Jaguar To Kill Five Low-Profit Models This Year, Only F-Pace Temporarily Survives
Posted by Secret_Company@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 217 comments
suzukijimny@reddit
At this point, will Jaguar survive as a brand in 2024?
dotancohen@reddit
Four months after this comment, still in 2024, the answer is a resounding NO.
klayman69@reddit
I went to a Land Rover dealership over the weekend and I asked them about Jaguar which the salesman told me they are going full electric so it will probably be revived as electric brand for the company. That makes sense to me because Land Rover has no electric model and Jaguar already made a few. But I can be completely wrong based on the information was provided by a salesman only.
PSfreak10001@reddit
They come back as an all electric, 200k super exclusive Manufacturer in 2025. And honestly, that sounds super interesting.
Legendver2@reddit
Meanwhile, MB saw the writing on the wall and killed all their EV plans to go back to ICE for now. Once again Jag is late to the game.
PSfreak10001@reddit
They didn‘t kill all their EV plans, they made them less ambitious and less risky. Big difference.
But they have something worth protecting, Jaguar doesn‘t so there isn‘t really a risk to lose non existant marketshare, hence why all EV makes more sense.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
I am not sure how well it will work out for them. It seems like a fairly crowded market now relative to the volume you can get. It's bad enough that most brands up there are part of larger conglomerates to help share costs and parts.
CuddleTeamCatboy@reddit
They’re pivoting to go further upmarket and competing with Aston Martin. Considering how badly Aston has been floundering until recently, I’m skeptical that it’s a viable strategy.
Liet_Kinda2@reddit
It’s going full electric and will be positioned as more of a niche premium manufacturer like Maserati.
countdoofie@reddit
That's a bad idea. Jaguar is a storied marque that is responsible for design and engineering breakthroughs, and they want to turn it into Fisker? Here's a better idea... release supercars like the XJ220 or C-X75 in limited numbers (which will sell), keep the F-type, and then release a luxury sedan and SUV that competes with Bentley and Rolls that don't look like bricks.
konck@reddit
Was there anything the XE did better than the other compact executives?
Legitimate-Dingo-634@reddit
I owned an XE until recently. Very lightweight, the car was 3,400 lbs with that aluminum unibody. Very precise steering and very quick at that size. It was just a much more fun driving experience than a C-Class or a 3 Series and in my opinion, if you got a blacked out model and not one with the old school, grey gunmetal allows, much better looking and interesting than either of the above. Whenever I pulled up to a red light, I knew I wouldn't see three more vehicles just like mine.
I also own an M4 and I would rather have the XE as a daily than any 3 series save the M340i or M3.
Maatsya@reddit
It's strange how Tata has made Land Rover enormously profitable but's struggling to do the same with Jaguar
eggdropk@reddit
Sedan-heavy lineup and heritage in a crossover/suv world. Opposite is true for LR of course.
thatgymdude@reddit
Land Rover is not doing so well either, yes it creates sales technically, but its only because their products are currently "fashionable" in their respective segments without really offering anything better. Drive a X7 m60i or a GLS and compare against the Range Rover. The Range Rover is just the 150% more expensive option that does not do performance or interior comfort better, its all because of the brand name and how it looks.
Same can be said for the Range Rover Sport, an X5M or a Cayenne GTS can easily do its job. Even worse, Land Rover is so incapable of making reliable drivetrains, they literally went to BMW for their engines in their volume offerings. That is pretty damning long term for a brand if the need to do that. The only interesting thing they have really is the Defender which is unique to them, but even there, they have strong competitors.
Land Rover is resting on its brand name, and when the brand is no longer fashionable, it will be discarded by the buyers like Jaguar.
MechMeister@reddit
People with Land Rover leases coming up are absolutely going to replace them with Cybertrucks and Ineos Grenadiers.
balakebro@reddit
The Grenadier is pretty sweet. I don’t know what long term ownership would be like, but it is a really cool SUV.
LCHMD@reddit
A Cyberturd is not a valid RR replacement to anyone.
airvbkj5@reddit
Is this a joke?
thatgymdude@reddit
Cybertruck for sure that vehicle is designed for the EV version of a Range Rover buyer. The Grenadier I kind of doubt personally as that vehicle is a bit too focused for the offroading crowd. It also lacks the attention-seeking exterior the Range Rover has. I could see a few Range Rover customers getting the Quartermaster as its so unique, but not the typical Grenadiers.
The Range Rover market is mostly for the attention starved now, they will seek out things like the G63 AMG, BMW XM, Range Rover Sport. Lamborghini Urus, and the Maserati Levante on the lower end. I have driven the L460 for myself and I had a very hard time finding something it did better than a top trim X7 or frankly even a SQ8. It even fell behind it in driving comfort because of its huge wheel package, more road noise than you expect, floppy dynamics, and the interior electronics are rage-inducing compared to the less complex (but still awful) iDrive9.
To me the Range Rover is just as vapid as the G63 AMG, except less power, and the feeling that you are driving something overhyped. It is like if Apple and Gucci made a car together, with the worst qualities of each brand combined. It was the most anxiety causing rental I ever had too, because where I was people just despised that car, I literally never got a break from all times I was cut off, people refused to leave parking spaces if they were backing out and saw me, and it was magnet for the worst kind of people wherever I went. After that trip, I despised it too.
airvbkj5@reddit
The new Range Rover SV is more powerful than a G63.
NSXelrate@reddit
Got it, you don't like RRs. I personally wouldn't own an X7 or an SQ8, and their looks are so far behind the RR, all the comfort in the world couldn't fix it. That being said, I like the interior of the Rover more than the BMW or the Mercedes.
Yes, the Range Rover is just as vapid. But the difference in power is quite negligible. Even in Dallas, there aren't very many times you'll be street light racing against a G wagon and inevitably lose by a couple car lengths.
I feel you're projecting a bit. I've owned Rovers for 10+ years now and I've never had anyone being a tool just because I drive a RR. If someone's being a tool, it's because they are a tool.
thatgymdude@reddit
If you like the car dont feel like I am downing you for having one. I am just a typical normie that has been given the chance to drive all these cars. I am also willing to pay more for a better vehicle to daily since I am such a busy person, I need a mobile office wherever I go and spend easily 3-4 hours a day on a phone often driving. It needs to be office quiet and comfortable, or I have less attention dollars to spend a day because the car was the straw that broke the camel's back on top of my work load.
Someone like will deeply dislike vapid products already, and due to how horribly expensive it was, I expected a lot more out of it, and it failed to deliver. Some vapid products can also live up to the standard they claim too., a great example is that Rolls Royce Ghost I got to drive for 3 days. That car actually lived up to its name. A 200k+ Range Rover I expect to be the best SUV, there is zero excuse when you charge that much, looks be damned.
I don't know what projecting means, all I was trying to say was that car made a trip unpleasant in a way no other car did. Where you live people probably are more tolerant than the place I was. You also are brave to take a car that expensive to Dallas, that is one place I will never visit again because of how psychotic drivers are there.
NSXelrate@reddit
You sincerely defied my expectations for a reasonable response, kudos! (no sarcasm), as reddit can be quite toxic, and I applaud actual discussion!
Gotcha, makes sense as for the mobile office thing. I'm happy to make sacrifices for 24s and tiny sidewalls for the look. I've never had to take any call in my cars, and I actively dislike doing anything that distracts from driving. To preface my opinions, I still think something like a CTR is a decent interior considering the compromises it has to make to be a sports car, so perhaps my opinion is just skewed and my threshold for luxury comfort is just much lower than yours. I'm even okay with my previous gen Rover not having lane keep assist despite vehicles that are 1/5 the price have it.
I will agree that in the past couple years, the full size RR has ballooned into a price that I'm not sure it deserves, but I do think that it is still an extremely nice place to be in. I have no experience in any Rolls Royce (Ghost being $400k+), as that is just truly vapid IMO, or perhaps I'm just that poor.
But considering semi-reasonable super SUVs (sub $150k), IMHO, the Range Rover (and the Range Rover Sport), both tick boxes that BMW, Audi, and Porsche cannot touch (NA V8 supercharged, air suspension that auto-lowers when you park, hydraulic anti-roll, styling, but these are all things that are intangibles, similar to how driving a manual feels). Porsche comes close with the driving dynamics, but the Cayenne is truly a dog comparatively in looks, as are the top end BMWs and less-so with Mercedes SUVs.
I'm assuming that you live in a city that isn't quite as big as Dallas, so your observations are interesting and not ones that I've really ever experienced even on road trips. That being said, I agree, Dallas drivers are crazy, but I'm all for it. 90 in a 70 is normal in the left lane.
Thanks for your reply and I'd be happy to buy you a beer if you ever are in Dallas and want to talk cars. :)
thatgymdude@reddit
I wish all subreddits were like that, but I know its a lost cause.
reddingw@reddit
Someone is triggered
BoomerHomer@reddit
No one is replacing a very, very luxurious and spacious SUV by a stainless steel gizmo with the usability and luxury of a small wheelbarrow.
NSXelrate@reddit
No thanks to either. Classic Defender >>>>>>>>>> Ineos Grenadier.
Maatsya@reddit
I for one love the boxy look of the Ineos
GettCouped@reddit
Don't think so. Different demographic.
sephirothwasright@reddit
I cross shopped a New Defender and I know many owners who either came from a New Defender or did the same.
MechMeister@reddit
People with money that want to be seen? 😂😂😂
airvbkj5@reddit
There’s a waiting list to buy new Range Rovers. They are sold out. It’s almost like a Porsche 911. Look at used prices for the newest model.
They are extremely popular. The other models you mentioned don’t have the off road capabilities. Nothing has the same combo of off road capability and luxury. Except perhaps for the G wagon, but that doesn’t have air suspension - it is more old fashioned.
JLR do make their own engines. Only the V8 is BMW - most of them are in house.
DiscoLives4ever@reddit
Maybe the Hummer, although the luxury may be stretching
thatgymdude@reddit
Hot take, but another overhyped car with a similar problem. It is is not loud enough or special enough justify its pricetag and motor journalists praise it too much. Unless you are getting the 911 GT3RS or the GT2, why bother. I would much rather have a C8 Z06, AMG GTR, or a GT500 instead of a 911 Carrera, I personally have driven a Carrera 4s and was like "thats it?".
Koil_ting@reddit
The engine thing isn't really an issue they used a GM sourced engine in the range rover for decades, the most recent iteration of the Toyota Supra uses a BMW engine etc.
airvbkj5@reddit
Also it’s not the case that the volume offering is a BMW engine. Most of them are in house engines. They have inline 4 and 6 cylinder JLR engines. Diesel and gasoline.
kbee540@reddit
JLR is doing just fine, making record profits and can’t build their SUVs fast enough. They have a constantly full 18-month pipeline and their margins are knocking on Porsche-level - average Defender doing $50k+ margin per unit and full fat Range Rovers even more. Jaguar is in a resetting phase that will see them releasing high-end electric luxury vehicles to compete with Bentley and Aston Martin. Tall order that, but they have mounds of cash to build them. The rest of the Jag range is therefore being ramped down in preparation.
RunAwayWithCRJ@reddit
This is bad analysis. People buy Land Rovers because they don't want to buy any of the big 3 and they think Macan/Cayenne are ugly.
Big 3 have significant brand dilution because of their lower segment models. And they never seem to get their large size SUV design language correct. X7 should not be the least ugliest full size german offering.
LR has a good moat with both brand prestige and design language.
NSXelrate@reddit
Agree with this. SUVs from BMW, Mercedes, Audi, and Porsche SUVs (except Macan) do not interest me in the least. Only other SUVs I'd own is a Defender, classic Defender, or a Urus.
furioe@reddit
I’d disagree here. I’ve sat in them and I felt like Range Rover was better. Material and quality wise they had better interior imo.
halfbottled@reddit
Hell nah the new Range Rover is absolute butter. Materials are better too
TheChickenScampi@reddit
Not to mention, they've grown over time with the addition of the Evoque, Velar, etc. broadening their portfolio. So, it's simple that they've got the name, capability, and luxury even. Yeah, I know their reliability can be so-so, but they're good cars in other respects.
bestselfnice@reddit
Notice how the only surviving model for Jaguar is the same type of vehicle Land Rover makes exclusively? Not a coincidence.
Tresarches@reddit
Also jaguar has complete lost their identity. If your not a car person I bet you would recognize a jag on the road now adays
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
I saw a XJ yesterday. It's insane how much presence it has on the road compared to other cars in their lineup.
LCHMD@reddit
The last XJ will be a future classic.
Nyyppanen@reddit
Saw an old turquoise E-type today. Oh man it was good looking. Shame people don’t buy (small) sports cars anymore.
Nidungr@reddit
A Jaguar is a sporty low slung sedan or coupe with a massive hood and a V12 underneath. This is incredibly hard to translate to the modern world of electric CUVs.
It is not impossible to design a CUV that looks like a Jaguar, the Mazda CX-60 has the right proportions. But even that styling is on a clock due to electrification.
Cadillac had a similar problem, but the Lyriq suggests they are trying to solve it. They included just enough of those old luxobarge styling cues while introducing a new EV/CUV-native styling that will gradually take over as the new face of the brand. I expect that Rover style fastback and extra side window to go a long way. (Their problem is instead that non-Tesla EVs are basically the Android to Tesla's Apple.)
Jaguar could have done something similar. Make a CUV that is proportioned like a Jaguar and add some sort of obvious styling cue, then eventually transition into abandoning the old proportions and keeping the new styling cues.
Graywulff@reddit
The f type is really hot but skip the rest.
Ayatori@reddit
And they can be had for cheaper than a new BRZ in pretty great condition lol
thirtyfootsmurf@reddit
Yeah... There's a reason for that. The car might be cheap, but the maintenance most certainly isn't.
MechMeister@reddit
in 2013ish I had a Jag XKR come into the shop for intermittent no start. I found that it wouldn't start, a left brake light bulb wouldn't work. If you pushed the brake pedal harder, the brake light would come on and it would start.
I found that this brake light was a simple 1157 bulb SOLDERED to a PCB board that was on the computer network, and the board had a burn mark on it. A new "Brake lamp module" was something to the tune of several hundred dollars in 2013. Because the computer wouldn't start the engine unless it got a signal that the 1157 bulb was lit up.
Also, if you didn't lock the car using the key fob, and then walk at least a few feet away, the backlight on the gauge cluster would stay on and kill the battery overnight. So I had to tell customers that they had to lock their car inside of their garage.
cobalt_mcg@reddit
Reminds me of the horror stories of Cadillac XLR tail lights. Standalone boards to control the led taillights that would fry themselves.
BrewsedSloth@reddit
Bc that shit will burn a hole in your pocket for years. Jag/LR reliability has been hot garbage forever.
Graywulff@reddit
Didn’t know that. It’s cheaper to get an f-type than a lot of cars.
To buy.
I assume it costs a shit ton to keep running.
You’d need to go back to a 996 to get that cheap.
Porshuh@reddit
This isn't the reason. Volvos are understated and have continued to sell well.
R_V_Z@reddit
I don't think Volvos are understated anymore. They seem to be one of the last manufacturers still embracing the long hooded 3-box design. Any time I see an S90 or S60 I think it's a sharp looking vehicle, at least compared to many of its contemporaries.
Porshuh@reddit
And how is any of that untrue for the Jaguar XE and XF?
R_V_Z@reddit
Those were a bit curvier, but the real reason is that Volvo has a reputation for reliability (which it may or may not currently deserve) while Jaguar has a reputation being your mechanics favorite brand.
7eregrine@reddit
Saw a drop dead sexy convertible literally yesterday. Caught up to it... That's a Jag? Fucking 🔥
ctruvu@reddit
fuck this world
Quatro_Leches@reddit
only regulations can save us. people want to drive big cars so they dont get hurt, because others are driving big cars, its a catch 22, and only regulations can solve this
not only this is an issue of safety, because these big cars are MUCH more likely to kill pedestrians, but also, more material, and heavy, worse for roads, enviroment, etc. ontop of that. they eat up so much road space and make traffic worse.
airvbkj5@reddit
The regulations made like this.
ctruvu@reddit
honestly if it just leads to politicians realizing pop up headlights weren’t the issue and we can get them back i’d be ok with it
Arnas_Z@reddit
Is that really the biggest consideration people make when buying a car? I feel like people are always justifying buying SUVs because they want more interior space and like sitting up high (which I personally hate), rather than safety concerns.
Quatro_Leches@reddit
in my opinion, in the states, that is the biggest reason, and the states is a big market,
cars dont need to be 4 feet above ground to have good interior space. its getting absurd, crossovers have become SUVs, and SUVs have become M1 Abrams.
Arnas_Z@reddit
Honestly, USA needs more strict drivers tests and driver ed like the EU. I got my license with basically zero effort other than waiting in line and booking appointments.
Harder tests wouldn't solve everything, but I think they would at least remove some idiots from the roads.
MonoDede@reddit
I, for one, am looking forward to driving a Panzer Maus as my next grocery getter.
reward72@reddit
I’m with you. Fuck SUVs and crossovers. The whole industry is losing me.
whoistheSTIG@reddit
What are you gonna do? Ride a bike? Lol
reward72@reddit
I'll daily a new boring appliance and keep buying used manual ICE cars for as long as I can for weekends.
ilostmyfirstuser@reddit
i mean… yes
whoistheSTIG@reddit
Good, I just doubt people will actually take a stand. I live in NYC so I bike and take public transit all the time
standbyforskyfall@reddit
this sub's refusal to understand that crossovers and suvs are just more popular with the average person baffles me
BerniesMittens@reddit
I think we all know that they are more popular, we just struggle to understand why they are more popular.
JaffaTheOrange@reddit
It’s quite simple. For roughly the same footprint you get a higher driving position and more boot space.
Average person doesn’t give a shit about dynamics and the suv/crossover styling is actually quite good now
banditorama@reddit
And a minivan offers even more cargo space and even more seating. While still giving you a higher seating position and more legroom.
If they don't care about driving dynamics and value utility, they should be buying minivans. But they're still considered "lame" and "boring" by consumers.
OkThrough1@reddit
A minivan typically has a longer wheel base and overall length, which compromises manoeuvrability and compactness in parking lots or street parking.
banditorama@reddit
The Honda Odyssey has a slightly better turning radius than the Pilot and much better than the Passport. It's just over a foot longer than the Passport and less than half a foot longer than the Pilot
The difference is negligible.
OkThrough1@reddit
Ah, small disconnect there. I wasn't comparing the 3 row SUVs. Top selling SUVs / CUV in North America are the compact / subcompact; RAV4, CRV, Rogue, Outlander, Escape, Equinox, etc. i don't remember the exact number but IIRC they do outsell the 3 rows by a fairly big margin.
banditorama@reddit
RAV4 Turning radius: 36.1'
CRV Turning radius: 37.3'
Escape Turning radius: 38.4'
Odyssey Turning radius: 36.7'
OkThrough1@reddit
Uh, did you typo?
Honda Odyssey US: Turning Diameter, Curb-to-Curb - 39.64 cu ft
Honda Canada: Turning radius (m) - 6.05
banditorama@reddit
No, I was going off the Car and Driver specs.
OkThrough1@reddit
Huh, C&D must have made a mistake then. Typically wheel base length and max steering angle typically dictate how tight the radius can be. Longer wheel base, bigger radius, the bigger steering angle, the smaller the radius. So, short of some sort of exotic configuration, there's minuscule chance of an Odyssey having a smaller turning circle then the smaller CUV's.
Nidungr@reddit
The number of CUVs has reached the point where it gets really annoying to drive a low car.
I don't necessarily want a CUV, but I want a car that is at least tall enough to look over the beltline and through the windows of a CUV. My car claims to be a hatchback but is actually noticeably taller than a regular hatchback and that turns out to be just enough: https://www.carsized.com/en/cars/compare/cupra-born-2021-5-door-hatchback-vs-mercedes-benz-gle-2014-5-door-coupe-suv/
standbyforskyfall@reddit
Less space actually, the equivalent crossover is shorter than it sedan counterpart
JaffaTheOrange@reddit
Why would I want boot space not connected to the rest of the car. Saloon cars make absolutely no sense to anybody
Estate cars are 100x better
historicusXIII@reddit
Yeah but estates aren't selling either and car brands are axing them too. And they're non-existent outside of Europe.
strongmanass@reddit
Better NVH and the ability to completely separated from your cargo. That's advantageous if the cargo is particularly fragrant. You can also more easily keep the cargo completely hidden.
xamdou@reddit
For sedans to survive and thrive, manufacturers really need to give them liftback designs like the new Civic/Integra.
Arnas_Z@reddit
Yesss! Liftback designs are great, no clue why there aren't more sedans with it.
I've also seen tons of station wagons in the EU instead of SUVs, and it's honestly a very nice change of pace from the boring SUVs everyone drives in the US. I wish a lot more people chose station wagons or sedans here.
Iliveatnight@reddit
Ohhh I get what you’re saying, Honda needs to release the Civic Cross and cancel the sedan version!
xamdou@reddit
>:(
Mercurydriver@reddit
That’s because this subreddit is mostly teens, college students, and single guys that work in tech.
These groups of people don’t quite understand that other groups of people (i.e. older people, parents, women, senior citizens) have different priorities and needs.
There are 25 year old tech bros in this subreddit right now that are confused as to why a 40 year old dad would choose to drive a Honda CRV or a Toyota Sienna over a Jaguar F-Type or a Corvette.
PlatinumElement@reddit
I’m 43yo and married, and am still trying to convince my friends with kids to buy sportscars instead.
tiagojpg@reddit
I’m tired of this timeline man
Uptons_BJs@reddit
People were mocking ford hard for getting rid of sedans outside of China. But they were right! Outside of Chinese people, who’s buying sedans?
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
I went against the grain this year and bought my first sedan, after only having owned liftbacks and hatches.
That said, if the Si was available in hatch form, I'd have taken that.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
The Korean market still love sedans. It's why Genesis continues to make and update the G80 and G90, they sell well in the Korean market. also why Kia still makes large luxury sedans like the K8 and K9.
R_V_Z@reddit
Plenty of people. Just in the US in 2023 there were over 230k Corollas sold, over 200k Civics sold, almost 200k Accords sold, over 125k Altimas sold, over 130k Malibus sold, over 120k Fortes sold, and over 130k Elantras sold (using goodcarbadcar as a source). But those are all high volume low budget cars (potential fleet vehicles) while Jag has always been high premium/low luxury level.
Nidungr@reddit
Nobody buys these because they want a sedan.
People buy them because they can't afford a CUV.
TenguBlade@reddit
What this and other equally-facetious responses ignore is that in 2013, there were 302k Corollas, 336k Civics, 366k Accords, 320k Altimas, 201k Malibus, 66k Fortes, and 248k Elantras sold, as per the same website.
Dr__Nick@reddit
You need to add up Mercedes, BMW and Audi sales to get a real comparison. Jaguar has been an also ran for a long time.
Eranaut@reddit
I just bought a sedan last month
7eregrine@reddit
Me. While I still can. The one I bought was just discontinued (S60).
daelrine@reddit
In Europe, out of 180k sold Corollas, 70k were sedans (2023).
haarp1@reddit
they will also get rid of focus for europe (probably the entire world), which is very popular.
Gundamnitpete@reddit
The sedanese
Immynimmy@reddit
I don’t really know what jaguar brings to the table in their segment? I was never serious about getting one but I’ve certainly looked into it for fun and every other rival was better in some way shape or form.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
The refreshed F-Pace is very competitive tech wise and interior-wise now. It also handles well, looks good and the transmission and powertrain combo is smooth and has quick shifts. It is also closer to X5 size while competing in the X3 price segment. I would probably pick it over everything except maybe the X3/X5 or GV70/GV80.
historicusXIII@reddit
The F-Pace was the best driving SUV I ever drove.
PuppyMillReject@reddit
I seriously looked into getting one(xf sportbrake) for me it was the supercharged v6. Ultimately went with the A6 but the xf was definitely the more sporty of the two cars. Also supercharge whinr was more pronounced in the jaguar compared to the audi.
thatgymdude@reddit
The supercharged V6 was probably the best part about Jaguar cars, even more than the looks. I wish more brands would put superchargers in cars you would daily.
rickybobbyscrewchief@reddit
The Jag supercharged V6 paired with ZF8 is BRILLIANT. Better than BMW's N55+ZF8, IMO (I've owned both). So until you got into actual M cars, the Jag was strong competition. But then BMW had to get serious with the B58 while simultaneously upping their reliability game. And Jag was still trailing on the tech end.
bestselfnice@reddit
It's a Jag, baby
Emissary_of_Darkness@reddit
Yes, that is precisely what they bring. You get to be different from a guy who bought a BMW.
thatgymdude@reddit
That is not a high bar, and that is coming from a self-aware BMW driver. The whole "I am different" only goes so far when you look at lease quotes and drive whatever vehicle you want from each brand in its respective segment back to back. You will think "ok the Jaguar looks better on the outside, but the inside sucks and its inferior in everything else, also holy shit the lease price is almost double"
You can say the same thing for the Land Rover stuff too. Banking on individuality focused sales right now is not a winning formula, Maserati tried that and look what happened to them.
Maatsya@reddit
I really wanted to get an XE as my first car.
When it was time to actually get a car, they stopped production lol
Thomasangelo20@reddit
They look prettier tho, that's the only thing going for them!
PSfreak10001@reddit
They are BMW‘s with worse Tech but you don‘t see 45 per day. Also they look very sexy, to me atleast
kraken_enrager@reddit
The acquisition has made Tata into a great mass market/economy car manufacturer in india, they got all the luxury brand design and experience but also inherited all the unreliably and electrical issues faced by JLR.
But Tata, just by it’s dna is incapable of creating its own engines that may not be that good or profitable to begin with. It’s jus not the company culture and the leadership just doesn’t care.
PublicExecutive@reddit
Is it? SUV make money since forever.
Maatsya@reddit
I mean, even comparing SUVs the Jaguar doesn't sell all that much
PublicExecutive@reddit
Land Rover are known for their SUV. Jaguar isn't.
vexx786@reddit
Even pre-Tata I feel like Land Rover had and a more desirable/unique product than Jaguar.
UghNoWayToWin@reddit
Upping the price for LR also helps. LR buyers don’t care about taking it to the shop - they just get a loaner in place. Or have 2 LRs. And a butler.
THATGUYWHOBREATHES@reddit
Better heritage, higher “status” in society, and they exclusively make the type of cars that sell the most in the US at least. Every new Land Rover is a city-centric design that appeals to masses opposed to the old days of rugged utility that was marketed towards the crowd who loved adventure. Jaguar has remained a company that produces sedans with the occasional SUV/crossover thrown in. Sedans are a slowing market and Jaguar aren’t producing the most stellar vehicles anymore.
wheelsnbars@reddit
They have made some amazing cars. The whole kill off all the sedan/saloons is disappointing particularly as it’s still volume for the other luxury guys.
Terry___Mcginnis@reddit
I wonder if the E-Pace is doing ok too but it only gets axed because the brand wants to go upmarket. A shame because I think both the E-Pace and F-Pace are beautiful SUVs.
The sedans are a shame too of course since I think Jags are in general one of the best looking brands but the sales of those must be awful when even the suvs are doing badly and also need to be axed to go upmarket, the F-Pace will become the only model but once they release more models might stay as entry level. If they want to go upmarket I guess their next ev sedan instead of the expected "XE and XF but EV" is going to be an EQS Sedan and i7 competitor and the I-Pace successor probably an EQS SUV competitor (good job with the EQS naming Mercedes).
LCHMD@reddit
I never understood why they developed the E-Pace. Who even would buy that thing?
HillarysFloppyChode@reddit
I forgot the E Pace existed.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
Where I live in the Pacific North west, E-Paces do terrible. I see 10x more F-Paces than E-Paces and 5x more i-Paces. The E-Pace is withering on the vine with no updates for ages and is uncompetitive.
Terry___Mcginnis@reddit
I see. I'm from a small spanish island and here I see as many E-Pace as F-Pace. But honestly here people buy lots of entry level models from luxury brands (like the cheapest of the cheap Manuel diesel) because they like to create the illusion that they have more money than they really do. Also because in Europe we like small cars, for us an E-Pace or an Evoque is already big.
LCHMD@reddit
Bye bye Jaguar.
Party-Guarantee-9470@reddit
Any thoughts on the best plug in hybrid cross over/suv?
redspikedog@reddit
They should have kept the xkrs and gt coupe and not the F type.
biancainaflamboyant@reddit
Absolutely brilliant! 💗
Slipstream232@reddit
damn
roro_mush@reddit
They need to build an overpriced big boxy SUV and give it to Kim Kardashian. Only halfway joking here
lucygucyapplejuicey@reddit
It would take sales from their other SUVs they keep giving her, the Range Rover
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
I think it's funny that all these car companies are saying the quiet part loud and announcing to the world that they're only going to be making cars that they can charge the biggest markup on. They're all looking to rip us off and they're not even being shy about it.
Musickullar@reddit
Seeking high margin products is what businesses do. It’s never been the quiet part. It doesn’t equate to “ripping is off.”
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
if it has never been the quiet part, why don't they release the marginal cost of production for each vehicle and let the consumers decide for themselves? what ever happened to building a quality product for a fair price? it's just enshittification all the way down now and i'm fucking sick of it.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
Let consumers decide what? Which car to buy based on the marginal cost? Most consumers don't care and will pick the cheapest one that ticks their boxes.
JoseCansecoMilkshake@reddit
yes, consider marginal cost when shopping. if most consumers don't care, just release that information.
Musickullar@reddit
I guess you’re new to capitalism. Welcome aboard. You might want to hang out near the lifeboats.
Legendver2@reddit
It's because they're not talking to the average person. They're talking to the rich peeps who can just throw out 200k like nothing, drive it for a year or 2, then dump it into the used market. Jaguar would already have made their money by then.
kuddlesworth9419@reddit
Jaguar was best under Ford in my opinion, reliable and still had what Jaguar was all about. Under TATA other then the XK X150 they have all been a bit shit.
Legendver2@reddit
The autoblog version of this I read says they plan to sell $2m cars now. What?
caterham09@reddit
That's really sad about the XF and the F-type. It seems like by the end of the decade SUV's may be the only thing you can buy.
That said jaguar hasn't really kept those models competitive over the years
Quatro_Leches@reddit
I think with EVs, a lot of car companies will just straight up die.
the biggest thing about car development cost, is the engine, thats why car companies are many billions of dollar companies, or small companies that take their engine from big companies, but with EVs, you can get off the shelf electric motors and use it. there is gonna be a lot less difference between various cars, it's pretty much mainly going to be the styling.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
I agree that quite a few companies are under threat during the transition to EVs, but it's the cost of developing a competent platform while simultaneously keeping their current lineup going that's the issue.
Every EV that's had off the shelf motors and electronics has sucked and pretty much everyone has moved to their own in-house designs. See the Mach-E's terrible Borg-Warner motor, or the early Rivians as examples.
Rivian kind of had to since they're a startup, but their new motor is much better than the Bosch ones they started with.
EV drivetrains have just as much variability as ICE and it's important to do the engineering.
Quatro_Leches@reddit
well, a lot of companies are just outsourcing production to china. that was really not a thing with ice because it has to be in house.
Ancient_Persimmon@reddit
Some companies have their own manufacturing there, but no one is outsourcing their engineering, except for the China market "partnerships" that let GM claim they make half a million Wuling minis.
None of the good EVs available are using off the shelf parts for the more important components like motors and power electronics. Like I said, Ford tried it with the Mach-E and have switched to their own design.
Nidungr@reddit
Same happened to smartphones going from dozens of brands to just Apple, Samsung and whatever cheap brand is available in your country. They're little bricks that go on the internet, the formula has been solved, there is no room for anyone to excel in anything, so there is no reason for more than a few manufacturers to exist.
Some brands (Tesla, BYD, Geely) have already secured their chair. I expect VAG to make Porsche and Lambo stick but Audi is too far behind Tesla for a tech focused brand and every VW EV is the same cost cutting shitbox in different sizes (and VW is load bearing for Skoda). BMW has to figure out electrification quick and avoid the allure of becoming the Xennial Harley Davidson. Renault will have to morph fully into Dacia. Mercedes has the same problem as Audi on top of making the same mistake as VW, the Japanese brands will get eaten by BYD and Geely no matter what they do, and Stellantis has a million brands but they are all the same budget brand and sitting ducks for BYD. Ford is probably going to become a pure truck brand in the US and badge engineered VWs in Europe.
Desistance@reddit
Companies are still making their own in house electric motors. As the car specific motors improve, car makers will require more specialized functions as time goes on.
strongmanass@reddit
People say this a lot but I don't agree with the second half. I agree there will be less differentiation than between different cylinder counts, NA, super/turbocharging etc. But there's more to a different driving experience than just the engine.
Suspension is probably the thing drivers notice most, and that doesn't differ based on propulsion type.
There's also steering feel which is also not based on drivetrain.
You'll still have FWD, RWD, and AWD. 1, 2, 3, or 4 motors and all the torque vectoring you can do with an individually controlled wheel.
A chassis can still be designed differently for comfort or sport. Batteries can be placed as a skateboard, or down the middle of the car for low center of gravity and fine tuning weight distribution.
And then you have things like throttle response control like the Ioniq 5N. There's still a lot unrelated to the engine that can be done to give drivers different experiences.
Quatro_Leches@reddit
I think you're going to see a lot of outsourcing to china and rebadged cars. we're already seeing that
stickyfiddle@reddit
The F type is baffling to me. They launched it as one of the best looking Jags in 20+ years, and by accounts it’s a great car. Then they facelifted it pretty early and gave it a corporate front end that’s so bland I’ve literally never seen one on the road
desf15@reddit
6 years after debut is not „pretty early” for facelift, quite the contrary I would say.
SuperShyChild@reddit
I was walking to work one day and I saw a pre-facelift F-Type convertible in Firesand Orange parked up and it blew me away how stunning it was.
caterham09@reddit
I agree but I think you've got it a little backwards. The F-type had the same beautiful design until 2019 and then they kinda ruined it.
The first 7 years were genuinely one of the prettiest cars of all time too. Not to mention it was basically a European hellcat. Just an awesome GT car
stickyfiddle@reddit
No - that’s exactly what I mean. The launch car was awesome. The 2019 facelift made it far worse
caterham09@reddit
Well what I was saying is they didn't immediately change it
James_Vowles@reddit
Why can't they just make the car a sports car brand again. Land Rover make luxury offroaders, Jaguar can make luxury sports cars, or just sports cars, it's their history.
AllShallParrish@reddit
This doesn’t surprise me. My boomer parents love Jags but every single one they’ve had was absolute trash and died a horrible death. Theyre poorly made and parts are insanely expensive and these dealerships aren’t helping the cause either.
See ya!
Upbeat_Release3822@reddit
Weird how even the Waymo fleet Jaguar was killed off. I figured that was the one they would’ve kept but I guess not!
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
I wouldnt be surprised if the margin and volume on that was low enough that they didnt consider it worthwhile to keep around.
Juicyjackson@reddit
IMO, atleast in the US, Jaguar has kind of lost its status over the years.
It's just not a super well known brand, it's not really a huge flex to say "I have a Jaguar", like you can with Range Rover, Mercedes, etc.
They don't really offer anything that you can't get from somewhere else.
RiftHunter4@reddit
I'm still convinced that reliability issues have brought down brands like Jaguar, Alfa Romeo, and Maserati. If you can't beat the competition, you should at least build something to outlast them. But even a BMW is easier to own than some jags and will still you give you a better experience.
lowstrife@reddit
And the dealer network. If you live near one, great. But if you're 178 miles away from the nearest, that's going to be a problem for any new car purchaser. It's a hard chicken egg problem for major brands.
I know someone who is most likely getting rid of their Defender 110 for this precise reason.
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
And unfortunately, Alfa has been slowly losing dealerships over the years.
Larcya@reddit
Biggest reason I won't ever own an Aprille motorcycle. Not a signle dealer in my area.
Meanwhile their are 2 ducatti dealerships within 25 mins of my house. and 3 BMW dealerships.
krombopulousnathan@reddit
lol I feel this; I own a Ducati and trailer it to the dealer over 2 hours away. But that’s very easy to do with a UHaul rental for $16.
When I was shopping for cars I really liked the Alfa Romeo but closest dealer was again 2.5 hours away. So ended up with a BMW M2 Competition
Bradymyhero@reddit
Unfortunately these brands are cash strapped. At least Jag gets proper dealerships
I ran into Matt Farah and wanted to get his thoughts on Alfa, and he was spot on that it's a great driving and looking car but the brand has no money for everything else.
kraken_enrager@reddit
People will hate me for this, but many brands need some Chinese cash infusion. The Chinese get to use the logo locally and they get to revive the brand.
Maatsya@reddit
I think it's a mixture of reliability and brand image.
Range Rovers are notorious for being unreliable but people still see them as status cars
TP_Crisis_2020@reddit
Jaguars used to be a staple luxury car, that's where a lot of its status came from. We have moved on from old school luxury cars so the status of Jags and Cadillacs in that context is just gone.
Sun_Aria@reddit
Yup. I don’t feel like Jaguar has the allure it used to.
shithead-express@reddit
Can’t say I’m surprised to see Jaguar dying. Kind of a shame too, their sedans have always driven very well but been marred by reputation.
specialcommenter@reddit
Doing dumb shit like getting rid of the supercharged V6 and the V8. People had options, now it’s just a 2.0 for the XF
HTTP404URLNotFound@reddit
Its why I ruled out getting an XE and an XF.
shithead-express@reddit
Sadly the XF was pretty much already totally dead at that point.
txlens@reddit
THIS is what im pissed about. Downsizing is bullshit.
Maatsya@reddit
Another in a long line of british manufacturers going bust
Kinda sad considering the history they have and the number of motorsport victories they have
historicusXIII@reddit
The F-Pace was the best driving SUV I ever drove.
No_Season_354@reddit
Jaguar should go back to making sport cars , and just that .
Tace_X@reddit
Wow
n0t_4_thr0w4w4y@reddit
I didn’t even know Jaguars had 5 models
Mission_Problem9321@reddit
I want to know if I can swap a 6.4 or 5.7 hemi with a 2013 maxima. I’m into cars just don’t know all the mechanics. Please tell me the parts I would need & about how much it would cost please
Mission_Problem9321@reddit
It won’t let me post
Mission_Problem9321@reddit
Beauty
65726973616769747461@reddit
I don't really understand why Tata bought Jaguar Land Rover and then left it subsist with just some initial investment.
duckedtapedemon@reddit
They still had five models??
Mumphord123@reddit
F type I pace e pace XF and F pace I can think of
yejideabram@reddit
XE was another. I would’ve loved to have one if beyond steering and handling they were competitive. Similar problem that the Alfa Giulia has. But at least Alfa is throwing down some crazy discounts and offers on them.
xignaceh@reddit
xf, xe, e pace, f pace and i pace
atdt@reddit
I have an iPace, and I love it. I wouldn’t pay MSRP, but a couple of years used was a total steal. I only worry about part availability now.
TheChickenScampi@reddit
Honestly, here's what I think...
If Land Rover/Range Rover are the mass market sellers and a profitable division as a whole, then why not reposition Jaguar as this clean-slate, ultra-luxury, ultra-exclusive, heritage-focused, and a more hardcore performance brand all around. By this, I mean why not have a product portfolio arranged to be what Jaguar used to stand for: A Big Sedan, ultra sporty GT's, supercars, limited production special one-offs all around.
An entirely new flagship XJ that looks every bit as elegant and stylishly hot with proportions to match. Retro-futurism done well to the nines.
A Nice lengthy, yet lithe GT that is competitive on performance. Roars like an old school Jag with efficiency to match with hybridization.
Bring back past special race models as limited production with a touch of retro futurism in styling, but also innovate more in terms of powertrain technology. Capitalize primarily on hybridization technology. Even invest in other mechanical technology if need be.
All in all, I think Jaguar doesn't need to be heavily profitable as the Land Rover/Range Rover family part of the marriage is already doing solidly well on that front with their decent CUV/SUV lineup. So why not make Jaguar that race-inspired, exclusively hardcore performance model with immense call back to heritage and the future in mind? Also, Improve heavily and seriously in terms of quality so that people are happy and satisfied with their purchase. Invest in compelling marketing to make people emotionally crave a Jaguar. They need to renovate and revamp with a bang and consistency is key, not just look to short term satisfaction. This needs to be long-term planning.
Jaguar has potential, they just need someone that utilizes that potential to the moon and beyond.
GettCouped@reddit
Everything you talk about won't sell. That's catering to enthusiasts, who aren't the buyers.
TheChickenScampi@reddit
If you read my overall context to the brand's standing, I already stated that Jaguar would be better repositioned as an ultra exclusive sporting brand, half way towards boutique even (think somewhere among the position between Bentley, Ferrari, or even Bugatti. They've got the heritage and cachet of back then. Jaguare really can't do mass market because they would be in conflict with the Germans who already dominate the space of mass market luxury. That's even before we contrast it to the Land Rover/Range Rover family who are the most profitable of the JLR marriage. The Japanese rule with reliability. Granted Jag is struggling to be relevant currently, but if their reboot as the said ultra exclusive luxury performance brand is executed rather well, then I guarantee that they would still hang on to some share of their intended market. They've got to be their own thing.
James_Vowles@reddit
their whole idea of going electric next year is so stupid
boradbuilds@reddit
Not surprised too much as all of Jaguars sedan offerings are highly dated compared to Benz, Bimmer, and Audi. They would be wise if they did a total redesign and brought back the sedan as a luxury ev
ReserveDrunkDriver@reddit
Damn, so Jaguars are stopping making vehicles entirely? /s
LoPanDidNothingWrong@reddit
When they modernized the styling they lost a lot of what made them unique.
The reliability of the F-type at least has been absolute shit. I suspect that is true across their range.
Very few SUVs
Again range. Even their electrification was decent when released but fell behind quickly.
TheChickenScampi@reddit
I feel their primary forefronts of focus need to be on:
1.) Getting their quality straight once and for all.
2.) investing in a sense of direction and brand focus for who they want to be (which I think Exclusive luxury performance is more fitting for them anyways since the Germans are good at the mainstream game)
3.) Upping their standards on design. This will be sort of challenging as their best man Ian Callum left to start his own design studio.
4.) Invest in innovation and uniqueness to setting trends.
Dr__Nick@reddit
They won't because they don't really know what they're doing making electric vehicles.
PoopSlinger23@reddit
I didn’t know Jag even had 5 models
Dr__Nick@reddit
Because Jaguar and Land Rover are famous for the quality of their electronics. What are these Brits smoking? I guess Jaguar couldn't really be doing much worse, so just roll the dice on EVs.
Benz152@reddit
The ugly SUV survives of course.
Jamaican_Dynamite@reddit
There goes another one. Jag seemed like they had something good going for them pre covid. But I guess that was just them delaying the end.
If they're going to rebound fully electric, they better hurry.
Aromatic_Fail_1722@reddit
They're killing off the line-up to change strategy (yeah once again) in order to focus on very high-end luxury EVs. Which we all know will be too late to the party and overwhelmingly unsuccessful, as it doesn't match their heritage and public image one bit.
Shame. really. You've got so much history going on with the E-Type, XK120 and the XK8/R in more recent years. Even the F-Type was a fun & amazing looking sports car. And most importantly: that's what people know them for. Just focus on that market, go EV if you have to (ideally combined with other hybrid models) and make them a million bucks for all I care. Just don't try to compete with something that we already have way too much of.
V8-Turbo-Hybrid@reddit
Well, that's worse then their ex-owner Ford. Think about they unable doing same thing like Ford, they're really suffering.
k_dubious@reddit
Ah yes, the Chrysler brand strategy.
RallyVincentCZ75@reddit
XF and XE failed to stay competitive. Lost the V8s, lost the V6s, bad reputation. They were kind if like the off the beaten path choice compared to BMW or Audi or Cadillac. Problem being Alfa Romeo was also that (especially in the US since 2017), and Alfa managed to hold onto their brand image better. I feel like people mostly forgot about Jag. The F Pace SVR is at least spicy enough I see a lot of them.
Upbeat_Release3822@reddit
I feel like at this point jaguar exists for way no pretty much. That is the car they’re using for their robotaxi which just opened their fleet for anyone to use