Free Speech alternative?
Posted by Moleventions@reddit | RedditAlternatives | View on Reddit | 46 comments
I'm tired of moderators being buzz kills.
Is there a place where everything is permitted as long as the content isn't explicitly illegal?
Moleventions@reddit (OP)
Why would "Free Speech alternative" be downvoted here??
evangelion-unit-two@reddit
Free speech is good; the problem is that in practical application, people who end up getting banned from reddit and raving about free speech tend to be far right lunatics since that's the most common reason for getting banned for political speech on reddit.
Moleventions@reddit (OP)
Do you find it a little odd that Reddit permits left-wing lunatics and even promotes their content to the front page by default?
sanglesort@reddit
I can assure you that there are zero left-wingers on the front page; like what you're calling "left wing" is like probably only as far left as the US Democratic Party (who aren't that left in the grand scheme of things)
Moleventions@reddit (OP)
Ahem, r/antiwork is a default sub.
slackinpotato@reddit
damn, workers rights are more frightening to Republicans than Mexicans, apparently.
AlverinMoon@reddit
Workers rights?? Do you means workers rights to not work? Lmfao. Its called antiwork not "Workers Union" or "workersrights"
Rust-CAS@reddit
It's literally an anarchist propaganda subreddit, you can see posts of the moderators alternately overjoyed and whining about the subreddit growing so much (overjoyed because they had a larger audience, whining because that audience was more interested in harvesting pity than promoting anarchism). Of course I left it once it changed from an entertaining mental asylum to sympathy-farming, so I'm not sure what they are up to now but despite the laundered alt-right propaganda I'm fairly certain it's still mainly left-wing.
There are also subs like WhitePeopleTwitter, which are just random populist propaganda posts.
Left-wing can be easily defined as more than just "Stalin Rad". (But if you are an actual leftist, anything short of destroying the state is probably fascism.)
slackinpotato@reddit
Republicans coping hard since theDonald was banned.
Rust-CAS@reddit
Positions like ACAB/Abolish Police are not mainstream in the US even among the Democratic Party (see Joe Biden, Eric Adams etc), and it's not mainstream worldwide either (like say Germany. . .). Yet that's the popular position on Reddit. There are numerous other examples of fringe left-wing propaganda, that is popular here.
There are tons of examples of how Reddit is more extreme than mainstream liberalism, in the US or globally. The fact that you are willfully ignorant of it is nobody elses responsibility.
Early-Owl-3448@reddit
No one believes your gaslighting anymore
evangelion-unit-two@reddit
Like what?
makeit234@reddit
I'm a leftist who's posts got banned.
Yesterday, I got my post removed for asking where a place is in a subreddit where you ask about where a place is.
Today my post got at 200+ upvote post removed for talking about my fears of nuclear war in a literal war/defense subreddit during this climate with Iran. After like 12 hours, some moderator determined it was "low effort," even though it was well over 100+ words and sparked a conversation with hundreds of comments and replies.
A subreddit that I got created was "banned" for spam because I talked about political content. I made a ticket on this, and reddit never got back to me (it was pro-palestine, though anti-hamas, and critical of both Kamala and Trump, though clearly cheering for Kamala over Trump). The reason of removal was "spam," probably because I, myself, posted a new topic on it every day? Never got an explanation for the subreddit being banned.
Your critique of free speech except for conservatives is backfiring.
Individual-Light-784@reddit
oh please
i just wanted to voice my discontent for pizzacakes comics, because they get spammed on the comics sub. then I noticed the thread was pseudo-locked. only "known participants" or some shit like that were allowed to comment.
literally gonna make me deinstall reddit.
ZealousidealDelay962@reddit
you are so misinformed it isn't even funny.
reddit is HIGHLY censored and insular you can't share an independent thought without filtering/censoring it goes WAAAY BEYOND politics.
FreeSpeechFFSOK@reddit
Not quite sure how you measured that.
The only clear knowledge I have of reasons for being banned are the times I was banned and lies told to me to excuse the fact. Half the time they deleted the post they claim got me banned, and I can't always remember its content exactly.
So even if you had a list from the admins of banned people complete with their "reasons", you won't have the actual content half the time to judge so you wind up taking the word of known liars and agenda pushers for the decisions they made.
EpsilonRose@reddit
A complete lack of moderation doesn't result in "free speech," but rather the most toxic speech crowding everything else out.
Adeptus_Gedeon@reddit
Free speech = toxic speech. If You can;t say/write things that other people don't like, it is not free speech.
EpsilonRose@reddit
A) The paradox of tolerance is not a new concept.
B) Saying whatever you want, without consequence, is not a privilege you'd expect anywhere else—go to a nice bar and start shouting racist slurs at the other patrons, see how long it takes before you're told to leave—why do you think it's reasonable to demand it online?
asscatchersupreme@reddit
Maybe because you’re not creating a disturbance in a privately owned business establishment with paying customers? How stupid do you have to be to think that’s even remotely similar to typing what you want on an online forum.
Adeptus_Gedeon@reddit
I am not demanding it. Owner of the medium have right to decide what content he want to be published in his medium. It doesn't change fact that I want places where it would be allowed to say truly freely. Including offending each other.
EpsilonRose@reddit
And yet most people would consider themselves capable of free speech inside that bar that kicks out racists yelling slurs.
Like I said, the paradox of tolerance is not a new concept. Letting people say whatever they want quickly leads to the extinction of free speech as toxic behavior both attracts more toxic behavior and drives out non-toxic participants. I mean, it's not like you'd expect many Jewish posters on a Nazi forum or LGBTQ posters on a forum full of people who advocate for conversion therapy or trans genocide, right? Allowing those behaviors excludes broad swaths of participants and speech.
Rust-CAS@reddit
The fact that certain language makes people uncomfortable, does not make the expression of that language censorship of the others.
If you have a tv in a full living room and watch a gory medical operation, the fact that other people left is not suppressing their rights.
Or even more mildly, is a community that only talks about cars, despite not being themed, suppressing the voice of people who don't want to talk about cars? Are you supposed to ban car-talk to make others comfortable?
There isn't any extinction of free speech if you feel uncomfortable talking about a subject. Your discomfort is a personal matter. There is nothing stopping a Jewish person from talking on a Nazi forum (assuming that free speech is in play), other than the fact that they may not like the interaction. (Some people love having hostile interactions. I for one used to regularly argue on StormFront and Identity Evropa pages back in the day. What stopped me was actual denial of free speech, not people being mean. )
Adeptus_Gedeon@reddit
"And yet most people would consider themselves capable of free speech inside that bar that kicks out racists yelling slurs"
And I disagree with most people.
Letting people say whatever they want quickly leads to the extinction of
free speech as toxic behavior both attracts more toxic behavior and
drives out non-toxic participants. I mean, it's not like you'd expect
many Jewish posters on a Nazi forum or LGBTQ posters on a forum full of
people who advocate for conversion therapy or trans genocide, right?
Allowing those behaviors excludes broad swaths of participants and
speech."
I don't see any extinction of free speech here. Quite the contrary. Deciding that You don't want to participate in discussion You consider toxic is part of the freedom. But You should have choice if You want to do it or no. If You don't have this choice, there is no freedom.
"LGBTQ posters on a forum full of people who advocate for conversion therapy"
So we should never discuss this because some people don't want to participate in such discussion (altough I don't think that all LGBT people are so closed minded)? What else? Using this logic, LGBT forums should not exist too, because they exclude broad swaths of participants (like followers of many religions)?
FreeSpeechFFSOK@reddit
You wind up with something like 4-chan.
Moderation is needed and will never be perfect, but better rules and oversight could bridge the gap being chaotic slum and hyper-regimented gulag.
OdoWanKenobi@reddit
Because generally when people cry about "free speech" what they really mean is "I want to be able to say the most toxic, hateful, disgusting trash that I can, and suffer no social consequences for it."
NegroOvTheYear@reddit
Rape Is funny if you have an advanced sense of humor. what happened to respecting eachother’s opinions
firebreathingbunny@reddit
Top-down censorship is not a social consequences. It is authoritarian oppression.
TheoryOfTheInternet@reddit
It's simple. This is Reddit in 2023. Most who care about free speech have left or greatly cut back their use if websites like Reddit. Speaking only for myself, I'm relatively "internet homeless" at the moment.
Ruqqus in 2020 seemed like it had potential, but then it flipped out and went authoritarian.
pnamepname@reddit
Reddit flipped way earlier I think 2015/16, before that it was somewhat free speech friendly. You had idiots, Nazis and racists or whatever but they just stayed in their little shadowy corners. In general you could say and do whatever and the community votes would do their job, but then it got cleaned up for advertisers and subs started to be taken over by power mods with ulterior motives pushing narratives etc.
TheoryOfTheInternet@reddit
The Elen Pao incident I think was in 2014. While some might say "we won" what actually happened is Reddit-owners realized they couldn't be so overt and forceful with pushing their political agenda, and instead needed to slow-boil the frog.
The Reddit Admins installed those activist mods, and bullied/annoyed/banned/etc all the mods who didn't fit their political agenda.
I don't think the 2015-to-now censorship has anything to do with advertisers. Most advertisers don't actually care, they just want eyeballs and to sell products. They may pretend to care when someone creates a giant news-story or scandal, but they all come back once it dies down.
That said, for my own project, I intend to regulate advertisement to the last-priority for monetization. Free users will see ads, sure, but a few $/month, or use an ad-blocker if you don't want to see the relatively small number of ads.
pnamepname@reddit
You might be right, 2014 ish, basically around the Pao time, a little before. The activist mods/users made a fuss about unsavoury content and it was amplified by certain segments of media, bad press made Reddit start on their journey censoring and changing (I would have guess due to losing potential advertisers, or money in some way, or it could just be that admins and higher ups who recently joined Reddit at that time were aligned with the activists)
TheoryOfTheInternet@reddit
Right, and Reddit made a choice to partner with those activists, despite those activists blatantly breaking Reddit's rules around brigading, harassing, etc. Some people Watch Reddit Die had a very detailed breakdown of the history.
IMO, no to the first-half, definitely yes the second-half.
Oh yeah, I just did the math, it really has been about 9 years since then. I used to avoid politics like the plague, which is in large part why I didn't see it coming until it went into overdrive in 2020.
I think so as well. In subsequent years, I've seen several of the people who know the history much better than myself, point out that Pao herself was actually far less extreme than what Reddit actually ended up with. Also that Pao has criticized Reddit for going the authoritarian extreme in a few ways that bother her (whether she's authentic or not, I don't know).
Even back in 2008, I remember r Politics being extremely biased. I didn't know about that 2016 history, but it doesn't surprise me, I've seen similar coups in numerous other subreddits, where the admins are often directly involved.
BobQuasit@reddit
Have you tried Dreamwidth? They're pretty good.
Personally I've kind of given up and am just posting on one of my blogs that no one ever reads. I guess the only way I can have free speech is if I'm only talking to myself.
DualKoo@reddit
facts.
Mapkar@reddit
You could always host a BBS and let others know about them!
Few_Ad_5257@reddit
What I want in a free-speech alternative to Reddit:
No paywalling
No 6-month archiving! I am sick of this. I will be Googling something and then Reddit be the only result, all of a sudden it's archived.
Discussions be opened indefinitely.
Zero-censorship.
No communism-type rules. For example: "No inviting", "Secure only", "No advertising", "No swearing", "Civility", "No links to pirated sites".
More soft on rules except withing legal requirements like no death threats.
igniarius@reddit
Isn't it sad TrU, fr E speech has been f8k since the 90s
maybesaydie@reddit
Too bad you missed voat.
Moleventions@reddit (OP)
It was pretty good, but then it died in late 2020.
The only problem was each community was rather insulated from all of the rest.
TAEHSAEN@reddit
How did Voat die?
Moleventions@reddit (OP)
Ran out of money :(
DylanMc6@reddit
Here's an alternative that fits your needs: GOING OUTSIDE AND TOUCHING GRASS.
Not being rude, just saying.
pnamepname@reddit
There was ruqqus, but that got killed from inside.
I wonder if the ruqqus admins are kicking themselves now imagining what could have been, they were the only site that had true potential IMO, were growing, UI and name were nice, they were just dumb as hell in regards to dealing with trolls and got taken for fools but that Carpathian loser who tried making their own site after killing off ruqqus.
textuist@reddit
gee aigh bee dot com might be one
bluedwarf.top is small and has few rules but is very minimalistic
exploding-heads.com is pretty lax on the lemmyverse
scored.co is pretty lax as a reddit clone of sorts
discussions dot app still exists but is basically a zombie
check the sticky for a few more maybe?
WRB852@reddit
I've been using mainchan.com
Not a lot of users, but the website itself is clean and works well. I think it shows real potential if enough decent users would sign up.