Chinese Type 68 rifle.It looks like an SKS but it utilizes a rotating bolt system like an AK.
Posted by Brilliant_Ground1948@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 34 comments
Its a select fire rifle chambered in 7.62x39 and uses a detachable double stacked double feed 15 round magazine designed similarly to an AK magazine.Due to its bolt hold open feature it can't use standard AK magazines.
Justaguy1250@reddit
Type-63*
MountainTitan@reddit
This is a Type 68, not Type 63
Justaguy1250@reddit
No, Chinese documents never called it that from what i know. It's a name made by westerners
MountainTitan@reddit
As if "Mosin-Nagant" is ever correct
Justaguy1250@reddit
This is like calling a decked out military M4 an AR-15 Try that once and see how the Americans under us react hah
MountainTitan@reddit
In that case, it's not really wrong.
You go ahead, fly to Russia, and call the original AK's as "AK-47". It's the same as calling the Mosin as "Mosin-Nagant", the MP 40 as "Schmeisser", the Type 63 as "Type 68", or the AK as "PPK".
Justaguy1250@reddit
You know what, no
my comparison isn't even accurate, because the M4 is a gun that is based on the AR-15, the AK-47 is a predecessor of the AK.
The type-68? it doesn't even exist. It's a phantom fantasy name made up by people who didn't know the real name, and thought because production began in 1968, the name must be type-68.
A true example? Calling the AKM 'AK-59' because 1959 is when production began.
MountainTitan@reddit
No
Calling the Type 63 "Type 68" is the same as calling an AK "PPK" or a DP-27 "DP-28"
Justaguy1250@reddit
Why are you so adament on not accepting that Type-68 is a wrong name for this firearm?
I'll admit being wrong if you can find me an original Chinese document where the Type-63 is referred to as a 'Type-68'.
MountainTitan@reddit
Did I ever say that it's the correct name used by the Chinese? Read again. Why are you so adament on not understanding my point? They are still "correct names", just like "AK-47".
Justaguy1250@reddit
how can a name be correct, if it is wrong?
I don't call a BMW an Audi, just because it's a car and sometimes they look alike.
Why do you care so much for this false name?
MountainTitan@reddit
That is not the same.
They are correct names. Something wrong that has been used in reports for a period of time would become correct, like how incorrectly used words that became correct because they were used for so long. And you failed to understand. "AK-47" is incorrect in your definition of what is correct. The Soviet and other socialist nations never referred to them as "AK-47". That's a name from CIA's intelligence.
Justaguy1250@reddit
Surely you've heard of the Tiger (P) story?
This would be you defending the Porsche tiger name, because people have called it a Porsche tank for so long already. It's dumb, a myth, false and luckily that one has been debunked for enough time now that even games don't use the name anymore.
And yes, i know the AK-47 is the prototype.. that's why i said it's the predecessor
1+1 doesn't equal 3 because too many people start believing it, if we start working like that then within a year or two.. all this AI slop will become "factual" as well simply because it fools too many people
MountainTitan@reddit
Type 63, aka Type 68
just like MP 40, aka Schmeisser
something misidentified for so long, its misidentified name became accepted as correct or historically correct. and it'd be a challenge to deal with people like you and explain why these names are parts of the weapons' identity.
just take animals for example. some animals were misidentified as something else in the past, but they are not.
Justaguy1250@reddit
Only people calling the MP-40s 'Schmeisser' nowadays are ignorant americans are 50+ yr olds, people like DragonMan (idk if he does, he's just the most stereotypical person i can think of)
Less and less people are calling it a schmeisser these days, and that starts with 1 person correcting someone who calls it such. I.e. exactly what i did here.
MountainTitan@reddit
MP 40, aka "the Schmeisser"
US Rifle, Caliber .30, M1, aka "M1 Rifle", "M1 Garand", or "Garand"
US Carbine, Caliber .30, M1, aka "M1 Carbine", "the Carbine", "Ca-bin", "Các-bin", or "Cạc-bin"
Auto-Ordnance Thompson Submachine Gun , Caliber .45, M1A1, aka "M1A1 Thompson", "Thompson", "Tommy Gun", "Chicago Typewriter", or "Thông Sơn"
3-line rifle, Model 1891, aka "M1891", "Mosin", "3-line rifle", or "Mosin-Nagant"
ChiCom Type 50 SMG, aka "PPSh", "PPSh-41", or "tiểu liên K50"
ChiCom Type 53 LMG, aka "DP", "DPM", "DP-27", "DP-28", or "trung liên K53"
ChiCom Type 56 SMG, aka "ChiCom AK", "AK-56", "AK", "AK-47", or "tiểu liên K56"
North Korean Type 62 LMG, aka "RPD" or "RPD-44"
Colt Model 653, aka "CAR-15" or "M16 Shorty"
pmK, aka, "AK", "Kalashnikov", "Kalash", "AK-47", or "PPK"
Colt/ArmaLite Model 01 AR-15, aka "Colt Model 601", "M16", "AR-15", or "AR"
Colt AR-15 M16A1, aka "M16A1", "M16", "AR-15", or "AR"
Colt AR-15 Sporter, aka "Colt SP1", "M16", "AR-15", or "AR"
Smith & Wesson M&P 15 Sport II, aka "M&P 15", "AR-15", or "AR"
How else can you make you understand????
Justaguy1250@reddit
You're mentioning how soldiers called it in the field.. that's different from rando collectors giving something a wrong name.
Won't hear me complain about someone calling a Type-56 "K56", though if they aren't Vietnamese I'll find it a bit weird. But AK-56? Yeah, that's just wrong. AK-56 is not an actual used name for that rifle by anyone that made it/fielded it in large numbers.
Calling all AKs "AK"s is also way more reasonable given they're the same fucking design, just like most ARs. Adding to that, guess who calls M16's "AR-15" most often? Hint: it's not collectors :)
Anyway, Type-63 is incomparable to any of these.. - it's not a duplicate name (M1, M1, M1 and M1) - it's not a weapon that looks like 999 other firearms, it's a unique design (AR's, AK's) - "Type-68" isn't a name used by it's manufacturer or by an entire army (Kieu-56, Three-Line rifle)
It's literally only called 'Type-68', because people think the name comes from when production began and thus assumed, which is false. You're also not at all explaining how i am wrong, ever. You only come back with more "examples"/"proof" which i easily debunk.
I understand what you're saying, doesn't make it correct in any way though. Stop being so ignorant and accept that sometimes in life, you can be wrong.
MountainTitan@reddit
Not for comparison. Just similar cases of names and names. Type 56 was once called "AK-56".
Justaguy1250@reddit
That's nice and all, but AK-56 is just wrong. And I don't see how that proves in any way that Type-68 is a good name for the Type-63 because unlike the 56 in AK-56, the 68 comes out of thin air.
Justaguy1250@reddit
Here's another one for you. My research got me to find yesterday that the "Type-64" suppressed pistol never existed.
There is no Type-64, they're all called Type-67 and there's just an early and late variant. Type-64 is again a name made by westeners.
Don't believe me? I have multiple documented Type-64s literally marked as "67 type" on the slide and no, the suppressors aren't interchangeable as far as i know.
MountainTitan@reddit
Who said Type 64 silenced pistol never existed? Type 67 was the successor. They are 2 different pistols. I got these info from mainland Chinese and Vietnamese museum.
Justaguy1250@reddit
The early 'Type-64' is a 1964 design of what would eventually become the Type-67. No Chinese document ever mentions a 1964 model, only an early and late model Type-67.
Again, i litterally have photos of Type-64s that are marked 'Type-67'. And I dont see how a Vietnamese museum is a superior source.. it's not even a Vietnamese pistol
My source: Historian Jiajun Xu (employee at Beijing Military Museum), Historian Lin Xu & one of the documents i use is "Firearms Manual, The "Firearms Manual" Compilation Group of the Ministry of Ordnance Industry" (枪械手册 兵器工业部《枪械手册》编写组) , a Chinese military manual from 1986 on all adopted firearms since the Communists took over. And guess what? No mention of a 1964 pattern of suppressed pistol!
A placard in a museum isn't a better source than original period documentation, my friend. Especially when it comes to firearms of which little is known, like these. I am currently working together with Jonathan Ferguson to get the database of the Royal Armouries updated to mention the correct the correct name.
Is this enough evidence for you?
MountainTitan@reddit
The Vietnamese used them during the Vietnam War. You think the Vietcong assassins call these guns based on CIA's intelligence?
Justaguy1250@reddit
What?? I don't care about CIA intelligence and what not, and the Vietnamese name is fine for when Vietnamese people talk about it, since that's how they know it.
I'm talking the Chinese name, the official chinese name especially on educational posts like this Type-63 post. And it was called Type-67 because the final design wasn't adopted until 1967. There are also 1953 dated Type-54s buddy.
dafna1905@reddit
I thought type 63 has 20-round mags
MountainTitan@reddit
This is a Type 68, not Type 63
Jack_547@reddit
It does
Jack_547@reddit
My beloved, my grail rifle, you've made the mistake of letting me ramble about this surprisingly poorly known assault rifle.
The idea was to create a rifle that'd combine the longer range accuracy and bayonet fighting ability (this was an important aspect of PLA doctrine at the time) of the SKS but the select fire and detachable magazines of the AK. In addition, there was a growing sentiment during the Sino-Soviet Split that China was too dependant on Soviet aid, and there was a degree of embarrassment that they did not have an indigenously designed rifle.
The Type 63 was the end result, something of a mishmash of both SKS and AK. It resembles the SKS and even uses the same wooden stock, but unlike the tilting bolt SKS, the Type 63 uses a rotating bolt based off the AK design. It features a fire selector and bolt hold open,
The rifle was adopted in 1963 and began serial production sometime within the next few years. Initial field tests provided glowing results, stating the rifle was more reliable, more accurate, and more controllable than the Type 56 AK. Much like China did with the Type 56 SKS throughout the 1960s, various tweaks were made to the design over the years to improve production output. By the late 60s however, more and more reports came in of these rifles suffering various issues, cracking receivers, premature parts wear, etc. Quality control was believed to have gotten worse due to both these alterations, as well as supply chain disruptions during Mao's Cultural Revolution.
Reputation of these soured and many PLA units began reverting back to their tried and true AK and SKS rifles. Production ended around 1978. They were exported to various allies of China throughout the 1960s onward, namely Vietnam, Albania, Afghanistan, and North Korea. There are a few videos online of these in various Vietnamese arsenals, so they're not completely out of service yet.
Fun fact, there's a underfolding stock variant of this, which looks a lot like a Mini-30.
MunitionGuyMike@reddit
They will do anything but use an AK lol
ShermanTeaPotter@reddit
This looks slick
Sonoda_Kotori@reddit
It's a Type 63.
Type 68 does not exist.
GamesFranco2819@reddit
Really wish we'd see some kits of these hit the states.
matthewami@reddit
I’m getting federov vibes
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