Descent Part I would be considered the the best episode of TNG if it wasn't utterly ruined by Descent Part II
Posted by leviticusreeves@reddit | TNG | View on Reddit | 26 comments
Descent is clearly a botched attempt to recreate the magic of the Best of Both Worlds end-of-season cliffhanger, but it falls completely flat. Much like with BoBW everything is undone in the next episode, but in BoBW getting Picard back and human again happens at a great cost, everything doesn't just reset ready for the next episodes, there are far-reaching consequences that went on to define the story of the show.
If the writers had approached Descent Part II with the respect that was due to the brilliant set up in the first half, it would have blown BoBW out of the water. In this alternate reality, the last line of Part I would have been the defining quote of TNG, eclipsing even "resistance is futile". It's such a fantastic moment and I wish they'd done it justice:
Lt. Cmdr. Data: The sons of Soong have joined together; and together... we will destroy the Federation!
I remember watching Descent Part I as a kid when it first aired, and I remember thinking- there's no way back for Data after this. The episode indicates that Data has fully, willingly chosen his brother, that the Data we knew without emotions was an incomplete half-person, and that we were as naïve as him to believe that Data getting emotions would be all fun and jokes. And even if Data did somehow get returned to his previous state, or it turned out that Lore was controlling him, it seemed ridiculous to think that he could somehow just resume his post and his tenuous grasp on legal personhood. From Starfleet's perspective this android has been hacked, either made to malfunction or had a malfunction fixed, and then has hijacked the flagship, imprisoned Starfleet officers, and plotted the downfall of the Federation. I did not think that all this could just be swept under the rug. It would be like if Ash had survived in Alien and Ripley just kind of forgave him and went back to their old working relationship and never mentioned it again.
And more than that, how cool is the concept was of having the Brothers Soong become the big bads of the remainder of the show? It would have been crushing, heartbreaking, and what devastating enemies they could have been. I wanted to see their plot to bring down the Federation, I wanted to understand their motives and what they wanted to build in its place, and most of all I wanted to see two super-intelligent AIs build some amazing convoluted Rube-Goldberg type plan and for the Enterprise crew to have to somehow try to outwit them. Obviously I would have liked Data to return eventually, but not in such a clean and easy way.
And even if Data had to return to normal in the next episode, he should have lost his rank, or at the very least there should have been a court martial. Bruce Maddox should have been back. It should have been a whole big thing. Given the scrutiny on Data, it seems insane that Starfleet would just let this drop. Such a missed opportunity.
MrRogerSmith@reddit
I was disappointed by what the episodes suggest about Data's character: that all of the goodness Data exhibits over the course of the series really is just programming, because as soon as he gets emotions he turns against all of his friends. Yes, they are negative emotions but Lore shouldn't be able to manipulate him so easily. Like Troi tells him, it's how we react to those negative emotions that defines our character. I would have liked the episode much better if Data resolved his own predicament by learning to control the negativity and acting on his own "human" ethical impulses, instead of having to wait for his shipmates to reactivate his ethical programming.
caclexis@reddit
I think Data being court-martialed over it would have been really unfair actually. He was being manipulated/controlled by his brother and everyone knew that. Geordi was once brainwashed by the Romulans and tried to kill a Klingon (aka a Federation ally) because of it. He wasn’t court-martialed because again, everyone realized that it was outside of his control. The same was true with Data. It would have been wrong to treat Data differently from Geordi because he was an android.
Deadhead-Dan1975@reddit
Hah, lifelong Star Wars fan here who recently started watching Trek at age 48. I’m learning there’s never been any accountability ever for the TNG crew, so why start in season 7?? The lack of operational security on that ship is just staggering.
pentarou@reddit
Didn’t Data go rogue a bunch of other times? At least once with those xenophobic aliens who erased the crew’s memory, and again to respond to Soong’s beacon. He should have been in the brig way before Descent.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
Weird take. I mean, they're both terrible episodes but at least Descent Pt 2 takes some risks.
astarothdark@reddit
Why do people keep saying "jumping the shark" when tng sent the ship to the sun.
Malnurtured_Snay@reddit
As far as I know there are no sharks in space.
There might be space sharks, though.
Also, I don't think the Enterprise can jump...
astarothdark@reddit
The idea of Lore or even Data getting a borg army was AMAZING, i really wanted to see Lore using the weakened free borgs as a mean to get a hold on the regular borg. I always hated the borg queen but after watching part I i said "hey maybe the idea of the queen/king is not bad if its well implemented". But OMFG was part II bad, the way they raise the stakes is just pathetic (they wont survive the surgery and the whole "you gotta kill picard"). And also Data can tank A LOT of damage and keep going, and lore gets one shot and he is basically dead?
Also Data trying to destroy the chip was dumb as hell, he is the most advanced computer, he can create virus to destroy the borg ffs. And he didnt understand that Lore was controling him and his "emotions" were not to blame?
Bynar010@reddit
Descent is awful, let's send the entire crew down to a planet including the entire command structure to search for one person. The writing is just terrible, it's bottom of the pile of every 2 partner, including birthright.
QuarterMaestro@reddit
I laughed incredulously when Picard sent the entire command staff down to the planet, including himself, and left the doctor in charge of the ship. I mean come on.
Aria-chan@reddit
Worse still, she sent it into the sun first chance she got lol. Can you imagine the conversation afterwards?
Picard: I gave you command of the ship for ONE DAY and you immediately sent it hurtling into the nearest star?!
Crusher: well why did they call it a 'starship' then if it can't handle sailing on one!
YanisMonkeys@reddit
Wait, what do people say is wrong with Birthright?
YetAgain67@reddit
Eh. I like it.
Datamat0410@reddit
I liked Descent, although Part 2 is definitely the weaker episode. It feels like an episode (part 2) spinning wheels to get to the end with little thought or heart within it all. Lore was a great villain and with better writing it could have been a superb two parter. As it is, it’s a fairly entertaining episode, though uneven and especially so in Part 2.
lcarsadmin@reddit
The individualization of the borg should have been of greater consequence. You know whats worse than an organized hive mind? A disorganized horde sweeping the quadrant
lcarsadmin@reddit
Plus its a great metaphor for the perils of American interventionism
TEG24601@reddit
I think you have that backwards. Descent II would be the best episode of TNG, if it wasn't for how botched and lazy Descent I was.
sulaymanf@reddit
It was a great cliffhanger. Destroy the federation with Lore and Borg!? Picard and the officers captured? Oh man this will be a long summer.
But then immediately walked back when Lore says that his new collective will make everyone leave the federation for his new group. That was a letdown.
m7_E5-s--5U@reddit
Well, Lore was trying to turn everyone into Androids, so a devastating war really wasn't the ideal method of accomplishing that.
jasonheartsreddit@reddit
Descent proved that Data should have been disassembled permanently right along side Lore. A single being that is that much of a threat to the Federation cannot be allowed to roam free on the flagship of the Federation, or anywhere else. Giving Data its freedom is like saying, "it's cool, guys. The 50 billion megaton atomic bomb is on our side!"
Dismantling Data at the end of Descent II and releasing Spiner from the show would have made Descent the best two parter ever.
Ciserus@reddit
I think part 1 is still a pretty middling episode, but you're right that it could have been elevated by a much better part 2.
I'm just here to complain about part 2.
In no particular order:
The "we will destroy the Federation!" cliffhanger is a total cheat. It turns out they have no plan whatsoever to destroy the Federation, nor any reason to, so I guess Data was just trying to sound cool when he said that.
Lore's motives are just sort of... missing. Why is he doing any of this? In part 1 it seems it's all part of a desperate desire to reunite with / control his brother, but once he has Data he doesn't particularly care about him. He is willing to off Data at the first inconvenience, so why go to all this effort and bring the ire of the entire Federation down on himself?
Evil Data is a huge waste of potential. As you alluded to, there are some genuinely unsettling aspects to Data that would make him a terrifying villain if he ever turned bad. The episodes "The Most Toys" and "Brothers" gave us glimpses of this. In this episode, Evil Data is just another cartoon supervillain like Lore. It makes no sense that he would suddenly enjoy torturing his friends, but plenty of sense that he would simply not care about hurting them in pursuit of some higher goal. Which is a much scarier prospect.
I think this is one of Brent Spiner's more disappointing performances. He plays Evil Data almost identically to Lore. I think a cold, indifferent, calculating Data would have been much more interesting than Spiner's usual "smirking villain" persona.
optimusprime82@reddit
No, it wouldn't.
Best_Pants@reddit
Not exactly. The scene with Data and the Borg prisoner provides a reason to believe Data is being manipulated, because we see a change in Data's behavior when the borg prisoner surreptitiously activates a device on his wrist.
I'd argue that Star Fleet is no stranger to seeing its personnel and starship computers suffer mind control or similar effects in the field, and ship Captains are allowed broad discretion in resolving such matters. Keep in mind there had been multiple instances where Data saved the Enterprise by being the only crew member not mind-controlled/incapacitated.
TheHYPO@reddit
I remember watching Descent when it first aired and I will say that I agree with parts of your comments and disagreed with other parts.
The cold open of Descent Part 1 (D1) was great - very intense and thrilling. However, I felt that Descent started to get undermined as a great episode even within D1.
BOBW 1 focused almost entirely on the Borg threat, the crew preparation, the attempts to stop the Borg as they rolled towards Earth in a countdown-clock threat situation. I will admit there was a minor character element of Riker vs. Shelby and Riker's refusal to accept a command, but that was somewhat organic and related to the Borg threat, because his command would have put him in charge of a ship that was destroyed at Wolf 369, and Shelby is a borg expert who is ostensibly onboard for that reason - it just happens that the Admiral wants Picard to convince Riker to accept a command and take Shelby as the new XO for the Enterprise. It also doesn't take up a whole lot of the episode's real estate. It's more underlying tension during plot-related scenes.
The focus on Data's emotions comes off as less organic and integrated into the plot - Data's emotion chip is, by definition, artificial, and so his focus on suddenly feeling anger feels like a plot element invented for the sake of plot as compared to Riker and Shelby's credible feelings and reactions to a believable promotion opportunity.
it feels like D1 quickly becomes less about the borg, the imminent threat, and the tension of the Federation itself being destroyed, and more about Data feeling emotions.
The borg themselves showing sympathy for a fallen borg comrade is interesting, but also undermines the borg as an unstoppable emotionless assimilation squad which is what made BOBW so exciting.
Then we get a scene where Data discusses emotions with Troi and LaForge where in season 3 we might get some very complex and introspective dialogue, but in season 6, we get a very sesame-street feeling exchange right down to a "for example" - sometimes that just doesn't feel like natural spoken dialogue to me:
Then when pressed, Data realizes that not only did he feel anger a borg, he also felt "pleasure" at killing one. Again, this could have played into a much darker tone for the episode like BOBW or First Contact, but it ultimately doesn't pay off in terms of the darkness. Perhaps the crew should have had a discussion about whether Data might be dangerous if he is feeling pleasure at killing or something like that. Maybe there should be some foreboding signs that Data might be a bit unstable.
This is followed by Data testing out his emotions by emotionlessly throwing a borg drone against the wall repeatedly in the holodeck doesn't take itself seriously enough and comes off as a bit of a farce.
We also get a scene where we have a red alert based on a distress call that turns out to be a colony spooked by a Ferengi ship - "third time today" - it again undercuts the tension in the episode and makes it feel more like a mid-season procedural and less like an event-level cliffhanger.
When we get Data confronting Crosis in the brig, I can't put my finger on it, but the exchange just doesn't have the "sinister" factor that Data's discussions with the Queen have in First Contact - there is no atmosphere in the room in D1 (also, if I'm not mistaken, there's still security officers literally in the room listening to the exchange who apparently don't intervene or report the conversation to anyone... it again undercuts the realism of the exchange).
Finally, we don't get really great faceoffs against the borg where we see that our crew is in serious peril - it is more of a cat and mouse pursuit with the borg running into their subspace conduits - this again makes them feel like of a threatening (BOBW) and more of a frustrating.
I did like the idea that the ramifications of Hugh in "I Borg" could actually be addressed, and I'm sure there was a way to make those ramifications result in an even scarier Borg such that 30 years later we might still be having conversations (akin to Tuvix or Pale Moonlight) about whether Picard did the right thing in that episode or the wrong thing. But at least in D1, we don't see the Borg necessarily become an even bigger threat than they were before. So I don't think it pays off even in D1. They try to give this payoff with Admiral Necheyev, but I don't think it really lands like it would if there was a more dire threat.
The payoff that Lore has seemingly teamed up with the Borg is admittedly a great cliffhanger moment... but the rest of D1 just doesn't quite live up to BOBW 1.
Of course, you're right that D2 certainly took what was still a reasonably entertaining D1 (not epic, but entertaining) and didn't pay it off terribly well, which happens with 80% of two-parters - but yeah, the Picard/La Forge/Troi in prison scenes are not overly effective to me. It pales in comparison to Garak, Worf and Bashir in Dominion prison in DS9 which was executed far better. The whole Beverly in command sequence feels like a rehash of Laforge in command in Arsenal of Freedom (right down to the officer in charge encouraging an unassured crew member, and dealing with another crew member who is overly arrogant and critical), which was fine for season 1, but it too simplistic and rudimentary for season 7.
And while the groundwork was laid in D1, D2 really confirmed that this new collective was a shadow of the old borg and barely keeping themselves together. Hardly a megathreat like the BOBW borg.
houtex727@reddit
Data was being 'drugged'. There's no other way about this. He was being drugged and manipulated, even tortured by Lore to do Lore's bidding. It's in the episode, Lore opens his fingernail up, adjusts something, gives Data a 'kick in the nuts' in effect for even questioning Lore's demands, withdrawing something that is making Data actually able to operate, and without, he would ball up in pain/discomfort. The device is also filling Data with rage and hate, counter to his normal self.
That's called coercion, and is a defensible thing in courts. What the coercion is is immaterial, the fact it was being done is the thing. Data would get perhaps a light sentence, perhaps nothing at all.
And at the end, he absolutely did not choose his brother, he stopped Lore, who was subsequently dismantled, and that was literally the last we see of Lore until Picard.
That action, and Lore's manipulation of him, saved him from being drummed out of Starfleet for sure, and/or pursued by many to 'stop him before he does something worse' or whatever mobs like to do for such reasons. :|
I'm sure I'm wrong, but that's what I got.
leviticusreeves@reddit (OP)
Yeah that's what I got too, but unless I'm misremembering all of that is clarified in the second episode. I just think the potential implications of the first episode are better than how it actually panned out.