Canonical's Shifts to Up-to-Date Linux Kernels in Ubuntu
Posted by CrankyBear@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 130 comments
Posted by CrankyBear@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 130 comments
MarcBeard@reddit
Kernel maintainers have been saying for years that lts builds suck and are bug prone due to the backporting of fixes. And yet non rolling distros seem to like them more weirdly.
Especially weird since linux has a policy of not breaking userspace.
TopCheddar27@reddit
I don't think Ubuntu LTS uses LTS kernels anymore no?
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
It's not that weird. Non-rolling distros basically do the same thing to userspace. Naively, you'd assume that since a bad kernel has the potential to break everything, you'd want to limit when you upgrade it, and then apply backported security patches, just like you do to any userspace component.
It's not a bad idea. It'll be interesting to see how that works out.
Remarkable-NPC@reddit
i went somewhere in the middle, but not manjaro
xyphon0010@reddit
Now if Canonical can ease off using snaps for everything that would be great.
redditissahasbaraop@reddit
As a non-fanboy, there's nothing wrong with snaps. I don't understand the circlejerk around it. It gives LTS users like me the latest version of an application, sandboxed. It's perfect, and not any different to an installed app.
debian_fanatic@reddit
Snaps will be the death of Ubuntu once Pop!_OS COSMIC releases. Mark my words...
Helmic@reddit
pop!_OS is downstream of ubuntu, mate, if it dies that takes out pop!_os with it along with a lot of other distributions, including (at the moment, anyways) mint.
debian_fanatic@reddit
It doesn't have to be.
chic_luke@reddit
Just like Flatpak on Debian, except it doesn't suffer from the same overhead as Snap, and it has working sandboxing on more than one distro. So, what's the argument against Flatpak here? The bar to beat are not repo packages, the bar is Flatpaks
ABotelho23@reddit
It's specifically Snaps that are the problem, not the problems they solve. People don't usually complain about Flatpaks in the same way.
MardiFoufs@reddit
What does that mean concretely? Like I get the part about the store being proprietary (even though it's possible to create a custom OSS backend, but none is provided by Canonical). But technically speaking, snaps provide even better isolation and sandboxing, and work in CLI apps. I don't see how flatpaks are technically superior, most of the issues with snaps also apply to flatpaks.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
A rough summary is: Unless you work for Canonical, Snap doesn't really have much going for it over not just Flatpak, but normal package managers. But, unless you install a distro built around it (like Fedora Silverblue), nobody's forcing you to use Flatpak.
So yes, Snaps and Paks can waste similar amount of disk space and take similar amounts of time to start up, but the biggest difference is, Ubuntu has sort of woven Snaps deep into it, replacing debs for both popular applications and system components. A snap-ized Ubuntu boots slower and runs slower for basically no advantage to you as a user, compared to the same machine running something like Debian or Mint.
Now, obviously, sometimes it's worth the tradeoff. Maybe there's an app you don't trust very much, or maybe nobody has ported it to your distro of choice yet. Or maybe you run a particularly old distro, like Debian-Stable, so the version of the app in the repositories is a few years old and you want a new one. But then you can make the choice to install the Flatpak version -- unless a distro is deliberately built around it (like Silverblue), you aren't just going to upgrade and find a bunch of pieces of your system were replaced with Flatpak. But that's exactly what happened with snap -- we upgraded Ubuntu and suddenly there's a half-dozen snaps running at boot, and no way to disable it other than leave the distro.
Can you be more specific with this one? Because AFAICT, there are already CLI apps distributed as flatpaks -- it's not the best experience (you have to set up an alias), but it can be done. And as for isolation, both seem to do similar amounts of sandboxing, except Flatpak gave us portals (which hopefully Snaps are picking up too) to make it a little easier to implicitly grant access to things the user clearly wants -- e.g. if you pick something with an 'open' dialog, you probably want to give the app access to that file.
So that's for the average desktop user. But for a sysadmin, I think you're underselling the utility of a self-hosted repo. With Flatpak, or even with Debian, you can ship your own app on your own servers, particularly useful if it's (say) an internal-only thing that wouldn't make sense to just publish to all Snap users. You can have a giant caching proxy to limit bandwidth use, and you can also do periodic backups of that repo, or control which machine gets updates when. Basically, remember that time Crowdstrike bluescreened all those Windows machines? With Ubuntu, you're counting on Canonical not to do that, but you dont' actually have much control over it yourself the way you do with an open-source repo.
SanityInAnarchy@reddit
I think the things you want as a user are achieved just as well with Flatpak. The things Snap does that Flatpak doesn't are largely things no one but Canonical wants.
jr735@reddit
If it's perfect, why has only one distribution gone to it?
throttlemeister@reddit
Don't have a beef either way, but that's causation without correlation. If you're old enough, betamax was better in every way, but still VHS won.
Not saying that's the case here, but just the fact Ubuntu is one of the few using it doesn't mean it's not good.
bumwolf69@reddit
That all boiled down to recording football and since VHS wasn't tied to the hip like Beta was to Sony it got cheaper and market dictates changes like it's doing here with ubutnu's changes. Eventually they'll give up on snaps when it gets too expensive to maintain.
WaitForItTheMongols@reddit
Well, that's simply not the case. Recording time is one of the most important metrics for a recording format, and when betamax can't even fit a full feature-length movie on an L-500 tape (yes, later formats could hold more), it was dead in the water compared to VHS.
jr735@reddit
I certainly am old enough. In this case, it's not even about technical matters. As I've said here and elsewhere, snap is the Betamax of distribution agnostic program distribution systems, and not for technical reasons, but because no one wants it. It's store is essentially proprietary, and I want nothing to do with it.
Betamax also had shorter recording times, which was important for users at the time. Not having enough recording time at top quality recording speed doomed them in the home rental market. The lesson of making something technologically superior but not viable for a very important day to day task is something Canonical, and others, should note.
MardiFoufs@reddit
A part from fedora/rhel, which distro went for native support for flatpaks? As in, an official packaging solution from upstream repos? Not just a thing you can install and then use (which you can do with snaps on other distros too).
jr735@reddit
I'm not a proponent of flats, either. I'm more behind them than I am snaps, but that's because the snap store is proprietary. I used software in the distribution's repositories almost exclusively.
SpaghettiSort@reddit
Snaps are ultimately what made me switch to Mint.
Snaps have a hard-coded path whitelist that meant, for example, I couldn't use VLC to play any of my media in
/media
. I'm guessing, with Firefox in a snap, I couldn't do things like save downloads to my NAS mount either. I found someone asking about this on StackExchange (or one of those sites) and the actual developer who coded that bit of Snap showed up to tell the person that it was for their own good and they couldn't possibly take every use case into consideration! OK, fine, but you just broke something for me that worked just fine for decades, and now you're being a paternalistic snob about it?I3ULLETSTORM1@reddit
Does Snap's sandboxing work on anything other than Canonical's bespoke version of AppArmor, or is it still broken?
mrtruthiness@reddit
If you have apparmor (e.g. Debian, SUSE, ...) it offers "partial confinement". Basically that means confinement for everything except for AF_UNIX syscalls.
jack123451@reddit
No. See for example https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/1e44jib/dropping_apparmor_kernel_patches_solus/
studog-reddit@reddit
Ubuntu 18.04. The system calculator app ('gnome-calculator' I think) took 5 - 10 seconds to start, because it was a snap. Every. Time.
dreakon@reddit
That was such a dumb move on their part. Did no one test it before they released it? It's what got me to jump on the "Snaps are bad" bandwagon.
DarthPneumono@reddit
As a system administrator, you're not correct. If snap packages provided identical functionality I'd have much less of a problem with them, but as it is I spend a lot of time having to make them work in our environment (or remove and replace them, like with Firefox).
And as a Linux user, there's a ton wrong with them. One of the major things is that the user should be free to do what they want with their system, and the system should respect their choices. If I say "install the apt package firefox" and the system tells me "no, you don't get to have that, here's a container instead" that's not good.
Standard-Ask-1505@reddit
I believe snaps are the future for Ubuntu. I think they want to remove apt packages all together. Snaps have a few user improvements over flatpaks but comes with massive downsides. They need to improve performance massively before they make all packages snap. I see Ubuntu being immutable and have to reinstall for different DE or window managers or use some like rpm-tree and rebase (unsure how atomic works need more research on my part but think this is correct). Fedora is close to being all atomic just need to figure out user packages and flatpak don't work for terminal apps so Ubuntu has an advantage on that. I see snaps branching out or being forked soon.
xyphon0010@reddit
Snaps may be the future for Ubuntu, but that future is a little bleak outside of Canonical’s realm. Mostly that is because switching to snaps would give Canonical a lot of control over them. As for terminal apps on flatpak there are a few available from flat hub.
https://flathub.org/apps/search?q=Terminal
Standard-Ask-1505@reddit
Yeah apps that run in terminal is what I meant. like htop or ranger. Also i ment to use snaps technology but not Ubuntus store. Ubuntu snap store is terrible and they don't run it correctly. The snap store not being open source is the least of it issues. Ubuntu has let why too many crypto scams to be trusted.
binarypie@reddit
The only nice thing about snaps is it has a lot of official packages which despite all the other flaws of snaps is something I wish flatpak/flathub had more adoption of.
xyphon0010@reddit
And that’s good. My issue with snaps is that canonical is making applications into snaps unnecessarily and that can affect system performance.
mrlinkwii@reddit
go complain to the devs , the devs are who ask for the snaps re: thunderbird and firefox
Artoriuz@reddit
This is something that is usually brought up, but was it really the case? Why does Mozilla bother releasing a deb version of Firefox then? Did they simply change their minds on this?
mrlinkwii@reddit
Mozilla developers came to Canonical and told them they wanted the firefox snap by default https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/feature-freeze-exception-seeding-the-official-firefox-snap-in-ubuntu-desktop/24210?u=d0od
JockstrapCummies@reddit
To-the-point statement with source provided.
Downvoted to controversial.
We need to improve as a sub.
Indolent_Bard@reddit
On my end, they have 11 upvotes. Doesn't look very controversial to me.
JockstrapCummies@reddit
And it's up to 16 now, but when I posted my comment an hour after his, it was at 2, and marked with the red dagger.
Indolent_Bard@reddit
Dang.
mrtruthiness@reddit
No.
Mozilla didn't want to make and test a separate deb for 24.04, 23.10, and 22.04. Part of the Ubuntu packaging rules requires dynamic linking for system libraries and, so, each distribution would require a separate deb. The deb that Mozilla distributes from their site is statically linked for multiple distributions.
jr735@reddit
And, Mozilla recently put up their own repository for Debian and Debian-based users to get Firefox builds directly. I don't believe the claim about developers wanting snaps at all. I do believe Canonical said that. I don't believe they were honest.
jr735@reddit
How can that be the case? Thunderbird and Firefox are still made for Debian as .debs to Debian standards, as u/Artoriuz notes. Ubuntu gets most of its packages from a snapshot of Debian sid or testing, depending if it's short cycle Ubuntu or LTS. Then, Canonical often (but not always) recompiles packages for their purposes.
So, where do the Firefox and Mozilla developers have anything to do with this? In fact, Mozilla actually hosts its own repository for Debian and Debian-like users to obtain the latest Firefox without using the ESR version. All one has to do is import the key and modify one's sources.list file.
Once again, we're making an excuse for Canonical's poor decisions. Snap is the Betamax of distribution agnostic software delivery solutions.
mrlinkwii@reddit
it was literary in the release notes before the change saying Mozilla developers came to Canonical and told them they wanted the firefox snap by default https://discourse.ubuntu.com/t/feature-freeze-exception-seeding-the-official-firefox-snap-in-ubuntu-desktop/24210?u=d0od
" When Mozilla approached Canonical, they had some clear benefits in mind. Those included"
in in the literal release notes :https://www.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/92.0/releasenotes/
i mean im gonna disagree but whatever
jr735@reddit
Clearly, Mozilla is either more open to other distribution methods more than what was said in those specific citations, or they've changed their minds.
https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/kb/install-firefox-linux
https://wiki.debian.org/Firefox
The Mozilla link is from July 11, 2024 and the Debian link is from March 26, 2024. If Mozilla ever did prefer snap at one point, they've gone all the way to actually hosting their own apt repository.
You certainly can. However, I'm wondering if Mozilla isn't thinking the same thing. Just like Betamax, snap is pushed by one corporate entity and one corporate entity alone. Just like Betamax, few other organizations have adopted snap. Just like Betamax, some of those other organizations have specifically rejected snap. Just like Betamax, a very large (at least from a Linux perspective) organization pushed the format, only to have lukewarm reception, with adoption mostly among its own fans and customers.
If Mozilla preferred snap, believed they could successfully help promote it, and that it was the future of package distribution, would they have created their own apt repository since?
chic_luke@reddit
This. They should really optimize launch times
YamiYukiSenpai@reddit
I'm pretty sure they had the maintenance overhead in mind.
They pretty much maintain at least 2-3 LTS releases + whatever non-LTS is currently released
10leej@reddit
Snapd has a much better dev experience than flatpak
cdoublejj@reddit
yeah well the steam version isn't official and can't access my drives to install my games. hulk angry, very angry. hulk to go down rabbit hole to find out can only use steam from official website and app store version not work!!! Hulk sad.
OtterZoomer@reddit
I think the complaints about snaps may be overhyped. It’s easy to have the bulk or all of your stuff installed via deb packages instead of snap. And if you do use snap it’s a lot faster launching the apps than it used to be.
cdoublejj@reddit
which one looses access to everything? i installed steam and could not install games because it didn't my drives, come to find out it wasn't some unofficial packaging version of steam!!! AANNND i can't foookn PRINT from libre fox because it's some kind of snap or flatpak. ...oh it is flat pak for sure because even with flatseal i still can't print unless i reboot and it can see the printer ONCE and never again untill reboot.
DarthPneumono@reddit
I don't even care if they have snaps, they just should not be used for anything unless you ask for it. They are not equivalent in functionality and are very annoying to work around as an admin.
TheUrbaneSource@reddit
And it being proprietary seems disingenuous. It's like a slow play to closing what's an open source system
MatchingTurret@reddit
The old policy made me switch to Fedora. I got a Laptop that required a newer kernel and using the Ubuntu Mainline kernels often broke because for some reason the kernel claimed to have userspace dependencies (libc, I think).
derefr@reddit
You shouldn't need a newer libc to build the kernel, but you probably do need to install a newer libc to use a newer kernel. The kernel adds/modifies syscall ABIs, and libc is where the "client side" of syscalls lives, that knows how to FFI them into the kernel. So if the kernel changes, libc has to change in response.
Yes, that means that it should actually be the libc package that depends on the kernel package with a specified version constraint.
But they can't exactly do that, because you might be using a custom kernel and/or have multiple kernels installed (for rescue boot, for VMs, etc.) They don't want installing a new kernel to force a libc upgrade. But they do want installing a new libc to force a kernel upgrade. So they make the kernel packages express a version constraint on the libc package versions they're compatible with.
BiteImportant6691@reddit
Regardless of distro, the packaging system often doesn't know why something is listed as a dependency just that it's been explicitly listed as a dependency. It can be included because they just know you'll have functional issues if a dependency isn't met.
In this case it's probably more about dealing with issues related to a newer libc though. If the kernel introduces a new interface you probably want a libc that also lets you use it. Otherwise people will get confused or frustrated.
MatchingTurret@reddit
"We do not break user-space" is a golden rule for kernel development imposed by Linus Torvalds. If a change to the Linux kernel breaks a program it's automatically a kernel bug which needs to be fixed.
So, there exactly zero reasons why the kernel would depend on a newer libc. It's proven every day when Fedora (and now Ubuntu) are upgrading to newer kernels without touching anything else.
Hellohihi0123@reddit
The "we don't break userspace" doesn't mean the kernel will never upgrade to use new dependencies.
monocasa@reddit
That's actually exactly the intention.
The kernel intends to be backwards compatible with arbitrary user spaces. You may not get new features for free, but it's expected that you can update your kernel without updating anything else on your system.
Hellohihi0123@reddit
Yeah, I guess you're right
monocasa@reddit
They try to only make backwards compatible changes, like adding a new syscall, or only performing the new action when a new flag is added to an existing syscall. There's only been a handful of times over all of the kernel's history that this hasn't held to be true.
cloggedsink941@reddit
No. You just wouldn't be able to use the new syscalls, but the new syscalls are super niche stuff that you don't really need. In most cases they are there for android or some crazy cloud stuff.
Vogtinator@reddit
Only the opposite is true: Newer libc might need a newer kernel.
cdoublejj@reddit
i thought there was an app or command to switch your distros kernel to one of your choosing.....oh and it broke things..... well thats lame. look at me, five steps behind with cat like reflexes.
cloggedsink941@reddit
You can just download the kernel sources and run make deb-pkg and then install it. It's quite simple really.
AtomicPeng@reddit
Yeah, at some point they just stop using the current LTS to build them and use a non-LTS version, which is beyond weird.
maybeyouwant@reddit
Finally. The end of "I'm new to Linux I have the newest generation Radeon GPU and installed Linux Mint because I've read it's the easiest".
Indolent_Bard@reddit
I'm pretty sure Mint already made a change to using newer kernels before this.
S1rTerra@reddit
Isn't the whole point that Ubuntu is supposed to be stable and just work? We have distros like fedora and arch for those who want super recent kernels. This is good for gamers and those with super recent hardware but for the average Joe who "just didn't want windows" something bad could happen that they wouldn't know how to fix(though im sure old kernel versions will be available in grub)
Indolent_Bard@reddit
The biggest issue with using older kernels is hardware enablement would need to be backported, which to my knowledge is something that PopOS does, but not Ubuntu by itself. Essentially, if you want to install Linux on a shiny new laptop, you can't use Ubuntu for that.
BiteImportant6691@reddit
The change is a lot more marginal than the headline makes it sound. Basically they're just willing to ship feature frozen release candidate kernels in the initial release of a distro version. Could be wrong but I think the idea is that any fixes that go into it pre-GA can just be pushed out with regular system updates.
I still don't know if that's a good idea (calling a RC kernel GA just because people want newer hardware support). Seems like doing things like backporting hardware support and using newer kernels for install media would be preferrable. I'm sure they've probably talked it to death internally though.
VelvetElvis@reddit
If the break the out of tree drivers for my wifi dongle, I'm going to be pissed. I hope they keep the LTS kernels around.
jason-reddit-public@reddit
My shiny new N100 PC and a shiny new Debian Bookworm didn't see eye to eye on what kernel to use. Luckily wired ethernet got me through the install and a backports kernel worked fine and got my wifi working.
I wouldn't mind if the installer had lots of kernels to choose from. (Wouldn't most people choose the latest for a desktop?)
OS-X, Windows, Android and Chromebooks don't suffer this problem because the right kernel just comes with the device pre-installed.
finitelife_87@reddit
OSX, Android, and ChromeOS are tailored to support a specific subset of devices and hardware. The remaining hardware is designed to work with Windows first, and maybe tested on other OSes. Linux can be installed on a toaster and use bread as storage media. Your 'right kernel' argument is short sighted.
jason-reddit-public@reddit
I'm all for running Linux on a toaster.
It would also be great if more laptops and desktops came with Linux pre-installed (though naturally we all have our favorite distro...)
A Chromebook already has a really nice linux kernel sitting there perfect for that device but you can't use the device as a pure Linux device (at least without jumping through hoops) and AFAIK you can't really reuse that nice kernel.
Lenovo (non-Chromebooks) seem friendly towards Linux but it took me a while to figure out how to get Linux to install because the BIOS kind of sucks and there are more steps involved to make Windows happy if you want to dual boot. It was actually easier to install Linux on my old Intel Macbook!
C0rn3j@reddit
Now they just need to change their policy where 90%+ of their packages([universe] repository) do not get security updates unless you have an active Ubuntu Pro subscription for me to even remotely consider recommending it to anyone.
skc5@reddit
Do you have a source for the claim that you do not receive security updates for packages in the universe repo but ESM users do? I haven’t heard that before.
You’re aware that ESM is free for personal use up to 3 machines? Yes it’s hoops you wouldn’t have to go through with Debian, so that may be the better option for the home users.
lusuroculadestec@reddit
Just using ffmpeg as one example.
without esm-apps enabled:
With esm-apps enabled:
Ubuntu's page for USN-5958-1 shows it fixes CVE-2022-3109 and CVE-2022-3341 and the mitigation for 22.04 is only with Ubuntu Pro and esm. This has been the case since 2023 when the security bulletin was published.
It's just one of the examples of where a security patch was being held back for then-current LTS release unless the user had access to esm-apps.
skc5@reddit
I get what you guys are trying to say, that if canonical has these updates they should make them available. I get that, but they aren’t pulling a fast one on you.
They say that Universe is community-maintained, they are not packaged by Canonical. So for ffmpeg, you’d want the maintainers: The Debian Multimedia Team to upload and package the fixes from upstream. You’re kinda at their mercy for Universe packages.
Canonical does not provide a guarantee of regular security updates for software in the universe component, but will provide these where they are made available by the community. Users should understand the risk inherent in using these packages.
C0rn3j@reddit
Nobody else but Canonical has access to pushing packages to the universe repository, in fact, like I said earlier, Debian can already have the fix that Ubuntu is gating behind a subscription.
Also if the fix is in a newer feature release, it won't get shipped.
skc5@reddit
As far as I can tell, Canonical has never supported Universe security updates before ESM existed. It’s just something extra they offer for enterprise customers that need guaranteed updates because we can’t just upgrade to the latest OS all the time.
It is community-maintained.
I’m just saying the same things over and over again at this point. I can’t make you understand it. Use a different distro if you don’t like it.
C0rn3j@reddit
The fact they never had security updates until they let a subscription service have them is NOT making this better lol.
C0rn3j@reddit
Sure, Canonical's own website where they claim they give X years of free security updates and conveniently leave out that Universe isn't covered, and the Pro subscription page specifying that even Universe is covered.
You are aware that the terms are subject to change? And I have more than 3 machines in hardware, much less in VMs and containers.
skc5@reddit
Sounds like no, you don’t have a source. Was Universe ever included in security updates from Canonical? Sounds like Universe is “community-maintained”.
ESM guarantees security updates past the LTS’s GENEROUS 5 years of support, that’s all. Pretty awesome that they support the community-managed packages in Universe too.
Honestly people hating on Ubuntu with this FUD is starting to get annoying.
C0rn3j@reddit
https://ubuntu.com/about/release-cycle
"Ubuntu LTS releases receive 5 years of standard security maintenance for all packages in the ‘Main’ repository. With an Ubuntu Pro subscription, you get access to Expanded Security Maintenance (ESM) covering security fixes for packages in both the ‘Main’ and ‘Universe’ repositories for 10 years. "
I expected better ability to read documentation from a Gentoo user.
skc5@reddit
I said ESM covers security updates PAST the 5 year mark. Re-read my post if you need to. I thought it was a given that Ubuntu releases are covered for 5 years by default. ESM doesn’t start until the 5 year mark.
I use Ubuntu LTS on all our servers at work, and I am responsible for them all. All the documentation is out there for you to read.
The quote you posted agrees with everything I’ve posted thus far. No need to attack my character, let’s focus on the issue, which is what exactly?
C0rn3j@reddit
For Main repository, not Universe, yes, did you not read the text above?
skc5@reddit
What point are you trying to make?
Universe’s security updates are community-maintained unless you use ESM.
mrlinkwii@reddit
you can get up to 50 for free if you have a ubuntu forum account
"Official Ubuntu community members can benefit from Ubuntu Pro on up to 50 machines.In order to get the token, log in with your existing Ubuntu One account or create a free account."
C0rn3j@reddit
https://ubuntu.com/community/membership
It's not as simple as creating a forum account my friend.
mrlinkwii@reddit
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/10qbvg2/the_following_security_updates_require_ubuntu_pro/j6phu7t/
also 50 if you have a ubuntu community account
skc5@reddit
Nice catch, I didn’t know about that! 50 is a ton! I don’t even have that many VMs at home lol
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
That sounds like asking for the moon to me. I'd never expect this to happen
C0rn3j@reddit
Of course, they are a for-profit company, but almost nobody using Ubuntu is aware they're running their OS without security updates.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
I doubt most of them are opting into universe.
C0rn3j@reddit
Universe is opt-out, not opt-in.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
I must be confusing it with mutliverse. Although i can't seem to find an official source that shows what is enabled by default. I guess i'd actually have to install ubuntu :(
sparky8251@reddit
My experience at least with fresh server installs from their ISOs are that all 4 are enabled by default these days.
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
I hae a hard time believing multiverse is enabled by default.
counts_per_minute@reddit
it is, i just created 2 bespoke dashboard shitboxes using ubuntu desktop 24.04 at work
Business_Reindeer910@reddit
gotta wonder when that happened. I know the last time i used it i had to enable it
sparky8251@reddit
Well... was for me. Did it just the other day...
mrlinkwii@reddit
i think theirs a misunderstanding , packages are still getting updates , its just wont normally get special security patches https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/comments/10qbvg2/the_following_security_updates_require_ubuntu_pro/j6phu7t/
but with ububtu pro their will be special security patches
C0rn3j@reddit
There is no misunderstanding, there are no security updates, that's what I have been saying this entire time.
TheComradeCommissar@reddit
You get security updates during that particular iteration lifespan; anyway, you do realize how Pro is free for individual users, right?
C0rn3j@reddit
No, you do not.
Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
Ubuntu LTS has the Hardware Enablement (HWE) stack already.
that_leaflet@reddit
This affects HWE. The old process was to pick the stable kernel at the time of the kernel freeze. The new process is to pick the latest in development kernel if the stable version would be released before the new Ubuntu release.
CrazyCrazyCanuck@reddit
HWE is an orthogonal issue to this. The article does not explain it clearly.
Old policy: 20.04.5 LTS (HWE) was released on 2022-09-01. Kernel 5.15 and 5.16 both existed upstream at the time, but 5.15 was chosen because it was the latest stable release (5.16 was still in RC).
New policy applied retroactively as an example : 20.04.5 LTS (HWE) was released on 2022-09-01. Kernel 5.15 and 5.16 both existed upstream at the time, and 5.16 was chosen because it is newest release that meets the requirement of either stable or RC.
So for users who stay on LTS for 10 years and does not use HWE, it means every ten years their kernel version will one point release higher.
For users who stay on LTS and apply every HWE, it means every HWE kernel will be one point release higher.
Weekly-Math@reddit
This is good news. Ubuntu is easily the most popular Linux distro for those willing to try out Linux. I have a relatively new laptop that had missing features on older kernel versions (camera shutter key didn't work/ brightness toggles were wonky), but worked flawless on Fedora.
ChimeraSX@reddit
Perfect, now remove snaps and allow up to date DE's and mesa. Idk if they'll become the next fedora or anything. Another semi-rolling stable release that's easy to set up is always welcome.
mooky1977@reddit
Took long enough. In so many ways, backporting patches to old kernels for distributions (that aren't corporate LTS) seems like more effort than eyes from multiple projects/sources keeping watch on a well deployed current kernel.
Economy_Blueberry_25@reddit
Yeah, that will backfire big time. Newer kernels are NOT as reliable as older ones, this is why I migrated from Arch to Debian: absolutely NO kernel of the 6.9.x nor 6.10.x series worked on my machine. It was hangups all over.
The official comment on that post says that Ubuntu LTS «24.04.2 will get the 6.11 HWE» kernel. Prepare for an inrush of people posting left and right, moaning about how the upgrade broke their machine, looking for instructions to downgrade/pin the kernel version, etc.
TheComradeCommissar@reddit
I am sorry, but this really looks as you thing. Have you installed any weird, non-maintained packages? It's also hard to believe how there are absolutely no logs for all of your numerous issues. Furthermore, how would new, non-tech-savvy users with new hardware use Ubuntu then? By quitting after 5 minutes and returning back to Windows maybe?
MatchingTurret@reddit
We don't see that from Fedora users.
RodionRaskolnikov__@reddit
I've been using fedora on desktop for quite a while now and occasionally had to boot into a previous kernel version because things like suspending the computer stop working. It's not very often but it happens a few times a year.
And this is on a computer form 2019 mind you, no cutting edge hardware or anything.
Economy_Blueberry_25@reddit
I beg to differ. A quick search on Reddit shows otherwise. Probably many other cases.
YamiYukiSenpai@reddit
That's why 24.10 is currently being tested. They aren't just gonna release with major breaking issues for a lot of people.
FrostyDiscipline7558@reddit
Ahem... wayland?
C0rn3j@reddit
Could you link some of your bug reports?
Economy_Blueberry_25@reddit
I have none, because the crashes were catastrophic system freezes, no journalctl acting whatsoever. When these happened, I had to manually reset the computer and select the LTS kernel which (fortunately) I installed on the side. And these crashes happened with each and every release starting from 6.9 forward.
C0rn3j@reddit
A bug report is definitely important to make in such cases.
If there are no bug reports, there are no issues, installing other things randomly when you run into an issue is not a solution.
apo--@reddit
Projects may have specific requirements about bug reports and often the procedure feels like work.
There are some things that they should have noticed themselves before releasing the software or before packaging it and them not noticing them may be an indication it might better to use something else.
For issues that have something to do with specific hardware it may be worth reporting the issue. But in many cases it isn't.
Economy_Blueberry_25@reddit
Sorry, I don't have time for that, I have things to do on my computer besides beta-testing them kernels. Now, I am rocking Debian 12 (kernel 6.2) and loving it! Having a stable GNOME version is the only way to use it comfortably.
C0rn3j@reddit
Yet you have time to spend to complain in here about issues you didn't have time to actually report.
Economy_Blueberry_25@reddit
I am not complaining. This is my way to saying to the Arch community: so long, and thanks for all the fish! 🐬 😁
ABotelho23@reddit
Your fairly vanilla LTS kernels on Arch are not the same as the long maintained kernels of a more opinionated distribution.
HotTakeGenerator_v5@reddit
arch btw
gabriel_3@reddit
Previously posted, original article: https://www.reddit.com/r/linux/s/PZvlEaRh66
autogyrophilia@reddit
Fucking hate AI Art