corporations rely on the State to remain so large and bloated. the economic calculation proof against socialism applies to large corporations as well so using the libertarian/austrian logic against socialism corporations are unnatural and a product of the State
libertarians dont see it as an issue
What is this calculation against socialism?
Libertarians don't see excessive use of government as an issue? Then what is the point of libertarianism? How does it differ from amy other ideology!
The economic calculation issue is that without a pricing system based on supply and demand with competition, you cannot know how much of what to produce leading to surpluses of unnecessary things, and shortages of necessary things such as food leading to famines.
Libertarians do not believe large corporations are a concern once libertarianism is achieved is what I was meaning to say. Excessive government force is what libertarins hate most of all xd. I guess I worded myself not too well and you misunderstood my statement
It isnt just pricing, otherwise market socialism would be viable. Pricing depends on competition and lacking that as a corporatist or state monopoly would lack would make proper pricing impossible.
Stupid definition of freedom. Total freedom os basically unattainable and even if it was attained it wouldn't lead to more happiness than a more limited freedom.
People should stop trying to maximize for freedom and start maximizing for happiness.
A large portion of gun owners in the US have fallen in love with authoritarian populist ideology.
You don't need to disarm a population to install authoritarian ideals, you just need to convince the majority of the gun owners to support it. That's far easier
You ever been stuck in a job you hate, but you can't afford to leave? You ever get locked into a shitty lease with a greedy landlord? You ever sign a shitty employment contract because a shitty job is better than no job? You ever get bankrupted by a medical bill because your job didn't offer good health insurance? You ever rent a house or apartment with a lease that tells you how to live your life, forces you to abandon your dog, restricts you from enjoying otherwise legal pleasures like smoking on the patio? You ever been stuck living on the edge of poverty for no other reason than price gouging and depressed wages?
* "You ever been stuck in a job you hate, but you can't afford to leave?" this is more about your mental state, you don't need to like your job, you work because you need, not because you want.
* "You ever get locked into a shitty lease with a greedy landlord?" you don't to see as a problem when the govermnent does, the entity who charges in almost everything. Including property taxes
* "You ever get bankrupted by a medical bill because your job didn't offer good health insurance?" the government doesn't collect your taxes to take care of this sort of thing? why the company should be responsible instead of the state?
* You ever rent a house or apartment with a lease that tells you how to live your life, forces you to abandon your dog, restricts you from enjoying otherwise legal pleasures like smoking on the patio? understandable, but is about what kind of restriction you are willing to accept or not. I don't see a problem in something like no party after 22 hours, other people wouldn't like it.
* You ever been stuck living on the edge of poverty for no other reason than price gouging and depressed wages? could happen for various reasons, one of them(california for example) could be the increase of minimum wage, sounds good, but you are excluding people with low skill from the market, because nobody will hire someone they don't think worth the salary, and you said your yourself, better been stuck in a job you hate than not work at all right? [price increase because of minimum wage](https://www.kqed.org/news/11985277/impact-of-california-fast-food-worker-wage-increase-still-too-early-to-gauge)
"You ever been stuck in a job you hate, but you can't afford to leave?" this is more about your mental state, you don't need to like your job, you work because you need, not because you want. He literally told you that you can't leave the job, don't make up reasons about mental state or whatever you can't afford to get another job
> this is more about your mental state, you don't need to like your job, you work because you need, not because you want.
If your options around you are fucking awful for you, in principle you can "move with your feet" to another location. But if you cant for some reason, that is a Liberty revoked from you by others, not goverment.
> you don't to see as a problem when the govermnent does
Again, with no goverment. Still would happen, yknow
> the government doesn't collect
If there are no goverment, you wouldnt think charging a lot for medical bills would be a good day to get a lot of money? If you are on the receiving end, you are fucked
> but is about what kind of restriction you are willing to accept or not.
And if you _cant_ choose? If your options are limited?
> You ever been stuck living on the edge of poverty for no other reason than price gouging and depressed wages? could happen for various reasons
Yeah, both of you agree on that. What he says is that there are other ways to infringe your "liberties" than a goverment doing it
I feel like Doobus Goobus’s Fallout New Vegas video is a more accurate representation on what libertarians are actually trying to achieve than…whatever this is.
The meme is entirely pointing out libertarians legitimately fail to understand that tyranny can come from large entities, such as corporations and not just the regime.
I don't get how they seem to not be able to grasp such a simple concept. Even in our half oligarchy government in the US there's lots of laws that protect the individual and environment from that sort of thing.
We have seen this in the 1920s already
You don't think the corporations and the politicians are using their wealth to steam roll the common man already? You think they would have less ability to do this if we took away their political power? It's not about taxes, it's about stopping the corporate dystopia that the lobbyist are creating
If you think that corrupt politicians are what give the ability to companies to run wild then you are wrong. You think there just happen to be a bunch of corrupt politicians and some goody two shoes company owners that the second these politicians stop existing they would abide by logic and reason and good feeling? The millisecond you abolish politicians or whatever you think you are doing in the name of corruption all companies would instantly lower all prices and drive competition out or buy them and become a monopoly in record time
Just because we have politicians and we have monopolies doesn't mean that without politicians we would not have monopolies. No politicians = 100% possibility of monopolies. With politicians at least that chance is less than 100%
Internet libertarians are insufferable memelords and reek of reddit. Dipshits talking about a mcnuke don't have IQ required to have coherent political position.
My understanding is it meant pro gun, pro choice, anti-interventionism, cutting deficit spending and leaving people alone unless they are causing harm to others.
At some point it turned into some weird crush the poor and suck off Elon Musk club. Then again a conversation with your average MAGA or leftist is probably about as enlightening as one with your average libertarian.
People don't understand that unlimited freedom just means the people with the most shit have unlimited freedom to eat the poor.
Beyond that, said wealth has already entrenched itself into, and bought the political system long ago. There is no possible way anyone that is not pre-approved D or pre-approved R ever gets close to the brass ring.
Every other political party is either a psyop or delusional by this point.
The problem is a party has to operate from the ground up, aka local to national. This is hard and requires work and money, so most of the good, practical candidates go for D or R.
All that’s left for third parties are the delusional and grifters, so they focus on national elections they can’t possibly win.
An change to ranked voting or removing the "winner takes all" clause from US politics would also do a lot. Right now only a massive breach of trust in either one party will create a new party and whichever breaks first will never get to power again until the other also breaks
Who, honestly? Every party celebrates “personal freedom good.” It’s a value a first grader can appreciate, which is about the typical level of policy thinking of Libertarians.
It gets to like, fifth or seventh grade policy questions like, “should the government regulate clean water and air?” or “how should the government respond to the homelessness crisis?” that Libertarians stop talking any sense.
lol tell that to the party controlling states prosecuting women for getting abortions, or the party never ever considering reducing the military budget, or ballooning the deficit just as much as the party on the left. Which party you talking about?
thats not a response. i could say the same about your left, in that theyre trying to take away your guns which is also your personal freedom. if you deconstruct everything like that, no political party advocates for personal freedom.
The left: small government when it comes to personal abortion/queer rights, big government when it comes to restraining corporations
The right: small government when it comes to gun ownership and corporations, big government for military, abortion, immigration
While your definition might have worked in the early 1800s, it doesn't apply to modern American politics.
'Personal freedom' is a really vague term that can be either good or bad, depending on context. Both parties recognize this.
Every party agrees on allowing certain freedoms (speech, attorney, refusal to quarter soldiers in private homes), disagree on allowing certain others (abortion, gay marriage), and agree on forbidding others (murder). To say that "personal freedom is good" is as inane a statement as "air is good" or "people are good".
oh my god you retard.
the statement "all parties advocate personal freedoms" is just wrong no matter which end of the spectrum you lie on. fucking retard.
Is the second amendment not a personal freedom? Is gay marriage not a personal freedom?
Just because every party isn't anarchist doesn't somehow mean they're all fascist dictators.
i mean surely you just repeated the things i said
[https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/1dktf8g/comment/l9kwbqq/?utm\_source=share&utm\_medium=web3x&utm\_name=web3xcss&utm\_term=1&utm\_content=share\_button](https://www.reddit.com/r/greentext/comments/1dktf8g/comment/l9kwbqq/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
but came to the wrong conclusion because youre a retard
The personal freedom to not use a seatbelt is factually bad, it is inline with the non aggression principle since if I don't use a seatbelt I don't do any violence to any person, yet the more freedom I have to not use a seatbelt the less freedom I have to live
I'm going to assume you know nothing about politics or guns. While I should have just said all guns in my original comment, some people get offended by that.
By assault weapon I was referring to assault rifles and such, which would have been made clear from context. Assault rifles are a specific type of gun that includes the AK-47. They're often used by military assault forces, which is presumably where they got the name. They tend to lack the accuracy of hunting rifles and are somewhat unwieldy for home defense. Adding to AR-15s being used in a lot of high profile massacres recently, people want them banned or restricted seeing as they don't have much use for a civilian.
No, I was actually curious if you could even give a definition of them. It’s pretty interesting how often people who talk about banning assault weapons can’t even give a concise definition of what they are. Lots of problems with your definition but at least you have one
"You owning a chunk of plastic and metal literally does affect me personally, actually"
There's no point in even arguing with these people. The state has drilled into their heads since birth that the nebulous concept of "society" is a victim.
The problem with personal freedom is that there is no way to separate a person from the world around them.
If i choose to use the personal freedom to do fentanyl, i don't just destroy my own life, i bring the society down with me. I contribute to the drug problem, increase the demand for fentanyl in my region, i make the drug dealing network stronger, make it more likely others will choose the same "personal" freedom. I stop contributing to the economy, i stop generating products or services other people might enjoy. I become a burden for my family.
And when i finally overdose, someone has to pick me up and bury or cremate me. That person could use their time more productively being a nurse instead.
Fentanyl is a crazy example, but sugary drinks, cigarettes, guns, speeding on highways, etc are all burdens on society.
You were so excited to “roast me” for having one downvote that you couldn’t take the time to spell “didn’t you.” Or even get close enough for autocorrect to help.
Wow you really got me ddntu
They say “personal freedoms good” during campaign, but then libertarians turn around and disband the fire department and sell your local library to Walmart.
Never trust a libertarian.
i wonder if it could be because most critiques are insane strawmen like this that are so far removed from what libertarianism is and actual issues with it that it is almost laughable?
I think it´s mostly because Libertarians are very bad at understanding the future outcome of their ideology. They tend to look at the short term benefit whilst completely ignoring what society would look like in 20 years if their brain dead ideology would ever be implemented.
I feel like statists do a much worse job at looking at the future. Libertarianism gives long term benefit rather than short term, as systems that are built on the State and its tyranny would crumble before being replaced by better systems. The common people are not good judges of what 20 years would look like with the ideology, and rather make braindead strawmen such as these that end up just being more State control and completely contradictory to libertarianism. Saying "oh bbut your braindead ideology will just become an exaggerated version of the status quo we already have in 20 years and the opposite of itself, now listen to my delusional fantasy story" is not a valid critique of the system in of itself.
This is like saying "communism is bad because after 20 years it will become capitalism and it will be very bad and scary", rather than the actual real life critique of "communism is bad because the definition of "stateless, moneyless, classless" is oxymoronic as the latter two cannot be enforced without a State. socialism the actual economic system is bad due to the economic calculation problem in that without pricing based on supply and demand and competition you cannot know how much of what people need, leading to surpluses of unnecessary items and shortage of necessary items such as food leading to famine"
Hey, despite agreeing with many libertarian ideas I can easily point out issues such as greater threat of foreign invasion, allowing immoral and degenerate behavior leading to many suffering in the short term, uninformed and comforming customers not giving enough checks on companies, among many other REAL LIFE things rather than bullshit like "uhhh you will live in blackrock pod and eat ze bug and oh shit this is what ultra statists are saying"
Mean while green party keeps shooting itself in the foot because the moment their goals get passed they become irrelevant to the conversation and evaporate.
It's more that "we should slow down or stop climate change now because it indirectly deals with a lot of our other issues" which is a fairly groundbreaking concept when compared to the two parties in power. Even the dems mostly just see it as another issue that should be dealt with at some point
Or they get captured by foreign interests because they are so desperate for cash that they’ll take it from anywhere.
Seeing the leadership cozying up to Putin has been 🤮
His credit score was ok in the morning, but the fair market price for the workstation he rents was higher than the fair market price of his labor that day.
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