The EU is trying to implement a plan to use AI to scan and report all private encrypted communication. This is insane and breaks the fundamental concepts of privacy and end to end encryption. Don’t sleep on this Europeans. Call and harass your reps in Brussels.
Posted by B3_Kind_R3wind_@reddit | linux | View on Reddit | 305 comments
Stariy-Gopnik@reddit
So what?
kebman@reddit
It is for this reason I'm looking into dyamic distributre hash tables. I do this in order to achieve a decentralized chat application that is ofc also end-to-end encrypted.
The way it works is that all it's message relay-servers are actually just the client program used by other users, and it essentially works as a distributed hash table (DHT). This means that they're the one taking care of where the message should be routed, they take care of the load balancing, and due to forward security (it never stores metadata about its origin), it's not possible to trace the message at any point.
At best you can make a fake client, or monitor one client, and try to understand what traffic is actually a message, since all traffic is encapsulated in an equal size encrypted packet. Essentially all data, messages or not, look like noise.
I think you should look into technology like this too!
whatthesamuel@reddit
Is this even possible? Does this mean that 256-bit encryptions can now be solved by AI?
W-a-n-d-e-r-e-r@reddit
That's not a race about who can fuck up EU the most.
This piece of shit Zensursula (for the non German speakers its a mix between Zensur [censor] and Ursula) von der Leyen needs to be kicked out asap.
SitaroArtworks@reddit
I totally agree with you.
Mal_Dun@reddit
Changing the head won't do squits as long as people vote for the EVP. Conservatives across Europe try this since the internet is a thing. Someone remembers ACTA? Pepperidge farms remembers....
Nelo999@reddit
This was a Libtard law being introduced by a Social Democrat MEP from Sweden.
The Socialists are also in full support.
Secondly, the EU parliament also tried to ban "Sex Work" again a while back.
And guess who were some of the biggest backers of such laws?
The SPD of Germany as well as other Socialist MEP's.
vesterlay@reddit
Isn't she just the president. Don't such decisions go through a vote?
nelmaloc@reddit
Yes, and Parliament has already disapproved.
daniel-sousa-me@reddit
She is the president of the commission. These kinds of things need to be voted on the parliament.
Wally__666@reddit
It is not only Flintenuschi (Rifle Uschi; from the time she was german minster of defense). It is the whole pack of undemocratic d*mba**es in Brussels.
metux-its@reddit
Meanwhile we call her Flintenuschi (Flinte = rifle)
AntLive9218@reddit
It's quite in line with the generic direction though, and such large scale issues can't be blamed on a single person, not even just a handful of them.
If it's so easy to against the best interest of the majority of the people, then the system is just simply flawed, but then the people not having a say in the matter to begin with is a quite clear indication of that.
githman@reddit
Hardly surprising but is it actually possible from the technical perspective? Unless they have a backdoor to TLS, no AI would help.
The intent counts, though.
tdammers@reddit
Indeed - it's not the "AI" part that's problematic, it's the "scanning" part.
As the linked article states, such a thing would only be possible through the following means:
The first one obviously renders the encryption moot, because now anyone with access to the backdoor can decrypt.
The second one also renders the encryption moot, because sending the message to another recipient with a different encryption key (or, worse, no encryption at all) is pretty much equivalent to a backdoor.
The third one can only possibly work if whoever does the scanning can effectively control the client, which means that the client is no longer trustworthy, and again, this renders the encryption moot.
The "AI" part is just about what happens to the message once you have bypassed the end-to-end encryption; I guess it was thrown in to make the idea sound like something fundamentally new, to take a fresh stab at undermining encryption after EU regulators have repeatedly taken the stance that end-to-end encryption should be left alone.
AntLive9218@reddit
Most communication platforms are already not trustworthy, so making them obviously hostile is just the logical next step.
Before commercial data collection it was possible to pick from multiple clients for many chat services. Sometimes there were some issues now and then with non-official clients, but that's just the part of progress without a stable API, it was not malice yet. Now most clients are closed source, and older versions stop working after a very short transitioning period, so it's not feasible to do any auditing. This is often combined with using a locked down device (typically phone) mandatory where the "owner" isn't even allowed to observe the behavior of the black box.
It generally feels like this problem is inevitable, and the EU is a huge fan of it. For example if it would really care about the platform fragmentation, then we could start with taking a step back to the days when even multi-service clients like Pidgin existed, but that would undermine the authoritarian plans being worked on.
Also looking at the larger picture it's only going to get worse because these tools are always misused to weed out the naughty citizens spreading dangerous ideas like freedom and privacy. It's not like there's any transparency, if pictures spreading undesired ideas get totally accidentally added to the detection list, then it's not like the people spreading them would get notified, they would just get on a list which might lead to further and more specific accidents happening to them in other systems making life changing decisions but also not having transparency. Details might change based on the country, but maybe the rebellious young adult still full of hope for a better world just happens not to get into a desired university, but surely just because other candidates scored higher (in case there's no scoring transparency).
FrederikSchack@reddit
I had to go back to Whatsapp after Element/Matrix failed miserably.... There isn't any decent privacy focused communications platform that really works.
AntLive9218@reddit
Feels like you just have to choose the least worst option based on your needs just like in many other cases as good options are generally fading away.
For example I get that Whatsapp is likely the most popular option for friends and family if you are okay with Meta/Facebook awkwardly joining your inner circle, but on the other hand the phone number usage automatically makes it quite dangerous for communicating with strangers you don't want to expose your whole identity to.
FrederikSchack@reddit
What's the solution, I can't get family and friends to use junk like Element.
equisetopsida@reddit
Signal is decent, and does a bit better than W.
FrederikSchack@reddit
Personally I don't trust Signal.
FrederikSchack@reddit
I think I tried all the best options with in messaging Session, XMPP, Matrix, Tox, Briar e.t.c.
Ansky11@reddit
There is no FOSS app that has E2E, decentralization, Tor routing, audio, video, conferencing, with clients for all platforms.
ExponentialBeard@reddit
They will oblige all europeans to download a software which will be an agent with a tcpdump like software they will scan the communications. About the certificates maybe they search via ai a way ti decrypt all that info
githman@reddit
A sound analysis. While I don't think this threat is going to become real any time soon, I will add some comments as an exercise in healthy paranoia.
Yep. I'd say this is the most realistic path.
Would be noisy on the user device: weird network connections.
Even more noisy: high CPU load, high RAM usage, weird connections.
And finally, the AI itself. Being 2.5-lingual, I deal with Google Translate and other AI-based excuses for a natural language comprehension system every day. Man, they so do not know what they read and translate, it's plain not funny. The amount of false reports on suspected free speech is going to be hilarious.
Analog_Account@reddit
When I read this I just assumed it was about client side monitoring. Microsoft is doing that recall thing, lots of phones are coming with NPU's... Potentially this could happen in the background on your device soon.
TampaPowers@reddit
Remember upload filters? Yeah turns out you can't actually scrape everything that gets uploaded for potential violations because the hash database for that would be massive and essentially double the traffic volume. Let alone the part about changing one pixel in a picture and you get a different hash. The technical requirements to make that work are so astronomical they can't really be implemented without upgrading the network, which no one wants to fund.
Similar thing with intercepting communication on such a level. 300million people sending messages at least ten times a day on average, good luck. It's already impressive the network is able to withstand the traffic it sees with the performance it has. Double that overnight. No chance.
EU says a lot of stuff that makes no sense and has seemingly no relation to the real world. You kinda get used to that a bit over time, but I do have to agree that they need to start using their braincells. Problem is, good luck getting them to listen when powerful lobbies, er sponsors, are providing the "experts" for their education on such matters. Some of the debates they have and "facts" they base these things on are so out of this world you start to feel like it's best to not listen to it at all and hope that local ratification of their laws are more sensible. Not that there is much hope given the average politician.
newsflashjackass@reddit
Easier to pass a law than enforce it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_pi_bill
newsflashjackass@reddit
In most cases, yes.
You: "I will use my super secure communication platform so no one eavesdrops."
The rest of humanity: "I can only be reached on new FaceTok AnalGape, the only communications platform with EchoChamber technology so everyone hears what you have to say!"
EntertainedEmpanada@reddit
TLS? What the fuck are you talking about?
calibrono@reddit
TLS != E2EE.
donald_314@reddit
But of course it's possible. All phones and apps will be required to report what you send.
Able-Reference754@reddit
force services to scan your data on the clientside before encryption pretty much seems to be the play with all these proposals.
Alert-Drive-7546@reddit
Really You Noobs?
As if did not started in US !?! Forgot Snowden?
But EU bashing?
you are fucked right before your eyes, and the EU sucks US-Penis, so what the fuck did you think it would happen?
Sure you though freedom paradise!?! In God we trustED or so?
FarmerWithATractor@reddit
Move out of Europe, I've heard that India is still reasonably ok.
delboy85341@reddit
Governments hate people being free. Governments want to control everything. Sometimes people rebel and set up a government that allows some freedom for the people. Once this is done, government instantly starts trying to figure ways to restrict the new freedoms.
delboy85341@reddit
Of course they do. They don't want others to find out about their bribe taking, influence peddling, drug dealing, child sexual exploitation or whatever other crap they're involved in.
Accomplished_Tale996@reddit
The right to be left alone will only be found in places far faaaar away from civilisation unfortunately.
Accomplished_Tale996@reddit
They want to identify and risk-rate every single citizen on the planet across different categories. They want to especially find out who is not a fan of big government, global institutions, global agendas etc it’s largely not about crime. It’s about the system moving toward a totalitarian global government masquerading as something else. It’s mind-boggling that so many people still have their heads in the sand. Voting doesn’t seem to help either as any party that wants to change any of this would be stopped anyway. Parties that look partially appealing in some countries are likely controlled-opposition and another means to identify and blacklist more individuals that are a risk to the emerging autocratic global governance model.
B3_Kind_R3wind_@reddit (OP)
Meanwhile..
Leak: EU interior ministers want to exempt themselves from chat control bulk scanning of private messages
mrvictorywin@reddit
Standards for thee not for mee
TheBigCore@reddit
calls their reps in Brussells
receives voicemail message "your call is very important to us. please hold.
10 minutes later, call hangs up and is nothing but dialtone.
delboy85341@reddit
Reminds me of the cartoon I saw recently. A man is on the phone. The voice says "Your call is important to us. Please stay on the line until it's no longer important to you"
L3ARnR@reddit
10 minutes of surveillance clocked
Mal_Dun@reddit
aka how the EVP understands law making.
Nelo999@reddit
This was was introduced and advocated by a Social Democrat MEP from Sweden.
So, no.
Mal_Dun@reddit
If you look how parties normally vote on these kind of laws, then yes.
Teenager_Simon@reddit
1984 for poors and free for me
S48GS@reddit
Use AI:
Now:
AndrewZabar@reddit
I have always thought everyone knew they were choking for this kind of power ever since the internet started being ubiquitous. Free exchange of ideas and information from person to person? Worldwide?? Good lord that was a nightmare to them. They had everything under control before; the media, television, radio, news, and education. There wasn’t anything they didn’t have reins attached to.
But the internet started letting ideas flow free, and also started letting people actually unite and take sides against the overlords.
They’ve had a rock hard erection for AI all this time and meanwhile they’ve been doing the shit manually. There are misinformation companies who have LITERALLY millions of domains registered - at least that’s what a couple of them told some journalist’s article I read a couple years ago. But regardless, yeah they have never wanted any freedom beyond what they bestow.
We are going to either wind up in a dystopia or we are going to have some major revolutions. And it’s probably coming in a matter of a few decades at most. Hard to estimate. How much time until every human on earth (minus THEM), has nothing left to lose?
S48GS@reddit
if you read this https://fediscience.org/@petersuber/112955833094025792 - Transcript of yesterday's #Trump - #Musk conversation.
And watch this - https://youtu.be/FkKPsLxgpuY?t=1112 - Veritasium video - 18:33 time - in past people used "IQ test" as definition of "value of human".
AI obviously can be used to make tool to define "value of human" - just connect human life patterns to genetic data - boom you have another tool to define "value of human".
And then just use that tool to value countries and regions.
Like my region where I live - live for many many years being under rocket/drones explosions right above house where I live - obvious next step is - since it "not getting better" - they drop nukes - and my value as human - is to be +1 in statistic of nuke.
What a time to be alive.
AndrewZabar@reddit
Yeah and society doesn’t unite against this shit because most people are stupid and beyond that most people won’t give up something they enjoy just because it’s bad for society. People are almost but not quite incapable of acting now on something that will have consequences a very long time from now.
People who benefit from things that harm everyone in the long run will never ever ever do any differently. We as a society have the capacity to prevent this stuff but only in theory. In practice there’s too much division (intentionally fostered by the powers that be), too much apathy (intentionally fostered by the powers that be), shitty education and lack of critical thinking skills (intentionally fostered by the powers that be), way way way too much religion (intentionally fostered by the powers that be) - which itself fosters these things as well.
The thing is most people just cannot afford emotionally to dive into playing an active role in making things better.
Hopefully I won’t get banned for this but godfuckingdammit why did that asshole have to miss and only wing the ear.
Which-Moose4980@reddit
A little late, but I'm curious about the "superearth" comment.
S48GS@reddit
in which way?
My comment/context was obvious sarcasm/hyperbola.
Which-Moose4980@reddit
I just wasn’t sure what you meant by the superearth part and was curious.
S48GS@reddit
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starship_Troopers
https://youtu.be/UC5EpJR0GBQ
TallDog9297@reddit
For a moment I thought of Helldivers (effectively inspired by Starship Troopers)
S48GS@reddit
I read alot of military-futurism from 60-80-s include many U.S. popular authors - it all about same, Starship Troopers and Helldivers2 is just more modern representation of same ideas.
Which-Moose4980@reddit
Ah thanks. I love the first Starship Troopers movie bur never followed it after that.
BufferUnderpants@reddit
How sarcastic is it?
Billions are being invested into making knowledge workers into assemly line workers operating the extremely capital expensive machinery of a handful of industrialists, many venues for social mobility will be shut as human capital is commoditized, but the kitchens and scooters to deliver food to middle managers will still need bodies.
S48GS@reddit
If your context is - "IT bros making another try of determination value-of-human".
https://youtu.be/FkKPsLxgpuY?t=1112 - Veritasium video - 18:33 time - one of previous try to do the same.
It way too obvious where it all going.
Ok_Antelope_1953@reddit
journalism went down the drain long before AI. the moment businesses found out about clickbait, most real journalists were pushed out to make room for "engagement" seeking clowns.
eriomys@reddit
unprofessional social media and smartphone videos replaced journalists as they were faster to publish and without censorship or edits.
Coffee_Ops@reddit
Click bait has been around long before computers existed.
chaosgirl93@reddit
We used to call it "yellow journalism".
Inside-General-797@reddit
At least there were people writing stuff! Now it feels like half the internet is AI generated content!
the_MOONster@reddit
Now Revelation 13 doesn't sound that stupid anymore, does it? :p
NoMansSkyWasAlright@reddit
I dunno, I really like that AI can autogenerate comments for you on LinkedIn and they show up under basically every post. Someone made about Pluto and the comment it suggested was “how has the removal of Pluto from the solar system affected things?”
Apparently it’s just gone now, guys.
Citan777@reddit
This would be hilarious if it wasn't so dangerously coherent and credible...
CyclopsRock@reddit
This is genuinely very common. Often laws won't affect those that enact them on the grounds that you don't want the people making laws like this to do so through the lens of specifically how it will personally affect them and their political opponents.
There are loads of examples in the US where Congress writes laws that bind private sector and executive branch employees but not themselves, including in areas so minor as to be basically inconceivably be because they view themselves as above the law - such as health and safely rules in their offices, or laws regarding signage. And typically any restrictions still apply to them outside of work.
Obviously this doesn't mean exempting themselves from laws cannot be due to self interest, but it's by no means the only explanation.
Fnordinger@reddit
Generally true, but the way it is supposed to be implemented (supposedly „privacy respecting“ and only meaningful if CP has been found + opt out possibility, which will also lock you out from sending pictures), it’s weird that the effects should be relevant for them. They don’t have to send pictures as part of their job and so could bypass the scanning completely.
It doesn’t help that there were cases where politicians „accidentally“ deleted all messages on their phone that could have been evidence for investigations (Like Ursula von der Leyen).
_leeloo_7_@reddit
meanwhile google and microsoft
Positive-Role-9936@reddit
I love how they are using the excuse of child exploitation to soften people up to allow for this garbage. Almost like saying, if you want want any privacy, you are a pedophile supporter.
SirArthurPT@reddit
I wonder if being dumb is a requirement for being a politician. Do those idiots realise that even if they are exempt during office they will not be there forever and won't be exempt afterwards?
They're creating awful tools that can, and eventually will, be used against themselves!
lordoftheclings@reddit
They're not dumb but the populace is - they are not outraged, protesting or anything. Politicians do whatever they want - they would keep it exempt for themselves, for sure.
Holzkohlen@reddit
Of course they do. It subverts all privacy, they know exactly how crappy this is.
fossfan83@reddit
Only privacy for rich and powerful and criminals. EU going like China and Russia.
lordoftheclings@reddit
They already were - Europeans just have their heads in the clouds.
ODByall@reddit
LOL
the_MOONster@reddit
Maybe it is time for torches and pitchforks...
leafWhirlpool69@reddit
Oh yeah that totally won't be used to police private conversations related to political dissent, no, never. Only to stop pedophiles. Just trust them
lezzmeister@reddit
Remember when Sweden had that list of banned websites to get CP and terrorism off the internet? And half the list was websites arguing against this and government overreach? I remember.
nicgeolaw@reddit
"In-groups whom the law protects but does not bind, alongside out-groups whom the law binds but does not protect"
ObeyCoffeeDrinkSatan@reddit
The article says it's intelligence services, the military, and police that will be exempt. Which is obviously sensible.
FierceDispersion@reddit
Even if you are ok with them invading your privacy like this, it doesn't even protect the children!
briek0@reddit
Linux users I'm in Urgent need of help I'm trying to download Linux and I uploaded the image of what I need help with
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delboy85341@reddit
I'm not surprised. They locked up the big cheese at Telegram. I hear he's out on bail, but he's not supposed to leave the country. I hear the French are accusing him of crimes related to drug smuggling, human trafficing, and so on. I get the impression they're mad at him because he won't create a back door into Telegram for them. So they're saying since you won't give us a back door, we're going to accuse you of aiding these criminals.
There are any number of ways a back door could be abused. Suppose an opposition candidate for some high office in the land is doing better in the polls than the incumbent. A corrupt leader could use the back door to spy on the opposition. Say a cop is mad at his wife for leaving him. He cold use a back door to find out where she is then show up and do something illegal such as planting drugs in her home or car, or killing her. Then there's the fact that sooner or later some criminal organization will be discover how to use the back door for their purposes.
leaflock7@reddit
hmm China , ehm, I meant to say EU starts to to look quite the dystopian dictatorship for citizens.
I said it before, they give with the hand over the table , but they take with the hand under the table.
Lux_JoeStar@reddit
Good luck cracking my AES 256.
draoi28@reddit
AI can't break encryption though.
Positive-Role-9936@reddit
AI is not needed.
The United States literally has an entire agency of 30,000-40,000 (thousands of mathematicians and computer scientists) whose job it is to break encryption (NSA). There is no encryption on this earth that is not able to be broken or that the governments of the world don't already have backdoors for.
Whenever you see these government agencies struggling to get access into an iPhone, it's all theater to create the illusion that they can't access it so the public still has belief in the security algorithms.
Positive-Role-9936@reddit
The United States literally has an entire agency of 30,000-40,000 people those job it is to break encryption (NSA). There is nothing on this earth that is not able to be broken or that the governments of the world don't already have backdoors for.
MiPok24@reddit
They want to force the operating systems and chat apps to forward everything for scanning before it is encrypted ...
Then there is no need to break it
draoi28@reddit
Oh crazy, what about Linux?
MiPok24@reddit
They want to force any chat provider. Linux has no Chat service itself.
In such a case it's more like Signal, Threema, WhatsApp, Telegram, E-mail-clients, ...
goddale120@reddit
and how pray tell will these disgusting politicians handle out-of-continent communications? Pretty dang sure Europeans spying on my texts goes against Canadian privacy laws...
Julian_1_2_3_4_5@reddit
It would probably be made illegal to use ones that don't do it
Iwisp360@reddit
Ok, I use Linux, so no problem
MiPok24@reddit
They want to force any chat provider. Linux has no Chat service itself.
Do you use Signal, Threema, WhatsApp, Telegram,...? Then it's a problem for you, too.
Julian_1_2_3_4_5@reddit
i mean technically they canmt stop me from hosting,a matrix or xmpp server with e2e encryption, but that will only save the tech savy folks
spazturtle@reddit
Yes you could do that but then you would be operating an illegal E2E encrypted communication system and they could charge you.
Iwisp360@reddit
Damn boy
Bye_nao@reddit
Until they ban all compliant projects from distributing in backdoored distributions and packages in EU. Fine, maybe you can find a magnet link from deepweb or something, but most people? Won't bother or know how to.
Able-Reference754@reddit
Or just mandatory secure boot for consumer PCs and kernel backdoor requirements for signing :)
Locked bootloaders to force you into a spyware ecosystem are already a thing on Android.
Hugogs10@reddit
What if I encrypt it before sending?
redballooon@reddit
Again? Sigh! These people don’t get tired. Every time we say no they’ll just pull out the next surveillance bill. This has been going on for as long as I can remember, and before that there was no European Union.
AndrewZabar@reddit
All kinds of shit like this happens in all democratic nations. They are patient and persistent and determined. They’ll do it again and again with no end.
cyb3rfunk@reddit
And it only takes one time where a significant legislative body cracks and it becomes permanent.
AndrewZabar@reddit
Yurp. Just the right amount of payoff it’s only a matter of time. That’s why people should give a shit more than they do in general.
linmanfu@reddit
The OP is really a bit misleading. It says "the EU" is trying to restrict encryption, but according to the linked statement, the European Parliament has already rejected it. If anything, that means "the EU" is against it. The statement claims that some countries' governments have a new proposal, but doesn't name them.
B3_Kind_R3wind_@reddit (OP)
More info about this from a different source:
The good news is that many EU governments have not yet decided whether to go along with this final Belgian push for Chat Control mass surveillance, among them
Only Germany, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Austria and Poland are relatively clear that they will not support the proposal, but this is not sufficient for a “blocking minority”.
Iseja00@reddit
Sweden just changed their stance (and is also the ones who made the proposal to begin with) to being in favour of the new modified proposal. Only 2 parties in the swedish Parliament is agaisnt it now.
lordoftheclings@reddit
From what to what?
Iseja00@reddit
From mostly negative or neutral to positive, depending on which party you asked.
lordoftheclings@reddit
What is the Sweden Democrats' position?
Iseja00@reddit
Their official position is uncertain but the two in the EU parliament is against it.
lordoftheclings@reddit
That's good - re: the 2 in the EU parliament. Anyone who supports it should be shunned.
Iseja00@reddit
When speaking to other Swedes they either don't care or see this as a good thing so don't have your hopes up to much about shunning the other ones.
linmanfu@reddit
This source also confirms that the actions suggested in the OP (contacting representatives in Brussels) are useless. The proposal is being considered by Permanent Representatives en route to the Council of Ministers. So EU citizens need to contact the legislators and ministers in their own capitals, not their "reps in Brussels" who have little power to make policy at this stage.
I also disagree with Mr Berger's analysis saying that this is being pushed through now to "exploit the period" after the elections. The new Commission has to survive a series of live-or-die appointment votes in the next few months and the Belgian government has only just been formed. It's about the worst possible time for them to try to get such a stupid and contentious policy adopted, because the Commission and Council have less capacity for lobbying. So there's no need to panic.
AntLive9218@reddit
Did those "representatives" have a say earlier and they already blessed this, or are they actually powerless to represent the people in such a matter even if they wanted to?
Whichever the case is, I can't wait for the glorious future when "democracy" will just mean something like voting for how should a politician look like so some AI software could use that face whenever the dictator is shown in digital media, not like peasants would be allowed to see his majesty in person anyway.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating for anarchy or anything like that, but at this point I'd conclude that what we have failed some time ago. Picking the best liar every 4-5 years then hoping for the best is not democracy, no matter how much sugar is used to coat it. And the EU looks especially bad at it because it tries really hard to sugarcoat such issues, while with the fragmentation of region they are really not good at even pretending to understand the needs of all cultures.
linmanfu@reddit
Permanent Representatives in Brussels are something like an ambassador or the staff of the delegations to the Bundesrat (Federal Council) in Germany. Their job is to follow the instructions of their home government. If you want the Saxon government to vote a certain way in the Bundesrat, you need to write to your legislator in the Saxon Landtag (state parliament), not Berlin. If an ambassador disobeyed the instructions of their home government because of their personal opinion (even if it was based on letters from citizens), that is *un*democratic.
Again, you seem to have assumptions brought over from some other system. In Washington, senators are directly elected, but that's not the only way to do things. The EU system is different from the US, but it's still democratic.
metux-its@reddit
Perhaps we should just break apart from it.
Gro-Tsen@reddit
The outgoing European Parliament has rejected a past version of the proposal. This is indeed good news but in no way does it mean that we are out of the woods: the European Parliament has just been reelected (and I'm afraid the Pirate Party is now down to a single seat, from the Czech Republic), and the proposal has been altered in small ways which don't make it substantially less disastrous but might make it seem more acceptable to some lawmakers.
However, I agree that we shouldn't say “the EU” wants to do this or that: the EU Commission and some members of the EU Council (i.e., EU member states) want this — what Parliament wants is yet to be determined.
Afraid_Avocado_2767@reddit
I know this is a serious topic, however…
Seems fun 🦜🏴☠️🎉🎊
Gro-Tsen@reddit
Sadly, the fact that they have a silly sounding name may be one of the reasons they are not at all taken seriously in many countries.
metux-its@reddit
The EP doesnt have own legislative power. The commission (executive) has. EUSSR isn't a democracy. It's fascism. In the long run, we the people, have no other choice than exterminating it. Its a major threat to mankind as such.
lordoftheclings@reddit
Politicians are always trying to control you - invade your privacy - control what you do - see what you do - and they decide what you are allowed and not allowed to do.
They are evil - they need to base their controls on some sort of 'humanitarian' concept though - fighting child abuse - they chose for this - in order to justify it to the masses.
https://www.theverge.com/2024/6/19/24181214/eu-chat-control-law-propose-scanning-encrypted-messages-csam
codeasm@reddit
German ans dutch hackerscene wont allow this. Others probably neither. It wont fly europe
VasyanMosyan@reddit
Oh naive, naive child
codeasm@reddit
Bro, im in the scene. We dont allow this crap. We fight in european courts against this.
BetTall2589@reddit
Ai is too much
commodore512@reddit
You know when politics of my country is on here, people hate it and complain and don't want to see it.
I'll respond in a way they respond to my country.
"I'm so sick of European Politics, you dumb Europeans can't even switch to the Metric System, you Brits didn't use decimal money until 50 years ago. (I know Brexit, but still) You Brits still use Pints and Miles and the French that invented the Metric System doesn't use Metric Time and have no patience for normal everyday people who aren't scientists struggling with metric because the culture around them doesn't facilitate it even if they're open to it."
Satire Over
Nurpo_Venture@reddit
This is just a violation of privacy, but the privacy rabbit hole it's very deep. I use Brave instead of Google and Chrome, and I have plans of changing my email to something else more private, not like Gmail or Outlook.
Far_Number_@reddit
Can Linux protect you from NPU? Isn’t every NPU scanning and analyzing data before encryption no matter the model of chip (for example even A11 Bionic can do it) or the OS ? Isn’t the data analysis built in on the hardware level which makes it pointless to change OS?
cfs3corsair@reddit
Hey. As Tuta noted:
Anyone looking to take action and stand up against mass surveillance can learn more here: Council to greenlight Chat Control – Take action now! – Patrick Breyer 21
https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/
The vote has been postponed until Thursday. Let’s be loud, keep up the momentum, and together we can stop Chat Control!
AndrewZabar@reddit
In five years we’ll celebrate when the first hundred people have signed up! Yay! /s
Extreme-Ad-9290@reddit
Wow. so much for ***** you Nvidia. More like ***** you EU
Unslaadahsil@reddit
Unfortunately I live in Switzerland so we don't have a reps in Brussels.
CodeMurmurer@reddit
So what can i do?
mxmissile@reddit
Riot.
FrederikSchack@reddit
The EU dictators have really dropped the veil haven't they? But anyways, who to trust? What to trust? I don't trust Signal.....
ElizabethThomas44@reddit
Before AI projects that screw common people are implemented. we need to implement 4 major projects
Corruption Catcher AI Project:
This projects will analyze all the data of all people whose assets is more than a million usd across every country and also that of every elected mayor, minister, prime minister, president of every country.
90 percent of the major corruptions happen in people who have high wealth (hence minimum 1 million usd threshold) and politicians (no threshold)
Mis-mis-information Flagger AI Project:
Twitter and FB were caught for using fake reasons and flagging genuine content and mis information. Hence all such decision, the source data based on which those decisions were made, need to re-analyzed and flag for wrong findings. And all social media should pay penalty of USD 10k per mistake, and this money should be deposited to that social media platform's regular users bank account. Since common people were not allowed to see that info in time.
Wealthy people History Analyzer AI Project:
Every body whose assets is 1 million $ or more, needs to submit all their historical data - assets, cash flows, taxes, children school fees paid etc. And AI should flag illegal transaction.
AI Regulator Leaders Transparency AI Project
Any body who gets to decide how AI should evolve should share all their present and past emails. whatsapp, telegram, assets, bank account data for analysis. If any person might use his leadership influence for personal gains, that person should be banned from influencing AI for 20 years
yoroxid_@reddit
where's the source of this?
Able-Reference754@reddit
Intercepting communication is just thinking too small. Hook the open() (and the similar on other operating systems) syscall and scan files that are opened.
Get_the_instructions@reddit
Only possible on systems where the user does not have root access to their device, or the source code is closed. So all mobile devices, Android and Apple devices and Windows.
ArdiMaster@reddit
Until they require some verification scheme in which your ISP doesn’t let you go online with devices that don’t have this.
crazedizzled@reddit
Then the community will find some way to spoof it or work around it.
mu-7@reddit
The community still can't migrate to lemmy/fediverse. Don't hold much hope there.
Sammot123@reddit
Until they tivo-ize our hardware, allowing only signed operating systems to run, like some android phones and intel manegment engine.
Able-Reference754@reddit
and until the corporations haven't managed to push "secure (from the user) computing" with strict signing requirements for even open kernels if they want to access services.
metux-its@reddit
Just dont buy such crippled hardware.
Sammot123@reddit
We don't have any choice, that's where they will get us. Open hardware does not exist, look at the intel management engine, it's impossible to replace with a FOSS alternative because of hardware signing. And with laws like this, eventually every piece of hardware will be tivo-ized.
The only way I could see the free software community fighting back against this is with more restrictive licensing, like GPLv2 vs GPLv3 with it's tivo-ization clause. But even then, we are mostly powerless over our machines.
metux-its@reddit
It does exist, just not very powerful yet.
And there's lots of ARM based HW where you can control everything from stage0 bootloader (no BIOS/UEFI at all). In embedded world, that's usually mandatory.
a) it can be castrated down to a level where it's not likely to cause much (invisible) damage b) there're lots of non-intel SoCs without such stuff.
Such lawfare is certainly a danger to human kind, and we have to fight back, do everything we can to eliminate this EUSSR. Fortunately, the geopolitical situation doesn't look good for it's long-term survival (but we yet can't tell what comes after it).
The bigger plot is: we have a massive deep-state all over the world, trying to create some kind of high-tech neo-fascism, a global prison. For many dacades they've been staying in the dark, carefully engineering their spider's web. Fortunately, in recent years they became too arrogant and made huge mistakes. Meanwhile the air is getting thin for them, they're panicking and making even more mistakes, so their crimes slowly getting undenyable for even the naive and ignorant general public.
Don't ever give up. We the people are winning this. (and we have to - otherwise our grandchildren will be turned into The Borg).
a-plastic-bags@reddit
Screw it, I'm buying a typewriter. Have fun locking that down, nerds!
dpflug@reddit
Root no longer matters. Most systems in the past ~decade have had an entire OS included that we have little control over or insight into.
Makefile_dot_in@reddit
i mean, it's not very hard to root an android device, and the kernel has to be open source, so it should be possible to avoid on android to (you'd probably have to replace your whole ROM though, with things like knox and what not).
Irverter@reddit
That's true only for those that can be rooted. Others you simply can't, period.
Makefile_dot_in@reddit
just because the manufacturer doesn't provide a blessed way of doing it does not make it impossible, you know. jailbreakers have been playing a cat-and-mouse game with apple for ages.
but yeah, i'll concede that it is usually pretty difficult. I haven't really tried to root a huge variety of android devices, and I'm not american, so I didn't really have a clear image of which manufacturers allow you to root your devices and I haven't been directly affected by it
RaspberryPiBen@reddit
Some Android devices. US Samsung devices are pretty much impossible to root.
6e1a08c8047143c6869@reddit
That is the idea. In the current draft any file selected through the Select Image, Access Gallery, Read Image, etc. would be automatically scanned, hashed and stored on OS-side. It would be completely transparent for the messaging app using it, so sideloading apps would not help.
AntLive9218@reddit
"including services using E2EE"
One simple trick proprietary software apologists hate: E2EE is meaningless without a trusted platform, and "trust me bro" closed source locked down environments are just not good enough for private life needs.
newsflashjackass@reddit
could you elaborate on that?
Able-Reference754@reddit
So wait, they're also looking to detect just regular "images or videos with sexual connotation" as they can be exchanged in grooming attempts?
Jesus christ.
6e1a08c8047143c6869@reddit
Only if known CSAM is used in the attempt. The idea is to use perceptual hashing on the device side on any accessed images and compare these checksum with a database of known CSAM.
Of course once that system is in place it becomes increasingly hard to argue against opening the already existing mechanisms up for other crimes as well. How could you defend not using the already existing system to also help defend against terrorism, murder or other horrible crimes? Have you no heart? It would not even cost anything or take away any rights (that were not already taken away beforehand)!
This is one of these cases where the slippery slope is actually real. Child Sexual Abuse Material is merely the convenient first step because arguing against methods that supposedly protect children is a bad look.
Get_the_instructions@reddit
Give that AI can read normal text and deduce context and meaning (and will only get better), this becomes an irresistible attraction for all governments who wish to control the communications and thoughts of their populations (so basically all governments). Crime control is only the first ~~excuse~~ step.
MilesSand@reddit
Except AI can't deduce meaning or context. It was never designed to. Using AI like this just turns it into a more complex statistical guesswork algorithm based on keywords and key-phrases.
Try asking for an image of a 3 legged stool or a man painting a mountain; or a list of ten words made up of three syllables. Or any other prompt with some degree of specificity and right and wrong answers.
pt-guzzardo@reddit
(Windows Copilot) 3-legged stool: fail
(Windows Copilot) Man painting a mountain: success
(Claude 3.5 Sonnet) 10 words made up of three syllables: success
newsflashjackass@reddit
Next try asking it for a picture of doubt's shadow.
monkeynator@reddit
Eh I feel that, that form of argumentation is always comically cynical.
The real worry is more that greyzone area political parties can use to influence or down right abuse to gain an advantage, think Poland during PIS being in charge literally doxing peaceful anti-pis protestors on national TV.
Just because you got say no laws against disclosing individuals, doesn't mean you should do it.
Same thing here, just instead imagine the easy way to 'claim' that the opposition party highly liked members just 'happens' to be suspected of CSAM and thus we should be allowed to do a thorough search and disclosure of the content these people have on their computers.
Able-Reference754@reddit
Worse is better, that way they can gather data more broadly when things keep getting flagged as a false positive.
72kdieuwjwbfuei626@reddit
Can you elaborate on these perceptual hashes of murders?
6e1a08c8047143c6869@reddit
There can be incriminating files, pictures or videos of other crimes (or stuff the government doesn't approve of) as well? Be it propaganda videos of ISIS or a drug dealer sharing pictures of their new shipment. It's not a hard concept to grasp.
72kdieuwjwbfuei626@reddit
Okay. I got my answer. You don’t know what a perceptual hash is.
Firewolf06@reddit
its not a slippery slope, its wile e coyote before he looks down
it also sounds fairly easy to bypass with a bit of thinking and effort (i came up with three methods off the top of my head), so it will only be spying on average people, because anyone with anything to hide will hide it
grepe@reddit
I was also thinking this is not so bad from your description... then it hit me that once this is in place who's gonna say other things won't get added to that database eventually. People beimg tagged if they send or view picture of particular person ot a meme...
gnarlin@reddit
This is not a slippery slope. This is a cliff, because once the first step is taken the rest will all fall into place right quick.
leafWhirlpool69@reddit
possibly the dumbest idea I've ever heard
Able-Reference754@reddit
Ah yeah I read
and kind of interpreted it in a vacuum. makes more sense.
lezzmeister@reddit
Sending the wrong image or video on Discord or storing it on OneDrive is already an instant, even if innocent. They know they have false positives and on purpose refuse to filter them out because better safe than sorry.
Some EU countries already have databases used on every VPS or server (something that all hosting companies sign). Sometimes they mess up. They put the green list (known okay images) to also be red (instaan and report to cops). This is how I lost my VPS. They kept my money and never let me have my data. I can get it back and off the nono list if I sign an NDA and make no fuss. I refused.
crafter2k@reddit
i call this a gigantic waste of processing power
gvs77@reddit
I wonder where this will be forced on, Only mobile, only Apple and Scroogle? Or privacy OS's become illegal as well...
Analog_Account@reddit
Wasn't there a thing where people were using software to put stuff on their image that "poisons" the AI? Is this the next phase for privacy?
I listened to a Defcon talk on youtube about creating a bunch of fake social profiles and having them generate a whole tone of content to obfuscate legitimate social profile usage. They called it digital Spartacus I think.
CreatorGalvin@reddit
When I learned that Instagram was going to start using its users' content to train AI, I considered creating an account in which I would only post my cats' turds.
But maybe that idea was juvenile, so I did nothing.
chaosgirl93@reddit
Yes, it's juvenile.
No, that is not a good reason not to do it. Cat turds tagged as something else sound like a hilarious way to poison AI.
Although, I am aware I have the sense of humour of a young boy, so I may not be well equipped to judge if toilet humour is juvenile.
Analog_Account@reddit
As long as you tag and describe everything as stuff that isn't turds.
CreatorGalvin@reddit
Yeah I thought about changing the metadata to include words like "cute", "cat", "kitty" and alike.
MustangBarry@reddit
I'm not in the EU. 🇬🇧
I use Telegram 🇷🇺
draoi28@reddit
Signal is better.
MustangBarry@reddit
Can't send 2GB files over Signal
newsflashjackass@reddit
"Can't pound nails with a featherduster."
MustangBarry@reddit
I trust them more than I trust the Americans, mate.
newsflashjackass@reddit
cry key
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma
MustangBarry@reddit
Nice completely urelated and irrelevant link, thanks. I see you learned the words 'logical fallacy' this week.
gmes78@reddit
Who cares?
draoi28@reddit
For normal messaging Signal is more secure than Telegram.
MustangBarry@reddit
I don't doubt it, but it's not a replacement for Telegram any more than SMS is a replacement for WhatsApp. They serve different purposes
draoi28@reddit
I use them all, but Signal is my favorite.
draoi28@reddit
Telegram doesn't even enable E2EE by default.
newsflashjackass@reddit
Session is a Signal fork that does not rely on central servers or require users to provide a valid phone number.
https://getsession.org/
zeanox@reddit
The impact will be felt outside of the EU as well.
MustangBarry@reddit
Yeah I was being flippant. The EU over-reaching with its powers is the only basis upon which I sympathise somewhat with the otherwise catastrophic Brexit vote. Protect your citizens, sure, but never at the expense of privacy. That's a slippery slope with no bottom.
zeanox@reddit
Just to clarify im fully against the proposal.
kapitaali_com@reddit
well it's not any less insane than Microsoft screenshotting your desktop every 1 seconds
DJGloegg@reddit
At least i can disable it
newsflashjackass@reddit
I bet you call it "the Intel Manageability Engine" too.
natermer@reddit
The difference is that when Microsoft makes idiotic decisions people can tell Microsoft to go fuck themselves and use something else. Microsoft's ability to make money is then impacted.
It doesn't work that way when dealing with governments. You are required to obey and keep giving them money no matter how stupid they are.
Julian_1_2_3_4_5@reddit
well microsoft has been abusing it's monopoly for years now :/ And well here you can at least switch to linux, this proposal would make using software that doesn't allow it illegal
chaosgirl93@reddit
At least with that, you can most likely choose to not use Windows. Or at least not use it except for the handful of Windows only proprietary software you can't not use.
JackDostoevsky@reddit
is it an unpopular opinion to believe that you shouldn't use any sort of End to End encryption that is susceptible to AI-based attacks, especially the kind of inept work done by government? I have a lot of trust in Signal and I assume they'll be able to defend against any such attempts.
Impys@reddit
The problem is not that e2e is vulnerable to ai-based attacks. The problem is that proposals like this circumvents e2e by legislating the installation of spyware on the device.
And they get to pretend it is "privacy friendly" by having a first check done on-device by ai.
Fnordinger@reddit
The proposal is to make it mandatory to scan the content before it is encrypted. So there won’t really be a legal way around the scanning and no encryption has to be hacked.
FierceDispersion@reddit
Source: https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/chat-control-politicians-industry-raise-alarm-over-eus-unprecedented-messenger-surveillance-plans/
pds314@reddit
Can your proposal be easily defeated with cheat engine or by forking a project and deleting the contraband database while fundamentally damaging online privacy? Then it is a bad proposal.
atticus-fetch@reddit
I'm sure it's being done in the name of freedom for all.
Monsieur2968@reddit
I don't get how they think they can enforce this... 30 years ago sure, but nowadays?
dedseqBash@reddit
So they want to have access to your crap but they don't want to be ruled by the same law? LOL
there is no in between
fossfan83@reddit
This does not look great. EU should be force for good, not bad!
ODByall@reddit
I heard ages ago wikr was compromised NSA using that =/ this seems like a sad time
ODByall@reddit
yeah we definitely a war at this point =/
ravenous_fringe@reddit
This what Europe is. Those "fundamental concepts of privacy" are principles of the American constitution and culture. No citizen of the EU can expect their elected representatives to have any notion of how important privacy is.
metux-its@reddit
Lets employ AI to eliminate the EUSSR. Parasites that are just plunging us anyways.
jr735@reddit
Phil Zimmerman said over 20 years ago that all email (at least where feasible) should be encrypted, so as to make plans like this (which have come about time and again) a lot less workable.
arkane-linux@reddit
This is almost undoable from a technical perspective, and "AI" is not going to change this.
Powerful_Peace_4062@reddit
WTF!
CryptoSaffa@reddit
The EU is the enemy of true Europeans and of humanity as a whole.
SnooHamsters5248@reddit
LOL 95% of people use Window, android, or iOS regularly. Like it or not everything most people say and do is going to be logged in one way or another. We all know they will take and upload screen shots and key logs of everything you do. I guess if you want to switch to some sort of Lora or similar network, fine but accept that digital privacy is dead for most humans.
Swedish_Luigi_16@reddit
I was starting to think that the EU was better than the US in regards to data collection laws, but this..
ParticularIcy8705@reddit
Remember Russia and China are the bad guys tho
Linneris@reddit
Russia is much worse.
ParticularIcy8705@reddit
Thats what the same people who are stealing your data told you.
Linneris@reddit
I come from Russia. I know what I'm talking about.
ParticularIcy8705@reddit
Everyone is allowed an opinion. Sir, this is the internet.
a-plastic-bags@reddit
And conversely, everyone is allowed to disagree with you. No one here has stopped you from having this opinion, they've only pointed out how nonsensical it is.
ParticularIcy8705@reddit
And you *think* that, that is the case in Russia. Now go Google 'Protests Russia'
Try and *think* for yourself instead of just consooming what the tv dictates to you.
gmes78@reddit
Are you really saying that the Russia who wanted every citizen to install a root TLS certificate so they could man-in-the-middle every HTTPS connection respects your privacy?
Death-by-Fugu@reddit
Go figure that enabling a gigantic block of right wing lunatics by granting them status as MPs would curtail the rights of citizens. Whodathunkit?
Sammot123@reddit
This doesn't seem to be partisan, it's authoritarian
tldrthestoryofmylife@reddit
Just develop stronger cryptography and make it harder for em
Sammot123@reddit
Key escrows, look them up
Sinaaaa@reddit
The legislation wants to sidestep encryption altogether, please read the article.
cipricusss@reddit
And ALSO go to vote against authoritarian politicians. As long as democracy and the rule of law stand, we don't have to fear our governments. When we lose democracy because of peoples' depoliticization it is too late to try to save our privacy. The two go together.
denniot@reddit
EU loves invading privacy nowadays. There are political parties that claim they are going to respect the privacy and freedom, but they are usually considered extreme right wing.
I don't think no matter how hard they try, they can decrypt my gpg encrypted emails though. I'd love to be proven wrong.
WeedlnlBeer@reddit
Wouldn't this only work on centralized apps like axcrypt. Can't regulate deregulated apps
IHaveTwoOfYou@reddit
The AI will be too stupid to really decrypt anything anyways
Coammanderdata@reddit
I don't know if we should scan user data, but if they absolutely have to, they should be using privacy preserving methods like Fully Homomorphic Encryption to keep end to end encryption, but also analyse the data.
If we would apply a neural network on the encrypted data packet sent by one user, the recipient would receive the data packet, and an encrypted output of the neural network. If this would indicate to contain CSAM material, the chat client could sensor the message. The data packet would still only be visible to the end users, preserving end to end encryption, since thanks to FHE the data would not be decrypted during the processing
Coammanderdata@reddit
It was not passed, fortunately
Zettinator@reddit
It's always the same idiots that try to push for these kinds of surveillance legislation. This has been going on for over a decade... even if the current "chat control" proposal fails, we still need to be watchful, they will try again.
teamredpill@reddit
rules for the peasants not for the tribal elites.
OldLack8614@reddit
The internet was intended to be free and anonymous, but ended up being nothing but a method of control. It gave governments the means to implement total surveillance. Then, AI has made it a million times worse
j0e74@reddit
Control for the masses. Soon it will be "illegal" to protect your privacy.
whiphubley@reddit
see...brexit isn't all that bad after all :-)
AnonNetUser@reddit
And how much will this cost EU citizens? How will this be paid for? EU bureaucracy is already pathologically overgrown to grotesque levels.
temmiesayshoi@reddit
Wow, its almost like when you give politicians the right to legislate your devices, they're going to legislate your devices!
"I want my iPhone to have USB!" and the monkey's paw curled.
Let this serve as yet another reminder why you don't cut through the law to get at the devil.
Desperate-Bag-6543@reddit
WE MUST PROTEST!!!! this is absolutely wrong, talk about freedom and privacy
Metalpen22@reddit
I am skeptical about that. Since the right wing parties win so much, I don't expect to get our own freedom now.
Julian_1_2_3_4_5@reddit
https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/posts/chat-control/ I know why i choose the pirate party
TampaPowers@reddit
How is that supposed to work? Pattern recognition on random bytes? At the datarates that come about when 300 million people text for AI to go through and waste a couple GPUs worth of compute power trying to find something that might hint at suspicious activity? Neither the net nor the compute power is there to handle any of it. It's another EU "law" aimed at giving them the power to go after problematic entities and such. Just as gdpr doesn't even apply to 90% of things on the net and just provides the EU with a way to impose massive fines. They ain't gonna bother with the small fry when they know that'll fall inline when the big fines make the news.
Also posting a link to something signal has said on that is not exactly transparent either. They are as much an echo chamber as the lobby, er sorry sponsorship, parties the EU reps get treated to.
Michaelmrose@reddit
Basically devices are going to be shipping with enough compute to run simple models and simple models are going to get more capable especially of simple use cases. You could have a local model read all your messages and then explicitly rat you out if you were planning to in its estimation commit a crime.
This of course ignores the fact that given a chance people wouldn't willingly communicate anything incriminating via snitchware and those who are actually planning crimes would be liable to use simple old shit to avoid snitchware so in short order the only thing you are going to get is false positives.
TampaPowers@reddit
That and putting anything into user hands... it'll have a remove script faster than the news can report the tech shipped.
Bombini_Bombus@reddit
I absolutely agree, as long as these three conditions are strictly respected: - everyone and anyone is under control - there's an open list of the reports where anyone and everyone can freely have access to anytime - reports are devoid of any information, except for the mere content of the communication itself
Sinaaaa@reddit
You have really not thought this through.
GentleDomFanatic@reddit
I'm kinda convinced by this point the people lobbying oh wait I mean "sponsoring" this type of legislation not just in the EU but around the world want to make using technology so terrible and unsafe that it would send us back to the dark ages, people would just not bother with it anymore and start writing letters with pen and paper again.
Tsiox@reddit
No one has demonstrated an effective solution to breaking AES, AI or not. This is little minds getting wound up about science fiction.
Time to worry is when you hear about Signal changing their encryption algorithm.
WhyEveryUnameIsTaken@reddit
Thanks for raising the attention!!
monkeynator@reddit
The messed up part is that not even China/Russia has this kind of draconian technology afaik, there's been rumors of it but not sufficient evidence to show that to be the case.
Raunien@reddit
Meanwhile, they blocked plans by Facebook to use user data from inside the EU to train AI. The EU giveth, the EU taketh away.
metux-its@reddit
This yet another attack on human rights is just another coffin nail for the EUSSR.
dark-lord90@reddit
Finally, maybe now people will start seeing the true evil of unelected bureaucrats controlling their life. If I have to bet, nothing will happen and that law will be implemented.
yonasismad@reddit
No, they won't. It's summer in Europe and there's a big football tournament going on, which means people are out getting drunk and paying even less attention than usual. Governments are notorious for using this time to push through controversial laws and other stupid projects.
My only hope now is that a EU court will strike this initiative down.
dark-lord90@reddit
And if they don’t? We will find a way.
shodan5000@reddit
"Representatives"
Lmao
daniel-sousa-me@reddit
Have you ever tried contacting them? They do actually answer and talk with you
ric2b@reddit
I actually did, a few weeks ago. No reply yet.
Victor_Quebec@reddit
Years (or maybe months) will pass and Europeans (and Westerners in general) will hopefully understand the negative consequences of their own harmful propaganda of liberal values, that Russia was not bad at all, and will start packing suitcases to move to... Russia or another country, where the human dignity (not negative freedoms) and indiscriminate relations, respect for elders and family values, and the true love of God are preserved in almost entirety.
xternal7@reddit
lol
Jeoshua@reddit
If anyone is going to be able to rein in the rampant overuse of AI and invasions of privacy, it's the EU. It's happened before. I would call and harrass some reps myself, but I'm a "dirty American" so I don't get a say. But I will say the EU often does what the US cannot in these matters, and urge you all to listen to OP and not to sleep on this.
AlexandruFredward@reddit
Just because you;re an American doesn't mean you cannot contact these politicians and complain. As soon as you access a European server, you are their victim. This not an isolated incident. This will impact the entire world.
wideace99@reddit
Democracy has died long time ago... we just have idiocracy.
jman6495@reddit
Parliament has voted against this, you need to contact your member state's government about this.
tukanoid@reddit
We turning into Russia or what?
ManicChad@reddit
We had this problem with Apple. Nobody talks about bad actors sending this material to regular folks to have them falsely arrested or bribed etc. There’s too much potential for abuse. They’ll literally say well you received it so you must be an abuser and turn your life inside out before they figure out some groups are abusing the system for this exact result.
This. Instead of police doing actual work to find creeps.
xmBQWugdxjaA@reddit
We don't get a vote. The EU isn't democratic, it's like China where Von der Leyen is just chosen internally.
linmanfu@reddit
This is just flat wrong; the European Parliament was elected last week and must approve the new Commission.
xmBQWugdxjaA@reddit
But only the Commission proposes the acts, not the Parliament.
So it's mostly a joke, that's why the countries elect joke politicians, or "promote" unwanted politicians there (like von der Leyen herself).
The Commission will be rubber-stamped by Parliament, as the EPP is the biggest group by far, and this Act likely will be too.
linmanfu@reddit
So the party that won the election will lead the government. That's democracy.
The linked statement says that encryption was rejected by the last European Parliament. So on the specific example that you chose, they've already proved that they're not a rubber-stamp.
This is common in Westminster systems. It's not how things are done in the USA, but democracy wasn't invented there and Europeans can do things differently.
I agree that the European elections often are not taken seriously enough, but a large cause of that is that too many people believe the myths that you are repeating here. Democracy does require people to vote wisely. You're entitled to dislike Ms Von der Leyen, but her party won.
xmBQWugdxjaA@reddit
I'm not American, I live in Europe - everyone here knows it's a joke. Most countries have turnouts barely above 20% for the European parliament.
QutanAste@reddit
What ? What is your source on this, turnout is higher than 50% in average with only a handful of country being "barely above 20%"
zeanox@reddit
what a bullshit statement to throw out. the president of the European commission is chosen by the European council, that is made up be democratically elected leaders from the member states. Then the president has to be approved by the the European parlament, which is directly chosen by the EU citizens.
Von der Leyen is not "chosen internally" what ever that means.
Please tell me again how it's just like china?
xmBQWugdxjaA@reddit
It's very similar - the Council is similar to China's Politburo, and the Parliament to their National Congress.
zeanox@reddit
explain?
BppnfvbanyOnxre@reddit
If you're in the EU you get to vote for your MEP, harrang them.
RudePragmatist@reddit
I don’t care if they know I use encryption. If we al use it then they wont have enough resources to watch all of us in an old school fashion. Which would be their only recourse.
FatStoic@reddit
With AI they can.
jabedude@reddit
The EUs main export are inane regulations
HotRepresentative325@reddit
Don't worry about this sort of thing, it never makes into law. A few years ago, the UK government wanted to ban the encryption of messages.
gvs77@reddit
'Our' reps in Brussels are exactly the problem. You could see this coming from miles away and the further politicians are removed from the people, the more evil they get.
Outrageous_Trade_303@reddit
It can't be implemented and work in practice, although it would be fun to see EU imposing a backdoor in microsoft's 365 communications. How long do you think it will take for that backdoor to be discovered and what do you think will follow? It would be fun to watch! In the mean time I guess that the foss world will implement plugins in order to have communications pre encrypted using gpg or any other tool before the message reaches any platform :)
HateActiveDirectory@reddit
The EU can suck my dick, I'm gonna host my own texting service.
TheUruz@reddit
i really hope some IT guy will be heard in EU parlament about this...
YouMeanNothingToMe@reddit
Bold of them to assume I send private messages.
BoltLayman@reddit
It is so embarrassing that EU-AI has all the encryption keys. I suspect they already created those photonic super computers that break the code in milliseconds, like routers pass TCP/IP packets...
MiPok24@reddit
They don't want the AI to break encryption itself.
The plan is to leak everything before it is encrypted. They want to do this by forcing Apps and Operating Systems to forward data for scanning before it is encrypted.
QutanAste@reddit
man imagine the field day hackers would get
Solid_Lettuce3367@reddit
“call and harass your reps”
Man this is europe. If anything they will call and harass you.