Are there aftermarket solutions for button/dial based climate control?
Posted by dogemaster00@reddit | cars | View on Reddit | 38 comments
Title, there’s quite a bit of new vehicles where I like everything except for climate control in touch screen. Even if it cost $10k or something. Seems like all the German brands are touchscreen only for climate control. And buying used isn’t appealing, especially after seeing how friends have treated/abused their leased cars that would have low miles and dealer work on paper.
Also, does any company do work where they replace the haptic controls with buttons and dials? These bother me less but still do
I know there’s reverse solutions where you can get a touchscreen/carplay on older cars. Does this exist?
Val_Allah@reddit
Funny you mention this, I am currently working on a project for an aftermarket rotary knob that has near universal compatability. Currently going through further R&D then gotta go through the potential patent process, but will update you when available:)
sictransitgrace@reddit
I would love an update on this :)
vexingcosmos@reddit
Any news on this???
MaximusBiscuits@reddit
I feel like volume is simple enough since the steering wheel circuit is probably easy enough to tap into, but I can't imagine climate control going so well
Shmokesshweed@reddit
That sounds like a terrible business. Compatibility nightmares, insane amounts of customized buttons and panels, etc.
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
Exactly. OEMs are starting to encrypt their CANbus now so you won’t be able to do it by sending messages to the car, so you’ll be stuck with a bunch of custom kits that require the end user to modify the car to make it work
ReyneOfFire@reddit
FWIW encryption in CANbus is extremely rudimentary at the moment and is mainly to protect the payload of messages rather than to stop people from sending messages. Its still very easy to do that.
The REAL problem is that its just a lot of work for a very limited market.
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
I’ve been communicating with Ford’s CANbus for 7 years and have spoken directly with Ford engineers about the CANbus encryption they implemented in 2022. I could no longer access it through the OBDII pins, so I had to bridge the Ford connector for their Upfitter Interface Module to regain access. After they encrypted that I can longer access the CANbus using the code I’ve written for my controller, and I can’t even get on bus using my CAN sniffer. The only way to send or receive messages is through the new UIS module by tapping on to the Ford provided pigtail, but even that is restricted by Ford and you can only receive CANbus messages, and to send them you have to program the UIS module and utilize the soft switches in the Sync system to control physical outputs.
Other OEMs may not have locked it down as much as Ford has yet.
Xirasora@reddit
From what i understand, Ford didn't really "lock it down", but the OBDII port is just a diagnostic port now. It doesn't talk unless woken up by a reader.
I've been doing tons of stuff with my 2016 Flex (aftermarket front camera, auto heated seats, etc) and my 2022 Bronco -- always select previous GOAT mode on startup. Biggest headache is the flexible-datarate CAN used on one network.
All the networks are directly accessible on the Flex through obdii, but the Bronco required I tap directly into hs2-can on the goat mode switch.
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
I spoke with numerous Ford engineers on a conference call last year in October about the CANbus and some gremlins I had found in the new UIS system. They told me they’ve encrypted the CANbus as much as they can, and only certain options like the Upfitter Interface System and “Goes Over Any type of Terrain” mode allows customers/users to read or write messages that they’ve allowed through the filter.
For example, I used to be able to command the indicators over the CANbus until the 23MY came around. I can see the indicator message in my sniffer, but the system will not accept Tx messages. I’ve tried bridging the HS busses, the MS busses, and the J1939 bus, and none of them work. I used to be able to bridge pretty much any CANbus connection in the dash to get around the OBD2 port being filtered, but now I have to install a secondary module and throw the CANbus over to that cloned module if I want to have operator control in a secondary operating position
Xirasora@reddit
God i wish i could talk to the engineers, get the real scoop on some stuff like the differences between cgea 1.2 and 1.3 as far as frame data. I get the gateway module and all that, but like why the message changes so much between the two architectures for the same task on on the same system
Maybe I didn't notice anything on the Bronco because I'm just sending an identical "ok button was pressed" that would be generated normally by the SCCM, not some custom new message
ReyneOfFire@reddit
Its probably not encryption but rather Ford switched to using CAN subnetworks and has limited what traffic goes across the diagnostic subnetwork through OBD2 and the interface module. All new cars do this anyways, so you have to splice directly into the CAN wires.
It is technically impossible to "encrypt" CAN messages in the traditional sense because it operates at an electrical level. There is nothing to actually encrypt, only different ways of interpreting voltage differentials.
dogemaster00@reddit (OP)
I found a version of this for Tesla actually - but curious if anyone’s done this with other cars
Shmokesshweed@reddit
Link?
dogemaster00@reddit (OP)
https://enhauto.com/
Shmokesshweed@reddit
From what I can gather, the only reason these even exist is because Tesla has a public API. I doubt Ford, BMW, etc. have any plans for that.
N546RV@reddit
I was wondering this looking at that site, and I agree that having a published API makes stuff like this 1000% easier. In the general case, I think you'd have to tap directly into the CAN bus, sniff the traffic, figure out all the various messages...not impossible, but also a lot more work.
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
You are correct. You would need to send messages over the CANbus to instruct the car to do what you want. Ford has started encrypting their CANbus over the last few years and it won’t be long before other OEMs follow suit.
Source: I work with CANbus on over 350 different vehicles, specifically Ford, International, Freightliner, Dodge, Isuzu, Mack, and Peterbilt. I’ve also spoken with Ford engineers directly over their version of Zoom last year after they completely encrypted their CANbus, which impacted the code I wrote that talks with the trucks.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
Legitimate question, how often are people adjusting their (automatic) climate control to the point that having it on a touchscreen becomes an issue? Everyone talks about climate control knobs but a volume control knob is an order of magnitude more important to me.
Lawson51@reddit
I live in Texas. I want the A/C on FULL blast when I start the car in the middle of August in noon. 5 minutes later, I adjust a bit down since the car is cooled down. After about 10-15 minutes, I adjust one last time.
The same is true in winter. Ditto for my music. I constantly adjust the volume depending on the specific track playing at the moment, if I need to listen to my GPS more, I hear something outside, etc... I need easy immediate access to the volume controls.
Climate control isn't a set it and forget it for me. I DESPISE unintuitive touch screen controls and that's a big reason I haven't considered any Tesla vehicle. I
Lawson51@reddit
I live in Texas. I want the A/C on FULL blast when I start the car in the middle of August in noon. 5 minutes later, I adjust a bit down since the car is cooled down. After about 10-15 minutes, I adjust one last time.
The same is true in winter. Ditto for my music. I constantly adjust the volume depending on the specific track playing at the moment, if I need to listen to my GPS more, I hear something outside, etc... I need easy immediate access to the volume controls.
Climate control isn't a set it and forget it for me. I DESPISE intuitive touch screen controls and that's a big reason I haven't considered any Tesla vehicle. I
digitaltransmutation@reddit
I am a windows down enjoyer. My golf can do a shortcut in the pulldown menu for the a/c compressor but I still kinda wish it was a single touch.
dogemaster00@reddit (OP)
The big issue is window fogging and circulating air.
AwesomeBantha@reddit
I would assume that a modern automatic climate control system could handle all of those, though?
GrendelGT@reddit
bUt I wAnT tO bE iN cOnTrOl
sarcasmyousausage@reddit
The 2016 370z NISMO had that horrible navigation unit and people tried to retrofit earlier year climate controls and couldn't do it, they worked on it for years.
ChevyGang@reddit
Not sure on your budget but the BMW 8 series is probably the last BMW with traditional controls. Lots of Lexus vehicles do as well.
Also consider voice controls or just leaving the settings ln Auto. My temperature is on Auto year round and the ventilated/heated seats come on based on the vehicles temperature.
dogemaster00@reddit (OP)
I absolutely hate voice controls even more than just changing it on a touchscreen, I don’t want to interrupt a conversation with a passenger to turn on recirculating air when near a stinky truck for example. It also feels very weird to talk to a computer for me still, no matter how good it is and how much I’ve done it. Auto isn’t good enough I’ve found - again because of issues such as windshield fogging up, etc.
zeek215@reddit
Modern cars handle climate just fine on auto. I'm guessing you're in an older car with not as good climate performance.
badpuffthaikitty@reddit
Try to find a lightly used Audi TT. No haptic buttons, just aluminum dials.
happy--muffin@reddit
The Mitsubishi Mirage G4 got them sweet physical buttons as well and it’s under $20k MSRP for a new one
EICONTRACT@reddit
eh new gen lexus is all about that touch screen with those bluepurple dials.
ItsMeTrey@reddit
The only one I am aware of are the S3XY knob and buttons for Teslas. I doubt it would make financial sense for a company to do something similar as a universal device.
ILikeTewdles@reddit
What brands are you looking at and what types of vehicles?
Audi\VW, Porche, Honda, Toyota, Lexus, Alfa Romeo, Chevy\GM, just to name a few all have at least one model with Physical HVAC controls.
I do agree though. I tried to like a 2023 Subaru with everything in the infotainment screen. I lasted about 11 months before I got sick of dealing with it and traded it in on a new VW that has physical buttons for everything. So much better, no more tablet screens with everything integrated for me.
dogemaster00@reddit (OP)
I’d be interested in luxury wagons, which is already very limited.
SophistXIII@reddit
Some Audis (A4/Q5, etc) still have physical HVAC controls.
WeAreAllFooked@reddit
It’s possible, but you need to use a programmable CANbus switch pack and know how to send CANbus messages to the car to make it do what you want. That’s all assuming the car doesn’t have an encrypted CANbus (Ford has starting encrypting their CANbus in 2022)
Drzhivago138@reddit
You'd have to do a lot of rewiring and reprogramming just for one button/knob, and then find a place for it on the dash. Then repeat for the next button, and so on.
I suppose you could make a "fake" knob with no wiring that just sends a Bluetooth signal to the touchscreen to automatically do whatever function you were trying to access. But that seems like a lot of wasted effort.