Is Europe declining? It doesn't seem as great as it used to
Posted by SharingDNAResults@reddit | expats | View on Reddit | 482 comments
I posted this comment and got an interesting response, so I decided to make it a post to see what other people think.
My honest feeling is that the US has (for some strange reason) been improving a lot lately, while the UK/Europe has been rapidly declining/decaying. I noticed this change post-pandemic.
I used to want to live in Europe, and have lived in/visited several EU countries in the past. It was my dream, but I visited recently and couldn’t wait to come home. Something has changed, and I don’t think it’s just me. The US feels like a dynamic and exciting place, while Europe feels like the opposite of that.
Europe felt dirtier, less socially cohesive, poorer, and devoid of opportunities compared to 10 years ago. Maybe I had on rose-colored glasses when I was younger, but has anyone else noticed this change? Or am I crazy? And yes I realize that every European country is different. I'm generalizing here for discussion purposes.
VikDamnedLee@reddit
Most places are, man. The world is going through a downturn at the moment. It’ll bounce back eventually.
TheGoldenGooch@reddit
The “world” will. Can’t exactly say humans will.
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
There's 8 billion people on a planet with constantly declining natural resources and a collapsing biosphere.
Just wait till we start running out of oil and climate change actually starts getting real nasty. I'm so glad I didn't bring kids into this nightmare.
Famous-Writer-6258@reddit
Birth rates are declining everywhere though and people are getting more illness from processed food and bad lifestyle. We should be okay. Also EVs can be a decent alternative
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
I don't mean this in a hostile way but it's clear you don't know what you are talking about.
Cars are a mere fraction of humanities carbon pollution. The global life expectancy is 72 years so I'm not sure why you think low birth rates are going to magically save us.
The biosphere is literally collapsing in real time. All of humanity could be wiped out tomorrow and every ecosystem would still be destroyed or extremely damaged due to climate change. The damage from climate change doesn't happen overnight. Glaciers can take decades to melt, species take years to go extinct etc.
Famous-Writer-6258@reddit
Thank you for correcting me i indeed do not know what im talking about. What about in 72 years though when most of the current generation dies out and there's no new rising population to replace them? And what about alternative energy source implementation? They're bound to start using an alternative eventually once the climate change damages become more prominent no?
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
How is any of that relevant? Did you even read my last paragraph?
granddesignsmoney@reddit
"...You are aware c02 stays in the atmosphere for 300 to 1,000 years?..."
Correct Timing is Everything - Also for CO2 in the Air
Guest Editorial by Tom V. Segalstad
Associate Professor of Resource and Environmental Geology
The University of Oslo, Norway
Volume 12, Number 31: 5 August 2009
“…The correct evaluation of the CO2 residence time -- giving values of about 5 years for the bulk of the atmospheric CO2 molecules…”
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
Ahhh another MAGA climate change denier that has no scientific literacy, what a surprise.
Zealousideal_Put793@reddit
lol far fewer people die of climate related changes than in the past. we are also well on our way to hit global warming targets. Pseudo-intellectuals like you went to college when you really should have worked in coal mines.
LizP1959@reddit
I think the person posting that means ecosystem collapse and things like famine (can’t grow crops, too many fires and floods, too hot, no enough or too much water, soil depletion etc.) The food supply for humans is precarious. Then after that you get major civil unrest, political instability, violence, etc., mass migrations and starvation, and so on. Pretty much a hellscape.
granddesignsmoney@reddit
…and yet not a single climate “refugee” yet…
The man who would be the first climate change refugee
By Tim McDonald BBC News, Kiribati
“…The threat of sea-level rise was the basis of his four year battle to become the world's first recognised climate refugee.
But courts in New Zealand rejected his claim, and he was deported in September for overstaying his visa. He says that decision has put him in danger…”
nthlmkmnrg@reddit
That would be way too late.
Slow_Pace_125@reddit
😆 you came off as mean even with disclaimer. Intelligent response but still a little mean.
norseraven39@reddit
No no birth rates are declining solely in the US. But then the US is also the only country where you can't just walk into a clinic and get an anti kid method without being hassled by nutjobs, lectured about "Oh you're gonna change your mind.", etc. Half the countries in Europe have these clinics. You can walk in, see someone for free and get your chosen pill etc whatever done same day and walk out. Very rarely do they require a second appointment.
Avg cost of birth control in the US is 4 grand. 99 percent of insurance doesn't cover it.
We're also the only country having real issues with food. 98 percent of what US has in its food is banned in Europe for being "genetically, hormonally, and chemically imbalancing bio chems." and the remaining 2 percent are so heavily regulated there's only one farm I'm aware of in Europe and it's in Spain.
EVs aren't an alternative. They make 500 times more damage to the environment. My beater '99 with a shot catalytic converter produces less than making an EV's axle does and this isn't counting lifespan damage.
Fun fact those nifty charging stations? They aren't hooked into the electric grid as you've been told. Nope. They're fed (depending on area for size) by a minimum 5,000 gallon tank of unleaded gas. That's right. Your "eco" car is still gas powered.
Get off the rainbow bud. Things aren't peachy right now. Things are right before Mufasa bites it.
Famous-Writer-6258@reddit
Birth rates are declining everywhere except Norway Thailand and Philippines. EV causing damage I agree but what about solar energy or other alternatives?
norseraven39@reddit
Birth rates aren't though. Except in the US. Everywhere has either been fairly steady or a slight uptick but only the US is declining. And the reason is because of how things are. Top three reasons of death in the US currently? Unaliving oneself, stress related causes (they're so numerous it had to be given a bloody blanket term), and vehicular related causes.
Famous-Writer-6258@reddit
Show me a link? My research showing me birth rates are declining everywhere except handful of countries.
norseraven39@reddit
Birth rates are only "declining" if there is less births than deaths. In that retrospect only the US is declining. All others are not. What you're likely looking at is just the birth rates not the population balance. At the current rate, the US will fully stagnate and stop growing by 2040.
Famous-Writer-6258@reddit
Ah I understand thank you for clarifying. That's very concerning for the US!
granddesignsmoney@reddit
…IPCC AR6 (2021) p.8-56 [8.3.2.8.1]: “…In summary, there is low confidence of an observed increase in TC [Tropical Cyclone] precipitation intensity due to observing system limitations…”
…IPCC AR6 (2021) A.3.4: “…There is low confidence in long-term (multi-decadal to centennial) trends in the frequency of all-category tropical cyclones…”
…IPCC AR6 (2021) 8.3.1.5: “…SROCC found … low confidence that anthropogenic climate change has already affected the frequency and magnitude of floods at the global scale…”
…IPCC AR6 (2021), 8.1.2.1: “… there is low confidence in any global-scale observed trend in drought or dryness (lack of rainfall) since the mid-20th century…In terms of the potential for abrupt change in components of the water cycle, long-term droughts and monsoonal circulation were identified as potentially undergoing rapid changes, but the assessment was reported with low confidence..”
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
Ahhh another MAGA climate change denier that has no scientific education, what a surprise.
VikDamnedLee@reddit
“The world will be fine, the people are fucked.” -George Carlin
glamazoncollette@reddit
Truer words never spoken..
REIGuy3@reddit
Yes, GDP there has been declining for some time. They have chosen regulation instead of innovation. https://assets.weforum.org/editor/nsJATA4WLRpPRz2kIYYi8Jxyb8xWzXLYweHoMqtIxhM.png
ButMuhNarrative@reddit
I read once that the EU’s biggest innovations in the last 20 years have been regulatory. It was hard to disagree then, and it’s hard to now. Some of it’s been good (making Apple behave). But regulations should be peripheral. Not front and center.
I actually feel a lot like OP. Love Europe, wanted to live there. But now I prefer to just visit :(
mjratchada@reddit
Well it is nonsense. Covid-19 demonstrated who was the most innovative. Last year 8 out of 11 most innovative countries were in Europe all were above china and two were above USA, the top ranked country was one of the most regulated.
Lack of regulation caused the last financial crisis. Regulations should be central. Should there be central regulation to people that care for children? Should regulation be central to to creation of new medicines and chemicals? Should access to you data by tech companies be regulated to the core ? The answer is yes to all. Counties that lack appropriate regulation are ones with deep problems.
ButMuhNarrative@reddit
Revisionist Tripe
Tantra-Comics@reddit
They chose regulation because they receive a lot of downside vs upside when technology is exported from USA.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
Europe is bouncing way slower than US though. If at all. Declining population, declining education, racist shit popping again, idiots swarming the streets, paid propaganda filling the Web, all while salaries are stagnating and we need to pay more and more taxes to take care of increasing numbers of older generations and lazy people.
VikDamnedLee@reddit
Sounds a lot like here in the US, honestly.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
US gas times higher salaries on average or median even. While life is not more expensive. Yes, poor Americans are worse than poor Europeans, let's say. But anyone making decent living in the US is better than the avg European. We are leaving subjective factors aside.
OptionalBagel@reddit
Lol ok. What European countries/cities are you comparing to which American states/cities
proof_required@reddit
Paris/London/Munich/Milan vs NYC/SF/
Waterglassonwood@reddit
What? Lol. NYC is way more expensive than most European cities. Comparing Lisbon to SanFran or NYC is fucking ludicrous.
There are numbers on this.
proof_required@reddit
Absolute numbers hardly make sense. Here when adjusted for local salaries
Local Purchasing Power in San Francisco, CA is 155.7% higher than in Lisbon
Local Purchasing Power in San Francisco, CA is 34.0% higher than in London
Local Purchasing Power in San Francisco, CA is 24.1% higher than in Paris
mjratchada@reddit
Why does SF have such a ridiculous number of people living on the streets? That is the best indication of how affordable it. Is. Even countries in Europe with a deep housing crisis do not have a problem on this scale. Income inequality and access to good education and healthcare is vastly superior in Europe. Most importantly quality of life. Salaries are higher, career progression is easier beyond that USA falls down.
proof_required@reddit
We aren't discussing that are we? If we are going on a tangent, why does southern European countries have so much unemployment among youth? Why are younger people leaving in droves to other part of Europe?
Waterglassonwood@reddit
That's not what was said originally. The claim was:
Nothing here talks about purchasing power (which is higher in the US anyway, nobody with a quarter of a brain would argue otherwise). I know it wasn't you who made this comment, but you came in its defence, so there.
proof_required@reddit
Well talking in absolute manner is bit pointless. That should not even be an argument.
Waterglassonwood@reddit
It tells the guy above is straight up wrong? That was my point, anyway.
OptionalBagel@reddit
I mean if you're rich maybe you're not dealing with a cost of living crisis in NYC/SF, but otherwise it's pretty fucking bad
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Life is definitely more expensive in the US if you actually look at where most people live. And it’s in general really hard to compare incomes and actual wealth. On paper Missouri (or a different similar state) has an higher average income than the UK. But the average life quality (measured by other things like e.g. life expectancy) is definitely better in the UK.
And I’m not saying your wrong, salaries are indeed higher in the US. But in general it’s also way riskier and one misfortune can cost you a lot. Which isn’t the case in most European countries.
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
The UK outside London is a quiet poor place in terms of economy. And from recent days, the UK is hellhole with crazy riots
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
LOL, it’s really not that bad. Life is definitely better in a small British rural village than in rural Alabama or Missouri. Anyone who says something else has never been to the really poor regions in the US. It’s quite shocking imo.
But if your higher middle class and upper class you can probably have a better life in the US
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
And in the UK upward social mobility simply doesn’t exist. Its a very class society and your destiny is predetermined by the class where you were born. It either low class, middle or oligarchy/aristocracy. Even their way of speaking is different based on what class you are from. In many ways, Britain is more similar to India and Russia than the USA and continental Europe or Canada and Australia
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
The UK is diving into chaos because of violent protests. People get prosecuted because social media posts. People chose either they eat or heat their housing. Nothing works properly, nurses and doctors in NHS get paid worse than American fast food workers. Everything is worse in Britain. Maybe the only advantage is that extreme poor people feel slightly better in Britain than in the U.S.
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
Have you been to northern England? It poorer than Romania
mjratchada@reddit
It is recovering slower but not way slower. Population is increasing and likely to peak in two years. Education is not declining. All the rest applies to the USA. Your lazy comment does you no favours. The USA has polarised and toxic politics at the moment political situation in Europe is vastly better.
BranFendigaidd@reddit
It is recovering way waaaaay slower. To the point that Germany is even declining. You calling lazy someone while being so uni formed is ironic. Especially calling the political situation in Europe better. 😂
Gold-Instance1913@reddit
I agree with you about the salaries, but the rest I'd describe from the opposite standpoint.
glamazoncollette@reddit
Free healthcare and cheap groceries though... a US salary in Poland or Czech works wonders
BranFendigaidd@reddit
Free healthcare? How is it free? I. Pay 500euro a month and rarely use it.
hudibrastic@reddit
Economically the US could be better, but still is doing way better than Europe https://www.wsj.com/articles/europeans-poorer-inflation-economy-255eb629
Attention_WhoreH3@reddit
But the WSJ doesn't usually measure holistically
Europeans generally Iive longer, are more likely to attend college, have better mental health, are less likely to die violently etc
PancakeOrder@reddit
Also they don't go bankrupt when they required medical attention, or have to fear getting shot at by the cops / some idiot somewhere.
DatingYella@reddit
Societally, the EU does a better job for its native citizens. Whenever I see comments like this however, I'm always reminded that it depends on the person. If you're a middle class person who's not involved in organized crime, the odds are you will not run into these issues. Employment based insurance is not optimal, but I would be surprised if, again, if you're middle class or above, that you don't have access to insurance that would cover the vast majority of healthcare costs.
hudibrastic@reddit
College attendance in the US is higher than in most European countries: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_tertiary_education_attainment
United States: 25%, Norway: 21%, Germany: 18%, France: 12%, Spain: 11%, Portugal: 10%
Mental health issues is also higher in Spain, Portugal, Ireland or Greece, and very similar in France or the Netherlands https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-with-mental-and-substance-disorders?tab=table
Life expectancy is a higher in Europe, due mostly to life style, like eating too much fast food, thigs that a sane person can avoid, and also Europe is worse than the most developed Asia https://www.worldometers.info/demographics/life-expectancy/
norseraven39@reddit
It's higher because in the US people were previously held back by crippling student debt. Once the forgiveness programs became an option people actually flocked to college.
Life expectancy is higher in Europe because you can literally lay out a map, throw a dart, hit Spain, and go for a weekend excursion.
You hit a dart here and depending on the state you'll be taking a nine hour traffic run to a different part of the state.
Mental health is an issue yes but it is handled far better than here in the US. Fun fact in terms of the world, the US is roughly six percent of the world's population and yet we consume/buy sixty six percent of the world anti depressant supply. The next closest was I believe Australia at 12 percent but this was on 2020 numbers so take that with a grain of salt for Australia.
As for development comparing anything to Asia is like comparing the top 3 companies for steak. Asia is a very unique continent in that each socio extreme is present.
You have Japan. Considered one of the healthiest countries. Vehicular transportation not counting buses accounts for less than a percent. Their primary modes are walking, biking, bus, and train of some flavor or another. Their pollution footprint is also one of the smallest. Educational wise they're number 2 in all but Science and Math of which they're number 1. Finland is the other respectively at 1 and 2 in science and math.
Then you turn left and have China. Turn right you have South Korea. It is quite the unique continent and entirely inappropriate for use as a comparison because let's face it next to Japan every country is a chump.
And one final note on education. It isn't a shame in Europe if you don't go. The job markets while ever fluctuating aren't unbalanced like it is in the US. When I was looking I kept seeing "20k a year, Bachelor required, entry level" or "17 an hour, Master's, entry level".
Also if you do need any kind of loans in say Britain, you have 5 yrs minimum to find a stable job, housing etc. US it's "Congrats on graduation here's a 700 dollar loan payment, only 5 of it actually pays your loans, interest accrues at 900 a month, and good luck finding a job.".
Attention_WhoreH3@reddit
"Europe is boring"
What a stupid comment. Most European countries have at least something brilliant to do: beaches with crystal clear water, stunning mountains, street festivals, carnivals, Pride, major sports events etc
Dragon_Flow@reddit
Ironically, Europe is doing badly because of the US. When the US economy does badly, Europe gets hit. Plus US intervention in places like Ukraine and Israel is making Europe insecure, whereas the US is far away.
kranj7@reddit
I do agree here, but what I'm afraid if is that the world will need WW III or similar to then create a war economy and then bounce back during the post-war re-build
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
if there is a WWIII EVERYONE loses. Think of the bioweapons and mass destruction the that would reek havoc for decades on end. There's no way it would be good for the economy.
Overall-Ad-2159@reddit
WWW III is kind of happening. Every is involved in proxy wars
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
Lol that's not www III. Not even close.
Overall-Ad-2159@reddit
Yes but its almost Ukraine vs Russia Proxy war in Syria Proxy war in Yemen In future usa will be involved in the Taiwan war planning usa funding genocide
PrettyIntroduction73@reddit
Your I told you so is gonna be heard around the world.
No-Tip3654@reddit
WW3 is inevitable. After that economies will be very local and on an extremly small scale compared to now (think of small villages with a couple thousands souls at most).
VikDamnedLee@reddit
That’s my fear as well but I didn’t want to be a total downer in my reply, lol.
Human_Buy7932@reddit
Fourth Turning?
Soft-Weight-8778@reddit
This seems to make sense along with current events
dangerislander@reddit
It history repeating itself. This shit always happens. And yet we never learn.
redrabbitreader@reddit
Nobody listens to those who have learned and are trying to convince the powers that be to change course. Their voices disappear like a fart in a tornado.
Bandwagonsho@reddit
The generations that experienced it as adults last time are almost all gone. It makes a difference having people who have gone through something horrific - they act as a bulwark.
Vikkio92@reddit
I wish I could share your optimism.
Additional-Ad-9088@reddit
Ahhhh, i was waiting for the “sun will come out” theory of economics and social decay.
HVP2019@reddit
As someone who has lived for … longer time than other people, I have seen various countries on both continents going through cycles of progressing and regressing in various aspects.
So if someone makes a decision to move to a country X because they believe that it is better than country Y, they should take into consideration that both countries will be going through periods of improvement and regressing/stagnation.
I think most Europeans countries will be doing better than countries in Latin America, Africa, and similar. Different Western European countries may take leading positions economically/politically but all countries will be doing reasonably well.
I am not planning to move to western Europe/EU from US because I don’t believe such migration will lead to any meaningful long lasting improvements.
I have friends in Western Europe who/EU and I wouldn’t recommend for them to migrate to USA for the same reason.
sjplep@reddit
Yep, as someone who has lived and worked in the UK, US, Australia, Japan and France, I'm with you here. I actually agree that western Europe has been in a decline since austerity (and especially Brexit) -but- the same is also true of the US, with democracy itself being undermined there (somewhat less true of western Europe despite recent political turmoil, but who knows what's around the corner). The issues facing Europe and North America have more in common than not and are on comparatively similar paths. Everyone has their own reasons for moving of course, but the grass isn't always greener.
Marlenawrites@reddit
The grass is definitely greener. If you move to Western/Northern Europe from Eastern Europe you would see what I mean. Moving to another country to improve your life and economic situation works-I wouldn't be where I am if I didn't emigrate.
priphilli@reddit
This largery depends on what you're looking for in life. I know people who emigrated the other way and found happiness as well. For example, I'm not very money-oriented, and for certain reasons I don't prefer living in the west.
argjwel@reddit
Moving cities to gather better economic/educational/social prospects is often good, even if it is in the same country.
Marlenawrites@reddit
Yeah, it doesn't matter as long as you get a better living/chance at earning more.
sjplep@reddit
Understood, which is why I was careful to mention -western- Europe.
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
The UK is now experiencing the closure of democracy because of riots. And economically the UK is much worse than both the USA and EU
domsolanke@reddit
Economically the UK is way ahead of southern Europe hence the large influx. Let’s not overexaggerate here.
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
It’s a shame also because Italy’s economy has shown some growth recently unlike the UK. And Italy is still second manufacturing country in Europe after Germany
Cold_Detective_6184@reddit
The British economy hasn’t grown since 2008. Neither in pure numbers or wages. And anything that was left to you is to be compared to a broke ass countries like Greece, Portugal or Spain who were never really developed to begin with. It’s a shame, you know. Back in a 2007 you were competing with the USA, Germany and France and know you are competed to countries like Portugal and Greece. Don’t you find it pathetic? Because I do
ZLTM@reddit
I see this comment a bunch and it always comes from people migrating from 1 word to 1 world, if you live in an undeveloped country moving to Europe is a game changer
Pin_ellas@reddit
Have you seen this video? It's by founder of the world's largest hedge fund. The title is Changing of World Order.
https://youtu.be/xguam0TKMw8?si=6-q2tztK1c-ferso
5-min trailer.
https://youtu.be/BB2r_eOjsPw?si=eyHoalxK0b6dSC84
Middlearthdude@reddit
There’s some fact check by economists on this idea tho https://youtu.be/s1iv0q_SW3E?si=nGQCsi8e20F8r7WC
Pin_ellas@reddit
I went to the LinkedIn page of the person who did the video. No offense but how can someone like him has the knowledge, experience, and resources to factcheck Ray Dalio?
I don't know if Ray Dalio is smart, or he knows smart people, or a combination of, but I have no doubt that his 15B networth can buy information and knowledge that the guy who factchecked him can't.
There's no telling who will come out on top. It could be China. It could be U.S. Maybe even Russia or India. We aren't looking at the next 10 years. We're talking about longer than that. So, unless you're in the game, and on top of everything, it's just a guess.
The reason that I mentioned Ray Dalio's video is to point out that empire comes and goes. The first half of my life, it's the U.S., who knows which country would lead the 2nd half of my life, or maybe the last quarter of my life. There's no permanent answer when it comes to picking a country to move to. Things change. Not the next 5 years, 10 years, 15 years, but they will change.
thefumingo@reddit
As a mainlander Chinese who now lives in North America, China surpasses North America in some quality of life aspects (walkability, convenience and infrastructure is amazing compared to the US), but also has a lot of their own severe problems that threaten to blow the whole deck of cards apart
I genuinely believe the world (and maybe even humanity) is going through long-term decline at this point, and the leading nation is which country falls less than rises faster
Qqqqqqqquestion@reddit
Europe has massive problems that are unlikely to go away.
Safety is a massive issue. Countries that used to be safe are no longer safe.
The economy is another huge issue. The war in Europe is currently suffocating Europe as energy prices have skyrocketed to a level that makes European industry uncompetitive.
Demographics and cultural cohesion is another huge issue that is not going away.
Inthropist@reddit
Do you mean the immigrant issue or the war situation in general?
Qqqqqqqquestion@reddit
In Oslo we now have almost daily knife attacks. As in random members of the public get attacked daily for no reason at all.
I didn’t use to be like that
johndutton80@reddit
Maybe if Europeans had listened to the US when it told them years ago to not rely too much on Russia, they'd have diversified their energy suppliers (like any businessman with 2 brain cells would do). But since they are stuck-up, entitled and always feel superior, they didn't listen, and now are paying the price.
gringosean@reddit
The U.S. has the advantage of being the worlds currency holder and therefore has a printer that can go brrrrr
Inthropist@reddit
Also the geopolitical safety. There is zero fear that one day Russian tanks roll into Dallas because Putin declared Texas historical Russian land.
Professional-Pea2831@reddit
I have friend with like 10 years of PM manufacturing in the telecommunications sector across Japan, Taiwan and China, and Europe. In Germany he can't get a job - cause his German is on B2 level. We were having lunch, when the HR girl ( by sound was very young lady ) called and in a minute of conversation said oh you have difficulties talking German. You can't do job well. And she hung up. Wtf? how should a friend learn German better when not giving him a fair chance. And salary for this job was 2500€ bruto. This is like 30k € per year. In USA - (assume he has visa ) he would get a job for 100k USD - no problem. In China he would get job too. In Germany getting a job it seems forever. In their eyes non German=== less qualified. When you come with this cocky mindset in business you will have poor cocky results
Germans are full of themselves. Anyone working with them, knows they are stiff and not very efficient. German companies are super stingy. Whole mindset is stingy. The government spent tone on social policies, but refused to stimulate the economy.
Inthropist@reddit
Yes, this. If a department of an American major company became this inefficient, the entire board of directors would get sacked on the spot.
okaybut1stcoffee@reddit
I can only speak for UK and France but France is covered in homeless people and the cities smell like shit and piss, due to the cost of housing having gone way up, everything is way dirtier, people seem a lot more disgruntled and racist, and their version of Gen Z is more entitled than humanly imaginable. When I lived here before the pandemic it was much cleaner, housing was much more affordable, there weren’t so many homeless people, food in supermarkets was more affordable, and people just seemed a lot happier and friendlier. Immigration hasn’t been controlled and there’s now huge waitlists for doctors and dentists as there are not éloigné to privée for the population, at least in my region. It was my favorite place ever before and now my skin crawls just being here.
The UK… people are getting arrested for retweeting, don’t even get me started.
m0nsieurp@reddit
Which city in France do you live in? Not my experience at all with the country. I'm native and I've been living on the French Riviera for the past 10 years. Definitely not the picture you're drawing of France from where I stand.
napalmtree13@reddit
Every time I go back to the U.S. I think things are getting worse there. I’m very happy in Germany and (as someone with a chronic illness) thank my good fortune every day that I’m no longer in the U.S.
What do you think has improved in the U.S.? Because even my friends who still live there are always talking about how things are worse. And I don’t just mean the damage caused by Trump’s presidency. Even customer service, one of the few truly great aspects of life in the U.S., has really plummeted.
Kibblesnb1ts@reddit
Customer service has indeed plummeted in the US in my anecdotal experience. My guess is two related things: cutting staffing which puts more burden on the remaining employees, who are overworked and underpaid. Why should they care about good service under those job conditions? Add to that the overtly hostile treatment they suffer from awful customers, especially since Covid and possibly other factors that exacerbated poor behavior in public. No wonder.
gbeaglez@reddit
It's definitely this the difference between 2019 and now is very noticeable. It also at least to me feels like people are less friendly and social in general since the pandemic.
LizardEnthusiast69@reddit
lol funny you consider the customer service in usa something notable. i prefer the no frill attitudes in EU
Tardislass@reddit
Sorry but my German friends keep telling me how Germany has declined as well as do my British friends. Everything has gotten worse in the world. However IMO, Americans always have a maybe misplaced optimism the country can do better. Germans mainly grumble and tut and keep the same government.
All places have been in decline and economically, Europe has faired far worse. Love Europe but as a handicapped person, I am treated much better here in the US. Europe is still pretty discriminatory based on race and disability. IMHO. And I actually own my own house here in the states something I could never do in Europe.
GoSeigen@reddit
Relocated to France and feel the same. It's not even so much that things are getting worse (ok people are way more polarized and prices are sky high) but things you don't even realize suck until you see there can be a better way like car dependency and tipping culture.
katietheplantlady@reddit
We moved to the Germany and then the Netherlands since 2017 and feel the same way and hear the same thing from family and friends back home.
the-czechxican@reddit
America is better for the working years. Europe is way more affordable to retire in. That is for sure
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
Way more affordable in what way? Both have high and low rents, but it seems like i get more for the same price in USA. In USA i pay zero income tax and pay $14/month for great health insurance. Groceries, cars, electronics all cheaper in USA.
gbeaglez@reddit
How are you paying no income tax? Unemployed, working under the table, trust fund from rich parents?
Also groceries in california cost 5x what they do in eastern Europe as an example.
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
Read again. We are talking about retirement.
You cherry pick the most expensive part of america and cheapest part of europe to try and make your point? Not very useful. I doubt its true either. What exactly is costing you 5x in California? I doubt you can even find a single item eastern european specialty import which is 5x.
Letzgirl@reddit
Actually groceries are not cheaper in the USA. I live in Luxembourg and having gone back to the East and West Coast of the US recently, i for sure pay less for my groceries and they are healthier too.
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
I haven't been to every city in Europe, but i find it very difficult to believe Luxembourg has cheaper groceries than USA with the huge farms and cheap gas there. How much are 12 eggs and a gallon of milk?
Healthier? What are you basing that on?
Letzgirl@reddit
Have you lived in Europe at all or are you just basing your information on visiting Europe?
Absolutely the food is healthier - less sugar (corn syrup not added to everything), lots of ingredients that are routinely added to foods in the US are banned in the EU and foods are typically made with ingredients you don’t need a phd to read. Bread: flour, water, yeast, salt
people tend to eat less processed food then the US and are thinner as well (less obesity unless it’s the UK).
i buy a dozen eggs for €2.49 and they are typically less then 200 miles from the source.
Luxembourg has lots of huge farms and the majority of my food comes Luxembourg, France and Belgium. People tend to eat seasonally so we aren’t importing much food from half way around the world to try and eat strawberries in January.
we had less inflation issues in the past few years then the US.
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
Have you been to USA?
We also have cheap, healthy, seasonal produce and bread without preservatives. Even Walmart has all of that.
Its an odd take to try and spin your lack of choices into a positive thing. Maybe they can create a country for you where you pay even higher taxes and the govt sends each citizen a bag of nutrient powder that is perfectly balanced for them. Everyone will be even healthier and have even less choices.
the-czechxican@reddit
More affordable as in care for seniors and way of life for seniors. The American system of healthcare is the capitalism system; as long as you have the most money, you will have the best care. After getting my parents in senior living in Texas, you realize how terrible the senior care model is for every one here. Compared to Japan, Africa and many parts of Europe, we do not respect seniors in America. My father wanted to stay in his house, was a military officer for 25 yrs, a veteran of Vietnam, and his care was still going to be over 14k a month. Thanks for nothing VA benefits. All the money he saved up he would have to burn through to get crappy care in Medicaid in a state facility.
This doesn't happen in many other countries. USA Veterans and all seniors deserve better than a healthcare system catered to those under 40.
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
Ya he will have to spend down his savings first, but then Medicaid/Medicare kicks in and covers 100% room, food, nursing, drugs etc. You mentioned many other countries are better? Can you name one and also mention the tax rates there?
the-czechxican@reddit
Equador, Mexico, Portugal, Philippines to name a few. There are many that have favorable tax rate, for non citizens even better for dual citizens. Tax rates compared to room/board/care/ food can all be pretty favorable in many SA counties and in Europe: Portugal and many Central Euro/East Euro countries that are not tourist traps, the taxes and COL is favorable to US dollar.
johnsue30@reddit
horrible take. Some states have no income tax. No one paying $14 a month for insurance has good insurance.
OddSaltyHighway@reddit
What is your point about state income tax?
Sounds like you dont know anything about afordable care act subsidies and copay subsidies. Some of the best insurance coverage anywhere.
CariocaVida@reddit
The idea is: Benefit from low income taxes while working in the US, then retire in a european country with robust social ammenities, afforded by the higher income taxes imposed on those earning into their economy
all_u_need_is_cheese@reddit
I would have said the opposite. Amazing work life balance here in Norway at least. Whereas all my American friends are working 60 hour weeks - almost twice as many hours per week as I work. And their qualify of life is the same or worse than mine. I also have two kids and most of them can’t afford kids. But most stuff (like food, clothes, cars) in the US is cheaper. The math would likely be totally different comparing like, Romania or Greece to the US though.
the-czechxican@reddit
Scandinavian countries have it best from what I know. Quality of life, work life balance, healthcare and relative affordability is all tops there, right? PLUS- seems like everyone there is supportive and UNDERSTANDING of the government model, which America never is. I still hear that job market and tech are still tops in USA, but I would put quality of life better than newest big screen TV any day of my life!
all_u_need_is_cheese@reddit
True, Europe is not a monolith. So it’s hard to make sweeping statements about Europe. And the US is also so diverse and has shockingly different rules from state to state - so really, hard to compare the two. But yes, quality of life here is great, I can’t complain at all. Goods can be quite expensive, but wages compensate in most cases.
the-czechxican@reddit
Does anyone have dual citizenship? I am American considering dual for either Poland or Czechia (family lineage in both) and I am considering retirement in either country, bc, as I stated earlier, I want better quality of life, and affordable senior care
all_u_need_is_cheese@reddit
I do and so do my kids. I got it from living here for long enough and applying, not from ancestry/family ties. But yeah if you’re eligible I’d go for it, nothing to lose really! Good luck. 😊
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
The US is better if you're at minimum upper middle class.
Europe is better for everyone else.
Aromatic_Mammoth_464@reddit
How has the US been improving? And Europe not? I’d love to hear your point?
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
Once DJT is gone, things will improve dramatically in the states
New-Perspective8617@reddit
You know what has changed in the US since 2020? Lol Trump lost office. If it feels like the country had an up turn, that’s probably why!
TheGoldenGooch@reddit
And would have been FAR MORE anxious and divided had Trump won in 2020. Biden inherited maybe one of the worst situations possible, with a global pandemic and a completely wrecked Washington. All things considered, it could have been much worse, and we actually have hope to do much better
Bmwrider_1089@reddit
The only up turn since 2020 are prices on everything but no no lie to yourself
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
I mean that's a flat out lie that anyone with Google can see. So I'm not sure who you think you're convincing.
But maybe if you don't like high prices, you shouldn't vote for the guy who had his fed print 20% of the currency in circulation during the last year of his presidency.
Bmwrider_1089@reddit
I don't need to google my life experience and changes I've witnessed around me since 2020 lol, and everyone I know feels the same.
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
That's called an "anecdote", and if you'd ever taken a statistics class you'd know it's worthless. lol
Bmwrider_1089@reddit
Stats show everything is more expenisve regardless
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
Tell me you don't understand how inflation works without telling me.
jeditech23@reddit
He does not get enough credit for that. Biden is the best president of my lifetime
New-Perspective8617@reddit
Agreed!
Bmwrider_1089@reddit
Our country has been on a down turn since 2020 lmao do you even live in America??
Bmwrider_1089@reddit
The only up turn since 2020 are prices on everything but no no lie to yourself
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Ah yes, rampant inflation, unraveling social cohesion, deconstructed national identity and a weak global presence. Pure winning
Blackberryy@reddit
Nationalism is not a flex bro. Unless you look to North Korea as some sort of example. And I can’t think of anything less cohesive than what Dumpster and his followers promote - unless you count the guys in hoods as cohesive?
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
The lovely sound of a luxury privileged belief from someone who takes what is for granted, and thinks a utopian future is what can be, if we’re unburdened by what was. Gotta love it.
Blackberryy@reddit
I feel so bad for you, truly. That you think equality, and rights, healthcare, and some modicum of dignity and morality = utopia. Your diaper wearing rapist seditionist Donald Trump would throw you in a pit and piss on you if you were in his way. For someone who served, it’s sad that you’re enabling someone who is not about service or this country - he’s about himself. His reasons for running again are financial and attempting to save his ass. He does not care about your affordable housing, care, fair wages, or your VA benefits. You’re for your oppressor.
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Equality is achieved by enabled merit, not an unresolvable forever fixation of divisive dehumanization
Rights are tied to self reliance and self determination, not by giving power to some power hungry
Dignity and morality are tied to having a cohesive healthy identity,’not to some set of parasitic dogmas that feed on giving mentally ill people a direction to vent their anger at
You are for creating an oppressor and a power center, I am against there being a power center
We are not the same
peonyowl@reddit
Communism is not a flex. Unless you look to N Korea as some sort of example
clybourn@reddit
Correct
peonyowl@reddit
I know, these people live in delusional echo chamber, they literally just fantasize and put it on reddit. I welcome the down votes
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Yea it’s more or less the NPC meme come to life
SweetAlyssumm@reddit
Inflation is not "rampant" in the US. You can look it up. We do not have a weak global presence- that is pure Euro-copium. The dollar is the strongest global currency, we have given billions militarily to Ukraine (for a country that is not in our backyard), Biden was instrumental in forming that alliance, and Harris will continue to be.
Perhaps you have not kept up with our election news. It's electrifying. Check it out for "national identity" in particular. We had four sucky years of Trump but he's on the way out. Biden accomplished a great deal during his Presidency and he's not done yet.
We still have the same percentage of home ownership, 66%, we have had since 1979.
Our media is not what it once was. That is disappointing. But with the internet (which we invented), we communicate and collaborate and share information.
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
Biden is a corrupt dementia patient who has been a pathetic divisive embarrassment. The multiple wars sparked by bad actors is directly correlated to a weakened US projection of strength. The US dollar is the global reserves currency largely due to the petrodollar dynamic, and under Joe’s “leadership”, Saudi Arabia made a historic shift to now trade oil in other currencies, as another example of a historic failure
The “electrifying” excitement is a pure fabrication- it’s actually really amazing to see what social engineering can do with a low charisma individual who has accomplished nothing and had terrible polling numbers until 3 weeks ago. She’s like a diet off brand soda- zero calories, zero nutrition, bad taste.. but instantly visible through well orchestrated marketing
sjplep@reddit
(The Internet in its earliest forms was created by the DoD, but the Web was created in CERN by an Englishman).
Recent election news is encouraging but the radicalisation of the Republican Party - who still run the Supreme Court and will return to power in time as the clock turns - is worrying as well. As is rightwing populism in Europe of course.
SweetAlyssumm@reddit
I am well aware of who created the Web and thank him for it. But the much more radical and fundamental idea of an internet came out of the US military.
I think Harris will win and will give a big boost to progressive agendas everywhere. Still, a lot of work remains to be done for her victory. It is worrying how easy it is for people to fall for authoritarian propaganda.
Kritika1717@reddit
The US is a shit show through and through.
jester_bland@reddit
unraveling social cohesion, deconstructed national identity and a weak global presence.
lol, wat? We never had social cohesion, my guy. Only if you were White, Christian and affluent. Everything else was meted out by our corporate overlords. National Identity was pure shit too. Weak global presence? We can literally reach out and touch any nation in the world, at any time, with apocalyptic force.
clybourn@reddit
And wats breaking out.
AlbaMcAlba@reddit
Neither party is competent but one is more incompetent than the other and the same is true for Europe pretty much.
coldjoggings@reddit
Another reminder that inflation has been a global issue and the US has faired better than peer countries in both the peak and the return to near normal levels while maintaining an incredibly healthy economy with low unemployment.
The problems facing the modern US are not unique to it. That is to discount our issues, but it’s important to acknowledge the context, and work towards an incremental solution bc blowing up the world would undoubtedly make things worse
Blackberryy@reddit
Nationalism is not a flex bro. Unless you look to North Korea as some sort of example. And I can’t think of anything less cohesive then what Dumpster and his followers promote - unless you count the guys in hoods as cohesive?
Kritika1717@reddit
Kamala is no gift to the US. I can’t wait for 2028 to hopefully have some sane people in the running.
SatoshiThaGod@reddit
I would say mainly economically. In 2008 the EU’s economy was quite a bit larger than the American one. Today the US is 50% larger.
And most growth in Europe is happening in the East where they’re catching up after 20th century communism; Western Europe has had almost 20 years of economic stagnation. To this day Italy’s economy is smaller than it was before the GFC, for example.
fetusbucket69@reddit
What’s crazy about these stats tho is that most of that new wealth is never touched by the 99%. The US has this amazing economic growth on paper while homelessness rose 12% across the country last year.
I was actually out of the country for most of 2023, and upon return in 2024 I felt the decline was palpable. There were noticiable more homeless people on the streets and on average seemed to be in worse shape. Security was increased at stores I regularly visited. Increasingly dystopian while much of Europe may not grow on paper but appears relatively stable by other metrics and the “look test”
HVP2019@reddit
Europe has huge areas where “look” tests are rarely performed by outsiders, for very obvious reasons.
If things will go well, “restoration” of those massive areas will be very costly for the rest of Europe.
If this will not go well, increased security/military spending and other things related to having big hostile force as direct neighbor will… also be costly for the rest of Europe.
US also spends a lot of resources on those “European” issues but for US addressing those issues is “optional”, and can be de-prioritized at any moment.
The same cannot be said about Europe.
fetusbucket69@reddit
What exactly are you saying here? That the US gets to just decide at their whim whether Russia takes over the entirety of Europe.
Absolutely ridiculous. Decades of the US consistently taking the option to shit on themselves and give billions to defense contractors and corrupt regimes abroad as opposed to rebuilding infrastructure, getting people off the streets, healthcare, feeding people is catching up.
Even with their relatively minuscule budgets many “poor” European countries manage to provide better government services for these basic needs. That’s part of why there is visibly more rot in major American cities.
HVP2019@reddit
English isn’t my native language so maybe you misunderstood me, so I can clarify: “No I don’t believe US gets to decide at whim…”
And I am not speaking only about Russia here either, there are other areas besides Russia that are problematic politically (Belarus), economically ( Moldova), that needs to be rebuilt ( Ukraine).
Simco_@reddit
There is not a chance anyone who thinks of the entire US and the entirety of Europe as single things has thought through their opinion.
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
We have to speak in generalizations or we would spend our lives describing the nitpicky details.
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
It’s just a feeling based on personal experience. That’s why I wanted to see what other people think and if it’s just me.
dullllbulb@reddit
Why would this be so downvoted…
JaneErrrr@reddit
I would assume it’s because OP is not explaining why they feel the US is improving
Nerioner@reddit
Exactly that for me. I mean of course it is subjective and personal but still even after questions there is just still nothing of the substance so we still can't compare it to our experiences
dullllbulb@reddit
He did say it was based on a feeling which seems fair lol ¯_(ツ)_/¯
Nerioner@reddit
Yea, its not a big deal but worth that muscle work to downvote 😅
dullllbulb@reddit
Oh wow I don’t take Reddit that seriously hahaha
Jdgarza96@reddit
Please continue to live your life like that. It’s much healthier than pretending upvotes and downvotes matter at all.
dullllbulb@reddit
Thank you — agreed :)
Dependent_Respect_46@reddit
Because reddit... someday you'll understand. It's compromised
dullllbulb@reddit
Yes I did notice it’s primarily overrun by humans
Dependent_Respect_46@reddit
After majority of Reddit was sold off there has been a clear and obvious capture of upvotes down votes and posts and comments getting removed that go against "the narrative"
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
People are angry about this post for some reason
napalmtree13@reddit
I think it’s more that, because you’re being vague, people are suspicious that this is bait of some kind.
Dependent_Respect_46@reddit
Welcome to reddit!
dullllbulb@reddit
I’m realizing this the more I read. Weird!
Well if you want my two cents, I live in Baltimore and it’s been improving a lot here since Covid. Things feel way more fun lately because people are actively behaving happy and nicer, and have been out and about more than I’ve ever seen especially in the summertime. Also, really great things will be happening within the next few years like a brand new beach at the Druid Hill reservoir. It’s going to be incredible.
I went to Europe last year and London was perfect/would live there in a heartbeat. I had serious Paris Syndrome in (obviously) Paris and it felt more like how you described. Pretty boring and grimey, but the Londoners we spoke to had warned us, so, we at least knew that may be the case.
eljuarez99@reddit
Same
Ok-Bag-3611@reddit
The US has been declining. We all know that. The question was about Europe though, and not the US. You can start a discussion about how the US is declining if you'd like.
Wise_Confection348@reddit
Lol. The uS improving. Yea Haiti is improving to
Legitimate-Common256@reddit
You might want to consider what our actions abroad have delivered to the EU. And what parts of the US you find so exciting and dynamic.
Manonemo@reddit
Yes, it is, and it will. All is under control and according to USA plan.. Enjoy last few good years there.
Due-Highlight-7546@reddit
Could you elaborate on this? What plan?
Manonemo@reddit
Seriously? No one notices how Europe does USA bidding? doing what its told and culturally copy pasting USA? Its its extention since end if WWII. All the deals, memberships..(nato, economical, intermational, currency trading in US dollars..).. "globalism..." "freedoms"... Its all just little poke here little poke there to get Europe where USA wants it. Si ce Europe is weak, cant be independent And other choice is? Not any better.. Europe heads in its place.. becoming same garbage like USA. Full of gangs, homeless, unluvable conditions, immigration issues, safety issues, but hey, full freedom to change gender on whim.
Efitelicht@reddit
Yes, you are crazy (joking). The US has improved a lot since pandemic on economic data because of the developments in Tech. If you scrap that out the US is just similar to Eurozone and maybe even worse depending where you look. From a social point of view I think the US is still doing poorly vs Europe in terms of health benefits, schooling, social cohesion, etc. If you are born in a developed European country and you poor, than your chances to get into the middle class are higher than in the US because of cheap education and social benefits. The US is a good country for millionaires, entrepreneurs, or whoever wants to make more money than they currently have.
ProblemForeign7102@reddit
Yeah I do feel this way...certainly economically, the EU is doing much worse than the US. And demographically, the situation is also worse in the vast majority of EU countries compared to the US and Canada...
The things that Western Europe has that are considered a big advantage over the US (welfare state, good public transport etc.) all depend on a strong economy which creates enough surplus to finance it, and with the current state of the economy and the worse future outlook for Europe compared to basically anywhere else on the planet in terms of economic growth, I doubt that the welfare state etc. is really sustainable long-term...and I do want Europe to succeed as an European myself, but unfortunately the situation here is not nearly as rosy as most of Reddit would make you believe...
Keywi1@reddit
I agree with this actually, and the signs are already there such as the continuously increasing retirement age.
A weaker economy can still sustain a welfare state and it does happen in some countries, but it really depends on demographics and birth rates. Europe has an extremely low birth rate and we will see the impact of this soon I think.
Here in the U.K. at least, let’s just say benefits are always being cut but not really being increased in most cases.
Psychological-Air-84@reddit
I visited Philly post-pandemic… I haven’t seen any place in Europe in such «decline» as that.
My flabbers were ghasted to say the least.
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
Likely because when you're visiting Europe, you're not randomly visiting some of the most downtrodden cities.
Psychological-Air-84@reddit
Im European, so visiting american towns wasn’t supposed to be visiting downtrodden cities :(
(Studied in Boston, and in London. Im Norwegian).
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
Philly is kind of a strange choice for a vacation.
Psychological-Air-84@reddit
It was a weekend trip, and its a very historic city so its not really an odd choice.
alek_sm@reddit
Some parts of Europe might be run down but they’ve got nothing on the zombie apocalypse happening in many US cities. Hi Seattle 👋
LizP1959@reddit
Hi San Francisco. Hi LA (in a different way) and yes I dare and hate to say so because I loved this city Hi NYC.
Psychological-Air-84@reddit
Exactly! I was shocked seeing these «real life zombies» all over centrum of Philly! I hadn’t heard of it beforehand so it kinda felt like I woke up in a zombie movie.
BrandonLouis527@reddit
I lived in Philly 11 years ago for a year. Moved back to Tx until 3 years ago when my husband and I came back to Philly. You couldn’t be more correct. It used to be a quirky, gritty, and fun place to live with generally nice people. Now people are awful. Driving norms rival what I’ve seen in developing countries and there seems to be a huge decline in respect for fellow people. It’s super sad and just incredible to live through. I cannot wait to get out of here and get back to New England, where my husband is from and life is generally much more peaceful. Perfect? Far from it. NE has a lot of shit to work out, but aside from Massholes in Boston, people are nicer there, they value community and inherent worth of humans, etc.
JiminsJams_23@reddit
I'm trying to get out of Killadelphia to Germany. I have family in Boston that wanted me to move over there, and I have family in Dallas that said the same- but they all hustle too much. Hustle culture until they die, all of my older family in Boston have high blood pressure. I can't underscore enough what people said above about the effect even a little piece of mind has on your life expectancy and quality of life. Expats that move to places like Costa Rica pretty much never do it for the salary.
If it's not racism, it's tribalism, so that will be everywhere... We pay out our paychecks here too for healthcare AND half of our stuff doesn't get covered anyway. Just want to be able to worry and live and have that be respected. Here you get spit on if you don't live to work for the "family" company. Thet laugh at Japan, Korea, and China but the US exported this hyper capitalist culture there.
xiayueze@reddit
Living in the USA during the pandemic, I felt the complete opposite way. Maybe it’s just a case of grass is greener and needing a change of scenery after what we’ve all been through
LizardEnthusiast69@reddit
I cannot comment on europe as i havent even visited in a decade, BUT,
NO WAY Usa is doing better. by what metrics? We've been in a recession for 4 years. Crime in every west coast and left wing city is through the roof. for a decade weve had a really intense political divide. Our education system has never been good. Everyone has debt and is poor. Median home price is 400k in the usa, while wages stagnate. We have elections in 4 months, and there was just an assassination attempt on our former president, the USA is meddling with two major foreign wars AGAIN. There is a big immigration issue as well.
ThalonGauss@reddit
Not sure where you see the US improving, I feel like it is dramatically declining, I left that sack of shit for a reason.
PrettyinPerpignan@reddit
What part of Europe did you visit? You’re comparing a place with many countries to one single country. Also several places in the US can be dirty while places in Europe can be very clean. Go outside the big cities and see how the locals live. You’re basing your opinion on a short visit which doesn’t equate to actually living somewhere
johndutton80@reddit
North Americans (and English-speaking people in general) are open, friendly to each other, pragmatic, they don't point the finger at you if you try something new and fail. Yes, maybe they are "fake friendly", but I still prefer this to the "honest rudeness" of certain European "cultures". It also makes making business much simpler.
MethyleneBlueEnjoyer@reddit
No, what you saw was what over a decade of being hammered by non-stop austerity does to a place.
It now seems completely absurd, but around the time of the GFC and before the European banking/debt crisis kicked off around 2009-2010, it wasn't even a far-out weird Euronationalist position to assume that the European economnic system was on its way to defeat the American one and conquer the world. It was one of the realistic options for things to play out at the time as far as very serious people were concerned.
Then, Europe chose austerity and America chose to prop up the markets by essentially giving away money. You can pinpoint where this happens on a graph of economic growth, because it's where Europe starts flatlining for well over a decade while American growth blasts off like a rocket. And dead economies make for dead countries.
Argentina4Ever@reddit
Excessive austerity and closed mindness are part of the reasons why Germany is performing so poorly nowadays, with the recession ghost over their shoulders.
Professional-Pea2831@reddit
From all nations I meet Germans are the most entitled. Italians understand they are lazy. The Chinese understand they have communist party. Japanese understand they are getting older.
But Germans think they are above everyone. Two American Presidents warmed them. Obama with public spending is needed for the growth of the economy. And Trump - don't put your energy policy in the hand of the dictator.
How German diplomats laughed at Trump. Imagine laughing like clowns to the president of the strongest country in the United Nation. Germans are clowns
johndutton80@reddit
They always want to be right, even when it's clear they are not, and believe in bs like homeopathy, "cold weather gives you a cold", or "microwaved food contains radiations and will kill you" (I had so-called "well educated" Germans telling me this crap).
They are now (rightfully) paying a price for their short-sightedness.
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
To be fair Trump was a clown to be laughed at. He just happened to get this one thing right.
Professional-Pea2831@reddit
They laughed at the American president, who appeared to be Trump. And after Putin already took Crimea. Not very smart.
German diplomats are clowns. They failed in Ukraine
jade09060102@reddit
and choosing to shutdown nuclear and get itself hooked on Russian gas
ryandiy@reddit
yeah, shutting down nuclear was beyond stupid. Nice "own goal" there, Germany.
alittledanger@reddit
In Obama’s most recent book, IIRC he talked about warning European leaders about austerity and told them it would make their economic situation worse.
I think he turned out to be right.
HumanityFirstTheory@reddit
Also because their energy was cut off (Russia) and now their manufacturing sector is powered by expensive Norwegian or American LNG imports which are significantly more expensive than what they were paying for Russian energy, so German manufacturing can no longer compete with China or the globe. Meanwhile China is getting access to extremely cheap Russian energy which allows them to dominate in price and increase margins.
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
There's a lot more to it than just austerity.
Europe decided to heavily regulate technology, technology investment, and continues to see things like engineering as a cost center, doing things like paying engineers 1/3 of what they make in the US.
As a result they've produced zero fortune 500 technology companies in the last 25 years while the US has 100.
Anyone with the talent, skills, and ambition to start a technology company moves to the US and gets VC investment there.
MethyleneBlueEnjoyer@reddit
This isn't new though. As you said, been at least 25 years, in reality much longer. OP is talking about the past decade or so specifically, and the very specific reason for a sharp decline relative to the US from ca. 2010 onward is austerity.
Quirky-Camera5124@reddit
the victory of keynsian economics
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
Keynesian economics requires belt tightening during good times. No one has ever tried it, so it is still as yet an unproven theory.
UndervaluedGG@reddit
temporary victory, until the debts come due
SpeakCodeToMe@reddit
And yet anyone serious buys military equipment made entirely in the US. Interesting how we maintain the ability to manufacture the most cutting edge advanced pieces of technology in the world while having a dead manufacturing industry isn't it? 🙄
Techters@reddit
Yes, that's what it looks like now. The tax breaks in place in Germany though are preventing the runaway debt service to GDP the US is experiencing, and Germany is more organized about immigration then in the US where they know they need more workers but politics mean they are flooded onto the streets by the hundreds on thousands. There are very clear benefits to not having the large pendulum swings and boom and bust cycles that the US goes through, and on their next bust I think the attitude about European stagnation will look nice in comparison.
ButMuhNarrative@reddit
I backpacked for 7 months in Europe winter 2015/2016. Tell me more about this organized immigration Germany mastered?
Cuz I remember hundreds of thousands of refugees sleeping rough and being beaten by border guards as they traversed the Balkans, who were not consulted before Merkel unilaterally welcomed, what? 2 million into Germany and millions more shotgunned across the continent?
That was the most Disorganized Shitshow I ever saw from a western state government until Covid-19. It made WMD’s Iraq look well thought out and planned!!!
SukiKabuki@reddit
Don’t forget people dying on the life boats and the countless bodies washed on EU shores. I lived in Germany during this time and it was a phenomenal shit show indeed.
Expert-Work-7784@reddit
I lived right at the austrian border (literally right behind my house back than) of one of the main entry points to Germany at that time. Up to 10.000 a day in a city with a population of 50.000. It was insane, yes. But surprisingly organized. It felt weird back than so see so much state structure and forces (due to usually open borders which we would often cross for a walk). And to end up regularly in check points on the way home (my city district was even locked off for a couple days in the sense that only people who lived there could enter. Very tiny streets and lots of busses had to pass plus keeping nosy people away). But it somehow worked.
There is a reason why Germany differentiates so much between regular migration and asylum and you should be able to figure out why due to German history. Nobody should be denied help. If the asylum process itself is effecient enough is another topic. But everyone has the right to ask for it and help has to be offered first before questions are being asked. Regular migration is an insane paper war and very planned trough.
hudibrastic@reddit
Lol, it funny how the continent with the most social/progressive policies somehow turns into a big austerity example when things turn not the way that progressists think they would
4-aminobenzaldehyde@reddit
I don’t want to sound like an asshole here, but truly, I want to know who told you the US is getting better. That could not be farther from the truth. As an American I don’t know what things are like in Europe but I’m certain you would be shocked at how much this country is declining.
Its-a-bro-life@reddit
Europe is enormous with so much variety. If someone can't find a place to be happy in Europe then they'll likely never be happy anywhere.
xinit@reddit
Low effort post for high drama. So fucking boring.
MistajamT@reddit
The same could be said about Canada. Nonetheless, Europe is squeezed by higher energy price, two wars at its borders, and social unrest. I feel the entire Western world doubt itself. People are scared of the future but as u/VikDamnedLee said it, it is part of every economic cycles. Europe is in downturn moment and may bounced back.
fangaas@reddit
I don't understand the question, Europe is a large collection of different countries that need to be looked at independently. Say, Netherlands, they are on the peak of futurism and certainly aren't declining, while the UK has been going downhill due to Brexit and impending recession.
Comparing the US and the entirety of Europe as a whole doesn't make any sense.
Friendly-Analysis767@reddit
The future belongs to Asia, particularly China. I bet most of the stuff you own was made in China. Europe no longer produces anything much, especially not computer electronics so it has become an also ran continent relying on tourism and banking for money. Athens and Bucharest despite the EU money look like third world cities, however, Budapest, Bratislava and Sofia have improved a lot. Most Western and Northern European cities like Paris, London, Berlin, Marseille, Vienna, Malmo, Munich and Stockholm are unsafe.
DatingYella@reddit
Where are you getting the sense that the US is a dynamic place? Do you live in a major city like NYC or SF or work in a developing field like tech?
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
Yes 😂
DatingYella@reddit
To both? lol
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
Lol yes. But I’m not from here originally.
DatingYella@reddit
Well that kind of explains the dynamic part. If you're in the software sector the US has access to the highest salaries in the world and the most investment. The EU by comparison has almost no national champions outside of SAP... and ASML
The people you're surrounded by are also likely some of the most talented in the world.
JazzyPurplePlatypus@reddit
In which countries in Europe and which states in the USA did you notice this?
Have you noticed any changes in how people behaved in these places?
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
I’m from a rural part of one of the poorest states in the US. In the past few years it seems like people are suddenly better off. You can even see it in their physical appearance. People are taking better care of their teeth, they’re in shape, they’re wearing brands like Lululemon etc when they used to be mostly obese and showing up to Walmart in pajamas.
Countries I’ve visited recently in Europe: Denmark, the UK, Germany, Belgium, France. I’ve noticed that people there seem angrier than they used to and that it doesn’t feel as socially cohesive as it used to.
argjwel@reddit
wow people downvoting a sincere report. Yeah, your anedotal evidence may be contrary to reality and data. But you don't deserve a downvite, jesus fucking reddit
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
Thank you
potatoworldwide@reddit
I’m in Denmark right now for vacation. I was just telling my wife I don’t understand how the richest country on earth cannot figure out how to manage a city. Virtually every aspect of Copenhagen is markedly better than any American city I’ve ever been to or lived in.
Alostcord@reddit
Are they the people who have always lived there..or are they people who moved to the area because they retired or now WFH and it’s more affordable than where they came from?
I’m trying to figure out how you correlate your first statement about your rural town in a poor state to your experience on visiting some of the listed countries. Doesn’t seem like you are using the same measuring stick.
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
They’re the young people living there. I’ve noticed the young generations are doing better. But again this is all anecdotal, and it could just be a social media/TikTok effect that’s causing them to get in shape and buy expensive brands
itsnobigthing@reddit
Obesity is absolutely not on the decline in the US. If your small town is bucking that trend you need to get on the phone to the CDC or something quick, because you must have magic water
Falafel80@reddit
Maybe the area is being gentrified
BlueNets@reddit
lol the transplants are coming to your state. Or maybe u are hanging in more wealthy areas now that u are older
deVliegendeTexan@reddit
Man. I’m from a rural east Texas county. I’ve been living in the Netherlands for 7 years now and back in May I went back home to east Texas.
Compared to NL, my home town is basically a shithole at the bottom of a shithole at the bottom of a well used latrine. I felt like I’d stepped back into the 1920s. It was even worse than I’d remembered it. I’d kind of assumed I had rose colored glasses on, that my hometown couldn’t really have been that bad. But if anything, it was even worse.
Agitated_Carry7778@reddit
But why are you planning on going back? (Genuine curiosity after reading such language haha)
deVliegendeTexan@reddit
I went back just for a couple of weeks for a wedding. I did not move back.
Silent_Yesterday1582@reddit
As a Dane I would say I have not experienced, any form of decline in our country over the last decade.
argjwel@reddit
I'm from Latam and I think people in the first world are biased af.
Recency bias from the pandemics bringing food and energy prices spikes and flashbacks from the 2008 crisis made people very anxious and with the "vibesession" stuck in their minds.
The world is very far from perfect, but I think all democratic countries are improving somehow, and despite some volatile changes, most people are doing just fine.
Darthlentils@reddit
I don't think so. Lots of stuff got worse post pandemic, but have you seen the US? I don't see that as very different. Yes the US has very economically dynamic areas, but its underbelly is frankly terrifying.
To be transparent, I'm a bit tired of the declinist attitudes online. It's like a millenary cult predicting the end of the world. Europe (not sure which nations you are referring too) is offering in general a very high quality of life, good healthcare, long life expectancy, good food, good infrastructure and safe.
For example, I live in Spain. If you spend too much time online, it's a shitshow with corrupt politicians, illegal immigrants, low wages, Barcelona is a warzone, all that crap.... If you actually go outside, it's a great place to live: great cities, walkable, super safe, affordable, great cultural life, stunning landscapes.
Once you turn off social media (including Youtube) and look around you, you migh find out that things are not as bad as the clickbait suggest.
HVP2019@reddit
Some countries in Eastern Europe are improving politically and economically and others not so much: Moldova, Belarus besides obvious Ukraine.
Fidolina@reddit
There is no such a place that is declining so rapidly as US.
FruitFlavor12@reddit
The US blew up the Nordstream pipelines, critical European energy infrastructure, in order to sell American LNG to Europe at 5x the price or more: win/win situation for USA corporations and oil companies (not the 99%) and a losing situation for us Europeans, whose governments have thrown us and our economies under the bus for US hegemonic interests. The result has been crippling energy prices for average people, and huge swaths of industrial production shutting down across Europe.
Cara_Bina@reddit
I'm a Brit in the USA, and because of Project 2025, AKA Agenda 47, I'm planning to move back to the UK within a year. Even if Trump loses, the Right and the Heritage Foundation have been building toward Project 2025 for over 40 years (see doc. Bad Faith), which means it's still a goal.
I'm on SSDI (Disability) that I paid into, but they plan on getting rid of Social Security, Medicare, SNAP, CHIP and so much more. People who can get pregnant are more regulated than assault weapons, and currently one out of three cannot access abortion care, even if their life is on the line.
We all have our perceptions of what's important, and although I'd love to stay and fight, my becoming homeless and with no healthcare is not something I'm up for, at this stage in my life. (I'm 57). As I'm still a British citizen, I can re-establish residency after living there a couple of years, and hey, even if I become homeless, there's free healthcare! As I rely on life saving meds, this is extremely important to me.
Here's an interesting look at how various countries rate around the world. Last I checked, the UK was around 34 and America was down to 132. A lot of people in this country think Africa is a terrible and dangerous place, and don't even realise there are 54 countries in the continent. There are only seven of them that rate worse that the States. Just food for thought:
https://www.visionofhumanity.org/maps/#/
Marlenawrites@reddit
Not all countries are declining. I know for sure Romania is going down hill economically speaking (the inflation is sky high). The Nordic countries don't look too bad, I think they're OK. But you won't get rich or successful in any Nordic country; businesses expenses and taxes are higher there than in the US.
The_whimsical1@reddit
I have gone back and forth between the US and Europe my whole life; spent my teens in Europe and in the US, my college years in Europe and the US, owned property in Europe and the US, and now live in Europe (since 2017) although my business is in the US. I feel the US has been in straight decline now for decades, while the European Union just gets better and better. I used to feel it was a step up to return to the US (in terms of consumer goods, standard of living, and general well-being) even though Europe was more charming, had better high end food, and was more chill.
Europe remains more chill, more charming, and with vastly superior restaurants. But the general lifestyle of Europe (Germany, Spain, France, Portugal, and parts of central Europe) is just so much better now. I have better dentistry in Europe, better medical care (more personal), cheaper housing, and better consumer goods. The only place the US retains a slight advantage is tech; my first stop in Cambridge when I am back stateside is usually Microcenter. (The Apple store is a wash, financially.) So my view is that Europe has really been getting a lot better, while the US is really going through a rough patch. I think people in the US work too hard, hustle all the time, and don't get rewarded very well. Just my opinion.
CatInSkiathos@reddit
My dude, this is the hack. You are not living the 'standard' life that most Europeans are. You are living the dream. American income, European expenses. Of course you feel like life in Europe is 'better'
What if you tried to establish your business in Europe? You would be f*cked so hard with bureaucracy and red tape. You would struggle to establish a client base way more than in the US, and the Euro clients would be far less lucrative than your US clients. (*barring some niche that is a hit in Europe and a flop for the US, or strong Euro network/connections that help you)
I have grown up similarly to you, back and forth between my 'native' country and the US, and definitely agree on the food being better in Europe. Even 'junk' food (souvlaki and fries, for example), just feels 'cleaner' over there. I eat healthy and keep active in the US, but feel worse than I did eating 'junk' in Europe.
P.S. I love Microcenter too!
Marlenawrites@reddit
So you are cheating by paying taxes to the US and not Europe? Who wouldn't want to live like this? Taxes in Europe are very high. Try to live in Finland and pay 40+ percent taxes from an average job. You wouldn't like it.
hudibrastic@reddit
Making money in the US and living in Europe lol
You must be kidding
The_whimsical1@reddit
I am talking about buying tech not earning in tech.
Substantial_Match268@reddit
Well looks like you are geo arbitraging, earn in usd spend in eur, no wonder you love your life, that's not really a typical European experience at all.
ohlongjohnsonohlong@reddit
Yeah, we have a relatively high standard of living in Western Europe but we are definitely declining in terms of GDP PPP and of disposable income compared to the US. We just cannot follow. I can even compare my salary to my relatives in California.
torticaa@reddit
Romania, Poland and Serbia are booming
erejum31@reddit
I think what you're seeing is the result of a decade+ of financial crises, austerity, an unprecedented migration crisis, and a rapidly deteriorating climate that is upending many legacy industries as well as affecting people's physical and mental health. Throw in the global brain rot caused by the dominance of out-of-control social media and the constant uncertainty and fear for the future that all of the above causes, and you have most of your answer.
norseraven39@reddit
If you consider steadily increasing if not spiking rates of unaliving, record inflation, near impossible COLA, wage death (can't call it stagnant anymore it's just not moving), record homeless, record illnesses (including polio, new measle strains resistant to vaccines and more) and a currently potentially naaty election run coming up progress um I'd like to know what you consider not progress.
Europe is in one of its usual tumble rounds. Unfortunately it is not being aided any with the Ukraine Rus war. Poland has gone from speed bump to teeth, Britain is as usual when voter fraud is discovered using their voice (and pitchforks so to speak) to ensure they aren't going to end up like the US. France is getting well deserved backlash considering the numerous pages saying the Seine was safe and now there's several hospitalized athletes or several on their way to home hospitals. Netherlands are in trouble because they let an SO compete in the Olympics (let ya'll google that it is a doozy). Rest of the countries are working through small political and socio economic shifts which considering it has been nearly 5 yrs since a major pandemic is to be expected.
The average cycle lasts 8 yrs, pandemics can shorten or lengthen. Italy's cycle was extended to 12, but then they had people doing rooftop yoga and other things within 3 months. Few others followed suite.
If you didn't see it before chances were you weren't really paying attention. I'm not being a jerk mind, just a reminder. The US is unfortunately full of "me me me." and while I was raised by an Irish Catholic grandmother she frequently watched the news every night. Especially after September '01.
stack_overflows@reddit
I travel to Europe often but as a tourist. Iv noticed that the cost of everything has nearly doubled since just 2021. I don't think it has the same spark that it did 10 years ago.
I'd blame the war, the pandemic, and a lot of political tension for the downturn.
GrowlingOcelot_4516@reddit
I've had the same impression of quite a few European countries. I have lived in 4 different countries that I revisit regular to see the friends I left there. I can see that the quality of services has declined at the same as the prices went up.
For instance, the train company of Finland, VR, that worked wonders. Now it costs double what it used to be 2 years ago for an app that is filled with bugs, trains that take longer to reach the same destinations, and journeys that get cancelled more often.
Visited France for the olympics, random restaurants asking way too much for a subpar meal. Few years back, you could go to any somewhat decent looking restaurant and get a tasty meal for a good price.
dustmybroom88@reddit
I think the whole world is in a dip - it began before Covid but we are really feeling it now. It’s tied to a constant push for profits over people, high COL and decline of service culture/human interaction.
I hope the pendulum will swing back in my lifetime
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Your objectively and obviously wrong if we are taking about the whole world. Compared to even 20 years ago life quality is globally on average way higher than before, life expectancy is still rising in most countries, healthcare and clean water access was improved drastically as well as the fight against poverty. Not saying everything is perfect and the lasting effects from COVID and the pending climate crisis still poses significant challenges.
But saying the whole world is in a dip is just simply not true.
dustmybroom88@reddit
*You’re
Of course average QoL is rising, and has in the last 100 years. I was referring to COL - cost of living, which has also risen and not in a proportionate way.
The world feels dirtier and messier because it is. Most people have main character syndrome and we don’t employ enough people to clean up our cities. People have lost their sense of both pride and shame in where they live. We have largely lost our “third spaces” (not home, not school/work) and so most public areas feel unwelcoming and transitional.
You can trace a lot of this back to companies beginning to treat people as units, not human beings, in the late 70s and early 80s. A longstanding contract of trust was irrevocably broken. People learned that the corporate world doesn’t care about them, so why should they care in return? As benefits and respect have eroded, people have responded in kind.
Treat people as disposable cogs in a profit making machine, and they will soon act that way.
Mean__MrMustard@reddit
Fully agree with all you said. I just always push against the notion that everything is getting worse, because these achievements against extreme poverty and child-deaths are substantial and don’t get mentioned nearly as much as they should. But I misunderstood your intentions, sorry for that.
I come from a very well off town in Europe and even there you see the same problems you mentioned. Quality of life is still pretty good for most people but the differences between people with great jobs and/or just rich people and the working class is getting more and more extreme.
Lack of consume-free third spaces is a really big problem. But at least some cities are trying to do something against it.
IMO the main problems for US & Europe are two things. The first one surely is corporate greed and the complete uncoupling of productivity of workers and their salaries, which happened a few decades ago. But the second is imo more trickier and directly linked to globalization. More and more countries are catching up (a good thing) and it will be very hard to maintain the same quality of life for the average citizen in the currently rich countries. We don’t like to think about it but many of our comforts are only possible because other people don’t have them.
jeditech23@reddit
Covid created a new guilded age. Middle class and upward mobility were severely diminished. Inflation benefits the upper class and housing became overpriced and securitized by the banks and hedge funds
Feliz69Navidad@reddit
Rich people got a lot richer during that period, they gotta eat too!!
Kritika1717@reddit
This! You described it exactly how I see it. Spot on.
DebitsthenameIwant@reddit
Where are you in the US? Is it a very diverse place - economically amongst other ways? Is the place you lived in in the US a high socioeconomic area? Perhaps that is what caused the contrast.
Kat_kinetic@reddit
This is the best time to be alive in human history in almost every country. We have indoor plumbing.
FlakCannon123@reddit
Mario, is that you?
Gold-Instance1913@reddit
Europe for sure is way less socially cohesive than it used to be. All countries (not only in Europe) are going through a period of low or no understanding and respect for different political options and are demonizing political opposition. That does not build cohesion. People are divided among many lines and view the ones on the other side as idiots of the worst kind.
Economy is not doing well, with a lot of outsourcing and with huge changes due to highly ambitious environmental / emissions goals enforced by the EU that increased costs of living and that are driving the industry out of Europe. There's fewer jobs. There's also huge immigration into European social systems, which is straining the cohesion, as some people want to stop it and some want to support it (of course each group seeing the other as evil enemies). Also EU GDP that used to be higher than US one is now lower.
Just take a look at the UK. I've seen American civil war movie, but after last couple of days I'm starting to image it coming into reality in the UK. There's a character in that movie with rosy glasses, but he's not a nice guy.
atropear@reddit
It probably doesn't help that a pipeline with cheap natural gas was sabotaged only to be substituted with more expensive energy brought from another country.
logit@reddit
I don't think I've ever liked a country/city more the second time I visited. The novelty will have worn off since your visit some time ago. Some European countries have had a horrible decade and a half (southern Europe really suffered in the wake of the financial ceash). Some have absolutely flourished... I read recently that purchasing power adjust income in Poland may soon surpass Japan... that would have been unthinkable a few years ago. Europe really isn't a monolith.
Ok_Tank7588@reddit
This. While I see some places in western Europe struggling, some places in central / eastern europe are developing quickly
ButMuhNarrative@reddit
Slovenia, for example! Felt they live better than most Italians
Starsuponstars@reddit
Very small population is a huge factor in quality of life there
BlueHot808@reddit
The whole world is declining. There’s very very few places you can go that are improving across the board
Attention_WhoreH3@reddit
The USA fares badly if you measure by Master's degrees. Of course, this is one of the soundest measures of employability: most Bachelor's do not prepare students for the workplace Luxembourg has 29%
USA 12%
TheFonz2244@reddit
Europe still has the best cities in the world and it's not even close
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
Without a doubt. How would top 30 vs 30 look
Stockholm,Copenhagen, Helsinki, St petersburg, Moscow, Split, Zagreb, Bordeaux, Bukarest, Budapest, Prague Amsterdam, Berlin, Munich, , Paris, Nice, Monte carlo, Turin, Milano, Rome, Palermo, Florence, Bologna, Madrid, Barcelona, Bilbao, Lisbon, Porto, Zurich, London, Edeinburgh, Vienna. That's 32 cities
What does Usa have ? New york, Chicago and Boston seem like the only cities that everyone likes. The rest is mostly dead glass and steel city centerd, traffic jams and homeless people.
SatoshiThaGod@reddit
London, Paris, Moscow, maybe a couple more. Everywhere else in Europe is rather sleepy and boring, in my opinion.
I used to be very enamored with European cities, and always complained about how American cities are all boring and the same. But after living there for a few years and visiting almost every country in the EU, it was European cities that started all looking the same to me.
Market square, cathedral, 3-6 story contiguous buildings everywhere, perhaps a palace or castle, etc. Everything perfectly frozen in time. It’s nice for tourists, yes, but after a while the novelty wears off.
It’s just my opinion, but I think Europe has very few truly dynamic cities. Most cities practically haven’t changed in centuries. Meanwhile, every time I revisit a city in Canada or the US it seems they’ve built 10 more skyscrapers.
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
Its pretty wild to call Rome, Berlin, Amsterdam, Barcelona, Madrid , Copenhagen etc sleepy and boring. Try a spring saturday night out in the center of Madrid and then do the same in Washington and see what capital that is the most vibrant.
The novelty of be able to walk from square to square, and bar to bar? Go shopping on real shopping streets where different people get together from all over the city? Walking trough a beatiful park a snowy winterday. Walking or bicyceling for 10 minutes to get to work? I would say that its just that practical liveable dynamic enviroment that you never stop appreciating. The enviroment ensures that the time never freeze since it's always new stores,bars, restaurants and people popping up.
hudibrastic@reddit
“from square to square, and bar to bar?” too bad the bars close at 1 am mostly.
Anyway, yes, the novelty of those things wanes off very fast, and are also not unique to Europe.
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
That's true. I believe that parts of Latin america are more like europe than USA is. Mexico city is more like Madrid than any city in USA for exampel. Bogota, Buenos aires, Montevideo are other cities that has that same lifestyle.
hudibrastic@reddit
Amsterdam is the epitome of sleepy and boring
SatoshiThaGod@reddit
I agree European cities are very livable and have a good quality of life. I think that’s different from being dynamic and growing, though.
OP was saying they think Europe is declining while the US is improving. Related to that, I wouldn’t say Europe is declining (at least in absolute terms), but when it comes to the cities, they’re quite stagnant. They’re pretty, but most haven’t changed much since their peak in the 19th century.
Meanwhile, cities in North America and Asia (perhaps because they don’t have all the pretty old architecture to preserve) have kept growing and building. There’s nothing like the density of downtown NYC, Chicago, or Toronto in Europe, and there’s also nothing like Dallas, Atlanta, or Houston (adding millions of people in population in less than a decade) in Europe.
hudibrastic@reddit
I have the same feeling, I remember seeing a video recorded of Amsterdam from early 1900 and my first thought was “jeez, it is exactly the same city”, boring af
Not to mention that even London shuts at 12 am
hudibrastic@reddit
If you like old churches
Big_Old_Tree@reddit
Japan?
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
Only if you are Japanese
Educational_Word_633@reddit
Tokyo is the best city in the world if you are Japanese.
If you dont speak Japanese its still a strong top 3 in my book.
HumanityFirstTheory@reddit
I’ll be honest I’m not a big fan of European cities. I like dynamic cities like Shenzhen, Shanghai, places where you feel the energy.
thelogicofsense@reddit
Cope
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
Not disagreeing with you there
TargetNo7149@reddit
Is still prefer to be poor and dirty in Europe as opposed to the US.
fetusbucket69@reddit
I think the complete opposite. The US is in rapid decline and it’s not even just based on vibes like what you’re saying seems to be.
Homelessness went up 12% in the US in 2023. There are certain cities, like Denver, where you can really notice this. I don’t know what else says decay quite like blocks and blocks of tent cities full of people selling sex and doing IV drugs.
Even in “poor” parts of Europe you aren’t likely to see anything like that. Southern Europe has low salaries etc etc but no downtowns that appear to have been taken over by hordes of homeless people.
The other thing in the US is that everting appears to be getting “hollowed out”. What I mean by that is that everything seems to be lower quality and in lower quantities but somehow for more money. This is especially true for food in the US and not at all in Europe IMO, not on the same level at least.
AlwaysKeepHydrated@reddit
Europe IS declining, I fear this continent will not have any future beyond being a vacation resort for rich Americans and Asians.
Salaries are low, QOL is very high, and there's no reason to achieve professional sucess for many careers, everyone makes more or less the same, so a mediocrity is installed.
I lead a small team of Aerospace engineers making components for aircraft engines (well, not for much longer, I was not rewarded monetarily for this "promotion", so I just said "fuck it, not interested, find someone else to take the stress), and I cringe at everytime I look at ticket prices to visit my family in my home country.
I make airplanes fly, and I can barely afford to fly myself, at 30-something yrs old. If my parents weren't rich, I'd never be able to afford my house in a Tier-3 city, best I could hope for would be a shitty tiny shitbox appartement from the 70's.
Naturally, no one is having children, so what do we do? We import all poor, uneducated garbage we can from 3rld world shitholes, as fast as we can. Then we are very surprised we Pakitowns pup-up all around our major cities.
I see only a dark future ahead for us.
ValueBeautiful2307@reddit
The problem is that a lot of Europeans dont dare to admit this. The high horse syndrome. A lot of Europeans still think they are the best and look down upon the USA.
childofaether@reddit
The actual quality of life is still better in Western and Northern Europe than in America by just about all metrics, including the most simple one being happiness.
EU is certainly on an economic downward slope, but for the general population, US cities are getting harder and harder as well with the same real life problems of home unaffordability, children becoming difficult to afford...etc...
The benefits of the strong US economy are not reaped by most people and the middle class is shrinking like in major European countries.
But the social systems in place, worker rights and other things commonly touted as Europe's big thing, are still there while Americans still deal with the same bullshit on top of the new bullshit. So at the end of the day, everyone is living worse and worse in almost all developed countries, US included, but the actual quality of life remains superior in Europe.
Science_Teecha@reddit
Thank you for saying this. I grew up in the UK and Germany and dream of going back (at least to Germany or adjacent). My life is okay here; I have a nice house and decent job (username) in a blue state. But it’s suburban monotony, my kids will never be able to live anywhere remotely interesting, everything costs a million dollars and I live under the constant fear of going broke.
Do my dream countries have the same problems? Sure, but at least there’s public transportation, beautiful architecture, and countless travel opportunities. If I want to go anywhere out of the US it’s thousands of dollars and months of planning. Traveling inside the US mostly just means going to a different Applebees. 🙄
Coquelicot1004@reddit
Suburbia is pretty much Americana culture. I lived in Southern France a few years, and omg I missed the drive throughs, I cried for joy every time I saw a Starbucks or Ikea bc it reminded me of home, I just wanted to go to Walmart and eat some Chik fil A. Sometimes the European pretentiousness and juxtoposition of homeless against the backdrop of priceless architecture gets wearisome as well.
Science_Teecha@reddit
I guess. It depends on the person. I never use drive throughs, never eat fast food, and get Starbucks like twice a year.
Techters@reddit
Have you seen the US and Canadian subs flooded with people saying they have no mobility, can't buy a starter home, car insurance is as much as a mortgage in some places, and on top kids have to attend school with shooting drills and people smoking fentanyl on the street so people are carrying narcan like it's an EpiPen? Most of the world around is seeing the consequences of wealth inequality and consolidation, all of this happening while more billionaires are created weekly.
Coquelicot1004@reddit
These are all the things that freak out Europeans but don't make the average American blink twice. They push the shootings in the news, and while it does happen and it's devastating, the U.S. is also fucking HUGE and Europeans really fail to realize the size of our country vs. their entire continent. It happens but not as often as the average European seems to believe it does.
jackvismara@reddit
Exactly.
here4geld@reddit
Europeans don't even want to admit that china is consistently doing better than europe in olympics
Party_Plenty_820@reddit
Pretty racist shit here
videki_man@reddit
Opposing immigration is not racism. I'll soon be a British citizen and I think immigration is just way too high here in the UK. There aren't enough houses, aren't enough hospitals, schools, infrastructure, GPs etc.
Many non-White British feel the same.
Elegant-Positive-782@reddit
Any particular point you want to refute? When certain immigrant groups have unemployment levels of >50% it's hard to defend the careless asylum and residence permit granting that has been and is going on in Europe.
Party_Plenty_820@reddit
Good question to ask: why is their unemployment so high. It’s a vicious cycle. Fuck them over bc of racism then point to the manifestations of fucking them over and saying, “see, they’re bums/dangerous/etc.”
Elegant-Positive-782@reddit
The racism of low expectations has had a huge impact on some groups, with very few demands being made and generous welfare payments paid out to them. But it's also not easy to make use of people that do not speak any local language and have no formal education besides maybe elementary school.
If Europe's youth struggles to find jobs, why would it be easy for people with fewer credentials?
BonetaBelle@reddit
Yep. It’s pretty disappointing seeing a bunch of racist shit about immigrants in an expat sub, of all places.
AlwaysKeepHydrated@reddit
Read again dumb-dumb, I'm discriminating based on socioeconomic condition, education and cultural background, not based on skin color 👍🏻👍🏽👍🏿
charleytaylor@reddit
and
Seem contradictory?
kranj7@reddit
In fairness, this also sounds a bit like Canada and some places in the US too.
VilniusHarriers@reddit
Sounds like complete BS.
Economies go up and down, that's called capitalism.
The difference in Europe is we actually have basic healthcare and unemployment help if you need it.
shadyray93@reddit
Stop with this doom and gloom thing, its immature thinking, your ancestors are turning in their graves.
Duelonna@reddit
Its funny how, through growing up, our dream countries turn out to not be so great.
Many dutchies will tell you 'i always wanted to live in the us, like Hollywood or NYC! But now, i actually prefer it here'.
Same with many americans going 'i always wanted to live in europe, maybe italy? Or Spain? But now, with the current stand, i prefer the us.'
So, in the end, most countries are going backwards, with the us and gun and abortion laws, the Netherlands and Italy with voting for quite extreme political parties and we can go on and on.
But in the end, its the fact that we are more well read into politics, current state of the world and see the wrongs in things we simply just didn't saw when we were kids
CasaSatoshi@reddit
You talk about Europe like it's one country?! Or even one town??
It's a big, variable place man. As always, some parts are going downhill, others are going up.
I'd say the same for the US too.
Sounds like availability bias to me.
Square-Employee5539@reddit
I love living in Europe and its relatively more relaxed pace of life. BUT longer-term I’m not sure that positions the continent well to compete with the intensity/ambition of the US or the extreme drive and workaholicism of China. Europe is comfortable and with that comes complacency. Good for the individuals but can weaken our competitiveness as a society. One of the downsides of globalism I guess.
Daspineapplee@reddit
As an European I feel the same way. Everyone wants more for less and everyone fully expects that we’ll stay rich forever. I see people get mad when tech startups start to disrupt stuff or when they cause some inconveniences.
But no one seems to notice or care that things are not going uphill at the moment and that a stagnating economy will decrease their quality of life sooner or later. And when the discussions come up, the government should fix it, give more subsidies to households or it’s the fault of greedy corporations.
While putting in the effort as a society to maintain our high standards of living is something none negotiable. This command make it a little worse than it is, but yeah it’s an issue.
LostClouds1@reddit
There is a lot of tension and a rise in crime due to mass migration from north african countries (starting in the 90s) in western and southern europe, it will only get worse as the demographics are changing inevitably. Not sure if the usa is really better though, at least europe doesn’t have trump,
Gino-Solow@reddit
Europe may be declining but real median earnings in the US are lower today than in the 1970s.
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881900Q
Speeder_mann@reddit
And the us has been improving? Have you seen the sh*t show going on in the political environment?
RedPanda888@reddit
You’re just becoming older, wiser and less naive. Generally everything is shit. The more money you earn, the less shit it gets. Your CoL drives your QoL.
Friendly_Lie_221@reddit
U.S. is absolutely not improving. Everything is completely unaffordable
all_u_need_is_cheese@reddit
Right?? I immediately thought to myself, tell me you don’t have a uterus without telling me you don’t have a uterus. 😅 And yes, it’s so expensive to live there, especially health care and child care. Most of my friends in the US literally can’t afford to have kids, even though they want them… it’s so sad. I have two kids in Norway and I barely felt a financial impact because their health care is free and day care is highly subsidized.
jeditech23@reddit
My insurance went up 40% this year for no apparent reason
And there's no way to shop for a lower rate because it's all monopolized
One example of how Americans are basically livestock for giant corporations that feed these billionaire overlord assholes
InterviewLeast882@reddit
I don’t think the US has been improving.
all_u_need_is_cheese@reddit
Yeah I immediately thought to myself, tell me you don’t have a uterus without telling me you don’t have a uterus. 😅
Tabitheriel@reddit
As a German-American, I have lived in Germany for 20 years, and I have visited the US every few years.
The infrastructure in the US, even the most "dynamic" parts, is 30 years behind the times: sagging power lines on poles instead of underground (this in a "rich part" of NJ, with millionaire mansions/palaces around the way!), overpriced internet, trains from the 1980's, etc. I did see some modern emissions-free buses, but by and large, things are crumbling. Go to the NY subway, and you see wiring hanging out exposed. The politics is medival, full of mud-slinging and absurd rumors. The healthcare system is still shite. All of my friends are struggling somehow (moved back in with parents, homeless, working 3 jobs, bankrupt, etc.). These are educated guys, not bums.
However, the millionaire condos, luxury apartment buildings and other amenities are really something to gawk at. It's a great start-up culture for risk-takers.
The UK and Europe? You're talking about more than 25 countries. The EU is lifting poorer countries like Rumania and Bulgaria out of poverty. Luxembourg and Switzerland are clean, safe and efficient (but boring). Here in Germany, we survived reunification, the refugee crisis, the pandemic and the Brexit. Are things worse? I'd say some things are worse, and some are better. The UK is a mess, but I'm cautiously hopeful.
We have three crisis situations on planet earth: Climate change, the threat of nuclear escalation (especially with Ukraine and Gaza wars), and the threat of fascism. Add to that that we have not economically recovered from the effects of a worldwide pandemic. The whole planet is in crisis mode, and you can't escape it.
sophosoftcat@reddit
I think it’s a combination of - everywhere is in decline + you’re getting older and wiser.
I feel similarly- when I travelled when I was younger it was easier because we are a bit more naive. When I first went to the US in the 2000s it was economic boom times - when I go now it makes me a bit depressed.
The older I get, the more often I’m grateful to be home. I think with age we just realise: everywhere has its flaws. Which are the right flaws for me?
monbabie@reddit
I don’t think it makes sense to generalize. What countries/regions in the EU are declining? What states/cities/regions in the US are improving? By what measures?
I agree that there’s aspects of decline in the EU generally and there’s aspects of improvement in the US but also it’s not like these areas affect every person. Some people are more affected by the declines or the improvements than others.
Professional-Pea2831@reddit
Germany. They can't even run trains on time
CatApologist@reddit
I live in the US and Europe, and while the US has a lot of problems, Europe definitely feels like it's declining.As others have mentioned one of the main reasons is the austerity vs money printing economic models which was forced by Germany because of their disgust for southern Europeans. Germans are not as smart as they think they are (again), and are now paying the price. Let's not mention shutting down all their nukes and willingly becoming slaves to Russian natural gas. Oh, and the whole VW diesel pollution scam.....banana republic behavior.
Professional-Pea2831@reddit
Germans are racists towards foreigners. They don't give them a fair chance. Neither in EU policies, nor when it comes to giving them a job.
How many foreigners are bosses in Germany. Germany has like 25% of foreign population. Who is the Elon Musk of Germany ?
biocin@reddit
Yes. Mainly due to industries losing against China. It is not just the price. The old generation of engineers that created all trustworthy and high quality industrial products are now retired. Meanwhile China upped the game and increased quality on these fronts immensely. They recruit maybe the best 5% of workforce from Europe, leaving mediocre people working for companies that are too heavy to transform themselves. On top comes all the new age niceties we all enjoy, like work-life-balance, job hopping, workers rights etc etc. that lead to higher cost of production for behind the times products. Alone the automotive industry of Germany in its old times would pull the whole Europe through. Not anymore.
1Angel17@reddit
I’ll comment something more thorough soon but it’s apparent that most of these commenting aren’t expats and have never LIVED outside of the US. They’ve visited but never lived outside full time yet still have things to say, which gives people wrong ideas about a LOT.
DaleAguaAlMono@reddit
It's not just a feeling; it's happening: Europe is declining, fast.
In fact, the whole occident is declining, but it's Europe who leads it... and for a great margin, together with Canada.
Why is this happening is a matter for another thread, but I think that anybody can take a look for similarities and take out their own conclusions.
here4geld@reddit
All the classic reasons. Low birth rate. Lack of innovation, war, recession. Expensive oil.
jeditech23@reddit
The financial sector
Chicago1871@reddit
The financial sector runs most countries and governments mostly only do their bidding.
The real power behind most political parties is the financial sector.
hudibrastic@reddit
All of those the root cause is public policies more focused on giving free things to unproductive people than creating an environment where innovators can produce.
ShinobiOnestrike@reddit
Define dynamic and exciting.
here4geld@reddit
I read the comments, now I will write my answer. Historically Europe was not a really state in an organic manner.
the biggest powers were british and dutch and they became rich from their business of exploitation of their colony. british got the money from India, dutch got it asia.
france got it from africa.
Europe does not have a huge land mass like china, russia, or usa.
so, for raw materials needed in industry, they are dependent on other countries.
specially oil & gas.
what europe did best was engineering & innovation.
see the german or dutch innovation, or even the swedish one. top quality machinery, cars, chemicals, equipments etc.
but when innovation stops, you cannot charge premium money.
Take example of AI or battery powered cars.
Look where Tesla is and where VW is.
or tell me a top AI/tech product company in entire europe?
they are far behind USA.
Europe made money from colonization, created great infrastructure & society, created robust good governance.
Now, slowly things are decaying. Look at german economy or UK economy. I think those 2 are the biggest ones.
Now add the low birth rate, ageing population.
a War of ukraine, that all the big european leaders are not able stop in 2.5 years.
this will definitely have an impact.
Also there are other economies which are not doing well like Spain & greece.
They are putting so much tax that the consumer has less money to spend on and even the stock market returns are low year after year.
Look at S&P 500 return vs frankfurt exchange return for comparison.
Europe does not have the raw materials to build batteries needed for electric vehicle.
Its all there in china, central asia or africa.
Also, its not getting cheap oil from Russia.
There is right wing government in few countries that shows peoples mood have changed and shows where society is heading.
There is a slow & steady decline, whether people like to admit it or not.
parachute--account@reddit
US global companies are extracting huge amounts of money out of Europe without paying any tax.
DannyFlood@reddit
Can you at least let us know where in Europe that you went? Then it would be much easier to answer your question. As you said in your post, every country is different.
breaker-one-9@reddit
You are definitely noticing the reality of things. Absolutely this is the case right now. Europe on the decline, US on the ascendant.
Kritika1717@reddit
I feel like the world as a whole is not only declining, but regressing. The US for sure is regressing. From the war on women’s rights to out of control crime with zero consequences, the US is declining as what was once a powerful and well respected country.
Lwyrup5391@reddit
Violent crime has seen a downward trend since the 90s but I agree that tons of social and economic policies are becoming more ‘right-wing’ aka regression.. who would’ve imagined that schools in the 21st century would be banning books for containing lgbt characters? More ridiculousness in our horizon I bet..
Paria1187@reddit
What you see in rich European countries are changes in demographics.
The native populations are declining because the birth rate is below the replacement rate of 2,1.
On the other hand, these countries have a lot of immigrants from African and Islamic countries who are breeding like rabbits. These people "take" more than what they "contribute". Rich European countries have a social safety net and that whole system is getting too expensive.
There needs to be a healthy ratio between people who work and contribute, and people who don't work and only take. Otherwise you can't have a social safety net. These countries are really f*cked, because they gave the immigrants a passport. You can't send them away.
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
And some of the conservative religious people are super backwards thinking. I literally had an Islamic coworker tell me his main goal in life was to have as many children as possible to preserve his legacy. His wife is his "servant" basically. Anything I tried to teach him something at work he basically turned his back on me. Glad that idiot was fired.
Yeah I'm all for immigration but not for dumfucks like him. There needs to be a better filter.
gowithflow192@reddit
Better take of those rose tinted spectacles: You are correct that Europe has big problems of decline but you seem blind to the different ones in America.
Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit
The US has been declining for the past 20 years at least. I can't speak on Europe. But thinking about the work culture in the US is enough to make me sick to my stomach. All the Europeans I've met have behaved with a lot more human decency and respect compared to the average American. That's just my experience.
As for my experience living in the US for most of my life, I honestly hate it.
It's all about work work work money money money.
When I told my friends I was leaving the US, a lot of them said they would do the same thing if they could.
One major surgery and you can kiss ALL your hard earned money goodbye. Let that sink in for a minute. One major health issue and you can easily be financially destroyed despite having "good" insurance.
I don't regret leaving the US for a single second and I live in Mexico which isn't even a first world country lol.
Tantra-Comics@reddit
Haha it was never great. Change is constant. Europeans have always been restless. That’s their nature…. They haven’t accepted that about themselves as yet.
joeschmoagogo@reddit
Europe has seen more rise and decline over the past, longer than the entire post-colonial history of the US. It’s all a cycle.
jeditech23@reddit
What part of the cycle is the US in right now then? Because ever since Reaganomics wealth has become disgustingly concentrated
Median salary to housing value is broken
yoshimipinkrobot@reddit
I think it’s an example of a house rich, income poor person. The cities are quite livable because of centuries of infrastructure development and human-centered design.
But economies and populations are declining, so the people can’t maintain things the way they used to
(America is the opposite. Infrastructure poor, income rich)
jeditech23@reddit
Car dependency is bondage
Surfif456@reddit
The US is not dynamic and exciting outside of a select few cities
HumanityFirstTheory@reddit
Yeah. The moment you leave any major U.S city it’s an absolute chain-infested shithole. The rural areas are largely a massive Walmart, bunch of parking lots, and opioid ridden depressed citizens. Or boring zombie suburbs.
The exception is New England which has a lot of cute small towns, but those are largely rare.
The south and Midwest are just depressing as fuck.
jeditech23@reddit
Texas is a great example of your assessment..
from-VTIP-to-REFRAD@reddit
You’re not wrong. I went back and was shocked at the number of fat people too.. American food is poison. The only place I can image moving back to is maybe Miami.
HVP2019@reddit
No more so than rural Europe
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
Sure but if USA has a handfull exciting cities europe has 10 times that. Rural vs rural is probably pretty much the same.
HVP2019@reddit
“Rural” was a wrong word. But couldn’t find better one.
Population of my town was 300-400 000 people. And there was nothing exciting or dynamic about the city, or similar other cities besides our capital.
thelogicofsense@reddit
Wrong
Kph100@reddit
US improving ?
Maleficent-Test-9210@reddit
Imho, the us is in decline. I finally have a little hope, but I plan to move to europe soon, regardless. Specifically one country whose policies I agree with and language I want to learn to speak.
Regular_Seat6801@reddit
Imho many countries are declining in term of quality of life, the earth is dying so thus us, human
happycynic12@reddit
Oh, so just like the US?
Thor-Marvel@reddit
Yes, Europe is in decline. What you had in mind was probably Europe pre-2008. Go look at GDP per capita or GDP growth, from the end of WWII until 2008, the US and Europe were on par. But the US pulled ahead in the last 15 years, while Europe stagnated. China pulled itself from absolute third world poverty when I was young (in the early 90s - where American parents would admonish you for not finishing your food “because there are poor kids in China who are starving”) - to the solid No. 2 Superpower in the world. Europe can’t compete.
The reason is for histories to write. But my two cents is that Europe got complacent, cocky and most importantly, lazy. And they mask their laziness in their cultural superiority, which worked, again, until 2008.
Europe, especially Western Europe, is still a decent place to be. But the trajectory is down, undoubtedly.
Tired_Wombats@reddit
Honestly, pretty much everywhere is in decline right now. But yes, I didnt realize how bad europe was getting until I worked there this summer. Never want to go back. But the US is also falling apart as well with the massive inflation and rising unemployment rate.
LifeDaikon@reddit
Inflation has been high due to high employment. The Fed is working to cool it down.
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
Can you share what your experience was there this summer?
mahboilucas@reddit
US improving? How lol
OptionalBagel@reddit
It's pretty hilarious that this is one of the first posts I see on this subreddit, because I feel the exact opposite way. I've never visited Europe until last year and now that I've been a couple times I'm fucking dying to get out of the US and live there. Quality of life just seems way better than here.
Ornery_On_Tuesday@reddit
I say this with kindness as a person born and raised in the US by 1st and 2nd generation parents from different European countries - Americans have always had an idealized perceptions of various European countries. Things change and you probably had rose colored glasses coupled with a tourist level of understanding (making an assumption here). Now you are older, have a decade of seasoning, and maybe seeing things with a different lens.
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
The opposite is true as well, and probably even more profound after a life of Hollywood. Baywatch, Miami vice, Beverly hills cop, Friends and Wallstreet in New york.
And then the european arrive and all he sees is highways, deserted inner cities with steel and glass buildings, no sidewalks, crazy homeless people by the Baywatch beach . Europe is not even close to be able to affect the perception of the continent as USA are able to do.
notmycarrott@reddit
USA is improving on what way ?? Have you seen average American in terms of health and size ?? Have you seen their infrastructure? Have you seen their education ? All the measurement are declining ? Europe is not the best but some European countries got their shit together !!! You want to compare what ? London to New York in term of population or wealth or infrastructure ? Or Mississippi to Bulgaria ? All the measurement showing that Europe is still a lot better !! Just because American can wear lululemon or Nike doesn’t mean they are better off 🤣
carnivorousdrew@reddit
Never was. You just fell for the tiktoks maybe. Europe is good if you come from a very wealthy family or you are a pro at tax evasion. Hard work and study will take you only that far, which is not that far.
GodspeedHarmonica@reddit
The west is declining. EU have especially stupid lately, but it’s a wider problem
Visible_Sun699@reddit
My observation about some European countries is that Spain might grow a lot in the close future, Denmark is at its peak, and Hungary might collapse soon.
IfYouSaySo4206969@reddit
American here who likes staying in Spain occasionally.
To me, the US still largely feels like the same bloated, corrupt, declining shithole I’ve come to know so well.
lookaseaofnonsense-@reddit
Well I can mostly talk for what I know but in my home country in Italy I do see a cultural and economic decline - especially evident in more rural areas where towns are abandoned in favour of cities. Also the climate crisis is really starting to become more obvious, from June to September it’s hot like 30/35 kind of hot… I remember being able to go ski in winter not far from my hometown and now it’s harder to get a full season and you have to go higher.
StairwayToLemon@reddit
"Europe" is many countires. You need to be more specific.
dede280492@reddit
The difference between western countries are incredible marginal. US/Canada/Western Europe/UK/Scandinavia in all of these countries you can have a great life. All comes down to your personal preferences, your job and how much the city/area you live in supports your lifestyle. Just merely saying country X is better makes no sense because all of them provide you with the foundation of a good life compared to poorer less developed countries in Latin America or Africa.
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
I dont know about that. How are you suppose to live a typicall european inner city life in Usa if you cant afford to live in the most expensive places in the country like New york or San fransico . Would a person brought up in Rome or Copenhagen really feel that a life in Dallas would be the same? How would they feel during a spring afternoon strolling around in Dallas. Would it be as vibrant with every street, cafe and bar full of people. People everywhere in all the beutiful parks. Nightclubs, people and music on the streets all night.
dede280492@reddit
You misunderstood my comment. That’s why I said it depends on your lifestyle and what you like to do. Sure the life is entirely different but if you like the small little old streets with cute cafes. Then better go to Paris. If you want to be in a huge house with a great garden better live in Dallas.
No-Tip3654@reddit
Grew up in Germany and as time went on everything became shittier and shittier. By the life of me, I couldn't name one thing that imroved throughout the many years that I spend living there. If you look at the accounts of people living in Italy, Spain, France or Britain, you'll get similar results. The population of the EU has been experiencing a major decline in quality of life.
asignore@reddit
I was just in Europe and didn’t find that to be the case. Europe is a big continent. Maybe your recent sample size was too small. Try a different country or city.
ItsaMeNotMario111@reddit
You have never been an expat and are making this post from a visit to Europe?
rhrjruk@reddit
I’m guessing it’s you that’s changed rather than Europe.
With a little experience and mileage abroad, we take off the rose-colored glasses
jackvismara@reddit
Finally, someone noticed it.
Europe is definitely declining, and even faster than the US. No doubt.
But this doesn't mean the United States isn't declining as well. Honestly, I don't really see any improvement on the American side of the pond in the past years. The US is also slowly falling apart.
But there's a difference many forget. The US is a single nation. Europe is a continent, with 50 states - each with different cultures, languages, politics, economies, levels of wealth, costs of living, interests... How can we think of having a cohesive continent if we are all so different?
Now, I was born in Europe and I love it. But I would be lying if I said Europe is any better than the US. That's why I moved out.
Thins is, looks like European can't realize it
Legitimate_Buddy1922@reddit
Where did you moved ?
Silly_Comb2075@reddit
US
Onion-Fart@reddit
Not sure what you’re seeing but it seems like those who stayed in my hometown are all addicted to heroin or losing their minds (and posting through it on socials). Only place comparable to my time in Europe is nyc and San Francisco but it’s quite expensive and in someways they are improving and in other (more noticeable) ways they decline.
kiwiblokeNZ@reddit
It's declining due to a failed experiment,sadly many of it's leaders don't seem to care
Convair101@reddit
On a macro level, however, Europe is financially stagnant. The period between the 1970-1990s saw an extreme centralisation of productivity and wealth in many key European cities. Europe has largely bet itself on financial and service sector growth, two areas which haven’t been all too fruitful beyond regional circles. For the UK, the growth of London as a global hub has resulted in it becoming a black hole, hoovering up capital, people, and space. With no means of competing, regional cities lost their edge, further impacting regional economies. Places like Birmingham, Manchester, and Glasgow suffered for much of the last century as they were unable, and arguably prevented in some cases, to compete with the manufactured metropolis. Another damming aspect was austerity. Europe played Russian roulette with economics, losing badly in the process. As a result, poorer communities were further impacted by the lack of government support, causing them to sink into cuts.
However, America can also be placed in the same position. I recently was positioned in Nevada for several weeks on a research trip. My travels around the state gave me the impression of a severely divided society. Very few places in Europe gave me the feeling of warping time, leaving a block that had mansions to another that didn’t even have paved roads, streetlights, and contained a homeless encampment. Seeing places in the Rust Belt where entire towns look like they’ve just been the torment of a war also provided me with a similar impression.
At the end of the day, you will miss and see things when you are in unfamiliar environments. I always find France more dirty than the UK, yet French cities are often kept to a higher standard. Without factoring in all the complexities that make places what they are, it is fairly hard to measure what is great and what is not.
PanickyFool@reddit
The economic high (a huge cocaine bump) of the single economic zone is tailing off.
Now the EU needs to continue integration, English as the official second language would be one example.
But instead the individual nations are protecting their individual cultures and farmers and economic advancement is slowing dramatically.
JewelerFinancial1556@reddit
this
Maru3792648@reddit
That is true for Europe…. But also for the USA
ApprehensiveStudy671@reddit
The Western world is in decline !
ValueBeautiful2307@reddit
I am from Europe and I definitively agree with you on this.
videki_man@reddit
No children, no future.
thegreatcanadianeh@reddit
You need to be far more specific about what countries in Europe you feel are struggling or declining.
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
The UK, France, Germany, Belgium, and Denmark.
itsnobigthing@reddit
And when did you visit them all before, for the comparison point? Ie how long before?
Jsc05@reddit
Ibéria is growing as well as USA and Mexico
Bright_Beat_5981@reddit
US has around 5 exciting and dynamic cities. Maybe 1-2 more after the pandemic. Europe has 25 exciting and dynamic cities ,maybe a couple less during the Russia-Ucraine war.
SqueegeePhD@reddit
Everywhere that stays Capitalist long enough will decline. Everything will only get more expensive everywhere and that middle class we all aspire to join is going to mostly disappear for a variety of reasons. America is just deeper into the rot, which is why there seems to be a difference between America and Europe. However, we are all sinking together.
Objective-Macaron-40@reddit
They have to get their illegal immigration in check and start mass deportations.
Odd_Dot3896@reddit
Life in Europe is dirt cheap compared to the USA and Canada. But you can’t snap your fingers and pay for the little luxuries. This does annoy me. Most things are tiny, cramped and dirty compared to my home country of Canada. Undeniably fun tho.
Being a student in Europe is fun as fuck. Not sure if it’s the best to be middle aged or older. Also Europe has so little nature compared to Canada it’s kind of sad.
Pros and cons to both.
velosnow@reddit
‘Less socially cohesive’ sure sounds a bit dog whistle racist.
hyp_reddit@reddit
have you been there recently?
Fearless-SkyD@reddit
Bot
LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit
That's funny, and I'm not being anywhere near sarcastic but I've moved here from Argentina, my country where I spent almost 39 years of my life, a shitshow if there ever was one, and this place, in amidst all the changes happening around the world seems stable enough, not to mention coping, if belatedly to migrants crisis, the NATO, Ukraine, etc. On the other hand, and I'm saying this after having worked most of my life for American companies, and still working for one here, and basically talking more to people in LA than the locals on a daily basis, and the US feels like it is in the middle of a turmoil, and I'm being nice. From Bush forward there was an obvious decline in politics, Obama once the history takes its time to do a proper evaluation won't come up unscathed, and Trump, which for most people feels like a problem, is a symptom of that. This election is the worst I remember in years.
Add to all I said the amount of Latinos is also changing the demographics in the US, and the USA has... well, basically its whole paradygm was pretty much focus on white people and ignore everyone else, your black population isn't fully integrated to this day.
Again, I am not judging. Argentina has a lot of problems, hell I know, I got out. But to be honest, from the outside it looks worse, San Francisco becoming both unstable and unsecure, business leaving, and this is happening in some cities too. The Netherland felt like a boring place in comparison to where the US is right now.
Legitimate_Buddy1922@reddit
South America will be one of the new destination of Western Europeans once the social crisis hits
LoyalteeMeOblige@reddit
Yeah, like fascist government like mine mostly had (just google what Peronism is and its creed) will work in the long run, they can downvote me to hell for all I care, we Latinos joke that moving within LATAM is basically changing from one cabin to another in the Titanic, I get why it is basically impossible to see to some people but hey, you are welcome to try, just mind you, earning in the local currency, you are not actually living there otherwise.
beaverpilot@reddit
From 2013 until Corona, most of Europe was growing, cities improving, lots of construction. But the double hit of Corona plus the war in Ukraine increased prices for everything in Europe a lot. This killed economic growth and progression. If it economically goes bad, then the unaddressed social issues become visible. Which is what you are seeing.
The solution is more investment and addressing the social issues in Europe. But because stupid lending rules, the Europeans don't invest enough.
The big difference for the US is that they are energy independent and lend a lot more money (which is possible because of the status of the dollar). So the economic situation is better than in Europe. Though socially, the USA is also declining.
For the future, I do expect on the short term the Europeans to have a difficult time. But Europe has rebounded from much, much worse. The economic crisis, which is mostly an energy crisis, will force them to go even more into renewable energy, and I expect them to be the first continent to make the full switch. This will make Europe energy independent again. The social issues, which are mostly integration and migration also can no longer be ignored, and there will need to be a solution. The war/hostility from Russia will force Europe to work together more and might bring a true European Federation closer to existing. If they manage this, then Europe will return stronger than ever.
Tldr. Europe has some big issues that need to be sorted out. And that will give short-term problems and economic troubles. But this forces them to finally fix some fundamental problems. If done well, they will rebound a lot better.
Affectionate_Age752@reddit
You're on glue if you think the US has been proving
eljuarez99@reddit
My grandma said everything you said about Europe now but in the 90s
Willing_Program1597@reddit
I used to live in Europe and thought it was awesome. It doesn’t appeal to me anymore currently.
I didn’t want to live in the US at all and wanted to go back to Europe. Can’t say that’s the case right now. This isn’t to say that the US is better or improving (I don’t think it is). I just feel in limbo now because most of the world is really unstable atm.
softhackle@reddit
Shit, I moved to Switzerland 20 years ago and every time I set foot in the US I think it's gotten worse and can't wait to leave again. I guess it's a matter of perspective?
frankieche@reddit
You’re not the only one who thinks this.
WesternArcher721@reddit
Lot of Europeans are now moving to Dubai qatar for a better salary and comfortable lifestyle and yes safety first.
Few-Classroom8110@reddit
It for sure is. Get out while you still can.
Berghunde@reddit
Europe definitely is. whether the rest of the world is too, I don't know
tankinthewild@reddit
Well minus the PiS setbacks, Poland has been improving at an actually wild rate.
urano123@reddit
Yes, for the opposite of this;
https://youtu.be/Ko9uQvR93kw?si=NiUgk3TuMb17Up49
hudibrastic@reddit
Spot on
mkrugaroo@reddit
It all depends on your perspective. I do agree that some parts of Europe has some minor decline, with slightly more visible homeless people, slightly less public transport and some services declined. I think the system is still messed up after Covid and the inflation crisis. But in general it doesnt at all compare to what I have seen visitng the US, with people sleeping in their cars and tents on the streets, all methed out. Infrastructure like bridges and train tracks literally rusting away. The US is definitely growing economically ahead of the EU, but the wealth is soo concentrated that I dont think it actually leads to a better quality of life for the average person.
DFWPunk@reddit
If you're operating on the assumption that the US is getting better the rest of your theory is flawed.
alittledanger@reddit
As a dual U.S./Irish citizen that also lived in Spain I would say there are pros and cons to both the U.S. and Europe.
However, I think that America’s issues are a little bit easier to solve. And American politicians tend to make decisions that are better for the economy. We came out of both the 2008 financial crisis and COVID better than the EU.
HighwayStriking@reddit
The west is falling
Ka_aha_koa_nanenane@reddit
We are at peak energy use and resource use, globally. Per capita energy use is increasing as the same time as the population. This leaves less money for fixing old things and fixing old problems.
In what way is the US doing better? Sure, we have a lot of consumer collection. Anyone can buy something new-ish to wear at Target (or even a thrift store, really).
We have lots of cars zooming around. The film industry is tanking. Housing has become almost unaffordable and we have lots of unhoused people. The construction trades are lagging. Minimum wage jobs predominate and there have been huge lay-offs in the tech sector, forcing people who used to have big incomes (and big mortgages) to really scramble, sometimes losing their homes too.
Here on reddit, we read every day about the struggle for these laid off workers to find new jobs. Our educational system is a wreck (but apparently, Europeans complain about those two things as well).
With birth rates declining, we don't have the "pyramid scheme" that supported retirement, etc., etc.
such_it_is@reddit
Western countries are declining. Eastern EU doing way better now.
DKerriganuk@reddit
I think you may be confusing the place you visited with a whole continent. Did you visit any of the growing European economies like Poland? Did you visit the rust belt in America?
Fit-Construction-528@reddit
I have the same feeling. I'm from Europe and have lived in three European countries in the past 5 years, travelled the US for a month this year. Truly felt like going to the future. Especially since even LA and New York seem cleaner and safer than f.e. Brussels
djmanu22@reddit
Europe has always been like that, some Americans tried to portray it as the land of opportunity but it cannot be further from the truth. (like all these digital nomads in Portugal).
OkGlass99@reddit
Yeah, it's called not having money and having money.
rollingstone1@reddit
Honestly, everywhere seems on a downward trend atm.
hudibrastic@reddit
Yes, Europe is becoming poorer in the last 2 decades, it is economic size compared to the US halved https://www.wsj.com/articles/europeans-poorer-inflation-economy-255eb629
That is the result of socialist policies, they make a country poorer when you shift incentives from generating wealth to sucking other’s wealth.
Europe has a huge division between Europeans and non-Europeans, with lots of racism coming out of the closet, riots, and one stupid side blaming the other stupid side.
I met a couple from Seattle that was visiting London this weekend, they were shocked with the prices, then I told them “Now, take into consideration that salaries are 1/3 of the ones in the US… and you understand why people here pretend that living in a shoebox or sharing an apartment with 2 strangers and getting into a packed metro every day is a great quality of life”… pure coping.
crankywithout_coffee@reddit
“The US feels like a dynamic and exciting place.” That’s also a generalization, and while I’m sure that’s true for some people in some places in America, that’s certainly not true across the board. In my opinion, the US was a better place 10-15 years ago. Today there is a shocking amount of social isolation and rising financial struggles, not to mention the obvious political divisions which are only getting worse.
3yoyoyo@reddit
Perhaps is better to let yourself be seduced by your perception and stay in the US. Doxa vs Episteme again, a never ending cycle. The american propaganda during the primary socialization years is top-notch for sure.
AquaticGoats@reddit
I don’t know man, I’m from the US and quality of life is declining for anyone not making $700,000/yr.
No “normal” person can afford to buy a house, food prices are insane, rent prices are insane, healthcare/health insurance is an absolute joke, and we won’t do anything about kids getting shot in schools and grocery stores.
The US might have a “better economy” but it’s not trickling down like it used to
let-it-rain-sunshine@reddit
700k?! Hah you’ll be just fine on 100k as a single person in America if you don’t fall into debt traps and keeping up with the Jones’s
zia_zhang@reddit
Make sense since the US has the largest economy in the west.
Maximum_Band_7492@reddit
Europe is in rapid decline, unable to integrate immigrants, and work together. Culturally, they are jealous and whiners.They went ultra and woke to the point that the birth rates crashed because kids are bad for the environment and womens careers. America is blowing them away in innovation. Europe can not lead. All the directions are coming from America. But it's a nice place to live if you enjoy cafes and trips.
Odd_Pomegranates@reddit
I disagree. I went back to the US for the first time since the pandemic, and it was worse than Europe. I went back to my hometown which is filled with affluent and wealthy households. Local shops and restaurants were closed all over the place, there were homeless people begging on street corners, food prices were ridiculous, public infrastructure was badly maintained, people neglected their houses and there was one house available for sale under $500,000 in the entire area. I have the opposite experience living in the Netherlands.
compox@reddit
Yeah, I miss imperator Julius Caesar as well.
thalamisa@reddit
Europe has been lagging in tech compared to US and Japan, but it's still relatively a great place to live if you're from a developing country.
dangerislander@reddit
Europe is going through their nazi era where they blame immigrants for everything.
anotherboringdj@reddit
All countries
Kxdan@reddit
Import 3rd world become 3rd world
Suspicious_Direction@reddit
How are you drawing these conclusions???? It seems an awful lot like you are going off a hunch, feelings or worse....
loud_v8_noises@reddit
1000% agree.
American living in EU and I told me teenage kids there is no economic future here and they need to get back to the US if they want to actually have any success.
wyldstallionesquire@reddit
U.S. is doing well for the moment economically, but as someone that moved to Europe from the U.S. recently, I’d say the opposite.
Meep42@reddit
I think this is going to depend on where you are going/coming from and/or perspective.
I came from an overrun and overwhelmed city with a super high COL that was leaving too many folks in the lurch. It’s not perfect here? But a supremely marked improvement.
Now, if a relative I know moved from her amazing mid-western-style cute little town? She would hate it here. It’s too grimy in comparison.
After the pandemic though? And now the hit the wars and economy are having? Yep, towns have definitely been affected. Especially if they rely on tourist dollars.
th3cfitz1@reddit
I will agree that many places in europe are struggling financially and socially, but the U.S. is declining much faster. I’m not sure where you get the impression that the U.S. is improving.
mandance17@reddit
The world is
moiwantkwason@reddit
The U.S. has definitely not been improving. What you are seeing probably people from richer cities moving to poorer cities. Cities like SF, LA, Seattle, and Boston are getting more expensive, dirtier, and more unsafe.
Hutcho12@reddit
The UK has been in decline since shortly before Brexit, and it has hit hard. But Europe is going just fine, certainly better than America where they're actually considering voting in a clown for a second time as President.
Captlard@reddit
All 50+ countries?
SharingDNAResults@reddit (OP)
See my last paragraph…
Captlard@reddit
Saw it. It is a pretty useless discussion as it is based on one person’s view of perhaps a few countries / locations visited, probably in a reasonably short period of time, possibly at peak tourist season. Like all places there are great bits and shit bits (Moscow looking at you!)
Pretty sure I could say the same about the USA. Sure there are dynamic and exciting bits there, but probably a pile more that are just like how you describe Europe.
Find your happy! That’s the only one that counts!