If Intel's Lunar Lake is going to have RAM built in ¿That means no LPCAMM 2 on new intel laptops?

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sortofhappyish@reddit

Memory fails more often than CPU.

So these packaged Intel devices will have a higher fail rate on average.

Taking bets the CPU is ALSO soldered to the laptop motherboard, so CPU failure = completely dead system.

Now add in a few other components, and you can ensure a CPU failure means NONE of the other components like the screen or keyboard or storage will work for parts :(

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Girombafa@reddit

AMD was actually the first one to use it, with HBM. do you guys remember it? They always liked the idea.

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Andreid4Reddit@reddit (OP)

HBM was for GPUs, not for CPUs, it is totally different because there is a real and very noticeable difference between a gpu with conventional socket memory and a gpu with soldered gddr5 or HBM

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Girombafa@reddit

Most notebooks uses soldered ram already.

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karatekid430@reddit

Hehe tell me you speak Spanish without telling me. I am learning it.

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imaginary_num6er@reddit

It means if one wants more than 12GB VRAM on a laptop, you have to pay for integrate RAM or a 4090 tier GPU

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

Lunar Lake will be the minority of laptop chips. Most will be MTL refresh and Arrowlake, which could support CAMM2

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Quatro_Leches@reddit

Intel product segmentation is so confusing and bs lol

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

LNL and ARL are fundamentally different chips. LNL is purpose designed to be as efficient as possible and operate in the sub 20W space.

ARL is more conventional and designed to scale from 20W up to over 100W depending on the chip.

It's not just product segmentation - they are fundamentally different chips.

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Intel's direction confuses me - is LNL a premium, once-off experiment by Intel to demonstrate x86's viability in the efficiency department against ARM? Because I can't imagine this CPU+RAM package will be cheap and may only be used in premium form factors e.g. XPS 13. The rest will probably make do with the (presumably) cheaper ARL-U.

So what happens after LNL then? I used to think that the two lines would reconverge into a single Panther Lake. But having seen Clevo's linked roadmap, it seems like LNL has no direct upgrade path.

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the_dude_that_faps@reddit

In that screenshot you can see LNL targeting 17W and arrow lake u targeting 15W. My guess is that since lunar lake is a one-off due to using TSMC, intel is looking to return to its own fabs for the volume and bring the tech there.

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dogsryummy1@reddit

To my knowledge Lunar Lake comes in several TDP ranges, there's an 8W fanless, then 17-30W. So there's quite a overlap with Arrow Lake which runs the full gamut from 15-55W.

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996forever@reddit

LNL should operate in the historically 15-45w range of laptops. There are laptops announced with LNL and paired with mid-high end dGPUs. Just not desktop replacement type laptops.

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soggybiscuit93@reddit

LNL is operating in the 9W - 28W range (including memory on package brings that to 11W - 30W range)

There are laptops announced with LNL and paired with mid-high end dGPUs.

Which laptops? LNL has limited PCI-E lanes compared to standard H series parts

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996forever@reddit

I might have been mistaken, I thought the MSI Stealth 18 came with Lunar, but turns out they went with Meteor instead. And used Ryzen for the 16 inch models

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CeleryApple@reddit

Lunar Lake are iPad chips if that makes more sense.

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Andreid4Reddit@reddit (OP)

I hope for LPCAMM2 and CAMM2 to become the new standard across all new laptops

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Vince789@reddit

Intel's Lunar Lake has on-package RAM (built-in RAM like Apple's M Series)

AMD's Kraken, Strix Point & Strix Halo and Qualconn's X Elite/Plus support LPDDR5X. It's up to the OEM to decide if they want to use soldered RAM or LPCAMM2 (except I think LPCAMM2 won't have the bus width to support Strix Halo)

Intel's Arrow Lake-U/H support LPDDR5X / DDR5. It's up to the OEM to decide if they want to use soldered RAM or LPCAMM2 / SO-DIMM or CAMM2

AMD's Fire Range & Intel's Arrow Lake-HX support DDR5. It's up to the OEM to decide if they want to use soldered RAM or SO-DIMM or CAMM2

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Tuna-Fish2@reddit

(except I think LPCAMM2 won't have the bus width to support Strix Halo)

A single LPDDR5X CAMM2 is 128-bit, you could build a board that supports Strix Halo by using two, probably only possible by having the SOC between two sticks. But this makes system design more than a bit complicated and expensive, there are lots of other things that need to fit on the board that then get hard to place.

The Strix Halo test boards that have been spotted being shipped around all have soldered ram, and I think this trend will continue for most of the consumer boards. I hope someone does end up making a version with CAMM2, it should make for a really nice inference laptop.

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Vollgaser@reddit

Strix point and probably Kraken support ddr5. It is litterally listed on the product specs.

https://www.amd.com/de/products/processors/laptop/ryzen/300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.html

"4x2R DDR5-5600, LPDDR5x-7500"

Strix Halo probably only supports lpddr though.

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gnocchicotti@reddit

Hardware Canucks posted a video at the start of Computex (about Zenbook S 16 I think) and mentioned that Strix Point only supports LPDDR5X. I doubt they just pulled that out of their ass, an AMD person probably told them on the record.

Maybe the product page specs are wrong - wouldn't be the first time. Maybe HC's contact was wrong.

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Verite_Rendition@reddit

The socket is unchanged from Phoenix (FP8), so HC's contact is likely wrong. It happens.

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kyralfie@reddit

Strix Point is claimed to support DDR5 per AMD specs.

https://www.amd.com/en/products/processors/laptop/ryzen/300-series/amd-ryzen-ai-9-hx-370.html

System Memory Type DDR5 (FP8) , LPDDR5X (FP8)

Max Memory Speed 4x2RDDR5-5600, LPDDR5x-7500

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whitelynx22@reddit

I agree with all of the above.

There seems to be a lot of fear and speculation about the future having only soldered or on package RAM. While I don't know what the future holds, at this point in time, this is just yet another fad that - for a variety of reasons - some are pushing and experimenting with. After all the majority of users won't know the difference!

That being said, I'd be surprised if 20 years from now we won't have RAM modules. Of course, in some form factors (e.g. tablets) that's simply not practical. But I still have a "big tower" so there's that.

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Substance___P@reddit

I think the desktop form factor has stood the test of time because of its modularity. Even if laptops and mobile move to soldered or on package solutions for RAM, desktop will still always be there for the super users or enthusiasts who need workstation power or even budget folks who want to tinker with lower spec hardware.

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Vince789@reddit

True, it will be interesting to see if Intel's Lunar Lake will be a one-off like Lakefield, or if the V line will be released every couple years

My only concern would be if LPCAMM2 can handle 256b or higher

Is using multiple LPCAMM2 possible? But even if it is it becomes huge PCB area vs on-package RAM for say 384b and 512b

It will be very interesting to see how AMD's Strix Halo comes configured in terms of RAM. And what Qualcomm does for their Gen2, will they continue with off-package RAM or move to on-package RAM?

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floydhwung@reddit

What? So CAMM2 isn’t going to “change everything”?

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Redditisunnecessary@reddit

There are rumours of zen6 based laptop processor also using on-SOC RAM because NPU need the high bandwidth. I think SOC in general benifit with Ram being as close as possible because there are so many modules together they can take advantage of integrated RAM

I also wished that lpcamm2 would be the solution to ultra books, thought finally i could afford 32gb ultra books but it does seem world going that way

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MrGunny94@reddit

Lunar Lake with built in RAM will be a single generation focused on Ultrabooks.

Gaming laptops and ‘H/Ultra’ CPUs will still use regular RAM

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firstmaxpower@reddit

Different segments. Higher power laptops in larger form factors will likely all adopt the LPCAMM standard.

Ultrabooks that strive for lightest and thinnest while lasting the longest on battery will use on SOC memory.

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Andreid4Reddit@reddit (OP)

I thought LPCAMM2 was going to be for Ultrabooks and CAMM2 for larger form factor laptops

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Zednot123@reddit

Ultrabooks is a pretty large range of sizes and power targets in itself.

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Affectionate-Memory4@reddit

We haven't seen much about Arrow Lake laptops yet. Those won't get the same on-package treatment (as far as we know) so it'll either have to be soldered or some form of socketed ram.

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Andreid4Reddit@reddit (OP)

Socketed RAM would be a win for upgradeable laptops