> bad story with white people
meh just a bad game
> bad story with black people
HOW DARE THEY FUCKING WOKE GEN Z DEI GOD DAMN SWEET BABY INC RUINING MY BIDEO GAME
\>Make a game starring white people
\>People say it's bad
\>"Darn guess we'll have to try harder next time."
​
\>Make a game starring non-white people
\>People say it's bad
\>"FUCK YOU THE GAME IS PERFECT IF YOU HATE IT YOU'RE RACIST"
The only one that had actual controversy out of the ones you mentioned was Assassins' Creed. I'll agree it was blown out of proportion considering AC never meant to be a representation of X country, but it is fishy to put a black male MC in a game set in Japan.
Ultimately a game set in feudal Japan should be japanese, but that's just my opinion.
> Paper mario
This barely sparked any outrage.
>Hades 2
>
>Stellar Blade "censorship"
These two were hand in hand. The same people who criticized Stellar Blade for being too sexualized were gushing over Hades 2's designs, which is pretty hypocritical, and was called out as such. Hades 2 itself didn't get a lot of criticism save for some people who disliked the designs. I remember people talking about Hestia (and let's be fair, that design is horrid) and that's it.
Stellar Blade was "censored" in the eyes of many because of the announcements leading up to its release and how certain outfits changed day 1. Some people speculate it was simply a design choice pushed too late. We'll never know I guess.
Forspoken, on the other hand, is a legitimately terrible game that got defenders uniquely because it has a non-sexualized black female lead, but most of the criticism was on the art direction, gameplay, dialogue, direction and world design. Hence why I pointed at it.
First off it’s millennials doing this shit atm.
Second; when a story is more concerned with virtue signaling, surface level political messaging, and identity politics, it’s clear that’s the issue with the plot. Plus the creative team will use those politics as a shield for criticism of their mediocre writing
I thin its more because if they know game is trash, because at some point someone has to see a steaming pile of shit, they know that actual gamers will shittalk and wont buy the game in the first place, so they turn on making the performative "wokeness" the selling point to recoup some losses on people who will buy just to own the chuds or something. If you are confident in your product you sell the product and not how ethical or how many women worked on it
Personally I think it's rather telling when people will say "it's cause the writings is good" but will still immediately start complaining about minorities existing if the writing is bad.
It implies that you think minorities never really naturally exist in storytelling so if it's good writing then it was something that was overcome and if it was bad writing then the writers were clearly including them as some kind of crutch.
Otherwise why bring it up in one case but consider it irrelevant in another?
Sure, but there's a lot of space between "immediately complaining about minorities" and just not playing that particular game or watching that particular movie. I don't think it's racist of an intermittent white male movie goer to skip a Marvel movie promoted around girl power or a film about an all-black gang of cowboys in the Wild West, just as I wouldn't call a black person racist for not being particularly drawn to Game of Thrones. Similarly, I don't expect most people to spend $70 on a middling first person rpg for its diverse cast of characters.
I also don't really blame middle-aged nerds for getting upset when their precious IP gets rebooted in a way that discards their own identities, though I think they take that shit too seriously and of course I don't condone being racist about it.
As for the diversity versus quality association: deliberately including or focusing on minorities absolutely doesn't make a game or film bad. That said, a lot of games and movies do so in a calculated PR way, usually paired with a writing team that's excited to lean in and club the audience over the head with it. In my opinion, that usually does make a movie bad.
It definitely narrows the audience, especially when it's one of the primary promotional talking points. The messaging is at best effectively "this movie is kind of for everybody", where most audiences want something for them, specifically. At worst the message is "see this movie or you're a hateful person", which is actually PR poison. Audiences will show up for something that isn't strictly for them, but unless they (a) feel like the thing isn't *not* for them, (b) trust the maker of the thing, and (c) hear that it's at least pretty good, they'll be less motivated to engage with it.
Studios that try to prioritize diversity in their games and movies are in a tough situation. Diversity is about including people of various races, sexualities, and backgrounds, which means the more diversity you add, the shallower the representation of each race or sexuality shown is going to be. Worse, the more diluted your organic appeal to any specific racial or cultural identity will be.
For example, I expect Encanto was really popular with Latino / Latina audiences. I also expect that black people make up more of the audience of House of the Dragon (which features some prominent black characters from the start) than they did of the audience of OG Game of Thrones (which didn't).
Encanto was a critical success because it was a great movie made by a studio that was already well known and had a stellar reputation. It could have done as well critically if an unknown studio had made it, but fewer people outside of the core audience that it was made for and represents would have heard of it or been drawn to it, or trusted that the movie was for them, too.
It can also be tough to work diversity into the theme of a film or game in a resonant way, especially if the theme itself isn't really about diversity. If most races and sexualities are present, a writer has to either (a) try to really establish and pay tribute to each one's identity in the limited screen time they have, or (b) not really focus on the diverse part of their identity. Both can be bad for different reasons, with (a) feeling pandering and (b) feeling token. This is especially a problem in movies, which have a lot to accomplish in 90ish minutes. For the record, I think (b) is the way to go if the IP doesn't actually have room for the appropriate context and character development, but (a) can be great in something like an RPG or HBO series.
Valve doesn't run into problems with its diversity because it has an ocean of trust, it doesn't market around diversity first, and it makes great games. If the complaints with other IP were actually primarily about racism, Valve would be hearing them, too.
Because characters who exist for the sole purpose of diversity, and who’s personality and existence within the story is that they’re a minority, is bad writing. So having characters that aren’t that is good.
And it's kind of weird that a poorly written white guy gets to just be a poorly written white guy but every other kind of character suddenly gets questioned of ulterior motives for even existing in the story.
It’s not weird, as in it obviously makes sense. Minorities are minorities because they are a minority, overwhelming majority of the „west” is some flavour of white. Plus nobody really mentions being white themselves unless it’s some kind of racists caricature, so poorly written white man is a poorly written white man, but black latinx asian womanx who will have lines about her sexuality and slavery will be an obvious eye sore.
Many people think that being a minority is political in and of itself, but obviously nobody’s mere existence is political. Nobody decided to be born brown or gay.
Bad writers clearly have this same issue when they act like a minority’s whole personality revolves around their identity as a minority, showing that they don’t bother trying to understand the minorities they’re writing, or see them as a token rather than the person.
I think the most obvious example of this was the “exagerrated swagger of a black teen” review.
> I think the most obvious example of this was the “exagerrated swagger of a black teen” review.
Wait, where does this come from? I thought it was just a random meme.
It's also *how* you include the political commentary into the story. People don't like to be preached at.
Like being an organic part of the resistance against a tyrannical government is cool. Having the in-game podcaster telling you what you just did and how you should feel about it is not.
Can you point us towards many games with characters talking about slavery? Racist caricature writing for minorities is still just shitty writing or voice acting. If we had a game where you had a character with a shitty Jamaican accent be the only thing unique about their character thats just lazy writing, no one was trying to represent Jamaicans.
I'm sure Tyler Perry has had some off characters (based on how prolific his movie making is) but you never see his movies getting racial blow back. I have seen a few on tv they star mostly a black cast and seem ok.
Tyler Perry is not a respected figure with a good amount of black people. Not anymore at least. His depiction of black relationships, struggles and general film production has been widely criticised. No one under 45 likes Tyler Perry
He doesn’t get blowback because he’s a black man writing movies for black people. A lot of times when a piece of media comes out and it’s for the general public rather than the represented minority people start whining.
That's my point it's not about the individual races it's about being forced fed an ideology. Shitts creek is a great example of love story with two gay men and not a gay love story. The writing is great and the characters are great, one of the characters is also gay but the show isn't about that. The best part is the happy ending. (Spoilers)
Although I agree with your points for the most part, I think that part of the "writing is good" argument attacks characters placed into stories to fill some sort of diversity quota. Rather than making them actually well written characters, they end up as flanderizations of characters which are often easily pointed to by actual racists as a low-hanging, cherry picked example of "minority characters in media are always bad."
Additionally, the minorities suddenly coming into existence when the writing is bad tracks for this. If the writing of a certain piece of media is utter shit, the racists will point at the black man in it and say "this character is horribly written and was forced into the story by the woke liberal agenda" despite the character not being placed in for the sake of a quota at all. While there'll always be people doing this, even to well written characters, it's much harder to do so to them. "Grrrr there's a black guy in my piece of media" "well that piece of media is actually amazing and enjoyed by the majority of its consumers, maybe diversity is a good thing?"
Now should we really give a shit about a character's race in the first place? Not really. If they're out of place for the time period/area they're in then perhaps it could be explained by the story (eg Live Action Little Mermaid takes place in the Caribbean to explain the cast's diversity) but it's really a non issue as a whole.
Yeah. I'd take these complaints more seriously if this sub and 4chan as a whole wasn't bitching about the Fallout show depicting a woman and black man as the protagonists.
Because those games came out pre-2014, before GamerGate collectively broke every single terminally online mfer's brain.
When Deadlock comes out I know there will be some dumb motherfuckers saying Valve went woke.
Half-Life Alyx came out in 2020 and ended with
SPOILERS!
The G-Man firing Gordon and replacing him with Alyx.
Nobody complained that "THEY REPLACED THE WHITE MALE WITH A MIXED RACE WOMAN!!!!" because, guess what - the story was good.
It's not about race or GamerGate, the usual game nowadays just tried to check as many boxes as possible.
I mean, understandable. Didn't Gordon already "quit" with the help of the Vortigaunts? I love the idea of the G-Man being so petty that he's like "No actually you can't quit, you're fired!"
Plus Alyx was one of the only other characters in HL2 getting shit done
It probably helped that, by the time her vr game released, she has already been a known character for 16 years already, so well before the echo chambers on major social media would eventually form on account of those social media barely if not even existing yet at the time of half-life 2's release.
I disliked it, but not for any reason to do with Alyx per se, I just like Gordon better.
I like Gordon's background (if the term applies) of just being a generally average egghead who had to pick up a gun and learn how to use it double-quick, or end up as another stain on the floor of Black Mesa.
There will, there were and there will always be dumb motherfuckers. But if the game is good then nobody will care cause the game is good and therefore liked by the majority cause that is what makes a game good.
Yeah you're right on that. The second people got their hands on BG3 and the game turned out to be openly woke; not a single motherfucker complained because it was a phenomenal fucking game.
> got their hands on.
Sure, but i remember people bitching about the gay romance choices in game before the release.
They just know the game was too successful so they shut up about it.
There was a mod which was removed from nexus which attempted to make the game “less gay.”
[forum post about said mod](https://www.neogaf.com/threads/nexus-mods-removes-anti-gay-baldurs-gate-3-mod-update-nexus-are-too-far-lost-in-their-sauce.1664373/page-2)
From a dev perspective it makes sense to allow gay romance to minimize having to re-record voicelines with he/she flipped or hire more voice actors
It's literally just way easier in every way
I honestly couldn’t care less if it was or wasn’t in the game. It affected my experience in zero ways.
The only “lgbt” content I saw in my first playthrough is Dame Aylin making out with the Selunite cleric.
Plus BG3 does what the Gamers^TM who complain about games being woke *say* they want - all the lgbt content in BG3 is entirely unpolitical. There aren't any characters talking about, or plot points related to acceptance or non-acceptance of characters being gay/bisexual/etc - just characters existing in the relationships they want to have.
I honestly cannot name a single character in a video game where being gay is his only/major character trait though. I may be wrong and there may be. But I cannot think of one.
Only one I can think of is Dorian from Dragon Age:inquisition. Even then him being a tevinter mage is far more apart of his personality than being gay. Even then all of that content is really only if you persue conversation/romance with him.
Another is Kaiden from mass effect who is bisexual. Even then you can choose Ashley to save. Or just not pursue romance with the character. Nothing about the character screams “I’m bi” in any of his dialogue.
It's the Alien paradox, where every piece of media with a minority is automatically good of its remembered before all the "politics" happened. Nobody's mad at Half-Life Alyx because then they'd need to be mad at Half Life 2
the real reason is because you barely notice any of these characters. they hardly have lines.
Alyx does, but she's from before incels got made at videogames, so they can't go after valve for adding a minority character that always existed.
If Alyx was a new character just for HL:A, there'd probably be SOME shit
I can count so many games with women in them after HL:A and nobody complained about them
Just admit y'all simp for billion dollar corpos, because you being their white knight is so just humiliating, imagine believing ubisoft or sony add black lesbian womxn because they want they care.
They use it for ESG money and for useful idiots lime you to defend them for free.
You know answer me this: why is "I wani hug that gator" so loved when it has a protagonist a disabled croc lady?
or why is snoot game loved and Vulcano High is total garbage?
I am a hard leftist. I don't simp for billion dollar corpos. And I'm not white knighting. I hate women. All the women I know suck.
I don't think Ubisoft or Sony add black lesbian womxn (thank you for being respectful btw) because they care, at least not 100% of the time. Writists and arters might. But the fact that conservatives complain about the women characters when they're not the main issue, or complain about the women characters for problems that simply don't exist, shows that SOMETIMES (not all the time) it's a sexism thing. Or a racism thing. Who knows?
Why is I Wani Hug That Gator loved? Because SHE'S HOT. THEY'RE JACKING OFF. That's why. Dumbass.
And again, it's not all shows or games. That's why you can point to individual games and say "see? this one didn't get pushback!"
I'm not defending GAME COMPANIES for god's sake. But sometimes the woman character isn't the sole problem with the game. I want game company hierarchies to be torn down and for them to be owned by the workers themselves.
Whats wrong with you? Not only are you actually derranged sexist but your point goes both way, since it's not all games or shows, can you guess why certain games and shows are hated and others are not?
And no it's not women being hot or existing, like you saying Olivia is hot AF says more about you than the devs.
Like maybe if you actually read what people are saying here alone you'd know people arent mostly sexist.
Also I find it very telling that you think conservatives hate women, like you hate women and you are self described hard leftist.
Go simp for a failed alternative to communism, all you are able to be is the useful idiot that gets discarded when his usefullness runs out
ok ok buddy calm doooooown
1. i hate communism and alternatives to communism. I have been banned from every mainstream communist subreddit on this platform just for disagreeing with people. You are more communist than I am.
2. You think I would've honestly, actually just came out and said I hate women, truthfully? For the love of GOD, dude, learn to pick up on sarcasm. Learn to recognize a GOD DAMNED joke. Learn to understand PEAK humor. No, I don't hate women. They are annoying sometimes. I forgive them.
3. obviously conservatives fucking hate women lmao. half of the attacks against Kamala Harris have been calling her a whore. conservatives want bans on abortion. most online righties have a weird creepy kink where women submit to men and they can't help but tell you all about it every day. dennis prager thinks your wife should fuck you even if she doesn't feel like it that day. like come on dude. how do you hate women harder than that?
Ok, remember that guy who looks like a thumb yelling about PRONOUNS(!!!!!) when talking about Starfield? That is proof enough that SOMETIMES, for SOME GAMES, diversity is their problem, not the game itself. Not all the time, not every game, but sometimes.
So now go ahead and do the Reddit thing where you say that that one example of a guy (and the circle he ran in) hating a game for diversity is actually NOT an example of a guy (and the circle he ran in) hating a game for diversity.
I'm gonna go bully my woman friends more. Peace out.
Because they make good games. Even the most hardcore turbo-racists barely care if the game is good. If the game is mid to outright disrespectful to the audience people are gonna find things to hate and the race is an easy angle.
Or, conversely: Often bad games blatantly use race to get out of criticism.
100%. Telltale's The Walking Dead had a black man, a racially ambiguous girl, and a Mexican all as playable characters and got no shit for it. Why? Because the games were good (except TNF) and the characters were well written.
Yep. I think most people just hate bad writing and lazy creative choices. A recent example I can think of is the Avatar live action remake. They removed Sokka's abrasive and sexist character trait because "we're in a different time". The whole point of his character is that he develops as the story continues which makes it even more meaningful when he ends up becoming a very respectable young man capable of self reflection and humility towards the end. Many teenage boys and young men are edgy like that and could definitely relate to his earlier self. If anything, it creates a relatable example that shows you are capable of outgrowing juvenile views, but because of this hand holding can't show anything negative attitude that the internet has cultivated, they lost out on a character that exemplifies what it means to mature and change for the better.
>you are capable of outgrowing juvenile views
I never did and I consider it a character trait. Why change yourself to mend with the crowd when there are enough crowds?
Shhhhhhhhhh! Dont tell them that their brains are not developed enough. Let them write their bad stories and disappear into obscurity. While the original cartoon will be discussed throughout 21st century or longer.
I watched one episode of the new show and then immediately re watched the original. The dialogue is just leagues better in the children's cartoon than the live action show. We should have known it would have been shit when the original creators parted ways with the project.
It gets worse because Sokka's plotline with Suki and the Kyoshi warriors gets MORE sexist than the original.
I'm the original Solka gets jumbled real quick by Suki and Kyoshi, but you sort of have compassion for the guy because he's the only boy left in his village and is in charge of taking care of them.
In the live action, they turn him into a hot stud that Suki constantly pervs and oodles on. That's literally he only purpose in that storyline.
1,000% this
It does nobody a service to remove negative character traits and show good guys as flawed people.
Especially when they will overcome some of their flaws
A lot of people were very upset about playing CJ when San Andreas came out. A game about 90s LA gang culture, and they were made they had to be a black guy.
Exhibit A: Disco Elysium. This game talks about politics all of the time, but the characters are so well crafted that you don't care/enjoy them even if you're disagreeing with them.
Ah maybe, I wouldn't know. I usually avoid checking dedicated game subreddit, because it's usually a cesspool of circlejerking. Or it's the total opposite and we have a hord of bitter fans.
I went on /r/stray to make a light hearted joke about how the game had a downer ending and my three year old was crushed that the cat didn't get to find his friends. I shit you not I got pounced on by a bunch of insufferable dorks telling me that I should have known better than to play Stray with a toddler because it is very clearly a serious piece of high art. A game where you play as a cat running errands for a bunch of colorful robots.
Actually that game did kind of piss me off. I was interviewing a witness who was making chauvinist jokes and I chose to laugh along with him because I thought it might help me get more info out of him if I built rapport. The game immediately slapped me with the "fascist" label, and the next time I spoke with a black person my only dialogue option was "But... you're black!"
Dumb as hell. The guy who told the misogynist joke was even black, for crying out loud!
DE is an AMAZING example, ya. It's made by open communists and is super political but it's also \_good\_ and doesn't box you in.
(Plus I think it helps they're, y'know. Oldschool communists so a lot of the Current Year stuff just sort of goes over their heads).
The racists actually made a game called [Ethnic Cleansing](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing_(video_game)), from a pure gameplay perspective it looks genuinely terrible, only place it belongs is on an iceberg chart of shitty controversial games
The turbo-racists know they won't gain a lot of support and validation from going against something as sacred as valve/hl/portal. They would rather pick something that is a fairly easy target for (you)'s and updoots.
>If the game is mid to outright disrespectful to the audience people are gonna find things to hate and the race is an easy angle.
in other news- I'm going to review bomb cuck simulator both because I couldn't finish the 3 hour walking simulator style tutorial, and because the man who has sex with your wife is African American.
Does [this](https://preview.redd.it/felt-cute-might-delete-v0-o2dctnruspda1.jpg?auto=webp&s=2c9244fdfa164ee9076716c399c4dd7ed45a28fb) gigachad of a man look like just a guy to you?
You don't understand, the German engineer definitely needs to say "Ja" and "Nein" instead of yes and no, how else would the audience know he's German if we didn't even let him be a nazi?
These days games get shit for having a minority shown in the preview. The story doesn't even get a chance to mention or not mention them before the hate starts rolling in.
yeah because it's a cliche at this point to put "diverse" characters in game or show with basically no personality or an insufferable personality. it can all be fixed with better writing but a lot of the times when you look behind the scenes, you find out that their priority wasn't the writing nor respecting the source material.
they typically aren't just upset because there is a "minority", the current day "politics" is what actually influenced the conversation this way because it wasnt really that big of a deal like 10-15 years ago.
Even to this day I almost never hear a bad word about well written diverse characters. Maybe there's some chatter from one or two rage bait YouTubers but certainly everyone I talk to in real life doesn't have a problem with well written characters. It's only the characters that are diverse for the sake of being diverse also the horrific writing that usually accompanies them.
Because probably 75% of the time these days it's gonna be shitty character directly because of the DEI writing. I'll always give whatever it is a shot but I don't blame people for immediately judging it because pattern recognition is a thing.
I'm not saying it's right just that I understand completely why it happens. I even fall into that trap sometimes myself. But still it's hard to get out of when the majority of the time your proven right.
To that I'd say certain people don't give a shit if they are proven right or wrong. They are just better heard if they are "right".
Quality is not really a concern to them.
To be fair though then that just means the entire game sucked unless you are specifically calling out the diverse characters writing. If that's the case I don't see how it's a "woke" issue when the entire game is just a shit cash grab.
they usually are talking about the whole game.
and it usually stems from them prioritizing promoting the character or game as super diverse and for "modern audiences".
look at concord for example, it's clear they put waaaay more thought into trying to make the cast diverse and inclusive, rather then actually trying to design a good game. people were calling it when they first saw the designs and they were right.
same thing with Battlefield 5
the best aspect about your game shouldn't just be that the characters are diverse
The only thing GTA 6 could do that would actually bring them hate is to introduce predatory microtransactions into singleplayer, which they are 100% going to do
No, it’s because chuds got bold with the Gamergate movement and now the degenerate youtube creators will decry any game where female characters don’t make their pp hard.
Then their fan base, who cannot think for themselves. Gobble that shit up and repeat the same talking points a man child who hasn’t touched an actual woman gave them.
Feminist said games were sexist in their portrayal of women. Chuds freaked the fuck out. Giving her more of a platform than she would’ve gotten if they just ignored her.
Ever since then, content creators found out the “culture war” bullshit worked getting YouTube clicks.
Gamergate was gamers being pissed off the gaming journalism was nepotism and corruption Central since "it wasn't real journalism" they could get away with it. The mostly female "journalists" who got called out for being bad actors or just bad at their job lashed out and made it an issue between the sexes. And because feminism dictates we must listen and believe all women and that men are vile pieces of shit we got the narrative you believe.
The women involved even began to make up rape and death threats to cement their position using the same exact tactics they'd been using in gaming journalism.
Alright, so I’m a bit wrong too.
>The Gamergate campaign was sparked by the release in 2013 of Zoë Quinn’s game Depression Quest. The game received acclaim from game critics and praise from mental health professionals, but it also spurred a backlash from a vocal minority in the online gaming community because its subject was depression. Although interactive fiction was among the oldest and most established genres in the history of video games, the text-driven interior monologue style of Quinn’s game was disparaged as boring. In short, Depression Quest was no Call of Duty.
>In August 2014 Depression Quest debuted to a much larger audience when it was released on Steam, one of the world’s largest PC gaming distribution platforms. Days later, a former boyfriend of Quinn’s wrote a long post on the Penny Arcade and Something Awful forums that accused her of deceptive and manipulative behaviour during their relationship. Although both sites hastily removed the posts, the contents were copied by users on the anonymous forum 4chan. 4chan posters crafted a narrative that accused Quinn of having had a physical relationship with a journalist in order to obtain a positive review of her game and to advance her career. Although the accusations were proved false, Quinn became the focus of an online sexual harassment campaign, which included threats of rape and death, on sites such as Reddit and 4chan. After the latter forum banned further discussion of Gamergate, commentary on the controversy migrated to 8chan (later 8kun).
So the bias in journalism argument was based in rumor and nothing else.
>Gamergate widened its focus to target other prominent women in the gaming community, including Jenn Frank, who wrote about gaming for The Guardian and other publications; Anita Sarkeesian, a feminist blogger and critic of the portrayal of women in video games; and Brianna Wu, an independent video game developer and blogger. These women, who were labeled “social justice warriors” in Internet forums, were threatened online with physical harm. “Next time she shows up at a conference,” read one anonymous post on Quinn, “we…give her a crippling injury that’s never going to fully heal.” When Sarkeesian was scheduled to speak at Utah State University in October 2014, the school was threatened with a massacre of women on campus. “I have at my disposal a semi-automatic rifle, multiple pistols, and a collection of pipe bombs,” read the threat. One Twitter account targeting Wu was named “Death to Brianna.”
totally just bias in journalism.
>In addition to being subjected to physical threats, the women were doxxed (personal information, such as their home addresses and phone numbers, was made public online). That common online trolling behaviour caused Quinn to leave her home and cancel public appearances. Several people who spoke out against Gamergate were targets of “swatting,” wherein a hoax 911 call, typically describing an especially hazardous ongoing crime, such as a hostage situation, is made in an attempt to send a heavily armed police force to the target’s address.
No threats what so ever.
>As the Gamergate controversy continued, major tech companies, including Intel, temporarily pulled their ads from some gaming sites. The harassment and discussions kept raging on Twitter and other social media platforms. 8chan continued to host the derogatory messages and became heavily associated with extreme-right groups. Participants in the online forums framed attempts to curtail their discussions as an infringement of their free speech rights and legitimate concerns over ethics in video game journalism.
Make threats, ads pull out, scream “censorship”
>In 2015 the U.S. Supreme Court ruled in Elonis v. United States that cyber harassment alone does not qualify as a punishable crime. Proof of intent to commit a crime is necessary. However, critics of Gamergate have called such anti-woman harassment campaigns a form of misogynistic terrorism and have argued that such threats should be prosecuted under existing terrorism laws. A significant portion of the male online gaming community has been labeled “toxic” and “poisonous,” and its actions have been described as rooted in deep fears about women gaining increasing control in the gaming industry.
little ridiculous from both sides here. But still issues we deal with today with the culture war nonsense.
Btw, all journalism is biased. They are corporate entities. Of course they are bias to what helps their owners make money. Usually, making threats on people causes advertisers to pull ads and that is bad for making money.
I’m banned from both of those subs.
https://preview.redd.it/eksfkl7ecufd1.jpeg?width=186&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=cba37297f8d07e7108b5364f8b3235e2489eae75
Fat balding man decried Starfield letting you pick the pronouns.
Starfield. A game you can criticize for a fuckload of things. This guy had to rant about pronouns. Of all fucking things. Something which takes 3 seconds to choose in the game.
But yea. It’s because “it’s shoved down your throat” (chuds love using that phrase, which is super gay).
Choice of pronouns fall right in line with the woke bullshit garbage. "Fat balding man" was right to call it out.
When woke bs is around every corner, by definition that is "shoved down our throats". Study up on Nazi propaganda...that's how they do it.
And you brought up my profile history which is an ad hominem attack.
You couldn’t attack my points so you attacked my personal history.
Get fucked jabroni.
You know that trailers exist right? Those trailers give an indication of what the game will be like. Based on past experience of trailers, then the game being released, people can get a good idea of what the game will be like. Sometimes it's possible to know that woke slop will be pushed down your throat just by watching a trailer.
Imma be honest the amount of seethe that I saw over this goes way beyond shitty hip hop music. You can claim whatever you want but the amount of back lash doesn’t seem proportional over an ubishit asscreed game
It's mainly due to the plot being heavy on the human enslavement and declining to extinction thing. Ah... when writers keep focused on what matters, magic happens, and stupid shit is kept at bay.
It's kind of like a joke I usually say:
"The show Family Matters is good because the show assumes you're smart enough to not be told they're a black family every episode."
The thing is, when your story has nothing to do with race, you can just make them whatever race/gender you want and never make it an issue. Imagine if the subnautica protagonist was just some Indian dude, it wouldn’t alter the story in any fundamental way. Gordon freeman coulda been a black woman, who cares
She is responding. She shoots her portalgun wildly in the air, she jumps, crouches, flails her face around, nods or shakes her head constantly (or at least i do)
Well that or seeing how portal 1 was really not a big project and was just thrown into the orange box because why not I think they just didnt have the budget or just didnt want a voiced protagonist. It was very normal at the time to not have your POV character talk after all
Yeah I heard similar. Not sure how true it is but I heard Portal 1 was more like a tech demo for some mechanics valve wanted to play with, in a similar way to Lost Coast. I’ve only heard this from around the web years ago though.
Every valve game is a demo of some kind. They wont make a game if theyre not making a breakthrough tech/business wise. Which makes me very curious on what they are cooking that’s new for their upcoming game.
Oh god that might mean a new type of microtransaction / player economy, like how artifact wanted to be the digital version of mtg with its card trading.
It’s not the worst thing in the world, but I hate the item system. You know how in MOBAs you can get stat checked by someone with more gold than you? Same thing here.
I don’t mind it in MOBAs, because aim isn’t a central mechanic to the game- but in this, it’s a third-person shooter. Aim is incredibly important, yet you can lose to someone with worse aim if they have better items, as long as their aim isn’t totally in the gutter.
A lot more room for error because you still have to aim, and aiming in games at a competent level is difficult, but it can be, yeah.
Again, when I say it's a hybrid Overwatch and Dota, I literally mean it's *a hybrid Overwatch and Dota.*
Maybe don't be a full item behind people in a moba????
And honestly even if you are you can realistically still outplay and 1v1 people who are ahead of you if you just play around movement, terrain, and abilities instead of just blinding aiming at somebodies head whilst ignoring the rest of the mechanics and hoping it works.
the game is not overwatch with moba elements it's a moba with hero shooter elements
Not quite- this isn't like CSGO or Tarkov where people get blown up quickly- this is more like Overwatch, where there is a very long time-to-kill. But let's say you didn't collect gold as well as the other guy, he's just going to have better/more items, so he's allowed to hit less bullets than you are, because his bullets may do, say, 15 damage, but yours only do 10, since he's an item up.
Same thing applies to League and other MOBAs, where if you're just simply lower on gold, you're sort of "supposed to lose" the 1v1 unless you're a straight up counter-class.
I’ll take your word for it, HL1 and Unreal were the first shooters I ever played as a kid. For tough parts I’d make my dad play and read the Prima’s Official Strategy Guide to him while he did
Tf2 literally birth lootbox into existence.
Dota2 birth battlepass.
Artifact try to force the trading/buying-selling individual card like irl TCG. ( and failed miserably )
Portal 1 was a low budget game made to fill out the orange box and was inspired by a game called narbacular deop which had portal mechanics.
I thi k valve also hired some of the people who worked on it
Portal 1 started development at valve after Robin Walker (a developer at valve) attended the digipen Institute of Technology's career fair (digipen is a university in Washington) and saw the game narbacular drop which was a puzzle game made by a few students at Digipen using portals as its main mechanic.
Robin Walker after being impressed with the game invited them to show it off at Valve's HQ where Gabe Newell hired them on the spot. They then got to work with only up to 10 people (different amounts of people worked on it at different times) at creating what became Portal 1.
After how much of a success the first game was and how fun it turned out to be basically everyone at valve wanted to work on the sequel which is why it's a lot grander in scope (although it was supposed to be a VERY different game originally, not even using portals).
There are some REALLY good mods and fan games for portal 2 that don't use portals. Been absolute years since I've thought of them so I don't remember any names but go look some up and have a blast
It was supposed to use a completely different puzzle mechanic called F-stop at the time as at the time Valve envisioned the series exploring different puzzle mechanics in each installment.
F-Stop iirc would have been a mechanic similar to superliminal where you could freeze an object on your screen by using a camera and by changing your perspective you would change its real size.
The game was supposed to be a prequel story wise and would explore old aperture science which the portal 2 that actually released eventually ofc also did.
NGL I just double checked wikipedia after I wrote it to make sure I remembered correctly so should be accurate unless both me and whoever wrote that Wikipedia article are hallucinating.
Man I miss those times where it was normal for pov characters not to talk. I was excited for dead space remastered only to be so annoyed they made the original Isaac talk.
Isaac talking was the best part about Dead Space 2 for me.
He spends the whole first game as that stoic character who overcomes impossible odds not saying a word and then at the beginning of the second game shit hits the fan again and the guy’s like “FUUUUCK, AGAIN?”
Felt super fitting.
By the way how crazy is it that the orange box exists. All 3 games being iconic, and not even a high price. They don't make games like that anymore, or Halo with forge+pve campaign+pvp that are all good.
Wow um okay NAZI it’s called FORSPOKEN and it’s a 20/10. Just because the main character is a BLACK WOMAN you’ve filed it away in the “forgettable” part of your brain??!!?! r/fucknaziscum is gonna give me so many updoots I might have potential of being promoted to MODERATOR. Sorry your fragile WHITE mind can’t comprehend the wavelength I’m on. Me and all my other trans girl bosses are going to find out your dox and get you fired and make sure your wife leaves you by constantly harassing her too. Times are changing my brother in Christ so buckle up cuz you literally just called a video game forgettable with a biological female POC. All my blue hairs and I together will ruin your life and advocate for you to take your life because we are on the good side of history.
K I can’t continue I’m getting mad at myself even saying all that sarcastically
There was a comic or some expanded lore somewhere that stated that Chell specifically chooses not to speak to robots because she fucking hates them. And honestly, fair.
It's not because she's resolute in the face of adversity, or "sticking it to the machine", Chell is just racist against sentient computers and believes that GLaDOS isn't *really* talking to her.
Didn't one of the developers behind the first game say that Chell can talk (at least in the first game) she just doesn't want to give glados the satisfaction of a response.
I had a dream where I was P-body from Portal 2 and whenever I completed a challenge, Chell would say “nice job robots” in a very supportive tone. I don’t think that’s an accurate characterization though.
That’s nonsense because people start complaining as soon as these characters are announced. It comes way before gameplay or storytelling. I don’t know why these characters weren’t attacked but it’s not because they are good characters
That's because they're indicative of the type of game that it's going to be, and where the devs/character writers are putting their effort. Seeing those type of "woke" characters has become something that people have started recognizing as part of a pattern that indicates that the writers are focused on the DEI bullshit, rather than actually making competent, believable characters that are interesting to play as/interact with.
If their entire personality is "I'm gay, and I look like it", then there's generally either no room for actual interesting personality, or the writers don't know how to write competent and interesting characters that get players involved.
If the writing team is full of activists and DEI hires, rather than competent people that know what makes a character interesting, then you're going to get shit characters, no matter if they're "woke" or not. Them being "woke" is just a good indicator that usually they're going to be shit, because the writers are activists, rather than being good at their job.
I have no problem with gay, black, or whatever else characters, but that needs to just be an inherent part of who they are, not their defining character features. I don't care if they're gay or black, I care if they're interesting and well written. If they're obnoxiously rainbow colored and have pronouns in the bio, then that's just an indicator to me that that is what the writers and character designers care about, rather than making a person with an interesting personality/background. Being gay is not a substitute for actually possessing a personality.
Yup, most people look at the surface level of "what do people dislike about product", not the underlying pattern that players have started to recognize and call out as being an indicator for a poorly written game.
Either that, or they intentionally use the dislike of DEI characteristic as a shield to deflect criticism.
Did Valve ever once make a point about it?
They just introduced a character and that was it, which is why people "just played the game". When companies make a big fuss about why they're so special because "look, out character has X characteristic that makes us/them amazing" it betrays virtue signalling as the reaspm for their choice.
Because the whole anti-woke crybaby bullshit started after Breitbart published a think-piece that encouraged right wing thought-leaders to push the idea that “Forced Diversity” is taking over the media. These characters existed before this Breitbart piece and are therefore unaffected
It cones from wider factors. I can't really put it into words but, the "vibes" of a project and who's making it determine if something gonna get hate and after release, how it's done will determine if the hate continues or fizzles away.
Like that new game coming "Concord" everything about it reeks of box ticking, no heart, no vision, chasing trends with character designs one would find on 2015 Tumblr to make a quick buck via Blackrock ESG points to get bots to funnel investment money their way.
Compare this to say, Miles Morales, very quickly after the first comics came out it was firmly established that not only was Miles his own character, but he's someone who idolised Peter Parker and wanted to follow in his footsteps, not replace him or prove himself as better. There was a lot of hate for this character when he was first announced then pretty soon after the first few comics came out it died down and the same ppl who hated him warmed up to him.
One is mindless corporate box ticking slop pushed by elitist, racist, sexist, disconnected harpies on behalf of their corporate overlords, The other is actually fleshed out characters made by people who have a vision.
And yet, you yourself admit there are people jumping on BOTH regardless of the supposed vibe these corporations are supposed to have.
So its DEI when its poorly written, and not DEI when its written well, but its schroedingers DEI until one finds out? Haha.
That vibe is really easy. It's called "pandering" for the most part. Pretty sure that's actually what woke meant. It just got distorted with more people as ideas about dislike certain things alligned with other ideas. Doesn't matter.
Point is you can tell when someone is trying to sell you bread for $100 for bullshit reasons. Like painting it blue.
I definitely felt this way. I can't stand characters being remade into other genders and races just to check boxes, but having an entirely new character from the ground up from whatever race and gender is definitely awesome.
Not even that, it's just that their characters aren't obvious tokens to appease a DEI quota.
You don't need amazing characters, just dont do shitty virtue signaling, and you'll be fine
What agenda~ proceeds to recognize their checklist.
That one you fucking idiot. The consumer can tell when a coorpo doesn't give a fuck about them. Having a checklist is one of them
**Ingredients:**
2 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1 teaspoon baking powder
1 teaspoon salt
2 Tablespoons unsweetened cocoa powder
2 cups sugar
1 cup vegetable oil or canola
2 eggs
1 cup buttermilk
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
1-2 oz. red food coloring more or less depending on how deep you want the color
1/2 cup plain hot coffee prepared (don’t skip this ingredient)
1 teaspoon white distilled vinegar
**Instructions**
1. Preheat oven to 325 F.
2. Generously grease and flour (2) 9-inch round cake pans. Set aside.
3. In a medium bowl, whisk together flour, baking soda, baking powder, cocoa powder, and salt. Set aside.
4. In a large bowl, combine the sugar and vegetable oil.
5. Mix in the eggs, buttermilk, vanilla, and red food coloring until combined.
6. Stir in the coffee and white vinegar.
7. Combine the wet ingredients with the dry ingredients a little at a time, mixing after each addition, just until combined. (Batter will be thin)
8. Pour the batter evenly into each pan.
9. Bake in the middle rack for 30-40 minutes or until a toothpick inserted in the center comes out with moist crumbs clinging to it. Do not overbake as the cake will continue to cook as it cools.
10. Let pans cool on a cooling rack until the pans are warm to the touch.
11. Slide a knife or offset spatula around the inside of the pans to loosen the cake from the pan.
12. Gently remove the cakes from the pan and let them finish cooling. (The warm cake will be very delicate)
13. Frost the cake with cream cheese frosting when the cakes have cooled completely.
***Tips:***
Be sure to not overbake! Check the cake at 30 minutes as some ovens run really hot.
The cakes are really moist and delicate. You may need to refrigerate them to firm them up before stacking and frosting.
To bake cupcakes, bake for 18-20 minutes, checking at the 18-minute mark.
i think what a lot of people mean by non political is its not overt modern politics in a way that feels artificially injected into the story.
people will enjoy games with overt modern politics if it makes sense with what the game is saying. look at detroit become human, i don't really recall there being much uproar about that game.
a lot of the most popular games among the "right wing chuds" are explicitly heavily political as a central focus of the game, but its the central focus of the game.
not a random looter shooter or adventure game or something where a character just randomly spouts off a line about capitalism being the root of all evil before going back to the game at hand.
There are people unironically calling shit like Fallout and Metal Gear 'non political.' I'm more inclined to believe that they're actually just morons who want their own worldviews validated.
see and, under the frame work i described above, i would call my favorite game of all time, new vegas, non political.
because all of the politics on display in that game and in fallout in general are... the main point of the game. the game isn't slipping politics in where it doesn't belong, it's filled to the bursting with political commentary that works with the world, tone, and setting the game is trying to portray.
(and because i've mentioned new vegas, my "favorite ending horoscope" for anyone who gives a fuck is house/ncr depending on how you want to look at both enings.)
"The game explicitly about politics and the ways in which people will try to emulate the systems that literally destroyed the world leads to more war and destruction is non-political.'
You're a moron.
you are missing the point. if i were to put new vegas through the framework i am ascribing to the mindset of someone who says "i don't like it when games have politics", i think *that person* with *that mindset* would say that new vegas is one of those "non political games"
Fallout New Vegas straight up involves a lesbian coming into conflict with the people who raised her because her sexuality means she cannot have biological children. You can talk to a gay prostitute about his experience being a sex slave. The antagonists will spout sexist shit at you if your character is a woman.
>Fallout New Vegas straight up involves a lesbian coming into conflict with the people who raised her because her sexuality means she cannot have biological children.
Lmao veronica left for more reasons than just "im a lesbian". Veronica completely disagreed with everything the classic brotherhood stood for and was at odds with the elder in charge and his inability to do anything besides hide in hidden valley waiting for the ncr to finish the job. Her being a lesbian was probably the least controversial thing in the eyes of the brotherhood hardliners as she made 0 effort to hide these opinions.
Apologies for not writing a full dissertation in my non-exhaustive and off the cuff list of examples of identity politics within the game. Should I have mentioned her super gauntlets?
While her sexuality isn't the only source of conflict with the Brotherhood, to say it was inconsequential in her departure is reductive as well, given Christine and the fact that the Brotherhood's staunch wave isolationism means the only way for them to reliably continue is through members being born within the order rather than recruited from the Wasteland.
I want a game to actually embrace politics and go balls to the walls. As in depict the Israel Iran WW3 in a shooter game. You would not even need an advertising budget, the press would do it for free. Especially if you added your very own take on "No Russian"
I hate this low iq response you see all the time. They obviously mean non political in a different way than you’re using it, and you know it. They’re not pushing an agenda, it’s a story.
It's definitely pushing a political agenda, it's just far more agreeable to the masses.
When people get triggered by a game having people of color or LGBT characters and denounce it as "political", there is a reason people make fun of that by pointing out how blatantly political the game actually is. It's to point out their dislike doesn't actually have anything to do with "politics in games", because those people really are just upset to see POC/LGBT people simply exist in a game, which is obviously not fucking political at all.
If appealing to more racial/sexuality demographics gets referred to as "political statements I dislike", that person actually is just making a dumb excuse for their real opinion which is "seeing gay people or minorities makes me very uncomfortable". People existing is not a political statement.
I see what you’re saying, but I just disagree. I’ve never disliked a game or movie just because of a gay or non white character, it’s the fact that it’s made a point that they are not straight/white. There aren’t just black or gay characters, there’s *heckin wholesome* black/gay characters, that make it a giant point that they aren’t straight or white. And that’s supposed to be some amazing thing that we gotta stand up and clap about. Again it’s not every single character, I definitely don’t think it is, but when you see characters like the woman from Alan Wake 2 who says “I’m sick of these white assholes who tell me what to do with my life” it’s like ok, really, cmon now. Admittedly, I’m not explaining this very well, but I hope what I’m saying makes sense.
People always claim this is why, and yet I genuinely can't even think of a recent example of that happening in media. Even before they see a character speak, they cry woke. If a new black character appears in a trailer and says one line - somehow this alone generates hundreds of comments and posts where people claim so-and-so franchise or TV show "went woke" literally just because the person is there.
The Spider-Man 2 outcry was especially absurd, there was an uproar just because one kid in a side mission is gay and you help him ask out his crush, etc. These characters are literally just present in the game, not making any statements, they're just gay. Replacing them with a straight couple wouldn't affect the story or context at all and it's solely for an optional side mission.
I genuinely don't remember hearing anything about what you're talking about. I do remember people being mad at LGBT flags (and the removal of the mod that changed said flags to american ones), and the deaf girl side mission. Not because of her being black or deaf, but rather because why would it be in the game to begin with?
I didn't play it so I personally don't care.
> These characters are literally just present in the game, not making any statements, they're just gay.
I think people are just tired of characters who do the opposite of this; make their entire personality their race/orientation. As well as characters being added or changed to fill a quota.
I still very much remember the live action adaptations for Death Note and Cowboy Bebop where characters were changed to include a black and non-binary character respectively where there were none before. And I probably don't have to mention the historical adaptations/documentaries that used black actors to represent white figures (like Queen Charlote, etc), or the movies that changed a character's race for no reason (like the Little Mermaid). Or POC being put where you'd least expect them (like in the new Assassin's Creed).
All of which makes people very skeptical whenever they see a POC/LGBT character in media nowadays. Some people overreact, sure, but I think a lot of people are just realizing how much quota driven characters ruin stories, and thus you see more people complaining than before.
I think what was implied is, different from the current political landscape.
Nobody is living in a futuristic alien-imposed dystopia (regardless of what the fringe likes to believe) so it doesn't raise many eyebrows. When you go picking sides in a socially commentative game thats more inclined to the current day politics, you're bound to get as many people against you, as people with you for the simple fact not everyone aligns with your views.
I don't know how the devs don't realize that or if they do and simply dont care.
By making good games. Diversity isn’t what makes modern games bad, it’s devs that care about diversity more than any other facet of the game. Early apex legends is another example that comes to mind.
The best kind of girlboss. She was basically Gordon's brother in arms. A sister in arms. If you replaced her with a man the dynamic would be largely the same, save for maybe the romantic angle. She was brave, compassionate, strong, funny, smart, and a little insane. Didn't strut around like she's superior and "don't need no man".
It was a partnership that was build on trust over the course of the games
And she was vulnerable, like a normal girl.
Can't find the video, but if you turn off the light in the tunnel in HL2, Alyx will start to say "where are you Gordon" in a scared voice.
I also remember her covering her eyes and complaining if you pointed your flashlight directly in her eyes. Might be misremembering the complaining part though.
It sounds like you blame how modern diversity is on Gamergate when and the "angry young men", rather than those who call the shot and have shitty diversity forced into it.
You can't honestly tell me that Half-Life and Portal are on the same level as Kill the Justice League and Concord
No, I'm blaming the politicisation of diversity. Those games suck because they're bad games, not because they have women in them. And that is my point, diversity in itself isn't a bad thing, but when it is used for political reasons it's quickly becomes shit. It just so happens that angry young men without the life experience to discern between what is shitty, forced diversity and just straight up adequate representation are enraged by any form of representation because of how political it has become. Look at Rogan, Tate, Peterson, and tell me that their criticisms of modern diversity aren't rooted in the potential grift that is upsetting and fuelling the rage of already marginalised angry young men, rather than reasonable criticism of forced diversity implemented by capitalists to earn political brownie points.
Only a small minority of grifter argue games are bad because woman.
Your point could be made about the types like Hassan Piker and Vaush and how they radicalizes their audience but the majority of people, AKA normal people, are able to criticize Isreal without being mindless anti-semite and pro-hamas propagandist
Same way how the amount of, Joe Rogan fans who think woke is when woman exist in a game is far less than normal guy who wants to enjoy a good game but the devs made a deal with the Devil to get ESG funds in exchange of painfully forced diversity and most people arent the kind you find twitter so when they go to enjoy a game that has all women that are ugly and brutish, full of quirky millenial writing, and references to current politics their reaction wont be "Oh my god yass slay the evil capitalism, I too must virtue signal all day and night!"
And it wont neither be "This game has black women? Clearly woke garbage!"
Their reaction will be "I cant enjoy this game whos more busy trying to send a message rather then be fun, I dont care about these agendas and they are so on the nose, do they think I'm an idiot? What a waste." And they dont like it when people act like their dislikebof the game is because of a character gender identity, it's like if I acted like you were a pedophile for disagreeing with me.
Like, you can dislike the term woke all day but however you call it, there is a phenomenon that has games having far-left agendas that are forced in and the games journalist are in on it because, well, they agree with the agenda, to conclude, gamer gate was right, games journalist are beyond corrupt.
It's easy. Just build a character that's more than a single factor of their facets comically overblown for target audiences to go "DAS ME, I'M IN DA VIDYA GAEM!" It just makes me feel insulted to whenever there's a fat bi dude in a game going "I'M FAT AND BI I'M SO QUIRKY AND I EXIST TO BE FAT AND BI LOOK AT ME BEING FAT AND BI!"
It's because they don't boast about how great they are for having a mixed woman as the main character of their puzzle game. People hate being preached to.
It’s cause they came out years ago. If any of these games came out today, guaranteed all the right wing babies would be crying about DEI and woke mob bullshit lol
She was an existing character from the previous games, plus it was VR only, not nearly enough people have VR or have played that game.
If they’d invented a new character that acted and sounded the exact same, people would’ve been mad.
Do you really think VR sets are as popular as having a PC with Steam on it?
Either way the main point was that Alyx was an existing character that people already knew and liked from the older games.
Nice moving of the goal post, also your point falls when you consider people can criticize a game is woke, without playing it.
Look at how many people call Concord woke slop and how many are actually playing it.
You really are unable to argue in good faith are you
What goalpost do you think I moved? Genuinely curious.
Idk what Concord is but I’ll say this - I think good character and story writing is more important than anything else, and that’s ultimately the reason all those characters are well regarded.
You cannot tell me that if Portal didn’t exist and it was announced today with a trailer, people would’ve been up in arms about “another fucking woman protagonist”
Maybe once the game came out and it was good, they’d change their tune, but you know for a fact that I’m right about what the initial reaction would be today.
"It’s cause they came out years ago. If any of these games came out today, guaranteed all the right wing babies would be crying about DEI and woke mob bullshit lol"
This was the goal you set up.
HL:Alyx game out recently and no one cried about it, so you moved the goal post by saying it must be a new OC character from the Half-Life universe.
>You cannot tell me that if Portal didn’t exist and it was announced today with a trailer, people would’ve been up in arms about “another fucking woman protagonist”
I can because Stellar Blade is a thing, and the only people who had a problem with the woman protagonist was games journos lamenting the woman was too hot and not "diverse" enough.
Providing an argument is not “moving a goalpost” lmao. It’s objectively true that Alyx is an existing character, and that’s a massive part of the reason there was minimal backlash to her.
Stellar Blade had a hot anime girl protagonist, compare that to something like the girl from the Horizon series, or even MJ from the Spider-Man 2, the difference in treatment of a sex doll character like the one from SB vs a character that looks like a real person should tell you all you need to know.
Anyway, you sound like you just learned a few new words in high school debate class, so I’m assuming you’re pretty young and not very open to actually being convinced of anything. I look forward to when you look back at this convo in a few years and cringe.
>Stellar Blade had a hot anime girl protagonist, compare that to something like the girl from the Horizon series, or even MJ from the Spider-Man 2, the difference in treatment of a sex doll character like the one from SB vs a character that looks like a real person should tell you all you need to know.
Wow sexist much?
SB protagonist is based on a real human you bigot, you can see how the proportions are pretty much 1:1.
Get down your soapbox you fucking 1950s ass conservatie "all good looking women are succubus temptress"
Whats next very progressive talking point will you come with?
Turns out making characters who aren’t defined by their race/orientation and doesn’t shove such things in your face do well!
Instead of being shoehorned, obvious and a main focus of that character like “big woop they’re gay” and thats all there is to them.
"I'm a black Scottish cyclops. They got more [beeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeep] than they got the likes of me."
Well I guess I don't know what your point is then. They used race for comedy, yes, that also means yes it's been in our faces the whole time. My point is that they're trying to gloss over that race and ethnicity does make up major portions of their characters.
Thats very dishonest lmao, you really are taking one joke.
Need I explain why he said he's black?
Its because he's scotish! And scotland if you didnt notice is very white, so the joke is that he's a black scotish
And thats just one part of the joke and it servers you know what purpouse in the trailer?
To introduce you that this is a black scotish drunkyard demolition expert.
If modern writers made Alyx she'd be obese, missing a leg, have giant frizzy zoomer hair, fucked up teeth, glasses, and all she would talk about is how the Combine are oppressing her.
You can be gay and there is a black main character on top of there being multiple gay and poc characters in the game also when you create a character you can choose nonbinary and it
doesn’t even mention gender it just says body type 1 or 2 and you can also be trans
You are so pathetic, you really believe that having that silly list of yours makes a game woke, whats next strawman arguement that you believe?
You do know a strawman arguement doesnt reflect real life, maybe read what the people have been saying here, they describe pretty well their problem with woke games, let me find you one
When the fuck did i make a ?? Your view of “wokeness” might be different from everyone else but alot of people consider this game woke. https://steamcommunity.com/app/1086940/discussions/0/3823047940150899271/?ctp=4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pX1sh4OriME https://rpgcodex.net/forums/threads/baldurs-gate-3-anti-woke-mods.150337/ and thats just from the first few results on google if i dug any deeping im sure i could find wayyyyyyyyyy more but that’s up for you to do now because even if you have a counter point for this thats getting into a different argument because i established this game is considered woke by multiple different people and those are the kind of people my original comment was towards.
Bro literrly 90% is people singing its praises.
You really have to dig to find that and even then.
Would you have a problem with someone installing mods to make a game more "woke"?
No?
Then thats fine too, modding is a non-arguement.
So, let me get this clear, the statistical possibility that minority of people think woke game is when black or trans, means EVERYONE who hates woke game is because they think like the minority.
Do you understand the pitfall in your logic here? And how saying that BG3 is woke because one hick that hates blacks exists, means that majority of people who hate woke must be the same as that one racist.
Heres a good arguement about woke:
It cones from wider factors. I can't really put it into words but, the "vibes" of a project and who's making it determine if something gonna get hate and after release, how it's done will determine if the hate continues or fizzles away.
Like that new game coming "Concord" everything about it reeks of box ticking, no heart, no vision, chasing trends with character designs one would find on 2015 Tumblr to make a quick buck via Blackrock ESG points to get bots to funnel investment money their way.
Compare this to say, Miles Morales, very quickly after the first comics came out it was firmly established that not only was Miles his own character, but he's someone who idolised Peter Parker and wanted to follow in his footsteps, not replace him or prove himself as better. There was a lot of hate for this character when he was first announced then pretty soon after the first few comics came out it died down and the same ppl who hated him warmed up to him.
One is mindless corporate box ticking slop pushed by elitist, racist, sexist, disconnected harpies on behalf of their corporate overlords, The other is actually fleshed out characters made by people who have a vision.
when a story is more concerned with virtue signaling, surface level political messaging, and identity politics, it’s clear that’s the issue with the plot. Plus the creative team will use those politics as a shield for criticism of their mediocre writing
Because the character choice for Alyx was already made when muh women in games wasn't a big deal. People love to shit about minorities or women as the main character in a game or movie but 90% of the time it's either because muh women or because the writing is genuinely awful
I haven't played the vr game, but even just hl2 alyx is one of the best written characters in gaming. Highly competent, likeable, and great voice acting. Feels both human and like a true partner as opposed to just some tacked on sidekick. There's nothing to complain about with her. Not having a corny love subplot was also a great decision. A few affectionate gestures are shown, but otherwise, they're focused on the task at hand.
It's been a while since I've played HL2, but isn't the reason why Alyx was so well received as a character because she didn't follow the typical plot tropes of having her be a damsel in distress, love interest or assistant to the protagonist? In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it ever came out that her character was originally written as a guy (hell she almost has a guys name) in the first draft of the script. And because Alyx didn't exist prior to HL2 the right wingers didn't lose their collective shit about recasting an existing character (as they claim happens in a lot of movie remakes)
Alyx was written and designed exactly how a female character should be for something like HL2.
The characters of TF2 are def 1 note stereotypes but they make it very funny. Plus they neatly sidestep Demoman being black and the associated stereotypes by also making him Scottish, one legged, and one eyed.
Theres absolutely nothing wrong with characters who are minorities, gay, female, whatever.
There is however a lot wrong with characters who are solely those things.
good writing, good characters, and they don't make it the staple of the game. nobody has a problem playing as a minority or a woman. it's when the writing is shitty and the character sucks that people get mad.
Zeitgeist changed. Racial matters are more acutely understood and discussed nowadays, which leads to people being either more receptive or touchy about it.
The only reason other companies get shit for it is that they go out of their way to make sure they get shit for it in order to demonstrate their fealty to the regime that demands they cooperate with the message control of the current psyop.
How to not get shit for a "diverse" cast and/or main character is pretty simple:
1. **Don't distort what people already love**: If the story is already well known, but the main character isn't the race or sex you want to tell a different story about, pick a different story to tell. Ideally tell a brand new story where the diversity doesn't fly in the face of what people know about reality (e.g. a story where a woman wins men's powerlifting is stupid).
2. **Don't brag about your own virtue**: Never call attention to the race or gender of the characters as a selling point of the story. If that insignificant fact is the best selling point of the story, that's implicitly admitting the rest of product is trash and people react poorly to that.
3. **Don't insult your audience**: Don't push ideological or political points in the plot. Not only is it overdone, but when you imply that half the audience are bad people for something they don't think is bad, they're going to be upset at you about that.
Aleyx looks so (racially) ambiguous. Valve was careful to not have her look too "black" or "Black" at all. I (full black woman) would have never guessed she's supposed to be bi-racial if it wouldn't be for her dad.
I still like her, and pissed that Alyx is only playable with VR. Half Life 3 will never come (at least not while I'm still alive).
The correct answer, which I will get downvoted to hell for, is that what everyone seems to neglect in media is the fact that for someone to like a particular piece of media, they must be able to relate to the character or situation. If you highlight characteristics or situation in which I cannot relate, chance are I will not appreciate it (on a side-note, this specifically scares me in regards to the popularity of murder/serial killer shows, podcast, etc...). The more diverse a character is, the harder it is to relate unless they are put in situations were they behave in a matter that the audience can identify with. This is particularly why the general population may act vehemently towards anything outside was is considered the "norm" in casting/shows/media.
While I agree writing is important to making these charactes well liked, modern gamers are so far in the rabbit hole that this argument no longer works. The new Assassin's Creed game is getting shit on for having a black guy, the new Fable game is getting shit on for having a female protagonist, the new Star Wars Ubi game is getting shit on for having a female protagonist.
Notice something? None of these games have released at all. We don't know *anything* about these characters and gamers already dismiss them as forced inclusion and comment bullshit like "why do i have to play as her, first thing im doing is modding the game" like what lmao
Race was never really an issue, the entire 80s and 90s were filled with black and Asian protagonists and supporting characters in movies and they were the biggest superstars on the planet. Because it wasn't a virtue signalling, or a trend, or a political statement. Just people in a movie. Once you start doing it for a check mark to appease sensationalist reporters - people feel how disingenuous it is and of course it's gonna be met with criticism
One of the jokes in TF2 is despite demoman being the only black character in the game, all other characters mock him not for his race, but for being Sxottish lol
Because they used stereotypes correctly, it feels natural and not forced.
Look at the TF2 sniper, he is comically Australian, but not in a negative way. Or the demo-man he’s a Scottish black guy, not a “black” Scottish guy right? Race and such are part of their character but not the defining characteristic.
I hope I’m making sense.
I see people talking about "well written characters that happen to be black" ok that's true but these days we have people that start screaming before a game comes out when they see a black person. I saw a game ABOUT AFRICA made BY AN AFRICAN and people started screaming about DEI. Dumb as hell
All of these characters/games came out before right wing woke paranoia started crying about everything, I guarantee you the same people would cry about Half Life 2 if it came out today.
The real hot take is if the original half life and portal came out today they would get shit for these characters. This nonsense about "needless inclusivity" didn't start until around gamergate and by then these games were already in the good graces of the community. Imo the only reason valve dodged it is cause these games were made before some people decided inclusivity was a bad thing.
You don't even notice the characters race, because it's not done for diversity's sake, they were just trying to make cool & naturally interesting characters.
The game is good,therefore you ignore it.
Most recently BG3 had all the typical idpol crap,but everyone ignored it because the charachters did.
Karlach didn't spend a billion years talking how she is a tiefling and the tieflings weren't analagous to black people-instead she has a full charachter that only includes being a tiefling and tieflings are a wholly separate group with their own problrms without analogies to the real world.
Make an original well written character
"OmG gUys hOw Do tHeY dO It?!"
https://preview.redd.it/hpyd6d650vfd1.png?width=651&format=png&auto=webp&s=f4b69f23686106c9f109dec3fe0feacfb2429778
I think it's weird that Alyx didn't cause a shitstorm. People especially wanted a third game with Freeman and got Alyx instead. It's probably because most people didn't have VR headsets so they simply didn't bother getting mad at a product that they couldn't even consoom.
Feel like I see the most controversy when it’s like putting black or female soldiers in historically inaccurate places, these games take place in a far enough away future that complaints are very unfounded
People probably whined about it on some obscure forum back in the day.
Nowadays the suckers just have bigger platforms.
The reason people weren't as loud on the VR thing is cause it had been long over a decade since the last half life release and she already was an established character.
I hate alyx she was such a badass that made the protagonist look like toddler.
Whole game I am thinking we should play her not Gordon. She is like 'yeah Gordon just shoot those guys I will handle the big brain stuff'.
this was a different time when games were made by people who actually played games, and not by shareholders or execs. watch them eat shit when deadlock releases.
Wait turns out introducing diverse characters with good storylines without insufferable personalities and political agenda-driven character development helps with the public acceptance of the characters??
Valve isn't publicly traded.
They don't do it because index funds force them to, they do it because they feel like it, so it's natural. That's why it doesn't feel fake or ragebait
Like the actress that Chell was modeled after? Because Alesia Glidewell's dad is a Brazilian-American and her mom is Japanese. If so, that's cool. But you can't blame people for calling her asian because that's what she looks like the most (at least to me)
I just googled and she doesn’t really look particularly Asian to me. Black hair, sure, but could be Latin or Italian or Slavic for all I can tell.
But if Valve says so, I guess that’s it.
Chell (protag of portal) was based of alesia glidewell, who was a mix of brazilian, american and japanese, just kinda funny also portal 2 took away her melanin
There is a difference between adding things for necessity and adding things for realism, valve making chell asian is because she might as well be.
Unlike, lets say you make a game about vikings and then turn a Scandinavian royal black or asian or Arabic or literally anything else than Scandinavian. It's not done for realism, therefore it's bad
Real diversity: make complex developed characters that just happen to be a race or sexuality or whatever
DEI bullshit diversity: Make a characters skin type or sexuality their only defining feature, no personality, literally just stereotypes personified but somehow this isn't bigotry. bonus points to give them an absolutely shitty personality but its okay because they are girl boss slay or some shit.
Maybe the game is good and so people like it? Has anon considered this? That nobody actually cares about that shit unless the game is dogshit, cause if its good the minority who bitches will be drowned out by the majority that likes that game, cause its a good game.
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