Why the german move from the MG3 to HK MG5 without trying to really modernized it ? lighten or simplify it, like they try by changing operating system on the MG60 or is equivalent in 5.56 the CETME AMELY from Spain. On the background video is HK421 lighter para version of HK MG5/121 12 to 8/9KG BTW
Posted by Adorable-Trust4687@reddit | ForgottenWeapons | View on Reddit | 53 comments
_shmoud_@reddit
Sorry for off topic, but if YouTube puts anything like this as an ad for videos, I’ll be gladly watching whole 3 unskippable minutes of it like this one here 😂
Avtamatic@reddit
What optic is that? I see he has an ACRO on top of it
PedroIsNotOk@reddit
I know this is a 3 month old comment but I'm still looking for the optic haha.
PedroIsNotOk@reddit
And I've found it :D
ZF-4 MKO by Hensoldt. Cheers.
Avtamatic@reddit
Nice job, man.
rextrem@reddit
The MG3 is heavy, 11.5kg. The MG5 while not being much lighter in its standard form has an infantry form a bit ligther (9.9kg). This brings us to :
Modularity, the MG3 works with a recoiling barrel, meaning it has to be held and it can't be changed without retuning the gun spring and bolt.
Length also, it's a damn long gun because of the standard barrel, the barrel frame, the recoil booster, it even has its main spring inside the stock.
Rate of fire, 1000RPM is too much, even for german machine-gunners.
Even if recoil operation is unkillable (hello M2) gas operation can bring more to a gun : lightness, compact action + available space around the barrel, RoF settings.
Schmittiboo@reddit
Correction. Both MGs in base version, the MG5 is actually heavier.
MG3 recoiling barrel? what?
ROF argument is right, but MG3 is more around 1200rpm
rextrem@reddit
11.5kg for the MG3 and 12kg for the MG5, not a huge difference, particularly if they make a dedicated infantry variant. I think they tend to replace all their fortified guns so the 12kg guns are unlikely to be dismounted from their tripods.
MG3 works on a short recoil system like the MG42, so yes recoiling barrel.
I don't know my numbers exactly, I know the MG42 is 1200rpm, with the MG3 they could tune it with different bolt weight, and the Bundeswehr chose a high rate of fire, but not as high as 1200.
MasterBlaster_xxx@reddit
Firearms aside; who the fuck edited the video? Zack Snyder?
FZ_Milkshake@reddit
Someone more knowledgeable may correct me, but AFAIK, none of the stamped metal rifles (FAL, CETME, Stgw. 57, MG3, G3, stamped AK etc.) got a massive upgrade. The most you could do with them was exchange the furniture from wood to polymer and shorten the barrel.
The MG3 doesn't really have furniture in the first place, the front hand guard is part of the barrel change mechanism and the rest of the steel is all funktional parts. Furthermore with a stamped gun, every change needs a new set of stamping dies for almost the whole gun. There is just not that much to change and the slightest change would be incredibly expensive.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
I really like this answer thanks
sandalsofsafety@reddit
To add to this, not only does the MG3's design make it harder to manufacture different variants, but it also makes it harder to modify in the field. The word of the day in the defense industry is "modularity", the ability to easily reconfigure your equipment for different rolls. The MG3 really only comes as a full-size GPMG, not even able to fold it or break it down for transport. Meanwhile, more modern offerings from FN and HK can change caliber, barrel length, and stocks, to go from a compact squad automatic to a pintle mounted support weapon to a remote controlled coax gun in a tank.
GreenCreekRanch@reddit
Well, the g3 got some fairly substantial upgrades in sweden and spain, but you are largely correct, on these types of guns you can really only add stuff to the outside, giving it more capability, but lightening it requires changing stuff on the inside and when you change the stamping dies, you amy aswell just start essentially from the ground up.
Pirat_fred@reddit
No Germany Company did produce any more parts for the MG3, Rheinmetall did Import stuff from Pakistan and other Licensed product Icons but they weren't up to Code and Quality.
It's an old design, the KWS Kampfertsteigerung Version make the gun 1 to two Kilos heavier than the MG5
1200 rpm is really high it was this high so it could be used as Anti Air, with long-range Canons, Flir and fast movers and armor and redundant Systems on most aircraft these day this is no longer a viable role a 7,62 gun can fill.
Currently there is a Comeback against drones for high rpm guns against drones, but the 600 to 800 rpm does the Job too.
Barrel life, after 150 rounds you have to(should) change the barrel, so after one Belt you also have to change the barrel, with the lower RPM and the different barrel geometry of the MG5 it last longer. The tryed to build different barrles for the MG3 but it didn't go anywhere because All the could really do is add fins (wich didn't help that much) and change the material wich helped but made the barrles really Fucking expensive.
Die Vorlagefähigkeit, the ability to push out a stuck bullet out of the barrle with the next shoot or survived the overpressure and don't hurt the operator is give in the MG5 because it can handle higher pressure, you can change the barrel and shoot again. The MG3 will delet itself and hurt the operator.
TomShoe@reddit
An aluminum MG3 was always going to be a non-starter because it's just not strong enough to interact with the rollers. Titanium might have worked, but not on the Bundeswehrs budget of four euros and a packet of chips/annum.
Pirat_fred@reddit
If I rember correctly, they wanted to do steel inserts on the high stress areas similar to the steel frame in the G36 or Polymer handguns.
But at the end a new, modern gun was more practical, cheaper and easier to make.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Thanks you a lot , a true good answer and very complete with that
radioactiveProfit@reddit
Insert Mr Krabs rubbing his claws together and saying "money"
Barilla3113@reddit
The AMELY is much lighter than the MG3, but still almost double the weight of the MG5. There’s only so much you can “modernise” an old design. The MG3 was only adopted due to budget constraints and Rhinemetal stopped making new ones in 1977z
Nosbres@reddit
Mg5 is 11.5kg Mg3 is 12kg
Wannabe_Operator83@reddit
keep weight distribution in mind. The MG3 / 74 is very front heavy
Nosbres@reddit
So is the 5
TomShoe@reddit
It's not nearly as bad, but you're still not going to be firing it from the shoulder
KingofSkies@reddit
Uh, what?
Mg5 is 11.5kg
Mg3 is 12kg
Cetme Amelia is 5.3kg
So yeah, the Ameli is lighter than the Mg3, but it's not heavier than the Mg5. What do you think the Mg5 weighs? cuz I found results saying between 11.2 and 12.10 kilos.
Preussensgeneralstab@reddit
Because
1: the MG3 is a heavy and old bitch who really isn't produced that much. The MG3 very much needs a replacement that doesn't have the excessive 1200rpm fire rate.
2: Good ol H&K corruption
Whisky-161@reddit
It's important to understand that the MG42 was made with very different doctrine in mind and it offers no real potential to upgrade it anymore anyway.
Funny is that of all my Bundeswehr friends, only one guy actually likes the guy, onbviously the guy who had it in his IFV, but never had to carry it anywhere. All the airborne guys, the Jäger and the specialized troops hate the MG3 with every gram of their being.
TomShoe@reddit
To be absolutely fair, there tends to be a stark divide in opinion on the FN MAG/M240 between those who've used it in combat and those who haven't. If your experience with it is mostly lumping it around it obviously sucks, but once you've used it in combat, you tend to get a certain appreciation for the fact that it just runs and runs and runs where the lighter 249... doesn't.
Quarterwit_85@reddit
Yep. My old housemate was in the German military and loathed the MG3. Absolutely hated it.
Nosbres@reddit
The 5 is 400g lighter then the three with neither having accessories or Ammo in it
Source a Bundeswehr Armory soldier
Nekommando@reddit
You'd think being designed some 60 years apart would mean there is substantial weight difference
Nosbres@reddit
Well yea but the 5 gets barred from use if you look at it funny
bnurbs@reddit
MG5 Is actually slightly heavier than the MG3, funnily enough.
Preussensgeneralstab@reddit
That's where the H&K corruption comes in.
bnurbs@reddit
MG5 Is actually slightly heavier than the MG3, funnily enough.
KingofSkies@reddit
You're very interested in machine guns eh? I notice you ask a lot of questions, usually about MGs. Just an interest or are you a student or something?
Bloody_Insane@reddit
You the gestapo or something?
KingofSkies@reddit
Not at all. Just curious about someone's interest.
Great_White_Sharky@reddit
Fed posts worst bait ever, gets asked to leave the FBI
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
An interest, i am very curious guy by nature and i like to think why a object is design for and how improve it , a lmg is a very good start you can find easily information on it and differnt design to be compared
KingofSkies@reddit
Right on. Hope you've gotten lots of good answers!
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
In every of my post i have good answers and i learn from it new things that's fantastic to speak with other that have the same interest. have a great day man.
KingofSkies@reddit
That's great! Have a great day!
CatEnjoyer1234@reddit
MG3 is old and from what I've heard not very reliable.
Walker_Hale@reddit
It’s certainly reliable. If they do have issues, I’m willing to say it’s an artifact of them being in rotation for years and years
CatEnjoyer1234@reddit
Probably more the ladder I don't even know if the MG3 is still in production in Germany.
EffNein@reddit
Incompetence and pro-HK corruption.
Bloody_Insane@reddit
Was the video made by Zack Snyder? Slow then fast then slow then fast then zoom then fast then slow.
Adorable-Trust4687@reddit (OP)
Who know ;)
xerelox@reddit
ve'd hav to redo alll ze training manuals, Dumkoff!
Pirat_fred@reddit
Was macht der Holländer hier?
freedom_viking@reddit
What’s the barrel length on the new gun seems pretty short for 7.62
RARE_ARMS_REVIVED@reddit
Using the M60 type system would make sense seeing as it's a German based design that is quite light and very controllable, it's only real downside is a few more stoppages than the Mag58 (M240). The real reason that wasnt adopted was because a few people somewhere are making a few million Euros for this deal. It's always about money rather than performance these days.
AutoModerator@reddit
Understand the rules
Check the sidebar. It's full of resources to help you.
Not everyone is an expert such as yourself; be considerate.
No Spam. No Memes.
No political posts. Save that for /r/progun or /r/politics.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.