Is the work culture in The US really that bad?

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bullet_the_blue_sky@reddit

Depends what company you work for. Yes, Americans are programmed to work - mainly because their existence (healthcare mainly) depends on it. In certain European countries you actually have to try to be homeless or have some severe illness. This is the only country I've ever lived in where people brag about getting extra hours at work, overtime or having 3 jobs.

That being said, its slowly changing. Again, it depends on what company you work for.

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flushbunking@reddit

If you don’t work over 40 hours each week people will have contempt for you/be jealous/think you’re lazy.

My team members typically take a two day, so long weekend, vacation each year. They don’t want to let the team down…

Everyone is always busy, every time is a bad time, always grinding to serve your corporate family.

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stocksandvagabond@reddit

Who do you hang around? I’ve never met people who have contempt for me bc I don’t work more than 40 hours a week lmao

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Healthy_Background64@reddit

Any medium to large corporation ever in any segment lmfao

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stocksandvagabond@reddit

Weird of you to dig this up 5 months later but… I’ve worked at a number of medium to large corporations in the US across different industries. Most people have a healthy work life balance and respect your time off.

Dramatic?

It was thirty years of east coast contracting and tech development culture. You can do all of the vetting you want, but after you settle in you are just one corporate buyout, merger, or reorganization from working nights and weekends with increasing frequency until you get fed up and move on, unless the project ends (or the money dries up) and your team goes elsewhere.

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fraxbo@reddit

I am not the commenter you’re responding to. But, I think they’re less referring to interpersonal critique than they are thinking of here criticism lobbed at larger groups of workers. Like, when certain political groups criticize teachers, they always mention the summers off derisively. In addition, the widespread encouragement to turn one’s hobbies into a second source of income is a further sign of the same set of values. People in general in the US thinks you should be spending your life making money.

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stocksandvagabond@reddit

But that’s not true? Most people don’t think like that. For every person who says teachers get summers off and shouldn’t get paid that much, there are 10+ people responding that teachers have important jobs and should be compensated as so. Even in states like Texas, the average teacher makes well above the median salary and receives good benefits, which are supported by a majority of groups.

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Theal12@reddit

Teachers in the US last an average of 3 years. The ‘summers off’ is usually filled by a second job because they aren’t paid well, nor are they supported by the majority who say things like ‘they are overpaid.’ And the knuckle draggers who want to ban books they themselves have never read.

Teachers are forced to teach in overcrowded classrooms with minimal support. They often pay for supplies out of their own pocket. They work long hours outside of the classroom preparing lessons and grading papers.

https://www.maci.com/patients/find-a-maci-specialist/?zip=11101&distance=20

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wandering_engineer@reddit

There is free preventive care in the US.

There is no such thing as universal free preventive care in the US. Maybe certain municipalities like NYC offer free care but NYC != US. I grew up in the US and have lived in numerous cities across four states, I have never once had free healthcare as an option, even when I was unemployed.

People in the US have a very unhealthy lifestyle.

I do agree with you on this, the lack of restrictions on questionable food additives and massive amounts of sugar in literally everything is appalling. I can barely eat anything when I go back now, it all tastes like sugary processed crap.

However I think that's a seperate issue. People living a very healthy lifestyle and eating extremely well get sick too. Hell literally everybody requires major healthcare eventually, it's just a question on how long you can go without it.

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danton_no@reddit

in NYC, full healthecare is free based on income Example, family if 4 under 80k.

If you need to pay a HDP, which is almost free even at high income, there is free preventive care.

We avoid processed food and food with sugar. The selection of fresh produce here in NYC is huge. Never seen such variety in any other country.

People eat out a lot here. If you buy ingredients and make things for scratch there is no issue

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wandering_engineer@reddit

Since you apparently cannot be bothered to read, I will repeat what I literally just said above:

Maybe certain municipalities like NYC offer free care but NYC != US.

And even for what you mentioned, that is not "the US has free healthcare". That is "a very limited number of low-income individuals who happen to live in one specific city in the US have access to free healthcare". Those are two very different things.

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danton_no@reddit

Yeah you are right.

I thought this was in the Norway subreddit. I usually defend USA that way because they always compare their tiny country to the worst case in USA.

When searching where to live I concluded to NYC as there are safety nets and are comparable or, in some cases, better to Norway.

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wandering_engineer@reddit

I don't know if you're American or if you just moved to NYC, but I'll say again that NYC is not at all representative of the US. Just moving to NYC is not realistic for most Americans, this is a city where even a modest apartment is over $5k/mo. That $80k/yr family of four that apparently gets free healthcare would likely be struggling very hard to even stay housed. Saying you have to be borderline homeless to qualify for free healthcare is not good, and is not comparable at all to having true universal healthcare like Norway or Sweden.

I will agree that there are absolutely parts of the US that are like you mention (NYC, California, maybe parts of the Pacific NW), they have a decent safety net by US standards (not great but it is something) and a very high standard of living. They also are completely unaffordable to Americans who don't work in tech or a related field. And the US also has plenty of people in Florida/Alabama/Mississippi who live with far less and definitely do not get government support. From speaking to friends in Florida, all the terrible things you hear about the state government are totally accurate.

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Honest_Television740@reddit

I don't know what the other commenter said, but I sure as hell hope they aren't talking about Obama care cause that shit ain't in every state, and the wage requirements vary too. Some states you basically have to be completely unemployed and not make a single dollar just to qualify which is not free healthcare lol. I'm lucky the limit is $40,000 in my state and I live in a red state too, otherwise I'd be screwed and probably homeless because of my narcolepsy and PTSD.

Seems like most people really don't understand that the US is basically just a bunch of small little countries more than anything. Only in America can you be rich in one state and poor or middle class in another lol. (Idk if or what other countries are like that)

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wandering_engineer@reddit

No, I think they were talking about some sort of expanded free healthcare for NYC residents. Which is great, but you have to be a NYC resident to qualify. Most Americans do not live in NYC.

Not surprisingly this sub is mostly frequented by expats and people who move around a lot internationally. Most tend to be extremely highly paid and live in a bubble (think tech workers, finance, F500 execs, etc) and are basically coddled by their employers. Unfortunately that results in a lot of foreigners who move to the US to work at Google or wherever, they get paid $500k/yr and get amazing benefits (or at least live in states with generous safety nets like NYC/California), then express denial and gaslighting when actual Americans like you and me tell them that, no, America really does treat most of its citizens like crap.

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Alarmed-Pollution-89@reddit

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Curious-Gain-7148@reddit

Im in the US. I have unlimited PTO and a company culture that really wants us to take time off. I am a remote employee, working full time. Some days I’m studiously working, some days I might have an hour or two of work to do.

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tossitintheroundfile@reddit

At most companies “unlimited PTO” is the biggest scam ever. You are not guaranteed any time off and have to ask permission for every day you take, which may or may not be granted.

The statistics show that people with this arrangement actually take less time off because the needs of the business - or at least the perceived needs of the business - take precedence over individual needs, health, and wellness.

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Curious-Gain-7148@reddit

I think there is truth to the general experience, but my post is about my experience. I share, bc if it’s my experience it could OPs too.

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Competitive_Ad_2637@reddit

That's good to hear that's your experience. I have "unlimited PTO" and every day I request off "operational need" is brought up whether the day is approved or not. Recently had a 2 week vacation planned for months and a couple weeks before asked if I could reschedule it. I don't understand how people in "leadership" can sleep at night.

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Curious-Gain-7148@reddit

That stinks. I’m sorry.

My manager just asked that we all give the time off from now to end of year and said that we will all be off the last two weeks of December.

I guess my only tip for OP would be to interview the company as they interview you. Company culture is a key differentiator.

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Honest_Television740@reddit

That is rare and just not the norm unfortunately. I'm only familiar with construction and healthcare in Ohio but I've never even heard of unlimited PTO until now lol. 1-2 weeks max a year has always been standard with pretty much every job I've ever looked at it, and trust me I've looked at a lot. I have family in the medical field and state jobs too, same deal, but usually it's 2 weeks per year minimum, or PTO is accrued for every hour worked. But you can only keep a maximum of 2 weeks for any place I've heard of having it, so you can accumulate more than 2 weeks, but you'll have to use it throughout the year so it doesn't go to waste.

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Curious-Gain-7148@reddit

This is another key point, different states have different laws around PTO. If I were moving here, I’d probably evaluate state protections too (especially if I’m considering starting a family.)

In some states (like CA) your employer cannot take your accrued PTO. Once earned it’s yours. It carries over into the next year and must be paid out should you leave. However, once you reach your max PTO, you can’t accrue more until you’ve used some. In other states (like, OH from your comments) PTO is uncapped and you stand to lose it if you don’t use it. Your employer is also under no obligation to pay you for your accrued PTO should you quit.

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Honest_Television740@reddit

Sorry I worded that very poorly, I meant to say the PTO is capped, so you won't earn anymore once you reach 2 weeks. But yes, I'm not even surprised California has a law like that since it's a blue state. Red states don't seem to care one bit. Also your last sentence is very true as well lol, even for regular PTO. I think legally here they are supposed to pay it to you, but it doesn't seem to be well enforced towards small businesses here, so if you don't know any better (like me) you'll miss out.

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Competitive_Ad_2637@reddit

I did interview them during the interview process, specifically about work/life balance culture. They said they claimed they valued it during the interview. But then again, they lied about of lot of things during the interview process.

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Consistent-Barber428@reddit

The US is the single best country to make money. But, like all investments, there are costs. That money comes at the cost of your time.

I now live in Europe and constantly hear people complaining how hard it is to make money while at the same time complaining when they work 40 hrs a week.

To be more specific, if you can make at least $200-300k and live in NYC, you’ll have a blast. You’ll also probably work 50+ hours a week. Your choice.

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Honest_Television740@reddit

The amount you make does not correlate at all with work hours in the US lol. I mean the poor have always worked more hours than any class above them, all over the world and throughout history, and that really hasn't changed much.

I worked 12 hour days my first job when I was 15 pouring concrete, paid under the table literal table scraps. $75 a day or $7/hr in 2015-2018 during the summers. My first full-time job I didn't work overtime but the drivers for our crews worked 16 hours a day, so that was about 80 hours a week. Those guys only made about 17-20/hr. As the jobs went on, I usually ended up working more hours due to pressure more than anything, but construction isn't something you can do steadily while working long hours in the field, you will injure yourself quickly which I ultimately did, gave myself sciatica when I was 19. I have tendinitis in both of my wrist too. All of my joints pop a lot too, I'm only 24. My last job I averaged about 50-55 hours a week. I was also only making about 27/hr at my last job.

I can promise you anyone making 200-300k a year are probably not working crazy hours unless they are in certain roles in the medical field or a lawyer. You will see union construction guys make over 100k working overtime, but it's usually only pipefitters, or very very very specific jobs in specific locations that arent very common. Not all states are pro union, not all states have smart unions, so your milage will vary. The US is definitely the best place to make more money, like if you're rich or something, but probably not the best place to make money in the first place. If you exclude outliers that make crazy amounts, most people aren't making much even with degrees, and experience, relative to cost of living, work responsibilities, stress impact from work, etc.

Meh. In Spain, things are highly hierarchical. Compliance is demanded and creativity is discouraged. Micromanagement is standard. Salaries are 1/3 of the US, promotions are slow, work experience matters less than a degree. No one responds to emails, things that should take minutes take weeks. Work hours are tightly controlled, yet overtime abuse is rampant. Everything follows a process that is only enforced by broken systems in the background.

In the US, I worked 35 hours a week, had almost unlimited autonomy in my job, everyone was efficient and I was making more money at year three of my career than I will even make here. There are labor boards to go through instead of the years that the courts take. If I lost my job, I'd have another in a months whereas here, it may take years.

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Honest_Television740@reddit

Your experience in Spain sounds like my experience in the US, and I was born here lol, then again, the experience of foreigners especially if you come here with money, can be vastly different compared to born citizens. The US however, is far too big and different in every corner to be generalized much. We are a big country with a bunch of small little countries if anything. Pay and experiences are different state to state, city to city, neighborhood to neighborhood, and state, cities and neighborhoods are huge in the US so there's a lot of room for differences, California alone is bigger than the entirety of Japan. Spain is only slightly bigger than California but not even close to the size of Texas.

So for perspective your experience in Spain is only comparable to someone's experience in just a single state here as far as generalizations go. Pretty much moving to another state may as well be moving to another country, culture, dialect, expectations, laws, wages everything, especially wages. You can be rich in one state, and dirt poor the next.

One thing most people agree upon is that being poor here, especially being born poor here is like living next to a black hole that only sucks up every dollar you make. It's hard as hell to make enough to make more money, and you have to make enough money first before you can make more here, especially in states like NYC or California. The US is good for making more money, but definitely not good for making money to start with. It's the land of opportunity after all, things will only work out when good opportunities are available to you, when they aren't, good luck finding them.

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lotsofaccounts22386@reddit

This has not been my experience in Spain in tech at all (but yes, you nailed it for industries outside of tech).

I work in a Spanish tech start up which is not bureaucratic, has a growth/agile mindset, vacation days are highly respected (we get 28), lots of state holidays, and work life balance (you can answer messages after hours if you want, some do, but you aren’t obligated or expected to) and it pays well for Spain.

Sure, there can be crunch time during a project where you might put in more or less time to get it done by deadline, but no one is forcing you. I’d be making triple the salary in the US and paying much lower taxes, but cost of living here is lower and I really do love the respect for work/life balance and time I get to travel extensively. Plus public healthcare. And it still feels like a safe environment for families if you have one (more social & community oriented, kids play freely outdoors still, guns aren’t everywhere).

Everything has a trade-off.

I think what others have said is true : if you have an exit strategy to make X money for X years and then go back to Europe, understanding and accepting the tradeoffs, it’s doable. Just depends on your priorities.

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proof_required@reddit

I worked in tech in Spain and I concur with whatever has been written above you. In addition of all that I also saw nepotism where the whole executive were all buddies and used to give each other bonuses while workers had to survive on peanuts. People also had to stay late to work even if they weren't doing anything.

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fabstr1@reddit

"Dynamism is not culturally appreciated in Europe".

Europe is a continent.

" things are highly hierarchical. "

Completely different from the nordics.

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chiree@reddit

Yes, when I think of dynamic cultures, that are open to rapid change and acceptance of new ideas and ways of doing things, I think of places like Germany, Denmark and Norway....

By the way, whenever someone make a generalization about Europe, which is a culturally district region with more in common within itself than with the world outside it, in a thread asking about Europe in broad generalizatios, make sure to make the cliche comment that "Europe is a continent," and pat yourself on the back as to how you told those stupid Americans how stupid they are.

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vilk_@reddit

Interesting. That sounds remarkably like Japan.

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snowluvr26@reddit

At a lower level - yes; at a higher level- no. Higher level employees make so much more money compared to other countries and also usually get excellent perks that probably strongly outweigh the cons of slightly more working hours or whatever.

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ConsiderationSad6271@reddit

But the vacation time usually diminishes the higher up you go, despite getting more time.

I started a job in Germany last month after working a variety of jobs in the US (offering anywhere from 10-unlimited vacation days), and I still get more vacation time for half a year than I did for a full one at some of the best jobs in the US (18 days). My total comp is about 35% lower, but with a family coming from a high tax us state, I pay roughly the same tax percent. Don’t really care though, because things are proportionally cheaper here.

Europe all the way. Still trying to figure out how to use all that time.

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snowluvr26@reddit

Idk if that’s true. I work in corporate NYC and my superiors are basically off the whole summer lol they’re in the Hamptons or Europe

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Honest_Television740@reddit

"NYC" "corporate" "superior's" there's your answer

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n0transitory12@reddit

Ty for listing the difference in total comp. I work in tech and I’m thinking of moving from the US to the EU (France) and I’m trying to get an idea of how much the salary gap really is. Is 35% typical or do you think it could be wider in other countries?

Labour protection isn’t what is used to be in Europe either. I guess it depends where you are, but for example Netherlands has a lot of protection on paper, in practice it’s a different story.

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djazzie@reddit

In france, the workers have a huge amount of protection. It can be nearly impossible to fire someone even if they’re not doing their job. The process can take months and months, and it’s expensive.

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Sure 🤣

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hudibrastic@reddit

If you think the US is the only country that includes part-time jobs and gigs in statistics you are very naive

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Manonemo@reddit

I believe there are some countries that have part time jobs. Maybe some includes them into statistics. Sure. Then there are some countrues that dont have part time jobs at all , yeah yeah i know shocker for all experts out here. Another shocking news might be - no other country has such a huge proportion of part time snd gig economy as USA. If there is, Im unaware, please do share official statistics comparison on amount of part time and gig jobs included. Im all EYEzeeees eager to learn. Official sources only of course. To compare gig stats USA vs... the loads of tons of other countries ;;;)

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hudibrastic@reddit

The Netherlands has the highest percentage of part-time jobs, with over half of the population in part-time jobs, followed by Switzerland and Israel

The US doesn’t even make the top 12 https://www.worldatlas.com/articles/12-countries-with-the-highest-rates-of-part-time-employment.html

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They do offer protections, such as monopoly laws as well as required healthcare protection and all of that. But as far as doing your job and whatever other reasons they’ll fire you immediately.

There’s protections even for people with disabilities which is different than most countries which don’t. But still, that doesn’t safeguard you from being fired and yes, the work life balance is horrible, most of the time you’re off at work, not at home.

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alu_@reddit

Theal12@reddit

High tech is frequently based in high cost areas

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alu_@reddit

Yes, you can absolutely make a lot of money in tech in the USA. Cost of living, raising a family, multiple cars, medical costs, day care, etc. all eat in to that.

However, this sub-thread was specifically about the how it's more common to take sabbaticals in the EU and a big part of that is you don't need to stress about losing your health care since it's not tied to your employment like it is in the USA.

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1vanhoe@reddit

I definitely think you’re underestimating the cost of healthcare in the US without good employer-provided insurance. Even if you save on a good tech salary, if something bad happens and you need healthcare, you’re not going to have the hundreds of thousands of dollars that it will cost you to self-fund your medical costs. And shitty exchange insurance is not going to be as helpful as you may think. For most people in the US, even in tech, it’s just not a safe option.

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Dizzy-Height-5833@reddit

Of course they can. Why are you speaking in absolute terms? No one (sic) can say with confidence that “no one in the USA can take a sabbatical”. Most people cannot, due to a mix of material circumstances they are unable or unwilling to change, and to their own lifestyle preferences.

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HedonisticMonk42069@reddit

True, I'm from the states, mostly a blue collar and construction background. I don't see it so much in the younger guys today(20-30s or early 40s) but the boomers love complaining out load about how many hours they worked this week. You only worked 40 hours this week! must be nice, I worked 60.

Like fuck man, that isn't anything to be proud, your body is broke, you have a shitty home life and near to no relationship with your kids or spouse.

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Theal12@reddit

Sabbaticals are not common in US work culture. If you want to take a year off, you usually have to quit which means no health insurance or salary until you find a new job. It’s not an issue of workers having rights being absurd, it’s simply the reality working in the U.S.

When you quit your job you likely won't have health insurance. Our health care is not affordable without having insurance. Also majority of jobs do not pay enough to be able to figure this out. If you look at our average pay it's inflated because of our wealthy 1%. If you take out the top 1% the number is plummet

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Nice-Obligation5537@reddit

I mean you can still go with your own plan of health insurance without a company and there’s some affordable plans. But you’d still have to work part time.

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alu_@reddit

Of course many rich people can. From an upper middle class perspective, quitting your job and giving up your employer provided health care plan and then having to pay for some shitty plan from healthcare.gov is non option. It's much more expensive with much worse coverage when compared to most tech company's employer provided plans. Especially if you have a family you need coverage for.

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EatFishKatie@reddit

It's really terrible. First, you go to college for a degree that gets you nowhere and costs $100,000+ so now you owe your life to student loans. You can't get hired because you don't have work experience so do the American thing and you lie to get the job. Then... You realize the "entry level" position you are in had such a steep learning curve because it should be a team/department doing the work, except it's just you on call 24/7. It pays less than what you need to live in the area and get to work. You get "emergency" phone calls at all hours of the night. If you are salary, the US has laws for IT/Tech workers where you doing get paid overtime because you get benefits. If you are a contractor the US has laws where you don't get benefits because you get paid over time.

Every project is ran by someone with a business degree who has no background or any idea what the heck they are talking about. They put you on projects you know will destroy or hurt the company in 5-10 years, but management doesn't want to hear it. Anyone who speaks out about their project gets "laid off" for not being a team player. Good luck proving anything because companies are now firing and laying people off and claiming the employee is at fault which means you don't qualify for government assistance and it's almost impossible to fight.

If you are younger, good luck getting a bonus or a pay raise. Even if you are the most important person and they could not survive without you, they will refuse to give you more pay or treat you better if they think you are green.

Then... The real fun is when they decide to do their biyearly layoffs. You will burn yourself out working hard to prove you deserve to work there, either to get randomly laid off by a business guy who has no idea what you do or you keep your job and you now get to do the work of all the employees that are gone. Also... Some companies decided to outsource to countries like Mexico and India because they can pay them less and treat them worse, you now you have to find a way to train a rotating door of overseas contractors who don't speak English sometimes and/or only work at 2am.

Yup. I was expected to log in a couple of days after major abdominal surgery. Even if I hadn’t nobody would have covered me and I would have come back to a nightmare anyway.

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LegitimateGift1792@reddit

This is why I tend to take long weekends and not full weeks.

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blueberries-Any-kind@reddit

my father in law just visited us during his honeymoo and first vacation abroad in 10 years. He worked every day in the mornings 🫠

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DatingYella@reddit

Another question is: is the middle class salary of America really that much higher than Europe?

Regarding work culture: I think it heavily depends on company culture. But it seems like there’s a much higher focus on being available for work emergencies.

The thing is, if you’re a high performing employee, and you’re in a highly paid industry, you will be rewarded for that at a much higher scale than anywhere else in the world. So for those who can make it, you already likely work in a way compatible with the US. The amount you make is just now different.

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proof_required@reddit

is the middle class salary of America really that much higher than Europe?

It's kind of

The OECD publishes stats on the average hours worked in its member countries. The US falls below the OECD average of 1752 hours per worker.

I'm not sure which country you're comparing against so it could vary, but to add some perspective, the difference between Germany and the US is 470 hours per year. If we assume an 8 hour work day, that's 58.75 work days. The average American is working almost 60 days more than the average German.

There certainly are folks who go to the US and aren't bothered by the work-life balance, as some people tend to be wired that way and that's perfectly fine. But I suspect that if you're already asking about it, my guess is that it's not going to jive well for you unless you go with the short-term goal of making the money and getting out after a few years.

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All the teachers I know ow in USA make over 90K. I few over 130k. And their pension fund (extra pension) is great. In Europe teachers have no pension fund. Norwegian teachers get paid about NOK 500K before taxes. So around $30k per year. Their total pension will be $25k per year. Other countries are much worse

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Science_Teecha@reddit

You’re right. It is amazing. And hey, schools all over the country are hiring! You should absolutely get in on this racket.

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danton_no@reddit

I never wanted to become a teacher. What I am saying is that this profession is not better off in Europe.

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Science_Teecha@reddit

It may not be better off job-wise, but the life is better. Also, no shooter lockdown drills…

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danton_no@reddit

People in Europe struggle to survive. I was born I'm USA, but I lived there 2/3 of my life. I still have a frugal lifestyle because that is what I was used to.

Next time you stop to get a coffee at Starbucks, remember how easy it is for you. Or when you fill your tank. While in Europe and working my ass off, even a coffee at a coffee shop was a luxury for us. Yes, healthcare was covered but it was crap. Using the car was too expensive.

Moving to another country that you are not a citizen of puts you in a disadvategeous position.

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When you pay taxes, do you pay OASDI? Is there another pension you will get?

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danton_no@reddit

From Google:

"However, Social Security benefits may be reduced if you receive a pension from an employer who wasn't required to withhold Social Security taxes. This reduction is called the “Windfall Elimination Provision” (WEP) and most commonly affects government work or work in other countries"

I am sorry, but if you didn't pay contributions on that income, why should you receive SS proportionally to that income?

From what I quoted, WEP also affects me. But it makes sense. Why should the US government give me pension for the income I had in other countries? I wish I did as the pension I will get from abroad is a joke .

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Science_Teecha@reddit

You’re right, we’re both on the same page. I don’t pay into SS, but I do pay into a state pension (roughly 10% of my income). It seems like you’re suggesting we get more than one pension, but that’s it, just the one.

You’ve listed the perks, but 30-50% of US teachers quit in the first five years. What other job has those stats? 60% of Marine recruits don’t make it through boot camp, and that doesn’t last a whole school year.

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danton_no@reddit

Anyway, I initially responded to your comment because of the European aspect. I keep seeing Americans believing it's better in Europe, which I disagree.

Regarding your profession, I would never select it. Maybe if I was a teacher in elementary school it would be OK. Probably for the smaller grades.

Regarding myself, I am not happy with my profession. I studied my ass off, have worked for more than 2 decades, and still need to work until 67 or even after. Big impact to that had my decision to work in Norway. Pension is very very low, discrimination, low salaries. Maybe if I was born Norwegian things would be better.

Life is much better in the US. There are problems. Example the rat race everyone is talking about. But I think it is self imposed. I see colleagues that sign off at 5 and generally work little. Americans self identify themselves through their jobs.

Unless you're super good at what you do, that sounds like a poor match for most tech jobs in NYC or Silicon Valley. Tech generally wants workers who are fully committed to the team, and will step up during crunch time. The ideal worker is highly productive, goal-oriented, enthusiastic, and very responsive.

Going on holiday can also be a drain since most trips are 1 week or at most 2. At a lot of places, you'll come back to an extra heaping of work to catch up on when you return.

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tennysonpaints@reddit

From what understand, the only free time you will have will be in your dreams, if you move to the US.

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Soft_Welcome_5621@reddit

It is hell. It’s why we love visiting Europe.

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im-here-for-tacos@reddit

Yeah, that'll be rough getting adjusted to. I'm an American and I think my work-life balance with my current US employer is better than my previous one (also US-based) and mind you I've yet to take two weeks off of vacation this year so far, I don't get paid for on-call/overtime, and even when I take vacation I'm practically expected to respond to emergency messages if something were to break. It's unfortunately the downside of working for a startup in the US but I also do get paid $165k so 🤷‍♀️

Ironically, working for the federal government has great healthcare and leave. You start off earning 4 hrs per pay period and after several years you earn a full 8hrs per pay period. Your regular leave and sick leave is separate. You can carry over 240 hrs of regular leave per year. If you don’t use it you lose it!

If you work for an agency with hybrid work, that’s even better. You can definitely create work life balance.

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sedelpha@reddit

Is a pay period a week, two weeks, or a month?

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helvetica_unicorn@reddit

Two weeks

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xenaga@reddit

I work for a European company but in the US Office. My boss is German. Love it. We get almost 30 days PTO and summer time, some people are taking 3 to 4 weeks off. 2 weeks is minimum. I dont like the job, I've outgrown it but I like the European culture we have.

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one-blob@reddit

Try to get a month long leave without getting on PIP later on

A lot of fancy tech workers in here bragging about jobs that don't meet the minimum euro standard are also leaving out the fact that if your boss has a bad day and wants to hurt someone, you can be fired instantly for any reason in most states with no chance of getting unemployment, since you were "fired."

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tnp520@reddit

Really depends on what type of job you have. My career field I am granted plenty of time off. 8 sick days, 24 vacation days and 2 personal days plus all holidays off.

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BugResponsible8286@reddit

It’s worse than you’ve heard

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PoolSnark@reddit

It depends on the level of your job. A good US job in tech for example would mean 3 weeks vacation plus plenty of federal holidays. Also included would be health coverage. Stay long enough and 3 weeks turns to 4 weeks. Jury duty pay, sick days, etc. Sabbaticals are not unheard of. Other lower paying jobs don’t have such benefits so it depends.

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cappotto-marrone@reddit

It depends on the work place. Waaaaay back in the 70s I was in the US Army, stationed in Germany. I remember our company commander telling us that unless we were saving leave for a big trip we should be taking a week off from once a quarter. If our bosses didn’t like it report it to him.

I’ve had to tell people that they cannot work off the clock and they need to take vacation.

My current boss is amazing. The other day it was getting cloudy and I said I was going go home. Okay. He trusts that there’s nothing time sensitive.

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PreposterousTrail@reddit

The best benefits I’ve ever had in the US came from the military and it’s not even close. 30 days of leave a year and you can roll over some of it to the next day. If you’re sick you can go on quarters whenever you need it. 100% of medical care paid for, paid maternity leave, subsidized childcare. It’s basically like being in a socialist country, better by far than anything else I’ve experienced in the US.

Outside of that, much better benefits and work-life balance overseas.

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_Lobot_@reddit

It depends. Varies by company, industry, and heck, even region.

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Dizzy-Height-5833@reddit

You can say hell on the internet, or does using “impolite language” go against your corporate policy and threaten you to lose your job without warning?

Do you have at least six weeks of vacation, various national holidays and the day before free? Can you be on an indefinite sick leave? Do your children have a completely free education until university graduation? What happens when you lose this job? Do you live in a “right to work” state? Are you on the mercy of your corporate overlords or are your rights protected by laws? Are they the same for everyone working in your field?

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_Lobot_@reddit

Huh? If there is someone who is purposely creating a toxic work space - by sexual harassment, bullying, etc. - then shouldn’t they be fired?

Furthermore, ”free university” isn’t a corporate benefit. So, I don’t know what that has to do with work environment.

Wow… what cities would be good to work for ? Planning to work in tech the mid to late career switch to government.

Is NYC good?

Interesting fact about the state. I might have to keep it in mind. But federal has the most interesting jobs in tech prob.

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_Lobot_@reddit

NYC isn’t bad. Probably better than most across the country. They’re finally starting to get competitive with pay and I think they still offer a pension plan, which many other places don’t.

I think best places to work in government would be on the west coast, especially California. I notice they pay a lot more than other places. Even some of the county agencies have good opportunities. My sister was a finalist for this one position with Santa Clara county in the Bay Area and they were offering double her federal government job and she gets paid well by the Feds.

With the state, it obviously varies. For NY, state paid the least, but there was like no work. I remember it would be months in between having something to do.

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DatingYella@reddit

Oh wow. That’s insane. Considering how I will likely end up in California. Good to know. Prefer nyc tho.

I’m sure the dc area is good for living too. Appreciate the perspective!

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DatingYella@reddit

Further more, regarding the guy who you responded to:

Free university or low cost university absolutely happens in the US. I went to college without any tuition at a top school because of needs blind financial aid. All I had to do was pay for cost of living.

I think he’s saying on average your situation is unique. If you average across all industries. Which I can buy. I doubt unlimited vacations and the encouragement of using them is fairly rare.

Ditto on this. I work in tech and I moved to Sweden from the US and all the Swedish companies I’ve worked for so far (three) have had a pretty high paced nature compared to what I was used to working for companies in the Midwestern US for 16 years

It all depends imo

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just_anotjer_anon@reddit

There's a difference between high pace and long hours

It's fairly common for Danes to not stay in Spain, because you can't get anything done

But good luck getting a Dane to work over 40 hour a week, and touching the 6 weeks of vacation + holidays. Ain't no way.

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bullet_the_blue_sky@reddit

wym - they don't use all their vacay?

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No-Dentist1348@reddit

100% this

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VictoriaSobocki@reddit

I’ve heard the same!

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Ok-Peak-@reddit

now work a job at a place that has a work culture (and pay and benefits) most Europeans would never dream of.

Can you elaborate with some examples?

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teamhae@reddit

I’m lucky and have a great work life balance. My company forbids working off the clock and I’m up to 4 weeks vacation so I travel abroad about a month a year (not all at once). I don’t love my job but I’ve stayed for a long time because I know the grass is pretty green where I am and a lot of people don’t have it so well.

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Derzilla87@reddit

I work in tech and it can be as bad as mentioned. I have had to work really long days and weekends but I have the flexibility to take PTO whenever I want with reason. But like how others have mentioned, I get called on my off days or vacations to work.

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Otherwise_Mix_3305@reddit

Working here is high stress, no work/life balance and very little leave. It is quite possible to have a professional, full-time, salaried job that provides you with 5 days off a year. You’re lucky if you’re allowed 3 sick days. For the YEAR. You don’t want to work here.

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keep_on_traveling@reddit

My experience with 10 YOE in tech: I used to live in Philly making $175K in an easy to me job with 20 day vacation, 10 holidays plus sick days. In office 7-8 hours,

A couple of years ago, I switched to a full remote (non faang) job that pays $350K. The first 6 months were rough due to a new tech stack and business domain. Now I'm back to cruising. I may respond to after hours slack messages but it's rare for me to be logged in more than 6 hours. Vacation is "unlimited" but I've been averaging 25 days (+ holidays) plus more traveling from remote flexibility.

Daidrion@reddit

I'm not from the US, but the best time in my career was when I was working for 3.5 years straight with almost no vacation taken (I think I took like 2 weeks over that time period) and regular overtimes, but at the same time I received huge bonuses, had good efficient team and high-paced processes.

Now I'm in Germany where the ceiling is very low and hard to push through, at the same time productivity is not rewarded while slacking off is not punished (a lot of countries in the EU are like this). Yes, I get my 28 days of vacation + holidays, but it never feels enough and I usually can't wait for Friday. My QoL is lower due to a relatively low salary compared to high CoL and high taxes. It's not just one company either, I've worked for 3 now.

Point is, "bad" work culture doesn't necessarily mean bad QoL. In right conditions high paced and well rewarded workplace can be very energizing.

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DatingYella@reddit

I think the part about having a good team, being financially rewarded are really what people look for a lot of times unless they’re truly just lazy bums. The job security doesn’t even matter that much at that point.

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Ok-Duck-9949@reddit

I dream about moving to Europe EVERY HOUR.

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pissboots@reddit

My brother's wife works in tech in Seattle. She couldn't even get a couple days off to fly to CA for our dad's funeral. She had to work from the Airbnb other than during the actual funeral. They also hadn't been able to fly home together for 4 years prior to that because she's "too important" to be gone from the office for more than a day or two.

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Less_Attention_1545@reddit

I worked for a company that tried to open in Europe but gave up because they couldn’t legally implement the same policies they do in the US and it was too difficult for them to have different expectations for employees so yea

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Itsthelegendarydays_@reddit

It really depends on the company, especially if it’s a global company or not. Global companies tend to be more flexible with vacation time because they’ll have European and Asian employees. Remember, your healthcare and retirement is tied to your employment as well.

I would only move if the company has great 401k matching, good vacation time, and good healthcare benefits.

All that being said, I love the US. It’s the land of convenience — you want something? Cool, we have 20 variations of it. We also have beautiful nature and cities. I’m in Canada now, and I’m considering moving back but the election makes me weary.

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Yes

I do not agree with this. I work in tech and the Americans really pull their weight more

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Glittery-Frosting24@reddit

I work in healthcare in the US and I have great work life balance. I have found though that it really depends on what area of the US you live in. When I lived on the West Coast, people had pride in having 2-3 jobs and would shame you for only working one job. But those people also spent a lot of time vacationing on their days off. Now I’m in the Midwest and my job only requires 30 hours to be full time. My coworkers have absolutely no interest in working more than the required hours and think I’m strange when I pick up a shift.

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It depends. IME the work life balance was _significantly_ better in the US versus now in Austria (and talking with colleagues/project partners, they say the same about Germany, Italy, and the Netherlands). The expectation is to work however long is needed to get work done, and they knowingly give more work than is achievable in 40 hours.

Vacation time is higher on average in Austria, but my income and buying power are so much lower I can’t do much with the extra time. As for holidays, there are on average more paid holidays in the US, especially considering how often a holiday falls on the weekend - in the US you still get a holiday, in Austria it’s a shame, no holiday day for you then.

I personally prefer the work environment in the US and intend to return in the next year or two. but again, as everyone will say, it depends

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risingsun70@reddit

It’s all about perspective. Work culture in the US is oftentimes worse than in the UK or EU, but is generally less toxic than in Japan or Korea.

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pandaappleblossom@reddit

Don’t do it. I live in NYC in tech and at aware of the quality of life differences in Europe. I wish I could go to Europe instead, even with a significant salary drop. The US has such expenses it’s ridiculous. You don’t make as much money as you think. Not to mention the awful landlords and rent, omg, and terrible weather, rude people, dirty trains filled with crazy people and drug addicts. Europeans come here and try to bring their laid back lifestyle but they end up blocking the sidewalks, like it’s such a different pace of life. Don’t do it.

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LunarLovecraft@reddit

I’m a Canadian who married an American who lived there for 5 years, when I moved I thought “how bad can it be?”

Bad. It’s inhuman, in my opinion. We moved back to Canada in 2021 and I do not regret it.

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mr-louzhu@reddit

Mileage varies by city, state, and occupation. And also employer.

I lived in a chill, medium cost of living coastal city, with an abundance of tech jobs. The work life balance in just about all the jobs I had there was pretty easy going. But I worked in white collar roles, where the companies offer good benefits.

That being said, labor protections in the US are weak. Unemployment insurance is weak, should you lose your job. And should you lose your job, you also lose your employer subsidized health insurance.

However, your standards may differ. It's pretty standard in American corporate jobs to get at least 2 weeks paid time off. Very rarely do you get more than that. Sometimes you get less. And sometimes you get none at all. But 2 weeks is generally the standard for white collar jobs. And while most states are at will and you can be fired for any reason at any time, the jobs pay more than their overseas equivalents and there's an abundance of them to choose from across thousands of cities on the continent.

If you find a good job in a nice city, it's really not that bad.

There's a lot of stuff about the US that's a real drag. But every place has its downsides. There's also a lot of things about the US that are very good. In my opinion, a lot of the negatives are exaggerated in people's perceptions, for the most part. But everyone is going to have a different take, depending on their own preferences and personal/cultural background.

The point I'm making is they aren't obligated to give me 30 days. German law mandates 20 days for 40 hours week. And no German employer ever gave me 30 days. Max I ever got was 28 days.

ashe141@reddit

Depends. My job is remote. I work 4-5 hrs a day. Salary is 200. Frankly love my life.

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amoryblainev@reddit

It’s hard to say. As others have said it varies wildly between industries, location within the country, the company, etc.

We have no federally mandated sick or vacation / PTO, paid maternity/paternity leave, etc. This means that some companies give a lot, some companies give a little, and some give none.

Health insurance: Most full-time, salaried positions offer health insurance (often paid by the employer but sometimes only partially paid, and the employee has to pay the rest. I never had fully-paid health insurance). If you have a part-time or hourly paid job, you usually aren’t offered health insurance. If you lose your job, you eventually lose that health insurance.

PTO: again, there is no required minimum or any requirement at all, which means you might get some or none. You might get a lot or a little. I’ve heard of some places in Europe where you’re given months of paid leave every year - I’ve never heard of that in my life in the US. There’s also usually no requirement to actually use the days that you have. For instance, I had a job where I had 7 days of PTO per year, and I’d usually take 1 day. In my experience your coworkers and managers often guilt-trip you for taking days off, and coworkers will say you’re lazy behind your back.

Maternity/paternity: there is no federally mandated paid maternity or paternity leave. While most companies offer paid maternity leave and some are offering paid paternity leave these days, it’s often less than 60 days. In most companies where I worked, if you took maternity leave you were paid 50% of your wages for 12 weeks. If you didn’t return to work after 12 weeks, you forfeited your position. Again, this varies greatly between companies and locations.

All4megrog@reddit

If you’re coming in to make a bunch of cash and have you’re exit strategy lined up, you’ll be fine. If you lived here and knew you’d have to ride this grind into the grave… yeah

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Gandalf-and-Frodo@reddit

Bosses are usually borderline psychopaths that will fire you at the drop of a hat. About 50% of coworkers are insufferable in one way or another.

The work culture is usually super toxic.

American work culture sucks ass. That's just my experience being a native here.

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innocentbunnies@reddit

If you’re wanting to know about work benefits like paid time off, vacation time, sick time, or holidays, those vary WILDLY from employer to employer and from state to state. I’ve had jobs where I had no form of paid time off so the less I worked, the less money I got that week. I’ve also had jobs that offered up to two weeks of vacation time and a week of sick pay. I’m about to start a new position that offers no paid time off in any capacity until after I’ve worked for one year which will then give me one week of paid time off. Having said that, my mom has a position where she has unlimited paid time off and it seems like employees are encouraged to use it but that’s still a rarity. This all also depends on how high up the business food chain you are too. I’m just getting started on my new career so there’s an expectation that I’ll work more for less whereas my mom is very capable of having a c-suite level position and that experience gets more perks.

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Eden_Company@reddit

US work culture gets better the more you earn. If you work min wage then either you don't have any hours to work, or you'll be booked for the maximum hours possible all without any healthcare access. If you earn 200K a year then you likely can choose when you want to get off work if you get sick. Though you'll have to be doing a job that entire teams are unable to accomplish without you.

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picklepuss13@reddit

I’ve had 2 weeks or 0 vacation for most of my life. In the last few years I got 3 weeks. After Covid I feel like many places bumped it up to 3…

As far as hours well depends on company culture but most ppl working 40-50. Execs managers often pulling 50-60. High earners in places like Manhattan sometimes pulling 60-80.

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JRLtheWriter@reddit

It's highly variable and I would take the reports with a grain of salt. If you work in a competitive field with a bunch of high-achievers and the potential to make a lot of money, then of course work-life balance is going to be tilted in favor of work. The folks willing to live for their job are going to advance and those who aren't are going to get forced out. But those people know that going in.

There are also firms that have a more relaxed atmosphere and where management doesn't really micro manage your schedule as long as you get your work done. You'll make less money in those places but still more than you'd make in an equivalent European position.

I will say that taking a whole month off is not the norm in most US workplaces. And that may be difficult to arrange, especially in the summer when many people want to take vacation to line up with school holidays.

Also, what I'm describing is mostly in reference to people with in-demand skills or early career folks with good credentials. There's a whole other layer of low-and semi-skilled office work, where bad management is the norm and companies generally try to extract as much value from their workers while giving up as little in return.

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kokoborohenn@reddit

Finding a good work-life balance in the US can be a real challenge, but it's not impossible with the right company.

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MikeFromTheVineyard@reddit

Yes and no.

If you work in tech that’d be very different from a lawyer with billable hours.

If you want to work in tech you’ll have a very manageable work experience. You won’t have protections that prevent you from answering an email after hours like you hear about in France… but you certainly won’t just “work eat and sleep”.

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meloriot@reddit

no universal answer to this. it depends! i went to grad school here and then joined a medium-sized media/tech company in nyc. the work life balance here is unusually great (pretty generous PTO, unlimited sick days, one mental health/month, 3 floating holidays, 1 day for your bday, summer fridays, and so on). it's not the norm but i have friends at other companies that have a similar cultures. but like i said, depends on the industry, your role, seniority, etc. i also think i could make a lot more money at a larger tech company but currently the free time is more important to me.

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ontothemystic@reddit

I'm a contractor in IT for a big old company. That said, I get 5 sick days a year and that's it. No paid vacation and I had to work while sick with covid. Couldn't afford to be unpaid while I recovered. I don't work for a tech company and do not get paid those wages. Pay varies significantly depending on the company one works for.

I also don't get health insurance and pay for that after taxes. It's expensive. Also have to have a car and car insurance is very expensive too.

Basically, we get paid higher here but our cost of living is higher in different ways. We have to pay for our retirement by saving extra money, and most Americans don't have extra to save. If you come over as an expat that will pay your rent and car then you'll save a lot of money. But, if you have to pay all those things on your own, chances are strong you won't. It'll be a cool opportunity to see and do new things if you do it though.

I lived in Europe and had a better quality of life on less money. I'm trying to go back. I don't hate it here, but I hate things about it. If you're a woman, be careful of which states you move to. Our rights are being reversed in some of them.

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Yes.

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i-love-freesias@reddit

Yes

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notthegoatseguy@reddit

You can't be forced to work in the US

If you want to go home after working two hours for the day, you can.

Your boss doesn't have to continue employing you if you go home after lunch every day.

Ultimately you'll need a visa and during that interview process you'll need to research your employer and understand the job you're signing up for . If you don't believe the job is a good fit for you, you don't take it.

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Unable_Tumbleweed364@reddit

Yes

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ibitmylip@reddit

do you qualify to work in the US?