Perhaps not true. When they close the breach at the end of the episode everything snaps back to how it was before Worf entered the fissure. So they’ll likely be sent back to before they were destroyed and still have a chance to rally vs the borg. Though things aren’t looking good.
They were on the run with ship being held together with tape, spit, and desperation. And the borg wouldn't have pulled pinches on their next encounter. The real question is which empire do you flea to? Which one would the borg either ignore or be able to put up a flight.
Eh, they just have to hold out for a few more years until the Borg will have bigger fish to fry off in the Delta quadrant. No Voyager means it'll take at least a while longer for the Borg to figure out how to beat Species 8472. That could at least give the remaining ships some room to breathe. We could even see sorta an inverse of Scorpion, where the remaining non-Borg ships are able to make an alliance with Species 8472.
Or maybe I'm wrong and there is no opening and everyone dies. It'd still be fun to explore what a Borg-dominates Galaxy would look like for a little while. Jurati claimed that in every timeline the Borg inevitably lose, so it'd be interesting to see how that happens in a universe where it looks like they've pretty much won.
> So they’ll likely be sent back to before they were destroyed and still have a chance to rally vs the borg.
They were quite clear that there are few federation ships left. There's nothing left to rally.
I wish I could find it but I read a really good Fan fiction about this timeline. In it Riker basically kept the Enterprise D in lowest power mode capable in order to not be detected and would warp out every few days or so to keep dodging the Borg. It did a good job of showing the stress and desperation the crew was going through trying to keep the Enterprise going. It was getting worse because the ship had been running for so long without getting routine maintenance that certain systems were failing, and non essential systems were shut down in favor of saving power.
The ships actually fine, Riker just spent the last two months on the holodeck. And it’s his universes version of the holodeck. It’s like ours, but it has blackjack and hookers.
Agreed. I feel like there are plenty of dark future science fiction stories. Many of them are good, but I like having Star Trek for its optimism. The world is grim enough.
This really is a sore spot for me. There's a significant group of people who get excited about "gritty" or "dark" reboots. I am not one of them. I think there's been too many already, and I fear that "gritty reboot" has become synonymous for some people with the term "better reboot."
I'm with you. Star Trek is about hope, unity and the best humanity has to offer facing a dark and sinister universe and overcoming it. Gene Roddenberry never wanted the crew even arguing. That was too unrealistic. TNG found the balance of introducing conflict, trauma, pain, weakness and the crew being there for each other through it. To me that's the real utopia of the Federation. It's not replicators and holodecks. It's a bunch totally different people dedicating their lives to something bigger than themselves though exceptional personal development and being there for each other no matter what. That's what Star Trek is to me. That's the sauce.
For whatever reason, writers in Hollywood, especially at Netflix want to take good concepts about hope and make them into stories about unlikable people backstabbing each other. And then they wonder why they fail to resonate with viewers.
Agreed. Although I think little bits of this sort of "peek behind another curtain" are great because it creates that contrast. It shows *that things COULD be awful* in the universe, and that juxtaposition makes the "main timeline" mean more with its hope an optimism. We can avoid these fates, etc
> For whatever reason, writers in Hollywood, especially at Netflix want to take good concepts about hope and make them into stories about unlikable people backstabbing each other. And then they wonder why they fail to resonate with viewers.
It's a shortcut to "drama". Writing reasonable characters disagreeing reasonably with each other, then coming to a consensus, then applying the consensus in order to overcome an obstacle and making it compelling takes skill and work. Writing unreasonable characters disagreeing with other unreasonable characters gets you to "drama" in a hurry, but it's weak drama.
I tried disco and Picard and couldn’t finish them, I want to see a world that can be if we become better. Not the same nonsense I see when I watch the news…
Picard season 3 I got through. Season 2 feels like it got hijacked from its original direction. Discovery I stopped watching when Strange New Worlds came on. SNW and Lower Decks scratched all my itches. I'll finish Disco eventually. It didn't resonate with me despite some awesome characters and cool ideas.
I love a gritty reboot like BSG or even a gritty Sci-fi universe like The Expanse or Babylon 5 but I need my Star Trek to be optimistic and hopeful. I think that's why the new Star Trek stuff hasn't really resonated with me. It's too hellbent on deconstructing The Federation into some failed mirror of the military industrial complexes that exist today. It's just depressing.
See, I wouldn't even consider Babylon 5 "gritty". B5 has a string of hopeful philosophy throughout the entire show, even when their optimism is momentarily dashed.
I say gritty in the sense that it's not a utopia like Trek. Capitalism exists, racism exists, poverty, crime and disease are still a big part of Earth Force. It's probably closer to what we will get if no one decides to wipe us all out launching nukes but it's a "dirtier" future than what Trek has presented. I agree we eventually get there after the civil war, shadow war, Earth being reduced to medieval levels but it's a far longer road to that hopeful future.
Exactly, reboot BSG is just straight up edgy trash to me...couldn't even use actual curse words. The original show wasn't great but it was at least campy and had real effects.
It's been a thing for decades. There's this phase for a lot of teenagers where they think edginess and darkness in fiction = complexity and maturity, and a smaller but more dedicated handful of people carry those ideas into adulthood because they spend all their time with fiction and don't get their worldview updated through contact with the real world.
Same. I love the idea of a money-less society. Everyone working towards bettering the human race instead of just trying to get more and more power and money.
I was always curious about the people who made Q 10 chocolate Sundays. Were they like “I’m working to better mankind?” or more like “this sucks. How did I have a minimum wage job without the minimum wage?”
I know, I watched it before ;) but this is back to back so the difference is really jarring. But it makes the show better for it, no wonder why it’s considered so highly.
DS9 engages with the utopian premise of Star Trek. Often, it explicitly *critiques* this premise, or highlights some of the colonialist attitudes, etc.
But it at least relates to the premise in good faith, even when it isn’t buying in.
Discovery sort of just discards the utopian premise entirely and pretends like ST has always been some edgy grim universe.
I think that’s what rubbed me the wrong way. I feel similarly about S3 of Enterprise, which has some good episodes but imo diverges too far.
Exactly. The fear of occupation by the Dominion, the planned genocide on earths population, the dark past of the Cardassians and Bajorans are some examples. Even Sisko does some dark shit when we think about in the pale Moonlight.
The Year Of Hell 2-parter was the Voyager production staff apologising to Voyager fans, as _that_ is the kind of thing they promised us in the previews: a federation ship alone in a hostile quadrant, resource starved, constantly having to make do, cobble together repairs, meet a constant stream of new species and have to negotiate their way around each one.
But what we got was just a normal Star Trek with a vague concession to "low resources" being Neelix cooking up one batch of gumbo a day and somehow feeding the 200 strong crew with it, whilst simultaneously losing 1 shuttle each episode and somehow getting it back again.
Yeah, came here to say "YoH".... I don't need to go through that again and that was only two episodes. It was certainy hell and I don't need to see the crew being tortured for a whole season.
It's not 1-to-1, but the Star Trek TNG DC comics series did a version of this - [a 4-issue story called "The Worst of Both Worlds."](https://them0vieblog.com/2014/03/03/star-trek-the-next-generation-dc-47-50-the-worst-of-both-worlds-review/).
I wouldn’t want to see a whole show of this
But…..
I always thought a Star Trek anthology series doing episodes about things across the fed and timelines would be cool
Kinda, Q's interference sped up the first official encounter between the federation and the borg but it was imminent anyways. they had already made it to the neutral zone and taken out the several outposts which led to the Romulans to coming out of isolation in the episode Neuteral Zone
This timeline was consistent with the normal one we're most familiar with all the way up to the point that Captain Riker engaged the cube with Locutus. Apparently the rescue mission didn't go off as planned, or Locutus/Picard's "sleep" comment didn't get interpreted correctly. The jist is the cube kept going and assimilated Earth.
Oh hell yeah it would. Too late now, but if Ep2 ended up with Locutus rescue goes tango uniform, and Riker orders a retreat as Enterprise gets heavily damaged? Episode ends with Cube then just keeps going to Earth and then the alternate series just follows them around as they try to re-assemble the surviving fleet, build up new allies, and survive.
Something that always struck me about this timeline is that other than Worf, nobody else is on the bridge, telegraphing that this Enterprise crew has suffered heavy losses.
The creepiest part that to me was the grammar choice.
“The Federation’s gone; the Borg is everywhere.”
Somehow the “is” instead of “are” was a cool touch.
Nah, it would get old quick. A 3 or 4 part miniseries, sure. But a traditional TNG length series, 7 seasons, 24/26 episodes a season.... the Borg would get old, quickly.
Everyone suggesting Battlestar. What about Gene Rodenberry's Andromeda that is about the fall of the Commonwealth (Federation) lol?
I cant stand Kevin Sorbo anymore with his current political views, and the show had a pro-Iraq war WMD episode. But still has some interesting ideas and entertaining for being so cheesy. The ship being basically a character and having avatars was cool.
And every few months there's a random macguffin quest to go on that has a horribly unsatisfying conclusion. The season quest arc design of that show was the worst part. I prefer serialized but it would've been much better with a few small arcs each season with 2 or 3 stand alone episodes, or have the major that be only partially dealt with by them, cuz there's apparently NO other ships unless they needed them for set dressing/deep cut callbacks.
The first season was decent but the red Angel was the beginning of the end. It's like they thought they were writing game of thrones level of mystery and were really writing at a blues clues level.
There was a HUGE missed opportunity to collaborate on the control storyline and the machine intelligence at the end of Picard S1. It seems control could either have become that thing or somehow got in contact with it. Besides LD and SNW they've been SERIOUSLY dripping the ball trying to create shows for target demographics, there should be a pg/pg13 max and an R, not the kids show (prodigy), the teen show (academy), the millennial show (LD), the nostalgic ALMOST deeply serious show(Picard), and the everyone show SNW.
Have maybe 3, one serialized and adult themed, one mixed episodic/serial and traditional (SNW has that covered) that is accessible to most viewers but pushes the edge a little, and something fun and different like LD comedy or a non federation centered show on an independent ship from earth, or even a fully alien mixed crew outside starter that highlights the way others see the federation.
I wouldn't. That's a show that would just get continuously more dour the longer it goes on. There's no hope there. It'd be a show with nothing but watching everything either slowly get assimilated or die. This brief scene was genuinely unsettling, and you want a whole series out of it? Nah
I’d much rather see one set in Yesterdays Enterprise, one in which the shadow of what the viewer knows the federation could have been in the 24th century constantly haunting it.
There was a guy on YouTube called sfdebris that was a legend at breaking down Star Trek and sci fi media. He probably has a few good episodes on dark sci fi
It would be interesting. Presumably if they made a series of it, this would be one of the universes where the Federation has utterly had its asses kicked by the Borg and somehow came from the ashes.
Oh dude, make a old man Riker in the mirror universe and he’s on a voyager style journey trying to get home. The twist is he brings the cardasians to bajor. I didn’t flush this thought out. This probably wouldn’t make sense.
Seems like his uniform should have been more tattered and worn. When your ship is constantly being shot to hell, who has energy to waste replicating new clothes every day?
This Riker knows that it could very easily have been him in that situation. Getting destroyed at that point would have been a mercy. It’s kind of like when Picard shot that crewman as the nanoprobes started to assimilate him in First Contact.
Riker's coolness factor is directly proportional to the appearance of his beard, as we know. This timeline has Riker at maximum beard, which means it's probably peak Riker. So yes, that would be fun to see.
I kinda feel like we got it with Voyager's "Year of Hell." You see what happens when a Starfleet crew is pushed beyond their limits and continually tested by an enemy who continues to dog them and outguns them. I thought Janeway rose to the occasion.
they sort of have, they did a lot of "day's of future present" (any marvel fans here) i've always enjoyed divergent timelines and alt history's, wasn't riker more or less like "fine strangle babies put wessly in a woodchipper make me your mouth pussy just make it stop!!!" in this scene?
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