Winapps is great and I don't see people talking about it
Posted by greatbacon02@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 69 comments
Few years ago there was a project called winapps that made running windows apps. It seems to have been abandoned now and was kind of complicated to setup. A few days ago I came across a fork of the project which is actively maintained and is much easier to setup (it's still annoying to do but still quiet a bit easier).
It It runs on docker or podman container of windows which you can RDP to access the container. It runs a VM but it's automatically configured by docker and runs very well. Runs even better than linux distros on kvm. It also integrates with the desktop(at least on GNOME) and I can also acess /home folder.
I tried using it for office apps (word, powerpoint and excel) and it works very well. It officially supports adobe apps and a few more but I couldn't assign more than 4GB of RAM to the docker container so I haven't really tried it.
It's a really great project and I'm really surprised that there is no talk about it on reddit or on youtube.
If you want to set it up for yourself, the instructions are on the github link. Here are a few issues I ran into and how to solve them:
- On the installing windows step the host used it really really slow and it's much better to use an iso that you download yourself and use as such.
- While creating the configuration file change the value of RDP_USER to the windows username which is probably "Docker" and RDP_PASS to the password which is initially empty.
- To run the apps you need to start the container, go the localhost log out of windows otherwise the apps won't start. To solve this just create an extra windows user and disable auto-login.
P.S. I tried to upload it a few days ago but it didn't get moderator approval. It wasn't rejected either, maybe noboby looked at it. This is uploaded without any changes except the P.S.
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
The only Windows app I have any interest in running is AutoCAD, which requires more RAM and GPU access. A VM solution isn't a solution at all in my case.
Running a VM has a huge overhead compared to a solution like Wine or just finding a native alternative, which is probably why this project hasn't received much attention. It seems like a great project, but IMO it'll stay pretty niche for these reasons.
Moon-3-Point-14@reddit
You just need another 4 GB RAM, and if you need GPU access, AutoCAD does work on Proton, as shown in [this video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UyoN9fDCjRM). WinApps does a lot more by allowing whatever does not work on Wine to run. Having at least 4 GB RAM more than what you normally need is advisable, so those who have it should find this trade off okay.
Mr-Anthony-@reddit
Windows to go is not proton
crafter2k@reddit
prrtty sure that kvm has near native performance tho
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
It does, if the software's requirements are met by the virtual hardware. The problems are the overhead of running two OSes in tandem, having to preallocate CPU cores and RAM to the VM, and GPU acceleration.
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
It shouldn't be a problem for me since I have dual Xeon processors with 24 cores and 200 GB RAM. LOL!
Daethas@reddit
what was even the point of saying this ??
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
Because people were talking about the overhead of keeping a VM running in the background. I merely pointed out that not everyone has that problem. Why some people are questioning this comment goes to show how rude some people can be for no reason at all. Gosh, I wonder why some people feel like the Linux community is full of a bunch of assholes.
Daethas@reddit
because people dont like you randomly bragging abt ur pc specs? u dont think THATS kind of rude at all?
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
For god's sake, are you f-cking serious? I told you already that several posters pointed out that the overhead of running a VM in the background may be too much of a draw on their system resources. I pointed out that not everyone would have that problem if they ran it on a beefy workstation. The fact that you think that's bragging or rude is just weird.
Remzi1993@reddit
Bro, do some self reflect. Not everyone has that kind of money. 1 billion people on this planet not even have internet or a PC.
Daethas@reddit
"there's a lot of overhead with vms that can cause performance issues on your system"
"well, it's a good thing i have an egregiously expensive pc that doesn't have to deal with that, lol! you wouldn't have issues with performance in a vm if you just spent as much money as i did on a pc lol!"
i cant teach u self awareness but i do hope u find it because it would probably help in making u realize how self-centered this is
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
Grow up and get over yourself. I've been building PCs and using Linux since before you were born. Piss off!
tax_is_slavery@reddit
I have no idea why people got so offended by your comment. I mean, it's relevant to the statement above, so good for you.
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
Wow. You are so funny. Ha. Ha. I am laughing so hard. Ow. Ouch. My side is hurting from all this laughing that I am doing.
Linux4ever_Leo@reddit
Stop being a sarcastic b-tch.
Obnomus@reddit
So did you find any way to run on autocad on linux or any alternative?
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
Nope. There are open-source alternatives which do not meet my requirements as a mechanical engineer but which may meet simpler demands. I have to boot into Windows to use AutoCAD there.
Ziferius@reddit
About 4 years ago -- I setup kvm/qEMU to boot up my windows partition so I didn't have to boot. I passed thru my GPU so I could play a steam game. Stability wasn't the greatest and I must have tinkered with it for a month in my spare time to get it working.
There were times where qemu hardlocked. I had to power-off the system completely because the nvidia drivers/video card hard-locked. After about 6 months; this hardlock scenario started becoming a two or three times a week.
It ended up being quicker to dual-boot in the end.
When it worked; it WAS near native performance. I was playing Space Engineers. I was using Fedora to do this. Stability wasn't there though.
duartec3000@reddit
More than 10 years ago I had a flat-mate that finished her final college project for architecture degree in Autocad running in a Parallels VM on a regular iMac. (Inter dual-core, 4 threads)
It's really hard to believe that 10 years later you can't find a combination of Autocad version and Virtual technology that doesn't work for you. Even VirtualBox comes with 3D acceleration now.
Virtual environments don't have a huge overhead this is a lie, as long as you have enough memory and can assign some cores to it it's good to go.
DazedWithCoffee@reddit
Passing through a GPU typically requires a dedicated GPU for pass through, does it not? That’s a nonstarter for many situations
Michaeli_Starky@reddit
3D acceleration in VMs without a proper GPU passthrough is useless.
necrophcodr@reddit
I wouldn't generally call it useless, but for modern CAD work? absolutely agree.
zakazak@reddit
I thought wine was also basically emulating a Windows OS guest? Does it really use less overhead than a Windows VM? To be fair, that Windows VM is booted in 2 seconds and get 4 our if my 16 CPUs and 8GB RAM. Ressource wise that doesn't bother me. But having to run it on my laptop on battery mode in a 3 hour meeting sucks.
daemonpenguin@reddit
WINE doesn't emulate Windows and it isn't a VM. It is a compatibility layer. It has a much much smaller footprint than a VM.
necrophcodr@reddit
A VM shouldn't have too much overhead on its own, but the guest OS indeed might. Passthrough of a GPU should help some of the troubles on that side, although it appears to currently not be documented in this project.
mattias_jcb@reddit
It sounds like you've had bad experiences with virtualization software. If it works like expected the overhead shouldn't be that bad.
NoRecognition84@reddit
If you could add more memory to your machine and setup a VM with GPU passthru (possibly with an extra GPU added for the passthru) you should be able to do it. Perhaps not the "best" solution, but still a solution.
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
True, but I'm saying precisely that it isn't the best solution, not that it isn't a solution at all.
It's much cheaper to buy a second SSD and dual-boot than it is to buy a second GPU for pass-through, never mind the extra RAM and possibly a better CPU too.
NoRecognition84@reddit
The exact words you used were "A VM solution isn't a solution at all in my case". Precisely the opposite of what you just said. lol
Peruvian_Skies@reddit
See those last few words? "In my case"? They're kind of important.
robertpro01@reddit
So basically I can just have my VM with GPU pass-thought and also install winapps for my non-game apps?
williamdorogaming@reddit
what games do you use a vm for im just curious
robertpro01@reddit
Basically all I play lol, street fighter, mortal kombat, ace combat, shadow of war
williamdorogaming@reddit
Do you own these games on steam? if so you can just use proton and they should work fine, most have gold ratings on protondb,check it out
robertpro01@reddit
Yes, I also just play them on the steam deck, but I prefer having them running on a separate VM, so my family can stream the games while I'm working
S1rTerra@reddit
Do you have 2 GPUs or do you use an iGPU for work and your dGPU passed through to the VM?
robertpro01@reddit
My current build is:
Unraid server with 1 gaming VM with 1 GPU, and AI inference running on docker with 1 GPU.
I don't have an iGPU on this processor, steaming with moonlight, and I'm working with a thin laptop
williamdorogaming@reddit
ahh makes sense that’s smart, good on you looking out for your family
Bitter_Dog_3609@reddit
Why Winamp when you have Audacious?
Ziferius@reddit
I did a double-take at first, thinking this was about 'Winamp'. It really whips the llama's ass!
Mustafa_Shazlie@reddit
I am thinking of switching to Linux because i am tried of shitty companies like Microsoft. Unfortunately, MS Office is a major thing for me i can't do without it - though i still have to deal with microsoft - and i want to use them in Linux. I stumbled upon WinApps (which sounds amazing) but i have seen people saying that its RAM usage is significant. So i tried to look up some benchmarks but i couldn't. Is there any idea about how impactful its RAM usage is? Is it worth it?
nhermosilla14@reddit
I use it for Office, it's awesome. The only downside is the overhead of running two OS's at once, but with enough ram available, I have no issues.
n0ename@reddit
by "enough ram" how much do you mean? is 16GB enough?
nhermosilla14@reddit
It depends on your usage. I run a lot of VMs and containers, less than 32 GB is too little to me for local usage. But in my laptop I usually run everything remotely, either over SSH, VNC or RDP, so I do just fine with 16 GB (even with the VM running Windows and Word open with 2 documents).
n0ename@reddit
seriously considering moving fully to linux because of this project but my main concern would be performance since winapps uses virtualization. I use a laptop with 16 GB of ram with integrated AMD Ryzen 7 5800H with Radeon Graphics. I was wondering would my laptop be strong enough, say me running a browser from linux and one or two winapps instances at the same time?
greatbacon02@reddit (OP)
should be fine if you only run word, excel or even photoshop for the matter. i haven't tried any other apps so can't really say for sure. there's so reason for it to not work though given it runs on windows only you'll have worse performance
Corporatizm@reddit
It's one of those projects linux needs to succeed at conquering the desktop market, in the short term. Thanks for highlighting it.
Separate_Paper_1412@reddit
Because it imposes a performance penalty since it uses virtualization. It also requires a windows license.... Legally
CrisisNot@reddit
How well does it work with Wayland? Does it run in Xwayland?
CrisisNot@reddit
Nevermind it's not supported just yet, see https://github.com/winapps-org/winapps/discussions/19
greatbacon02@reddit (OP)
Nope, it works on wayland. All my testing was in wayland.
CrisisNot@reddit
Plasma?
greatbacon02@reddit (OP)
Gnome
ilsubyeega@reddit
thanks for your experience. i always wanted like unity mode at wayland. Are there any problems with winapps while on wayland? also, is it available with wayland only? (not xwayland)
CrisisNot@reddit
Oh that’s good to know, it still runs I. X Wayland since the FreeRDP client doesn’t support Wayland yet.
Cleytinmiojo@reddit
I think the project will take off when it becomes more user friendly and get a GUI. It seems super promising!
Square-Reserve-4736@reddit
You can even run adobe software with it. So idk why people say Adobe won't work on Linux.
mitchrob1234@reddit
How does the fork compare to https://github.com/casualsnek/cassowary ?
BobYourUncle824@reddit
When a VM is needed I would suggest Quickemu.
AntaBatata@reddit
Looks really good. I'll check it out. Thanks!
zam0th@reddit
What it actually does is running Windows on KVM in a container, which makes absolutely no bloody sense.
Of course it does, you're using Windows to run Windows software.
abotelho-cbn@reddit
Sure it does. The userspace components are in the container and make calls down to the kernel to perform KVM operations. Like KubeVirt.
mattias_jcb@reddit
What makes you say—with such emphasis—that it makes no sense to run the virtualization software in a container?
Catenane@reddit
The project looks great for the documentation alone lol. I have one work application where I specifically need to build installers for windows and am soon going to be looking into automation pipelines. I wasn't even aware you could run windows docker containers with kvm. Thanks for the share!
NoRecognition84@reddit
I've commented about this project a couple times recently. The readme says it can use podman, docker or libvirt - so you should be able to setup a VM with more memory than 4GB (at least with libvirt, no idea about docker or podman). Gonna try setting that up later on today.
greatbacon02@reddit (OP)
I did get it working later on and successfully ran photoshop and it felt pretty smooth to me. Didn't try rendering any images but didn't really feel like it was running on a VM.
NoRecognition84@reddit
Assuming the VM/container is using KVM as the hypervisor there should not be much of a difference CPU wise for running Photoshop there. Might be some for memory or GPU depending on your config/setup.
duartec3000@reddit
I used WinApps for Office too and it is great. I think you didn't put enough emphasis on the main feature of WinApps: It's seamless! Once everything is configured Windows apps get their own .Desktop file and open just like if they were native apps and can open and save files from the host file structure. We don't ever need to see Windows ugly face.