Just like with tobacco and with fossil fuels; The profiteers know the damage they are doing, but they don't care, they rather spend money and effort on denial and lies.
Decades later and this problem looks like it can't even be solved anymore, as [this stuff is by now literally in the rainwater](https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds).
DuPont: the documents span from 1961 to 2006. It doesn’t list who was CEO at the time, just that Irénée du Pont was CEO during the WWII buildup and also a financial supporter to the nazis (go figure). But he died in 1963. I would like to know who were the monsters in charge of this company from 1961-2006.
3M: don’t see much information about who were the executives during this timeframe.
There’s gotta be some way to track them down. Although, I guess fingers could always be pointed at the current executives. There’s no way that this information didn’t get passed down over time.
Considering the things corporations has done there has been far too few of them with life imprisonment without parole, death sentences, and, solitary confinement....
Obviously the courts are not working as advertised
The basics of English common law I am afraid. Perhaps we should try to figure out a system that does not give so much unaccountable power to individuals and does not require constant growth.
As if anyone is going to care what the US thinks in 50 years. Hell, in 15 for that matter, but I'm padding the shit out of it to make it more palatable.
Any other country on Earth would steal these guys' patents, steal their research, feed it to their own home grown companies, steal their bribe money, then their bank accounts, then their kidneys.
They are painting a very large crosshairs on their foreheads. All reliant on being able to bribe their way out of it. Well, bad news...
They PAY politicians, via campaign donations, so that their charter won't be pulled. Our government works for the highest bidder- and that ain't you or me.
It's called capitalism. It also requires the government to bail out the major centers of wealth concentration when they are in trouble to avoid 'collapsing the system'. Been a feature since it began.
That's why corporations donate to political campaigns. Much cheaper than taxes and regulation. Then the politicians work for them. it helps when they also contribute to think tanks that will come up with plausible sounding reasons why serving the ruling class is better for everybody.
Oh man I can’t watch it or the devil we know again. Seeing houses on there that I went by every day just hurts. People I knew were interviewed. Friends family with health impacts such as thyroid issues and cancer suffering… I fully believe I was spared because I drank so much pop growing up.
Capitalism rewards psychopaths. It is a sick game where the less you care, the more you win. And the more you care, the more you suffer. There are rare exceptions but this has been true enough for long enough that it's clear by now that nothing will change until revolution or complete collapse, with the latter being much more likely.
and just like with tobacco and fossil fuels it'll happen again and again unless and until high level execs and board members end up serving significant jail time. Or better yet end up in the Hague.
The dark triad personality types who end up in positions of power are *literally incapable* of caring about harming others, and even enjoy it. Without the potential for significant personal consequence there is zero reason to think c-level pathologies won't continue committing horrific systemic crimes.
There will be consequences. Will America rule the world forever?
And the very second it no longer does, they are merely in everyone else's way. In more ways than one.
Everyone else has rather more extreme solutions to these issues.
The dangers of AI are quite often discussed here
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/137quii/ibm_will_lay_off_thousands_of_employees_their/
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/92sxfd/what_if_ai_machines_take_most_jobs_and_there_is/
/r/ChatGPT/comments/13aeww8/i_know_this_post_will_get_zero_attention_or_down/
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/zoliif/why_you_should_keep_an_eye_on_openai/
https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/12e0zv6/society_is_absolutely_asleep_at_the_wheel_in/
Sam Altman proposed UBI to address the issue of people losing their jobs to AI. And the venture capitalists are behind them.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/30/openai-ceo-sam-altman-says-ai-could-pay-for-ubi-experts-disagree.html
Or you know profit off the solutions https://pfasproject.com/2019/07/01/dupont-now-profiting-from-water-filters-used-to-clean-drinking-water-contaminated-by-dupont-yes-you-read-that-correctly/
Gets me every time. Create the problem and the solution. Win win. Now if your solution has a little manufactured obsolescence, then you're on the right track.
You mean as long as we make billionaire dollars annually, we can do whatever we want without any real consequences? Cool! 😎
It’s funny. They sell us poison and when they actually have to do something, they use it as a marketing ploy to sell as a new and improved poison.
Just like when the federal government decided that it’s bad for farmers to inject antibiotics and hormones into their live stock, they decided to use it as a fucking marketing ploy….
But they're biggering! How bad could they possibly be? (I know this is a lame joke but I've had this song stuck in my head for three days so https://youtu.be/BpgUQYARIsw)
Vice did a good report on PFAS yesterday. Far from the best Vice ever was in 2016-18 but still a good informative report. Basically said the PFAS in US meat was 5x the EU limit on meat and that there's no limit or PFAS regulations in the US. The US already is notorious for having way less healthy food than the EU. US meat, poultry, dairy, apples and top breakfast cereals and soda's all have an EU import ban--for a variety of reasons.
Never forget that Dow (former partners of DuPont but now a spin off from DowDuPont) decided that the Union Carbide scandal in Bhopal was *worth the thousands of lives lost and affected* when they bought out Union Carbide in 2001 AFTER the Bhopal disaster.
Gotta love corporations /s
Seriously these things are used in an absolutely vast array of consumer products. They aren’t going to stop selling the stuff until they have an alternative.
We know asbestos was used in talc until at least 2018, when the J&J lawsuit happened. Did they stop? How would we know?
Wikipedia says it was found in crayons in 2000, I hadn't heard about that one.
like this will ever happen. Because it would mostly result in the current ruling class of all the western countries being implicated. Hell will freeze over before we would be allowed to hold those cretins accountable. We will do nothing but continue to watch them lead humanity off a cliff.
I wouldn't bet on it. The people in the military are also affected by this, often times with higher doses. https://www.ewg.org/interactive-maps/2020-military-pfas-sites/map/
Yeah and the US has a large track record of making sure criminals don't get punished going as far as threatening to invade the Hague if they try to bring anyone to justice. They also have a huge track record of screwing over veterans with more than just PFAS exposure.
​
I'd love to be proven wrong, but the historical track record thus far shows that the US will violently oppose anything like the nature of climate nuremburg trials. They don't even hold polluters in its own country accountable.
that we are, but if we're making bets on how something is going to behave I'm more of a mind to bet on the established trends. Again would love to be proven wrong, I just don't hold my breath counting on US military service members to do anything but continue to play their role as paid thugs for capitalists.
similar to epstein's client list. maxwell went to jail for trafficking minors to ... who? who exactly?
that shit would topple multiple heads of state / governments.
> that shit would topple multiple heads of state / governments.
Not just the heads, entire governments. Entire institutions, many of which are **specifically tasked** with policing human trafficking. Whole court systems would be compromised.
Epstein's client list being released would be equivalent to the CIA publicly confirming that Gary Webb's report on their domestic narcotics distribution was correct.
you know, if a small group of people systematically poisoned billions of people, no one would bat an eye at a capital punishment for the crime.
why is this different?
Overshoot trials.
But my best bet is that they won't be conducted by legal official entities. Some traitors will flee, some will be hanged.
Also I have no doubt a lot of ecologists will be hanged by people on the far-right side, as they'll never ever recognize that the industrials that were manipulating them through their political parties are much, much, much more to blame than anyone else.
It's really fascinating when you consider that PFOA and PFAS chemicals were so deadly, so widespread, that they have poisoned virtually everyone on the planet.
You'd think that even risking their own lives would be a reason to actually take things seriously.
A lot of Americans have this “work until you die” mentality. Bold to assume they thought this far ahead. They’re either in denial, don’t care, or have other priorities other than their life.
DuPont just doing DuPont things
fyi this is the family that runs this company: https://jonathanturley.org/2014/04/01/delaware-judge-sentences-dupont-heir-to-treatment-rather-than-prison-in-child-rape-case-because-he-would-not-fare-well-in-prison/comment-page-4/
I don’t see myself living past 60 with all exposure I’ve had to so many harmful things . A lot of people downplay certain toxins saying “it’s only a small percentage etc you’d have to have x amount to be toxic “ which is probably true but you add all the different things up , idk I just myself getting a cancer someday .
I live in Chattanooga, TN, one of the more PFA rich hydrological environments in the US. [(Reference)](https://pubs.acs.org/doi/pdf/10.1021/acs.estlett.6b00260)
When I moved here, I developed psoriasis across my scalp, neck and chest.
I moved away for several years, and it disappeared practically overnight. Ended up coming back - and so did the lesions.
A few people think I'm picky because I refuse to drink the tap water here. I've seen what it's done to the outside of the body, no way in hell I'm letting it in.
Don't forget pollution is also making us dumber and infertile
Quick examples:
https://www.calhealthreport.org/2018/01/31/teen-exposure-air-pollution-reduce-iq-levels-long-term/
https://www.bbc.com/future/article/20230327-how-pollution-is-causing-a-male-fertility-crisis
> As early as 1961, according to a company report, Teflon's Chief of Toxicology discovered that Teflon materials had "the ability to increase the size of the liver of rats at low doses," and advised that the chemicals "be handled 'with extreme care' and that 'contact with the skin should be strictly avoided.'"
According to a 1970 internal memo, DuPont-funded Haskell Laboratory found C8 (one of thousands of PFAS) to be "highly toxic when inhaled and moderately toxic when ingested." And in a 1979 private report for DuPont, Haskell labs found that dogs who were exposed to a single dose of PFOA "died two days after ingestion."
In 1980, DuPont and 3M learned that two of eight pregnant employees who had worked in C8 manufacturing gave birth to children with birth defects. The company did not publish the discovery or tell employees about it, and the following year an internal memo stated, "We know of no evidence of birth defects caused by C-8 at DuPont."
Despite these and more examples, DuPont reassured its employees in 1980 that C8 "has a lower toxicity, like table salt." Referring to reports of PFAS groundwater contamination near one of DuPont's manufacturing plants, a 1991 press release claimed, "C-8 has no known toxic or ill health effects in humans at concentration levels detected."
> As media attention to PFAS contamination increased following lawsuits in 1998 and 2002, DuPont emailed the EPA asking, "We need EPA to quickly (like first thing tomorrow) say the following: That consumer products sold under the Teflon brand are safe and to date there are no human health effects known to be caused by PFOA."
> In 2004, the EPA fined DuPont for not disclosing their findings on PFOA. The $16.45 million settlement was the largest civil penalty obtained under U.S. environmental statutes at the time. But it was still just a small fraction of DuPont's $1 billion annual revenues from PFOA and C8 in 2005.
> "As many countries pursue legal and legislative action to curb PFAS production, we hope they are aided by the timeline of evidence presented in this paper," said Woodruff. "This timeline reveals serious failures in the way the U.S. currently regulates harmful chemicals."
**Executive 1:** "Our product causes damage to the environment and people's health? How do we prevent the public finding out?"
**Executive 2:** "If we just don't tell anyone, then no one will ever figure it out!"
**Executive 1:** "A foolproof plan! Also lets offer giant grants to 'researchers' for carrying out intentionally biased 'studies' that prove our products are safe!"
**Executive 2:** "Genius! And I'll make a bunch of patriotic memes about our product, and a lot that accuse anyone questioning its safety of being a gay child molester!"
Shocked! Shocked I tell you. Never in my wildest dreams would I have thought a company would hide the harmful effects of their product in the name of profits. What has this world come to?
If you haven't seen Dark Waters and want a glimpse into how difficult it is to hold corporations accountable for destroying ecosystems, lives, and livelihoods for profit it really drives the point home. It took over a decade with incontrovertible proof to reach a settlement which was essentially a slap on the wrist to hold the Dupont corporation accountable for destroying West Virginia and essentially poisoning the world.
The same thing the oil companies did with climate change which they knew about decades ago before everyone else did. They chose to lobby and spread misinformation to hide the truth.
personally im waiting for the documents about microplastics, gonna find out that when they were making the original plastic we all have inside us today. Some analyst on the team put a notice out about microplastics. ofc it got buried
This is nothing new. The amount of pollutants we release into the environment is absurd. One example (of which I’m sure there’s many) is beluga whales in the St Lawrence River. For a long time now they’re considered toxic waste when they die. Give [this article (which apparently was from 1988!!)](https://www.nytimes.com/1988/01/12/science/pollution-is-blamed-for-killing-whales-in-st-lawrence.html#:~:text=Autopsies%20of%20dead%20belugas%20washed,to%20those%20found%20in%20cigarettes) a read. A notable quote:
> Autopsies of dead belugas washed onto the banks of the river have found very high levels of more than 30 hazardous chemical pollutants, including DDT, polychlorinated biphenyls or PCB's, the pesticide Mirex, metals such as mercury and cadmium, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons similar to those found in cigarettes and regarded as cancer-causing agents.
OH WHO COULD HAVE TOUGHT IT? /s
So it's just like with [checks notes] tobacco, refined sugars and fossil fuels, eh? Let a corporation get too big and it will also get too poweful for everyone's sake. It will have the money, not just to buy politicians and prevent regulation, but even to tamper with scientific work. The only things left to do are either to break it appart or to nationalise it.
TBH. killing everybody with slow acting poisons is actually a fair solution at this point. I just wish we could be just a tad more decent and selective and not kill as many other species as possible.
The following submission statement was provided by /u/Nethlem:
---
Just like with tobacco and with fossil fuels; The profiteers know the damage they are doing, but they don't care, they rather spend money and effort on denial and lies.
Decades later and this problem looks like it can't even be solved anymore, as [this stuff is by now literally in the rainwater](https://www.euronews.com/green/2022/08/04/rainwater-everywhere-on-earth-unsafe-to-drink-due-to-forever-chemicals-study-finds).
---
Please reply to OP's comment here: https://old.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/13xd5le/secret_industry_documents_reveal_that_makers_of/jmgh8cv/
As a final reminder, your post must include a valid submission statement within 30 min. Your post is missing a submission statement.
Submission statements must clearly explain why the linked content is collapse-related. They should contain a summary or description of the content and must be at least 150 characters in length. They must be original and not overly composed of quoted text from the source. If a statement is not added within thirty minutes of posting it will be removed.
Please message the moderators if you feel this was an error. Responses to this comment are not monitored.
143 Comments
Economy-Dimension162@reddit
cestbonn@reddit
Nethlem@reddit (OP)
nosesinroses@reddit
Nethlem@reddit (OP)
nosesinroses@reddit
weliveinacartoon@reddit
endadaroad@reddit
FireflyAdvocate@reddit
WorldsLargestAmoeba@reddit
weliveinacartoon@reddit
Taqueria_Style@reddit
McGauth925@reddit
TwilightXion@reddit
weliveinacartoon@reddit
McGauth925@reddit
FuhrerGirthWorm@reddit
deinterest@reddit
FuhrerGirthWorm@reddit
ChiefInternetSurfer@reddit
Footner@reddit
geekgentleman@reddit
OkonkwoYamCO@reddit
ridl@reddit
ridl@reddit
Uhh_JustADude@reddit
ExoticMeatDealer@reddit
MrD3a7h@reddit
sleepydamselfly@reddit
vocalfreesia@reddit
Taqueria_Style@reddit
ok_raspberry_jam@reddit
throws_ra@reddit
montroller@reddit
throws_ra@reddit
montroller@reddit
picheezy@reddit
Ipayforsex69@reddit
Jeveran@reddit
doomtherich@reddit
Visual_Athlete_42@reddit
Z3r0sama2017@reddit
Ipayforsex69@reddit
grambell789@reddit
Enthusiast9@reddit
teamsaxon@reddit
hauntedhullabaloo@reddit
StoopSign@reddit
GlitteringHighway@reddit
dnimeerf@reddit
mandrills_ass@reddit
DingerSinger2016@reddit
GoGreenD@reddit
gk2099@reddit
PM_ME_YOUR_LEFT_IRIS@reddit
3pinephrin3@reddit
TamraLinn@reddit
klobersaurus@reddit
Canyoubackupjustabit@reddit
tanglisha@reddit
gk2099@reddit
Canyoubackupjustabit@reddit
Enthusiast9@reddit
s3nsfan@reddit
Yongaia@reddit
Content_Date_318@reddit
tri_becca@reddit
dumnezero@reddit
Content_Date_318@reddit
dumnezero@reddit
Content_Date_318@reddit
dumnezero@reddit
Content_Date_318@reddit
06210311200805012006@reddit
Uhh_JustADude@reddit
klobersaurus@reddit
Grand_Dadais@reddit
Funkyduck8@reddit
daddyneckbeard@reddit
katarina-stratford@reddit
tanglisha@reddit
endadaroad@reddit
sushisection@reddit
RadioMelon@reddit
sushisection@reddit
Enthusiast9@reddit
sushisection@reddit
boomaDooma@reddit
Forecydian@reddit
BattleCougarGo@reddit
throws_ra@reddit
Canyoubackupjustabit@reddit
danknerd@reddit
McGauth925@reddit
dumnezero@reddit
endadaroad@reddit
themeatbridge@reddit
DashingDino@reddit
Uhh_JustADude@reddit
nbk_721@reddit
AsianAssDick24@reddit
McGauth925@reddit
Toast_Sapper@reddit
Toast_Sapper@reddit
MrPeAsE@reddit
dumnezero@reddit
ender23@reddit
capitalismsucksss@reddit
ApplesBananasRhinoc@reddit
disignore@reddit
dendritedysfunctions@reddit
Deguilded@reddit
downspiral1@reddit
Loreki@reddit
NoiceMango@reddit
84557099@reddit
JPGer@reddit
tanglisha@reddit
LC_001@reddit
battery_pack_man@reddit
conscsness@reddit
a_dance_with_fire@reddit
Enthusiast9@reddit
Enthusiast9@reddit
deep_blue003v@reddit
fenris71@reddit
itsgoodpain@reddit
Uhh_JustADude@reddit
06210311200805012006@reddit
jenthehenmfc@reddit
Guyote_@reddit
ttystikk@reddit
FuzzyRussianHat@reddit
Overquartz@reddit
OldPussyJuice@reddit
Flimsy-Selection-609@reddit
OldPussyJuice@reddit
Master_Income_8991@reddit
OldPussyJuice@reddit
PepperUsual@reddit
WorldsLargestAmoeba@reddit
StatementBot@reddit
StatementBot@reddit