking coal.

There are currently no commercial scale air to fuel plants on Earth. Though that will probably change very very soon, that fuel is going to be much more expensive than petroleum fuel.

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Sterrenkundig@reddit

There’s a difference between being able to do it and making it financially viable without using some other fossil source of energy. Germany just used a shit ton of coal, but when there’s a desire to do it in a climate-neutral way, it’s going to take a loooooot of electricity. It will be easier to directly use this electricity to power cars, instead of making ice cars which are also only 40% efficient at best.

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Miniteshi@reddit

It's going to be around for a lonnnnnnnng time. It's not going anywhere. If you look at Motorsport, anything EV related never gains enough traction (no pun intended). Formula E for example really didn't take off the way they wanted it to. Yeah as a concept it was exciting but that was about it.

00goop@reddit

I don’t think so but I can see a large move towards biofuels. People wouldn’t even have to get rid of their old cars to run biofuel, just get a tune. If the government wanted to mandate a movie towards electric/hybrid/biofuel ice’s they could even give away software for free.

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1nternetTr011@reddit

not in my lifetime at least. look at existing classic cars. many are 50-60 years old. so todays ICE will likely be around for a while.

-McSlizzy-@reddit

Not in my lifetime.

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EmptyMiddle4638@reddit

It’ll never happen.. we don’t have the infrastructure to have every American driving a Tesla let alone that combined with electric semi and dump trucks and everything else carrying 30-80k lbs that the world can’t function without.

ICE cars with self driving tech are the future, dont let anyone tell you different.

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NorCenKan1990@reddit

Not in the near future.

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ConsistentMove357@reddit

Don't think places like India will be full electric in the next two life times

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ScaryfatkidGT@reddit

I was last year

Plane-Refrigerator45@reddit

Not at all. Newer, better technology is always being developed. Older technology gradually becomes less relevant. It happens in every industry. It's normal.

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Various-Ducks@reddit

I'm not worried about it, no

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qwertypotato32@reddit

no unless you only drive Ferrari lambos Maybach rolls and bugattis

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grogudid911@reddit

What's to be worried about, exactly? Have you considered that some of the most economical EV's are faster than some of the fastest ICE cars.

We also weren't worried when carburators were on their way out. "Are you worried about the end of carb maintenance as a hobby?"

The answer is no, and always will be no. ICE cars are comparatively and enormous amount of maintenance. I'm just excited for them to start making drop in ev engines that charge quickly and run using the existing drive train of these cars.

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kenmohler@reddit

When you are 78 years old there are a lot of future things you don’t worry about.

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CaliDude75@reddit

What do you mean by “worried?” Current EV driver. I love the torque and seamless acceleration, but understand the nostalgia and appeal of “vroom-vroom” noises. Longer-term, it’s going to be hard for ICE to comply with emissions standards or CO2 targets.

Share false information much?

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scuba_steve77@reddit

I’m not terribly concerned but also that’s partly why I ls swapped my car they are still making this engine architecture by the millions so it will be a very long time before they are all gone.

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titsmuhgeee@reddit

Here's what people don't understand about gasoline: It doesn't stop being produced once ICE is gone.

When oil is refined, it's set to a distillation tower. On that tower, the distillates are split off at different heights. Oil comes in, but you get 10 different products out of the distillation tower. Kerosene, diesel/jet fuel, bunker oil, gasoline, asphalt, napthenes, and more including the base ingredient for plastic.

Gasoline is just one of these products. There is zero motivation to get the world off of other distillates besides gasoline. What will happen with EV vehicles is that there will be a reduction in demand for gasoline, but gasoline will be continued to be made at the same rate as before since it's now a waste byproduct of the distillation process. If there is not domestic demand for gasoline, it will be shipped to a foreign country where it will be burned in a much dirtier way. Usually this is in the form of small engines which pollute significantly more.

Anyone who thinks that someday we won't have gasoline is not educated on the topic. The only way ICE goes completely away is if the government bans it altogether. If the free market decides, it will always be around as long as oil is being refined.

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series_hybrid@reddit

There are still car clubs for steam engines that meet once in a while.

You may have to get an antique license, but gasoline cars will be around for a while.

I've seen quite a few vintàge classics converted to electric.

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doiwinaprize@reddit

If we figure out how to produce a decent biofuel we might never say goodbye

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Mysterious_Ad7461@reddit

Horses are still around.

The roads still will be too, so we’ll probably see mileage restrictions on ICE cars like we do with Antique or Classic plates but I doubt you’d see them completely outlawed. Worst case is it becomes more of a rich persons sport where you trailer it out or pay to store it at the track.

I’ve seen guys like Freiburger fret about losing gasoline as a purchasable commodity once the cars are mostly electric, but we’ll still have oil refineries, so we’ll still see a certain amount of gasoline as a byproduct of that process.

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Personally, I think there's never a one size fits all solution and we're better off using everything that we have, and using all of our resources for what they're best at.

Electricity doesn't make sense for heating, for example. It really really doesn't. Natural gas and burnable fuel does, because it's perfectly efficient and the energy density of batteries will never, ever, ever match the nearly 100% efficient conversion from fuel. Use our natural resources for heating in a sustainable way.

Fuels, especially diesel, also makes sense for heavy duty trucking and large machinery.

I think solar+wind with battery buffers may make a lot of sense for large boats. Hydrogen makes sense for planes and spacecraft, where volumetric efficiency isn't as important as mass.

For passenger vehicles, electricity makes a lot of sense as they fit in the sweet spot of size/weight/range requirements, where batteries don't need to be genuinely massive/km.

The technologies are always going to improve, but I don't think demanding that we move everything into one system for the environment makes sense. We don't need to sacrifice everything, we just need to stop being egregious with the abuse of what we do have.

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mrlavalamp2015@reddit

There is a dude two blocks over from me that has an og model t, it's over 100 years old. Takes leaded gas and everything.

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muscle_car_fan34@reddit

I don’t think gas cars will completely disappear but I am worried about the majority of them disappearing due to gas prices being too high.

The market will dictate the popularity of EVs. I’d never drive one because it’s not practical for me. I’m going to guess it’s the same story for at least half the country.

Likely the same reason for the lack of interest in high speed (or any speed) trains in the US. A loud minority wants them but they are simply not practical in the US.

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Either-Durian-9488@reddit

I think High Speed passenger rail is a great example of something that really only works if you are all in, IE you have a nationalized system and are pouring government into it. I also think the loud minority that like train travel in this country like the lack of security, myself included lol. And I don’t see a system with a ton of public money invested into it being like that for a long time.

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ggbvvgybbgt@reddit

I don't think you have an adequate understanding as to how the train system is run in the United States. It IS a nationalized system controlled by the government. Try reading the 1970 rail bill instead of jerking off this morning

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Dumb-ox73@reddit

My concern is political forces forcing ICE out of the market prematurely. They are already putting dates out there to prohibit the sale of ICE vehicles and force 100% electric vehicles. Electric technology has come a long way but it is not, nor do I believe it will be, capable of meeting the needs of the majority of drivers at the deadlines they are setting.

Turbulent-Pay1150@reddit

That part of it died already. How many manual transmission models exist still (enthusiast)? How many new cars have 1.0-1.6 liter power plants not really tunable for power - power left the conversation on most new cars. Yes we have more powerful cars now than ever in our past but we tuned the vehicles systems for 40mpg and just adequate power - then gutted the ability to tune the engines except by computer and reprogramming the cars systems. How many nanny systems - driving aids - are now not optional - from emergency braking through lane keep assist the software stack rules and intervenes frequently. Start/stop is no longer a turn it off permanently option - great for gas mileage and not good for the performance crowd.

Electrification has already changed the performance world - a real world sedan that can get you 0-60 in 2 seconds is readily available for less than 100k. Multiple sedans and SUVs with 0-60 times well under 6 seconds and easily under 4 seconds are common in electric vehicles. You want performance now days you want electric.

I'm extremely worried about it.

kwajagimp@reddit

Nope. I AM a little worried about the eventual availability of gasoline, though. That's the one we'll have to see about. Still, I'm probably not going to see that as a problem before I die.

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bozo_says_things@reddit

No? No one is coming to rip out the 1.6L petrol engine of my mx5 and swap it with a battery, petrol engines will go the way of the horses, they will still exist if you want to use them for your hobbies, but modern things will be electric.

Same sentiment for self driving cars

Radioaficionado_85@reddit

Yes and no.

Did people stop riding horses just because the car was invented? No
But what I'm worried about is younger generations not experiencing things first hand or experience them in the same way.
How many young people have ridden a horse?
How many have driven with a manual transmission?
How many have tuned a carburetor or set the timing?
It's the same for all sorts of technologies.
Back in the day, I had an 8 bit computer that I had to write my own programs. Then MS DOS came out and I had to organize file directories all text based. Now kids just death scroll on their smartphones.
When I got my first video game console, I had one game for a very long time. Then I got another and I had two video games. Not an entire app store of games I can download on the fly.
I remember using a rotary phone. Then touch tone. I would call my wife every day from a payphone at my job as a driver. Then those Nokia cell phones you had to type your text messages on a keypad.
I still use a film camera, but how many kids know what developing film is like and getting the pictures weeks after you took the photo? People didn't waste photos on their food back then.
In the future our children, grandchildren and so on, will not experience what we did, and not in the way we did. Internal combustion will be a hobby, however expensive or cheap. But it won't be the same as right now, and only a few people will enjoy doing it.
Sadly, we seem to be more and more focused on entertainment than learning how our world works and how we got to where we are now by learning history. Sometimes I see a future where everyone is constantly entertaining themselves on their electronic devices. It's kind of sad.

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caspernicium@reddit

You’re absolutely right. The world is becoming that of rampant consumerism instead of learning how to do things for yourself.

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savic1984@reddit

I agree. My kids will never experience the feeling of a rotary phone.

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outline8668@reddit

No because the newer ICE vehicles are so needlessly overcomplicated with electronics that I don't want them anyway.

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Jimmytootwo@reddit

Never happen...

There are still Ford model Ts puttering about, and we've gotten light-years better ICE tech than that.

You can go buy new production automotive engines that were first introduced 50+ years ago. Fully dressed ready to go.

The Honda 125 was introduced in '76, and is STILL in production in Pakistan, along with an untold number of Chinese clones.

I couldn't even begin to imagine how many Harbor Freight predator motors go tear up the trails and disrupt quiet suburbs every weekend.

The fuel formula will change, but internal combustion is here to stay for as long as long as there's a need to move people and things from one place to another. And as long as two guys have two machines they're gonna race them.

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EffectiveRelief9904@reddit

No. It won’t.

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dcgregoryaphone@reddit

Nah. There's always going to be things to mod and fix. Just might need a special safety suit so you don't get electrocuted.

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GasManMatt123@reddit

I think my position varies from most. I don't care about 0-100, straight line stuff, whatever. EVs can replace 80% of the car and light to medium duty market, owners won't really know or care. EVs will be "fast" in straight line applications, it'll be sufficient for those people. It's the unique shit in the middle for the car lover weirdos. Cars are too heavy now, EVs aren't lighter. I'm yet to drive an engaging EV or one with any level of personality - they all feel the same, they feel like an appliance and they just don't seem to capture what car people like about cars. EVs don't feel mechanical, they feel simple and as though you are interacting with a robot, not a piece of machinery. The best cars are not perfect, but EVs are all too clinical.

I'm not worried because I don't see ICE engines going away any time soon. Eventually they will one day in the very distant future but I'm not worried about the hobby and sport going away. I'm not into racing but it'll always be a thing and aftermarket customization will always be around.

The things I'll miss are the feel of driving. Like flooring it and hearing the engine go through the power band and then you clutch and shift and back on the accelerator. All the noises and feelings. A smooth NA motor or feeling turbo kick in or something doesn't matter, just all of it goes together as part of the package that makes driving experience.

Sure EVs are fast, but they lack the whole experience of driving in my opinion. If driven EVs and it always feels like they have no soul.

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Illustrious-Bee3426@reddit

No. There is going to be a market for ice for the foreseeable future. It might not include California or other states that go hard on EV, but there will be plenty of other places to buy an ice vehicle.