What other episodes could have resolved sooner using boring actual logic and not cool tv show logic?
Posted by PicardCrusherData@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 217 comments
BigMD86672@reddit
"Darmok"
"Look, there's absolutely no way you could develop faster-than-light travel only speaking in long metaphors. You don't need a metaphor for 'pass me the wrench.' How would you even teach kids those metaphors without a base understanding of language? You can't teach them 'Shaka, when the walls fell' without teaching them what a wall is. So just talk normal."
frustratedComments@reddit
Honestly this is my least favorite episode of them all. I don’t get why it’s so popular. It’s fucking annoying.
agnosticnixie@reddit
It's the metaphor more than anything, Trek has never done allegory subtly (I think the most subtle they've ever been were the two references to DC Fontana in DS9).
BigMD86672@reddit
I get that it's got a good message about overcoming differences, but, yeah, the story logic implodes faster than an Oberth-class ship against a Borg cube if you think about it at all.
CalmPanic402@reddit
Can read people's DNA from orbit.
Looses track of crewmembers with great regularity.
"Mr O'Brian, beam up the only human on the planet."
sunplaysbass@reddit
There’s some kind of interference I’m try to compensate…
CalmPanic402@reddit
Damn. If only they carried some kind of small transmitter on them... oh well, beam a 20 square foot area around their location into cargo bay two.
caulkglobs@reddit
Nah theres a tachyon field on the planet.
Winter_cat_999392@reddit
Also, on arriving at an unknown planet, deploy a ring of probes that assume equatorial and polar geosynchronous orbit to bounce signals and scans around from the other side of the planet when it is in the way. Collect them before leaving.
Lost_Respond1969@reddit
Try reversing the polarity
buzzbash@reddit
Ion storms.
PangolinMandolin@reddit
That could have been a good way to try and get a spy on board a federation ship if you're the Roms or Cards.
TheDoughMonster@reddit
Conundrum: MacDuff could just have made himself the captain instead of the first officer. What is the deal with that? Am I missing something here?
countdoofie@reddit
“Sorry Wesley… prime directive says we have to let them murder you. Bye.”
This was written when Rodenberry was still alive, so the skimpy outfits and goofy plot goes with the territory.
Qu90@reddit
I think the actual resolution to this problem is quiet hard, if you want to respect the alien culture and keep in line with the prime directive. The real problem is, that they don't learn enough about the culture before beaming down. This problem should never have occurred.
Unit_79@reddit
Yeah this was on Tasha. “Common sense stuff” shouldn’t include random areas being patrolled with death as the one and only sentence.
Who fucking wrote this shit?
Qu90@reddit
Plus, why do they let a kid come to a first contact situation, even if it is Wesley. I enjoyed the moral discussion nevertheless.
DangerBrewin@reddit
Picard knew this was likely Wesley’s only chance at getting laid on his own. If it didn’t happen on the horny free-love sex planet, Picard knew he’d probably have to take him to some sleazy Orion brothel on his 21st birthday.
laughmath@reddit
He should have been prepping Wesley for weeks in the holodeck. Just not quite a competent job all around this mission.
TheFeshy@reddit
Counterpoint: Wesley's terrible game is after weeks of prep in the holodeck.
1337w33d5@reddit
This is the spin off series we needed. The Orion Brothel Syndicate.
Collective82@reddit
I wonder how well it would work though.
If you knew committing a crime could get you killed, are you still going to do it?
Look at Singapore, they have some of the lowest crime rates in the world, but some of the harshest penalties too.
Squirrelonastik@reddit
It's not about the severity of the punishment, but the assurance of it.
If you know a 100 fine is guaranteed if you step 1 foot on the grass, you're highly unlikely to do so.
People (mostly) break laws with the thought process of "surely I won't get caught! Just this one time and I'll be fine!"
Collective82@reddit
That’s an interesting point too.
trashacct8484@reddit
In a world where the penalty applies to falling into a garden you would think the kids would play frisbee in the dedicated no-kill zone then. It’s not that Wesley didn’t know; it was that his local friends didn’t tell him.
Collective82@reddit
The fact that it was so easy to happen was on the locals, and Tasha for not briefing them that every crime is punishable by death lol
But you are right, they shouldn’t have been playing frisbee near flowers, because what happens when the frisbee goes on? Do they just abandon it? Or is the crime the frisbee “vandalizing” the flower bed enough too?
Koomaster@reddit
In that case who gets charged for the crime? The owner of the frisbee? The person who threw it? Or the person who didn’t catch it?
No_Good_Cowboy@reddit
What if the thrower was outside the death zone and the Frisbee landed in the death zone?
Collective82@reddit
Half death.
Collective82@reddit
Probably the thrower would be my guess.
WatchOutHesBehindYou@reddit
The frisbee is sentenced to death by hydraulic press
DragonRoar87@reddit
damn, that was my favorite Frisbee! :(
MainFrosting8206@reddit
That Frisbee also tore the labels off mattresses so it was doomed anyway.
AJSLS6@reddit
In our own world we know deterrence doesn't have much of an effect, a death sentence for walking on grass might keep people off the grass purposely, but accidents happen and killing otherwise innocent people would likely lead to unrest. More importantly though is that death sentences don't deter serious crimes at all, and if walking on grass = death are you really being phased as a would be rapist murderer or some other serious crime?
Ayjayz@reddit
It obviously has a huge effect. Everyone follows laws they don't want to follow out of fear they'll get punished. No-one would pay taxes if they weren't scared they'd lose all their stuff and go to jail.
Not all deterrents work in all circumstances everywhere, but deterrents clearly can and do work.
Collective82@reddit
But if all crime is treated as equal, does it matter? It’s a blanket rule, no nuance.
Walterpoe1@reddit
So killing one person has the same resulting punishment as stepping across a line so why not kill a guy if you already stepped across the line?
raspberry-tart@reddit
yeah, she really skimped on the risk assessment. I would imagine it would have whole pages about legal risks etc, that is exactly her job as chief of security.
socialcommentary2000@reddit
To be fair, this was one of the generally agreed upon corniest episodes they ever put out. Season 1 was rough in parts.
CaptainMatticus@reddit
That's Roddenberry's influence, through-and-through. He had a great concept, and a few good ideas, but a lot of bad ideas, too. He wanted a future where all interpersonal conflict was a thing of the past. It's a great dream, but horrible for TV drama. Once he stepped away and let the writers get more independence, the show got so much better. For instance, we got the Borg, who were cool and frightening...until they were overused and turned into Space Bees... But overall, the show got better.
Unit_79@reddit
That was the joke.
Practical-Purchase-9@reddit
It’s a hang over from Original Trek, instead of writing something thought provoking you get these tedious stories where an alien culture has no depth and is built about a single conceit. Like a planet of warrior women, a planet without children, a planet where everything is settled by fights to the death, a planet where there are no laws… except Tuesdays, when everything is a death.
Theborgiseverywhere@reddit
Classic Gene
PandemicSoul@reddit
More like: Classic scifi. For the 30 years leading up to this episode, Asimov’s and other pulp scifi mags were pumping out these kinds of stories every month — discrete, morality play-like tales examining one concept.
If you look at TOS, TNG S1&2, and even SNW you can see this pattern quite clearly. Then draw the thru line to other shows like The Twilight Zone.
sqplanetarium@reddit
Planet of Hats is a common trope (or problem) in lots of sci fi. (Warning about the link there: it's for tvtropes, so if you go there prepare for a 4 hour rabbit hole.)
Practical-Purchase-9@reddit
I should have known there was a Trope, just couldn’t guess what it would be called.
Unit_79@reddit
Oh I’m familiar with morality tales.
Icarus367@reddit
I think part of the problem is believing that there's some sort of imperative to implicitly "respect" other cultures. Like, no, if something's fucked up and wrong, then it should absolutely be abolished, whether it's part of a "culture" or not. Female genital mutilation is part of certain cultures, and yet is horrible and should be abolished. Likewise, it should have taken about 5 seconds to see that the arbitrary and too-harsh rules of these scantily-clad simpletons and their out-of-focus god weren't even worth bothering with.
Qu90@reddit
That's an interesting point.
I truly think there is such an imperative, because otherwise you start thinking that your culture and way of doing things is inherently better than others. I mean, of course one would think so to a certain degree, because why choose to live a certain way otherwise. But there's two points to that:
1.) You can't truly be sure, that your way of doing things is better. Doubt about your own choices is very important, in my opinion. It leads to a form of open mind about things and to a dynamic and changing society, that always tries to improve in itself. If you strongly believe every thing in your culture is right, then change and improvement is hard to come by. That also means that you have to respect other cultures. It doesn't meat that you have to approve of everything or even do it yourself but it totally means to not impose your values on others, if they don't harm you or don't want to. That leads me to the second part.
2.) Choice. That's a big part. If people choose a certain way of living and don't interfere with other peoples choices, do you think it's fair to stomp around and tell them that their way is wrong? If it doesn't have an impact on you, doesn't directly interfere in your ways, just let them live their lives, even if you think it's not good. Imposing your values means a certain amount of "violence" and "force". I think you can't really change something fundamentally, if it doesn't come from them itself. That being said, I also believe that the prime directive is rubbish in a specific way. If the whole society is open for change why would you not interact with them? And if somebody from that society wants help you should also provide it. The least thing you can do is grant asylum. Helping them overthrow a corrupt government for example should also be a point. Because the change started in their own society and it's a majority that wants this change. Otherwise you can only lead the way by example and hope they change their minds. But one has to tread this line very carefully and way every situation. It would have been perfect for Star Trek but the choose to implement this rule the way they did.
Icarus367@reddit
I agree that doubt, skepticism, and self-evaluation is always important, but we generally don't require certainty or surety in justifying our beliefs and practices. One can be open-minded, but, as Carl Sagan said, not so much so that your brains fall out. I think there are times that imposing one's values on others in the name of what's right or good is justified, and even morally obligatory. When the Allies liberated Nazi concentration camps, for instance, there was probably not much consternation that we were imposing certain values on German society by the use of force. (I know that America's entering WW2 was domestically contentious from a foreign policy/political standpoint, but I'm here only speaking of ethical considerations.)
Likewise, when India was colonized by the U.K., the English authorities rightly put an end to the practice of sati (killing widows along with their deceased husbands), despite this being a part of Indian "culture," as the practice was barbaric, and needed to stop. (And I am by no means offering a wholesale endorsement of colonization, I'm only speaking to this particular point.)
As far as the "not harming you" statement, in the case of Justice, the point is that a member of the crew (i.e. Wesley) was going to be harmed, which made their silly legal system a matter of importance for the Federation. Even ignoring the inconsistent characterization and application of the Prime Directive on TNG, I think Picard was right to disregard their ridiculous legal system to rescue Wesley (and the Edo even suggested that he do so, as they themselves clearly didn't want Wesley to die, but they felt compelled to follow the letter of the law). In fact, I think Picard if anything took far too long to reach this decision, as even a few moments' reflection should have told him he wasn't going to let Beverly's kid die because he accidentally damaged some flowers.
Qu90@reddit
You have some really good points there but I still don't agree completely. Let me explain:
I agree that we don't need complete certainty to justify practices and believes. It's a physical impossibility to really be sure about your own way of life. Your believes are ultimately an imperfect model of reality and need constant updates. But that's exactly why you have to be even more careful when interacting with another culture.
I believe that your example of the allies liberating concentration camps don't really fit my arguments in two ways. Firstly I stated that the other civilizations way of life shouldn't interfere with other civs way of life. The Nazi attacking and occupying other countries and killing millions is clearly a case of interfering with other people. Next, there was a significant resistance movement even in Germany and the occupied countries and a lot of people didn't know what was happening. So a resistance movement already started from within. I'm totally with you, when you say, that we were morally obliged to interfere in these conditions, and the Allies were asked to help. (But I don't think the Allies acted out of moral consideration, but that's neither here nor there)
Secondly almost every culture and civilization on our planet is interconnected with each other. The deeds of one country almost always have global consequences (even if they are not that big). So there is a point to be made that this is distinctly different from interstellar interactions. These civilizations literally exist in a vacuum. Of course they can act in an interstellar fashion and have influence over other planets (if warp civs) but the default is being confined to your own planet or planetary system.
Your next point of U.K. rule during Indian colonization is exactly one of those cases that are dangerous. Of course I agree with you that this is a barbaric practice but if you start interfering with a culture because your morals are different, where do you stop? With this line of thinking one could easily justify the whole colonization. Like I said, I agree with you on that this practice is barbaric but how should one act here? I think the right way would be to help those, who don't want to participate in this. For example by granting asylum. The other way is by showing the society that there are different ways of doing things and to support change from the inside. Like I said before, real lasting change has to occur from the inside and can only be helped from outside.
And lastly your point about this specific episode. Of course Picard should have rescued Wesley but that doesn't make this whole situation right in the first place. Nobody asked the federation to visit this planet. So to say, your rules don't apply to me because they are stupid, is wrong in my opinion. If you don't like how things are done, don't visit the planet then. These people get by just fine and are clearly not interested in changing their laws just yet. That's why a first contact situation has to be carefully planned and prepared. You can't just beam down and mingle in the general population and you especially shouldn't bring a child or someone not trained in first contact situations. I mean, if you visit another country and break the law there, is it ok to just ignore it, because you think it's stupid? You can't put yourself in situations you're not familiar with and then expect things to go like you want.
jumbee85@reddit
The prime directive was constantly being violated
AAA515@reddit
Sure but covertly surveil a species for generations and they're gonna start believing you are behind all the conspiracies. Then you got the problems that occur when your totally some how legal cloaking device fails, and then the Android goes crazy and needs reset via Gilbert and Sullivan!
Mikey9124x@reddit
Even if you do want to obey it a child's life is at stake and you have the tech to just save him and leave
Qu90@reddit
That's the point, I was trying to make. You shouldn't have brought a kid on a first contact mission in the first place.
Additionally, they tried to leave and the Edo guardian wouldn't let them.
RetroGamer87@reddit
I thought the prime directive was only for pre-warp civilizations. If these people are allowed to know of you're existence they're allowed to be interfered with.
Was it interference when the Federation fought wars against various warp capable species?
Mikey9124x@reddit
So like the prime directive says no interacting with prewarps at all but it also has rules for post warp civilizations like don't fuck with their government.
Qu90@reddit
I think there were many instances were the Prime Directive was used for interacting with warp civilizations. Strictly speaking they weren't allowed to make direct contact with pre-warp civs only to observe. Why they contacted the Edo is a mystery to me, it seems like a pre-warp civ.
And fighting against an outside aggressor is something completely different. I mean what are you supposed to do? Just let them destroy you?
RetroGamer87@reddit
What if the aggressor is pre-warp and you can't save yourself without revealing your advanced technology.
You were observed them and they thought you were an enemy spy. They have guards watching you in your cell around the clock and your execution is scheduled for tomorrow morning.
Should you beam out right before their eyes or should you let them destroy you?
Qu90@reddit
Do you really think a pre-warp society could realistically be any threat to a pre-warp society in an aggressor position? They wouldn't even be able to reach federation space. And even if it was so, do you think the Federation would just blast them out of orbit? If you attack as pre-warp, then you are clearly aware that there are more advanced civs out there. And anybody who attacks you, has the right to defend themselves. I don't think that the prime directive is of importance here.
To react to your example:
What you described is nowhere near a "war"-scenario between two civilizations. It could realistically happen in the Star Trek universe and I believe similar situations were shown before. So there is a point to be made, that the prime directive would be of importance here and how you solve this problem would probably depend on how much influence each solution has on the development of the society. I personally think that beaming someone out of such a situation would be the best option, because it does reveal nothing important about the federation. In an extreme case it would just be a mystery to the pre-warp civ.
RetroGamer87@reddit
Yes I wasn't describing a war scenario. I thought that was obvious.
Qu90@reddit
Yes, sure, but we talked about how the prime directive would be used in such a scenario. So, I'm not sure, why you brought that up.
MaulerX@reddit
Tasha specifically said they looked over all of the laws of the Edo's society. But there was no mention of punishments. It was the fault of the Edo for not sending a complete document/report.
Qu90@reddit
Seems to be wild, when the Edo are asked to share their laws, not to mention one of the core laws. I think they also explained that this practice is the reason for their supposed ideal society (I think it's extremely stupid and wouldn't result in such a society). Why would they not mention it? It might be possible, that this was so, but then it's very lazy writing.
Winter_cat_999392@reddit
The Aztecs had absolutely beautiful cities of whitewashed and brightly colored buildings, markets and sporting event venues, clean streets, trash collection, redundant clean aqueducts, medicine, astronomy and science and complex recipes for dishes that exist to this day.
They also practiced extremely gory human sacrifice in public.
That would also be a surprise for a visitor.
Qu90@reddit
That is absolutely true. But I think there is a big difference in human sacrifice and having the death penalty for every small infraction. But you still have a point there. Would be interesting to see, how Aztec society would have developed if not disturbed by Europeans and what kind of values they would have today. I'm not really familiar with their society so it would even be interesting to see what morals and values they had at the time.
PangolinMandolin@reddit
Plus, if the crew did try to resolve it like in the picture then I'm guessing the Edo Guardian would have stopped them transporting anyway
trashacct8484@reddit
Been a while since I’ve watched this one. Isn’t that exactly what Picard did at the end? Give a lawyer Picard closing argument and then teleport Wesley away?
IntrepidusX@reddit
Made a strong legal argument while the Enterprises lawyer got another bourbon from the replicator.
Qu90@reddit
That seems very likely. But in the end they did it anyway. Didn't Picard reason his way out of this? I really like the thing he said at the end: "There can be no justice, so long as laws are absolute."
hobo__spider@reddit
God, I can hear his voice when reading this
NewLife_21@reddit
Sir Patrick's voice is just as iconic as Morgan Freeman.
JACCO2008@reddit
Iconic as fuck.
CountVanillula@reddit
Such majesty and gravitas.
halloweencoffeecats@reddit
knarfolled@reddit
And it did
etranger033@reddit
You dont have to respect alien cultures that are wrong and want to kill you.
Qu90@reddit
I don't think it's that easy and that's exactly the point of the episode. Let's ignore the reason why it came to the situation for a moment and just focus on the issue itself.
The federation doesn't want to impose their values onto different civilizations, at least not by force. And in my opinion, that's a very good philosophy. So you cant just ignore the rules of civilizations you meet just because they don't agree with you philosophically. That's why first contact should be very carefully planned and the risks examined in detail. Minimizing contact with the general population for the first meeting would be a good idea, for example. Also something could be said about diplomatic immunity but that depends on the situation.
The Edo didn't ask the federation to make contact, so it should be a given thing that the federation respects their customs and laws. I personally don't agree with their laws and think they are stupid, but who am I or for that matter the federation to judge this. I also don't fully agree with the prime directive but I recognize that it has a certain value for imposing your believes on others.
etranger033@reddit
Remember what Quark said. The Federation is like root beer. Insidious.
Qu90@reddit
I don't think that I ever saw Quark as someone, who's opinion or advices I would care for.
jchester47@reddit
That species was clearly not warp capable. They were far too stupid and unenlightened for that. The prime directive should have applied here and the Enterprise should never have beamed people down in the first place.
This was on Picard, unless we want to make up a convoluted excuse about how they're technically capable of warp but choose to be agrarian and dependent on a sky machine and fear.
OfBooo5@reddit
7 lays into this concept on Voyager. Something bad happens on the planet and 7's like.. yeah... tf you people expect?
ConcentratePurple202@reddit
Yeah maybe don't bring a child on your mission to the "death penalty for every crime" planet
socialcommentary2000@reddit
To be fair, you shouldn't be bringing children or high level executive staff on away missions, period, but we different in the 24th century.
rickmccombs@reddit
The people on the planet didn't tell the landing party until they were already there with Wesley. I guess the people on the planet expect people to think it's normal for any and all crimes to be punished by death.
StonedOldChiller@reddit
By then starfleet had more than a hundred years experience of meeting new species. You'd think there would be a checklist that covered things like capital punishment, with follow up questions if necessary. Nobody should be allowed to beam down to a new planet until they've had approval from Starfleet Legal Dpt first.
Qu90@reddit
I don't think first contact should be as easy as just beaming down to see what's there. It requires extensive preparation and consideration. But that wouldn't make for way different TV and could potentially be boring. Especially when you consider how similar civilizations in Star Trek are.
4thofeleven@reddit
There's even a bit in the episode where the local leader is like "Well, you could just beam up and there'd be nothing we could do, we'd just have to accept the criminal is beyond our reach" which really feels like he's trying to give Picard an out.
VocalAnus91@reddit
Really that's the lesson? I think the real lesson is don't let the doctors stupid kid join away teams.
APU3947@reddit
The prime directive = TV show logic. In reality it is a pretty patronising, pseudo-anti-imperialist, unworkable, psychopathic and selfish philosophy. If you believe at all in the concept of universal rights, where they are absent we are obliged to provide for them. Although I despise empire and the horrors of colonialism, for the displaced European peasant, the musket wielder was an immeasurably preferable sight to the man with the spear or blow dart.
CeruleanRuin@reddit
It's also a really stupid culture. Something tells me if they want a closer relationship with the Federation this is one law they'll have to abandon.
rrgail@reddit
Or the people could have simply said: “No matter what you do wrong here, the punishment is death.”
Followed by a discussion of what “wrong” means.
ScaredPresent3758@reddit
This was Planet-Karen before we had a name for Karen behaviors.
Grosaprap@reddit
This was only a problem because they made it a problem. First off we're dealing with a culture that is under the protection of the prime directive and we shouldn't have been there in the first place.
If we are just dealing with a non-federation member planet and its government, then we should have either been fully briefed on it's a culture and walls before we sent down crew for R&R.
Either way, the only real dilemma was how do we deal with yet another super powerful entity imposing its arbitrary rules on us that we only learn about after we accidentally broken them.
anziofaro@reddit
Poor Tasha. Started out as the Chief of Security. Ended up doing . . . Data entry.
Pale-Equal@reddit
To be fair, Data is the one who did the entry.
Allegedly.
Raterus_@reddit
Fully functional
Pale-Equal@reddit
Mods and OP please never delete this because it is my favorite post on this sub and I want to cherish it for years to come.
Lovat69@reddit
They're all wearing pants. beam up everyone in shirts.
Pherja@reddit
What other memes would not have been made if we just watched the show and didn’t forget entire scenes that prove us wrong?
regeya@reddit
"oh no, Beverly's kid broke a law he knew nothing about and the punishment is death?"
"...anyway... we'll all miss him."
VocalAnus91@reddit
Yep maybe the space military shouldn't be putting the doctors kid on away teams
johndhall1130@reddit
Especially if they’re exploring Planet Boner in the Freak For Life system.
VocalAnus91@reddit
On the other hand, if he got laid, maybe he wouldn't be such a nerd. Ya know, I see where Picards' mind was at after all...
johndhall1130@reddit
That’s true. Picard was a total Chad in his academy days so he probably thought Wes needed some de-sheltering.
unnecessaryaussie83@reddit
They shouldn’t be going down to the planet without knowing the laws
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
Cause and Effect. Worf said to reverse course and everyone was like, nah. Let's see what happens. Again.
AlaskaPsychonaut@reddit
To be fair worfs reactions to everything is run from it or shoot it
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
To be fair, his instincts are usually correct.
Seascorpious@reddit
I think Worfs characterization is a pretty clever narrative device. Things have to happen for plot stuff, but the writers are aware that the crew launching themselves into every anomaly they see makes them look dumb as hell. So they have Worf go 'hey why don't we use the common sense option' in every conversation so that the rest of the crew can present their 'common sense doesn't apply here' arguments, allowing the plot to go forward.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
I might agree with you if the device wasn't so overused. The problem is that, like Worf getting beat up, it gets old too quickly. They should have spread the common sense around a bit.
Kryptoniantroll@reddit
And maybe had 2 tough guys to showcase how strong the aliens beating them up are.
Odd_Cat_5820@reddit
This reminds me of the West Wing having CJ ask questions she would obviously know as a way to explain to the audience who are not so informed.
TVsFrannk@reddit
That narrative device was best used in “Hunt for Red October.” Seaman Beaumont is a fresh-out -of-Annapolis rookie who doesn’t know anything, and Jonesy explains everything to him, which conveniently educates the audience about nuclear submarines.
PangolinMandolin@reddit
I can't remember the episode sorry, but I have a distinct memory of the Enterprise D coming across some kind of strange anomaly. Worf says "recommend we raise shields, sir". And Picard is like "not yet Mr Worf". Then a moment later they're zapped by the strange thing and Picard is all "raise shields!"
And in the camera shot you can see Worf do a full eye roll over Picards shoulder which is hilarious
IMakeStuffUppp@reddit
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
Galaxy's Child. And Picard acts like raising shields is such a dumb idea, like he's just indulging Worf's paranoia. What a dickhead.
theghostofmrmxyzptlk@reddit
Worf looking outside the back of his own head is one of my favorites and Dorn masterfully performs the maneuver despite such a forehead.
Qu90@reddit
Yes, but how much exploration can you do this way? As a Starfleet officer on a ship with the main goal of exploration and discovery, that seems a bit weird.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
As a security officer on a ship with virtually no security measures, it seems a bit necessary. Taking precautions doesn't make it impossible to explore. I bet Worf would have asked about punishment if he was head of security when they went to the fuck planet.
Qu90@reddit
True, but I was always annoyed with Worfs attitude towards the ships mission. If you explore, you take risks. What stuck with me, was Worfs constant refusal to take risks, to be open and more than once was he eager to escalate a situation. That doesn't mean, that you can't take precautions. And precautions were sometimes more than necessary. But Worf always struck me as not very pleased with exploration (at least in the first few seasons)
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
Worf's attitude towards the ship's mission wasn't at issue. The ship's mission wasn't to do dumb shit. It's really hard to continue exploring if you're dead. And he never refused to take risks. He voiced his objections, got shot down, and followed orders. His displeasure was with being constantly ignored.
Qu90@reddit
Let's put it this way: Worf wasn't much of a diplomat. There is caution and there is seeing an enemy everywhere.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
And Picard wasn't much of a security officer. That wasn't his job. Worf didn't see enemies everywhere. He just did his job.
AJSLS6@reddit
In this specific case you know you have died already, reverse course and live to explore another day......
theghostofmrmxyzptlk@reddit
That's because he's about to get every last piece of his ass handed to him.
Firm_Response_846@reddit
Yeah, but they don’t know what they did before. So to them, it wasn’t “again”.
YT-Deliveries@reddit
Correct. Picard even flat out says there's no point in second guessing themselves.
Head-Ad4690@reddit
He’s wrong. The first time through the time loop there wouldn’t be any echos. They wouldn’t have second guessed themselves that time because there was nothing funny happening. That got them into trouble. Second guessing themselves in response to the echos would ensure they don’t repeat the events of the first time through the loop.
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
How does that negate my answer?
olngjhnsn@reddit
The first season is full of these types of scenarios lmao
Harbinger_Pulsar@reddit
Hey... maybe don't take the teenage boy to the sexy planet in the first place
MyParentsBurden@reddit
I just want a remake where they listen to Worffu
tauri123@reddit
I don’t understand why they even went there in the first place, hell they still were heavily invested in religion and didn’t have warp drive, seems like they shouldn’t have even been receiving alien guests formally, they shouldn’t even know aliens exist
drkittymow@reddit
TNG crew was obsessed with respecting other cultures and I feel like pretty much any other crew would have just beamed out and left those weirdos.
Mikey9124x@reddit
There was that ship in orbit stopping them
Consistent_Dog_6866@reddit
This episode was just one example of how incompetent the writers would make the characters for the sake of "plot." Tasha was the primary victim here. It was her job to review the Edo legal system. At the beginning of the episode, she says something along the lines of, "Their legal system is pretty straightforward, common sense stuff, really." Except for the part where they KILL YOU FOR STEPPING ON THE GRASS!
myfrecklesareportals@reddit
I give a lot of slack to the characters due to bad writing. This episode, the episode where Riker yells at Ensign Ro for her jewelry and when Julian fell in Love with his patient. I don't think those characters would have done anything close to that.
Weir99@reddit
Which one where Julian fell for his patient? He did that at least twice, once with the augment, the other with the girl not used to "normal" gravity
curlytoesgoblin@reddit
I watched the whole series as a kid, decided to re-watch a couple years ago and I literally could not get through the first 3 seasons. That one writer who tried to chase off Gates McFadden really was talentless hacky piece of shit, wasn't he?
KuromanKuro@reddit
It’s not “dumb” to respect other cultures. Our perspective is different than theirs. They live in a utopia and defend that in a way they see fit. Maybe they’re right. We could certainly force our way out but acting in a respectful manner to others belief is noble and neighborly. I agree that it is wrong to murder Wesley over his accident, but it is a dilemma for a thoughtful and good society to break both of our norms and disrespect their customs and laws counter to our own beliefs. However, it should definitely be part of the first discussions before landing that all infractions can result in death. Seems pretty standard when encountering new civilizations in space.
Kendota_Tanassian@reddit
This one bothers me because their hosts should really have explained things to their guests a lot better.
You have to kill somebody me who was totally ignorant of your law, because you didn't tell him, and he did it by accident?
No, you guys are the assholes, here.
"Beam everyone up that doesn't have their tits out!"
FTDisarmDynamite@reddit
Plus weren't they playing Frisbee or something right next to it? Why do something that risky in the first place, especially with a visitor? Makes no sense
Milthorn@reddit
They should really have a law about explaining the law to visitors. Then they put themselves to death for breaking the law and there isn't anybody left to execute Wesley.
JediSnoopy@reddit
"Q Who" \~
Q: "Let me join your crew!"
Picard: "Okay, let's give it a whirl and see what happens."
Sasquatch1729@reddit
I was thinking of this one for another reason:
"Hey Guinan, what should we do here? You're familiar with this area of space"
"Run. Go home now. Get out of here!"
"Let's explore!"
And then later
"Hey this crazy ship attacked us."
"Kill it. Kill it dead."
"No, let's beam over and check it out."
JediSnoopy@reddit
To Guinan's credit, she did try to warn them. She told them:
"Only that, if I were you, I'd start back now." when they asked her what she could tell them about this area of the galaxy. She also protested when they decided to visit the Borg ship. Of course, I believe your point is that she should have been far more specific and exhibited greater urgency.
Sasquatch1729@reddit
No, my point is quite the opposite. Guinan warned them throughout the episode that they should run. They didn't bother listening to the one expert they had access to at any point. Why bother asking her opinion then?
StonedOldChiller@reddit
The Caretaker has died.
OK, lets take control of the Array, blow the shit out of the Kazon and go home.
Later that afternoon Voyager is back in the Sol system getting ready to drop all the Maquis prisoners off at a penal colony.
Happy1327@reddit
If data had built in wifi he could have msgd enterprise from Fajos trophy room. Or built in phaser for that matter
StonedOldChiller@reddit
I've always taken "fully functional" to include the ability to fire a particle beam from his penis.
GodIsAPizza@reddit
Data should have trashed all the stuff in that room
Cookie_Kiki@reddit
You don't think that would have been disabled while he was incapacitated?
Happy1327@reddit
Well that makes alot of sense.
TVsFrannk@reddit
“Measure of a Man.” Starfleet doesn’t own any other officers.
4thofeleven@reddit
They even say in the episode that Maddox opposed Data's entry into the academy years before because he didn't think he was sapient, but the rest of the committee overruled him. The matter had been settled, the episode should have been over in five minutes unless Maddox had any new information that would have affected that decision.
Sasquatch1729@reddit
Looking back on it, I'm surprised they even had a committee. It should be as simple as "he did the aptitude/sentience tests, and is clearly sentient".
HomsarWasRight@reddit
Exactly. It’s never assigned a rank to any other piece of equipment. The ship can’t give anyone an order, Data can. The idea that they even had a hearing at all is deeply offensive considering it was a settled issue.
AquafreshBandit@reddit
Lt. Commander Replicator is a highly respected crew member on the USS Pinofore.
Raterus_@reddit
And the fact Data applied for Starfleet. "We accept your application, and we're going to cut you up later on!"
drillgorg@reddit
Everyone seems to forget this detail: the aliens weren't just being draconian assholes and Picard wasn't contemplating whether to let them execute Wesley or not. There was a godlike entity in orbit enforcing the draconian rules, and Picard had to plead with it to let Wesley go.
8hu5rust@reddit
I think you're thinking of another episode
drillgorg@reddit
AncientWonder54@reddit
What episode is this?
rygelicus@reddit
Using the shuttles to bring up the landing party in the original series when the transporter developed it's issues that split kirk into 2 bodies. At no point in the episode did they consider fetching them with a shuttle.
Ikacprzak@reddit
Make a dossier of do's and dont's required readings
DazzlingClassic185@reddit
What if the duty transport officer was English? Ah no, you’re still right
Slavir_Nabru@reddit
Louvois: "I've got no JAG staff yet so the captain and first officer will have to be the lawyers"
Picard: "Actually I have a warp 9 starship, we can just pop over to Earth and sort it out there. Picard to Ops, hail Starfleet Command and tell them to expect us. oh, and arrange a press conference."
Slavir_Nabru@reddit
Maddox: "Data is property"
Picard: "Well, he's not Starfleet property. If he belongs to anyone it's the Soong estate."
Maddox: "He doesn't have the right to quit."
Picard: "Then he never had the right to sign up."
Riker: "Look, I can turn him off"
Picard: *Vulcan neck pinch*
RetroGamer87@reddit
If Tasha beams up everyone with pants on, what will become of Riker?
4thofeleven@reddit
Cause and Effect - Worf suggests just changing course to avoid the time loop. Riker claims no, for all they know, changing course was what got them stuck in the first place.
No, Riker, the first time around you'd have no reason to change course so it can't possibly have been what created the time loop.
Clues - Data could have just told everyone about the aliens after they woke up, or at least once it was clear the deception wasn't working. Picard would have just been "Huh, guess they really want to be left alone, we won't bother them again, and I'll tell Starfleet to avoid that system." They'd never know the difference.
kkkan2020@reddit
TNG
ep 1 - nothing they can do about it since they're dealing with a god that controls the playing field
ep 2- do not go on the ship and do detailed scans and analysis first since it's possible biological hazard
ep 3 - give them tasha yar
ep 4 - nothing they can do as they're dealing with super beings that can drain ships powers
ep 5- riker should've paid more attention to his surroundings
ep 6 - not go so close to energy phenomenons
ep 7 - study the planets culture more including legal system /punishments
ep 8 - the issue is the ferengi captain had some kind of mind control device that is so low frequency it takes wesley to monitor the lower frequencies to detect it so yeah you'd need to wait for wesley to do his thing
ep 9 - Q episode nothing you can do about it
ep 10 - just shut off power to the holodeck if not just overload surge the holodeck to turn it off
ep 11 - don't put lore back to gether
ep 12 - leave the freighter crew to their fate
ep 13 - monitor the bynars and also have someone on duty at engineering
ep 14 - starfleet medical should have really questioned jameson is submitting medical records from years ago instead of recent medical records
ep 15 - don't stop to investigate weird signal (aldea) and continued per original heading?
ep 16 - since the colonists were hiding stuff on purpose the plot would need to run its course
ep 17 - nothing changes have to let admiral quinn and his aide do the investigation
ep 18 - restrict the klingons access to key critical system under guard
ep 19 - captain, first officer, chief medical officer, security chief, and the ops officer shouldn't go down to the investigate the drake
ep 20 - let brekka and ornara continue their drug trade
ep 21 - shoot armus from orbit
ep 22 - we'll always have paris involves weird old flame stuff between picard so skip
ep 23 - all 4 ships go to earth to investigate starfleet command
ep 24 - keep the 20th century humans in a coma
so im just doing the first season as TNG as 178 episodes but a lot of the plots could be solved fast with either using the tech or shutting off power or just ignoring this or calling someones bluff.
AquafreshBandit@reddit
Your episodes would have been much shorter.
wb6vpm@reddit
Some of these, while technically true, are only that way in hindsight, for example, the Lore episode. They had no way of knowing that Lore was disassembled because he was bad/broken (depending on how you look at it).
YT-Deliveries@reddit
Season 1 is just... well, season 1. There's not a whole lot going on in it that is worth watching again after you've gone through it once.
DEL_Star@reddit
Every episode focusing on how Ryker and Deanna aren’t together anymore.
Look at you both! Stop it! You’re in an open relationship, so just admit it and stop torturing yourselves.
SpaceBasedMasonry@reddit
Some episodes will have them walking arm in arm, Troi's head resting on Ryker's shoulders, and later in the season they each boning someone else.
DEL_Star@reddit
Exactly, and then like the next episode lwaxana will show up(my queen) and tell Deanna to put a label on it, but Deanna’s all like “nooo, we’re not together anymore, Will is focusing on his career.” But like they still go on dates and call each other imzadi.
AlwaysSaysRepost@reddit
The thing that really annoys me with this one is intention. Accidents happen. If someone is in a self-driving car and the car nicks the edge of garden, is the passenger put to death? Where is the line?
Mokou@reddit
They execute the car.
Ralphinader@reddit
TheGrimmShopKeeper@reddit
They beam up, Tasha does a quick tac check.
Tasha: “Um, where’s Riker?”
Transporter Chief: You said everyone with pants on. He appears to have lost them.
dr4wn_away@reddit
They resolved it fine on the show. We should respect other cultures, but other cultures should respect us too.
DrunkenOnzo@reddit
Tasha wakes up hung over a 11, stumbles onto the bridge, immediately put on the spot "What kind of laws they got there?" panicked and said "Oh yeah you know... normal laws, just a regular normal legal system"
DrunkenOnzo@reddit
I feel like the opposite of this happens more often than this happens. Like "Hah, replicator made a hole in that glass and it spilled. Anyway, lets have a meeting about it, shut down the replicators and run a diagnostic on all of them on the deck just in case"
dizzsouthbay@reddit
This episode lost me when the locals very earnestly say how everyone is made well aware of these rules from a young age. Yet ignorance of the law is no excuse somehow… It’s like someone knowing there’s a poisonous snake ready to attack the next person to walk through a doorway, not telling the next person of this, and then blaming that person for getting bitten. Of course, at the end of the day I blame Tasha. As head security officer she should have found something like this out BEFORE going down to the planet. Git yer head outta yer ass Yar!
StuartGotz@reddit
Enterprise, beam up their little white outfits.
GSDavisArt@reddit
"Beam up everyone with pants on." That's killing me! LOL! Thinking Yar is pondering this may just make Justice a watchable episode. Thank you.
FragrantExcitement@reddit
Riker, put your pants back on!
comesinallpackages@reddit
Outrageous Okana could’ve come clean to Picard way sooner
Gnarly-Gnu@reddit
I like that episode, and it wasn't really his secret to tell.
comesinallpackages@reddit
That’s true it wasn’t, which does explain it a bit but still when a guy is granting you refuge I could see him confiding in Picard there and tell him the goal is to get the lovebirds to come clean on their own
Gnarly-Gnu@reddit
Which he did in the end, it just took a round about way. They had to fill 48 minutes.
comesinallpackages@reddit
Sorry forgot to upvote you, cheers and good evening :)
Gnarly-Gnu@reddit
No worries, LLAP.
comesinallpackages@reddit
Indeed. I do like the episode and glad with the choices they make. Logic is often a detriment to drama.
JediSnoopy@reddit
Or, ya know, Tasha could have just asked about their legal structure and found out they execute people for breaking any law before she gave the place a glowing thumbs-up review for shore leave.
Subject-Alternative6@reddit
Nuke the site from orbit . It's the only way to be sure
Winter_cat_999392@reddit
The Enterprise computer comprises three massive FTL computing structures, two in the saucer and one in the engineering hull.
That much power and it can't scan a book of laws and flag anything that could be a hazard for the crew?
WonderWendyTheWeirdo@reddit
They had a chance to get rid of Wesley, and they blew it. Sorry, bud. Prime directive and all that. We'll send a card to your mum.
Mapuches_on_Fire@reddit
DEATH BY SNU SNU
Hexxas@reddit
The Death by Snu Snu episode first aired in February of 2001.
That means, for a period of about six months, you could ride to the top of the World Trade Center and make an epic Futurama reference about having sex with large women.
Nerje@reddit
"Captain Picard I'm in a bit of trouble. Since this is my one phone call can you ask my mother to-"
SHUT UP WESLEY
FO0TYTANG@reddit
and we'll put your uniform and shit in that box with your dead dad's stuff.
Ecstatic_Doughnut216@reddit
That's just Starfleet's policy of some intervention.
Micronto65bymay@reddit
I'm not saying they should use General Order 24 or anything. But perhaps some discussion about it wouldn't hurt their cause...
nickthedicktv@reddit
Tasha actually dropped the ball. She specifically said that she reviewed their laws to Riker. Their law is so simple (and dumb) that I have to believe she just straight up didn’t do a good job lol
assimilated_Picard@reddit
Funny graphic, but this would not have worked. Their God (the alien Overlord protecting the planet) would not have permitted the beam up.
Rocketboy1313@reddit
Yeah, Captain Kirk would not have tolerated such stupidity.
It is one thing to respect laws and customs, but if the culture has the laws and customs of "random death penalty" you can just ignore it.
In much the same way people are only bound to language in form contracts that is expected and reasonable (no human centipede clause) you are not bound to follow laws that are demonstrably stupid.
Kirk has overthrown world governments because they were toxic bullshit. Remember "A Taste of Armageddon"? Was Kirk supposed to let the Enterprise be blown up over two planets playing a competitive game of Age of Empires?
Low-Jellyfish-7318@reddit
Getting arrested for touching Grass🤣
Raterus_@reddit
"Oh you have an real imaginary friend huh?" "Yeah Counselor, check the cams"
Roll credits
RobsEvilTwin@reddit
Never liked this episode.
sqplanetarium@reddit
I was about Wil Wheaton's age when this came out and definitely found it uncomfortable.
Mapuches_on_Fire@reddit
The one where Picard asks Data at the end of the episode to look up that contract those weird aliens keep talking about.
How about doing it as soon as you hear about it?
HTired89@reddit
They barely put up protection around their nipples. I don't think fencing things off is going to be a strong point.
spiderland5150@reddit
Riker was deprived of a deep, and prolonged investigation.
Abraxas_1408@reddit