What is "New York Chinese Food?"

Posted by Easy_Potential2882@reddit | AskAnAmerican | View on Reddit | 158 comments

I've heard about "New York Chinese" my whole life, but never been sure what it means, and I've never met a New Yorker who can pin down a definition. Like I'm originally from LA, people ask me "where can I get Chinese food like in New York?" I dont know what to tell them.

Reply to Post

Reply

158 Comments

[-]

New_Stats@reddit

I think they're asking where the egg rolls are at bb the West Coast doesn't have them as much, they're everywhere around here It's a wonton wrapper filled with shredded cabbage, shrimp paste and then it's deep fried. A lot of people put duck sauce on it which apparently you all don't have over there. It's made with apricots and chili.

Reply

[-]

old_gold_mountain@reddit

Every Chinese restaurant I've ever been to in San Francisco has those

Reply

[-]

New_Stats@reddit

Apparently people have a hard time finding them in Oakland https://www.reddit.com/r/OaklandFood/s/d7hPG9dFAn

Reply

[-]

old_gold_mountain@reddit

got take-out tonight in San Francisco, pretty tasty: https://i.imgur.com/zPxGXlo.jpeg

Reply

[-]

old_gold_mountain@reddit

Makes me certainly not trust any advice on that subreddit then

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I've had egg rolls at Nom Wah in Chinatown, they were very thick, deeply fried, and came with duck sauce. But how common is that really? Most takeout places I've gotten in Brooklyn have the same Sysco frozen egg rolls available nationwide.

Reply

[-]

New_Stats@reddit

It is extremely common, it's in every single fast food style Chinese restaurant, because most of them have the same supplier. There are two kinds of Chinese restaurants - the ones we call Chinese restaurants - the fast food style, tell them the number and they'll make you something that literally tastes like every other dish And then we have Cantonese and Szechuan restaurants. (And probably other Chinese cuisines but I haven't seen them) Those are actual restaurants with actual good food. Most people go for the fast food style Chinese. I have no idea why, it's not good.

Reply

[-]

Apocalyptic0n3@reddit

So I don't know about New York-specific Chinese Food, but there are definitely regional differences. This was actually one of the more disappointing things when I moved to Phoenix. Apparently metro Detroit has a variation of of Almond Chicken (called "Almond Boneless Chicken") that is basically only found there (and is largely the primary dish locals eat). I've tried almond chicken at like 20 different places down here and not a single of them were what I would consider Almond Chicken. I gave up on Chinese Food down here ages ago and only recently found out why it's so "bad" to my expectations.

Reply

[-]

Amaliatanase@reddit

Yes there are absolutely regional differences in American Chinese food but when you are living in a specific region you never think of that as just a "here" thing. Some things I've noticed comparing New England Chinese food to other areas I've lived. New England chow mein: gloopy mixture of bean sprouts and other veggies with crunchy noodles on top. Elsewhere this is what we call lo mein. New England egg rolls: super crispy and thick. Filling is very thinly ground roast pork and celery and cabbage. Elsewhere egg rolls are a bit smaller and the filling is more a mixture of vegetables that is chopped up rather than ground. New England duck sauce: Brown and thinner than the orange stuff most other places. Shrimp in lobster sauce: shrimp with a brown sauce made from ground pork. Finally there is some nomenclature stuff like calling potstickers Peking ravioli.

Reply

[-]

cohrt@reddit

Wtf is almond chicken? Never seen that at any Chinese restaurant.

Reply

[-]

Mysterious-Nose-68@reddit

Do you mean the whole piece of chicken, breaded and fried, then served with gravy and almonds on top? I grew up a little farther north, and was always used to the traditional almond chicken, bits of chicken with green peppers and onions. I moved a little south to the Flint/Lansing area and all I could get was that breaded chicken, highly missed my normal almond chicken. Now back in my hometown I sometimes yearn for that breaded chicken and gravy!

Reply

[-]

Apocalyptic0n3@reddit

I _think_ you're describing what I'm talking about but that could also be a dozen other dishes. Here's a [photo](https://s3-media0.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto/HnCc8lz9rm0eUeleccz8Xw/o.jpg) of what I'm talking about. Generally served with a delicious mound of brown rice. The breading literally falls off the chicken. Absolutely delicious. The gravy was always served on the side which I was always thankful for because I don't like most gravies (or non-tomato sauces in general, really). That's one of the things I disliked about almond chicken in Phoenix – even when I ask for no gravy, they still piled it on so thick that it ruined the dish for me.

Reply

[-]

Tough_Pain_1463@reddit

Nit hald as good as Boston (AKA New Englsnd Style) Chinese, but better than anything in the southern US.

Reply

[-]

TsundereLoliDragon@reddit

I've never heard this term before, but maybe because I've lived in the northeast my whole life.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

New Yorkers come to LA all the time and ask "where is this stuff?" There are even restaurants in LA that self-describe as "New York Style Chinese Food," but those places are primarily not takeout spots, and serve the same Americanized Chinese food as any other place.

Reply

[-]

Zorro_Returns@reddit

IDK if all Americanized Chinese food is the same. Chinese came to New York even before California, and the two groups were far apart, so their adaptations to American ingredients and tastes would have evolved along different paths. I consider a lot of "Americanized" Chinese food to be authentically Chinese, since it was brought here by Chinese, FOR Chinese, using traditional Chinese methods and ingredients as much as possible. The non-Chinese Americans tried it and liked it enough for a business to emerge. It wasn't like some grand corporation arrived from Beijing and established a chain of thousands of restaurants. It was Chinese laborers, cooking for one another.

Reply

[-]

Agent666-Omega@reddit

"The first major wave of Chinese immigration to the United States began in the 1850s, primarily driven by the California Gold Rush. While most immigrants settled in California, some moved east to cities like New York." I think the first wave of immigration was actually California first. However the first individuals were in New York as you suggested "The first Chinese immigrants arrived in the United States in 1847. Three Chinese students arrived in New York City for schooling. One of them graduated from Yale in 1854 and was the first Chinese to graduate from a U.S. college." Quotes were from google

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I don't know if Chinese people have been in New York that much longer than they've been in California. SF Chinatown has been around since the 1850s. Plus the railroad brought many Chinese into contact with both coasts. I agree though, "Americanized" Chinese is not as inauthentic as people think.

Reply

[-]

Zorro_Returns@reddit

There were a few students who went to NY in 1947, but that doesn't count for anything. I don't know anything about the history of NY's China town, but I guess it would be easy enough to guess that they *left* China for the same reason as the wave of 1849 in SF.... which was war and famine in Canton, where nearly all of them came from There were LOTS of Cantonese living in the west in the late 1800s until racist laws fucked them over and stopped immigration cold. Maybe as many Cantonese as whites living in Idaho in the 1870s. You can see it in the 1880 census record, "Canton" written line after line as birthplace. So if you're looking for an *authentic* place to get some *chow*, look in small towns, near areas where there were mining booms, and look for "Cantonese" used more often than "Chinese". And when you start looking, you'll find it lots of places. Those are the places likely to be handed down through generations. Some of the families who own them have lived back and forth between the US and Hong Kong for generations. There are families around HK who keep this family history alive by keeping members in the US and Canada. It's an amazing history, but not always a pretty story.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Maybe this is a recent trend but I spent a lot of time in NYC and have friends there and they don’t use the phrase “NY style.” It just means the standard Americanized menu which is all over the US and I don’t think NYC invented it. If anyone asks just point them to a dim sum restaurant and say “you’re welcome.”

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

So basically it's a way to distinguish from authentic regional Chinese? I can accept that, my New York friends just seem so downright disappointed by the Americanized Chinese food here, when to me it really is not different.

Reply

[-]

Agent666-Omega@reddit

Where did you take them for Americanized Chinese food. Because in New York since authenticity and quality of Chinese food is taken less seriously there, they end up putting quite a bit of effort in their Americanized stuff. Whereas in LA, many people, especially Asians, view American Chinese food as just pure garbage, the quality fry cooks and chefs end up cooking the real shit. And the lower quality ones end up making the Americanized stuff

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Eh NYC folks are disappointed by any food that isn’t from NYC. They are a proud people. Literally no one can possibly make pizza and bagels better than them! Of course. Because chefs and bakers don’t exist in the rest of the country and there is apparently some magic in their water. You tell them you prefer Detroit or New Haven style and they’ll act like you kicked a puppy.

Reply

[-]

Chance-Business@reddit

As a NYC resident I see absolutely no difference between american chinese food in nyc vs the rest of the country in terms of *content*. Where I do see the difference is in taste. It taste massively better when I'm in nyc and not only that they make it about 5x faster in nyc than anywhere else. Otherwise it's all exactly the same. I can't even understand how this happens, considering I spent 35 years of life before I moved to NYC and had NO ties to new york whatsoever in terms of being native or raised there, nor considering it as a proud place of better food or anything. I really had no stars in my eyes about moving there and quite literally was forced to move there due to a job. As a matter of fact, my girlfriend at the time moved away from new york and hated nyc with a passion as someone who grew up there and she said to me constantly how it was just not a great place to live in or be in, so from my perspective, NYC was seemingly a terrible place from what I'd been told. Yet when I got there I noticed the food got better instantly. No idea what it could be. The only thing I suspected it might be due to the water as they say. At one point years ago, for reasons due to investigating a family member's health and not because of food, I actually bought a water tester and personally confirmed its cleanliness straight out of the tap myself. It could very well be that the quality of nyc water is just naturally very high. In terms of speed, I guess that's just naturally how they are. I personally now walk and move about twice as fast as my family does now, out of sheer having to keep up with the speed of how other new yorkers move. Either you do that or you get run over on the sidewalk.

Reply

[-]

Eudaimonics@reddit

Don’t get me started on their shitty dirty water hot dogs

Reply

[-]

Particular-Cloud6659@reddit

I hope you day this kind of thing when Southerners are complaining about BBQ.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Oh god of course I do. The online BBQ wars are so absurd. Good BBQ is good no matter where it is. Preference on style is fine. But god if I heard someone say there was something magic in the water or air that made their bbq superior I’d be rolling my eyes.

Reply

[-]

rockresy@reddit

Australia here. The bagels & pizza slices we had in New York this January were significantly better than we've had anywhere else in the world. Particularly the pizza slices.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

I’m glad you enjoyed them but I must ask did you try any Detroit style pizza or New Haven neo napolitano? That’s the thing NYC has great food and it’s dense enough that you have a billion options, but they’re just lunatics about looking down on stuff from anywhere else even if it is better.

Reply

[-]

rockresy@reddit

Can't say we did. But we're quite well traveled & New York pizza slices were excellent. We also went to Chicago, Florida & Texas but the pizza slices in New York were a standout. I read here that it's the pure level of competition in New York that makes them good (so many choices that poor quality ones just don't survive).

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Yeah it’s the same in Chicago. If your place sucks then you won’t last long… except Pizzaria Uno.

Reply

[-]

rockresy@reddit

We were only there for one day! Didn't get enough chance to explore but it's damm cold in January

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Oh yeah, it can be brutal up there in January. One day is not enough time. If you ever go back hit me up and I’ll dump all the recommendations.

Reply

[-]

rockresy@reddit

Thank you! Will do :)

Reply

[-]

PepsiCo_Pussy@reddit

The food in NYC is just better than the rest of the country like, in general. I’m not from NYC. I’ve just been enough to freaking agree 😂😂 Makes me hungry to just think about the pizza 😅

Reply

[-]

msspider66@reddit

As a NYer living in Metro Detroit I kinda agree. Except for good Detroit style pizza. No puppy kicking there. It is a solid second place pizza style. I compare it to what a NYer would call Sicilian pizza but I think Detroit pizza is better. I

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Detroit style may actually take my top spot. But it all really depends on the place.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

I live in New England, and NYC bagels are better. I don’t understand why shops here can’t do the same thing. I agree about pizza. There are regional differences, and I like all of them.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I agree, NYC bagels are better. I think it comes down to most places outside New York don't invest in the facilities and equipment to make bagels right, a lot of places kind just bake them in an oven and that's it.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

Yes. It’s not “the water is better!” It’s probably the method.

Reply

[-]

TastyBrainMeats@reddit

If it's not boiled, it's simply not a bagel. Bagels are boiled.

Reply

[-]

thatguygreg@reddit

Americanized Chinese food can be made well and badly like anything else. The Chinese food in NYC is consistently a mid-high quality, no matter where you got it from. When someone is asking where the “NYC style food” is, point them to the Americanized place that stays busy, and ranks 3.5/5 stars.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I feel like New Yorkers are looking at this with rose colored glasses. Depending on where you are in the city, the options can range from great to absolutely awful. I think New York has some of the BEST Chinese restaurants in America. No question. But is there a Wo Hop in every neighborhood? Absolutely not. And that's true of any city. There might be more places in New York, because more people means more restaurants, but I think the ratio of good to bad Chinese is exactly the same as LA or SF

Reply

[-]

Agent666-Omega@reddit

NY didn't invent it. If anything it was SF because I think that was where the first Chinese immigrants landed

Reply

[-]

GypsySnowflake@reddit

Isn’t dim sum a different thing though?

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Yeah but it’s my favorite Chinese food.

Reply

[-]

oatmealparty@reddit

I've lived in NJ most of my life, currently live a couple miles from WTC. Spent a lot of time in PA and GA too. Have never once in my life heard the term NY style Chinese food, and have no idea what the would even entail.

Reply

[-]

Squissyfood@reddit

Also in NJ, I'd assume it's shitty strip mall takeout. I guess California, which has a larger, older Chinese population, has more authentic stuff by default

Reply

[-]

holyvegetables@reddit

I didn’t know there were regional differences either until I moved across the country.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

What are the differences?

Reply

[-]

thelordreptar90@reddit

Having worked at a Chinese takeout spot in high school to moving to a different part of the state after college, I’d say the differences are subtle. Like the vegetables are slightly different and how they’re cut are different.

Reply

[-]

mst3k_42@reddit

We hear this BS in North Carolina *all the time* from NY transplants. For Chinese food, pizza, bagels, delis. But it’s never just “oh, that was so good!” It’s always “why does all the food suck here?” And then they get upset that we get offended. Like, you moved *here,* bitch about our food and how everything sucks. Excuse me for not being all that welcoming when you come in with that attitude. Personally I don’t like ANY Americanized Chinese food. There’s a Rick and Morty joke about getting Chinese takeout and someone asks, “hey, where’s the chicken with sugar?” And Beth replies, “that’s all of them.” My favorite is Szechuan Chinese. The more numbingly spicy the better.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

I hate people like that. Unfortunately, it works in all directions.

Reply

[-]

therealjerseytom@reddit

I grew up in the northeast, went to college out west, worked a bit in the midwest, and now have been in the southeast for the past decade or so. I've never heard anyone use the phrase "New York Chinese food."

Reply

[-]

Agent666-Omega@reddit

So I happen to come across this post because I was searching on google what people consider New York Chinese food. And it is stuff like General Tsao Chicken, Crab Ragoon and Broccoli & Beef. The thing you have to understand about New York is that at one time, they were simply the top city for almost everything. One thing they really took pride in is their food. As a Chinese person who has been to many parts of Asia, grew up in SGV in the LA area and been to New York I can tell you for a fact that New Yorkers are not as "real" as they claim to be. And this is an example of it. New Yorkers can't stand that they aren't the top #1 in something they take pride in. New York Chinese food isn't a real thing. SF does the same thing, it's just Americanized Chinese food which is a type of Chinese Fusion because when the Chinese originally immigrated to America, it was during an era that wasn't exactly as open minded as it is today. Chinese restaurants really had to adapt to survive. So they mixed American values at the time with Chinese values to create their food. There is beauty in the adaptability and survival and history of what this cuisine represents However, from a purely culinary perspective, "New York Style" or rather Americanized Chinese food isn't only extremely unauthentic, but just purely inferior in terms of flavor complexity and simply quality. But New Yorkers are too prideful to admit this so, as you can tell from my bias, it does irk me when they come to LA asking for subpar shit. They are right though, Chinese food in LA doesn't hit like it does in NY, in that it doesn't hit like shit. That's not to say all of the places in New York sucks for Chinese food. Food culture changes in areas all the time. There used to be no authentic Texas BBQ spots in LA, now there is. I heard some people mentioned Queens and Flushing so I might have to go there to compare. But to your specific question, there is no such thing as "New York Style" Chinese food. It is just Americanized Chinese food that they rebranded so they can feel like they are unique and special.

Reply

[-]

Current_Poster@reddit

Most takeout Chinese places up here vary in things like how fast or fresh they are or if they believe in White Spicy (which was never a problem back home, but whatever), but the actual menu is mostly the same. If you wanted, you could find authentic like-in-China food, but that's not what most people mean. It's been fine tuned to local tastes since maybe the 30s? At least? This is true of other regions (New England Chinese Food has some really distinctive variations, not counting 50sesque tiki 'Polynesian' food), but it's really New York to think that's just The only other thing i can think of is Western Chinese food- not *westernized*, but in the style of Western China rather than coastal China. Handpulled noodles with various sauces and so on. That's a regular thing here, and *really* good.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

For a second I thought "Western Chinese" meant like, china's interpretation of western food, kind of like how Japan has yoshoku, western style food invented by Japanese that actually doesn't exist in the West. Now I wonder if such a phenomenon exists in China.

Reply

[-]

jyper@reddit

> kind of like how Japan has yoshoku, western style food invented by Japanese that actually doesn't exist in the West I've seen a couple of Japanese curry places in the US. Not super common but they exist.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Well, OK, yes Japanese yoshoku restaurants exist. What I meant was, it's western style foods that weren't invented in the West, such as omelet rice

Reply

[-]

jyper@reddit

Had to wiki https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y%C5%8Dshoku Was surprised to learn Japan has a version of Pirozhki. Will have to try them if I ever visit.

Reply

[-]

youngeli@reddit

As I currently live on Long Island, work in NYC and regularly visit my parents that retired to Phoenix, I feel like I am qualified to answer this one. My parents have had this exact issue since moving from Long Island to Phoenix a few years ago. To start, NY Chinese Food is not referring to the (amazing) authentic Chinese food you can find in Flushing (Queens), Sunset Park (Brooklyn) or Chinatown (Manhattan). NY Chinese Food is a highly Americanized version that exists primarily in the outerboroughs and the suburbs, like Long Island and New Jersey. Although Americanized Chinese food exists everywhere in the US, it's definitely different and better in the NYC suburbs. First off, there are two distinct types of restaurants that are serving this food. The more common type is the standard take out spot that has a counter for ordering and a few tables and chairs that no one except the owner's children ever use (when they aren't behind the counter taking orders). Most customers will have never seen the inside of their favorite take out as they typically order for delivery. The less common type is the full sit down restaurant. They always seem to have a bowl of fried noodles with a duck sauce for dipping on the table when you first sit down. The menus tend to be similar across the two styles of restaurant, but I'd say the sit down places are a bit fancier, and are usually meant to be eaten family style. The number one dish my parents miss is pork spare ribs. I even took them to a nice sit-down Chinese restaurant in San Diego to try their pork spare ribs, but it just wasn't the same. Honestly, the closest they've found out there is an appetizer at PF Changs, but it's still definitely "off" tasting. Even dishes at the Chinese places in Phoenix that have the same names as the dishes from our local place in NY, they just taste wildly different. It's so strange, honestly. They're at the point that they don't bother eating Chinese food except when visiting me.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I lived in Brooklyn, and the Chinese takeout there was mostly terrible. There's some alright spots in Park Slope and Bed Stuy, but it got to the point where I just never ordered Chinese food because there was no point. Maybe it's different in Queens, but I can't honestly say that the situation is like that in the outer boroughs as a whole. I've never actually encountered that type of restaurant in New York, at least not outside Chinatown. The place I'm imagining when you say sitdown Chinese is like, the place from the beginning of Rush Hour, and that restaurant is famously an LA landmark (Foo Chow). I think it's unfair to judge Chinese food outside New York based on San Diego and Phoenix. They don't have a historically large Chinese community like LA or SF.

Reply

[-]

youngeli@reddit

I’ve noticed that the Chinese food in Brooklyn, at least near Atlantic Terminal, is Halal, so no pork obviously. Very different taste than typical NY Chinese food. Also, one component that I think is missing from the conversation is that the typical NY Chinese Food restaurants seem to usually be in areas that are typically (secular) Jewish. There’s definitely a symbiotic relationship between Jewish communities and Chinese food restaurants in the NYC area that plays some role in the cuisine.

Reply

[-]

jyper@reddit

I'm curious how that might play an influence. I've heard that in earlier times when at least trying to keep kosher was common some Jews would order things that were easier to pretend weren't treif stuff like dumplings (pork is covered by dough).

Reply

[-]

Key-Plan-7449@reddit

Yeah this just isn’t a thing? Did you hear one guy from New York say that and decide everyone does? Lived on the CT NY border first 25 years of my life visiting nyc very often and never heard this once or anything similar.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

About once or twice a month a new Yorker comes into r/foodlosangeles and asks "where can I find New York style Chinese?" There's even a restaurant here that describes themselves as New York style Chinese

Reply

[-]

lupuscapabilis@reddit

We have a version of chow mein in NY that is very different from the rest of the country. It's much lighter than lo mein and mostly vegetables. I love it. It really confused me when I ordered it in San Francisco and got what resembled lo mein.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

It’s just the general Americanized stuff. In New York you can get anything from very authentic to your standard Americanized dishes like general Tso’s, orange chicken, lo mein, beef and broccoli, etc. But NYC loves branding stuff as only good if it comes from The City. So, New York Chinese even if it’s the same Chinese I can get in Indianapolis.

Reply

[-]

TastyBrainMeats@reddit

I have never in my life heard it referred to as "New York Chinese", and I had no real expectation for the takeout to be better here than anywhere else. We've got crap like Panda Express here too, much to my regret.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

It’s like the whole bodega breakfast sandwich thing. Yeah they’re fine but there’s no magic or special style. I have found breakfast sandwiches like that all over.

Reply

[-]

TastyBrainMeats@reddit

Yep. The bagels outside of New York DO tend to suck, though. Mostly they're not actually bagels, they're just...bread.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Yeah but some bagels are like that in NYC and some of the best bagels I have had were not in NYC. That’s not to throw shade on NYC bagels, just that New Yorkers have a stubborn refusal to like anything anywhere else in my experience.

Reply

[-]

Time-Bite-6839@reddit

You have that, but unless you’re getting NYC’s tap water, its dough, its cheese and its sauce, it’s not gonna be the best pizza.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Oh good god, the fucking tap water trope. There is nothing magic about NYC tap water. It’s not like it imparts some incredible terroir to the food or dough. It’s fucking tap water. My well water is actually the best most magical water to make dough with. New York water is just from a random reservoir in Westchester and as far as I know no wizards or engineers impart any special magic to it. Cheese sauce and dough can be done amazingly anywhere. Better anywhere. Pizza can suck anywhere and it can be amazing anywhere. It’s the chefs and the ingredients and New York ain’t anything special other than they do have good places and I like the style. This insane idea that there’s some miraculous supply chain or water with fairy dust in it in NYC that makes pizza better is so dumb that it actually makes me angry as a normally very calm guy.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I will say that the tap water in LA is much harder than the tap in NY. The softest tap water in the world though us Japan, which may be why their pizza is so good (not kidding, Japanese pizza is huge right now)

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Man then northern New England should be making the finest pizza on the planet along with Hawaii. I’m curious, have you done a lot of baking? I am a hobbyist bread maker and pizza maker. I have done it up here in Maine with softest water you can possibly get and in Indianapolis which is known for the water being super hard. Water makes a bit of difference for bread, in the rise and the crumb, but then you’re spinning it out super flat and making it into NY style pizza then the water isn’t really making a difference.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I mean I'm not a water scientist, maybe it makes no real difference, I just know what I know about the relative hardness of water in certain places. LA? Not known for good pizza, has hard water. NYC and Japan? Known for good pizza, have soft water. But correlation doesn't equal causation.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

The tap water isn’t going to be the deciding factor for the quality of baking. And it definitely won’t be the deciding factor for quality pizza.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

The whole NYC tap water thing started out as a joke. It was one of those things, where someone makes a joke, and someone else thinks it’s clever, and then it takes on a life of its own. You’re right, and it’s disappointing how simple minded some people can be.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Really it was a joke? That is next level trolling because plenty of people honestly believe it.

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

I couldn’t find evidence of a joke. I do remember watching a cooking show, and a woman said that it’s the water. The host took her seriously, and pondered it briefly before she said, “I was kidding!” This was in the 1990s. There used to be lots of “it’s in the water!” or “don’t drink the water!” jokes about anything and everything. I did find a couple links that claim that it’s a myth that it’s the water. I hope links are allowed in this sub. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/new-york-water-bagels-so-good-nom_n_7242452 https://www.npr.org/sections/thesalt/2015/05/21/405190434/chew-on-this-the-science-of-great-nyc-bagels-its-not-the-water

Reply

[-]

GeorgePosada@reddit

Be angry about it all you want but there is absolutely a noticeable drop off in pizza quality outside of the NYC area. That isn’t to say you can’t get good pizza elsewhere, but it’s going to be fewer and farther between because the general standard of quality isn’t nearly the same. Denying it is silly

Reply

[-]

tangledbysnow@reddit

That's a silly argument - maybe the argument for high quality of NYC style pizza the way NYers like their pizza...sure. That I 100% buy. But I actually don't like NYC pizza. And despite NYC protests, a lot of us don't. That's why Detroit or Chicago or any the other dozens of pizza types exist. Just because you don't think our pizza meets your NYC standards does not mean it is bad quality pizza.

Reply

[-]

GeorgePosada@reddit

Do you have many restaurants in Nebraska that serve Detroit-style pizza? Or Chicago deep dish? Or are the vast majority of places trying to imitate NY pizza just like the rest of the country?

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Does New York have many restaurants that serve Ohio Valley style pizza like Beto's in Pittsburgh?

Reply

[-]

GeorgePosada@reddit

Ohio Valley style? I had to look that up and it says you put the toppings on cold after the pizza is cooked? No we don’t have that in NYC. We have lunchables in all the grocery stores though

Reply

[-]

tangledbysnow@reddit

Several Detroit style ones actually. And nationally known places too. Most of what we have is tavern or more St. Louis style. However, we have a Williamsburg Pizza (the owner of the Brooklyn locations is from Omaha - so we have a location here and the rest are in Brooklyn) that's pretty good. And that's where I think you went wrong - most of the country doesn't actually imitate NYC style. NYC is very very thin, flop disks with few toppings. Which is fine if you like that. I just like more crust. Most pizza in the country isn't actually trying to imitate NYC style and it is much thicker than that with a lot more toppings. And I like a thick crust. My favorite pizza joint is my local one from Colorado - BeauJo's. Thick bulbous crust that has nothing in common with NYC style other than calling it pizza.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I've had shitty pizza everywhere in america. New York has more really, really good places than most cities, but it's not like those are on every corner. The best pizza in NYC is in random areas like Bensonhurst or Ditmars or that weird Italian part of the Bronx that isn't Arthur Avenue (it's somewhere near city island I forget the name)

Reply

[-]

BranchBarkLeaf@reddit

>*It’s not about the water or anything like that.* That was the point. It’s *not* about the water. It’s about technique or something else. The magical water notion is silly.

Reply

[-]

voteblue18@reddit

I’m a New Yorker, now living in North Jersey and unless you go really high end (which are few and far between) the average Chinese takeout sucks in comparison to that of 15-20 years ago. I’ve also had Chinese in other states and it’s the same crap. I don’t even bother anymore, if I want Asian takeout I’m going for Thai.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

I mean going with Thai is obviously the best option. And come on. I’ve had plenty of your Chinese in the city at recommended places. It’s the same stuff I can get pretty much anywhere. I have lived among you and spied on your ways. There’s nothing particularly grand about your offerings unless you get high end.

Reply

[-]

AmadeusFlow@reddit

I don't doubt you but last time I was in Miami I couldn't find good Chinese takeout to save my life. Near NYC its more like pizza... even the shitty places are decent enough.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

As they say pizza is like sex, even if it ain’t great it’s still pretty good. I’ll extend that to Chinese food unless it has goddamn water chestnuts in it. Don’t know exactly why I hate them but that’s bad sex.

Reply

[-]

HuckleberrySpy@reddit

I had some Chinese food in Birmingham, Alabama that was pretty bad.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

You just went to the wrong place or ordered the wrong thing.

Reply

[-]

HuckleberrySpy@reddit

Probably. I was just there for a few days for work and don't know the area at all. This place was recommended by the client, who was a local, though.

Reply

[-]

bundyratbagpuss@reddit

Yep. They went to Birmingham, Alabama and ordered the Chinese food.

Reply

[-]

MizzGee@reddit

I feel like you can go to any college town and get decent Chinese food.

Reply

[-]

r21md@reddit

Some states have worse Chinese food (the absolute worse I ever had was in Utah) but the West Coast I'd say is the same quality as NYC.

Reply

[-]

MasterJunket234@reddit

I would've thought they meant either NY Chinatown quality restaurant and not some neighborhood takeaway.

Reply

[-]

Aggressive_FIamingo@reddit

I lived on Long Island for 3 years (this was like a decade ago, so things may have changed) and the Chinese food there was SO good. It was just standard Americanized Chinese food, but for whatever reason it was so much better than any other Chinese food I've ever had. There was this one sketchy place I used to get lunch from regularly because they were super cheap, and they made their own hot mustard in house.

Reply

[-]

23onAugust12th@reddit

I’m originally from Long Island but living in Florida for a couple of years now. The Chinese food here SUCKS compared to back home.

Reply

[-]

GeorgePosada@reddit

I’ve found good Chinese takeout near me in the suburbs but I had to try like six or seven different places first

Reply

[-]

CheesecakeWaste9279@reddit

Duck sauce! It’s an East Coast thing and you cannot find it in California

Reply

[-]

doubtinggull@reddit

Woah, really? What do they put on their egg rolls in CA?

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Sweet and sour sauce, generally, although plenty of places here have duck sauce

Reply

[-]

CheesecakeWaste9279@reddit

It is absolutely not the same as the East Coast. The East Coast product is not available on the West Coast.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I can literally buy duck sauce from 3 different brands at Ralphs

Reply

[-]

CheesecakeWaste9279@reddit

NOTHING

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

I have had it in California. May have been just a couple times but it exists.

Reply

[-]

SawgrassSteve@reddit

I can't tell you what the difference is between New York style Chinese and other styles. But the Chinese food I had there was better than in most other places. My take. San Francisco and New York are s tier for Chinese food in the US. Other cities are very good too. There are large parts of the country where Chinese food is ordinary and some parts that are generally bad. (Ohio, Indiana, Illinois- excluding the Chicago area, Kentucky, parts of Florida). As much as I hate to admit it, fresh New York bagels are better than bagels I have had in other parts of the US. And yes, New Yorkers can be food snobs, and sometimes dismissive of the rest of the country when it comes to food. But no one from Brooklyn has ever steered me wrong on a restaurant.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I am highly skeptical about most claims new Yorkers make about their food, but they are untouchable when it comes to bagels. No other city has their shit together on bagels like NY.

Reply

[-]

SunsetBain@reddit

My experience as someone who has family from NYC is that fried rice just isn't as fried or as dark anywhere else. It's actually *brown* in NYC, and you just see maybe a very pale tan at most other places. There are also a few other NYC traditions that aren't widely seen elsewhere, like how a lot of restaurants there will give you, for free, a plate of fried wonton strips and duck sauce to dip them in, the same way Tex-Mex restaurants give you chips and salsa. And this is more a habit of the diners than the restaurants, but New Yorkers also love to stir large amounts of duck sauce into their fried rice.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I've heard conflicting things about the rice. Some say NY Chinese fried rice HAS to be yellow, others say yellow rice is a sign that the rice is stale/too greasy/restaurant is bad

Reply

[-]

stiletto929@reddit

Same thing with New York pizza, lol.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

The big floppy dick pizza?

Reply

[-]

Captain_Depth@reddit

lmao, I'm always glad I live upstate when it comes to pizza because I really don't like giant thin slices from NYC. I will forever be a Utica tomato pie defender

Reply

[-]

TastyBrainMeats@reddit

I thought tomato pie was a Jersey thing?

Reply

[-]

Captain_Depth@reddit

it could also be, but there is a Utica particular one

Reply

[-]

TastyBrainMeats@reddit

I'll have to try it!

Reply

[-]

TillPsychological351@reddit

Is this like "New York pizza", which by most people'a definition, is just pizza?

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Eh, no, there’s a lot of different standards depending on where you are. Greek style is the standard here, down south in New England it’s more likely New Haven style or maybe New York, in the Midwest you have Detroit but much more likely tavern style.

Reply

[-]

osteologation@reddit

i live not far from detroit. detroit style can only be had from the chains that started in detroit the local places just do a generic deep dish. no one round here really does tavern a style outside of pizza hut though most have a thin crust option and you could request square cut. link i posted is a regular pizza at a local place. and what i would expect from anywhere unless i specified a different style. this style is what everyone orders. you go to a party and they are serving pizza this is what you'd expect to see. [https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4FWQfHfSzOhawv0L3iJBhWbTEPwWva7hSAqe7jnirJXj-Cvr5KOTRrKx8axvfcCYDnj7-hFi9weTu4\_BNQ](https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/4FWQfHfSzOhawv0L3iJBhWbTEPwWva7hSAqe7jnirJXj-Cvr5KOTRrKx8axvfcCYDnj7-hFi9weTu4_BNQ)

Reply

[-]

ucbiker@reddit

No, New York pizza is definitely a style and probably not even what most people eat by default since it’s not the standard style for the big takeout/delivery chains.

Reply

[-]

YourFutureExWifeHere@reddit

My dad has worked as a line cook in these Chinese take out places in both NYC and West Virginia, so you’re right. He’s technically making the same food. I think the biggest difference is how populated NYC is in comparison to other cities which gives way for way more options. There are dozens of different takeout places in NYC and they are all relatively close to each other. If I don’t like something, I’m not limited to the Chinese food at the food court at some old strip mall like I would be in WV.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

I was going to mention that exact thing. In NYC you have maybe a half dozen places within a short walk. You can find the best one. Here in ruralish Maine I have a few within a 20 minute drive. One of my buddies was a Chinese line cook too. He said basically the same thing. He made the same stuff in the same way as he did in Cleveland and Chicago. The other piece of advice he gave was ask what’s best. Asian places tend to cook 200 dishes and side dishes but if you ask then you’ll probably find something they like making and are good at. I think he phrased it “there’s 200 options and 5 will be excellent the rest is ok.”

Reply

[-]

machuitzil@reddit

I imagine it's a bit like "Chifa" in Peru. Chifa is a proud Peruvian heritage, they love that shit. It's Peruanized Chinese food, its fusion with History, and it's finger licking good, but I never quite noticed the difference between American Chinese food and Peruvian Chinese food. It's all just westernized Chinese food. The best Chinese food I ever had was when I went to the restaurant my Chinese friend's parents owned and we could order off the "secret menu". Even if I didn't like some of it, I loved it because it was not anything I'd ever had before. -not the ingredients, just the textures, the preparation, it caters to a very different pallet.

Reply

[-]

CupBeEmpty@reddit

Yeah when my wife was in grad school we’d go to dinner at a Chinese place with Chinese grad students. They’d order off the Chinese menu and all us English speakers would just say ok. I’m only pissed that there were some dishes that were awesome but I don’t know how to order them.

Reply

[-]

Revolutionary-Ad3648@reddit

I've lived on both coasts for long periods of time, but I've only visited NYC several times. When traveling from Hampton Roads, I'd sometimes take the very afforadable, often chaotic, Chinatown Bus up the 95 for a fun, affordable weekend. The buses were full of folks from all over China with different backgrounds and cultures. There was always at least one chicken, sometimes ducks on the bus. It was the cheapest and easiest way to get to NYC that I knew of, and I enjoyed it! I have always loved Chinatown in NYC. The bricka bracka, the knock-offs, the neons, the people, and the food! I feel it has tried modeling itself as Little Italy to offer more sit-down, Americanized grubs and service. Its Peking Duck is better than anywhere else in the States that I've tried it, but it's not cheap in my memories. All along the East Coast, pop-up mom n pop Chinese spots have done different things. They're more delivery/pick up. Many used to have lunch buffets pre-covid. It was an easy, affordable, 'not major fast food chain' meal for lunch or dinner. And I have missed them. I am one to say, 'West Coast Chinese Grub' is not the same as what we had on the East. Panda Express was not a widespread chain on the East Coast when i lived out there, probably because of the above-mentioned mom n pops? I came to the West Coast 8 years ago, and I am not a fan of many Chinese restaurants out here. The carts, the scissors, the gravies are too much for me. I don't like the rice... it's not Jasmine or Italian.... idk what it is, but it ain't right, imo. We visited SanFran for a long weekend, and I told our hosts I wanted to visit Chinatown during the visit. They were not enthused, so I made plans for me and mine to go one afternoon without our hosts/guides. What a different vibe than NYC's CT!! Wow! Once we arrived, we looked out of place and a bit lost, and it was very busy... so an elderly man engaged. He asked us if we were there for Chinese New Year, but I explained why I had wanted to see SF CT. He offered to take us to find the best Peking Duck in the whole neighborhood. He brought us by the Bronze Immigrant Map that's in an alley, the OG Fortune Cookie Factory (amazing smells!), and guided us thru the sea of foot-traffic getting their chores done (while dodging asshole traffic cops!) This man brought us all over the hood, brought us to the 'best' spots, and shielded us from locals. He ordered our grub in Cantonese from 3 spots, and we ate it all in the 3rd spot. No one gave us a pleasant look. We were outsiders. The elderly man was awesome, but he was hustling for the change from each purchase, which we did not dispute at all... we felt forunate. He asked us to guess his name, and he said it was the most famous name in China... I cannot remember our guesses, but he said his name was Jackie Chan... a 70's-year-old retired high school physics teacher that told me dog meat is the best meat he's ever tasted (maybe for a ruse, but I just nodded). At this point, I was worrying about our kidney(s)... The food was meh. Actually, it's was worse than Panda Express. I will never try to return to SF Chinatown, and I bet its residents will appreciate that. I've tried the Oldest Operating Restaurant in San Diego (which was Chinese), and I'm happy they're closed now... it was gross. I tried my hood's 'best Chinese', and it was also gross. China is big... I would expect many different types of grubs. It is old... I would expect many different types of grubs. Immigrants from there have been here a long time... I would expect many different types of grubs. The States are *also* big... I would expect many different types of grubs. Because of the above, while wanting Asian flavors and living on the West Coast meowadays, I've fallen for Ramen (which the East Coast doesn't know how to do at all). And, more Thai! TL:DR: Chinese food sucks on the West Coast. Folks that feel that way should try Ramen or Thai. Sushi and Seafood in general, suck out here, too!

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

It is possible the guy had a deal with the restaurants, I would not usually recommend this course of action when visiting any city, I have seen these types of people all over the world, from Tokyo, Japan to Lima, Peru. I don't think you should take this experience as indicative of SF Chinatown as a whole. I would be interested to know what places you visited. Did you try Hang Ah Tea Room, Good Mong Kok Bakery, Yank Sing, House of Nanking, Sam Wo, or Hon's Wun Tun? Those are the major places that come to my mind in SFCT. If you dislike Chinese food on the West coast, I don't think you have been very lucky finding the actually good places. We have some of the best in the country, with our only serious competition being NYC and MAYBE Seattle. But overall Seattle in my mind is more synonymous with Japanese food. Like, leaving Americanized Chinese food out of the conversation for a moment, Chinese food in San Gabriel is the best in the whole country, I can say with total confidence.

Reply

[-]

InformallyGuavaCado@reddit

Maybe a Spanish infused Chinese restaurant. Where they serve tacos, with Chinese food choices, in a hole in the wall looking place. Usually the best kind.

Reply

[-]

JohnMarstonSucks@reddit

I know it needs to have MSG and a lot of oil used. Most Chinese food I've found in other states are too healthy and the elements of a dish are too separate, almost like at a salad where you can identify more of the individual ingredients. It also needs to have a scooter parked out front that is held together with duct tape for deliveries.

Reply

[-]

gugudan@reddit

Plain white rice with mouse droppings and cockroaches

Reply

[-]

igotthatbunny@reddit

Check out this [post](https://www.reddit.com/r/FoodLosAngeles/s/xAtzl7iilA). People talk a lot about the differences, with this one specifically focusing on how east coast style sweet and sour chicken basically cannot be found anywhere on the west coast.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I have had something similar out here, but only in Korean-Chinese places. It's called tangsuyuk, and depending on the place it either comes with a more vegetable based sauce or that bright red sauce in the image you linked.

Reply

[-]

NoHedgehog252@reddit

Super sweet foods loosely based on Chinese cuisine.

Reply

[-]

TheJokersChild@reddit

Watch The Search For General Tso and you'll get a pretty good idea.

Reply

[-]

seatownquilt-N-plant@reddit

I am also on the west coast. I have heard of chow mein vs lo mein difference. Extremely similar dishes but chow mein noodles are fried and low mein noodles are not fried. chow mein on the west coast, lo mein on the east coast

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

That's interesting, I've had both dishes on both coasts. But I guess lo mein is slightly more often mentioned among New Yorkers. As an aside, you can tell a good Chinese spot from a bad one depending on whether they try to pass off spaghetti noodles as lo mein.

Reply

[-]

seatownquilt-N-plant@reddit

These places don't really have websites and we can't use Google Maps generated links. But these are some no frills quick Chinese food places in Seattle and none of them have lo mein. I think you'd have to sift through a bunch to find it Chiang's Gourmet Mandarin Gate - they have one google photo of their menu New China Express Lucky Chinese Restaurant - google photos of menu

Reply

[-]

deleted_by_reddit@reddit

[removed]

Reply

[-]

AutoModerator@reddit

The use of URL shorteners on this subreddit is prohibited. Please repost your link without the use of a url shortener *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/AskAnAmerican) if you have any questions or concerns.*

Reply

[-]

Ravenclaw79@reddit

I wouldn’t know what they mean, either: NYC has plenty of completely authentic Chinese food, and also plenty of Americanized Chinese food. It’s impossible to know which they mean.

Reply

[-]

No_Name_Necessary@reddit

I wonder if it’s an old school concept that doesn’t really apply anymore. Like General Tso’s chicken is supposedly originally New York, but now that stuff is everywhere?

Reply

[-]

webbess1@reddit

Everyone here is talking about Chinatown in Manhattan. That's their mistake. The real Chinese food is in Flushing, Queen. It's the best, most authentic Chinese food you'll find anywhere in the US.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I love Flushing, but that's not what people mean when they talk about "New York Style Chinese." San Gabriel in LA also has an amazing variety of authentic regional Chinese food. When restaurant chains from China come to America, they often open two locations: one in Flushing, one in San Gabriel.

Reply

[-]

webbess1@reddit

I pretty much only eat in Flushing when I go for Chinese food. The only part of Chinatown in Manhattan that's good is Eldridge Street.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Respectfully disagree, Manhattan Chinatown has tons of amazing options if you aren't under the illusion that you're getting authentic regional Chinese. Wo Hop, Nom Wah, Big Wong, Mei Lai Wah, Deluxe Green Bo, Joe's Shanghai, all very very good, especially Wo Hop.

Reply

[-]

farson135@reddit

No idea. I went to Chinatown in NYC once and I tried to go to this one place called Wo Hop which people were raving about. I went in and it was ok. I walked out, decided to walk around the block and right next to the resturant I walked out of was ... Wo Hop. For whatever reason they had two resturants with the same name right next to each other. I tried the other place later on, and it was ok. I'm from Texas, and I was not impressed by the food in Chinatown NYC. And I can't imagine LA would be short of good Chinese food.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

The first Wo Hop is very small and has long wait times, so they opened a second one. The food is the same. Wo Hop is actually one of my favorite Chinese restaurants anywhere, I'll go to bat for them any day. But I certainly can't say that they're representative of the quality of Chinese food in the city as a whole.

Reply

[-]

farson135@reddit

The greeter outside said they were completely different restaurants, but I'll take your word for it. Maybe we didn't try their best dishes, but I'll put up my local Chinese place. At the very least, their spicy food is worthy of the term.

Reply

[-]

hitometootoo@reddit

Don't really know how to describe it but it is the best American Chinese food I've ever had. The flavor is bursting, it's seasoned perfectly and it's more crispy vs more wet that I've had from other areas.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Where in New York did you eat? I've gotten takeout from about a dozen places in Brooklyn over the years and it was all extremely mid

Reply

[-]

hitometootoo@reddit

Mostly ChinaTown and the Bronx.

Reply

[-]

Sir_Sir_ExcuseMe_Sir@reddit

I still haven't quite figured this one out, but it's advertised in Florida sometimes. It definitely signifies that it's Americanized Chinese food, not traditional. Mostly the influence is Cantonese. It might mean that it's a takeout restaurant, with little if any seating. In terms of cuisine, I don't think it's that different than other American Chinese food, at least for most (or, at least for the East Coast). Apparently the egg rolls are also thicker, more deep fried? But I'm not sure.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

I've had the thick egg rolls at Nom Wah in Chinatown, they are legitimately very good, but they don't seem all that common at most places in the city. Most places use the same frozen, Sysco-provided egg rolls available nationwide.

Reply

[-]

SanchosaurusRex@reddit

They’re always looking for General Tso’s chicken, from what I can gather.

Reply

[-]

Easy_Potential2882@reddit (OP)

Is it because it's available everywhere? Because availability/variety isn't something I can really point someone in the direction of. Is it a style, or a set of dishes? Because there's Americanized Chinese food everywhere, and I haven't seen anything on the menus of New York Chinese takeout places that I couldn't find back in California. Is it quality? Granted the food in Chinatown and Flushing is very good, but I don't think that level of quality is evenly distributed throughout most of the city. Are they talking about authentic, regional Chinese? Because we have the same kind of thing back in LA in the San Gabriel Valley. Is it some ineffable quality that makes a Chinese place approximate the one in the Chinese Restaurant episode of Seinfeld? Because if that place were real, i feel like no one would still be going there in 2024 (and that restaurant was inspired by one Larry David went to in LA, anyway). So what is New York Chinese food, exactly?

Reply