The full term would be “Huevos Revueltos”. But if your at a Mexican restaurant and said revueltos the would assume the Huevos part. Kinda like just saying scrambled at a breakfast place, they’ll know what’s up. So now if I go to a car dealership and say “Revuelto” they’ll bring me a Lamborghini
Frustrating that you have to go to multi hundred thousand dollar cars to get high redlines now. Honda used to do it for ~$60k adjusted for inflation. Partially blame regulations and partially blame enthusiasts for being torque whores.
You can get 8500+ out of a 20 year old 4.8L LS with nothing but cam/lifters/spring upgrade and be faster than 99% if cars on the road no matter what you put it in. Everything else is vanity.
I would.
LS motors can go around corners too.
Hp and Tq are just measurements of force applied.
It’s just math.
If one widget can create the necessary force for less money and less complications, why would you search out a more expensive and complex alternative if not for vanity?
They can go around corners, but it takes more driver skill/expertise to fully take advantage of the power and put it to the ground.
I like LS motors, but they feel heavy and unpredictable compared to something snappier with an ultra flat torque curve… the C8 Z06 comes to mind.
Lmao bruh wut? 🤯🤦♂️. The LS can easily make +-25 ft lbs from 2500 to almost 6k rpms. Find me another motor with a flatter torque curve and a better power to weight ratio.
Where do you people come up with this nonsense and then say it so confidently?
Doesn’t answer the question.
You said heavy and unpredictable compared to something with a flat torque curve.
Absolute nonsense.
LS weighs 400lbs with all accessories, makes more than 1hp per lb and has an ultra flat torque curve.
Unless you can present evidence I’ll assume you’re attempting to regurgitate nonsense you read on the internet with zero real world experience.
Lol I’m not some keyboard warrior trying to prove the power to weight ratio of a single cam engine. Talk about a straw man argument 😉. My real world experience comes from owning multiple BMW V8s, including two S65s and a S85 V10. I’d ask which engines you’ve owned, but I don’t really care.
The LS motors feel unrefined and sloppy compared to dual cam engines (if you’re old enough to drive?). Enjoy the chop if they’re your thing, I’m done dude.
Lol you said Ls motors don’t have a flat torque curve. It’s flat out wrong.
Your experience with bmw motors is not relevant. It’s also silly because everyone knows they’re shit. Who wants to be swapping main bearings constantly?
But I think I’ve drawn enough out of you for any following readers to be able to understand you are talking out your butt. Good enough for me. 👍
*If one widget can create the necessary force for less money and less complications, why would you search out a more expensive and complex alternative if not for vanity?*
If your reasoning applied to all cars, we'd all be driving gray Corollas.
Back to the straw man. We’re talking about engines. I know cars seem similar to you but it’s not the same discussion. I said necessary force. The person choosing the engine chooses what’s necessary for them.
Your argument about cars is irrelevant to a discussion about motors.
What you are engaging in is a logical fallacy called a straw man. “having the impression of refuting an argument, whereas the real subject of the argument was not addressed or refuted”
The real subject was motors, which you didn’t address. You started talking about cars and corollas.
You're right here, but you sound like you're reading a script from if The Big Bang Theory had a baby with Fast and Furious.
I say this as someone who owns a Sprinter Van, a Prius and a Yamaha R1 for track use only, so I get min-maxing and prioritizing. You're just being kind of an autistic boob right now.
I'm not the guy you were arguing with and my first three words were me telling you that you were right about the facts, but alright I guess. Keep on being oblivious to your own social actions if it makes you happy. If I was ever behaving like you I'd pray someone told me, even if I was correct about the facts of the matter.
I don't understand the North American auto market. Everything has to be giant - pick up trucks to go to the mall, vehicles with solid axles never leaving city streets, SUVs the size of a building and sedans (if there are any left) the size of boats. Meanwhile there are things like suzuki cappuccino that are infinitely efficient and a riot at the same time.
There are no more light weight, small engined and correct wheel drive cars anymore (with the exception of miata). Who really needs a 500bhp daily driver that is essentially nothing more than a straight line rocket?
My daily is 3200 lbs and has a 1.6L engine. While it is wrong wheel drive, its not a pickup
And my Mustang is a great coupe that is pretty much unmatched for the price.
My friends group all have nicely sized sports cars that aren’t ridiculously sized in their garages that they regular: a couple Camaros, less than a handful of Golfs (GTI/R), an RS3, a handful of Mustangs, an ATS-V, and a few Miatas.
America is diverse.
SUVs are pushed heavily by marketing because CAFE emissions requirements lets companies make higher margins on them despite them going the opposite direction and being less energy efficient.
Europeans are already blaming the US for Europeans driving full size SUVs.
If the option is available, turns out a lot of people like bigger cars, trucks, SUVs.
This is so out of touch. People don’t go to malls anymore. The Suzuki Cappuccino hasn’t been manufactured in 25 years. Nobody bought the Camaro turbo 4 so that went away, and the eco boost Mustang still exists so there’s a pair of right wheel drive small engined cars that are home grown. The 230i still exists if you don’t want to spend M money. There’s the 86 and the Supra as well. Compact crossovers are getting more diverse and interesting by the year, like it or not that is the new compact hatch.
The only thing faster around a track for the money than the Mustang is a Camaro, by the way.
We’re doing alright.
Out of touch if correct. Reading your comment made me realize that mine was a bit of an unnecessary rant. There are some really good sets of wheels still out and being produced. I think my lament isn't misplaced but not everything I mentioned holds weight.
Thanks for the reality check 👍🏽
Modern American muscle/pony cars handle better around corners than many Japanese or European cars. They're legit track and canyon weapons, while being practical, affordable and safe enough to daily. I doubt that Capuccino would do well in a collision with a new F150
I have some theories about this.
1) America, compared to Europe & Japan, has *very* long highways that also go *very* fast. Not only does the car need to be able to merge up to 70-80mph in adequate time but also *maintain* 70-80mph for long periods. Small cars with low power, short gearing are not designed for this high-speed American cruising.
2) Safety. Again, due to high speeds I think most Americans are reluctant to buy ultra-small, unsafe cars. Crashing a Suzuki Cappuccino in USA vs Japan probably have different average speeds of crash. Higher crash speed = more chance of injury or death.
3) Cost of fuel. Even though Americans complained about rising fuel prices during the early stages of Russian invasion of Ukraine, the prices are still relatively low. Many countries with smaller average salary have *higher* fuel prices. For this reason, Americans are not cost-conscious of fuel prices and therefore easily buy a gas-guzzling vehicle.
4) Cost of registration. In many European countries, they tax engine displacements above 2-liters. Owning a 5.3-liter Chevrolet Tahoe or 6.0-liter Hummer H2 may cost *thousands of dollars* per year just to register, whereas in USA it's mainly calculated based on selling price, and registration fees can be only a couple hundred dollars. This is why many Europeans drive engines from 1.1 to 1.9 liters in size.
5) Waste. It's no secret that America is one of the most energy-consuming countries. Married couples with two kids justify buying an SUV, whereas the same family in Europe would buy a Volvo XC70 or Volkswagen Passat Wagon & achieve the same results (two car seats in back seats and stroller/sportsbag in trunk). Especially in wealthier parts of America, families own a body-on-frame pickup, an SUV, a travel trailer, etc. Shopping outlets in USA are huge. Bathroom stalls are huge. Because USA is blessed geographically, zoning laws pretty much *mandate* huge spaces. A lot of it is unnecessary, and just a waste of resources.
We're also heavier and the average height is 5ft 10. In addition to this because things in the US are so spread out. Americans end up hauling more things longer distances.
When I was in Germany a grocery store was a two block walk away. Most populated places in America, the nearest store is at least 5-10 miles away. For the remainder of the country, I'd argue it was 30-60 miles away. This means when you go to the store, you go fewer times and haul more things.
That's just the grocery store. In the US people often drive large distances to do outdoors things as well. Really, we just haul stuff a lot further than folks in Europe. So we buy bigger vehicles for that 10% of the time when we need to haul something a large distance to avoid two trips.
That is also a great point, the infrastructure in USA is car-centric. There is no "walking across the street real quick to buy another liter of milk for these pancakes that I'm in progress of making". The same task is 30-90 minutes in [car-centric parts of] USA.
The speed on american highways isnt higher or much higher than in Europe, France has 130km/h everywhere which is 80mph, and french manufacturers make some funny rickety small engines for the cars
It's just that regulations allow for massive engines and massive cars (especially the CAFE) so manufacturers make them
Except those 500bhp daily driver "straight line rockets" often end up being more capable around a track than the lightweights of the world, in the hands of anyone remotely capable.
I completely agree. The only thing is how many people track their brand new M3, C63 or Giulia, or ISF or other such practical daily drivers? But everyone commutes and goes for a weekend drive...
Are you saying an M4 or Giulia or Mustang GT isn't faster around most tracks than a Miata? Because the actual posted lap times would like to have a word.
Small, light, cheap cars are great fun. No one is doubting that. Most of my cars historically have been small and light, from my multiple MR2s to my Mini to my current project, a '79 Prelude. But big power, heavy cars are faster. And not just in a straight line. And this has been true since the 90's.
What you’re describing is something mostly young people would buy, and young people just don’t have the buying power. We’ve had 40+ years of wage stagnation while cost of living keeps steadily going up, what do you expect? So all those young 20s that are listing after sports cars they read about in magazines or online aren’t going to get the chance to buy them when they’re stuck with student loans (if went to college) or generally unable to afford one. Add to that trying to save for a down payment on a house while housing costs are still going way up. It comes down to pure economics.
I don’t think young people were buying S2000s new. Now yes, back then it was roughly a 60k car. Ford had the GT350 rev to 8350 at 60-70k, so it’s doable.
That’s also part of the issue. Young people wanted the S2000 when it was new but couldn’t afford it so it didn’t sell well. I’d bet anything most buyers were mid-30s to mid-40s high earners looking for a weekend car. That’s not a big enough demographic to drive sales to any large numbers.
8600 Max?!? That's something new I've personally come to learn. 8300 is pretty dope as is, but man, 8600? Neat stuff! That beast must sound rightfully insane after some quality aftermarket headers among other tunes and "Mein Gott!"
I mean if one got enough money we do have V4R, revving 16,500rpm for 999cc. Well ofc you'll be reaching 100mph+ in the 1st gear to reach that rpm but at least it's not impossible!
Nah depends on the bike. I would handily say the new ZX-4RR is a sports bike.
CC aren’t the only thing that determine sports nature.
The new RC390 has more track goodies than a lot of serious sportsbikes even if it’s only a 390cc. Meanwhile, a lot of >600ccs don’t qualify - the 700cc twins are rarely good sportsbikes (with exceptions obviously). The ZX-4RR makes more power than the average 650-700cc sports bike, super sports discluded
One day a Chevy Silverado is going to have a smaller engine than a Honda Goldwing....
I'm now imaging a new 2034 Chevy Silverado with it's 1.5 liter Turbo 4 cylinder pulling up along side a 2034 Honda Goldwing and the Silverado trying to out rev the goldwing...
Not possible. The Revuelto uses the same 3-2-1 exhaust manifold layout as the Aventador (Essenza is 6-1). Some aftermarket companies like Brilliant offer 6-1 headers for the Aventador but fitting them requires engine out to install. With GPF filters and more electronics integration, I'm almost certain that a Revuelto wouldn't accept the same exhaust mod.
I stayed in Kensington for a few days about 10 years ago. It was at the end of a trip with my parents (first time our Ohio family had traveled abroad), and we stayed with my mom's old college roommate who was apparently pretty loaded.
On the cab ride to her flat, we saw an R8 and a Ferrari fly down the street past us, a street-parked Rolls Royce, and a street-parked Bugatti Veyron next to a Smart Car. The next day we saw an Aventador with a mirror-gold wrap drive past the cafe down the street. Then we flew home and drove back to our house in our trusty Saab 9-3 lol. It was crazy seeing how different of a lifestyle some people get to live.
Specs are nice.
Styling though, I'm not a huge fan. Countache -> Diablo -> Murcielago -> Aventador all seemed like major leaps design wise. This seems so reserved in comparison to those.
I'll never afford a lambo tho so my opinion doesn't matter.
Unpopular opinion, but I strongly prefer Miura/Diablo/Countache styling over Murci and Aventador styling personally. Nothing against those who disagree
Oh man, when they did that modem Muira concept way back when. I was hoping it would become a production vehicle but for some reason it never did.
The Diablo will always be my favourite. First gen with the popup headlights in Purple or Silver were my absolute favourites. I was born in 1990 so the Diablo was the one I grew up with.
The Murci I have a love/hate relationship with. Sometimes the proportions look weird in person. Kinda like it's a kit car. But in November I saw a Murci SV (with the manual) for the very first time and I absolutely loved it. https://imgur.com/SmMHjLJ.jpg
> This seems so reserved in comparison to those.
I think the aventador and those limited bespoke Lamborghinis were too over-styled and going back to a more clean/simple design is a good thing.
I disagree. For me, Lamborghini is about barely restrained automotive insanity. IMO, a Lamborghini should have wings and scoops and vents and wide tires etc. I like this new design, but I wish they had gone further with it.
This is just the first variant. Remember how the “base” Aventador looks compared with the SV, S, SVJ, etc. Lamborghini will have plenty of time to make this thing look even wilder, but from where I’m standing, it looks incredible already.
I'm sure you're not alone there. For me personally, Lambo is all about the craziness and aggressive styling. It's just something I expect from them and so far this is a let down.
But powertrain wise, this thing seems like it'll be a blast to drive. I can't wait for videos so I can hear this thing scream like a banshee at 9500rpms.
Same opinion on styling, but I have a feeling it could grow on me.
Regardless it doesn't really matter because I will never be able to afford a lambo neither.
Yea, the design changes between those generations seemed huge to me, like always ushering in a new era for Lamborghini. This looks like an updated Aventador rather than a whole new generation. But maybe more pics will tell a different story.
Manual transmissions are actually cheaper than both automatic and dual clutch transmissions. People will actually pay MORE for a manual transmission (see Porsche 911R) and they would make more profit if they offered a manual transmission. Doug Demuro actually just did a video on this.
On the performance side, DCTs are way faster at shifting and require less attention when going around a track (good for focusing on everything else).
On the economics side, developing two transmissions for a low volume manufacturer is too expensive. On cars that offered both, like the Audi R8 or the ferraris/lambos of the 2000s, the automated options sold much better than the manuals. A lot of older people also prefer automatics cause it's less physically exhausting (or don't know how to drive manual), and most younger people in the US and some other countries don't know how to drive manual.
I'm reminded of that one video of some arab shiekh or whatever literally *slapping* the paddles on his lamborghini. The typical owner barely knows how to drive *automatic*. Christ.
2 reasons mostly, manual transmissions did not sell well in the mid 2000s era up to the point where they stopped developing them, and they are very slow compared to an electronically controlled system.
Which is funny because at the time the Murceilago was considered kinda boring and plain looking, you had top gear saying they’d lost their soul cause it was the first car they made after being bought by VW.
This is why announcements like this don't do anything for me anymore. They're just not special.
When i was younger, the announcement of a supercar was huge because it was different, this is just more of the same.
Imagine if the Enzo had 15 "special" editions, or the Carerra GT had a bunch of special editions. They didn't, which is why they'll be remembered.
I never said they did. The person you replied to mentioned multiple Aventador based special models, to which you said there was only one. That's just wrong.
lol
[Invencible](https://i.imgur.com/XDQ2kxG.jpg), [Autentica](https://i.imgur.com/8XlKrGG.jpg), [Countach](https://i.imgur.com/fi1AbFf.jpg), [Essenza](https://i.imgur.com/v5emRa3.jpg), [Sian](https://i.imgur.com/nB7RtYl.jpg), [SC20](https://i.imgur.com/U9laWtu.jpg), [SC18](https://i.imgur.com/bukYEny.jpg), [Centenario](https://i.imgur.com/o7WEM0i.jpg), [Veneno](https://i.imgur.com/LW6k0w6.jpg). Lamborghini milked the Aventador as much as it possible could.
Not *all* of them teased the Revuelto, but the Sian, Autentica, Invencible, Centenario and Essenza all did.
My wording could he been clearer, I know they made plenty of special editions on the Aventador platform, but I'm talking about cars that very clearly were a precursor to the Revuelto, aka the Sian.
I think it's a massive stretch to say that all of those cars teased this, they're just using Lamborghini's updated design language. There are small aspects of a couple, like the rear lights of the Centenario, or the shape of the Invencible, but broadly the Sian is the only one that properly teases it in the same way the Reventon did.
I remember when the Huracan first came out, people thought it looked tamer than the end-state Gallardo. And then we saw the Huracan gain more and more aggressive looks. Same story with the Gallardo, Murcielago, and probably here too.
This isn't a detraction, because I like Lamborghinis, but damn if they don't all look the same to me. Yes some have 10% more angles, or different headlights. But otherwise they fall in with McClaren in terms of me never being able to tell you which model is which.
Aston Martin was the same until they started changing things up with the Valhalla/Valkyrie.
I honestly have no idea how people say all McLaren models look the same. You have the super series(570s, 600lt), the super series(720s, 765lt), the grand tourer with the GT, and the ultimate, like the Senna. Barring signature elements like lights they all have very different body lines.
Are people just comparing their previous generations with current? Because no shit those will look like evolutions more than completely new designs. McLarens look unmistakably like McLarens which is mostly thanks to recurring details. Porsche has this too, they sort of share very similar hoodlines and have a distinct lights signature that tells you it’s a Porsche.
> I honestly have no idea how people say all McLaren models look the same.
Really? before you knew all the models and special editions and series, did you also not think they looked similar?
Most people just don't care enough to study differences between models. That's why BMW is stuffing our faces with big ass grills so there's SOME delineation .
Na, all McLarens absolutely look the same to everyone except hardcore McLaren fans. I couldn't pick the 600lt, 720s, 765lt or the GT out of a line-up of McLarens if my life depended on it. The Senna looks a little different, and I guess the P1 looks a little different, but occasionally I don't even recognize those in a line-up of other cars. You're right, Porsche has the same issue which is 911s all look the same to Joe Public - whether it's a base model Carrera or a high trim GT3 Touring. I only know the difference since I'm into Porsches, but I don't care about McLaren so they all look the same to me. Ferrari does a far better job of having significant distinctions between their cars in terms of looks - the 812, the 296, the SF90, the Roma all look very different. I guess the 296 has some similarities with the SF90, but you wouldn't confuse a 296 with an 812 for example.
You can say the same with every brand. I'm not a hardcore fan of any car brand. I honestly can not tell Ferrari apart anymore, they all look alike to me.
>You really need to get your eyes checked if you can't tell a 720s from a 600LT.
Just got back from the optometrist's office. Nope, still couldn't pick out a 720s from a 600LT in a line-up of McLarens. Yikes, guess I will go kill myself. Thanks, Tim!
I think the reason I think McLarens all look the same is because I’m not spending as much time getting way into all the specs and shot of every super car that comes out anymore. I got older and kinda stopped keeping track as much.
Yeah, at some point you realize you're never going to own one of these and are more excited about the Corolla GR or Civic Type R. Because you could conceivably actually buy one.
I think it's a branding/naming problem. It took me a long time to "see the matrix" and understand their lineup.
I think naming them after their hp was a mistake (that they are at least partially moving away from). For example, for a casual observer if they had an Artura and Artura LT, their lineage is a lot more obvious than 570S and 600LT.
As a casual I can distinguish a P1 from everything else, but that’s about it. You’re talking about people who see maybe 1 McLaren in person per year (I’m people) and don’t pay much attention to supercars in the media (unobtainable kinda takes away the fun for me). Meanwhile a lot of BMW/Audi/Merc look similar but I can easily tell the model/gen from afar.
It's more about different models having a common design language across the whole range. This one is supposed to look like an aventador 2.0, yet neither of them looks remotely anything like a huracan or an urus. They simply share a few elements here and there, which is very much needed in order to make Lamborghinis stand out from other brands
>Aston Martin was the same until they started changing things up with the Valhalla/Valkyrie.
I wouldn't be so sure about that either. Look up AM one-77. The valkyrie looks very much like a modern-day spin on that one to me (and there's absolutely nothing wrong about it)
[This one looks quite a bit different though](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Bugatti_Divo%2C_GIMS_2019%2C_Le_Grand-Saconnex_(GIMS0029).jpg/1200px-Bugatti_Divo%2C_GIMS_2019%2C_Le_Grand-Saconnex_(GIMS0029).jpg)
Well yeah, generally when a company releases fewer model types, the design language seems more obvious because there's an obvious lack of variety. But that car still has a handful of different design aspects.
> because there’s an obvious lack of variety.
This is the exact point we’ve been discussing. There isn’t any real redesign, it’s the same room, same furniture, just changing the upholstery and rearranging it a bit with some new tchotchkes. I’m not sure what you’re trying to do because it sounds like you’re trying to be right by saying I’m wrong but using the exact same argument I am to prove it.
Lack of variety in that context. I think the models differ enough for the most part. But these companies will always incorporate similar design language to be recognizable. I think we're on the same page, just disagree on the amount changed between models - or at least from an expectation standpoint
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You’re telling me you couldn’t tell the difference between an aventador and a huracan?
Tbf tho, it took me forever to differentiate a murcielago from a gallardo haha
Same here. I saw the pictures and immediately thought *yawn*, it looks like just about every other Lamborghini that's been built over the last 20 years. Time to come up with some other designs and be a little bit more creative
This is why I was a little disappointed that the Asterion never made it to production. It seemed to be the only Lamborghini I can think of in recent memory that tried to be more curvy than angular.
Which I get angular is their whole thing (and it’s a style I like) but it’d be interesting to see what they’d come up with if they tried a curvy design that wouldn’t just look like a Ferrari.
Agree on 458->F8 but the 296 is so fundamentally different in every proportion and angle that if you didn’t already know you’d have to guess it was a Ferrari and not some other hypercar brand.
[so fundamentally different???? here are a couple pics comparing them](https://imgur.com/a/3fsNLSe)
you and i can tell them apart... but to most people they wouldnt be able to distinguish one from the other.
I think those angles exaggerate it. In person, the 458/F8 are angular and pointy, while the 296 has much softer and rounder curves. In person, people tend to ask if it’s a Maserati or something else. It shares a fair amount of design with the Dino. All of them are no doubt exotics, but you put a 296 next to a 458 and 488, and it’s the odd one out for sure.
I think that's okay because they are successors to each other, not multiple cars in the current lineup. Ferrari today offers [a number of cars](https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/car-range) that don't look like an F8 et al. I would say Ferrari is one of the exotic sports car brands that does quite well on differentiation actually. Besides that, I think the 458 was one of the best-looking cars ever produced, so I'm glad that something similar is still on offer.
I'm with you. These hyper-cars don't do much for me anymore. It would be different if I could actually own one, but I can't.
Plus, there's just no *real* engineering challenges in them anymore. Wealth has been flowing upwards for so long that Lambo can price these at pretty much whatever they want and still sell 1,000 a year or whatever. That means they can use whatever exotic materials they like without worrying about cost.
The real engineering challenges are the Honda Accords and Civics. You have to make a slightly sporty, but still comfortable vehicle. Oh, and roomy for regular people. Good for long drives. Reasonable to great fuel-economy. Reliable and long-lasting with minimal maintenance and easily repaired. All at a specified price point.
Tbh I didn't love the Recent special editions they based off the Aventador.
I thought there were to many angles and sharp line things. I was surprised at how tame they made it but this will be as 'base' as it will ever look.
It's so they can sell various interactions of it for even higher prices that look increasingly more aggressive, to entice people to keep wanting/buying the latest version.
Looks beefier than the Aventador, but Aventador looks quite a bit better in person. Assuming this will be the same. I understand we will never get Murclielago levels of clean design, but a bit more design restraint could have helped, especially with the rear end.
Same same but different? Honestly, all these cars look the same to me…is it me, who generally likes sportscars, or they indeed look the same like all the other lambos, mclarens etc.?
There's another white demo Revuelto with body painted trim under the headlights, which I like a lot more than the orange one.
https://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/125msl7/video_of_aventador_replacement_leaked/
It's a bit better but still not great IMO, it's still just a hole with some lightbulbs in it. It also makes it look even more like the Lykan from a few years ago.
I couldn't put my finger on it but that's definitely what's weird about the front. Looks like a GTA car. They should have integrated the headlights into the light bars instead of recessing them into black.
Nice, totally digging the new direction they are taking it with the styling. Looks totally different than all the other models.
/s incase you're a woosh
Looks good, It does indeed look like a modern take on the original Aventador that will inevitably get crazier looking over the next decade of facelifts and editions.
I like the simplicity of it like the original Aventador
That car is going to be so fast around tracks it’s not even going to be funny. The new age of supercar performance is going to be mind-bending fast. Get used to seeing those electric motors up front everyone, it’s going to become an industry standard!
It seems like its only downside it that it is going to be heavy. Rumoured to be 4000 lbs, but we will not know for sure until a reviewer gets it weighed. The Italians are notorious for being optimistic with their weight.
The SF90 is 3600 dry, the AMG ONE is 3750. I think it's just time to accept that it's 2023, not 1980 and all the electronics, batteries and electric motors more than make up for their weight in performance.
I think the takeaway is that the one motor approach is better if you wanna keep weight down. Both the Artura and 296 are big steps up in performance over their predecessors without being ponderously heavy.
They have much lower performance targets than the likes of the SF90, AMG ONE or this new Lambo. It's like saying you don't need hybrid at all because the Golf R does great without one.
Eh I don't think that's it. The SF90 and Revuelto aren't meant to be fast around a racetrack. Neither car will be used for factory GT racing efforts, and they're not targeted at owners who want regularly hit the track.
Weight is the enemy of track performance. The increased power and torque of front emotors hasn't outweighed the weight penalty for most applications.
The AMG One is in an entirely different class than the other cars and even then it's not a given that the approach was the correct one to extract maximum performance. The Valkyrie is a lot lighter, has a bit more power, and only has one emotor. In all likelihood it'll be the faster car. The T50 may be even faster still.
>Weight is the enemy of track performance. The increased power and torque of front emotors hasn't outweighed the weight penalty for most applications.
Except it absolutely has. Everyone shat on the Porsche 918 for being heavier and weaker than the P1 and LaF and yet it set the first roadcar, sub-7 minute Nordschleife lap and while the P1 was rumoured to be faster, they could only ever make it faster by putting it in a non-road legal mode and sticking some slicks on it. McLaren claimed they made it around the Ring in under 7 minutes, but no actual time was ever revealed. To quote Hammond "Perhaps they lost the piece of paper it was written on".
It's the same story with the AMG ONE. Everyone shat on it after hearing the final specs, yet it set the Nordschleife lap record in damp conditions. The Valkyrie might be faster, I don't know, but what I do know is that the Valkyrie barely passes as a roadcar, while the AMG ONE seems at least a little bit civilized.
My point is power/weight is not the be-all-end-all anymore and weight alone certainly hasn't been for a while. It's a much, MUCH more complex equation and if the extra weight brings things like electric motors, AWD, advanced traction control then it absolutely could give that car an edge over something that's lighter, but not as advanced.
>Except it absolutely has. Everyone shat on the Porsche 918 for being heavier and weaker than the P1 and LaF and yet it set the first roadcar, sub-7 minute Nordschleife lap and while the P1 was rumoured to be faster, they could only ever make it faster by putting it in a non-road legal mode and sticking some slicks on it. On road-legal tyres it was very rarely faster, if ever. McLaren claimed they made it around the Ring in under 7 minutes, but no actual time was ever revealed. To quote Hammond "Perhaps they lost the piece of paper it was written on".
A couple of things in that situation. Porsche test extensively at the Ring, and they lean heavily on it for marketing. They may try for weeks to set a time with a full factory effort. McLaren, Ferrari, and Lambo don't do that. Secondly, and maybe more importantly, the P1 wasn't originally going to be a hybrid. Development of the car was well underway when they decided to make it a hybrid, and the result was that the battery pack is mounted between the cabin and engine bay and not as low as possible like it is in the 918. With that compromise I don't doubt that the 918 may ultimately be faster around a racetrack.
>It's the same story with the AMG ONE. Everyone shat on it after hearing the final specs, yet it set the Nordschleife lap record in damp conditions. The Valkyrie might be faster, I don't know. We have no such evidence thus far, which I think Aston would be all over if it was there, but what I do know is that the Valkyrie barely passes as a roadcar, while the AMG ONE seems at least a little bit civilized.
The argument isn't that a car can't be fast if it's got a 3 motor (or in this case 4) setup. It's that the weight penalty of that many motors doesn't outweigh the performance boost. I'd expect a $3 million car hypercar like the AMG One to set the fastest production car time, but the question is whether a different approach could've yielded an even faster car.
Aston sold out the Valkyrie awhile ago so theyre not heavily incentivized to spend the money on Ring times. Doubly so given that they're in a precarious financial position. I would argue that neither car is very civilized, they just take different approaches to performance.
>My point is power/weight is not the be-all-end-all anymore and weight alone certainly hasn't been for a while. It's a much, MUCH more complex equation and if the extra weight brings things like electric motors, AWD, advanced traction control then it absolutely could give that car an edge over something that's lighter, but not as advanced.
Power/weight has never been the be all end all. Aero, suspension design, tires, powerband, drivetrain, all those things determine performance. Even then, the relative importance of those factors depends on the application. Aero doesn't matter as much on a 250 hp hot hatch as it does on a 600 hp supercar. Power/weight has a much more pronounced effect on tight race courses than it does on higher speed courses where raw power to overcome drag gains importance.
Just saying that in most applications the extra traction and power from having emotors driving the front axles isn't worth the weight penalty. Maybe for cars that approach/exceed $1 million they can reduce the weight penalty enough to be worth it. In the case of the Revuelto the weight penalty doesn't matter as much because the car is not trying to be the fastest thing on track.
Ehh, I mean didn’t the SF90 set a lap record at Indianapolis, and was what, the fastest or second fastest road car that Evo has ever tested? Neither the Revuelto nor SF will be used for racing, sure, but to say that they weren’t built to be quick around a race track is a little disingenuous.
>Ehh, I mean didn’t the SF90 set a lap record at Indianapolis, and was what, the fastest or second fastest road car that Evo has ever tested? Neither the Revuelto nor SF will be used for racing, sure, but to say that they weren’t built to be quick around a race track is a little disingenuous.
Indianapolis isn't a track where there's a lot of data for apples to apples comparison so setting a lap record isn't as valuable there. Notice that Ferrari hasn't been showing up to track comparos since around 2016.
When I say they weren't meant to be fast around the racetrack I'm saying that's not one of the top goals for those cars. Clearly both cars are tested on racetracks and they don't want them to be \*slow\*, but setting new watermarks in lap time isn't the goal for the SF90 or Revuelto (or Aventador, or Murcielago). It's not an indictment, it just reflects what the respective companies want those products to do.
>Plus, Lamborghini have done major strides in making their big V12s good and properly fast around road courses; the S, SV, and SVJ respectively being prime examples of that.
Sure, for a trim like the SVJ it can get around pretty quickly but ultimate pace is kinda sus. Lambo put up a record breaking factory laptime at the Ring, but when journos have tested it, it hasn't been as impressive.
Ok, but in that piece's of shit case it's not purely a weight issue. The X5M makes 625HP, while the XM only makes 653, so the difference in power is almost a rounding error. Then the XM has narrower front tyres and larger wheels (tyre + rim), which I assume all certainly don't help its sporty chops, along with the extra 250kg or so. It's just an all-round terrible product.
You can pull every technological trick in the world, but physics are immutable. You're always going to be able to feel that weight. Adaptive dampers, aero, and super sticky tires help, but they'd work even better in a lighter car.
But this is the world we live in now.
Lamborghinis are always heavy, it’s not going to be a track car any more than the Aventador or Murcielago was a track car. It’ll do one or two fast laps, cook the brakes, and drain an entire tank of fuel in the process. The V10s are the track rats
*but the sound will be incredible*
Yeah while I agree a 3000 pound, 1000hp lambo would be amazing, we’ve seen that as long as you have downforce and enough tires, physics doesn’t care. The cars stay stupid fast as it is regardless of weight. The car is going to be stupid fast with all the power, if lambo can make their ALA system even better this car will be just fine.
But hey that’s why a GT3 exists, not like you can buy those either but at least it’s still a sports car!
I’m waiting for this corvette ZR1 in a few years, that car is going to be a force of nature, with the AWD electric assist and massive power. The torque vectoring up front will put it in the same league as this car, and likely cost half. If manufacturers are going to save gas engines from not losing to EVs in performance metrics they need to get hybrid assist motors for the launch and torque vectoring. Then we can still listen and play with a glorious engine and run even with the EVs.
Don't forget, there's still the Reveulto Performante, the Reveulto LP-1100, the Reveulto SVJ, The Reveulto LP-1000-2, the Reveulto Pirelli Edition, the Reveulto 70th Anniversary edition, the Reveulto Essenzia, the Reveulto SVJ LP 1200-4 Roadster, the Reveulto xX142069Xx, etc.
lol. the aventador and sf90 wont have any real measureable difference in real life... you'd need to be a exceptional driver on a track. well, except for the fanboys that know it all - hopefully a new videogame system comes out to keep them away.
> That car is going to be so fast around tracks it’s not even going to be funny.
And the really crazy thing is that it's way too powerful to race as is in any series it might qualify for. E.g. IMSA GTD cars are limited to around 500hp. It would have to be massively detuned AND lose all the hybrid stuff.
I don't think the Revuelto is gonna be particularly fast around a racetrack. That's never really been the goal of the Aventador, Murcielago, or Diablo, and I don't think that'll change with the Revuelto. It'll be fast in a straightline while being exciting and extroverted.
Having that top line 1000 hp number is a nice cherry on top.
It's not a leak when the OEM publishes it on their own website and invites YouTubers to film walkaround videos.
[https://media.lamborghini.com/english](https://media.lamborghini.com/english)
The headlights set in negative space is the same mistake as the McLaren 720S. It looks weak and makes the car lack the appearance of confidence, like it's hiding in a cave and afraid to come out.
I think the rest of the car looks great though. The rear end with the high set taillights and exhaust is IMO the coolest part of the Countach, and that's what we have here.
The giant side buttresses are lifted off the C8 Corvette though.
I'd say it looks like the creation of a lower end, low volume supercar brand that barely exists and might disappear at any moment. One of those that ends up in all the car magazines and maybe one video game and then you never hear anything about them again and it's not clear whether they actually sold any cars.
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I think it looks great...the front is a tad boring perhaps...but it looks like what a Lambo should look like (especially with these performance numbers)...an angry bull.
I bet the design will grow on all you haters by the time it's replacement comes around in 10+ years.
I like it a bit more than the Aventador, which always seemed visually ‘too big’ and somehow this doesn’t.
I don’t know about the black cutouts surrounding the headlights.
The Huracan headlights look much better.. more alive.. more like actual eyes!
while its okay looking, just seems run of the mill for lambo nowadays. Plus now all the bros have lambos so for me the appeal of the brand has taken a massive nosedive since the days of the OG countach.
IMO the Sian looks better than the Revuelto. Sure, the Revuelto has more power, but I'm not sure I'm a fan of the styling of the front or the rear compared to the Sian.
I’m bothered by the interior for some reason. I liked the cockpit feeling of the Aventador, I see a lot of Mclaren in this interior. I also am not a fan of the name, almost everyone is pronouncing it differently
Looks like a futuristic render of any Lambo Murcielago/Aventador/Huracan of the last 20 years. Same overall design, just a few changes here and there to make it look aggressive. Getting kinda boring if you ask me.
I'd have to park sideways in my garage so I rarely have to see that disjointed bullshit Lamborghini calls "styling" in the front and rear.
Exhaust pipes like G80 M3 grilles, lines everywhere. I don't know whether to laugh or cry.
Front is some Transformer-looking alien insect bullshit with a flat hood and nothing of interest above the beltline. It looks cheap.
Side view might as well be some special edition of any other Lamborghini produced since 2005.
It needs 13 drive modes because it looks absolutely a dog's breakfast.
Crazy yet awesome to me that Lamborghini has made 2 major V12s in the brand’s history prior to this one, and then decided “let’s make another one and throw electricity and even more rpms at it!” Like, you just know this engine is gonna be around for a decade or more most likely, if the Aventador is any indication, and I absolutely love that.
The Reveulto looks properly insanely stunning, and sounds like a fucking monster per the spec sheet. 9500 rpm… Out of a Lambo V12? My God, if you thought they howled already…
I remember when the Aventador came out, and it absolutely blew me away. Instantly became my favorite car. This..... Kinda disappointing. It looks more like the newer version of the Hurican, and it looks tiny. Nothing really insane about it. Very dialed back and "designed for sales"
Lets hope this leak is not accurate because the design is not great. Looks too much like there other variants. No new leap like we're used to getting Muira - Countach - Diablo - Murcielago - Avendator
In a world where most car companies are now bowing down towards modern regulations by abandoning large naturally aspirated engines in favour of small turbo charged engines, or going fully electric.
Lamborghini is still going strong by giving us large 6.5L naturally aspirated screaming V12 engine.
Idk what I expected but something more? Softer than the limited and one offs they’ve been making recently. It’s not bad but doesn’t feel like super special compared to mclaren or Ferrari from the front
I love the rear, but don't really like the front end at all. Has a boxy quality that reminds me of the Gallardo, my least favourite lookimg 'modern' Lamborghini (save for the atrocious looking Urus, which I'm not counting).
Ha!… I have one coming in a couple of weeks and my exact thoughts were I don’t feel so bad now for my purchase because I’ll be driving the new Lamborghini’s little brother
Have you driven one? I have. My opinion went way down. On the other hand, I’ve driven the Aventador SV, as well as the Huracan RWD Spyder. I like to Huracan
Love it. I’ve got a new Corvette arriving in a few weeks and I actually kind of feel like it could be the affordable twin or younger brother. One of the best test drives I ever took was in an Aventador SV spider.
The more i look at it the more i like it, its so batshit looking but kinda weirdly elegant especially the front lights/ intake and how the entire rear shrink towards the lights/ exhaust. Cant wait to see it in more colors
I like this but I feel like they really are just tweaking the same basic shape with slight mods for a while now--I guess its a successful business model!
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