Why all the hate for NASA?
Posted by ILoatheNickCage@reddit | Libertarian | View on Reddit | 79 comments
Forgive my ignorance on the topic. I agree that the best route for space exploration should be funded through private enterprise (pun intended). However, it always seemed to me that NASA was the least offensive US government organization to liberty, with most astronauts being openly critical of government policy. Still, there seems to be a lot of hate for them right now in some libertarian circles. Did I miss something?
Extension_Minimum984@reddit
STOP TALKING LIKE LOVING NASA LAIKA DIED FROM OVERHEAT JUST STOP LOVING NASA!đđ
Embarrassed_Trip5536@reddit
I don't get it either. My father worked at Langley Research Center along with the ladies featured in the movie, "Hidden Figures," and designed the computer programs used in the Apollo-Soyuz mission, specifically the docking of the two spacecraft. His work is in the Smithsonian.
I think it's mostly the pro-Melon Husk boyz who hate anything that isn't Melon Husk-related. NASA's an easy target because yes, it's slow, but steady, focused on safety and (from hard lessons learned in the past) always plans for the worst case scenario. People who hate on NASA can GTFOH.
Infamous-Dog2208@reddit
How about nasa knowing challenger wasnt safe and still preceding to launch, killing the entire crew.Â
Existing_Gate2423@reddit
Because like every government agency or bodies that are government funded just syphon my tax dollars like a crackhead on an Escalade.
Lastfaction_OSRS@reddit
I know it isn't very Libertarian of me, but NASA would be one of the departments I kept, but I would trim a lot of the fat.
NASA should be focused on the things that aren't profitable for the private sector to do. The SLS $2.4 billion launch cost is embarrassing when you compare it to SpaceX Falcon 9 Heavy launch price of $62-$67 million.
The problem with NASA is that politicians want to make sure some of it's budget benefits their constituents all over the country. If NASA was more narrowly focused and didn't have all the bureaucratic red tape from Washington weighing it down, it would probably be pretty nimble in tax payer money, but we all know how governments are.
Cinnabar_Wednesday@reddit
NASA doesnât spend the money in the way they say they do. I suspect many of the billions go to secret projects. In my opinion, NASA is likely a giant money laundering operation which puts on plays for the masses so we understand the need to fork over more cash
Hrimnir@reddit
I don't think its laundering so much as they prob just do a shitload of black projects for the DoD. I guess if you want to call it laundering in that sense.
Cinnabar_Wednesday@reddit
I agree with your sentiment. Just bugs me. Iâve witnessed flight technology that surpasses any billion dollar tin can wrapped with gold foil theyâve ever sent up. Yet, the state has propitiated this idea among the masses that what they are witnessing is alien technology. Since the 50âs. When will they drop the charade and trust the public to know about the true extent of technological advances?
KayleeSinn@reddit
If you defunded US military, you could fund 27 NASAs, they literally only get 0.47% of the budget so if anything is money laundering, I think you could easily find organizations that get more money and do less. Like saying sitting in a fancy building, writing useless policies and playing golf.
It's kinda sad that people are going after the one organization that actually does something useful while being criminally underfunded.
Cinnabar_Wednesday@reddit
Wtf has nasa done for human well-being? Thatâs the point of technology. Yet the rivers are undrinkable, the grid is from the 20âs, we build no thorium reactors, and we eat literal GARBAGE in the form of âheart healthyâ seed oils every day until these sad sacks of shit are forced to buy marked up epipens and dialysis treatment.
Whatâs something NASA has done that is useful, besides lie - time and time again?? Iâm all for scientific endeavors, but mark my words they are shams!!
divinecomedian3@reddit
Theft is theft
skeletus@reddit
They faked the moon landing
Speling_errers@reddit
I support NASA because they are the rare government agency that does things that (traditionally) were impossible for other organizations to do. Now that the commercial space industry is taking tangible shape, I also support them turning over things that can be done by industry to industry. For the time being, thatâs still mostly Low Earth Orbit enterprises. NASA still has an important role to play in those things that benefit humanity, but are not yet possible or profitable.
Also, they are the rare agency that brings tangible and lasting benefits through their push to innovate technology as well as science.
clarkstud@reddit
NASA shouldn't be funded by the government.
GildSkiss@reddit
I don't *personally* hate NASA, I think the vast majority of people there are good folks who just like space.
The problem is that NASA is very bad at putting things in space, and very *very* bad at doing it in a cost effective way. They are wasting a tremendous amount of the taxpayer's money on bureucratic shenanigains and military-industrial-complex corruption.
Look up the history of NASA's SLS program, and then directly contrast it to SpaceX's Falcon 9 and Starship programs. TLDR is that NASA has spent decades, and billions of dollars with absolutely nothing to show for it, while SpaceX has been reliably putting up hundreds of rockets for years, innovating the reusable rocket space, and rapidly making progress on their next generation of launchers.
It's one of my go-to examples of how the government is very bad at almost everything it does.
Grassburner@reddit
Great comment, but I want to point out that NASA is actually pretty good at putting stuff in space, they're just very bad at doing it in a cost effective way. Of the space programs they have one of the best reputations for success in their missions. That said, your comment stands even on this point. Private industry has proven itself to be just as effective, and much more efficient.
Paratwa@reddit
I always assume itâs congress assuring their various states/areas/companies get the money that causes the cost.
LongEZE@reddit
In a point for NASA, the redundancy they need to implement is worth it. If there were more catastrophes then people would be even more disenchanted with getting out to space and letâs all be real here, the future of humanity depends on getting into space.
Of all the agencies that should be cut, this is the last on my list
redditgolddigg3r@reddit
Not fair to compare the two straight up. How much innovation, development, etc. did SpaceX get from NASA over the years.
SpaceX doesnât exist in a world without the foundation and infrastructure laid out by NASA.
Speling_errers@reddit
And the funding from NASA as their largest customer (by far.)
KayleeSinn@reddit
That tremendous amount you're talking about is less than half a percent of the budget. Even if they wasted it finger painting all day long and watching old Star Trek episodes, it barely even matters. Besides they're the first to get budget cuts if a there's a new Ukraine or Iraq or whatever situation. If any government agency at all needs funding, they are one of the few that at least justify it.
Also, SpaceX and others have achieved nothing. The only way they seem as a success is cause NASA and maybe other government organizations need new rockets and other things, so they're delegating it to the private sector instead of developing their own. If there was no NASA, there would also be no SpaceX cause there would be no one who would want to buy the rockets they're making off them. No funding - no progress.
Besides, no private company has not and likely never will do things that are not profitable, such as starting a moon base or probing Uranus yet all this knowledge would advance mankind and is not as useless as it seems. I think NASA is just necessary "evil" cause there is simply no other to achieve what they do.
divinecomedian3@reddit
So wasting other people's money that you've stolen from them doesn't matter now? You in the right sub?
castingcoucher123@reddit
Every penny matters
KayleeSinn@reddit
Well, I guess, but I'd personally start with defunding nearly all other government entities first, instead of attacking the one that gets very little funding and actually has something to show for it.
GildSkiss@reddit
That's basically what I said in the last paragraph of my comment.
rhaphazard@reddit
Creating rapidly reusable rockets, sending people to space from US soil again, creating the first global and reliable satellite internet service, and single-handedly revitalizing the US space industry is "nothing"?
KayleeSinn@reddit
NASAs job is not building rockets, it's gathering information about the universe, so yes, nothing. SpaceX is not doing this at all and have never said they ever would.
Yes, NASA needs better tech to achieve this, including new rockets, satellites, space habitats and other things. This is why they use some of their funding to contract companies like SpaceX to do it for them. Without government funding, there would also be no SpaceX because there is no profit in the first stages of getting off Earth, just investments and expenses with no expected return.
rhaphazard@reddit
That's like saying blue collar workers have accomplished "nothing" because it's actually the architects and financiers that do all the real work.
KayleeSinn@reddit
No it's saying that NASAs job is exploring the universe and gaining information about it, SpaceX's is not and they have not even said it was. Meanwhile NASAs mission is not designing rockets, satellites and other such things.
What you're claiming is like saying the foresters have done more to education than schools by making the furniture and paper schools use.
rhaphazard@reddit
Let me quote you again.
totesnotdog@reddit
Many programs they need to get funding for gets tanked if it doesnât bring jobs to multiple states in some way. Which is ultimately a dysfunctional way of making space equipment. Using the space equipment and personnel in other countries for ground service support is one thing but an entire rocket doesnât need to be made I. Like 40 states. The way they have to get funding is dysfunctional because congressmen and senators wonât vote for space funding unless jobs are brought to their states
But space x shows that a centralized production process for space equipment can actually be more efficient. It makes sense when you think about it. A lot of politicians who are only concerned with jobs and taxable incomes coming to their states hate this it seems even though a centralized production process has a lot of merit.
Apollo was created by numerous contractor companies working in all kinds of different states and Iâm not saying itâs bad to have things split up between prime and sub contractors but itâs entirely unnecessary to demand that NASA jobs be all over the place in our country when it comes to the production of actual hardware.
Ground support personnel are one thing such as the HOSC or JSC but I donât really think the de centralized production process and how dependent on NASA on it to get funding is a good thing. Itâs honestly somewhat dysfunctional.
Kildragoth@reddit
That's a poor example. NASA is very bad compared to what? A company who learned from all of NASA's research and mistakes? NASA had to figure out 99.9% of the stuff SpaceX was built upon. SpaceX wouldn't exist if it weren't for contracts that NASA pays them for.
I just think it's a flawed approach to use scientific exploration and research as an example of government waste. The military directly benefits from those pursuits. Plus, anyone who studies economics knows that government spending is the best driver of the economy (better than tax cuts and stimulus payments). The amount of jobs that supports, and the subsequent tax revenues that comes back, doesn't fully pay for itself, but makes that spending about 1/3 cheaper than the total cost. I know that goes against Libertarian philosophy, but there's very little financial incentive for even the super wealthy to pursue these endeavors. SpaceX and BlueOrigin would not be doing what they're doing if someone didn't do all the hard research and work ahead of them.
Montananarchist@reddit
"government spending is the best driver of the economy"
Are you sure you're in the right sub?
Kildragoth@reddit
Eh, I was talking about MPC which has more to do with stimulating the economy during a recession... Not really accurate in the context I put it in. I'll cross it out. The rest of what I said I still stand by.
TaxAg11@reddit
I'm not sure they actually studied economics with a statement like that.
Montananarchist@reddit
His four types of workers plan will make everyone rich! Â
Worker type1: Those who do laundry
Worker type 2: Those who write legislation about doing laundry
Worker type3: Those who inspect laundromat working conditions
Worker type4: Those who inspect the laundry
joedotphp@reddit
To add to this, they really have no excuse for why SLS has taken so long. It's all based on old technology, which isn't a bad thing because they know it works. And yet, it still took 16 years to do ONE launch.
tlonreddit@reddit
The NPS, Bureau of Land Management, Forest Service, and US Fish & Wildlife Service, are very good at their job. They're the only part of the government I actually want to expand.
King_Burnside@reddit
Except that it isn't based on workable old technology. The idea was that you could stretch a shuttle SRB into a crew launch vehicle. Except SRBs have an inherent issue where fuel pieces can dislodge and burn faster. This creates acceleration spikes. These spikes are bad enough NASA never used them for human vehicles. The DoD contractor said they had it figured out. NASA bet the farm, and... it didn't work. So half the SLS is chucked out.
Then we have the heavy launcher, a shuttle main tank and stretched SRBs to haul cargo. But without the stretched SRBs being used for manned launches, the cost per unit has risen. And the shuttle main engines have always been horrendously expensive to manufacture, and were saved by being relatively reusable. But they're about to be thrown away with every launch. Add to this design creep and redesigns of major components, and it's now cheaper to have started from scratch.
joedotphp@reddit
Well, there you go. Even better then!
ctr72ms@reddit
NASA isn't the main problem. The politicians that run NASA as usual are what have ruined the organization. The admin has become a political appointee and how it operates has become linked to each presidential administration instead of being neutral and letting the engineers run things. There is no reason SLS should have ever been built like it was but a "congressional mandate" said to move forward and tied their hands on how to do it. You had lawyers that know nothing about spaceflight forcing them to reuse shuttle hardware which was terrible for the application. Add to that the contract process from the rest of the govt bleeding into NASA which allows Boeing to write themselves blank checks on taxpayer accounts and you get the bloated mess we have now. It will take a purge to get it back to where it was and I don't think that will ever happen.
unrequitednuance@reddit
Thatâs a solid utilitarian explanation, but how about a moral one, like how your money is taken from you coercively and spent on government programs that have no right to exist?
GildSkiss@reddit
You're not wrong. Even if NASA were an extremely efficient organization I would still oppose them, because they are funded involuntarily and by means of violence.
ChpnJoe308@reddit
đđđđ
PhilRubdiez@reddit
Itâs like the National Park Service. Theyâre on the chopping block, but theyâre near the bottom of the list.
thewholetruthis@reddit
Are you saying they waste money?
Honeydew-2523@reddit
this
manta173@reddit
Most of the complaints in here are about what Congress forced NASA to do... not what NASA wants to do... NASA's boss is Congress and it can't get things done without their approval... vote different folks in office if you want the bloat to go away and NASA to make things the most efficient and viable way.
katastrophies@reddit
Genuine question for libertarians as a non-libertarian: how do keep private companies that oversee objectively dangerous things (like space exploration) accountable to âthe peopleâ as opposed to shareholders? While I agree with a lot of the principles of libertarianism, one of the things I canât get past is that the free market accepts some level of death, disease, and destruction to optimize profit. I, as a voter, can voice my desire to spend a ton on safety testing etc to protect our astronauts. On the contrary, I have very little say into Boeingâs decisions on quality controls. You could argue that shareholders represent âthe peopleâ but thatâs totally disingenuous. Wall Street bankers donât actually care what happens to people in Louisiana, and in the case of a public program like NASA at least those people in Louisiana have a say.
Kanon-Umi@reddit
Vote for judges that do. If someone dies or is gravely injured due to you or your companyâs choice you go to court. The judge and jury hear the case. See a violation of NAP and law. Then jail you/those responsible. Jail is very motivating to not ruin lives. The government needs good lawyers to keep laws updated and judges to enforce them. Companies are already responsible for many important things we see everyday day. And when they mess up they go to court, problem is most people donât care about judges much and will just vote what ever if at all. Also we have many food and health issues all due to gov agencies not testing as much as they should, approving and then the companies defer to the gov approval to skip on punishment. Libertarianism isnât about no law or government, itâs about a reduced government size and involvement in our lives. Some take it further than others and thatâs where we get the strong âno true Scotts man in these groupsâ.
katastrophies@reddit
I can see this argument. Iâll think about it some more. The one point I take issue with, however, is that we would be granting a lot of power to a single expertise, lawyers. Take drug development, for example. The FDA is a group of scientists and physicians essentially peer reviewing everything we (biopharma) do - this is something lawyers are just not qualified for. I know libertarians donât like the federal agencies, but Iâm not sure of a better alternative? NASA, the FDA, these are experts in the field setting standards and pushing safety. Itâs not necessarily profitable but itâs to our benefit, and Iâm not sure how litigation gets us to the same place?
Kanon-Umi@reddit
Once again we get to the one true Scottâs man. I am sure someone else will disagree with me here. But just as OP is asking why the hate on NASA and many are saying eh, do we hate them? Same for FDA, CDC etc. Are they too big, infective, and cost hungry? Yes, do we hate what they do? Mostly not. I could see a middle ground where they exist but smaller. That said, lawyers call in experts to vouch and study things in cases. Then relay that info to the lawyer, judge, politicians and jury. Sounds like they could easily do the job of these facilities and the loser pays for the study. Issue becomes this study is done AFTER the company has caused harm. Do we trust that jail and cost will make them upfront the cost and check that it is safe? I argue no. They already do and sometimes ignore it and gov bodies either also ignore it or get altered data to base approvals on. Here I say we leave these government bodies but re-work them with the direction of specialists in the field the body works for. In a civilization you can reduce government, and remove government decision from private lives. But itâs hard to remove government and the systems with them and still have the support we want. Though we are not getting it to the extent we pay for it currently at least in the USAâŚ
MrPiction@reddit
Because we just waste a fuck ton of money
For what?
Trying to put people on Mars?
How the fuck is that going to help us?
Dash_OPepper@reddit
I'm surprised no one mentioned it, but NASA is not a space exploration agency, it is a intercontinental ballistics missile testing agency. It was only after put dogs and people it in that we started putting people in them to raise moral. The primary purpose was always to develop the tools to end humanity.
Escape_clown_world@reddit
Wait...you guys all think the moon landing ws real??? đł
jicty@reddit
I only completely support two government agencies. Nasa and the parks department. I know it's not very libertarian but I could never support either of those being shutdown and yes that is based 100% on personal feelings. Yes in this regard I am a bad libertarian. But space and trees man. Space and trees.
Wizard_bonk@reddit
NASA is cool. NASA being a glorified job program is not
jicty@reddit
I don't know if I would classify it as a jobs program. They actually do a lot a vauble things. Everyone always just thinks of the moon, mars, and deep space but nasa does a lot of earth sciences that have a drastic impact on our lives. Do you like having modern weather forcasting and geological surveys from orbit? NASA has been instrumental in changing how we view the planet.Â
That being said I 100% do agree NASA has a lot of bloat and needs to be run more efficiently. And they need to do it fast. 20 years ago they had no competition, now they have an entire private space industry that is competing more every day with SpaceX passing them in many ways.Â
So yes, NASA isn't perfect and may die from private competition but it does a lot of really good things for us and has been worth every penny we put into it so far. The future is less clear.
ctr72ms@reddit
SLS made it primarily a jobs program. All the money wasted on that one program could have been put into the aspects of NASA that most don't think of (weather, airfoil research, astronomy, etc.) And gotten a much bigger return on investment.
littlekidsjl@reddit
Space primacy is the next frontier. We must advance US interests in the space realm because whoever does that will have a huge advantage over everyone else. It is kind of like the race to colonize all the ânew landsâ that were discovered when ships and navies were advanced technologically.
Nice-Journalist-3563@reddit
NASA is a money pit with no clear goals.
AlphaTangoFoxtrt@reddit
I don't hate NASA, but we're running multi trillion dollar deficits. We need to cut spending. Yes there are bigger fish to try (The War Machine, Welfare both individual and corporate, foreign aid)
But we need to cut spending in all non-necessities. And NASA is not a necessity. Especially as the private sector has been leading the charge.
MasterBathingBear@reddit
I think NASA gets some hate because people donât look at the larger picture of what they do. NASA does Research and pays government contractors to do Development for them. SpaceX is solely focused on Development of rockets.
If you look at NASAâs full budget and compare it to SpaceX, yeah SpaceX looks like itâs throttling NASA. The truth is that SpaceX is more in competition with contractors like Northrop Grumman and Lockheed Martin than it is NASA.
WarningCodeBlue@reddit
A private company named SpaceX overtook NASA. Enough said.
KayleeSinn@reddit
This statement is just beyond ignorant. It's like saying Lockheed Martin overtook US military. Spacex is a contractor of NASA and is making stuff for them, same as private companies make guns and bombs for the military.
SpaceX as far as I know has also done nothing that NASA is doing. They are doing no researching whatsoever. Things like Sun activity, exoplanets, exploring bodies in the solar system and so on.
Mierdo01@reddit
Misinformation. SpaceX is completely independent of Nasa. If Nasa were to be dissolved SpaceX would still exist
Wizard_bonk@reddit
NASA is a jobs program. Thatâs the problem. If nasa actually had to worry about money and picking the best thing to do with its money, it wouldnât be spreading its workforce across 50 states and giving your senator a reach around.
But outside of that. Idk. They do cool stuff and all the stuff they work on becomes public domain so I canât hate
JakeyBS@reddit
Because it's a clandestine money laundering operation that lies to the public started by nazis. If you still believe we went to the moon, internet comments won't help you understand the nasa hate.
Uaana@reddit
NASA Died in the 70s when they became just another govt agency.
Government agencies show progress by increasing their budget needs, not actual results.
In it's current form, they are not capable of landing people on the moon and returning them to Earth. Nor can they do the same for trips to the ISS.
Exact-Expression3073@reddit
Here's your opinion on the matter. Liv White User Story short (youtube.com)
DigitalEagleDriver@reddit
Three questions you never ask:
A woman her age.
A man how much he makes.
NASA why so many of their scientists in the 1950s spoke German.
I really don't have a problem with NASA and their mission, as space exploration is pretty fascinating. But NASA is not the best at effectively and efficiently fulfilling their mission, and their poor handling of the shuttle program coming to an end without a viable alternative made is dependent on foreign space administrations. It's probably why private industry has stepped up so much more in recent years because NASA has been very cost ineffective.
VirPotens@reddit
NASA would probably be one of the last things to be abolished
diterman@reddit
Least offensive but still offensive. No matter how noble the goal of a government agency is, they still work with stolen funds.
dilly123456@reddit
Go there yeah heil and see what happens /s
BeescyRT@reddit
I love NASA.
It is what I would have wanted to work at if I lived in America.
aed38@reddit
I don't hate the people that work for NASA, but I generally hate any government program that's funded by our tax dollars against our will.
They're not proposing any groundbreaking new projects that couldn't be done by private companies.
IceManO1@reddit
This Channel pretty awesome if ya wanna know about space stuff.
prometheus_winced@reddit
Space is cool. NASA isnât space. Itâs the government. They literally take trillions of dollars and launch it in a giant tube into space.
Whitey on the Moon.
https://youtu.be/goh2x_G0ct4?si=DC6QsxBjktQqfxxX
AutoModerator@reddit
New to libertarianism or have questions and want to learn more? Be sure to check out the sub Frequently Asked Questions and [the massive /r/libertarian information WIKI] (/r/Libertarian/wiki/index) from the sidebar, for lots of info and free resources, links, books, videos, and answers to common questions and topics. Want to know if you are a Libertarian? Take the worlds shortest political quiz and find out!
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.