In your opinion, what constitutes the "Deep South"? Additionally, what would you say are the other regions of the Southeast?
Posted by PalmettoPolitics@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 55 comments
atlantis_airlines@reddit
For me, the term "deep" in this setting doesn't mean how south something is, but rather how isolated a place is. A place like Brasstown, in North Carolina is more deep south than Atlanta Georgia.
jay__5@reddit
I'd say this map encapsulates it pretty well.
ModernMaroon@reddit
23B should be the US Virgin Islands
38B should be American Samoa
38C should be Guam
TheRedmanCometh@reddit
I will never understand why S Texas...the most southern point..isn't what defines the "deep south". If anything the deep south should be the mid south.
gugudan@reddit
I cringed at whatever I thought this was going to be, but it's pretty accurate. It's much better than whatever I expected.
SenorPuff@reddit
My only complaint is that "frontier" section should have a couple more firm boundaries. Desert Southwest, Mountain West and Great Plains are more distinct than this let's on. Then there's soft boundaries within those.
NimrodBusiness@reddit
I can't speak to that, but I do agree that the Deep South is well represented (in my opinion), and they also get big points from me for calling the NE coastal region Cascadia. Californi's areas we're well represented, although I think that the central coast bay area are distinct from one another.
SenorPuff@reddit
Yeah I just have a hard time thinking there's a "smaller" difference between Phoenix and Minot than between Houston and Dallas.
jay__5@reddit
I’ve never been there, but it makes sense at least in theory that the West would be culturally contiguous.
Culture takes time to develop, and those parts of the country were settled and populated very quickly and relatively recently. Even today, it’s extremely sparsely populated. It’s kind of like how we have more distinct local accents in the east than you guys do.
SenorPuff@reddit
Do you just not understand that a desert next to Mexico, where Spanish and Natives mingled for several hundred years before the US took over, that housed native agriculture for a millennium, would be clearly culturally distinct from Plains up by Canada that had a sparse native population at the best of times and a completely different climate? The Spanish/Mexican historical influence alone is a massive cultural difference, without getting into immigration policy over the past 50 years.
By that map, Tucson has less in common with Los Angeles or San Diego(or San Antonio) and all have Spanish colonial buildings.
jay__5@reddit
I have a really hard time believing that the culture of Native Americans who were the victims of both physical and cultural genocide bear that much influence on the modern English-speaking American culture.
New England and the NYC metro have those same differences. The latter was controlled by the Dutch for a while, while the former was always English. Natives here spoke a wildly different languages and lived different lifestyles than the ones in New England did. To this day, there remain architectural differences between the two regions in both cities and suburbs.
But this is only enough to justify a soft boundary. Because compared to say, somewhere down south, we have enough in common to be grouped together as Northeastern. I’d imagine it’s the same thing out west.
therealdrewder@reddit
Also the "mormon corridor" should extend into Arizona
tangledbysnow@reddit
And Western Colorado.
Also the Southern Plains is not right as its not really Frontier but Midwest. It's super distinct from the mountainous areas. Plus something about it being a lot like the central part of Texas all the way up to South Dakota is bothering me. I like Dallas but it feels very distinct and different than Nebraska. Like the most common foods are mostly different (kolaches being an exception). And I think the hard cultural line is very far west in Nebraska than where they have it - maybe all the way into Colorado and Wyoming.
therealdrewder@reddit
Also can't forget Wyoming
Hematomawoes@reddit
This. Except remove all parts of Florida from the map because Florida is not Deep South.
sammysbud@reddit
Have you spent time around north Florida? It is 100% the Deep South. There aren't any significant cultural differences until you reach the Orlando sprawl to the south or the gulf coast influence to the west.
Hematomawoes@reddit
I literally live in north Florida. It is in no way the Deep South. The map has the Atlantic coast of Florida correct, but including as far down as Gainesville, FL as Deep South is so far from accurate lol.
doctorobjectoflove@reddit
There's a historic slave plantation near Tampa, mate.
Also Punta Gorda has segregated bathrooms in their historical railway station. Can't imagine anything more "Deep South" than that.
Were you born and raised in Florida?
sammysbud@reddit
I've spent a lot of time in Gainesville. It is absolutely a part of the "Deep South", and I'm curious how you think it isn't, other than being a college town.
Putting that aside, you said, "remove all parts of Florida from the map because Florida is not Deep South." which is very inaccurate. I grew up on the GA/FL line, spending a lot of time with family spread between Tallahassee, Perry, and Live Oak. There are no cultural differences between there and places in south Georgia like Valdosta, Bainbridge, and Thomasville.
Hematomawoes@reddit
I mean I’m not here to argue…2 opinions about the imaginary boundaries of a cultural region can indeed co-exist, so I don’t get why you are harping on this…it is odd…I’ve stated my opinion based off of my personal, lived experience. It’s Reddit, my dude lol.
willtag70@reddit
Parts of N. Florida = S. Georgia.
Mr_Kittlesworth@reddit
It’s good. You can always quibble with these sorts of categorizations. Mine with this one is that I think there’s actually a distinct culture around DC and the Cheasapeake, generally, that’s neither northeastern nor southern.
TheBimpo@reddit
Best regional map I’ve ever seen. It could do a little bit better job with the regions that kind of bleed into each other, but overall this is excellent.
Traditional_Entry183@reddit
I love this map so much. It's absolutely my favorite of its kind. Not only does it correctly have the northern parts of WV (where I grew up) separate from the South, but it also has Richmond on the border, which it absolutely is today. In 2024, Richmond and Pittsburgh have a lot more in common than they have differences.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
The Deep South boundaries are pretty bad, though. There’s no part of Oklahoma that’s Deep South, and it erroneously colors a lot of the Ozarks as Deep South while separating the Gulf Coast, which has always been closely tied to the inland southern half of the Deep South states.
BuildNuyTheUrbanGuy@reddit
I don't agree about the gulf. We have a distinct culture and history compared to much of the inland south.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
Louisiana, sure, but this map has a Gulf region that stretches over to the Florida Panhandle. The things that make Louisiana distinctive don’t apply to Orange Beach or Pensacola.
But there’s definitely a sense in which Louisiana culture has influenced the broader South. Your standard Southern restaurant here in Birmingham, for instance, will likely have blackened fish or red beans and rice on the menu. New Orleans is distinctly urban, but pre-war Birmingham had streetcars and lots of live jazz, too – other places in the South were different but part of it is that they didn’t preserve their history well. That said, I’d put the edges of that influence no further north than I-20 and maybe no further than the fall line – Tuscaloosa feels culturally closer to the Gulf than Birmingham, for example.
To-RB@reddit
I’m from the Deep South. I would say it’s mostly accurate except that it extends too far north in Alabama and Georgia. I think that Atlanta and Birmingham are just north of the Deep South. North Georgia and North Alabama are very different culturally, at least from my perspective.
willtag70@reddit
Pretty good, although having lived in SC for a few years I'd include it in Deep South.
Hardstumpy@reddit
Accurate
My-Cooch-Jiggles@reddit
Louisiana, Mississippi and Alabama. Maybe Georgia too. Pretty much the entire SE is the South. Except Florida. Florida is Florida.
nine_of_swords@reddit
I don't typically divide the South by states, but rather geographic features. Those features greatly influenced how those areas developed.
For Deep South, I'd say it's a combo of two similar, but distinct areas: The southern Atlantic Fall Line to the areas about 50 miles from the coast (at max) and the lower Mississippi watershed. These were the primary spots where cotton grew.
The Fall Line plains bit goes from where growing transitioned from tobacco in North Carolina and wraps all the way down to the original Black Belt in Alabama and eastern Mississippi. It tends to include the cities directly on the Fall Line, since their development was directly correlated to cotton (Fayetteville NC, Columbia, Augusta, Macon, Columbus GA, Montgomery). There are few larger cities in the rest of the area, though. This lack of major cities often leads to Birmingham and Atlanta being grouped with the region since they are southernmost noncoastal cities near the region and got a lot of migration historically from the area, but they really aren't part of the region. And it's really obvious beyond a just a rural/urban divide. That said, it has a lot of subregions despite the low population, like the Sandhills, the Wiregrass, the Black Belt Prairie, etc.
The lower Mississippi valley from Arkansas and Tennessee down to just above the coastal areas is the second area (Jackson technically isn't part of the watershed, but it's close enough to include). Overall, think of the Mississippi Delta and the Piney Woods. I'd also include the Louisiana/Arkansas areas of the Red River watershed since it's pretty similar in development. So think Memphis, Jackson, Shreveport, etc. Little Rock acts like a bit of a Fall Line city with the Ozarks, but since the rest of the cities in the region are so flat, it feels weird despite acting more like the cities in the Fall Line plains.
Unfortunately, I do think these two areas will start to split in association. The Lower Mississippi is downstream from a lot of the Midwest and thus potentially more affected by chemicals and industry from that region, and, while the Upland South is growing, as the downstream flow is so split up, it just can accumulate as much when flowing down.
The coastal port areas of the southeast would be lumped in the Deep South as well if you're dividing the south into the two "big" divisions of Deep South (really "Lower South" before the brand change) and the "Upper South." The coastal bits can be divided into three general areas, but they tend to each have a notable subsection.
The Atlantic coast includes the likes of Savannah, Charleston, Wilmington and Jacksonville. These tend to be among the oldest cities in the south at large. In the north, there's the Tidewater in Virginia and North Carolina around Norfolk which is treated separately from the Gullah region to the south.
Florida mostly developed way later than the rest of the coast, so it has a different feel. Even then South Florida is different still with its more Caribbean influence.
The Gulf Coast has a much more mixed European heritage than the Atlantic coast, but grew under similar times. All the cities of Pensacola, Mobile, Biloxi, New Orleans, Baton Rouge, Lafayette, Houston, Corpus Christi all have prominent non-British history and it shows. That said, New Orleans and Lafayette definitely are a notable extreme of this.
As for other regions of the south, they're primarily upland in two disjointed parts: Appalachian and Ozark. That said, Appalachian is big enough with notable development differences to break into parts.
The southern Appalachian is primarily in west North Carolina, western Virginia, east Kentucky, East Tennessee, North Georgia, Northeast Alabama and a sliver in South Carolina. These are the more coal mining areas of the southeast and a bit of the industrial development of post-Civil War, but terrain limited it a bit. Asheville, Knoxville and Chattanooga are the big cities (Roanoke and Tri-Cities step up in the role when one is needed in those areas), with Greenville and Birmingham being arguable border cities (with Atlanta sprawl, it's northern bits can make a claim too).
The Piedmont is where the main southern growth has been outside Florida and Texas. There are the eastern foothills of the Appalachians that were generally less desirable for cotton (though it was such a cash cow that it was sometimes grown, but never could get to the scale of the big plantations), but more exploded with industrialization. Atlanta, Charlotte and Greensboro are the pure examples, and despite being a Fall Line city, Raleigh is in this area as well. Birmingham and Greenville are too from the Appalachian side. The western foothills of the Appalachians are pretty similar (except notably less black migration) and hasn't really developed into a known named culture region. So Bowling Green, Nashville, and Huntsville (Birmingham is a border area for this region too. When people say Cincinnati has a bit of southern-ness to it, it more matches this western foothills area.) can be looped in as well despite not being close to Piedmont (Though Lexington and Louisville are a bit too north to wrap in the grouping. I'd say the looping in can only go partially into the Pennyroyal regions at most and doesn't reach the Bluegrass region).
The Ozarks are a mini Appalachia west of the Mississippi and tends to skip the Piedmont and go straight to the mountains. Little Rock is a border city from the south, but the NWA (Fayetteville) area is the most purely associated metro with the area. After that it drops quite a bit in name recognition, with Branson or Joplin being the biggest names.
Besides that, only really Virginia's lowlands aren't covered (Richmond is the Fall Line city a bit too north to be considered Deep South, but it's not upland either).
CollenOHallahan@reddit
I live above like 90% of the population since I am in MN, so deep south to me, geographically, is the Mason-Dixon line.
Culturally? No idea. I'm from outstate MN. South of Atlanta?
sean8877@reddit
Have you been to the northern foothills and mountains of GA (north of Atlanta)? I live here and it's about as deep south as it comes. This is Marjorie Taylor Greene's district to give some context. Atlanta is an outlier for sure in the area but it still has a very southern vibe as well.
therealdrewder@reddit
Deep South is Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina
dr_strange-love@reddit
I associate the Deep South with the cotton industry. https://i.pinimg.com/originals/45/2c/42/452c42d19ed14d6571276d2bac5a8d00.jpg
DueYogurt9@reddit
In my mind, the Deep South (NOT the South at large) is South Carolina, Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana.
jrhawk42@reddit
Non-coastal areas of Louisiana, Arkansas, Mississippi, and Alabama.
_vercingtorix_@reddit
louisiana, mississippi, alabama, georgia and south carolina.
To me, you've got to think about port-of-entry culture.
The 5 states I called "deep south" were mostly populated from the port of charleston.
NC, TN, VA and AK were populated by migrants who came in through jamestown.
Texas and florida were conquered territories by all sorts of folks.
"deep southerners" are charleston people.
tu-vens-tu-vens@reddit
This is correct. There are a few border regions I would throw in (Memphis, the Delta region in Arkansas, the Florida Panhandle), and you can argue that the Appalachian parts of Alabama, Georgia, and SC should be excluded. But this is it.
TrevorBoreance@reddit
Don't think anyone is accusing Alaska of being in the Deep South
_vercingtorix_@reddit
Well I mean arkansas. You'd think alaska would be AL, but I guess alabama's got that one.
BusinessWarthog6@reddit
End thread
_vercingtorix_@reddit
I mean, we're different people. I'm from TN, and lived in MS. Yeah, sure, some customs like southern politeness and such are there, and we all have a distinct dialect, but I feel more commonality with the "jamestown" south than the "charleston" south.
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
East of the Mississippi until just west of Philly: south of the I-80 corridor is Deep South, excepting a few cities.
West of the Mighty Mississippi: Missouri Arkansas, Louisianna.
solojones1138@reddit
Missouri?! All the major cities in Missouri are Midwest.
Otherwise-OhWell@reddit
I'll be deep in the cold, cold ground before I recognize Missourah!
Reading1973@reddit
Awesome map. For me, the Deep South would be South Carolina, Georgia, North Florida, the Florida Panhandle, Alabama, Mississippi, Louisiana, Arkansas and East Texas. Their culture seems to me to be quite distinct from the Appalachian and Tidewater cultures of the Southeast.
115machine@reddit
Deep South: Mississippi, Georgia, Alabama, South Carolina, Louisiana, North Florida (Florida is weird. The further north you go, the more southern the people get).
Mid to upper South: Tennessee, North Carolina, Arkansas, Virginia, West Virginia, Kentucky.
One distinct region in the south is Appalachia. It’s a bit of a different culture with a slightly different climate and landscape.
TheMockingBrd@reddit
Deep South is Mississippi, Alabama, and Georgia but NOT Florida.
DrGerbal@reddit
Deep South aka dirty south; Louisiana Mississippi Alanama Georgia South Carolina Tennessee. Houston area of Texas maybe
Zoroasker@reddit
I am from the Florida Panhandle and consider that the Deep South, along with Georgia, Alabama, Mississippi, and Louisiana. Maybe South Carolina.
CupBeEmpty@reddit
South Carolina, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, Louisiana, but only in the really rural parts.
And I love those parts. Too many people think “oh it’s the boonies” but it’s fantastic.
lavender_dumpling@reddit
Roughly encompasses the Black Belt. I wouldn't say any part of the South without significant African influence is part of the Deep South. I also would only say there are a couple states that are fully in the Deep South. Northern Alabama is not the Deep South, but southern/central Alabama is. Western Arkansas is not in the Deep South, but eastern Arkansas (Delta region) is.
If your region has a significant amount of African influence, a history of being a plantation based economy, and shares settlement patterns with other parts of the Deep South, you're in the Deep South.
Sabertooth767@reddit
Deep South: Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama, Georgia, and South Carolina. Maybe east Texas and northern Florida as well.
Southeast: The Deep South plus Florida (all of it) and NC.