Ukraine does not intend to pay its debts, because they have no means to pay those debts.
Whoever was giving them money knew that they weren't getting it back, instead, through arbitration, the value is going to be recovered in the form of businesses, land and resources; sold at a fraction of their real value.
That's how the grift works.
I'm actually surprised they have to start paying anything back before the end of the war though.
I mean they're in the middle of a very serious conflict, surely it's not a great moment to ask for your money back.
"Yo I see that your house is on fire, can I have my hundred bucks back? Yo if you are not planning to pay me back I can take the grill right?"
The very first thing that dies as soon as big money gets involved is ethics. Does anyone really think any of the "help" that Ukraine received had altruistic or justice related roots?
Ukraine is pawning off their everything right now in order to fund their fighting to protect the very thing they are pawning off.
Most of the debts being called in at the moment is pre 2022. Practically everything after is issued as gifts or bonds. But yeah you are right creditors and corruption have cost them a lot.
Thankfully the corruption part has gotten better.
Not saying it wont be the same as the UK after WW2 but like us they will pay it back later. I know no European that thinks we shouldn’t fund them. And we should be giving them every penny of frozen Ruzzian cash we have.
>Thankfully the corruption part has gotten better.
In what world did it get better? It has only been getting worse and worse. Have you been to Ukraine? You can literally pay money to avoid conscription. It costs 500USD per month per person.
Ukraine very much is heavily corrupt and is only getting more so with time
>but like us they will pay it back later
It is clear you have not listened to Zelensky before to quote Zelensky himself
"In Ukraine, we have a new level of economic development. This level is called begging. The idea is simply. We beg for money from the rich neighbouring countries and then we don't give anything back. We borrowed this idea from the Gypsies"
Actually I have been Ukraine admittedly before 2022 but after 2014. I saw the population care a damn lot about civic health, I saw their old soviet style police and the new style who look better equipped than most the UK bobbies.
As soon as I can go back I will, I want to see my friends and the wonderful people I spent time with again. I want to walk down the main street and hopefully buy a coffee from the lady I got one from before (there is cctv footage of her running from her stall for a bomb shelter)
Admittedly both my friends and the country Ukraine will never regain part of that joy and happiness, puttler has launched a missile at it and left it slightly damaged. But they are not going to give up this fight I can tell you. They want their kids to know the Ukraine they grew up in independent.
I have looked for the quote and found nothing, not even a portion of it, please provide the evidence. Otherwise you are blowing smoke out your ass.
Also do you understand what the donations and bonds are? WE AREA JUST GIVING THEM MONEY! I say we should be giving them more but hey gotta leave some of that 250billion as a reward for Puttlers head.
> I saw their old soviet style police and the new style who look better equipped
Depends on where you lived I guess. In Kiev it was fine but in places like Poltava the healthcare system basically just collapsed after 2014. Doctors would often give you medicine that would make you worse just because they got given extra money to prescribe it
> They want their kids to know the Ukraine they grew up in independent.
Funnily enough many of the Ukrainians I know support Russia for that same reason. Some even joined the Russian army in order to "free their homeland"
> I have looked for the quote and found nothing
[Here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCpeU6_2gAw&list=FLEIAa3zq-TS4T4Jz2Pz4NZg) it is. It is from his criticism of Poroshenko and as I have seen never got translated.
You have to give to to Zelensky for his comedy there are a lot of great quotes in there. Another good example from there
> Ukraine represents an actress from German adult films. That is it is ready to accept any amount from anyone for money.
.
> WE AREA JUST GIVING THEM MONEY!
Again to quote Zelensky
"You are probably interested in the question of where will your money go?
I think this is not an ethical question. Nobody asks where will the cat we feed will go. No, the joy of giving is the important result"
Oh wow there you go haha snorting that smoke aye. 🤣
Out east after 2014 one friend’s sister was (hopefully still is) a nurse. She was sending him messages about “separatists” takeing potshots at her hospital with AK’s and 40mm grenades.
A friend of a friend ended up on the DPR side believed all the bluster but then after 2022 he realised he was nothing but a pawn in Putlers plan so he thankfully escaped east.
The freedom Putler offers is nothing but thinly veiled slavery be my vassals and I will shower you (elites) with wealth so you can maintain my peace ala Chechnya. How quickly that all starts to unravel when things get uncomfortable for them.
I have also been to Russia again post 2014 pre 2022 I have Russian friends and their opinion is that they have been robbed of their home as well. They grew up in the 90/00 and saw the fall of the ussr and the hope of the pre Putler times but have seen that strangled by that we cunt.
I do hope I can go see them again in the future but we shall see…
Not saying Ukraine is a paradise just they are trying their damnedest and they are making things better. Despite the European unions necessity for low corruption before joining Putin‘s actions have only meant that Ukraine will more than likely be able to join while there is still a lot of corruption in the country. That corruption will end in the extremities last its not some chain you can just break its a mindset and culture shift. Also joining NATO but they have proven better than some other NATO forces so far IMO. Most if the systemic BS of the former USSR (higher ups not so much the people) came from the occupation by Russia after the soviets took over. That happened allover the joint and the same arguments have been made about Latvia, Slovakia, Romania, et cetera et cetera.
Will get a friend to translate it so I can put it in the comments.
That video is 2 years before he even entered the political sphere and 3 before becoming president. A standup comic is going to use language that is far more colourful than anyone else especially when it is part of their theme. There is a clip from his show about being president where he guns down the entire government. He said and air that because it’s what people are thinking but generally don’t say.
Just like The Thick of It. Not saying there isn’t truth to Ukraine wanting money but as he said yes I would give a hungry cat food.
Just like sending money to people out east so they can escape the war or at least be more comfortable it’s the very least I can do from my privileged position.
Ok and what? I know people too inside Ukraine and Russia. My family in Crimea have joined the Russian military to "liberate their homeland"
Of those I know in Ukraine a vast majority do not care who wins the war. Russia or Ukraine it makes no difference to them. Then the second biggest group is those that support Russia. And I know of a single person who supports Ukraine and she is of course from Lviv. The only people I know in support of the current Ukrainian government. are from the west of the country. I havent met anyone from the other regions in support of it. Not to say that they dont exist. Just I didnt met anyone from these areas.
My partners father is the interesting one for me. He was born in the USSR and went to meeting on Ukrainian independence. He would in his words "walk around Kiev taking down Soviet flags" After Ukraine left the USSR he would always stand with hand on heart for the Ukrainian anthem.
Ever since 2014 he has been ashamed to be Ukrainian, said that Maidan destroyed his country and since the war started has actively tried to get rid of his passport. Actually the events of the Ukrainian governemnt since 2014 have turned him to actually wish the USSR was back interestingly enough
Ukraine is a greatly divided country. There are many in support of Russia and many against it. To speak as if one opinion covers the entire country is just to actively lie or be ignorant of the situation
> They grew up in the 90/00 and saw the fall of the ussr
So they didnt see the fall of the USSR? The USSR collapsed in 91.
> just they are trying their damnedest
Trying to make things worse I guess and doing pretty well at it.
> Also joining NATO
The NATO that they themselves said Ukraine will not be joining "anytime soon"?
> came from the occupation by Russia after the soviets took over
What are you on about? Ukraine had its own Communist revolution. I should know because I have photos of relatives taking part in it. Ukrainian Communists captured Kiev without any intervention from Russia.
After creating their own independent Soviet state they joined with Russia to create the USSR. A fun fact is that the leader of the Ukrainian SSR was against Lenin because they think he was too soft in his ideas.
So no Ukraine was never "invaded by Russia after the Soviets took over" and it doesnt even make sense. Especially so considering land like in Donbass was given to Ukraine from the Russian SFSR. Are you saying Russia occupied Ukraine by giving Ukraine land?
> Will get a friend to translate it
You speak so confidently for someone who doesnt know the language. So you are admitting you only speak with people who know English? Ones that will have a very specific view on the world and support the west.
I am not saying it is a bad thing. But you will only get a very specific subset of people if you dont know the local languages. The most strong supporters of Russia generally dont know English. So of course you will never meet them if you only know English.
You will also miss out on a lot of stuff that never got translated because it is politically inconvenient.
> That video is 2 years before he even entered the political sphere
Which is why he is talking openly about the situation? Rather than trying to hide it to appear better
But I have a feeling that you didnt pay attention to any of Zelenskys presidential bid then. He spent 90% of his time saying how bad Ukraine was and blaming it on Poroshenko. There is a lot of interesting stuff there like how he says that those in Donetsk should just be allowed to live and not have Ukrainian forced on them
His campaign focused around negotiations with Russia to end the war, following the Minsk protocal and ending corruption. All of which he later went back on.
> as he said yes I would give a hungry cat food.
He said that you shouldnt think about where the money goes because it dissapears. The only good that comes from giving money to Ukraine is you feel happy about doing it. But what happens next with it is not something you should look into because most of it is just stolen.
> Just like sending money to people out east so they can escape the war or at least be more comfortable it’s the very least I can do from my privileged position.
I agree with you and I have done a lot of the same. I just wonder if your position extends to those Ukrainians who are within Russia. I see a bad habit of many people to send money to Ukraine, but as soon as they fall under Russian territory are just abandoned by the people who supposedly care for them
Yo sorry lost the message.
So first off forgive my simplification and paraphrasing. I think I’m able to justify that because you have a jack as your flag which more often than not means people don’t have the same experience.
It’s clear we just know different people despite being from the same area of Ukraine. Thats totally fine and people can want whatever, so long as you do it without guns and bombs.
And again the history of Ukraine is very very complex and all shades rather than red white black. I personally am very interested in the anarchist state setup and the story between them and the soviets. Who a few higher ups sought to help the anarchists but ultimately it was the hardliners then after the more Leninists that prevailed. In my opinion the Russian revolution ended with the death of the Russian navy.
Funnily enough that that capital was in modern day Russia.
That all said I don’t agree with fighting we really need to learn to avoid that but people that fear and covet are very prone to it.
We can go over the past longer than either of us be alive so I will simply end with Ruzzias actions are wrong and counter productive to what ever future Ukraine wants. If political will is persistent and in the majority then its for the ballot box and same for succession referendum. And you cant do that while you have tanks on the streets.
Get Ruzzians out of there and once everything is settled (yes that will take time) then have a referendum. A very idealistic dream but the Ukrainians are not stopping and are doing honest work.
Raise the lens a bit.
When you raise the lens and cross reference the timing, Brexit (of which Steve Bannon,Nigel Farage and Robert Mercers/Mega group/Cambridge Analytica that put trump in office, were all critical contributors), was intentional and necessary for Russia to keep Ukraine out of the EU and NATO.
https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/I17U4FSnwV
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/were-there-any-links-between-cambridge-analytica-russia-and-brexit/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Conservative/s/LQrK6BwGLd
Putin knew that the mandatory de-corruption audit process would expose both his money laundering and the human trafficking operations of the Russian mob through Ukraines oligarch class (Kolomoiksiy, Dubinsky, Firtash, etc) as well the chronic election interference via Paul Manafort, Orban, Kolomoiskiy etc, and the kompromised members of both UK and EU political circles.
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/08/06/doj-ukrainian-oligarch-392405
To the chronic kleptocrat Putin this was the one thing that would show Russians and all the people in the other former soviet satellite states how he had been systemically manipulating and stealing from them via corruption for 2 decades which would lead to either an upset within his mob pyramid as an eager lieutenant decided he was ready to challenge the weakened old king for the throne (which Prigozohn did in June 2023 and had his plane shot down for it), or the people would revolt and kill him like Gaddafi, which he has admitted is his biggest fear.
https://bbcrussian.substack.com/p/wagner-inheritance-what-has-happened
The reason Epstein targeted Prince Andrew is because he was the softest most vulnerable part in the royal families flank. Same with Trump and RFK Jr.
Epstein was feeding that Kompromat/intel back to Israel/mega group who was in turn feeding it to Russian intelligence via the old world Russian Jewish families (Chabad network) that carry both Russian and Israeli passports but are self evidently more loyal to money than God.
https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/04/the-happy-go-lucky-jewish-group-that-connects-trump-and-putin-215007/
Steve Bannon and Nigel Farage both dovetail in with Brexit as a Russian mob/gov intelligence op because SCL/Cambridge analytica was hedge fund owner Robert Mercers(mega group) baby when they decided to run trump as their “disruptor” candidate instead of Ted Cruz in 2016.
https://veteran stoday.com/2021/12/30/mega-group-maxwells-and-mossad-the-spy-story-at-the-heart-of-the-jeffrey-epstein-scandal/
https://campaignlegal.org/update/newly-published-cambridge-analytica-documents-show-unlawful-support-trump-2016
Long before that Facebook was intentionally designed as a delivery device for Russian/Israeli Psyops and malware. SCL/Cambridge Analytica, Brexit, Palestine, Ukraine, NSO and a handful of other ethically bankrupt dealings are all downstream of Sheryl Sandbergs ad based business model both at Facebook and google (Brin) before that.
The Russian investment in both was asymmetrically large (Dmitriev and Milner) which makes sense looking back at it now.
https://cyberscoop.com/facebook-nso-group-lawsuit-onavo/
Zuckerberg even talked about buying the associated press as he hoovered up Instagram, WhatsApp and Onavo in Israel.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/technology/mark-zuckerberg-explored-acquiring-the-associated-press/ar-BB1m2JJT
The need to control the press both in print and online was a requirement of the chronic financial frauds which are basically the evolution of grift starting all the way back at Enron, Bear Sterns (Epstein was quietly fired for money laundering) Epsteins towers financial, 9/11, Lehman bros,etc and on and on up to 2008.
MBS as the other major shot caller in OPEC took the alternate route backing musks acquisition of Twitter and the evening standard among others.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Twitter/s/7MOIwgC4E1
https://inews.co.uk/news/media/lebedev-saudi-investor-evening-standard-cut-3085226
They are all basically a parasitic blood squeeze to drain all the value possible out of the U.S. and E.U. working class. Enough to maximize the gain but not quite enough to kill the host.
Les Wexner, Miriam and Sheldon Adelson, Sandberg, and Zuckerberg all carried water in conducting the NSO/Pegasus spyware operation INCONUS that was feeding intelligence to both the israeli and by extension, Russian intelligence. In parallel Epstein was running Kompromat operations in the same circles. There is far more crossover between the Israeli mob/ government and Russian mob/government than shows at the surface.
https://ia601601.us.archive.org/27/items/eir_20230323/EIR.pdf

https://www.forbes.com/sites/jemimamcevoy/2024/04/10/les-wexners-second-life-how-the-epstein-tarnished-billionaire-is-quietly-reshaping-ohio/
https://www.spytalk.co/p/nsos-spyware-abuse-exposed-years?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
https://awards.journalists.org/entries/the-pegasus-project-a-global-investigation/
•Abagail Koppel was sent by the Israeli state to marry Les Wexner
•wexner signed power of attorney for his ENTIRE fortune over to Epstein.
•additionally YLK fund (Abagails father) made up $46.7M of Epsteins money
•Les claimed it was stolen from him but not until after someone asked about Epstein.
•Wexner was notoriously litigious but wouldn’t sue Epstein. Why?
•PROMIS spyware was Ghislaines father Robert Maxwells deal long before his daughter and Epstein started their pedophile thing.
https://cryptome.org/promis-mossad.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Epstein/s/80htF6ISEZ
https://www.newspapers.com/article/st-louis-post-dispatch-donald-trump-and/9383143/
Tchenguiz+Cambridge analytica+Brexit+2008 collapse
https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/david-burnside-putin-russia-dup-brexit-donaldson-vincent-tchenguiz/
We expose corruption and we end both of these genocides. We finish this war in Ukraine and we end corruption, human trafficking, major financial fraud, and likely most of the international money laundering and systemic fraud in the world.
The other alternative is waiting for the looming commercial real estate collapse that they engineered to be the Version 2.0 commercial strength edition of 2008 crossbred with soviet perestroika where the Russian oligarchs and CCP effectively foreclose on all the REITS that blackrock and blackstone have been selling to the CCP and foreclose and buy america for 4 cents on the dollar.
Whomever owns your mortgage effectively owns your home.
Steven Schwartzman and Larry Fink set us up for handoff to the CCP and Russians
https://youtu.be/ZlIagcttGY0?si=EkbGnoAsDVqJ3sjT
https://prosperousamerica.org/cpa-report-details-how-blackrock-and-msci-funnel-billions-of-u-s-investor-capital-to-ccp-and-pla-linked-companies/
https://www.cpomagazine.com/data-protection/leaked-documents-from-facebook-indicate-engineers-have-lost-control-of-user-data-cant-keep-up-with-international-privacy-regulations/
s&p put them into "selective default" a few weeks ago after they defaulted, the lowest rating they can give.
I don't think people really understand just how bad the ukraine economy is doing and being held up by the west atm.
I mean, their economy was never really pretty but it's certainly starting to look like they are on the trajectory of the 90's again but the opposite with the military funding.
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