French is a wacky language

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Totally_Normal_Bee@reddit

As a native portuguese speaker, you just kind of know the word's gender, either you already heard someone say it, or you can figure out what is the gender without even thinking about it, there are of course rules to determine, but i guess at a certain level you dont even think about it

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iwillnotcompromise@reddit

German is similar, but sometimes there are new words that people define differently, in German Coke is both female and neutral depending on if you are in the north or the south for example

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Taaargus@reddit

I really don't believe you when it comes to learning an object's name for the first time. There's nothing that says a table is inherently feminine.

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Gousse22@reddit

You're mixing up biological gender and grammatical gender, words being masculine and feminine in gendered languages is like electrical circuits being slaves or masters in english, it's an image, an analogy, not the same as the original concept it copies the word from. You can easily know the gender of a new word when you're a native speaker of a gendered language, because the ending of the word tells you so, it's about phonetics, not finding a bellsack below a table LOL This system probably derived from the ancestral proto indo european language, where there was an "inanimate" and "animate" gender, it's a fascinating subject.

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BBtheboy@reddit

An analogy of what ? What are you meant to imagine if its not biological gender ?

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Gousse22@reddit

As I said in the previous message, grammatical gender, it has 0 link with biological gender or societal gender, it is just a caracteristic like plural or singular, proper or common nouns etc ... No need to focus on french in particular, litteraly all europeans languages except english have it

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bluedragon8633@reddit

You've never run your fingers over the delicate polished mahogany curves of a table leg before, have you? In all seriousness you're correct- there are words that are masculine in some languages but feminine in others and that skews the native speakers' perceptions towards one gender or another. In English, we think of the man in the moon, but Spanish speakers would see things differently.

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discardednoob@reddit

It's how the words are spelled. Feminine and masculine names have specific spellings for genders and the same applies to nouns. Because every word follows a structure, that's how 'gender' for nouns is determined. It's built into the language. Some countries table is feminine, some masculine, it just depends on the word building rules. So yes, a table will be inherently masculine or feminine depending on what the word for table is, you don't decide or think about it

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imlazy420@reddit

If it eds with "A" It's a girl and "'O" it's a boy, works most of the time. Very much based on gut feeling though.

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Pasispas@reddit

Nothing stops you from misgendering a table.(El tabla instead of la tabla) Everyone will know you're talking about the table anyways. It's just an easy way to tell non-native speakers.

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Accomplished-Eye1825@reddit

Most of the time is with what letter ends (la mesA, el platO) but yeah sometimes you use what you think is best or what have you heard other using (la radio and el radio are both used in different countries, for example)

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Taaargus@reddit

Yes I mean you only know that because you're taught, not because of the way the object is. The comment I'm responding to is implying there's actually an inherent gender to objects that you'd know without being told.

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Heik_@reddit

It doesn't have to do with the object, but the word. The way the word sounds might dictate which gender it would be. It's similar to the [Bouba/kiki effect](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bouba/kiki_effect) but for words.

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DEN1SDWH@reddit

No, you're the only one mentioning objects. The original comment is talking about words.

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Totally_Normal_Bee@reddit

Its sort of like adjective order in english in the way that you just know what "feels" natural to say, this is usually due to how a word ends, such as table, in portuguese, translates to mesa, and all nouns that end in "a" are feminine, the thing is i dont even think about that rule, or at least dont mention it directly in my mind, it becomes second nature to the point that you dont even think about it

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Taaargus@reddit

I understand that but you only know a table is mesa because you were taught that directly. If you encountered some new object for the first time and didn't know its name there's nothing that would tell you it's "gender".

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ToreWi@reddit

Well, here in sweden there was a test where they took a bunch of made-up words and asked people what gender they were, neutre or utre. I think about 80% answered the same thing. There is some kind of rule, it's just that nobody knows what it is.

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PGSylphir@reddit

your argument has nothing to do with gender. You're saying you dont know a word until someone teaches it to you, and yeah, that is true for every language. You can learn Table is Mesa without knowing the gender. "q isso?" "mesa", there you go, no gender. It still is something any native Portuguese speaker would just know the gender. It feels natural to us, we dont need anyone to tell us what it is,yet I can't explain how or why it is either.

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11freebird@reddit

No shit

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Taaargus@reddit

Ok, so then you agree with my initial comment lol. The guy I was responding to basically said that he knew what gender an object was just by looking at it.

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DEN1SDWH@reddit

They never said that, they're talking about words not objects.

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xamdou@reddit

Do tables have five legs or four?

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Totally_Normal_Bee@reddit

Well yeah, im talking about looking at the word, not the object,

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gravitydood@reddit

Tables are sexy though 😏

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WarStormrage@reddit

A general rule of thumb that can be applied in most cases as far as Portuguese is concerned is that if the word of an inanimate object ends with an a its probably feminine, using table as an example its "a mesa" or the word for toilet "a sanita".

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Taaargus@reddit

Yes. I know. That's not what's being discussed. What's being discussed is how that's decided in the first place, not how you know it's gender once you already know its name.

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Merry_Dankmas@reddit

Just like the rules to card games, it was probably just created as it went on. They figured that "ah" sounded more like a sound that a woman would make and "oh" sounded more gruff like the noise a man would make. Pairing La with ah sounds more appealing than La with oh so they determined that was the feminine. Since ah and oh were deemed as feminine and masculine, the endings of words just made sense as to which gender they were. If I say every noun that ends with the letter H equals the color red, you don't have to guess or make it up for every word. The rule automatically dictates it and takes the hard work out of it. This general principle can probably apply to any gendered language for the most part. Where the exceptions come in - I have no clue how that happens. Bear in mind I have no evidence to back any of this up. I'm just guessing. That seems like something someone inventing a language would do and ye olde humans still probably thought similar to modern ones so it makes sense to me. Someone with an actual education feel free to prove me wrong.

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aVarangian@reddit

because it sounds 1000x better to say "a mesa" than "o mesa". One sounds natural the other sounds regarded.

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Taaargus@reddit

Yea of course once you already decided the word is feminine the adjectives before it should also be feminine. That's not the point I'm making.

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Skyyvodka000@reddit

In pt-br, toilet is "vaso sanitário", which is masculine.

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pikachuisyourfriend@reddit

In Portuguese you can tell the gender of a noun by its last letter. Usually "o" is masculine and "a" is feminine. Using your example, you can tell that "mesa" is feminine because feminine nouns end in "a". So when you learn the word you learn the gender as well. There are some exceptions, like the word "dia" meaning "day" which is masculine.

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Quasar47@reddit

It's funny cause table in italian can be both, tavola and tavolo

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cheater00@reddit

is there a difference in meaning?

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Quasar47@reddit

Yes, but is very subtle and people use it interchangeably

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cheater00@reddit

so what is the difference?

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Quasar47@reddit

It's subtle and the usage can changes from region to region. In specific situation you might use exclusively one of the two like when referring to a dining table with food you would use tavola. When referring to a table as a piece of furniture you would use tavolo. But generally speaking in everyday speech they can be used interchangeably with the same meaning

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cheater00@reddit

Ahhh ok!

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DomoTimba@reddit

Same with Polish, there is a general rule of which gender nouns are based on phonetic pronunciation although there are exceptions

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GreeceZeus@reddit

I'm actually surprised to read that there are "of course" rules to determine what the grammatical gender is. Because I think it's actually arbitrary in most languages like French or German. I don't know if it's different in Portuguese, but otherwise, I wouldn't present it as "of course".

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Apocalypseistheansw@reddit

In Portuguese and German there are some rules that will determine the gender. In German, for example, words that end with keit, heit, ung and schaft are 99% feminine. In Portuguese most words that end with “a” are feminine. I don’t think in Portuguese there’s a 100% rule to determine the gender, but that are many that helps.

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GreeceZeus@reddit

I guess the exceptions with "heit, keit, ung", etc. help, but this still doesn't make sense to somebody who learns the language. Why does "Freundschaft" need to be feminine? More importantly, why is it "DIE Schnur" but "DER Flur"? Yes, sometimes there are indicators that help you in many languages that have grammatical genders but I think that for the most part you have to have a feeling for the language (which you only do if you speak it fluently). So, coming back to the original point, I don't think that there are "of course" rules to determine the gender.

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BigBootyBuff@reddit

Or why do knife, fork and spoon all have different gender? Das Messer (objective), die Gabel (feminine), der Löffel (masculine)? A lot of it is just so arbitrary. I love German but I totally get why it's considered a pain in the ass to learn for non native speakers.

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systemfehler23@reddit

There's also "die Flur", as in a plot of farmland, but it's not much in use anymore.

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FreljordsWrath@reddit

"I JUST MISGENDERED A SALAD 😭" (btw olá caralho 👋)

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SlideHammer86@reddit

Anon presents le skill issue. French is so good anglos stole it before the content of the English museum.

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Aggressive-Tiger-209@reddit

Idk how it is for le french but in my language you just put an A at the end of the word and its a woman. Everything else is male or non-specified.

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L2Inconnu@reddit

well it’s basically the same rule in le french except 1/5 of the words do not follow the rule or it would be to simple for savages to learn our language

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Sigmatronic@reddit

Faux

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L2Inconnu@reddit

tu regardes les noms avec un e a la fin y’en a 80% ou c’est au feminin : voiture, verre, chause, télécommande..

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Able_Road4115@reddit

Ouais comme livre, astrolabe, téléphone, péage, homme, fonctionnaire, diplomate, ministre, maître, faîte, artiste, pirate... Je continue ?

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L2Inconnu@reddit

ouais c’est sûr tu peux faire dire ce que tu veux si tu prends toutes les exceptions c’est pour ca que j’ai dit les 3/4 des mots. pas la totalité. c’est la langue française y’a des exceptions

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Able_Road4115@reddit

Les exceptions à quoi ? La règle que tu viens d'inventer ?

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Sigmatronic@reddit

On dit un verre mdr.

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L2Inconnu@reddit

vasy jviens de me reveiller mon exemple pue mais c’est pas complètement faux la logique pas vrai

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Sigmatronic@reddit

C'est plus vrai que je pensais je te l'accorde

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L2Inconnu@reddit

ahaha merci, je m’attendais pas a ce qu’on tombe d’accord

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ambermage@reddit

I'm straight, so anything that makes me hard is a female.

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DrafteeDragon@reddit

Good thing dick is feminine then. Une bite 🙏

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Aggressive-Tiger-209@reddit

Cant find any plot holes in that argument

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Uncle480@reddit

I can find some holes in that argument. And those holes make me hard. Therefore it's a straight argument.

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vaguestory@reddit

*Therefore it's a female argument

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ntn_98@reddit

This argument is true and straight

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NanolathingStuff@reddit

Spanish or Italian?

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Aggressive-Tiger-209@reddit

Neither

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Derdorok@reddit

Since I haven't seen anyone guess - Polish?

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

Well since one of the genders your language has is "nonspecified" km guessing somewhere in Scandinavia? Danish, Swedish or Norwegian is my best guess

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Mental-Pay-1135@reddit

luso-african?

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Blessed_Bubble@reddit

Idk about your nationality, but I'm guessing you speak some form of Arabic language

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Frequent_Dig1934@reddit

Portuguese or romanian? I have no clue what romanian is like as a language but it's another romance language so maybe it works like those.

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Big-Commission-7226@reddit

Russian?

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Arham-DABilal_@reddit

Arabi?

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Secret-Painting604@reddit

Hebrew?

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USEC_was_taken@reddit

Just imagine if you had to assign a gender to a fucking table. Cant be me tho lol

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Frequent_Dig1934@reddit

In italian it's male if it's just the piece of furniture and female if there is food on it.

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-Vermilion-@reddit

What the fuck

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Frequent_Dig1934@reddit

Also one egg is male and multiple eggs are female.

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Virghia@reddit

Arabic?

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quinn_the_potato@reddit

> French is so good anglos stole it Normans conquered England. Anglos were then ruled by French royals. Basically had no choice but to speak French.

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OldManChino@reddit

Nah, that's why we have cow and beef, and other many such cases, boef was what the bourgeois ate and knew, cow is what is workers knew

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MrBVS@reddit

Only those French royals and the nobility spoke French, the commoners still spoke English.

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The_Third_Molar@reddit

After a few generations the languages blended and they all started speaking early modern English.

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Fun_Network312@reddit

This one gets it

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

Norm*ns forced their disgusting snail language on þe great folc of Enga land.

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PurpleBullets@reddit

Excellent use of Thorn

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Fun_Network312@reddit

Not quite but you're close. More like "The same reason the russian court all spoken french when Napoleon was around". Because it was fashionable

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Able_Road4115@reddit

Dude gonna bash his own head in when he finds out almost all Indo-European languages are gendered.

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thebeardedgreek@reddit

Pretty sure most languages assign genders to inanimate objects. Not necessarily defending it, I'm js

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M4KC1M@reddit

almost every single european language is gendered

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redstercoolpanda@reddit

Every language has its own levels of lunacy and stupidity. Like English having like 13000 versions of their. We should just go back to grunting at each other and making vague gestures.

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SllortEvac@reddit

Their, there and they’re? Seems a lot easier to me than the German the’s: der, die, das, die, dem, der, dem, den, den, die, das, die

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AlfaXGames@reddit

Honestly I don't mind either. They and their are two different words based on the same thing, plural people that aren't us. They're is just "they are". Complaining about it is like complaining about you, your and you're. On the other hamd the German "the" aren't just simply "the", they inform about plurality and "gender" of the word, sometimes different "the" can mean an entirely other word. That being said, I am ever so slightly, itsy bitsy, teeny tiny, little bit biased because my native language has gendered words and it seems natural to me. On a side note, english dum lmao

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onlyr6s@reddit

*laughs in Finnish*

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

No joke I think that out out all the languages that use the Latin alphabet, Finnish might be the hardest

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StandardN02b@reddit

The only lunacy of the english language is their propensness to replace letters or sylabes with an apostrophe, it's hability to make up verbs on the go and it's custom to use double letters for no fucking reason. The easiest language there is.

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NetStaIker@reddit

And yet you still write with the grace of an ape 🦧

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StandardN02b@reddit

I will gladly accept that I sometimes make gramatical and ortographical mistakes on a language that is not my mother tongue without using auto correct over being a brainlet that uses emojis unironically.

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REDDIT_HATER_NUMBER1@reddit

3 versions. how fucking stupid are you actually to think THAT is the issue with English

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Shawn_1512@reddit

There are literally only 3 different versions, it's not that hard

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PulsarTSAI@reddit

Ook ook ooga doodoo ogah

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skull_fucker79@reddit

wait wait wait why is it "doodoo" and not "doodaaa" now? another complex ass made up bullshit language 🙄

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PulsarTSAI@reddit

EEK EEK OOKA DOODOO DOODOO DOODOO

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FHFH913@reddit

I slept with your mom 13000 times, now go learn the beauty and complexity of languages

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holaprobando123@reddit

Anon only speaks one of the easiest languages in the world and thinks every other language should be dumbed down to that level.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

The only reason they shouldn't is that people would have to learn a new language. The cases where additional nuance can be expressed via 'advanced grammar' are extremely rare and probably outweighed by English's larger vocabulary.

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MichaelScotsman26@reddit

“Advanced grammar” typically refers to more complex structures and rules within a language that go beyond basic sentence formation. This includes aspects such as subjunctive mood, conditional clauses, perfect tenses, and more intricate uses of conjunctions and prepositions. The nuances imparted by advanced grammar can significantly enhance communication. They allow for greater precision in expressing ideas, subtle distinctions in meaning, and conveyance of various rhetorical devices such as irony, emphasis, or hypothetical scenarios. For instance, mastering the subjunctive mood in English enables speakers to express desires, wishes, or hypothetical situations with clarity and precision. Overall, while basic grammar ensures clarity and coherence in communication, advanced grammar enriches language by enabling speakers to express themselves more precisely and eloquently, capturing subtleties and complexities that enhance both written and spoken discourse. Fuck you.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

No, fuck you. Everything you mentioned can be expressed semantically, with very rudimentary grammar.

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MichaelScotsman26@reddit

The assertion that “everything you mentioned can be expressed semantically, with very rudimentary grammar” overlooks the significant role advanced grammar plays in enhancing communication. While it’s true that basic ideas can be conveyed with simple grammar, the nuances and precision afforded by advanced grammatical structures are indispensable for several reasons. 1. **Precision and Clarity**: Advanced grammar allows for precise and clear expression of ideas. For example, the subjunctive mood in English is crucial for expressing desires, wishes, or hypothetical situations. Without it, sentences can become ambiguous or lose their intended meaning. Consider the difference between “If I was you” and “If I were you”—the latter clearly indicates a hypothetical scenario, whereas the former might be misconstrued as a statement of past reality. 2. **Subtle Distinctions**: Advanced grammar helps in making subtle distinctions that rudimentary grammar cannot. Perfect tenses, for example, indicate not just the occurrence of an action, but its relevance to the present or its completion at a certain time. “I have lived here for five years” versus “I lived here for five years” shows an ongoing situation versus a past, completed one. 3. **Expressing Complex Ideas**: Conditional clauses and advanced conjunctions allow for the expression of complex, layered ideas. “If it rains, we will cancel the picnic” (first conditional) versus “If it had rained, we would have canceled the picnic” (third conditional) highlight different time frames and hypothetical scenarios that simple grammar cannot adequately cover. 4. **Rhetorical Devices**: Advanced grammar is essential for employing rhetorical devices such as irony, emphasis, and parallelism. These devices enrich both written and spoken discourse, making communication more engaging and effective. For instance, using parallel structure in “I came, I saw, I conquered” emphasizes the sequence and impact of actions in a way that rudimentary grammar cannot. While it’s true that English’s larger vocabulary contributes to its expressiveness, vocabulary alone cannot convey the same level of precision and nuance without the support of advanced grammatical structures. Advanced grammar and vocabulary work in tandem to create a rich, expressive language that can capture the subtleties and complexities of human thought and communication. Advanced grammar is awesome. Fuck you.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

All of your examples are in English. You are using examples of supposedly advanced grammar in English in a thread where you criticize English's lack of advanced grammar. What about the following grammatical features, which English doesn't have: Grammatical gender, declension, conjunction, additional (ablative etc.) cases. Those I would classify as 'advanced grammar'; the examples you used might not be present in every single language, but they are present in English and thus do not qualify or make poor examples at the least. Subjunctive mood, perfect, and conditional clauses are not advanced grammar. Your last point includes as an example a very obviously "rudimentary" construction ("I came, I saw, I conquered") followed by the claim that rudimentary grammar cannot achieve this effect. This is actually a good example for my point: In Latin, the phrase is "veni, vidi, vici", which includes advanced grammar in the form of conjugated verb endings mostly missing in English, apart from -*s* and -*ed*. In English, the phrase (apart from the fact that "came" and "saw" are irregular forms) is simplified, and "I" is added to denote the first person. The meaning of the phrase is preserved and no nuance is lost. > While it’s true that English’s larger vocabulary contributes to its expressiveness, vocabulary alone cannot convey the same level of precision and nuance without the support of advanced grammatical structures. Then why don't you provide an example? By the way, it's pretty obvious that your comment is AI-generated.

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MichaelScotsman26@reddit

Your argument overlooks several key aspects of what constitutes advanced grammar and the role it plays in English and other languages. Let me address your points one by one. 1. **Definition of Advanced Grammar**: You mention grammatical features like gender, declension, and additional cases as advanced grammar, but these are specific to certain languages and not universally applicable. Advanced grammar refers to complex structures within a language, and what is advanced can vary between languages. The examples I used, such as the subjunctive mood, perfect tenses, and conditional clauses, are advanced within the context of English because they require a deeper understanding of the language’s rules and nuances. 2. **Subjunctive Mood, Perfect Tenses, and Conditional Clauses**: These are indeed advanced grammatical concepts in English. The subjunctive mood, for instance, is not always straightforward and is used to express hypothetical situations, wishes, or demands, which adds nuance that basic grammar does not provide. Perfect tenses are crucial for indicating actions that have relevance to the present or are completed at specific times, adding layers of meaning that basic past or present tenses cannot convey. 3. **”I Came, I Saw, I Conquered”**: The Latin phrase “veni, vidi, vici” indeed uses conjugated verb endings, which are absent in English. However, this does not diminish the point that the English translation retains rhetorical impact through parallel structure, a technique that can be considered advanced because it enhances the effectiveness of the expression. The presence of conjugated verb endings in Latin does not make the English version less effective or advanced; it highlights how different languages use different advanced features to achieve similar expressive outcomes. 4. **Vocabulary and Grammar Working Together**: You agree that vocabulary alone cannot convey the same level of precision and nuance without advanced grammatical structures. This supports the argument that both elements are crucial for effective communication. Advanced grammar allows for the precise expression of complex ideas, which simple grammar cannot achieve, regardless of the size of the vocabulary. 5. **Examples Beyond English**: While my examples are in English, they demonstrate how advanced grammar functions within the language. In languages with grammatical gender, declension, or additional cases, those features serve similar purposes of adding precision and nuance. The point remains that advanced grammar, in any language, enhances communication by providing tools to express subtle distinctions and complex ideas. 6. **AI-Generated Comment**: Nah I didn’t use AI I typed it all out with my fungers. 7. **Credentials**: Where did you learn all these opinions and facts about advanced grammar? In summary, advanced grammar in English—subjunctive mood, perfect tenses, and conditional clauses—plays a crucial role in adding precision and nuance to communication. Different languages have different advanced features, but the concept of advanced grammar enhancing expressiveness and clarity holds true universally. You are the Soyjak, and I am the Chad.

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CommanderPotash@reddit

??? ai generated answer as an argument?

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MichaelScotsman26@reddit

No I write that

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Mr-Fish0@reddit

English’s larger vocabulary?

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

English has a lot of words. Look it up.

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Mr-Fish0@reddit

Yeah it has some words, (2/3 of which come from Latin and French) but still wayyy less words than most other European languages.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

Do you have a source? English has a lot more words than most European languages; it's not even close. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dictionaries_by_number_of_words

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Mr-Fish0@reddit

As said again, 2/3 of those words come from French and Latin. Also The Oxford English Dictionary estimated the words used in English right now (so excluding all those obsolete words) is around 170k, far below most European languages (look it up). Plus, even just looking at that wikipedia page you provided there’s languages like Italian that, despite having 500k non obsolete words present in dictionaries, actually have well over 2000k sayable and writable words.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

>As said again, 2/3 of those words come from French and Latin. Yes, this is the exact reason English has the most words of any European language. It has been a ligua franca for a long time, so naturally it borrowed many words over the centuries. I don't see how that disqualifies it. >Also The Oxford English Dictionary estimated the words used in English right now (so excluding all those obsolete words) is around 170k, far below most European languages (look it up). They haven't made such estimates for other languages, so this estimate is irrelevant. There many estimates that put the number of English words at 500,000 or even 1,000,000, but I didn't cite those, either. We can only look at words in dictionaries. >Plus, even just looking at that wikipedia page you provided there’s languages like Italian that, despite having 500k non obsolete words present in dictionaries, actually have well over 2000k sayable and writable words. No Italian dictionary actually contains that many words. It is worth mentioning that the largest printed dictionary on that page (Collins, 14th ed.) is in English.

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Benjen0@reddit

I beg your pardon? At which moment English has a larger vocabulary than French?

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Benjen0@reddit

Nvm, they seem to have slightly more. However, after living among them for 2 years, I can confirm they clearly don't use them.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

You're talking about Americans, aren't you?

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Benjen0@reddit

Britbongs mate

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

The vast majority of English words are not in common use by most speakers. Obviously, this is the case in every language (except constructed ones). The amount of words actually used by most people is impossible to estimate and also irrelevant, because this thread is about the language and not the people who speak it.

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holaprobando123@reddit

This is your brain on dumb

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

> more complex = higher potential Language isn't a video game mechanic you fucking troglodyte.

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holaprobando123@reddit

I've seen situations in movies/TV shows where someone is like "my friend/cousin/roommate/boss/etc" and it's not clear whether people are talking about a man or a woman, and that creates confusion down the line. That's not something that could happen in Spanish. If it's a friend, it's either "amigo" or "amiga". If it's a cousin, it's "primo" or "prima". If it's a boss, it's "jefe" or "jefa". I mean, if these stories are translated, sometimes they have to go to great lengths to try to translate the situation for it to make sense in a language where it's possible to specify the gender of the person you're talking about. So yeah, higher potential. Being able to be more specific is good.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

You are talking about actual gender rather than grammatical gender (e.g. *actor*/*actress*). Grammatical gender extends to inanimate objects, where it has no practical purpose at all. In your specific examples, the words "male" and "female" would do the job. Think on this: If knowing the gender of a person is so important, why isn't knowing the age, occupation, etc.? There are specific words for these in many cases, but there doesn't exist a grammatical way to express someone's age in any language I know. Most importantly, the gender of the person in question is almost always either unimportant or obvious from context.

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ttwixx@reddit

I don’t think that’s true, nuance is extremely important in conversations that go beyond being small talk.

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whydoyouevenreadthis@reddit

Yes, and my point is that more complex grammar does virtually nothing for actual nuance in the meaning.

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Glittering_Fig_762@reddit

Which is why they added “outweighed by English’s larger vocabulary.”

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KnightBoulegard@reddit

ENGLISH LANGUAGE FUCK YEAH HOO-RAH 🇬🇧🇬🇧🇬🇧

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Flogger_of_Dolphins@reddit

>ENGLISH LANGUAGE FUCK YEAH HOO-RAH 🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸 Ftfy

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KnightBoulegard@reddit

![gif](giphy|qzFSQHREZEqdTtDyEm|downsized)

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bocaj78@reddit

> ENGLISH LANGUAGE FUCK YEAH HOO-RAH 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺 Ftfy

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The_Third_Molar@reddit

> ENGLISH LANGUAGE FUCK YEAH HOO-RAH ya cunt 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺 Ftfy

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iLinkedSPC@reddit

> 🇦🇺🇦🇺🇦🇺 ʇunɔ ɐʎ H∀ɹ-OOH H∀Ǝ⅄ ʞƆ∩Ⅎ Ǝפ∀∩פN∀˥ HSI˥פNƎ Ftfy

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Waswat@reddit

I hate french but man, having thousands synonyms for the same shit in English isn't great either. Even if you'd argue there are ~~tiny~~ ~~miniscule~~ ~~minute~~ ~~infintesmal~~ ~~diminutive~~ very small differences, you can probably do with about 80% less of them in your language.

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Taaargus@reddit

English is a notoriously difficult language what are you on about.

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danton_groku@reddit

It's really not lol are you a native english speaker by any chance. English is the easiest indo-european language to learn and by a lot

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Taaargus@reddit

I don't know how you can say this with a straight face when like every Romance language has a lot more in common with each other than they do with English. If you speak Spanish of course Italian will be easier. Probably French too. Portuguese, and all the regional offshoots of Spanish like Catalan etc as well are obviously easier. And then on the Germanic side German and Dutch and the other low country languages again have a lot more in common with each other than they do with English. Likely the reason you're saying this has a lot more to do with the prevalence of high quality English teaching mechanisms and the fact that basically all schools teach it than how difficult it is inherently.

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evermuzik@reddit

literally everyone agrees with you besides plebbit

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zephimir@reddit

No they don't

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Poolturtle5772@reddit

Any non-native speaker I’ve met said they hated learning English and it’s a shit to learn and if it wasn’t necessary they wouldn’t have done it.

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zephimir@reddit

Doesn't mean that it's hard

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Poolturtle5772@reddit

Harder than previous languages.

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zephimir@reddit

It's really not.

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Poolturtle5772@reddit

They would disagree. Though maybe it’s a Romance language thing, since most I’ve spoken to start with one of those.

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StandardN02b@reddit

Real coping hours.

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danton_groku@reddit

Sounds like the native anglo is coping with the reality that english is a piss easy language lol. No conjugation, no genders, no word endings based on grammatical cases, half of the vocabulary latin the other half germanic. It's literally the easiest language you'll find in europe

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Taaargus@reddit

Other than no genders literally everything you said is wrong but ok.

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danton_groku@reddit

You'll find out the difference between everything I listed and languages that actually have them when you try to learn literally any other language lol. No conjugation: all you have to learn is write/wrote/written. For most of speakers in europe conjugation means learning like a 100 verb endings that change by verb groups. Easy to compare which is the easiest. Half of english vocabulary comes from latin either directly or through french. And also just look at an actually complicated germanic language (unlike english) to see what I mean for the grammar cases. You're just a yank

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ShitImBadAtThis@reddit

Verbs are conjugated in English all the time to convey different meanings. For instance, the verb break can be conjugated to form the words break, breaks, broke, broken and breaking. Learning English is just as hard as any other language (depending on your native language of course), but what English has working for them is 2 things: 1. Everyone young enough in most of the world is taking it in school 2. Internet is forcing to learn English. I met my cousin’s girlfriend who is soo shy to talk English. When I asked how is her English she said “bad.”

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Last_shadows_@reddit

Just to show you how impressively easy the conjugation of English is I will list all French conjugation forms that are equivalent to the ones you listed for " break" Break : casser, casse, casses, cassons, cassez, cassent Breaks: casse ( no it is not the same one as before) Broke : a cassé, ai cassé, as cassé, avons cassé, avez cassé, ont cassé, s'est cassé, se sont cassé, me suis cassé, t'es cassé, êtes cassé. This is without declining the past tense according to what can be broken mind you, other wise it can be conjugated with variants of feminine and plural suffixs Broken : cassé Breaking : cassant, cassante, cassants, cassantes, cassai, cassais, cassait, cassions, cassiez, cassiaient. ( ok here some are the equivalent of was breaking and were breaking but otherwise it was weird) Like dude hahaha not even close to being the same complexity.

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ShitImBadAtThis@reddit

I'm not saying it is, I was just refuting the "no conjugations" thing, of course other languages have more conjugations

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holaprobando123@reddit

> For instance, the verb break can be conjugated to form the words break, breaks, broke, broken and breaking Let me show you a comparison. In the present tense, in English you have: I/you/we/they break He/she/it breaks And that's it. In Spanish: Yo rompo Tu rompes/vos rompés/usted rompe Él/ella/eso rompe Nosotros rompemos Ustedes rompen/vosotros rompéis Ellos rompen Seven forms of the verb to two. And that's just one verb tense.

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ShitImBadAtThis@reddit

I know the comparison; I speak Spanish

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pode83@reddit

>Verbs are conjugated in English all the time to convey different meanings. >For instance, the verb break can be conjugated to form the words break, breaks, broke, broken and breaking. Get back to me when english needs basically an entire second dictionary to conjugate verbs. The conjugation in English is incredibly easy and simplified compared to french or spanish

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futurettt@reddit

I wonder if pedants made similar arguments about french when it was the lingua franca. Such a subjective and stupid argument to make.

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Mouiadhofse@reddit

Schools suck at teaching English, or languages in general

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holyleek@reddit

The difficulty of a language Is based on the complexity of Its rules, not how much It Is similar to other languages you know. It's kind of like saying a car Is a simpler mechanism than a toaster just because some people are mechanics. English has no gender or Number conjugation, no casus (don't know how you call german of latin casus in english), fewer verbal times and fewer irregular pronunciations. It's a no brainer if you studied at least One other language, really.

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Alokir@reddit

No, really. English is very easy once you learn its wacky writing/pronunciation system. And I'm saying it as someone whose native language isn't even indo-european. What you're talking about is how easy some languages are *to learn*, depending on your native tongue. For example, Czech isn't easy just because Slovak is closely related. It's easy for a Slovak native, but it doesn't affect Korean or Arabic speakers. English has no genders, only a few verb tenses, very easy noun cases, simple pluralization, relatively few irregularities, etc.

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Kelainefes@reddit

I'm Italian and I studied ancient Latin to the point of translating almost without using the vocabulary. French and Spanish are much more difficult to learn than English for me.

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CyberBed@reddit

I dunno, as Russian English is second easiest language after German. Probably because in soviet union and 90s German language was taught in schools, and now it's English. Personally I think that English is so easy because of very strict rules for making sentences, low amount of rules in general and it's pretty easy to pronounce. Only thing that I find weird is how words sometimes don't match their pronunciation or sound very similar like bed/bad. Only thing that was hard for me to learn were times. In Russian we have past, present, future. In English you have continuous, perfect and perfect continuous versions of said times.

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Niswear85@reddit

English is the easiest European language, what is blud going on about

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holaprobando123@reddit

Lots of people coping hard here

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Niswear85@reddit

Anglocucks shit on other languages, then go all pussy when they can't handle retaliative fire

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__cum_guzzler__@reddit

English is my 3rd language, which they made me learn in school and I'm easily C1. Easy as fuck bro

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-Eerzef@reddit

Lol Lmao, even

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Mr_Pink_Gold@reddit

No... It is not. English is one of the easiest languages. English grammar is like the intro chapter on a book on latin languages grammar. And don't start into Polish with their 8 million declinations. English is simple.

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CerebralMessiah@reddit

If you were to learn English from scratch and have 0 prior experiance it would probably be one the harder ones,as it has some simple rules(no geneders or cases),but also some stupid rules(inconsistent spelling and too many conjugations with 0 rules)

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ethan_iron@reddit

is english really one of the easiest languages in the world? i've been told it's one of the most difficult.

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Zeke-Freek@reddit

The main reason is because every "rule" of English has a shitload of exception cases and it can be difficult to learn all of them naturally if you're trying to learn it as a second language as an adult. The basics aren't that bad, but the sheer quantity of exceptions to rules makes it feel like the language is trolling you for trying to learn it. Language in general is harder to learn the older you are, but English specifically feels like it has a shitload of traps to fuck you up. That's where the reputation comes from.

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Idaret@reddit

Every natural language has rules with exceptions, dumbass

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2OptionsIsNotChoice@reddit

Using Italian/German/similar as a baseline. Learning English, French, or Spanish isn't that hard. For "professional purposes" you are looking at around 600 hours of practice. This basically doubles once you jump to a comparable language that uses its own alphabet. Hebrew, Russian, Lao, whatever. Then you have the truly hard languages like Arabic, Japanese, and similar. These languages not only have their own alphabet but they have complex language rules which are very context dependent, they often involve different methods of speaking where inflection/tones matter its not just saying the word its saying the word the right way in the right context. These are generally estimated to take over 2000 hours of practice for "business purposes". We are in a realm of you being an English speaker being able to become "business fluent" in French, Spanish, and Russian in the same time frame it would take you to obtain the same degree of fluency in Arabic or Japanese. If people want to nitpick about English being harder or easier than Spanish its really not that measurably different so long as you devote yourself to it and practice. Its more so just personal biases from what they are used to that influences it more than the language itself.

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holaprobando123@reddit

It's easy as shit.

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ethan_iron@reddit

Why do people say it's so hard to learn then? Are they just stupid?

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Sbotkin@reddit

>Why do people say it's so hard to learn then? Those people probably only know English.

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holaprobando123@reddit

And they're the kind of people that write "alot" and "would of", and say something is "bias" or "melancholy".

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holaprobando123@reddit

Probably, yeah. And most people who claim it's so fucking difficult are native speakers to begin with.

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pipachu99@reddit

English is not an easy language tho

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Blamore@reddit

english is indeed one of the easiest languages. lack of genders and conjugation make it easier than every other european language. the most confusing aspect of english is the unpredictable pronunciation, but it is still so muvh easier. than mosy other languages.

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Rexly200@reddit

Hello us swedetards have an almost equally simple language. Don’t forget us

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Sbotkin@reddit

It's a very easy language. The only issues are the articles and the fucked up pronounciation.

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seemjeem22@reddit

And yet people still misspell and mispronounce everything despite having raised in a largely English-speaking environment. Have a gander at any comment section on YouTube or Facebook and wonder.

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Flogger_of_Dolphins@reddit

English has the easiest and most intuitive grammar system of all the europoor languages and it's not even close. Cuz there aren't any pointless conjugations to learn. But the spelling is pretty regarded.

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expendablue@reddit

This is just false... English syntax is wickedly complex. What tends to make a person's language feel intuitive is the unconscious knowledge that comes with it being your native language; and for any second language it tends to be how it compares to your native language as a reference point. Source: was a linguistics major.

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Cobek@reddit

All languages does not equal just the US and Europe though. Go check out Korean writing system, it was made 600 years ago, it's one of the newest and was made to be easy to understand/memorize.

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Flogger_of_Dolphins@reddit

Yeah but they don't matter cuz they read backwards.

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TakeASeatChancellor@reddit

Me when I spread misinformation

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Blamore@reddit

korean writing system may be better, however the LANGUAGE is actually extremely difficult.

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NotQuantified@reddit

Yeah, the writing system is simple, but the grammar is stupid. Also, Korean does not have a phonology as diverse as English, so a bunch of words end up sounding very similar to each other. This combined with the fact that words have very specific definitions makes Korean a needlessly confusing language. Source: I'm Korean

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CaseClosedEmail@reddit

And it has no genre for nouns

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Mr-Fish0@reddit

Yeah! it’s gets rid of all those useless europoor things such as the ability to express coherent thoughts and to narrate complex situations

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Flogger_of_Dolphins@reddit

>be Spanish >have a conjugation for imperative tense when you're telling someone to do something >Have a completely different conjugation for imperative tense when you're telling someone *not* to do something >you still have to say "no" though to make it abundantly clear the order is in the negative >Be Mr Fishfucker >wow this rule makes it so much more complex and coherent than English and isn't redundant and completely pointless at all!

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ResponsibleStep8725@reddit

This is the biggest bullshit I've ever read.

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holaprobando123@reddit

It is.

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No_Economics_2677@reddit

You'd think so, but then you'd see that it's harder than you think and if you try to write it right your brain won't comprehend the way that you're not understanding. There are just too many different meanings to words and if they're not familiar with the language it's always easier to speak their language.

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holaprobando123@reddit

> but then you'd see that it's harder than you think and if you try to write it right your brain won't comprehend the way that you're not understanding I guess I just do magic, then. I mean, seeing as I'm not a native speaker and all that.

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mehemynx@reddit

That's entirely anecdotal though. Depending on what your native language was it can be insanely hard.

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holaprobando123@reddit

So... exactly the same as any other language, except on average it's easier than most?

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Cobek@reddit

English language has more words than most by A LOT.

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holaprobando123@reddit

xd

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mehemynx@reddit

The same as any language yeah, if your native language is similar enough it's easier, if it's not, it's harder.

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Various-Positive4799@reddit

It's the most most spoken but thats just because of colonization it depends on your first language though as people always say

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awolkriblo@reddit

Is the take here that harder languages = better?

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holaprobando123@reddit

Not what I said. And better ask all the fragile English speakers that replied to me.

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awolkriblo@reddit

No, I'd rather call you a stupidhead. Stupidhead!

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Playful_Pollution846@reddit

English is considered the hardest to learn as a secondary language if you have to learn it at an older age than a younger age

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holaprobando123@reddit

*Source: my ass*

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Playful_Pollution846@reddit

Nuh uh, my ass can't speak it's actually my mouth which is connected to the brain you simpleton🤓

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Whatever4M@reddit

English isn't my first language. Who cares if it's easy? A language being harder to learn doesn't make it better.

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holaprobando123@reddit

> English isn't my first language Who asked you? Are you anon?

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Whatever4M@reddit

Are you on the spectrum by any chance?

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Tonythesaucemonkey@reddit

The only person who would say English is easy is a person who can only speak English.

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holaprobando123@reddit

English is my second language, you idiot.

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Tonythesaucemonkey@reddit

What’s your first?

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holaprobando123@reddit

Spanish. As evidenced by my username.

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Tonythesaucemonkey@reddit

Lmaooo

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Ascertain_GME@reddit

Spanish is stupid easy to learn lmfao

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holaprobando123@reddit

So? We're talking about English here. Are you so fragile?

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Ascertain_GME@reddit

I’m saying you have no benchmark for what’s hard because Spanish is easy as fuck to speak. English is objectively hard with the myriad of arbitrary rules and exceptions, but you want to act smart because you probably grew up in a multilingual area. Go learn Mandarin or something you cuck

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holaprobando123@reddit

> but you want to act smart even though you probably grew up in a bilingual area or household Not even close, buddy. Keep the copium going.

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FblthpThe@reddit

Spanish and English are pretty much the same difficulty

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holaprobando123@reddit

So?

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bigbadbillyd@reddit

Out of curiosity what is your native language?

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holaprobando123@reddit

Spanish.

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amazingboat_075@reddit

bro speaks one of the most similar languages to English and then claims it’s “easy as shit” 💀

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Last_shadows_@reddit

I speak French ( native) and German. Also took some beginner Dutch and Spanish. English is waaaaay easier.

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LemonFlavoredMelon@reddit

Why do inanimate objects need to be gendered?

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Gousse22@reddit

they are not gendered, the word that is attributed to them has a grammatical gender, which is not a biological gender.

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LemonFlavoredMelon@reddit

But why?

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Gousse22@reddit

Why are nouns singular or plural ? why are they Proper or common ? It's just a characteristic among many others, it helps in identifying one noun among many other in a sentence for example, but really just google it, bc if you don't speak a gendered language it's really hard to explain why the sentences flow better and sound better with it.

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DasBrewinator@reddit

Because it flows better. Its just the way it is

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Evil_Commie@reddit

Why do animate objects need to be gendered?

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LemonFlavoredMelon@reddit

Not my point

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ThisSongsCopyrighted@reddit

when german and latin merge.

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BreadLoafBrad@reddit

The counting is just base 20, which has been used historically in America too: “four score and 7 years ago”, where scores are 20 years. Now what caused them to use that I don’t fuckin know

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firewire_9000@reddit

As a native Catalan speaker, I feel you my brother.

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xXvido_@reddit

In 🇸🇮 we have 3 genders for words, depending if the word in singular 1st person is pronounced (tista/tisti/tisto) [word] So you dont need to ‘just know’ all the words genders

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arina-melashkova@reddit

slovenia mentioned 🇸🇮🇸🇮🇸🇮💯💯💯💪

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Evis_Ceration@reddit

I genuinely only know Slovenia exists because a few semi prolific league of legends players popped out if it, and have never seen the country mentioned in any other context.

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ElPwnero@reddit

In Russian there’s also the relatively rare common gender next to masculine, feminine and neuter.

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AzzyDoesStuff@reddit

anon would crumble if he had to learn literally any other language. french is one of the easy ones. go learn spanish's 300 verb conjugations. go learn finnish. stupid idiot

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

Well to be fair French has more verb times than Spanish. Anon said 10 in the post there but French actually has 21, while Spanish has 16. No argument for Finnish though, that language is jnsane

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AzzyDoesStuff@reddit

https://preview.redd.it/8c1cm0ijwgcd1.png?width=2048&format=png&auto=webp&s=37ba8cc446d785a4c693710848e604c60db12ce3 this, but triple (due to -ar, -er, -ir)

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psichodrome@reddit

r/AskHistorians

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Bear2501@reddit

For a moment there I thought he was talking about German.

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Fun_Network312@reddit

Wow, as a french major I'm tempted to answer this properly but I feel like it'd be lost in the wind completely. Yes, there is absolutely a justification for gendered words (ease of phrasing in general) and Conjugation is not 10, but if I recall, 19 versions. The numbers are absolutely silly but the Belgians solved that with their own french like for 95 : OG : Four twenty fifteen Belgian : Ninetite five Let's have fun : 1997 OG : Thousand nine hundred four twenty ten seven...

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Trekeln@reddit

For 1997, you can also say "ten nine hundred four twenty ten seven"

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

*21 verb times actually

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Fun_Network312@reddit

verb times, I didn't even know that was english

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fkn_embarassing@reddit

Attends, ta tante tentent tends ton temps tant, t'en a autant de taon dans ta tente.

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Trekeln@reddit

Mais si ton tonton tond ton tonton, ton tonton sera tondu

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iownmultiplepencils@reddit

> atan ta tant tant tan ton tan tan, tan a otan de tan dan ta tant Simplified pronounciation. Pronounce "de" like "duh".

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pilotguy772@reddit

no, don't pronounce "de" like "duh," pronounce it like... wait a minute.. does English even have the right sound for the e in "le" or "de"?

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iownmultiplepencils@reddit

At first I was considering about some variant of "the", but thought this would make things too complicated.

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Trekeln@reddit

To Anon: Je t'encule. Petite bite.

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Zesty-Lem0n@reddit

pretty sure spanish has at least 7 verb tenses / conjugations as well. I know nothing about french, but I would imagine that you have to pay a lot more attention to grammatical rules when you learn a new language so anon takes for granted how many different conjugations exist in english that he perfectly understands subconsciously. Also conjugations seem pretty universal, like it would be odder if a language didn't have a way of distinguishing between past perfect and imperfect tense for example.

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Work4Bots@reddit

Clearly Belgian or Canadian anon

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

I doubt he's Belgian because if he was, he'd probably have learned 90 as "nonante" and not "quatre-vingt dix"

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No-Bowl3290@reddit

The French are still mad that the only people in the New World that speak their language are black people, so they created a fossilized language that's only used in academia or upper class social circles, cause they don't want the commoners to speak "real French". French will one day go the way of Latin

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

I was going to argue the case of the Canadian ones but they never accepted to recognize any of the Canadian/American French dialects as real either so you're totally right

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EntersEvasion@reddit

Can't believe English speakers would complain about French phonetics. If you hear a word for the first time in English or French, you don't immediately know how to write it (unlike Spanish). However, French is phonetically consistent and doesn't have stress, so you can always know a word's pronunciation if you read it for the first time. The rule for that pronunciation may seem odd to an English speaker (it is another language after all), but that is impossible to do in English, where pronunciation is arbitrary and sometimes has to be deduced from context: read/read, lead/lead, record/record of the top of my head, as well as the classic annoying variations: though/trough/through/throughout/thought/tough/thorough...

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Old_Ad_71@reddit

You nailed the number one complaint I have with English as a native speaker. The lead/lead and others is so frustrating that unless you're given context around the word, it is impossible to tell which one it is. Every word should have unique spelling so it can stand in its own.

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KatsumotoKurier@reddit

I absolutely loathe how the past tense of read is read. Meanwhile lead becomes led. The inconsistency of this is nutty beyond belief, and only the latter makes sense in regards to phonetical pronunciation. I also have grown to hate our lack of a plural you. In Swedish, for example, they say ‘ni’ for a plural you, whereas we’re saddled with saying “you guys” or “you all” or whatever else.

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HarpoonShootingAxo@reddit

Most languages have a plural you actually, including French "vous". To me it's weird that English never evolved to include one

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Old_Ad_71@reddit

Oh my God yes, the lack of a second person plural drove me nuts. Once I moved to the southern United States, I adopted "y'all" instantly. Even though it's just a contraction and not a word, it basically solves the problem. I hate how you can't use y'all in the north without being looked at strangely like you're some dumb southern hick. I'm keeping y'all and I'm not giving it back

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pilotguy772@reddit

erm ackshually! lead is the present tense form of the verb "to lead," but the simple past and the past participle forms are spelled like "led," not "lead." Basically "lead" is only ever pronounced one way afaik.

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SpooderCow12@reddit

The metal "lead" (Pb) is not pronounced the same as the verb.

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Cactus-Pete-@reddit

I'm not saying English is any better, but with how many silent letters are in French as well I'd hardly call it phonetically consistant and stress free. Just try watching english speakers or Germanic language speakers in general try to pronounce french wine names they've never heard of lol.

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EntersEvasion@reddit

Stress doesn't have to do with silent letters but "tonic" syllables. French does not have stress, whereas languages such as English, Spanish, Catalan and many others do. It can change the meaning of a word ("hablo", I speak vs. "habló", he spoke); this does not exist in French.

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Cactus-Pete-@reddit

Ahh my bad I misinterpreted the use of "stress" here.

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flaco_lombradi@reddit

100% agree, once you learn the (admittedly confusing for an English speaker) pronunciation rules, you can pronounce any French word that you read, because the pronunciation is consistent

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Ghostiestboi@reddit

Ah yes, the tongue of the pigs

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ButWhatIfItQueffed@reddit

>How did such dumbfuckery evolve naturally ? Because it's France. The French copy nobody, and nobody copies the French.

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DasBrewinator@reddit

The best way to remember what gender the word is is to remember it as "the (object)" instead of just "object" For example, the French word for "sun" is "Soleil," but you should remember it as "le Soleil" (masculin). A car is "voiture" but you should remember it as "la voiture" (féminin)

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FireDevil11@reddit

A lot of languages have gendered words, and all have rules. For ex. if it ends with "a" it's a female gendered word. I We You You He/She/It They

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achilleshy@reddit

Yesterday I went on a boat ride in St.Malo, France, the ticket costs 24.80, I think they made it so, just to say “Vingt quatre quatre vingt”

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cantaloupelion@reddit

>Vingt quatre quatre vingt dude weed lmao wait no

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rainbow__blood@reddit

Saint basé

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KingsGuardTR@reddit

My mother tongue is not English, and I agree with many of the comments here that make fair points and disagree with what the OOP has said. However, no matter how I try to approach to it, I simply cannot make any sense of gendered nouns in any language at all. ELI5, what is the purpose?

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NanashiTheWarlock@reddit

Oh, so the English speaker wants to bitch about phonetics?

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Archmagos_Browning@reddit

I took 3 years of French in high school and dear god I hated it.

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FHFH913@reddit

All of these "rules" were created by people much smarter than you anon, for reasons your small brain can't even comprehend

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JimmyBowen37@reddit

Not really, language rules are created by social convention, every single person is involved and it takes generations. They were created both by people way smarter and way dumber than anon, and they took a very long time. Languages are always incomprehensibly complicated until you look at their evolutions, go back through middle and old french, then vulgar latin and latin, and youll see how each level change is really pretty minor. For the most part, each change simplified the system and makes it easier. Ex. Conjugations used to be way harder in latin, and the counting system, which seems stupid at first is really the same way we count in a different font so to speak. When we say 95, you are saying 9 groups of 10, plus 5. When they say 95, they count it as 4 groups of 20, plus 15, because theyre using a base 20 system rather than a base 10 one. Which English also used to do! “4 score and 7 years ago” score = 20. Sorry for the rambling i study this shit

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bworkin@reddit

It's been controlled largely by the Académie Française for almost 400 years, not social convention.

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Touone69@reddit

Nah, people speaking the langage make the langage change. The academy isnt supposed to tell you how to speak, but to report the way people speak, how the langage change and analyse it. Nobody ever made an entire population forget a word or a way of speaking. This is social convention

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hh3k0@reddit

> [...] and the counting system, which seems stupid at first is really the same way we count in a different font so to speak. When we say 95, you are saying 9 groups of 10, plus 5. When they say 95, they count it as 4 groups of 20, plus 15, because they're using a base 20 system rather than a base 10 one. But then I remember that we have 10 fingers and using a base 20 system seems stupid again.

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JimmyBowen37@reddit

There’s other ways to count than just 10 fingers! The ancient babylonians counted each knuckle (no thumb bc they used the thumb to count) to get a base 12 system on one hand alone. Which is why we have 60 sec in a min, and 60 min in an hour, 24 hours in a day, and 12 months in the year, all based off the Babylonian base 12 system. No system is inherently better than the other, they all express the same ideas in different ways. Arabic numerals are way better than most other historical numeral systems though that’s for sure

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echief@reddit

Base 12 is inherently better because it can be split into halves, thirds, and quarters, and sixths as whole numbers. There is no real argument you can make for base 20 being better than base 10 except for the fact quarters are whole numbers. But being able to easily count using fingers is a way better trade off in my opinion.

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lightsideluc@reddit

Ten fingers and ten toes. You have my condolences for the loss of your feet.

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hh3k0@reddit

I don't count on my toes, though. Do the French?

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Benjen0@reddit

We also use the nose sometimes, to make it to 21.

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Sophia_Steinberger@reddit

🤓

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nhexum@reddit

One of the most famous USA speeches of all time uses a base 20 system to recall our foundation. "Four Score and Seven years ago...". Anon is an idiot

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duckfucker99@reddit

That was actually interesting

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Sock-less_@reddit

So your admitting you also have a small brain

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aVarangian@reddit

and yet he'd have written "you're" correctly

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CaptainChiral@reddit

Not necessarily, while a small brain may cause someone someone to not understand the reason, the could be additional causes. You are affirming the consequent. (If A causes B, then B must always be caused by A) Also, you're*

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Horse_Pickle1@reddit

yr'oue*

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avagrantthought@reddit

That’s the joke

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Kelainefes@reddit

At least he's got enough brain cells to be aware of his brain size.

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MR_DERP_YT@reddit

Agreed with anon here

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RevalMaxwell@reddit

English: 80 potatoes French: 4 20’s apples of the earth

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TuckingFypoz@reddit

I honestly had to Google what potatoes were in French. I thought you weren't honestly kidding.

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rainbow__blood@reddit

Mdr jpp

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Referat-@reddit

Right, de not du

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Beamo1080@reddit

Is that really how they say numbers in french?

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pilotguy772@reddit

Sure is! I'm learning French and saying numbers between seventy and one hundred is a struggle 70 = soixante-dix = sixty-ten 80 = quatre vingt = four twenty 90 = quatre vingt dix = four twenty ten

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ZAL_x@reddit

Actually : 95 is spelled 4x20+15 (four twenty fifteen) not 20x4+5

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M4xW3113@reddit

Only for 70, 80 and 90 numbers family. An alternative exists (that just follows the "normal" logic for these families) but it's only used in Belgium, maybe Switzerland. With this alternative way, "95" would be "nonante cinq" which is like "ninety five".

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TheRadishBros@reddit

Yes

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boiledviolins@reddit

Anglos when a language has grammar:

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pilotguy772@reddit

the grammar errors that English speakers (especially native English speakers) tend to make are so infuriating. "me and John go to work" "he spoke to you and I" "the best thing about cheese, is it's flavor" "I want, to go to, Starbucks for, breakfast." "were going to steal they're money" "I have 20 dollar's" and so much more... UGGHHH it's so annoying

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Doo_D@reddit

Stupid language by stupid people

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keen36@reddit

As a german, this post made me rethink a lot of things... He could have gone for quatre vingt dix neuf 4*20 10 9 which is even more insane I think

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Send_Cake_Or_Nudes@reddit

Anon pretends that language evolved by committee, rather than being monkeys in hats yelling and / or killing eachother.

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feckshite@reddit

French really does suck ass for the reason in bullet two— they hardly ever pronounce half of the word. About a dozen words can sound exactly the same.

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IrinaNekotari@reddit

Saying that as if read, read and read didn't mean 3 different things while being pronounced differently

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feckshite@reddit

They all mean literally the same thing but different participles

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awolkriblo@reddit

"Le ver vert va vers le verre vert" - French people, probably "LOL ENGLISH IS SO STUPID HAHA THEIR THEY'RE THERE" also French people, maybe

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Soccolo@reddit

This can work out well for non-natives though. Often when I speak French I use the wrong word, but, because many words are pronounced the same way, it sounds correct.

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feckshite@reddit

But then nothing makes sense when you hear someone talk

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downvotedforwoman@reddit

But the person speaking is French so I wouldn't want to listen anyway.

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TruthOrBullshite@reddit

Fr*nch

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FourKrusties@reddit

france is another language that needs language reform. those letters were all pronounced in the 15th century when the words were first laid down in print. 6 centuries later they are still written (almost) the exact same way even though pronunciation has changed drastically. It's the same with English. When's the last time you pronounced the h in "When" or the k in "knight"? or the gh in "knight"?

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qlebenp@reddit

To me it's the easiest.

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Diche_Bach@reddit

[Le plume de ma tante! Haaaggchh!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEGyRGvEWB0)

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ferdo69@reddit

Incest king did his deed

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PrivilegeCheckmate@reddit

Once the gender thing happens, whether in language or society, it quickly spirals out of control.

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VirtualPantsu@reddit

Try learning polish, it's my 1st language and even i struggle with some rarely used words

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Zek0ri@reddit

No co ty byczku. Jedyne z czym można mieć problem w naszym języku, to moim zdaniem zastosowanie właściwego: „h” i „ch”, „rz” i „ż”, oraz „u” i „ó”.

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VirtualPantsu@reddit

Z tego co zauważyłem ludzie uczący się polskiego maja najwiekszy problem właśnie z odmiana. Ortografia ma dość jasne zasady, poza wyjątkami.

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FilHor2001@reddit

Native English speakers have no fucking clue how simple their language really is. At least compared to Czech, German and Italian.

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ConscientiousPath@reddit

You think that's bad, just wait until you see the crap their philosophers have come up with.

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FemboyZoriox@reddit

Anon forgot every language but his has gendered words. (Anon is restarted)

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YaBoiCori@reddit

Wrong, it's not Twenty Four Fifteen (Vingt Quatre Quinze) but Four Twenty Fifteen (Quatre-Vingt Quinze) so Four-Twenty (🤪) Fifteen actually 🤓☝️

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Emprasy@reddit

As a french, yes, it is hard and still hard sometime.

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megadriive@reddit

that last point is getting times'd to a high degree when you enter slavic territory (i'm learning polish and i stg every noun being like "no no no it's supposed to change from „głorina” to „głoniszkówka” due to this verb being this way" fucking hurts lowkey)

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Midnite_St0rm@reddit

Wait until you hear how many arbitrary rules English has

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Kelewann@reddit

97 to 99 are even better, it's 4x20+10+7 to 9

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notorioustim10@reddit

Kater Van Deez Weed

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Idiot_of_Babel@reddit

It could only have occured naturally because there is no way anyone saw this and was like "yup, make half that word silent"

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_gunther1n0_@reddit

Anon is talking about a lot of european languages

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Gladianoxa@reddit

It blows my mind the French came up with the metric system to have units in base 10, really simple and easy to use unit scaling. But their own language is in base 20. Imbeciles.

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XanII@reddit

Finland has entered the chat

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sebastianinspace@reddit

wait until anon discovers german

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Impressive_Ant405@reddit

I really like the French language, there's a lot of subtle things about it and it has also heavily influenced a ton of culture and languages (some maybe through less than ideals situations I'm aware of it). But I'm so glad I'm a native french speaker because I don't think I could learn to speak it fluently. It is hard

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Turbulent-Willow2156@reddit

At least it’s phonetically consistent

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No_Percentage6070@reddit

Why do inanimate things have genders, can someone explain to me?

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heehoohorseshoe@reddit

Inanimate objects do not have genders, the words for them have grammatical gender so the spoken language flows better

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No_Percentage6070@reddit

Thanks, can you provide any examples of it flowing better? I don’t speak a language which is gendered

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heehoohorseshoe@reddit

I'm not sure how to answer your question tbh, i can just say it feels clunky and weird to use the wrong grammatical gender, the phonetics just don't work. You'd be better off asking in r/french than here

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Gurkenpudding13@reddit

In German there are strong or weak nouns. Some nouns tend to shift from strong to weak. Therefore their gender changes from male to female. For example you have the weak nouns "Der Löwe" (Lion. Singular, Maskulinum) and in plural "Die LöweN". The N marks the plural and their gender shifts to female. The counterpart would be "Der Schneck" (Snail, singular, male). This strong noun changes to weak therefore it's "die Schnecke"). It's an process of language evolution and use of the language. English never made this step to gender objects because it early differentiated from Germanic (like 500-700 C.E.).

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Totally_Normal_Bee@reddit

I guess because we as humans like to add human traits to other animals and objects, and some languages manifeested that more than others

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StreetRing6694@reddit

Because if you fucked a male table you'd be gay, obviously. I only fuck female tables, because I'm a real man

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FHFH913@reddit

So we can draw hentai of it and know what gay or not

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Figoos@reddit

Talking as english vowel pronunciation wasn't complete bullshit

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Various-Positive4799@reddit

Colonization is the only thing that makes English the most spoken in some regions it's understandable

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Figoos@reddit

Anon after minor inconvenience

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MiniGui98@reddit

Anon est trop limité intellectuellement pour apprendre une vraie langue.

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jglafamille@reddit

My mum is dutch and has been living in France for about 30 years. She still has troubles to gender words.

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Natakito@reddit

I'm french and he's kind of right haha

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rancidfart86@reddit

Anglos seething

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lagrandesgracia@reddit

At least in french you can tell how a word is written by hearing it (mostly), unlike english that you have to memorize it. Ever thought about why spelling bees are only a thing in english?

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IraqiWalker@reddit

Ngl. At first, I thought he was talking about Arabic. Until the unphoenetic and numbers bits.

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Torikow@reddit

It's a nice way to gatekeep the language from fore*gners 🤢

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_Volatile_@reddit

There is not a single naturally evolved language that makes sense.

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Sirmiglouche@reddit

The angloid's brain cannot comprehend such beauty

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DonCroissant92@reddit

*laughs in german*

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DissociativeRuin@reddit

She's a chair And I don't even care Gonna love her here or love her there Ya ya ya

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GoldenRaysWanderer@reddit

*Laughs in Chinese*

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danton_groku@reddit

Tldr: an average american monolingual who's never attempted to learn another languages discovers other languages are not the same as english

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Freds1765@reddit

French rules of phonetics are so good that the spelling almost always uniquely identifies the pronunciation. Compare that with English where you have words like {though, tough, through, ought, bough} where you have no way of knowing other than experience and practice.

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M4xW3113@reddit

Words gender aren't arbitrary, it depends on how the word ends.

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AmGeiii@reddit

In the language anon is talking about there are plenty of exceptions and in other languages with gendered words there isn’t always a sound at the end that signifies what gender (Swedish is a great example with our “den/det” and “en/ett”, with nothing in the word that comes after giving a clue)

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M4xW3113@reddit

I'm talking about French, there are a few exceptions, doesn't remove the fact you can know the gender of a word 99% of the time just by looking at how it ends

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Kika-kun@reddit

You can take a guess but usually for nouns it's not particularly obvious Une table / un cartable Un être / une fenêtre La mort / le port Most nouns that don't really have a feminine or masculine suffix can't be guessed easily by non native. You can even have some words that have different meanings as feminine or masculine (son boule / sa boule, although you can argue son boule is slang, but I'm sure you can find other examples), and some both feminine and masculine are accepted (un/une après midi)

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AmGeiii@reddit

I only know Spanish(of the Romance languages). and even though you can follow the rule 98% of the time, that 2% occurs quite a lot in daily usage. Enough for it to be a fault within the language and enough for anon to have a damn good point. There are also plenty of words where the ending is the opposite to its gender to make it even more confusing

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