Michael Jackson couldn't write music or read it either.
He would humm the tune that was in his head, write lyrics to it, then piece it together in a studio.
Then go hunt for kids to diddle.
You don't have to understand the finer points of music theory to be a successful artist.
You do realize that the accuser is supposed to provide the evidence right? The crime is irrelevant, if you're gonna call someone a piece of shit, prove it. Why does the internet have no concept of "innocent until proven guilty?" I could do the same and call you a pedophile right now and ask you to prove you're not. Doesn't sound fair does it?
you should check out the leavingneverlandHBO sub, thousands of members who will show you thousands of proofs. I recommend you start with my comment pinned to my account if you want proof and documents.
Plus he was a die hard Shadman fan and Shad produced digital child porn. Literally ALL of this is available for you to find but noooooo, demand some random dude on the internet to source the stuff that ten minutes of research would get you. Especially considering your types aren’t even gonna trust the shit I post to cite the information. It’s a lose lose for me either way so do your own research and find the answer
And the accuser has shown tons of screenshots of the now deleted discord, multiple people who were children at the time have come out with screenshots of messages from Chris Tyson showing that he was sending porn and talking about sex+sending nudes to them. The stuff is there for you to find. I’m not gonna spoon feed you stuff that you can easily find
If there is no evidence someone is a predator how tf are they a predator, innocent until proven guilty is a rule for a reason. You probably just watched some random video and are now parroting your version of it without actually taking a look at what happened
He knew but didnt know. I think the bigger bombshell is that other video that dropped showing how much of a hack he is.
https://x.com/MrBeast/status/1646552879136636936?lang=en
He's getting exposed by ex employers for a ton of shit, but the kid diddling thing came from the Ava situation. Someone leaked messages in a discord server where she had minors in an NSFW channel and would post nudes there, as well as have sexual conversations with them. She claimed they were all jokes. Mr. Beast at first said he didn't know, but later leakes showed he was in the server too, and actively interacting with it.
Newsflash..There's an entire subreddit [leavingneverlandhbo](https://www.reddit.com/r/leavingneverlandhbo/) with thousands of intelligent well researched members that denounces your idol Michael Jackson as a pedophile. You can't handle the truth
Look at you on your high horse. Some of us aren't lucky enough to be successful without the diddling. It's like Cosby chiding other comedians for not having a clean act. Get over yourself man.
You can read the court transcripts and decide for yourself. Basically there were allegations that he was giving kids alcohol and sleeping in the same bed with them, possibly inappropriate touching and molestation. Kids testified with some corroborating evidence, and their testimonies supported most of the allegations. The prosecution was clueless, and because it was so long ago a lot of evidence wasn't even admissible, so the case basically went nowhere and he was found innocent.
He *probably* did do it, but because there's a small shadow of a doubt, some people can vehemently claim he was innocent, even though there's a *giant* like of evidence and a bunch testimonies from saying otherwise.
The FBI also investigated OJ Simpson.
They also invested both Hillary and Trump, depending on which side of the aisle you're on.
The people he molested claim he molested them, and make strong arguments. I'm more inclined to believe them over the weird reclusive musician with a crippling drug addiction and odd obsession for childlike things.
Lol some kids have come forward and admitted they lied. Many inconsistencies in their stories too.
Funny how the kids parents wanted to settle for money first right? What parent would do that?
LOL, Michael Jackson and The FBI:
* DID NOT follow MJ, ever;
* DID NOT tap his phone;
* DID NOT put surveillance on MJ;
* DID NOT search his residence (neither Hayvenhurst, Century City, the Hideout nor Neverland);
* DID NOT open an investigation into molestation against him; and
* DID NOT do anything that they would normally do in a federal case.
***The FBI never, ever investigated Michael Jackson for child molestation.***
FBI provided technical and investigative assistance … between 1993 and 1994 … between 2004 and 2005”. This represents 2 years of technical assistance.
[FBI Records: The Vault — Michael Jackson](https://vault.fbi.gov/Michael%20Jackson)
As far as I know, multiple kids came out later to say that he didn't actually do anything and they were coerced into saying so. Though finding a source for that is quite difficult since Google sucks ass nowadays
So do teachers. Mans whole youth was televised he wanted to give kids the sense of wonder he never got I'm guessing. I know it's a hard concept to understand but people are inherently good.
People are inherently selfish. For people like me and you, that results in a form of altruism for less privileged people. For someone born into a mysoginistic desert shithole on the other side of the planet, that results in a desire to benefit the clan, which might manifest as a desire to wipe out the clan next door so that your clan has access to more resources.
People are not inherently good, it's just a matter of how their personal brand of selfishness manifests.
Good deeds aren't as entertaining to publicize so it's not down our throats daily like all things terrible. I'll say it again people are inherently good I'm sure you don't suck
No I don't, and you're certainly right that it's easier to condemn than it is to praise ... which is one of the things that make us terrible beings.
I do appreciate your optimism especially in this day and age, because I find it hard to find. Maybe I should quit Twitter.
I think there's def a higher amount of terrible people in the world than people acknowledge and there's also a lot more good people than people think. IMO Most people are fairly neutral and somewhat selfish, maybe about 30% are good people who will try and do the right thing, and maybe like 10% are downright assholes. I think it actually follows a fairly normal distribution.
I think I hit the nose on what I said earlier -- I should get off Twitter. I've been online since 1994 (and earlier, to a lesser and more local extent) and it's only in the last year or so where I've seen straight up death threats made to other people and me by (supposedly) fellow Americans. I can't believe some of the interactions that I've seen where people legit seem to anxious if not giddy to kill other people based on political view. The pandemic showed me just how many people love to be contrarian even when it's in their best interests to do what's right.
Yeah, I should quit Twitter. Especially since Elmo is now suing companies for not advertising on there, free speech rah rah.
It’s literally part of human evolution. We as humans inherently form groups and societies because it is beneficial to our wellbeing. To form such groups we have to be good to one another, it’s an evolutionary trait that we developed.
I’m not American. I appreciate what you are saying, but my only point is that humans are evolutionarily “designed” to be good to one another. Religion and politics often get in the way of that and make otherwise good people do and say bad things, but that’s an entirely different issue.
If you spend time outside internet people are great, our sense of hype, wonder, and the instinct to do good things are amazing. Moral of the story is don’t spend too much time in the internet lmao
Even Darth Vader was good my man. He changed the whole history of that Galaxy. Even the Emperor could be seen in a sympathetic light if you consider his primary goal was to unify the whole Galaxy. Just like America. Ain't got no major wars going on with that Atom Bomb hanging over our heads. MAD is what's keeping us out of the trenches. If only Ukraine and Palestine could figure how to make their own Atom Bombs they might have little better time in their bizarre little theatres. Look at India and Pakistan. Two nations in a blood feud started by someone they never met 100 years ago. They got themselves some of that sweet sweet plutonium pie and now all they can do is dance in front of each and whoever kicks highest gets laid.
I guess what I'm trying to say is all it takes is a shift in perspective and what one might say is the most evil thing to have been devised by humankind has led us to the most peaceful time in history.
Or maybe I'm saying something else. But probably not. At least I don't think I am. Or am I?
No one is born evil, no one is born with hate for their fellow man. It's just much harder to accept that there is no rhyme or reason for suffering, so we invent an enemy, and any will do.
To be fair if you were as rich and famous as he was you'd have jacked up security too. Go read about all the crazy shit paparazzi and crazy stalker fans did.
ur evidence for him not touching kids is "he's a good guy man he wouldnt do that man" meanwhile he had like tons of kids in his bedroom
the whole "give kids a sense of wonder" thing is propaganda spewed out by his estate so people kept worshipping him after he was found out.
be fucking fr dude, do you actually think there was nothing sinister about a pop star cuddling kids and giving them alcohol
The only thing I don't like and will agree was messed up was the alcohol. I don't understand the alcohol also haven't heard of it till today but yea everything else Is all love.
Dude had a closet full of kiddie porn, don't kid yourself. His music was great (at least in the late 70's/early 80's) but he was a full blown creep due to his messed up childhood.
And worst of all, the books published by Nambla pedophiles contained hundreds of nude images of children, which he hid in a locked filing cabinet. I showed the documents in my commentary pinned to my account.
>so do teachers
What argument even is this. Teachers work with kids professionally, and in controlled environments. Michael Jackson invited kids to his personal theme park and had sleepovers.
The difference between a famous Pop singer and Teachers is 1. A greater difference in power dynamic. 2. Social and economic responsibility. 3. One of those are being paid for their time and have specific education to do that, and 4. (Perhaps the strongest point) One of them is laying in bed with the children and the other is not.
nobobody talks sbout the secret closet they found when he was dead. [https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653380/Michael-Jackson-s-secret-underage-sex-closet-Inside-raid-uncovered-King-Pop-s-extensive-collection-photos-featuring-naked-teenage-boys.html](https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3653380/Michael-Jackson-s-secret-underage-sex-closet-Inside-raid-uncovered-King-Pop-s-extensive-collection-photos-featuring-naked-teenage-boys.html)
if a teacher had this room itd be bad news for them too.
1. Teachers have a greater power dynamic. They can fuck up your life. 2. This is Bs. 3. Education doesnt educate the pervert out of you. 4. Teacher fuck kids all the time
There are ways to give children a sense of wonder that doesn't involve leaving them unattended with a powerful pop icon that has an unsettling fascination for children and things relating to children.
To be entirely fair, none of the kids who he spent time with ever came out against him, and the ones who did all admitted they were doing it because their parents wanted the attention.
>Gets sexually assaulted by a pop star
>Waits until over a decade after the statute of limitations is over to try to use
And apparently, Robson actually was called as a witness in another case when he was 22 and claimed that He and Jackson's relationship wasn't sexual, then years later claimed he lied in court??
Is Jackson Fishy? Sure. But honestly, their own stories are just as riddled with holes as his was.
he was acquitted by every jury and most of the alleged victims & their families came forward and stated that nothing happened & they did all of it for money and media attention. to me it's an open and shut case by now
No victim has recanted after accusing MJ, stop repeating misinformation. There's an entire subreddit [leavingneverlandhbo](https://www.reddit.com/r/leavingneverlandhbo/) with thousands of intelligent well researched members that denounces your idol Michael Jackson as a pedophile.
The damage is unfortunately already done at this point.
Most people who have not researched the allegations just assume they are true because it's par for the course for a celebrity scandal
Yeah some people are just like that. I have a friend and we recently jammed together and I told him I was gonna play on d minor and he just said he didnt know what I was talking about. Then proceeded to play over it by sound alone perfectly.
It might have been Jimmi if I remember correctly he couldn't read music he could play it by listing or making it.
There's not one way of making Music it's all really just sounds and some people learn just by hearing
I didn't know that about Michael Jackson. The other musician I know who would do the same is from my tortilla country, José Alfredo Jiménez. I'm sure there's many others.
This is fairly common. Danny Elfman, Mel Brooks and Irving Berlin were also music illiterate, and they’ve written some of the best-known film and theatre music of the twentieth centuries.
Whats crazy is that he would pull up to high schools and ask his body guards to stroll for pussy. This went on so long as he had the cash to hush. Shows you how powerful money is.
He faked aliyahs age so he could marry her, iirc, she was 16 at the time
Dude come on, I was literally taking a drink of my Red Bull when I read that 3rd sentence. You can’t just…. Put them at in there all random. Hats off to you.
These guys also have people on staff who can write out their ideas too. Also, rhythm players (drums, guitar, bass, keys) often don't ever use sheet music for these kind of jobs.
Yeah he wasn't some starving artist with no connections in the business.
Dude had connections from Berry Gordy on down and had access to studios, musicians, and people that could help him make it happen.
Yon't need sheet music, to understand how music works. Sheet music is a tool, and just as you don't always need a screw driver to screw something together, you don't need to be able to read music to make it. It does make things easier in some respects, just like a screwdriver makes it easier to tighten shit.
You don't even need to know theory to know how music works. Some people are just born with a natural affinity towards music. Theory is only there to bridge the gap between those that have that and those who don't.
Imagine that some musical master pieces were written before our current generation of sheet music notation, and can only be recreated because people have been transmitted through generation by new young people listening to it.
The Beatles absolutely knew the names of notes and chords and scales, just not how to read and write sheet music. Very different. I get where you're coming from though.
I used to play a lot of jazz music in highschool and college, and it amazed me that everyone was learning from a page when that’s not how jazz music started, at all.
I wasn’t expecting them to hand out heroin or anything, but it always boggled my mind. Music written on sheets is a very new thing in the scope of civilization, and an even smaller blip if you look at all of humanity.
>Music written on sheets is a very new thing in the scope of civilization,
While like I said its not necessary to innovate having a complete grasp of things, I'm going to take exception to this. Written forms of music has likely existed as long as there's been written words for literature. Greeks, Ancient Chinese, and Babylonian civilizations all had forms of it during their heyday.
Read Richard Taruskin’s first volume of the history of western music. Near the start he discusses the difference between oral musical traditions that used protonotation for reference, versus the fully written out 12 tone scale that became the basis of a literate tradition. The latter was not developed until the mid Middle Ages.
Protonotation was not necessarily used to “learn” music. For example early church singers learned orally and only referred back to symbols which represented a section of a melody. (Gary Tomlinson, probably the only true ‘evolutionary musicologist’ and scholar of renaissance music, also often discusses the difference between connotative gesture calls, an “analog” connection to a concept, emotion, or an entire protomusical phrase, versus discrete pitch, a “digital” manner of organizing pitch at the minuscule level).
This isn’t to say that it was a clean break, for a few reasons. The two existed simultaneously in different areas; Protonotation still relies on discrete pitch perception, of course, and today people still often learn “literate” music orally (i.e. everyone knows happy birthday, conductors/instrumental teachers sing through things and teach by example, and of course the Beatles is another interesting example).
It is usually difficult to determine where notations from antiquity fall on this sliding scale but I would argue they are much closer to protonotation. For example, Roman comedies had performance instruction (modes and rhythm) inscribed into the meter. But this doesn’t actually give much information. The specifics of playing Tibia for different events/plays still would have been taught orally and had allegedly been an Etruscan tradition for time immemorial.
What we CAN say is that fully formed musical literacy with note-by-note notation allowed for easier access to a much wider world of musical possibility. The most specific ideas could be transmitted over geographical distance and easily disseminated to every literate-music-playing citizen. Any literacy of this kind is bound to create self-referential development (think of Darwin’s theory of evolutionary logic opening the door to fine-tooth studies and details, or the invention of the electron microscope).
So no, they are not the same. But the Beatles had the advantage of operating in a world where musical literacy had existed for hundreds of years and pushed an overall understanding of music to a certain point. If anything, their anti intellectual method of composition and it’s subsequent popularity was in part a reaction to over-formalized musical literacy that had caused an artificial separation between audience and product. It’s no accident that postmodern academic music like Boulez and John Cage was considered “important” at the same time the Beatles were popular.
This seems inaccurate to me. Most of the tin pan alley guys were reading sheet music and lead sheets have been around pretty much since jazz has been around.
Depends on the type of jazz tbh. For big band stuff they always stuck to sheet music because it was all much more composed - but for smaller combos traditionally lead sheets are only used for you to keep track of the form and remind you of chords. The actual notes you play however would be mostly improvised.
Usually the melody is played verbatim for the first and last verse, with improvisation happening in between. Unless you are playing free jazz and intentionally subverting the form.
Yep, but pros generally know all the standard melodies by heart, they don't really need the sheet music for that. It'd be a lot more difficult to improvise well otherwise.
I agree with you, but they probably learned all of those songs by reading the lead sheets. For more complicated songs the sheet music is essential; I don't know of anyone who learned Giant Steps by ear, there's just too much density to learn it effectively. The pianist famously had trouble following along even with the sheet music.
I know this was not your point but I am running with it. FUCK SHEET MUSIC. You think Jay-Z was doing “Every Good Boy Deserves Fudge”? Hell naaaaaaa, G! (That is a pun) era era
Yeah I love when famous musicians say they don’t know music theory but they can play jazz. That’s exactly how Paul was. He claimed he didn’t know theory but what he meant was he doesn’t read sheet music. Cause he knew how jazz chord progressions work and understood complex harmonic ideas so he definitely knew music theory.
He doesn't even need to know the theory. It can just 'feel' right to him. People don't need to know the name "lydian mode" or scale to be able to play do-re-mi-..
They're often credited with the popularity of the 14521 chord structure. I also have a hard time believing people cant figure out what the chord is unless the recording quality is distorting it. There are a number of people with perfect pitch that are impossible to fool on that kind of thing.
There’s also a high degree of pretension when it comes to people thinking more complex music is better inherently. Nothing in life is like that, usually it’s the opposite.
Some of the chord progressions were pretty dang complicated. “Julia” comes to mind. “I am the Walrus” was somehow able to use A B C D E F and G major all together in one song although the major version of all the letters are very hard to make jive together all in one song. They did a lot of very inventive complicated stuff like that.
Their chord progressions and harmonic ideas are quite a bit more complex than a lot of pop music that came after it. Specifically if we compare it to the model of acoustic guitar driven rock. The Beatles chord progressions make Taylor Swifts chord progressions look like stick figure doodles.
even the early stuff is sneakily sophisticated from a music theory perspective. and they definitely cared a lot about music and trying to learn how it worked, there are stories of them taking the bus to go see someone on the outskirts of town that could teach them a new chord. Information like that was harder to come by back then
Bohemian Rhapsody peaked at number 9 in 1975
roundabout by yes peaked at number 13 in 1972
Paranoid Android by Radiohead peaked at number 21 (UK singles) in 1997
I don't disagree, I just want to give some attention to songs with complication that made it to the big boards. I also have no doubt that their earlier music (like I want to hold your hand) is simple but it works
They are not "mostly known" for inspiring just modern pop. The Beatles influenced a ton of different bands like Queen (uncomplicated?) and Ozzy Osbourne, who in turn influenced Metallica (modern pop?), My Chemical Romance, etc.
It is very uncomplicated. Big big majority of pop music is nursery rhyme level of complicated. Songs such as Beyonce- Single Ladies or Willow - symptom of life are exceptions, not the rule.
You just listed three examples over the span of 22 years, neither of which was number 1 and the most recent of which was nearly 30 years ago. Those are anomalies, not anything remotely resembling the norm.
Perhaps it wasn't, but their music got more experimental and complicated the more popular they got, which shouldn't be downplayed. Ditto Brian Wilson, although I've heard that Pet Sounds is deemed more "complex" for a pop album relative to something like Sgt Peppers.
The Beatles and their "granny music" probably led to carbon copy bands that play meh and simple pop songs, but their later stuff also probably pushed pop music in more experimental avenues and likely influenced the rise of other bands who push boundaries- its quite an interesting legacy
> although I've heard that Pet Sounds is deemed more "complex" for a pop album relative to something like Sgt Peppers.
Funnily enough Pet Sounds was an inspiration for the Beatles as they were going in to record Sgt. Peppers, they weren't trying to ape it but they definitely took some inspiration from the harmonic complexity and layered instrumentation that Brian Wilson was pushing.
The Beatles never really showed off their complexities, but they weren't simple either. The average pop listener can enjoy them but especially the later stuff got pretty intricate.
I don't know a lot of Oasis songs but I'd venture to say the same for them too- Wonderwall gets ridiculed as a beginner guitar song but has a fair few nuances that make it closer to an intermediate level.
Their music is a little bit complicated. Its not Mozart or anything, but it is something.They use some really inventive chords in really unexpected places for what feel like simple pop songs. This video breaks down the progression for Penny Lane:
https://youtu.be/v1rlPl5trG8?si=6j-CWiYSuIYOhhVO
What lol? Do you think I hate Beatles because I call their music simple? Sometimes I love simple music sometimes I love complicated.
You will see me listen Beatles and Camel you don't really commit to some type.
A: the Beatles kinda suck.
B: the music they played was super simple so it could be written without knowing how to read music.
C: they didn't do drugs. They just acted like they did.
Yeah, I have never really understood the “don’t read sheet music” thing. “Okay, this is a Treble clef and the loop indicates that line is a G. The lines and spaces go in alphabetical order G, A,B,C, D, E…, so what would a mark on the top line indicate?”
*Cucumber?*
“Okay, let’s try it this way: Every good boy deserves fudge. E, G, B, D, and?”
*Winston Churchill?*
“Okay, Paul, put that joint down and now if I make a dot right here, what note would that represent?”
*tea kettle?*
Understanding sheet music and reading sheet music are two different skills. It's like being able to speak or read some parts of a language vs talking to someone who's fluent. Like, I was a musician when I was a kid and could read sheet music like a book, but then I stopped playing for about twelve years and now I can't read it anymore even though I know what I'm looking at. The problem is being able to read it at the same pace or faster than what you're actually playing, and if you're familiar with the instrument then there are easier ways of going about learning a song (especially in this age of video tutorials).
It's particularly common when it comes to guitarists. I actually don't know any guitarists who read sheet music while playing, because why would you? Piano is a lot more complicated since it's double staffed
You were speaking words before you were able to read words. Do you really not find it hard to understand? You make it sound like they were just too stupid to understand when in reality they probably use didn’t need to read sheet music, so they didn’t bother.
Sheet music exists to be sold. End of story. I wrote out the Funeral for Queen Mary as performed in a clockwork orange and made a video showing how to do it on a synthesizer. The video got popular very quickly and then I was promptly threatened with a. Lawsuit. For a 200 year old song. They made me take the video down and the sheet music. Which troubled me because it got like 100,000 views on YouTube in a day. Back in 2016. I put it back up though. I just didn't link the sheet music. Didn't gain the same traction.
its cause its written by people who dont know how to read sheet music cause they didnt spend the whole 15 minutes it takes to understand it (that doesnt include the other knowledge needed for context i.e. notes/timing which takes longer).
So they assume its some deep complex language. Its not, its easy. The beatles *could* read sheet music, but at the same time they didnt *need* to.
They have their hits in the beginning. I have a good mind to say most of the music was stolen, as is tradition. But then everything after rubber soul is actually music worth listening to.
And they didn't exist in a vacuum. They had producers, songwriters, and fucking Yoko Ono. Just because you're listed as the songwriter on an album. Doesn't mean you wrote the song. You can pay someone to give you the songwriting credit.
imma say something controversial...
the only good beatle song is "help" cause it sound like a high noon western type beat.
the rest is so boring it gives me a headache. like I respect their success cause they were the first boy band but they are still just a boy band.
Probably the worst successful music group in human history. Only Americans obsessed with British culture actually "like" them. In reality they were only ever popular because people were high as fuck on weed and/or LSD when listening to their horrendous slop.
Adam Neely explained it like sheet music being like reading a recipe from a cookbook.
It can help to replicate it, but someone doesn’t need to know how to write it or read it to understand cooking and its finer points.
Kurt Cobain supposedly didn’t even know any chords. While I kinda doubt that, it’s impressive how creative he could be without any real music theory knowledge.
It's all about articulation and experience. By experience i mean both in creating music and listening to it. I know very little theory but building songs in key comes natural in recent years.
Time travel. They went back in time to be rock stars when rock stars actually meant something. Paul died so they got an alternate reality version of him to replace him.
Im impressed by beethoven being deaf more than wonder being blind. Sure beethoven lost his hearing later in life. But i feel like being able to hear is kind of necessary in making music
Not really at the level of Beethoven. If he had been deaf all his life, that would be a different story, but he definitely knew how things sounded in his head AND he knew how they should sound as well. It’s not like he had been spending his entire life composing music or anything… If John Williams becomes deaf tomorrow, you bet he can still wrote a fucking score.
Understanding music theory isn't the same as being good at making music; music theory is just the terminology we use to explain music (mainly to other musicians so they can replicate it.) You can have a good feel for rhythm and chord progressions without necessarily being able to explain it with words.
The Beatles aren’t a prog band. Their understanding of music theory was average. They just wrote good songs at a good time and had the right mix of factors to be the biggest band in the world. It’s mostly pop tunes, even some of the more creative ones
sheet music is just a language to convey ideas, you can understand ideas and concepts without the proper words or symbols to describe them, or any words or symbols at all.
Music is a primal thing that you can more or less figure out on your own by examining what sounds good and what sounds bad. Theory is pretty simple when it comes down to it, and it’s only a set of guidelines, not rules.
Love it when people use facts like this to avoid learning how to read music/music theory. It's the same exact argument as "Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg didn't need to graduate college to be successful, so why should I?" Like, sure, some people are naturally gifted and don't need to learn things the traditional way, but there's a reason music theory has been taught for hundreds of years, because it really fucking works if you aren't naturally gifted but still want to learn music.
Just about anyone can become a good musician. Some people are born with an insane amount of natural talent and don't need to learn things the traditional way to be extremely skilled, yet most people aren't born with this talent. If they want to be just as skilled, they need to find a way to teach themselves everything that the "natural" person was born with, and through thousands of years of trial and error, the modern western form of music notation and theory seems to be the best way to do that.
Probably because their music was made in the 60s and 70s where the audio quality was so shit no one noticed. That and all their fans were boomers and thus had no taste
The beetles early work is dead simple and is closer to modern boy bands and pop music than their later work. Id even argue they where the first boy band or pop group to exist. Go listen to their first album. Its genuinely bad compared to even modern pop music but thats a bit of a cop out considering modern pop music has a lot more cooks in the kitchen.
All you need is love is a good example and its probably their most famous song in their early work. Its so hilariously bad at times.
Their later work is very similar but with more experimental shift and they did get better. Not by any crazy amount but they had better albums.
They have shit theory but its catchy as hell which is why its so popular. Catchy does not make a song good if thats the case baby shark is one of the best songs ever written.
You can tell a song is good by what you hear and what you feel, not by what you know.
Music theory is just the study of why the good stuff is good. It's not a requirement to make something good.
As a matter of fact, good music had to have come before the study of the goodness of music.
Sure, different things sound good to different people, but there are always commonalities and throughlines that transcend preference and style.
It is somewhat rare for a person to understand all of this intuitively whether they study it or not, but the few who do can catch lightning in a bottle if they chase it hard enough.
To be fair the Beatles were good for lyrics and persona but technically they were absolutely terrible. Just... remember their awful Japan tour, where people were TOO respectful to scream and go nuts and instead sat down and paid close attention. Fun fact, getting stoned out of your mind is fantastic when you're terrified to go on stage or for giving a crazy good performance but don't expect to get your notes right when you are hearing birds instead of your bandmates.
>but technically they were absolutely terrible
> remember their awful Japan tour, where people were TOO respectful to scream and go nuts and instead sat down and paid close attention.
How are those two sentences expected to provide any context? You cant just string random sentences together
Sheet music and music theory are unrelated in this case. You can be fluent in English, understand the entirety of it's grammar and words, but be only able to speak it, not write it. The two don't contradict. It's the same for music
Also there are more ways to write down music than sheet music. In theory, you usually use just notes (C E G), numbers (1 3 5) or roman numerals in lower or upper case (i, V, II)
My toddlers play piano has keys defined in colors and the “sheet music” is literally the sequence of colors to press.
Another thing to note is that some jazz musicians will play off each other in a band and will not know what others will play. It’s like talking, you wait for someone to talk then you respond with something based on the input of the person talking. You don’t necessarily need to be literate to talk (it helps a great deal in communicating but is not a requirement).
Just like how you can remember a conversation in your head (even being able to replicate the conversation with the person) you can remember sequence of events when playing in a band.
Your comparison is only relevant to sheet music. In order to word around words and make coherent and rich sentences, you need to understand at the very least basic syntactical theory.
Same with music theory.
George Martin wrote most of their music that is too complicated for them to have written themselves. The reason they got "so much better" in Hamburg is because they went to Hamburg to see if they could play his music well enough in a market other than the one they were going to be focusing on. If you listen to the Beatles with even a tiny amount of critical ear you can tell which are George Martin songs and which are actual Lennon/McCartney songs-- and don't get me wrong, they actually had talent and skill, which is why George Martin chose them for this project in the first place, and kudos to him for letting them have as much creative input as he did, because I assume most producers in this situation would have had a more "shut up and play my music" attitude.
>Thinks the ability to read sheet music is the same as the ability to make decent music
https://preview.redd.it/gwd5qt6ld2hd1.jpeg?width=4152&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=07a961f5c2251581859a2cc33e85130f613afe7b
Music theory is just a tool used to communicate musical ideas with others. You don't necessarily need to know much of it to compose but it doesn't hurt. Most rock bands just learn to play what sounds good to them.
Guys since we are talking about Beatles can you please tell me your favorite album I just started to listening to them. Here are the ones I already know:
- Revolver
- Rubber soul
- Sgt Pepper
- Magical mistery your
- A hard day's night
A musician friendo once told me the less you know about theory sometimes give you more creativity. Its like the middle point doesnt work. Or you know little or you know everything thats when you use your full creative capacity.
I hate when I see this shit said, and its almost always zoomers or late millennials saying it without understanding anything about what the fuck they're listening to now came from. Its as if thousands of musicians didn't learn guitar by trying to play Blackbird, they all learned playing Bach and Mozart and modern music styles just appeared out of thin air.
Granted you can't credit the entirety of western modern music to the Beatles, and there were plenty of other bands from that era that were doing different things and contributed in other ways, but FFS they're not overrated it just got incorporated into later shit and that's why you don't think its special.
Indeed there were a multitude of better guitarists, vocalists, drummers, bassists and songwriters and pretending that the sole reason for that were the Beatles seems a bit pretentious
Nah because Jimi Hendrix, Steppenwolf, Bee Gees, CCR and the Rolling Stones are actually good.
Actually yeah maybe like I said their music is too cookie cutter for me, too much sing along feeling and too much pop for my tastes.
Nah just don’t like their cookie cutter Music, for the time that they played in their music sounds incredibly boring to me with a few exceptions, while they sure did influence the musical scene and gave other artists the courage to try out new things for me their music just didn’t hit like the bee gees or steppenwolfs.
John went to an arts college, Paul's family literally were musicians, George while not from a musical family did attend school with Paul, and no doubt knew some notes. Ringo I am certain could read music (though I dont know this from reading anything, but that he was a session player).
The idea that they \*couldnt\* read music I think is ridiculous, I have played music all my life, its incredibly easy, the thing is though I dont \*need\* to, I can legit hear a song, some notes, whatever and play that shit note by note, hell I might even adlib in the middle of it and I am no where \*near\* as good as a real musician/session player, much less demigods like any of those guys.
Anon, of course has no concept of inante, natural skill. Or a production team, or a studio.
Mozart was playing in the Courts of Europe and *annotating and correcting* Court composers who were literally inventing new styles of decades and centuries old sheet music.
Most musicians are capable to play the song in their head with all the instruments knowing almost exactly what they need to do. Especially for any simpler music.
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